{"error":false,"id":["149251"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149251,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149251","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T11:38:42+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T11:57:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:18:50","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddda90daf14cec47697f012038cf3c9e62ff8ba9b0039caa7a6b1730338a11065015ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:38:42 - 11:57:32","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":808,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（11時38分）謝謝主席，請食藥署署長。"],["主席：請食藥署署長。"],["吳署長秀梅：委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：署長好。署長所管理的業務裡面，最核心的就是食品跟藥品；我們都知道整個國家的管理制度，也就是你們的管理制度，不管是食品的安全，還是藥品的安全，最核心的前提就是業者自律這個前提。顯然我們的政府在經過多年食安事件以後也要求要追溯追蹤系統，但是根據監察院2020年的報告指出，按照食品衛生管理法規定所申請登錄的業者有47萬5,736家次，但是你們強力要求要建立這個追溯追蹤系統、參加食品雲的家數只有1萬家，47萬跟1萬的比例是2%，在這種狀況裡面，事實上，你們今天的報告也講得很好聽。你們今天的書面報告說：食藥署的風險預警、預判功能是有預判的，所以你們要強化風險預警分析，導入數據分析輔助風險偵測，然後針對高違規、高關注、高風險的產品進行預判。你們今天還講到要強化風險預警、預判功能，結果不僅沒有預警、預判，連登錄都沒有，然後強制要登錄追溯追蹤的只有2%業者。在這裡，消費者一路走來始終是發生食安事件以後，只能說「歹勢」、「含致癌物質的藥品我已經吞一大堆了！」、「含致癌物質的添加物我已經吃下去一大堆了！」。那我今天就問你最核心的一件事，請問：辣椒粉輸入有沒有在食品追溯追蹤系統的登錄體系裡面？有沒有強制規定要登錄？"],["吳署長秀梅：報告委員。因為這個業者如果是有工廠登記的……"],["林委員淑芬：不是這個業者，我在講辣椒粉這個品項！"],["吳署長秀梅：OK，有。"],["林委員淑芬：針對這次出事的辣椒粉，請問是依據你們哪一項規定參加登錄？"],["吳署長秀梅：我們的規定有資本額3,000萬元以上，然後要有工廠登記。"],["林委員淑芬：我知道啦！那請問他們有沒有嘛！現在出事的有沒有參加食品登錄？有追溯系統嗎？有沒有上游流向、從哪裡進來？有下游流向、知道跑到哪裡嗎？"],["吳署長秀梅：保欣公司必須執行追溯追蹤。"],["林委員淑芬：那它有沒有執行？我在問你，它是根據什麼規定要執行？在旁邊的技正、組長去旁邊，我問你們署長，這是核心業務，你們署長卻還要你在旁邊教她！"],["吳署長秀梅：有，保欣公司有執行。"],["林委員淑芬：你不要在這裡騙委員！難怪大家都說國會要有聽證制度。","應建立食品追蹤追溯系統的食品業者有幾類、有幾項？"],["吳署長秀梅：我們這邊一共有25類。"],["林委員淑芬：25類？那它是第幾類？你說給我聽聽看。"],["吳署長秀梅：它屬於輸入業者。"],["林委員淑芬：不是啦！第幾個序號、第幾類？它恐怕是沒有登錄、沒有被要求、被強硬規定要建立食品追蹤、追溯系統的吧！監察院講了47萬家，而你們強硬要求規定的都以3,000萬元規模以上的居多；當然也有小型的，比如說高風險的也要。但是辣椒粉根本就不在25類裡面，我想不通你怎麼預判風險？你從哪裡可以溯源？你當然沒有辦法溯源，也不知道流向啊！你現在查到的都是海關比對資料勾稽出來的吧？你就回答我。你們在這裡都說謊！"],["吳署長秀梅：報告委員，這裡有第23類農產品，它是屬於農產植物、菇類、還有藻類製品輸入業者這一類。"],["林委員淑芬：好。那我現在就再問你，第23類是植物製品、菇類、藻類，那它是菇類還是藻類製品？"],["吳署長秀梅：它是農產植物。"],["林委員淑芬：好。我再問你，為什麼你們要這樣自己擠牙膏、慢慢擠、擠這麼久？從1月8日檢舉人檢舉、檢舉人是濟生，他們的SGS檢驗檢出含有蘇丹紅嘛！然後雲林縣政府去查廠，1月22日再去後市場買產品送到衛福部。關於送到衛福部，今天包括劉建國委員也講，就算不要講1月8日，至少確認的時間是1月30日，你們卻從1月30日一直拖，拖到2月20日才暫停21家近年曾經進口不合格、輸入不合格中國辣椒粉的業者輸入3個月。","你在今天的報告提到，大家才發現去年年中、5月22日，我的辦公室跟你們要了資料，是你們FDA提供的資料，顯示這5年裡面對中國辣椒粉抽驗的比例、不合格的批數，根據你們提供的資料，去年抽驗了27%的比例，不合格的批數是22批，那不合格比例是多高？"],["吳署長秀梅：其中屬於蘇丹紅的有7批。"],["林委員淑芬：我現在問你的是不合格比例。"],["吳署長秀梅：去年中國來的是330批。"],["林委員淑芬：好，我現在問你，光是你給我們的22批不合格產品，是指含蘇丹紅還是所有含農業的？"],["吳署長秀梅：含蘇丹紅的有7批，含農藥的有16批。"],["林委員淑芬：好，那我現在要跟你講的這件事情是食安辦的資料跟你們根本對不起來，光是5月22日不合格的有3批，8月15日─去年喔！不合格的有6批，9月13日不合格的有7批，12月11日不合格的是13批，去年在半年內就超過29批、加起來超過29批。"],["吳署長秀梅：因為這是累計的，有些是含有農藥，所以如果以去年來講……"],["林委員淑芬：我現在就是在講全部不合格批次啊！你給我們的數字是22批，但我們再比對食安辦的資料，光是半年內─去年5月22日到12月21日就有29批，所以你們提供給我們的數據連你們自己也兜不起來。","我還要講，你們從5月22日之前就發現很多產品不合格，所以才把抽驗比例提高到20%。在5月之前，你們就發現很多不合格情況，所以在5月就提高到20%，但驗出來之後又發現非常多不合格情形，所以你們在去年8月又把抽驗比例提到高到30%。抽驗了又發現還是有很多不合格，到了9月再把抽驗比例提高到50%，接著又發現很多不合格產品，才會到了12月乾脆因為中國來的產品邊境不合格情況這麼多，提高抽驗比例到100%。根據相關法規─食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法來講，事實上就是非常、非常多，每次抽驗都不合格，再抽驗又不合格，才會變成100%抽驗。","那我現在問你抽驗之後的做法。你們在邊境抽驗出這麼多不合格產品，不合格產品抽驗到了，你們有沒有到後市場繼續抽驗？"],["吳署長秀梅：有。"],["林委員淑芬：你們在源頭邊境抽驗這麼高比例、這麼多批都不合格、發現中國來的辣椒粉摻了蘇丹紅或其他農藥超標這麼嚴重，那有沒有做後市場監測、繼續把關？"],["吳署長秀梅：有，我們如果在邊境查到不合格的產品，就會把相關資訊回饋到後市場，地方政府就會查相關產品。"],["林委員淑芬：到底查了多少次、保留哪些紀錄？"],["吳署長秀梅：我們後來回饋到地方政府這邊的，在今年度1月至2月20日抽了60……"],["林委員淑芬：好，不要再講！我聽不下去！因為從去年年初就一直驗不及格、驗不及格，但你們今年才處理。去年一整年，你們都沒有後市場抽驗，而今年你又說1到2月交給地方政府，不要再講了！今年1月8日檢舉人就向地方政府檢舉了，1月8日這個人是檢舉人，不是邊境查驗、再由FDA或地方政府主動到後市場查驗產品抽驗，都不是！整個案件也不是你們溯源追蹤系統查出來的，都不是！這是檢舉人起的頭！你們明明都知道源頭把關的邊境檢出這麼多不合格，可是還是怠忽職責、不願意積極辦理，仍然放任。","我要講第2張。我跟你們要了這5年裡面邊境查驗違反規定者，就整理了一些，你看這個名單，今天出事的過去都出過事了啦！所以你自己看看，保欣108年也有，還有今天提到的津棧─就是供應海底撈的津棧、佳廣，我告訴大家，不管它叫津棧、佳廣、釜山還是海順，統統都是同一家人、同一家族，登記在同一家公司，其中吳克敏還有兩家，所以他們都知道邊境查驗不合格沒關係，用其他公司再進口；這一家有問題，再用別的公司進口。你看，都是同一批人，六豐生物、綠風實業看起來好像不是，但在工商登記裡，他們都互為股東，都有公司相通。還有天崧企業，產品都檢出蘇丹紅色素。","我再講一件。我發現這家韓廣─我看了它的公司登記後，認為它進口的不只有中國辣椒。他們檢出含有蘇丹紅色素的、農藥超標的產品進口來源是哪一國？去年而已啊！他們就被檢出3批啊！是中國進口的嗎？是不是？它本來是一家韓國小吃店，後來成立另外兩家公司，是名叫「首爾」什麼的、還有「韓」什麼的公司。所以我今天要跟你講，從去年─其實也不是說去年，歷年來大家都知道辣椒和辣椒粉本來就是高風險的，而你們也查出來了，邊境、源頭都查出來了，可是你們從來不做後市場把關，沒有！而且後市場把關本來就很難了，我必須講為什麼很難。後市場把關為什麼難呢？因為原料摻入添加物，加工以後變成產品，會一直、不斷稀釋，所以在源頭把關、查出不合格、檢出違規、違法，這是比較容易的，到後市場要檢出不合格其實是比較困難的。可是這次事件是1月22日雲林縣政府查廠時發現原料有問題，還去後市場買，買來交給食藥署驗，結果這個後市場抽驗的產品仍然有蘇丹紅、還驗得出來，你就知道含量多麼地高、多麼嚴重！我們都知道要追溯、追蹤，你們當然也講「我們會增加預警、預判」，但你們連發現了都不繼續做。","我今天是在跟你講，你們現在禁止了21家中國食品輸出商，對不對？是不是？"],["吳署長秀梅：對。"],["林委員淑芬：那我問你，佳廣跟津棧輸入來源是中國大陸哪一家公司？"],["吳署長秀梅：「Kevin Shipping」。"],["林委員淑芬：「Kevin Shipping」？OK。但我們辦公室使用了中國的國家企業信用信息系統，發現沒有這一家公司。然後用Google查詢，你知道查到什麼公司嗎？針對「Kevin Shipping」，可以查到它是一家什麼公司嗎？我就問你，人家登錄了、也出事了，社會案件都爆發得這麼嚴重了，你也禁止了21家中國廠商進口、禁止「Kevin Shipping」進來了，可是我現在要問你有沒有這家公司？中國有沒有這家公司啊？為什麼一個食品出口商名字會叫「Shipping」、「Ship」？我在Google查到它是一家香港的船務公司啊！中文名字叫嘉運船務有限公司。你們進口的是一家不曉得在做什麼、也不知道是否真的有的公司，你們進了一家虛無縹緲的公司，它還以另一個名稱進來，所以我才講這樣怎麼對呢？你們總是讓我們吃下去以後再告訴我們這個有問題、在吃下去很多以後告訴我們，你們的風險預警系統根本就失靈！","然後，你看這些廠商，每年不斷、反覆違規，今年是這一家，明年是那一家，結果都是同一家族，還不斷違法。上有政策，下有對策，更何況你們上面根本沒在查。就算查到了也就這樣，再換一家公司；雖然是不同名稱的臺灣進口商，但負責人屬於同一家或同一家族。他們會換名字啊！一年裡面，「海順」公司不會一直用「海順」，下一批用「釜山」、再用「津棧」、再來用「佳廣」，輪流使用不同名稱，分散被查驗的機率和風險。你今天在這裡說現在沒有辦法一次告訴我們，但它明明就有這麼高的風險，而且屢屢被查出，都被查到你們還要100%查驗了，結果你們卻對後市場放任不管。徒法不足以自行啦！"],["吳署長秀梅：對於這種不該存在於食品當中的物質，我們會再百分之百逐批檢驗，也會在評估之後立刻停止這些產品的輸入。"],["林委員淑芬：你這個位子已經當幾年了啦？未來、未來，我們有食品雲幾年了，你還講未來、以後不會！你剛才回答上一位委員時講到如果查到就下架，如果沒查到呢？我們繼續吞下肚嗎？管理不是這樣。我們知道你們力有未逮，食品、藥品都靠業者自律，可是當業者不自律這麼久，我們也一直吞下肚、吞那麼久了，只能自求多福嗎？在這種狀況下，你們講預警、預判，但你們哪一次成功預警、預判？連數據都沒有、連流向都沒有，連這種那麼公開的、紙上公司這麼多，輪流進口的、同一個家族的、然後每年都違規的，後市場都放任不管，還要靠檢舉案！整個事件是檢舉案耶！與10年前沒有食品雲制度下的食安事件相比，還是回到原點，沒有更進步！所以我們今天在這裡提到監察院講的食品業者47萬家，強制登錄的則是2%，沒有登錄已經慘了，對於有登錄的，你們也沒辦法預判、沒有預警機制，統統都沒有，是靠檢舉的！我剛才也講了，你們現在只鎖定某些特定廠商或國家，但其他沒有嗎？其他沒有嗎？我剛才就舉一個例子給你了，高度可疑啊！也是累犯啊！這些都是累犯。","部長，以我這麼多年看來，署長不適任啦！不適任啦！沒有能力、不積極、也不用心，查到了仍然一樣不做後市場監控，只要求退關，業者毫無風險！為查獲不合格只被退關，他連成本負擔都沒有，因為產品沒有進來。"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有進來就是一種負擔嘛！"],["林委員淑芬：既然零風險，若我是業者，我也敢。因為若照你們往年的作為，查到不合格只是退關而已，也不用賠錢啊！"],["主席：謝謝林淑芬委員。衛福部必須加強查核工作，剛才林委員提出非常多可能有疑慮的廠商，可能要加強查核。","處理臨時提案，總共有8案，請一併宣讀。","一、","監察院曾於2020年提出調查報告，指出目前規定應建立食品追溯追蹤系統之業者僅約占所有食品業者之2%，且有許多業者並未依法建立食品追溯追蹤系統。","經查，目前食品藥物管理署提供消費者查詢之「食品追溯追蹤管理資訊系統」，頁面設計過於複雜不易使用，且多數食品品項於系統中查詢不到，或登錄時間已過於陳舊，業者並未及時更新，難以發揮食品追溯追蹤之效果，無法保障消費者之飲食安全。","爰要求行政院食品安全辦公室及衛福部食品藥物管理署，加強食品雲與食品追溯追蹤管理資訊系統之互相勾稽，並就食品業者落實強制登錄之責任，擬定完善計畫與措施。","提案人：王育敏　　蘇清泉　　盧縣一　　陳菁徽　　涂權吉","二、","今（113）年食品藥物管理署查獲大量進口中國製辣椒粉，含致癌物「蘇丹色素三號」，雖食藥署已將中國製辣椒粉改為逐批查驗，並於3月1日公告輸入食品無論在邊境或後市場，一旦檢出違法添加物，立即停止輸入查驗，惟中國製辣椒粉已進入市場，並大規模利用於加工食品，目前下架高達兩萬六千餘公斤，危害國人食安甚鉅。","有鑑於大宗食品原料使用範圍廣泛，於市場擴散速度遠較其他食品更為快速，後續查緝更為困難，爰要求食藥署應針對食品原料，提高邊境查驗檢驗率，並研擬完善預警機制，提高問題食品下架速度。","提案人：王育敏　　蘇清泉　　盧縣一　　陳菁徽　　涂權吉","三、","主旨：","有鑑於行政院食品安全辦公室自2016年5月20日迄今，皆不曾向法務部請調過檢察官人力辦理相關食安黑心查緝作業。相比過往法務部高等檢察署曾派駐檢察官至行政院食品安全辦公室負責協調偵辦，並直接在食安管理業務、應變溝通及稽查取締發揮良好守護國人成果，已凸顯目前行政院食品安全辦公室應積極借鏡之需。爰此，特提案要求行政院食安辦公室限期完成請調檢察官進駐辦公之評估作業，並於一個月內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。","提案人：廖偉翔　　陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　王育敏　　涂權吉　　","四、","主旨：","有鑑於按最新行政院食安辦公室官網所揭露資訊，目前僅有專職人力4員，並需肩負處理行政協調溝通、法規制度管理、風險預警應變、計畫資訊整合等跨部會業務。倘若加上兼任主任的員額及借調的3名人員，總計人力也才8員，相比最初2014年行政院食安辦公室甫成立配置20名專職人員相差甚遠（包括行政院編制內人員、各食品安全業務有關機關含經濟部、衛生福利部、法務部、農委會及財團法人借調人員、具專業約騁人員等），人事作業上實凸顯輕視食安之施政心態。爰此，特提案要求行政院食安辦公室限期完成人事員額配置檢討作業，並於一個月內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。","提案人：廖偉翔　　陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　王育敏　　涂權吉　　","五、","主旨：","按衛福部官方邊境檢驗不符合食品資訊查詢系統所揭露，自111年1月至113年1月有關「辣椒食品」受驗出含有蘇丹紅的重量，共計發布達10萬8,178公斤；然而，在本日「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討專題報告（書面報告）」中，衛福部僅就111年至112年邊境驗出9批共5萬5,275公斤含蘇丹紅的「辣椒粉」給予國人交代。","是以，考量官方所掌握的5萬5,275公斤含蘇丹紅辣椒粉，尚與整體10萬8,178公斤含蘇丹紅的辣椒食品間，有整整5萬2,903公斤違法黑數迄今流向不明，在欠缺清楚的說明交代之下，將嚴重影響我國食品安全，並侵損國人生命健康，爰要求限期於一周內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。","說明：","食藥署違規發布紀錄(一)111年1月辣椒細片2萬4,000公斤(二)112年3月片裝紅辣椒200公斤(三)112年4月辣椒粉1萬5,000公斤(四)112年4月辣椒片1萬公斤(五)112年4月辣椒粉1萬1,000公斤(六)112年5月乾辣椒粉4,150公斤(七)112年5月乾辣椒粉1,000公斤(八)112年9月乾辣椒粉細3,600公斤(九)112年11月番椒紅椒粉2,875公斤(十)112年12月熱烘乾辣椒粉7,450公斤(十一)113年1月辣椒粉1萬5,207公斤(十二)辣椒粉1萬3,696公斤；以上驗出含蘇丹紅辣椒食品共計10萬8,178公斤。","提案人：廖偉翔　　陳菁徽　　涂權吉　　蘇清泉　　王育敏　　","六、","鑑於中國辣椒粉蘇丹紅案，雖然衛生福利部已禁止中國21家辣椒粉製造商／出口商的辣椒粉輸台，已影響國內食品產業發展，且引發民眾對食的安心，爰要求日後只要輸台產品檢出具食品安全疑慮且是我國環境部已公告之毒性或關注化學物質，一律立即禁止輸台。","陳　瑩　　林月琴　　劉建國　　黃秀芳　　王正旭　　","七、","有鑒於台中市衛生局1月15日前往國防部福利事業管理處所屬台中福利站，抽驗國產台糖安心豚梅花肉片（冷凍），檢驗結果發現含有不得檢出的瘦肉精西布特羅（Cimbuterol），檢出數值為0.002ppm。由於農業部已於109年9月7日依據《動物用藥品管理法》第五條第一項第一款之規定公告，乙型受體素（β-agonist）為禁止國內製造、調劑、輸入、輸出、販售、陳列之藥品。加上，食藥署已說此次台糖驗出西布特羅，不是實驗室污染。因此，國外進口豬肉是否含有西布特羅？受到外界質疑，台灣大學獸醫專業學院名譽教授賴秀穗曾表示，西布特羅毒性高出萊克多巴胺近千倍，若誤食過量恐導致心臟出問題，還會影響神經系統、呼吸系統，國際均禁止使用在食用動物上，包括牛、豬、雞、火雞等都不可以。引發人心惶惶。","爰提案要求衛福部應報行政院食品安全辦公室，在未查出台糖西布特羅瘦肉精究竟如何出現的原因，完成跨部會調查前，以及立法院同意前，政府不開放含有瘦肉精豬肉進口。","提案人：蘇清泉　　","連署人：涂權吉　　陳菁徽　　王育敏　　","八、","食藥署提醒，人體服用過量的瘦肉精，可能會產生心跳加速、血管擴張、肌肉顫抖、焦慮及代謝異常等中毒症狀。台北市立聯合醫院陽明院區胸腔科內科醫師蘇一峰補充，除了引發心悸、心血管疾病、噁心、頭暈、手顫抖、血壓上升等症狀之外，瘦肉精也是體育禁藥（興奮劑），運動員若是誤食含有瘦肉精的肉品，可能會導致尿檢呈陽性反應，因此運動員、老人、孕婦、幼兒，以及心血管疾病患者，在食用上務必特別留意。有鑒於台中市衛生局1月15日前往國防部福利事業管理處所屬台中福利站，抽驗國產台糖安心豚梅花肉片（冷凍），檢驗結果發現含有不得檢出的瘦肉精西布特羅（Cimbuterol），檢出數值為0.002ppm。引起社會關注。","爰提案要求衛福部應全面檢測市售國內外肉品，是否除了萊克多巴胺以外，尚含其它類型之乙型瘦體素（瘦肉精）。","提案人：蘇清泉","連署人：涂權吉　　陳菁徽　　王育敏　　"],["主席：現在處理這8項臨時提案。","針對第1案，請問行政單位與委員有沒有意見？"],["吳署長秀梅：委員好，我們是有一些文字要修正。"],["主席：請說。"],["吳署長秀梅：第一段的部分，「2%」之後是不是可以刪掉？因為我們現在要進行的食品追溯追蹤系統有法律上的規定，要是這裡這樣寫，看起來好像是很多業者都要做，其實不是。"],["主席：好。還有呢？就這個？"],["吳署長秀梅：再來是第2段。第2段第2行「資訊系統」後面，我們要加「食品資訊專櫃」。"],["主席：好。"],["吳署長秀梅：在第3行後面「業者並未及時更新」、再後面是逗點，之後的「難以發揮」等要劃掉，劃掉的是「難以發揮食品追溯追蹤之效果」，也就是這段劃掉，後面改為「無法及時提供產品資訊予消費者」。「更新」之後的文字我念一下：「業者並未及時更新，無法及時提供產品資訊予消費者」。"],["主席：「予消費者」是不是？"],["吳署長秀梅：對，「予消費者」。"],["主席：給消費者？"],["吳署長秀梅：對。"],["主席：好。還有呢？"],["吳署長秀梅：到第3段這裡，第3段是第2行，在「追溯追蹤管理資訊系統」之後，就加上「食品資訊專櫃」，接「之互相勾稽」。「就」的部分，將「並就」改成「並輔導」，改為「並輔導食品業者提高產品資訊揭露之意願，並擬定輔導計畫」。"],["主席：「之意願」啊？你的意思就是用尊重的方式嗎？剛才林淑芬委員也問到這個啊！"],["吳署長秀梅：這是要業者自己上去登錄的。"],["主席：所以現在沒有任何強制性就是了？"],["吳署長秀梅：對。"],["主席：就看業者要登錄或不登錄？"],["吳署長秀梅：對，這個專櫃是這樣。但是我們的追溯追蹤系統就屬於強制的，這裡的專櫃則屬於業者自己上去登錄的。"],["主席：你是說專櫃這邊只能輔導，不能強制？"],["吳署長秀梅：對，我們會多鼓勵他們。"],["主席：目前、現行做法是這樣，是不是？"],["吳署長秀梅：是。"],["主席：好，那就修正通過。","因為蘇委員路途比較遙遠，第7、8案先處理。"],["吳署長秀梅：針對第7案，我們有修改一些文字。第6行最後「不是實驗室污染」改為「為個案事件」。另外是後面從「因此」開始到最後，針對西布特羅的毒性，臺大賴秀穗教授已經澄清過了，當時他因為人在外面，沒有聽得很清楚，以為是另外一項乙型受體素，所以他後來澄清，對於西布特羅的毒性，其實目前大家都還沒有很清楚的研究，比較能證實的大概只有過敏的相關作用。所以是不是把這裡的污染改為個案事件，也就是把本來的「實驗室污染」改為「為個案事件」，再後面這一段就統統刪掉？"],["主席：所以，其實食藥署也認為這是個案事件，不是定調實驗室污染？你們沒有這樣講，對不對？你們沒有任何證據證明是實驗室污染嘛！對不對？"],["吳署長秀梅：就是很多因素都沒有辦法排除，但大家也找不到原因。"],["主席：對啊！找不到原因就要說找不到原因，我覺得很大膽地說是實驗室污染是不對的，因為需要證據啊！對不對？你們要證據充分才能講嘛！"],["吳署長秀梅：對，所以大家都努力找原因。"],["主席：所以你們也認為不要這樣寫？好啊！"],["吳署長秀梅：是。"],["主席：「為個案事件」？好。"],["吳署長秀梅：後面這一段就劃掉、不要有，因為賴教授已經澄清過了，謝謝。","第2段是「爰提案要求衛福部」之後接「、農業部及行政院食品安全辦公室」，逗點之後是「應積極調查台糖西布特羅瘦肉精究竟如何出現的原因」。再來是句點─對不起，是逗點，後面接「並儘速對外說明」，其他就劃掉。"],["主席：蘇委員，可以嗎？"],["蘇委員清泉：可以。"],["主席：好，蘇委員同意，那就按剛剛的文字修正通過。","處理第8案。"],["吳署長秀梅：第8案的第2段「爰提案要求衛福部應」後面劃掉，我們剛才跟委員提過文字修正，是「爰提案要求衛福部應持續強化抽驗市售國內外豬肉產品檢驗乙型受體素（含西布特羅）」。"],["蘇委員清泉：你們是不是有一個panel，針對21項都有檢查？"],["吳署長秀梅：對，現在的法定方法就是檢查21項乙型受體素。"],["主席：可以喔，蘇委員？好，那就按剛才食藥署所提修正文字通過。","處理第2案。"],["吳署長秀梅：第2案第2段第1行這裡可以，第2行在「更為快速，後續查緝更為困難」之後就改為句點。後面的文字我們希望可以改，改的是「請食藥署依食安法對於輸入之不合格產品情況較嚴重者，亦就該地區之其他製造商輸入相同產品，採取加速提升邊境查驗強度」。"],["主席：後面呢？都沒有了？"],["吳署長秀梅：對，就是句點。"],["主席：那後面那一段呢？就是你們的預警機制呢？「提高問題食品下架速度」呢？針對這次蘇丹紅問題，其實剛剛委員都講你們的速度其實還滿緩慢的。在去年第1例開始出現的時候，當時的示警看起來並沒有讓所有後市場或地方政府全面警醒可能要非常、加強重點查緝啊！所以這項提案還有後段這個目的，那部分都保留好了，好不好？後段文字還是保留。"],["吳署長秀梅：好。"],["主席：那就按照剛剛的修正通過。","處理第3案。"],["許主任輔：報告召委，針對第3案，行政單位沒意見。"],["主席：沒意見？好，通過。","處理第4案。"],["許主任輔：針對第4案，我們剛剛先跟廖委員討論過，關於食安辦的人力，建議第2行刪除「專職人力」4個字，也就是改為「目前僅有4員」，「並……」都沒改。第4行的「3名人員，」後加上「共計8人」。下一句「總計人力也才8員」到「相比」劃掉。下一句「最初2014年行政院食安辦公室甫成立」這幾個字還在，但是「配置20名專職人員」這邊要修正，因為我們其實從當時的院內專職4人到現在都一樣、沒變，當時也沒有20員，是從各部會調進來，所以這樣寫不對，我們剛才跟委員說明過，所以這邊的「甫成立」之後改成「由相關部會及院內人員支援不同」，再來是「爰此，特提案要求行政院食安辦公室限期完成人事員額」，中間那邊都劃掉，一直到「爰此」。「員額配置」後本來是「檢討作業」，建議「檢討」改成「評估」，再接「作業」。然後，「並於」之後本來寫「一個月內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會」，這裡的「一個月」改成「三個月」。"],["主席：廖委員，剛才有就修正跟你討論過，你同意嗎？"],["廖委員偉翔：可以。"],["主席：可以喔？好，那就按剛剛的文字修正通過。","處理第5案。"],["吳署長秀梅：針對第5案，我們剛才也跟廖委員溝通過。在第2段的部分，有一些數據其實目前不是很清楚，所以那些數據劃掉，我念一下：「是以，考量官方所掌握」─後面的數據就劃掉，接「含蘇丹紅辣椒粉流向不明，將嚴重影響我國食品安全」，中間的文字劃掉。「並侵損……」等文字劃掉，接「爰要求限期於一周內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告」。"],["主席：可以喔？好，這一案修正通過。","處理第6案。"],["吳署長秀梅：第6案照案辦理。"],["主席：好，通過。","處理完畢。","主席宣告：中午不休息，持續進行詢答。便當已經發到桌上，大家可以自行用便當。","請陳委員雪生發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":296,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-2","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","廖偉翔","林月琴","涂權吉","邱鎮軍","黃秀芳","蘇清泉","盧縣一","劉建國","王正旭","楊曜","林淑芬","陳雪生","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","陳瑩","王鴻薇","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","林德福"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-03-04"],"gazette_id":"1130601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1130601_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院食品安全辦公室、衛生福利部部長、食品藥物管理署就「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅\n事件處理之檢討」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1130601_00008"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":4.334093750000001,"end":7.72596875,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":9.14346875,"end":11.168468750000002,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":15.404093750000001,"end":114.03846875,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":114.20721875000001,"end":140.76846875,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":141.44346875000002,"end":141.46034375000002,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.46034375000002,"end":149.18909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":145.08846875,"end":148.39596875,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":148.91909375,"end":154.82534375,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.75346875,"end":155.78721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.41159375,"end":163.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":163.02659375000002,"end":168.74721875,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":169.92846875,"end":179.51346875000002,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":179.68221875,"end":187.24221875,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.15471875,"end":181.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":187.41096875000002,"end":187.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":187.59659375,"end":190.75221875000003,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.81534375,"end":194.85284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":194.85284375,"end":194.86971875,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.86971875,"end":194.95409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":194.95409375,"end":200.15159375000002,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":200.23596875,"end":206.27721875,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":207.39096875,"end":209.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":207.77909375000002,"end":209.12909375,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.70284375,"end":209.75346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬委員文君","start":209.75346875000002,"end":213.11159375000003,"speaker_score":0.739},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.77034375000002,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署長你好整個你的所管理的業務裡面最核心的食品跟藥品那我們都知道整個國家的管理制度你們管理制度不管是食品的安全還是藥品的安全都建立在最核心的前提當然就是業者自律這個前提"},{"start":34.739,"end":57.813,"text":"那業者自律呢?食品安全也是業者自律那顯然我們政府經過多年食安事件以後要求要追溯追蹤系統然後呢?雖然是這樣子但是根據監察院的報告監察院的2020年的報告指出啊這個按照食品衛生管理法的規定所申請登錄的業者有47萬5736家次"},{"start":60.675,"end":74.204,"text":"但是呢你們要求強力要求要建立這個追溯追蹤系統要參加食品雲的加數只有一萬家比例是七萬跟一萬比例是兩趴兩趴"},{"start":75.985,"end":80.688,"text":"在這種狀況裏面事實上我們會講說你今天的報告講得很好聽你今天的書面報告說食藥署的風險預警預判功能是有預判的所以你們要強化風險預警分析為導入數據分析輔助風險偵測然後針對高圍規高關注的產品高風險進行預判"},{"start":100.538,"end":106.342,"text":"然後呢你們今天還講到說這個要強化風險預警預判功能不但講預警預判連登錄都沒有然後強制要登錄追溯追蹤的只有2%的業者所以在這裡喔我們消費者一路走來始終是發生食安事件以後抱歉含致癌物質的藥品我已經吞了一大堆了含致癌物質的添加物我已經吃下去一大堆了"},{"start":128.496,"end":148.074,"text":"那今天我就問你最核心的一件事情請問辣椒粉輸入有沒有在食品追溯追蹤系統的登錄體系裡面有沒有強制規定要登錄報告委員那個因為這個業者他如果是有不是這個業者我講辣椒粉這個品項因為這次出示的辣椒粉請問他是依據你們哪一個規定去參加這個登錄"},{"start":156.448,"end":168.303,"text":"就是我們規定有他的那個資本額是3000萬以上然後又有工廠登記我怎樣請問他們有沒有嗎現在出事的有沒有的有參加食品有沒有登錄"},{"start":169.98,"end":186.434,"text":"有追溯系統嗎?有上游的流向從哪裡進來?有下游的流向哪裡?跑到哪裡嗎?保興公司他必須要執行他有沒有執行?我再問你他根據什麼規定要執行?你旁邊記證組長,你旁邊,問你書店這核心業務,你書店還要你大旁邊幫他搞"},{"start":191.806,"end":210.842,"text":"有那個保興公司他有執行你不要在這裡騙委員難怪大家說國會要有聽證制度你是一共應建立食品追蹤追溯系統的食品業者有幾類有幾項我們這邊有25類25類他們是第幾類你說給我聽聽看他是屬於輸入業者不是啦第幾個序號第幾類"},{"start":221.618,"end":229.25,"text":"我恐怕你們是他是沒有登錄沒有被要求要強硬的要建立食品追蹤追溯系統的吧"},{"start":230.65,"end":258.831,"text":"檢察院講了47萬家你們強硬要求規定都是3000萬規模以上的居多當然也有小型的比如高風險的也要但是辣椒粉它根本都不在25類裡面我想不懂你怎麼預判風景你哪裡可以溯源你當然沒有辦法溯源也不知道流向啊你現在查到的都是海關比對資料勾集出來的吧"},{"start":260.143,"end":285.937,"text":"你就回答我 你們在這裡都說吧委員他這裡 第23類這個農產品他是屬於這個農產植物菇類還有藻類製品他是屬於這個輸入業者這一類好 那我現在就再問你23類嘛 植物製品菇類藻類他是菇類還是藻類製品他是農產植物"},{"start":288.066,"end":293.537,"text":"好 那現在我再問你那為什麼你們要這樣子自己擠牙膏慢慢擠 擠這麼久"},{"start":295.339,"end":302.024,"text":"就是從1月8號檢舉人檢舉檢舉人是寄生SGS有檢出這個韓蘇丹紅然後呢雲林縣政府去查場然後1月22他們去後市場再去買產品然後我們送到衛福部送到衛福部大家今天包括劉建國委員講這個從不要講1月8號啦"},{"start":321.48,"end":346.208,"text":"至少確認的是1月30號然後你們1月30號一直拖拖到2月20號才暫停了21家近年曾經進口不合格輸入不合格中國辣椒粉的業者才3個月然後呢大家才發現說你今天的報告有講說欸去年去年的年中你們5月22"},{"start":348.072,"end":374.551,"text":"我因為我辦公室跟你們要了資料啦要了資料你們FDA提供的資料齁這五年裡面中國辣椒粉抽驗的比例不合格的批數啦齁去年齁是你們提供的資料是抽驗了27%的比例不合格的批數是22批那不合格的比例是多高其中是屬於蘇丹紅的有7批"},{"start":376.038,"end":398.631,"text":"我現在問你說不合格去年的中國來的是330批我看一下330批我現在問你你光是給我們的22批不合格這是含蘇丹紅還是所有含農藥過蘇丹紅有7批農藥有16批那我現在要跟你講這件事情是食安辦的資料跟你們根本就對不起來"},{"start":399.471,"end":426.411,"text":"光是5月22不合格3批8月15去年不合格6批9月13不合格7批12月11不合格13批這去年半年就超過29批加起來是超過29批因為這是累計的它是累計然後有的是含有農藥所以如果我現在講全部啊不合格批次你給我們的數字是22批"},{"start":427.893,"end":428.153,"text":"林淑芬議員"},{"start":444.315,"end":465.764,"text":"就發現之前就發現有很多的不合格所以才把抽驗的比例提高到20%在5月之前你們就發現很多不合格所以在5月你們再提高到20%驗出來以後又非常的不合格所以你們去年的8月又把"},{"start":467.225,"end":488.463,"text":"這個抽菸的比例提高到30%然後又發現抽菸的還是很多不合格然後再到9月再把提高抽菸的比例提高到50%然後又發現很多不合格才會變成12月的時候說那我們乾脆對中國來的邊境不合格率這麼多的話我們提高抽菸比例到100%"},{"start":490.945,"end":506.618,"text":"如果根據這個相關的法規這個查驗辦法食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法來講事實上就是非常非常多每次抽驗都不合格再抽驗又不合格所以才會變成百分之百的抽驗那我現在問你說你抽驗之後你邊境當然是抽驗這麼多不合格不合格以後抽驗到了那你有沒有進行後市場繼續抽驗"},{"start":516.358,"end":527.887,"text":"這個是源頭邊境嘛你抽菸這麼高這麼多批都不合格你發現這個中國來的辣椒粉穿了蘇丹紅的或是其他農藥超標這麼嚴重那你有沒有做後市場的繼續把關"},{"start":534.011,"end":552.81,"text":"有,我們如果有在邊境有查到不合格的就會把相關的資訊回饋到後市場然後地方政府他就去查相關的這些他到底查了多少次,查了哪些記錄對,我們後來回饋回饋到地方政府這邊的在一百"},{"start":554.111,"end":561.097,"text":"今年度的1月到2月20號不要再講我聽不下去因為從去年年初就一直驗不及格驗不及格你們到今年去年一整年你們都沒有後市場抽驗而今年你說1到2月你們交給地方政府不要再講今年的1月8號檢舉人就跟地方政府檢舉了"},{"start":578.452,"end":595.411,"text":"1月8號這個是檢舉人這個不是不是邊境查驗然後再去主動FDA或地方政府主動去透視講查驗產品來抽驗都不是這個案件整個是也不是你做原稅做追蹤系統查出來都不是這是檢舉人起的頭"},{"start":599.856,"end":611.966,"text":"所以要說你們都明明知道源頭把關的邊境這麼多不合格可是你們還是代呼職者不願意積極辦理然後仍然放任我要再講第二章的這個我跟你們要了這五年裡面邊境查驗違反規定的我就整理了一些啦你看這個名單啦今天出事的過去都出過事了啦"},{"start":634.278,"end":650.407,"text":"保新108年也有今天的金站就是海底撈的這個金站加廣我告訴大家不管他叫金站加廣釜山還是海順通通都是同一家人同一家族"},{"start":651.462,"end":660.855,"text":"登記在同一個公司吳克民他有兩家所以他們都知道邊境產業不及格沒關係我再用其他公司再進口"},{"start":662.222,"end":689.199,"text":"這一家有問題我再用別的再進口然後你看都同一批人你看六豐生物這個綠豐實業看起來好像不是但你到工商登記裡面他們都互為股東都有公私相通還有這個天松企業這個都是檢出蘇丹紅色素所以所以我再講一個我不想差出可是這也是實話我就發現這個韓廣韓廣"},{"start":692.762,"end":721.613,"text":"我看他的其他的公司登記我認為他進口的不是只有中國辣椒他檢出的這個含有蘇丹紅色素的還有農藥超標的他的進口來源是哪一國這去年而已啊他被檢出3批啊他是中國進口的嗎是不是因為他做的他本來是一家韓國小吃店後來他成立另外兩家公司叫首爾什麼公司還有韓什麼公司的"},{"start":722.611,"end":741.871,"text":"所以我今天要跟你們講 從去年 其實也不要去年 歷年來大家都知道辣椒和辣椒粉本來就是高風險的而你們也查出來 邊境源頭都查出來了可是你們從來不做後市場把關 沒有 而且後市場把關本來就很難了我必須要講為什麼很難 後市場把關為什麼難 因為原料"},{"start":747.43,"end":767.959,"text":"原料它添加物然後加工以後變成產品它會一直不斷的稀釋所以在源頭去把關查出不合格檢出違規違法這是比較容易的到後市場你要檢出不合格其實是比較困難的"},{"start":769.019,"end":796.378,"text":"可是當你後市場而這一次的事件是1月22號雲林縣政府他去茶場發現原料有問題他還去後市場買買來交給我們食藥署驗仍然這個產品後市場抽驗的產品仍然有蘇丹紅還驗得出來你就知道這個含量多麼的高這個多麼嚴重所以我們都知道說啊"},{"start":798.304,"end":812.664,"text":"追溯追蹤你們當然講我們會增加預警預判你們連發現了都不繼續做那我今天在跟你講說你現在禁止了21家的中國食品輸出商嘛對不對"},{"start":814.249,"end":841.709,"text":"是不是?對那我問你,廣家跟金站他們輸入中國大陸哪一家公司?Kevin,Kevin食品Kevin食品,OK我們辦公室去使用中國的國家企業信用信息系統沒有這一家公司然後你去Google查詢你知道是查到什麼公司嗎?"},{"start":843.035,"end":867.194,"text":"Kevin Shippinging可以查得到他是一家什麼公司嗎我就問你人家給你登錄了然後也出事了社會案件都爆發的這麼嚴重了他說你也禁止了21家中國廠商進來我禁止了Kevin Shippinging進來了可是我現在問你有沒有這一家公司中國有沒有這一家公司啊"},{"start":868.543,"end":896.142,"text":"為什麼一個食品出口商的名字會叫SHIPPINGSHIP我們在GOOGLE查到他是一家香港的船務公司啊中文的名字叫家運船務有限公司你們進口了一家不曉得在做什麼也不知道有沒有真的有這一家公司的這個公司你進了一個虛無縹緲的公司他還有另外一個名稱在進來"},{"start":897.665,"end":916.914,"text":"所以我們在想說這樣子怎麼對呢?你們總是讓我們吃下去以後告訴我說這有問題吃下去很多以後告訴我沒意囖然後你的風險預警系統根本就是失靈然後呢你看這些廠商每年不斷的反覆在違規今年是這一家明年是那一家結果都是同一家族"},{"start":917.774,"end":931.564,"text":"然後他們還是不但你上有政策他更而他下有對策更何況你們上面根本沒有在查查到了就這樣子再換一個公司不同的名稱台灣進口商但是負責任同一家或是同一個家族"},{"start":932.594,"end":948.42,"text":"然後在他們會換名字啊一年裡面我我天我這個海順不會一直用海順啊我下一批用釜山再用金山再用加廣輪流使用不同名稱然後分散被查驗的機率和風險所以今天在這裡說你現在沒有辦法一次告訴我們他明明就這麼高風險而且屢屢被查出被查出到你還有100%查驗了結果你後市場放任不管哈"},{"start":963.8,"end":967.902,"text":"我們再來對於這種不該存在於食品當中的這些物質那我們就會從百分之百的逐批那我們也會評估之後然後就立刻的停止這些產品的你已經當了這個位置當幾年了啦你未來未來我們有食品雲幾年了你還講說未來以後不會"},{"start":994.588,"end":1015.518,"text":"那你剛才回答上一個委員講到說如果查到了就下架啊沒查到呢我們繼續吞下肚嗎所以管理不是這樣子雖然我們知道你們力有未待食品藥品你都是靠業者自律可是當業者不自律這麼久了然後我們一直吞下肚吞那麼久了我們只能自求多福嗎"},{"start":1017.219,"end":1037.564,"text":"在這種狀況裡面,你們講預警預判,你們哪一次成功預警預判?連數據都沒有,連流向都沒有,連這一種那麼公開的紙上公司這麼多輪流進口的,同一個家族的,然後每年都違規的,後市場都放任不管,還要靠檢舉案,整個事件是檢舉案耶!"},{"start":1039.504,"end":1049.172,"text":"這個跟10年前10年前沒有食品運事件沒有食品運制度的食安事件還是回到原點沒有更進步所以我們今天在這裡監察院講的食品業者47萬家強制登錄的2%那沒有登錄就已經慘了有登錄的你也沒辦法發生獄派沒辦法有獄警的機制通通都沒有是靠檢舉的"},{"start":1068.424,"end":1085.049,"text":"啊我剛剛講說你們現在把他鎖定在只有某些特定的廠商或是國家其他沒有嗎其他沒有嗎其他我剛剛就給你舉一個例子了高度的可疑啊也是累犯啊這些都是累犯所以今天在這裡齁您我我是覺得啦部長我看起來這麼多年我們的書店不適任啦不適任啦也沒有能力"},{"start":1097.847,"end":1112.539,"text":"也不積極,也不用心,查到啊,就一樣不做市長,查到叫他退官,查到叫他退官,驗證毫無風險,查獲不合格,退官,他連成本負擔都沒有,因為他沒有進來,沒有進來就是一種負擔,連風險,我驗證我也敢,因為如果叫你去年會很危險,查到無法叫他退官而已,不用了解啊,"},{"start":1126.035,"end":1128.344,"text":"好 那我們謝謝林淑芬委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:38:42+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:38:46.346000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請食藥署署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:38:46.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:38:46.967000+08:00","text":"請食藥署署長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:38:57.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:38:57.701000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:38:58.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:38:59.203000+08:00","text":"署長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:39:00.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:39:15.698000+08:00","text":"署長所管理的業務裡面，最核心的就是食品跟藥品；我們都知道整個國家的管理制度，也就是你們的管理制度，不管是食品的安全，還是藥品的安全，最核心的前提就是業者自律這個前提。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:39:20.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:39:58.826000+08:00","text":"顯然我們的政府在經過多年食安事件以後也要求要追溯追蹤系統，但是根據監察院2020年的報告指出，按照食品衛生管理法規定所申請登錄的業者有47萬5,736家次，但是你們強力要求要建立這個追溯追蹤系統、參加食品雲的家數只有1萬家，47萬跟1萬的比例是2%，在這種狀況裡面，事實上，你們今天的報告也講得很好聽。","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:39:58.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:40:02.668000+08:00","text":"你們今天的書面報告說：食藥署的風險預警、預判功能是有預判的，所以你們要強化風險預警分析，導入數據分析輔助風險偵測，然後針對高違規、高關注、高風險的產品進行預判。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:40:23.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:40:25.260000+08:00","text":"你們今天還講到要強化風險預警、預判功能，結果不僅沒有預警、預判，連登錄都沒有，然後強制要登錄追溯追蹤的只有2%業者。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:40:25.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:40:27.521000+08:00","text":"在這裡，消費者一路走來始終是發生食安事件以後，只能說「歹勢」、「含致癌物質的藥品我已經吞一大堆了！","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:40:27.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:40:28.322000+08:00","text":"」、「含致癌物質的添加物我已經吃下去一大堆了！」。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:40:50.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:00.285000+08:00","text":"那我今天就問你最核心的一件事，請問：辣椒粉輸入有沒有在食品追溯追蹤系統的登錄體系裡面？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:00.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:04.068000+08:00","text":"有沒有強制規定要登錄？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:04.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:04.769000+08:00","text":"報告委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:05.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:06.991000+08:00","text":"因為這個業者如果是有工廠登記的……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:07.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:08.252000+08:00","text":"不是這個業者，我在講辣椒粉這個品項！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:08.252000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:09.252000+08:00","text":"OK，有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:08.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:10.074000+08:00","text":"針對這次出事的辣椒粉，請問是依據你們哪一項規定參加登錄？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:18.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:23.815000+08:00","text":"我們的規定有資本額3,000萬元以上，然後要有工廠登記。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:23.815000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:24.996000+08:00","text":"我知道啦！","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:24.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:25.917000+08:00","text":"那請問他們有沒有嘛！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:26.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:30.303000+08:00","text":"現在出事的有沒有參加食品登錄？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:31.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:33.321000+08:00","text":"有追溯系統嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:33.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:35.443000+08:00","text":"有沒有上游流向、從哪裡進來？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:35.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:38.726000+08:00","text":"有下游流向、知道跑到哪裡嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:38.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:40.988000+08:00","text":"保欣公司必須執行追溯追蹤。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:42.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:43.170000+08:00","text":"那它有沒有執行？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:43.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:45.952000+08:00","text":"我在問你，它是根據什麼規定要執行？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:46.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:48.034000+08:00","text":"在旁邊的技正、組長去旁邊，我問你們署長，這是核心業務，你們署長卻還要你在旁邊教她！","quality":0.528},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:53.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:55.948000+08:00","text":"有，保欣公司有執行。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:56.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:41:58.790000+08:00","text":"你不要在這裡騙委員！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:41:58.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:00.732000+08:00","text":"難怪大家都說國會要有聽證制度。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:03.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:07.217000+08:00","text":"應建立食品追蹤追溯系統的食品業者有幾類、有幾項？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:07.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:09.839000+08:00","text":"我們這邊一共有25類。25類？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:09.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:10.400000+08:00","text":"那它是第幾類？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:10.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:10.680000+08:00","text":"你說給我聽聽看。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:10.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:11.801000+08:00","text":"它屬於輸入業者。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:11.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:12.261000+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:12.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:12.842000+08:00","text":"第幾個序號、第幾類？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:23.818000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:31.230000+08:00","text":"它恐怕是沒有登錄、沒有被要求、被強硬規定要建立食品追蹤、追溯系統的吧！","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:32.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:41.957000+08:00","text":"監察院講了47萬家，而你們強硬要求規定的都以3,000萬元規模以上的居多；當然也有小型的，比如說高風險的也要。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:42.758000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:50.503000+08:00","text":"但是辣椒粉根本就不在25類裡面，我想不通你怎麼預判風險？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:51.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:52.224000+08:00","text":"你從哪裡可以溯源？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:52.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:42:55.507000+08:00","text":"你當然沒有辦法溯源，也不知道流向啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:42:56.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:00.811000+08:00","text":"你現在查到的都是海關比對資料勾稽出來的吧？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:02.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:02.763000+08:00","text":"你就回答我。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:02.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:03.764000+08:00","text":"你們在這裡都說謊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:04.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:14.790000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這裡有第23類農產品，它是屬於農產植物、菇類、還有藻類製品輸入業者這一類。好。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:15.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:25.835000+08:00","text":"那我現在就再問你，第23類是植物製品、菇類、藻類，那它是菇類還是藻類製品？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:26.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:30.066000+08:00","text":"它是農產植物。好。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:31.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:35.517000+08:00","text":"我再問你，為什麼你們要這樣自己擠牙膏、慢慢擠、擠這麼久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:38.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:40.081000+08:00","text":"從1月8日檢舉人檢舉、檢舉人是濟生，他們的SGS檢驗檢出含有蘇丹紅嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:40.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:43:43.104000+08:00","text":"然後雲林縣政府去查廠，1月22日再去後市場買產品送到衛福部。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:43:43.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:44:19.765000+08:00","text":"關於送到衛福部，今天包括劉建國委員也講，就算不要講1月8日，至少確認的時間是1月30日，你們卻從1月30日一直拖，拖到2月20日才暫停21家近年曾經進口不合格、輸入不合格中國辣椒粉的業者輸入3個月。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:44:21.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:44:51.648000+08:00","text":"你在今天的報告提到，大家才發現去年年中、5月22日，我的辦公室跟你們要了資料，是你們FDA提供的資料，顯示這5年裡面對中國辣椒粉抽驗的比例、不合格的批數，根據你們提供的資料，去年抽驗了27%的比例，不合格的批數是22批，那不合格比例是多高？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:44:54.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:44:56.531000+08:00","text":"其中屬於蘇丹紅的有7批。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:44:58.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:44:59.619000+08:00","text":"我現在問你的是不合格比例。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:45:00.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:45:03.521000+08:00","text":"去年中國來的是330批。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:45:07.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:45:14.327000+08:00","text":"好，我現在問你，光是你給我們的22批不合格產品，是指含蘇丹紅還是所有含農業的？","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:45:14.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:45:16.448000+08:00","text":"含蘇丹紅的有7批，含農藥的有16批。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:45:16.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:45:26.095000+08:00","text":"好，那我現在要跟你講的這件事情是食安辦的資料跟你們根本對不起來，光是5月22日不合格的有3批，8月15日─去年喔！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:45:26.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:45:38.924000+08:00","text":"不合格的有6批，9月13日不合格的有7批，12月11日不合格的是13批，去年在半年內就超過29批、加起來超過29批。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:45:39.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:45:44.088000+08:00","text":"因為這是累計的，有些是含有農藥，所以如果以去年來講……","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:45:44.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:45:46.530000+08:00","text":"我現在就是在講全部不合格批次啊！","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:45:46.530000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:46:06.975000+08:00","text":"你給我們的數字是22批，但我們再比對食安辦的資料，光是半年內─去年5月22日到12月21日就有29批，所以你們提供給我們的數據連你們自己也兜不起來。","quality":0.169},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:46:06.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:46:14.038000+08:00","text":"我還要講，你們從5月22日之前就發現很多產品不合格，所以才把抽驗比例提高到20%。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:46:14.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:46:29.225000+08:00","text":"在5月之前，你們就發現很多不合格情況，所以在5月就提高到20%，但驗出來之後又發現非常多不合格情形，所以你們在去年8月又把抽驗比例提到高到30%。","quality":0.689},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:46:29.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:46:50.463000+08:00","text":"抽驗了又發現還是有很多不合格，到了9月再把抽驗比例提高到50%，接著又發現很多不合格產品，才會到了12月乾脆因為中國來的產品邊境不合格情況這麼多，提高抽驗比例到100%。","quality":0.528},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:46:53.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:06.917000+08:00","text":"根據相關法規─食品及相關產品輸入查驗辦法來講，事實上就是非常、非常多，每次抽驗都不合格，再抽驗又不合格，才會變成100%抽驗。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:06.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:07.137000+08:00","text":"那我現在問你抽驗之後的做法。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:07.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:08.618000+08:00","text":"你們在邊境抽驗出這麼多不合格產品，不合格產品抽驗到了，你們有沒有到後市場繼續抽驗？有。","quality":0.744},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:18.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:29.887000+08:00","text":"你們在源頭邊境抽驗這麼高比例、這麼多批都不合格、發現中國來的辣椒粉摻了蘇丹紅或其他農藥超標這麼嚴重，那有沒有做後市場監測、繼續把關？","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:36.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:45.020000+08:00","text":"有，我們如果在邊境查到不合格的產品，就會把相關資訊回饋到後市場，地方政府就會查相關產品。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:45.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:48.784000+08:00","text":"到底查了多少次、保留哪些紀錄？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:48.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:57.252000+08:00","text":"我們後來回饋到地方政府這邊的，在今年度1月至2月20日抽了60……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:57.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:58.293000+08:00","text":"好，不要再講！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:58.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:47:58.593000+08:00","text":"我聽不下去！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:47:58.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:48:00.055000+08:00","text":"因為從去年年初就一直驗不及格、驗不及格，但你們今年才處理。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:48:00.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:48:01.716000+08:00","text":"去年一整年，你們都沒有後市場抽驗，而今年你又說1到2月交給地方政府，不要再講了！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:48:01.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:48:32.746000+08:00","text":"今年1月8日檢舉人就向地方政府檢舉了，1月8日這個人是檢舉人，不是邊境查驗、再由FDA或地方政府主動到後市場查驗產品抽驗，都不是！","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:48:33.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:48:37.271000+08:00","text":"整個案件也不是你們溯源追蹤系統查出來的，都不是！","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:48:37.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:48:37.411000+08:00","text":"這是檢舉人起的頭！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:48:43.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:48:50.143000+08:00","text":"你們明明都知道源頭把關的邊境檢出這麼多不合格，可是還是怠忽職責、不願意積極辦理，仍然放任。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:48:50.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:48:50.963000+08:00","text":"我要講第2張。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:48:51.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:48:53.946000+08:00","text":"我跟你們要了這5年裡面邊境查驗違反規定者，就整理了一些，你看這個名單，今天出事的過去都出過事了啦！","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:49:16.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:49:46.744000+08:00","text":"所以你自己看看，保欣108年也有，還有今天提到的津棧─就是供應海底撈的津棧、佳廣，我告訴大家，不管它叫津棧、佳廣、釜山還是海順，統統都是同一家人、同一家族，登記在同一家公司，其中吳克敏還有兩家，所以他們都知道邊境查驗不合格沒關係，用其他公司再進口；這一家有問題，再用別的公司進口。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:49:47.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:49:58.952000+08:00","text":"你看，都是同一批人，六豐生物、綠風實業看起來好像不是，但在工商登記裡，他們都互為股東，都有公司相通。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:00.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:04.815000+08:00","text":"還有天崧企業，產品都檢出蘇丹紅色素。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:07.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:07.677000+08:00","text":"我再講一件。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:08.938000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:18.824000+08:00","text":"我發現這家韓廣─我看了它的公司登記後，認為它進口的不只有中國辣椒。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:20.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:28.687000+08:00","text":"他們檢出含有蘇丹紅色素的、農藥超標的產品進口來源是哪一國？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:28.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:29.387000+08:00","text":"去年而已啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:30.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:31.968000+08:00","text":"他們就被檢出3批啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:32.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:33.929000+08:00","text":"是中國進口的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:33.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:34.149000+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:36.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:43.433000+08:00","text":"它本來是一家韓國小吃店，後來成立另外兩家公司，是名叫「首爾」什麼的、還有「韓」什麼的公司。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:50:44.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:50:59.526000+08:00","text":"所以我今天要跟你講，從去年─其實也不是說去年，歷年來大家都知道辣椒和辣椒粉本來就是高風險的，而你們也查出來了，邊境、源頭都查出來了，可是你們從來不做後市場把關，沒有！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:51:00.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:51:02.990000+08:00","text":"而且後市場把關本來就很難了，我必須講為什麼很難。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:51:02.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:51:03.410000+08:00","text":"後市場把關為什麼難呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:51:03.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:51:29.939000+08:00","text":"因為原料摻入添加物，加工以後變成產品，會一直、不斷稀釋，所以在源頭把關、查出不合格、檢出違規、違法，這是比較容易的，到後市場要檢出不合格其實是比較困難的。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:51:31.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:51:55.657000+08:00","text":"可是這次事件是1月22日雲林縣政府查廠時發現原料有問題，還去後市場買，買來交給食藥署驗，結果這個後市場抽驗的產品仍然有蘇丹紅、還驗得出來，你就知道含量多麼地高、多麼嚴重！","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:51:57.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:06.333000+08:00","text":"我們都知道要追溯、追蹤，你們當然也講「我們會增加預警、預判」，但你們連發現了都不繼續做。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:06.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:14.664000+08:00","text":"我今天是在跟你講，你們現在禁止了21家中國食品輸出商，對不對？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:16.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:17.850000+08:00","text":"是不是？對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:17.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:23.394000+08:00","text":"那我問你，佳廣跟津棧輸入來源是中國大陸哪一家公司？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:24.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:25.236000+08:00","text":"「Kevin Shipping」。","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:25.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:28.118000+08:00","text":"「Kevin Shipping」？OK。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:28.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:36.604000+08:00","text":"但我們辦公室使用了中國的國家企業信用信息系統，發現沒有這一家公司。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:38.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:43.709000+08:00","text":"然後用Google查詢，你知道查到什麼公司嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:45.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:52:51.600000+08:00","text":"針對「Kevin Shipping」，可以查到它是一家什麼公司嗎？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:52:51.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:53:07.473000+08:00","text":"我就問你，人家登錄了、也出事了，社會案件都爆發得這麼嚴重了，你也禁止了21家中國廠商進口、禁止「Kevin Shipping」進來了，可是我現在要問你有沒有這家公司？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:53:07.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:53:09.174000+08:00","text":"中國有沒有這家公司啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:53:10.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:53:16.187000+08:00","text":"為什麼一個食品出口商名字會叫「Shipping」、「Ship」？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:53:17.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:53:22.011000+08:00","text":"我在Google查到它是一家香港的船務公司啊！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:53:22.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:53:26.154000+08:00","text":"中文名字叫嘉運船務有限公司。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:53:27.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:53:41.326000+08:00","text":"你們進口的是一家不曉得在做什麼、也不知道是否真的有的公司，你們進了一家虛無縹緲的公司，它還以另一個名稱進來，所以我才講這樣怎麼對呢？","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:53:42.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:53:50.850000+08:00","text":"你們總是讓我們吃下去以後再告訴我們這個有問題、在吃下去很多以後告訴我們，你們的風險預警系統根本就失靈！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:53:50.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:00.775000+08:00","text":"然後，你看這些廠商，每年不斷、反覆違規，今年是這一家，明年是那一家，結果都是同一家族，還不斷違法。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:01.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:05.978000+08:00","text":"上有政策，下有對策，更何況你們上面根本沒在查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:06.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:13.544000+08:00","text":"就算查到了也就這樣，再換一家公司；雖然是不同名稱的臺灣進口商，但負責人屬於同一家或同一家族。","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:15.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:16.715000+08:00","text":"他們會換名字啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:17.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:27.799000+08:00","text":"一年裡面，「海順」公司不會一直用「海順」，下一批用「釜山」、再用「津棧」、再來用「佳廣」，輪流使用不同名稱，分散被查驗的機率和風險。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:27.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:30.380000+08:00","text":"你今天在這裡說現在沒有辦法一次告訴我們，但它明明就有這麼高的風險，而且屢屢被查出，都被查到你們還要100%查驗了，結果你們卻對後市場放任不管。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:30.380000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:46.700000+08:00","text":"徒法不足以自行啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:46.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:49.181000+08:00","text":"對於這種不該存在於食品當中的物質，我們會再百分之百逐批檢驗，也會在評估之後立刻停止這些產品的輸入。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:49.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:49.381000+08:00","text":"你這個位子已經當幾年了啦？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:54:49.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:54:49.902000+08:00","text":"未來、未來，我們有食品雲幾年了，你還講未來、以後不會！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:55:16.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:55:21.510000+08:00","text":"你剛才回答上一位委員時講到如果查到就下架，如果沒查到呢？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:55:21.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:55:24.972000+08:00","text":"我們繼續吞下肚嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:55:25.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:55:26.192000+08:00","text":"管理不是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:55:27.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:55:37.518000+08:00","text":"我們知道你們力有未逮，食品、藥品都靠業者自律，可是當業者不自律這麼久，我們也一直吞下肚、吞那麼久了，只能自求多福嗎？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:55:39.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:55:43.220000+08:00","text":"在這種狀況下，你們講預警、預判，但你們哪一次成功預警、預判？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:55:44.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:55:58.503000+08:00","text":"連數據都沒有、連流向都沒有，連這種那麼公開的、紙上公司這麼多，輪流進口的、同一個家族的、然後每年都違規的，後市場都放任不管，還要靠檢舉案！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:55:58.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:55:59.544000+08:00","text":"整個事件是檢舉案耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:03.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:08.730000+08:00","text":"與10年前沒有食品雲制度下的食安事件相比，還是回到原點，沒有更進步！","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:08.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:11.152000+08:00","text":"所以我們今天在這裡提到監察院講的食品業者47萬家，強制登錄的則是2%，沒有登錄已經慘了，對於有登錄的，你們也沒辦法預判、沒有預警機制，統統都沒有，是靠檢舉的！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:30.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:37.146000+08:00","text":"我剛才也講了，你們現在只鎖定某些特定廠商或國家，但其他沒有嗎？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:37.146000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:38.626000+08:00","text":"其他沒有嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:38.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:41.807000+08:00","text":"我剛才就舉一個例子給你了，高度可疑啊！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:42.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:43.108000+08:00","text":"也是累犯啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:44.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:44.808000+08:00","text":"這些都是累犯。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:46.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:46.829000+08:00","text":"部長，以我這麼多年看來，署長不適任啦！","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:46.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:56:46.929000+08:00","text":"不適任啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:56:46.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:57:06.332000+08:00","text":"沒有能力、不積極、也不用心，查到了仍然一樣不做後市場監控，只要求退關，業者毫無風險！","quality":0.639},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:57:06.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:57:08.474000+08:00","text":"為查獲不合格只被退關，他連成本負擔都沒有，因為產品沒有進來。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-04T11:57:08.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:57:09.635000+08:00","text":"沒有進來就是一種負擔嘛！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:57:09.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:57:10.296000+08:00","text":"既然零風險，若我是業者，我也敢。","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2024-03-04T11:57:10.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:57:14.519000+08:00","text":"因為若照你們往年的作為，查到不合格只是退關而已，也不用賠錢啊！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:57:29.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:57:30.344000+08:00","text":"謝謝林淑芬委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:57:30.844000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:57:41.129714+08:00","text":"衛福部必須加強查核工作，剛才林委員提出非常多可能有疑慮的廠商，可能要加強查核。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:57:41.429714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:57:46.001143+08:00","text":"處理臨時提案，總共有8案，請一併宣讀。一、","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:57:46.301143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:58:04.301143+08:00","text":"監察院曾於2020年提出調查報告，指出目前規定應建立食品追溯追蹤系統之業者僅約占所有食品業者之2%，且有許多業者並未依法建立食品追溯追蹤系統。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:58:04.601143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:58:33.458286+08:00","text":"經查，目前食品藥物管理署提供消費者查詢之「食品追溯追蹤管理資訊系統」，頁面設計過於複雜不易使用，且多數食品品項於系統中查詢不到，或登錄時間已過於陳舊，業者並未及時更新，難以發揮食品追溯追蹤之效果，無法保障消費者之飲食安全。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:58:33.758286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:58:54.044000+08:00","text":"爰要求行政院食品安全辦公室及衛福部食品藥物管理署，加強食品雲與食品追溯追蹤管理資訊系統之互相勾稽，並就食品業者落實強制登錄之責任，擬定完善計畫與措施。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:58:54.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:58:58.915429+08:00","text":"王育敏　　蘇清泉　　盧縣一　　陳菁徽　　涂權吉二、","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:58:59.215429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:59:36.072571+08:00","text":"今（113）年食品藥物管理署查獲大量進口中國製辣椒粉，含致癌物「蘇丹色素三號」，雖食藥署已將中國製辣椒粉改為逐批查驗，並於3月1日公告輸入食品無論在邊境或後市場，一旦檢出違法添加物，立即停止輸入查驗，惟中國製辣椒粉已進入市場，並大規模利用於加工食品，目前下架高達兩萬六千餘公斤，危害國人食安甚鉅。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:59:36.372571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:59:59.515429+08:00","text":"有鑑於大宗食品原料使用範圍廣泛，於市場擴散速度遠較其他食品更為快速，後續查緝更為困難，爰要求食藥署應針對食品原料，提高邊境查驗檢驗率，並研擬完善預警機制，提高問題食品下架速度。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:59:59.815429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:00:04.386857+08:00","text":"王育敏　　蘇清泉　　盧縣一　　陳菁徽　　涂權吉三、","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:00:04.686857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:00:17.829714+08:00","text":"有鑑於行政院食品安全辦公室自2016年5月20日迄今，皆不曾向法務部請調過檢察官人力辦理相關食安黑心查緝作業。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:00:18.129714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:00:42.701143+08:00","text":"相比過往法務部高等檢察署曾派駐檢察官至行政院食品安全辦公室負責協調偵辦，並直接在食安管理業務、應變溝通及稽查取締發揮良好守護國人成果，已凸顯目前行政院食品安全辦公室應積極借鏡之需。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:00:43.001143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:01:00.144000+08:00","text":"爰此，特提案要求行政院食安辦公室限期完成請調檢察官進駐辦公之評估作業，並於一個月內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:01:00.444000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:01:05.015429+08:00","text":"廖偉翔　　陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　王育敏　　涂權吉四、","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:01:05.315429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:01:24.172571+08:00","text":"有鑑於按最新行政院食安辦公室官網所揭露資訊，目前僅有專職人力4員，並需肩負處理行政協調溝通、法規制度管理、風險預警應變、計畫資訊整合等跨部會業務。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:01:24.472571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:01:59.329714+08:00","text":"倘若加上兼任主任的員額及借調的3名人員，總計人力也才8員，相比最初2014年行政院食安辦公室甫成立配置20名專職人員相差甚遠（包括行政院編制內人員、各食品安全業務有關機關含經濟部、衛生福利部、法務部、農委會及財團法人借調人員、具專業約騁人員等），人事作業上實凸顯輕視食安之施政心態。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:01:59.629714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:02:15.629714+08:00","text":"爰此，特提案要求行政院食安辦公室限期完成人事員額配置檢討作業，並於一個月內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:02:15.929714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:02:20.501143+08:00","text":"廖偉翔　　陳菁徽　　蘇清泉　　王育敏　　涂權吉五、","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:02:20.801143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:02:55.372571+08:00","text":"按衛福部官方邊境檢驗不符合食品資訊查詢系統所揭露，自111年1月至113年1月有關「辣椒食品」受驗出含有蘇丹紅的重量，共計發布達10萬8,178公斤；然而，在本日「食安五環執行狀況及蘇丹紅事件處理之檢討專題報告（書面報告）」中，衛福部僅就111年至112年邊境驗出9批共5萬5,275公斤含蘇丹紅的「辣椒粉」給予國人交代。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:02:55.672571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:03:29.386857+08:00","text":"是以，考量官方所掌握的5萬5,275公斤含蘇丹紅辣椒粉，尚與整體10萬8,178公斤含蘇丹紅的辣椒食品間，有整整5萬2,903公斤違法黑數迄今流向不明，在欠缺清楚的說明交代之下，將嚴重影響我國食品安全，並侵損國人生命健康，爰要求限期於一周內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:03:29.686857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:04:12.829714+08:00","text":"食藥署違規發布紀錄(一)111年1月辣椒細片2萬4,000公斤(二)112年3月片裝紅辣椒200公斤(三)112年4月辣椒粉1萬5,000公斤(四)112年4月辣椒片1萬公斤(五)112年4月辣椒粉1萬1,000公斤(六)112年5月乾辣椒粉4,150公斤(七)112年5月乾辣椒粉1,000公斤(八)112年9月乾辣椒粉細3,600公斤(九)112年11月番椒紅椒粉2,875公斤(十)112年12月熱烘乾辣椒粉7,450公斤(十一)113年1月辣椒粉1萬5,207公斤(十二)辣椒粉1萬3,696公斤；以上驗出含蘇丹紅辣椒食品共計10萬8,178公斤。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:04:13.129714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:04:17.701143+08:00","text":"廖偉翔　　陳菁徽　　涂權吉　　蘇清泉　　王育敏六、","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:04:18.001143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:04:49.144000+08:00","text":"鑑於中國辣椒粉蘇丹紅案，雖然衛生福利部已禁止中國21家辣椒粉製造商／出口商的辣椒粉輸台，已影響國內食品產業發展，且引發民眾對食的安心，爰要求日後只要輸台產品檢出具食品安全疑慮且是我國環境部已公告之毒性或關注化學物質，一律立即禁止輸台。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:04:49.444000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:04:53.729714+08:00","text":"陳　瑩　　林月琴　　劉建國　　黃秀芳　　王正旭七、","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:04:54.029714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:05:18.029714+08:00","text":"有鑒於台中市衛生局1月15日前往國防部福利事業管理處所屬台中福利站，抽驗國產台糖安心豚梅花肉片（冷凍），檢驗結果發現含有不得檢出的瘦肉精西布特羅（Cimbuterol），檢出數值為0.002ppm。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:05:18.329714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:05:37.472571+08:00","text":"由於農業部已於109年9月7日依據《動物用藥品管理法》第五條第一項第一款之規定公告，乙型受體素（β-agonist）為禁止國內製造、調劑、輸入、輸出、販售、陳列之藥品。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:05:37.772571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:05:44.629714+08:00","text":"加上，食藥署已說此次台糖驗出西布特羅，不是實驗室污染。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:05:44.929714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:05:49.501143+08:00","text":"因此，國外進口豬肉是否含有西布特羅？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:05:49.801143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:06:16.086857+08:00","text":"受到外界質疑，台灣大學獸醫專業學院名譽教授賴秀穗曾表示，西布特羅毒性高出萊克多巴胺近千倍，若誤食過量恐導致心臟出問題，還會影響神經系統、呼吸系統，國際均禁止使用在食用動物上，包括牛、豬、雞、火雞等都不可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:06:16.386857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:06:18.101143+08:00","text":"引發人心惶惶。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:06:18.401143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:06:38.972571+08:00","text":"爰提案要求衛福部應報行政院食品安全辦公室，在未查出台糖西布特羅瘦肉精究竟如何出現的原因，完成跨部會調查前，以及立法院同意前，政府不開放含有瘦肉精豬肉進口。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:06:39.272571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:06:40.272571+08:00","text":"蘇清泉","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:06:40.572571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:06:43.429714+08:00","text":"涂權吉　　陳菁徽　　王育敏八、","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:06:43.729714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:06:56.301143+08:00","text":"食藥署提醒，人體服用過量的瘦肉精，可能會產生心跳加速、血管擴張、肌肉顫抖、焦慮及代謝異常等中毒症狀。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:06:56.601143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:07:30.886857+08:00","text":"台北市立聯合醫院陽明院區胸腔科內科醫師蘇一峰補充，除了引發心悸、心血管疾病、噁心、頭暈、手顫抖、血壓上升等症狀之外，瘦肉精也是體育禁藥（興奮劑），運動員若是誤食含有瘦肉精的肉品，可能會導致尿檢呈陽性反應，因此運動員、老人、孕婦、幼兒，以及心血管疾病患者，在食用上務必特別留意。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:07:31.186857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:07:55.186857+08:00","text":"有鑒於台中市衛生局1月15日前往國防部福利事業管理處所屬台中福利站，抽驗國產台糖安心豚梅花肉片（冷凍），檢驗結果發現含有不得檢出的瘦肉精西布特羅（Cimbuterol），檢出數值為0.002ppm。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:07:55.486857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:07:57.201143+08:00","text":"引起社會關注。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:07:57.501143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:10.644000+08:00","text":"爰提案要求衛福部應全面檢測市售國內外肉品，是否除了萊克多巴胺以外，尚含其它類型之乙型瘦體素（瘦肉精）。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:10.944000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:11.944000+08:00","text":"蘇清泉","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:12.244000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:14.815429+08:00","text":"涂權吉　　陳菁徽　　王育敏","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:15.115429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:17.972571+08:00","text":"現在處理這8項臨時提案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:18.272571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:23.415429+08:00","text":"針對第1案，請問行政單位與委員有沒有意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:23.715429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:28.286857+08:00","text":"委員好，我們是有一些文字要修正。請說。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:28.586857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:33.158286+08:00","text":"第一段的部分，「2%」之後是不是可以刪掉？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:33.458286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:47.744000+08:00","text":"因為我們現在要進行的食品追溯追蹤系統有法律上的規定，要是這裡這樣寫，看起來好像是很多業者都要做，其實不是。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:48.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:49.044000+08:00","text":"還有呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:49.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:50.344000+08:00","text":"就這個？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:50.644000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:52.072571+08:00","text":"再來是第2段。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:52.372571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:08:58.372571+08:00","text":"第2段第2行「資訊系統」後面，我們要加「食品資訊專櫃」。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:08:58.672571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:09:19.244000+08:00","text":"在第3行後面「業者並未及時更新」、再後面是逗點，之後的「難以發揮」等要劃掉，劃掉的是「難以發揮食品追溯追蹤之效果」，也就是這段劃掉，後面改為「無法及時提供產品資訊予消費者」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:09:19.544000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:09:28.972571+08:00","text":"「更新」之後的文字我念一下：「業者並未及時更新，無法及時提供產品資訊予消費者」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:09:29.272571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:09:31.272571+08:00","text":"「予消費者」是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:09:31.572571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:09:33.001143+08:00","text":"對，「予消費者」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:09:33.301143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:09:35.015429+08:00","text":"給消費者？對。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:09:35.315429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:09:36.315429+08:00","text":"還有呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:09:36.615429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:09:47.472571+08:00","text":"到第3段這裡，第3段是第2行，在「追溯追蹤管理資訊系統」之後，就加上「食品資訊專櫃」，接「之互相勾稽」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:09:47.772571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:09:58.915429+08:00","text":"「就」的部分，將「並就」改成「並輔導」，改為「並輔導食品業者提高產品資訊揭露之意願，並擬定輔導計畫」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:09:59.215429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:00.358286+08:00","text":"「之意願」啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:00.658286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:04.372571+08:00","text":"你的意思就是用尊重的方式嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:04.672571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:08.386857+08:00","text":"剛才林淑芬委員也問到這個啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:08.686857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:12.115429+08:00","text":"這是要業者自己上去登錄的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:12.415429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:16.701143+08:00","text":"所以現在沒有任何強制性就是了？對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:17.001143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:20.144000+08:00","text":"就看業者要登錄或不登錄？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:20.444000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:22.729714+08:00","text":"對，這個專櫃是這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:23.029714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:32.744000+08:00","text":"但是我們的追溯追蹤系統就屬於強制的，這裡的專櫃則屬於業者自己上去登錄的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:33.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:37.329714+08:00","text":"你是說專櫃這邊只能輔導，不能強制？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:37.629714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:40.201143+08:00","text":"對，我們會多鼓勵他們。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:40.501143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:44.215429+08:00","text":"目前、現行做法是這樣，是不是？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:44.515429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:46.515429+08:00","text":"好，那就修正通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:46.815429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:51.386857+08:00","text":"因為蘇委員路途比較遙遠，第7、8案先處理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:51.686857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:10:55.401143+08:00","text":"針對第7案，我們有修改一些文字。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:10:55.701143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:11:00.844000+08:00","text":"第6行最後「不是實驗室污染」改為「為個案事件」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:11:01.144000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:11:33.144000+08:00","text":"另外是後面從「因此」開始到最後，針對西布特羅的毒性，臺大賴秀穗教授已經澄清過了，當時他因為人在外面，沒有聽得很清楚，以為是另外一項乙型受體素，所以他後來澄清，對於西布特羅的毒性，其實目前大家都還沒有很清楚的研究，比較能證實的大概只有過敏的相關作用。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:11:33.444000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:11:46.872571+08:00","text":"所以是不是把這裡的污染改為個案事件，也就是把本來的「實驗室污染」改為「為個案事件」，再後面這一段就統統刪掉？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:11:47.172571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:11:54.315429+08:00","text":"所以，其實食藥署也認為這是個案事件，不是定調實驗室污染？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:11:54.615429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:11:57.472571+08:00","text":"你們沒有這樣講，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:11:57.772571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:02.629714+08:00","text":"你們沒有任何證據證明是實驗室污染嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:02.929714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:03.929714+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:04.229714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:11.086857+08:00","text":"就是很多因素都沒有辦法排除，但大家也找不到原因。對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:11.386857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:22.244000+08:00","text":"找不到原因就要說找不到原因，我覺得很大膽地說是實驗室污染是不對的，因為需要證據啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:22.544000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:23.544000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:23.844000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:26.986857+08:00","text":"你們要證據充分才能講嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:27.286857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:30.429714+08:00","text":"對，所以大家都努力找原因。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:30.729714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:35.015429+08:00","text":"所以你們也認為不要這樣寫？好啊！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:35.315429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:37.029714+08:00","text":"「為個案事件」？好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:37.329714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:12:44.186857+08:00","text":"後面這一段就劃掉、不要有，因為賴教授已經澄清過了，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:12:44.486857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:00.486857+08:00","text":"第2段是「爰提案要求衛福部」之後接「、農業部及行政院食品安全辦公室」，逗點之後是「應積極調查台糖西布特羅瘦肉精究竟如何出現的原因」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:00.786857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:08.501143+08:00","text":"再來是句點─對不起，是逗點，後面接「並儘速對外說明」，其他就劃掉。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:08.801143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:11.086857+08:00","text":"蘇委員，可以嗎？可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:11.386857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:16.529714+08:00","text":"好，蘇委員同意，那就按剛剛的文字修正通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:16.829714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:17.972571+08:00","text":"處理第8案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:18.272571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:37.701143+08:00","text":"第8案的第2段「爰提案要求衛福部應」後面劃掉，我們剛才跟委員提過文字修正，是「爰提案要求衛福部應持續強化抽驗市售國內外豬肉產品檢驗乙型受體素（含西布特羅）」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:38.001143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:43.715429+08:00","text":"你們是不是有一個panel，針對21項都有檢查？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:44.015429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:49.158286+08:00","text":"對，現在的法定方法就是檢查21項乙型受體素。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:49.458286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:51.172571+08:00","text":"可以喔，蘇委員？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:51.472571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:56.329714+08:00","text":"好，那就按剛才食藥署所提修正文字通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:56.629714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:13:57.772571+08:00","text":"處理第2案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:13:58.072571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:07.215429+08:00","text":"第2案第2段第1行這裡可以，第2行在「更為快速，後續查緝更為困難」之後就改為句點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:07.515429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:26.944000+08:00","text":"後面的文字我們希望可以改，改的是「請食藥署依食安法對於輸入之不合格產品情況較嚴重者，亦就該地區之其他製造商輸入相同產品，採取加速提升邊境查驗強度」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:27.244000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:28.244000+08:00","text":"後面呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:28.544000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:29.686857+08:00","text":"都沒有了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:29.986857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:31.415429+08:00","text":"對，就是句點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:31.715429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:33.715429+08:00","text":"那後面那一段呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:34.015429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:36.872571+08:00","text":"就是你們的預警機制呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:37.172571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:40.315429+08:00","text":"「提高問題食品下架速度」呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:40.615429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:14:48.901143+08:00","text":"針對這次蘇丹紅問題，其實剛剛委員都講你們的速度其實還滿緩慢的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:14:49.201143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:03.486857+08:00","text":"在去年第1例開始出現的時候，當時的示警看起來並沒有讓所有後市場或地方政府全面警醒可能要非常、加強重點查緝啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:03.786857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:10.929714+08:00","text":"所以這項提案還有後段這個目的，那部分都保留好了，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:11.229714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:13.801143+08:00","text":"後段文字還是保留。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:14.101143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:17.244000+08:00","text":"那就按照剛剛的修正通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:17.544000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:18.686857+08:00","text":"處理第3案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:18.986857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:23.272571+08:00","text":"報告召委，針對第3案，行政單位沒意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:23.572571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:24.572571+08:00","text":"沒意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:24.872571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:25.872571+08:00","text":"好，通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:26.172571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:27.315429+08:00","text":"處理第4案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:27.615429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:41.901143+08:00","text":"針對第4案，我們剛剛先跟廖委員討論過，關於食安辦的人力，建議第2行刪除「專職人力」4個字，也就是改為「目前僅有4員」，「並……」都沒改。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:42.201143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:45.629714+08:00","text":"第4行的「3名人員，」後加上「共計8人」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:45.929714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:15:50.215429+08:00","text":"下一句「總計人力也才8員」到「相比」劃掉。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2024-03-04T12:15:50.515429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:16:34.801143+08:00","text":"下一句「最初2014年行政院食安辦公室甫成立」這幾個字還在，但是「配置20名專職人員」這邊要修正，因為我們其實從當時的院內專職4人到現在都一樣、沒變，當時也沒有20員，是從各部會調進來，所以這樣寫不對，我們剛才跟委員說明過，所以這邊的「甫成立」之後改成「由相關部會及院內人員支援不同」，再來是「爰此，特提案要求行政院食安辦公室限期完成人事員額」，中間那邊都劃掉，一直到「爰此」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2024-03-04T12:16:35.101143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:16:41.958286+08:00","text":"「員額配置」後本來是「檢討作業」，建議「檢討」改成「評估」，再接「作業」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"許主任輔","start":"2024-03-04T12:16:42.258286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:16:53.401143+08:00","text":"然後，「並於」之後本來寫「一個月內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會」，這裡的「一個月」改成「三個月」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:16:53.701143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:16:59.415429+08:00","text":"廖委員，剛才有就修正跟你討論過，你同意嗎？可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:16:59.715429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:00.715429+08:00","text":"可以喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:01.015429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:04.729714+08:00","text":"好，那就按剛剛的文字修正通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:05.029714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:06.172571+08:00","text":"處理第5案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:06.472571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:11.044000+08:00","text":"針對第5案，我們剛才也跟廖委員溝通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:11.344000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:34.201143+08:00","text":"在第2段的部分，有一些數據其實目前不是很清楚，所以那些數據劃掉，我念一下：「是以，考量官方所掌握」─後面的數據就劃掉，接「含蘇丹紅辣椒粉流向不明，將嚴重影響我國食品安全」，中間的文字劃掉。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:34.501143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:45.644000+08:00","text":"「並侵損……」等文字劃掉，接「爰要求限期於一周內向本院社會福利及衛生環境委員會提交書面報告」。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:45.944000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:46.944000+08:00","text":"可以喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:47.244000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:49.529714+08:00","text":"好，這一案修正通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:49.829714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:50.972571+08:00","text":"處理第6案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳署長秀梅","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:51.272571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:52.986857+08:00","text":"第6案照案辦理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:53.286857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:54.286857+08:00","text":"好，通過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:54.586857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:55.729714+08:00","text":"處理完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:56.029714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:17:59.172571+08:00","text":"中午不休息，持續進行詢答。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:17:59.472571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:18:04.329714+08:00","text":"便當已經發到桌上，大家可以自行用便當。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T12:18:04.629714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T12:18:06.915429+08:00","text":"請陳委員雪生發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}