{"error":false,"id":["149306"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149306,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149306","日期":"2024-03-04","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-04T11:17:55+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-04T11:32:01+08:00","影片長度":"00:14:06","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ad9f873b941d2ddd896ae9bc9ade19a74df0e2384efaf28bf8ba9b0039caa7a67c50eb4124c018df5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐欣瑩","委員發言時間":"11:17:55 - 11:32:01","會議時間":"2024-03-04T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請海洋委員會主任委員、大陸委員會主任委員、國防部及海軍司令部參謀長就「金門撞船案:翻船執法過程及後續處理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":733,"blocks":[["徐委員欣瑩：（11時18分）主席、各位委員、各位官員，還有各位媒體，大家好。首先本席想請海委會管主委。"],["主席：有請管主委。"],["管主任委員碧玲：徐委員好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：主委好。首先本席想先就教育部重編的國語辭典修訂本來向您做一個簡單的教育，「撞」的其中一個意思就是碰擊，例如撞車，所以今天我們的題目金門撞船事件，這個碰撞的意思就是碰觸、撞擊。剛剛您在答詢牛煦庭委員的時候你也一直講碰觸，所以撞跟碰撞都是一種描述客觀事實的動詞，如果撞帶有故意的意思，那本席想請教，2020年1月2日空軍黑鷹直升機在新北烏來山區撞山失事，是故意的嗎？八八水災漂流木撞擊漁船致受災專案救助計畫，難道漂流木有意識，難道是故意的嗎？所以希望管主委，包含海委會、海巡單位不要在文字上去做過多的解釋。","其次，在海商法第三條，下列船舶除因碰撞外，不適用本法之規定，它也是用碰撞；海事報告規則第一條，本規則所稱海事，指船舶沉沒、擱淺、碰撞。所以這個部分希望管主委可以去查，不要自己想、自己對。","再來，本席也要再一次來譴責您擅改我們召委的專案報告題目，其實不只是不尊重立法院、不只是藐視國會，您更是毀憲亂政，是毀壞我們憲法的現行犯！所以本席還是在這裡要求您道歉認錯，可以嗎？現在！"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，這件事情發展到現在，我想……"],["徐委員欣瑩：停！你不用回答，你願不願意道歉認錯？"],["管主任委員碧玲：其實委員，從昨天我公開對社會……"],["徐委員欣瑩：道歉認錯！"],["管主任委員碧玲：我昨天……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你昨天發簡訊我們都看到……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我說太多次了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你說失禮……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我說太多次了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：但是今天的題目還是用你自己的定義。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我幾經斟酌兩個價值我必須要平衡的時候，我所致的意就是用這樣的方式來表達。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請暫停、請暫停、請暫停！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以你昨天傳給我們的高金召委，你說失禮……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個之前就已經對外、新聞都……"],["徐委員欣瑩：結果今天的報告還是用你的這個題目，完全的、真的藐視國會，毀憲亂政。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我接受所有各種的指責。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，接下來本席要掌握時間，我們非常捍衛海巡的立場，剛剛海巡署也這樣說、您也這樣說，真正的捍衛就是要拿出證據、說明真相，所以本席要再次請教，檢方是否有查扣兩艘船的船舶軌跡資料，有沒有？"],["管主任委員碧玲：交給檢方的資料我們請分署長來說明……"],["徐委員欣瑩：等一下、等一下！我沒有要請分署長。"],["管主任委員碧玲：那是……"],["徐委員欣瑩：您身為海委會主委，發生這麼大的事……"],["管主任委員碧玲：是，委員……"],["徐委員欣瑩：您應該知道大陸的漁船跟我們1051艇的船舶軌跡資料，我們臺灣這邊雷達資料或是兩艘船有沒有船舶軌跡資料、有沒有交給地檢署？本席就問這個問題。"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟我報告的是有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：有。"],["管主任委員碧玲：目前分署長跟我報告的是有。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我現在要跟您確認，兩艘船都有嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：一起都交給地檢署、都交給地檢署。"],["徐委員欣瑩：兩艘船都有，好！各位，兩艘船的軌跡都有，我們是不是可以就軌跡的比對就知道到底有沒有碰撞？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，檢察官會根據船本身的事證……"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，當然檢察官有檢察官認定，但是……"],["管主任委員碧玲：還有軌跡也好、還有筆錄也好，檢察官有非常非常多的事證可以去統合研判。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，對，當然、當然。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們大公無私、不偏不倚。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對。"],["管主任委員碧玲：所以委員我能不能說明？"],["徐委員欣瑩：不用、不用，不用你說明。"],["管主任委員碧玲：剛剛署長到今天……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我現在要捍衛我們海巡弟兄的立場，第一個，既然有船舶軌跡資料，我們就可以比對，這個部分就可以推翻你們一直擅改我們召委的題目，你就是強詞奪理，這第一個；第二個，本席想請教，媒體報導兩船接近，巡邏艇長下令登船檢查，中國快艇突然甩尾急轉、不讓海巡人員登船是否是事實？"],["管主任委員碧玲：所有的案情說明，委員，為什麼今天一直到現在我們署長才把剛剛講的三個原因說出來……"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有，好，OK，請暫停、請暫停！"],["管主任委員碧玲：因為從頭到尾所有的案情……"],["徐委員欣瑩：如果不暫停，我請主席暫停時間！"],["管主任委員碧玲：所有的案情都應該由檢察官來還原……"],["徐委員欣瑩：暫停時間！"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：我沒有要他講這個。"],["主席：好，非常謝謝……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，謝謝，請暫停。"],["主席：請主委尊重一下委員的質詢。"],["徐委員欣瑩：剛剛我也有在聽，牛委員質詢的時候我們署長說的，一再地他只是在說明什麼？船為什麼會翻，但是我們現在要確認的是，當我們要下令登船檢查的時候，到底是不是中國快艇突然甩尾急轉、不讓海巡人員登船？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我從來就是一個態度……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以造成不小心碰撞或是不小心怎麼樣，然後才導致翻覆，你們是一直地強調為什麼會翻覆，我剛剛有聽，我聽得很清楚，所以不用再講，現在我的問題就是，是不是我們要下令登船檢查的時候，中國快艇突然甩尾急轉，這點你們海巡署應該早就知道這個情況，到底是不是？是否屬實？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我請委員能不能支持，我們冷靜、靜待司法調查的結果。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以，好，OK……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我一直都說，我們一定要對各種說法不偏不倚、大公無私。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那這一點到這邊，這樣我瞭解。"],["管主任委員碧玲：讓檢察官來還原真相，這是我的態度。"],["徐委員欣瑩：其實你的回復我們大家就知道，應該就是如此嘛。再來，有人說兩岸的默契，只要越界船駛離禁限水域，我們海巡人員就會返回執勤地區，當時其實是大陸快艇更深入了我方的海域，所以才發生追捕事件，這個情況是否屬實？應該是吧？"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：是，對。"],["管主任委員碧玲：在禁止水域內。"],["徐委員欣瑩：本席要問，當天指揮CP-1051追緝作業的是艇長還是岸上指揮？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，這個事情……"],["徐委員欣瑩：你就回答，我這個是選擇題，那一天到底誰指揮這個追緝作業？是誰？"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們在雷情上發現的時候就會有調度，然後整個的過程當然是船上的艇長，我是不是請我們分署長說明？"],["徐委員欣瑩：不用、不用，分署長不用，會浪費我的時間，本席為什麼問這一題？主委，你不用回答，本席為什麼問這一題？因為現在我們看到媒體報導，檢方以過失致人於死的這種法律責任、朝向這方面偵辦……"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員、委員，這是一個司法上……"],["徐委員欣瑩：當然我不希望，因為我在挺我們海巡人員……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這個最後……我們目前還是他字案。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不能讓海巡人員去擔這個法律責任。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以我們要知道是誰下的指令，按照剛剛我們主委所說的……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們岸際通報……"],["徐委員欣瑩：那是我們艇長……"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，我們岸際通報的時候，巡防區就會調度，調度以後整個執法的過程……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以有艇長、也有岸上指揮，都有。"],["管主任委員碧玲：整個執法的過程不會去指揮他說，你這個是要驅離還……沒有那個……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK，我看到分署長……我們的署長已經點頭了。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們請分署長來說明。"],["徐委員欣瑩：請暫停，沒有，署長已經點頭了……"],["管主任委員碧玲：沒有，委員……"],["徐委員欣瑩：也就是……有、有、有，他點頭了！"],["主席：署長要不要正式上來回答一下？您點頭了。"],["管主任委員碧玲：我們為了瞭解真相……"],["主席：我們是不是請委員請署長上去點頭？"],["管主任委員碧玲：對，我想還是請分署長說明，好嗎？"],["徐委員欣瑩：不用。"],["主席：不用，好。"],["徐委員欣瑩：啊，要站上來點頭，因為我看他站在那邊。"],["主席：因為他剛剛站在旁邊對於我們欣瑩委員點頭，謝謝。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，OK，署長，我沒有要你回答，我剛剛在講的時候，當天指揮CP-1051追緝作業的時候……"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，不是從頭到尾一個長官在指揮喔，那是……"],["主席：來，請署長。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對、對、對，沒有啊！"],["管主任委員碧玲：那不是喔、那不是喔……"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以這中間一定有互通嘛，所以我們的艇長還有岸上指揮，大家就狀況然後來下令，所以那一天應該不是只有單一的指揮。"],["周副主任委員美伍：當然，這是一個連續動作。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，好，OK，這樣就可以了。"],["周副主任委員美伍：從勤指中心下達到海巡隊當天的駐隊長官，也就是副隊長……"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，好。"],["周副主任委員美伍：然後再由副隊長下達到艦艇本身。"],["徐委員欣瑩：瞭解、瞭解，所以這中間的責任……"],["周副主任委員美伍：這個流程是一個連續……"],["徐委員欣瑩：我們不希望……"],["周副主任委員美伍：勤指中心也會直接下令給1051。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，所以這個部分我們要瞭解，我們在挺海巡的弟兄。"],["周副主任委員美伍：是。"],["徐委員欣瑩：OK，好，現在海委會堅持只有道義責任，那……"],["管主任委員碧玲：我從來沒有說……"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們一直在追逐真相。"],["徐委員欣瑩：沒有喔，慰問金不是賠償是否屬實？"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們一直希望司法能夠把這個真相真實地呈現，這個就是為什麼我們一直沒有對外說明的原因，我們不希望影響司法的判斷。"],["徐委員欣瑩：對，OK，好，我們當然希望兼顧偵查不公開、兩岸互信、臺灣人民權益保障和未來兩岸協同執法繼續推動，我們還是希望海委會要釐清事實、向社會完整說明。"],["周副主任委員美伍：一定。"],["徐委員欣瑩：今天在報告的時候管主委有提到，因為現在兩岸雙方都互不信任，如果送請公正專業的第三方團體機構鑑定，管主委是否同意？"],["周副主任委員美伍：是，我們也希望這樣做……"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，海巡署會不會主動……"],["周副主任委員美伍：同時檢調已經在這樣做了。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，專業的第三方，不是臺灣、也不是對岸喔。"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們現在的專業第三方是由檢調來決定，他去請。"],["徐委員欣瑩：所以是我們臺灣這邊，其實……"],["周副主任委員美伍：我不知道是哪邊。"],["徐委員欣瑩：你這樣怎麼讓大家可以相信？"],["管主任委員碧玲：委員，這是我國的司法制度。"],["徐委員欣瑩：好，那海巡署所以你們不是請……"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們非常希望如此。"],["徐委員欣瑩：不是請公正的第三方……"],["周副主任委員美伍：我們希望請公正的第三方。"],["徐委員欣瑩：非臺灣、非大陸。"],["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非常謝謝 請所有尊重一下委員的質詢剛剛我也有在聽 牛委員質詢的時候我們署長說的 一再的他只是在說明什麼 船為什麼會翻但是我們現在要確認的是"},{"start":385.665,"end":410.709,"text":"當我們要這個下令登船檢查的時候那到底是不是中國快艇突然甩尾急轉不讓海巡人員登船所以造成不小心碰撞或是不小心怎麼樣然後才導致翻覆你們是一直的強調為什麼會翻覆我剛剛有聽我聽得很清楚所以不用再講現在我的問題就是是不是"},{"start":412.148,"end":413.889,"text":"其實你的回覆我們大家就知道那應該就是如此嘛"},{"start":441.989,"end":464.454,"text":"那再來我們這個有人說兩岸的默契只要這個船越界船使離境線水域我們海巡人員就會返回執勤地區那當時其實是大陸快艇他更深入了我方的海域所以才發生追捕事件那這個情況是否屬實"},{"start":465.674,"end":468.999,"text":"本席要問當天指揮CP1051追緝作業的是庭長還是岸上指揮?"},{"start":480.776,"end":484.298,"text":"主委你不用回答本席為什麼問這一題因為現在我們看到媒體報導"},{"start":509.89,"end":524.493,"text":"檢方他以過失致人於死的這種法律責任朝向這方面申辦當然我們不希望因為我在庭我們海巡人員不能讓海巡人員去擔這個法律責任所以我們要知道"},{"start":524.893,"end":548.762,"text":"是誰下的指令所以按照剛剛我們主委所說的那是我們庭長委員我們按記通報的時候循環區就會調度調度以後整個執法的過程所以有庭長也有按上指揮整個執法的過程不會去指揮他說你這個是要提離還是沒有那個我們請教署長說明一下請站你沒有署長已經點頭了"},{"start":553.325,"end":554.046,"text":"徐欣瑩,我剛剛在講的時候"},{"start":570.048,"end":587.415,"text":"當天指揮CP1051追緝作業的時候,委員請...不是從頭到尾一個長官在指揮嗎?那是...對對對有啊,所以這中間一定有互通嘛,然後所以我們的庭長還有岸上指揮,大家就狀況,然後來下令,所以那一天應該是..."},{"start":588.675,"end":588.815,"text":"徐欣瑩"},{"start":619.555,"end":625.678,"text":"我們一直希望司法能夠把這個真相真實的呈現這個就是為什麼我們一直沒有對外說明的原因我們不希望影響司法的判斷"},{"start":634.741,"end":653.522,"text":"我們當然希望我們兼顧偵查不公開兩岸互信台灣人民權益保障和未來兩岸協同執法繼續推動那我們還是希望海委會要釐清事實向社會完整說明那今天在報告的時候這個管主委有提到"},{"start":654.503,"end":668.287,"text":"因為現在呢,我們雙方,兩岸雙方都會不信任,如果送請公正專業的第三方團體機構鑑定,管主委是否同意?是,我們也希望這樣做。"},{"start":672.308,"end":672.568,"text":"海巡署"},{"start":691.576,"end":700.963,"text":"我們非常希望不是請公正的第三方我們希望請公正的第三方非台灣非大陸都可以我們都可以因為這是一個我們已經請"},{"start":706.087,"end":706.567,"text":"最後本席要說"},{"start":726.994,"end":747.628,"text":"管主委,你位高權重,出入有隨乎,安全無虞但是,現在我們這個金門撞船事件,造成我們金門海域附近民間的漁會跟漁民朋友只能尋求自保"},{"start":748.268,"end":749.749,"text":"報告委員,我必須要強調,我們依然在執法"},{"start":770.956,"end":773.078,"text":"我們希望你們繼續的執法合法我們為海巡鼓掌但是如果"},{"start":788.67,"end":817.335,"text":"未來檢察官起訴那我想請問我們管主委如果到時候真的有這種過失致死那您要如何治保你會不會辭職我今天所說的第一點已經非常的清楚本案有待於我們國家的司法制度來釐清您經責任勿萬勿眾這是我們的責任對當然我們大家都希望而且我們希望是沒有擦槍走火"},{"start":817.955,"end":839.102,"text":"所以我們希望管主委您一定要為我們這個整個事件你要想的周全你不要再如此的這個態度強硬而且我們希望能夠為兩岸﹗我們的順利無以復加我們真的呼籲大家能不能一起呼籲對方也讓這件事情回歸人道好也謝謝管主委謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:18:16.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:18:19.974000+08:00","text":"主席、各位委員、各位官員，還有各位媒體，大家好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:18:21.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:18:24.036000+08:00","text":"首先本席想請海委會管主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:18:24.036000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:18:27.085667+08:00","text":"有請管主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:18:27.085667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:18:30.135333+08:00","text":"徐委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:18:30.135333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:18:33.185000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:18:33.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:19:03.161000+08:00","text":"首先本席想先就教育部重編的國語辭典修訂本來向您做一個簡單的教育，「撞」的其中一個意思就是碰擊，例如撞車，所以今天我們的題目金門撞船事件，這個碰撞的意思就是碰觸、撞擊。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:19:03.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:19:33.191000+08:00","text":"剛剛您在答詢牛煦庭委員的時候你也一直講碰觸，所以撞跟碰撞都是一種描述客觀事實的動詞，如果撞帶有故意的意思，那本席想請教，2020年1月2日空軍黑鷹直升機在新北烏來山區撞山失事，是故意的嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:19:33.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:19:42.955000+08:00","text":"八八水災漂流木撞擊漁船致受災專案救助計畫，難道漂流木有意識，難道是故意的嗎？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:19:42.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:19:53.916000+08:00","text":"所以希望管主委，包含海委會、海巡單位不要在文字上去做過多的解釋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:19:53.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:20:11.529000+08:00","text":"其次，在海商法第三條，下列船舶除因碰撞外，不適用本法之規定，它也是用碰撞；海事報告規則第一條，本規則所稱海事，指船舶沉沒、擱淺、碰撞。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:20:12.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:20:19.719000+08:00","text":"所以這個部分希望管主委可以去查，不要自己想、自己對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:20:19.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:20:42.151000+08:00","text":"再來，本席也要再一次來譴責您擅改我們召委的專案報告題目，其實不只是不尊重立法院、不只是藐視國會，您更是毀憲亂政，是毀壞我們憲法的現行犯！","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:20:43.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:20:51.159000+08:00","text":"所以本席還是在這裡要求您道歉認錯，可以嗎？現在！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:20:51.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:20:54.840000+08:00","text":"委員，這件事情發展到現在，我想……停！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:20:55.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:20:59.301000+08:00","text":"你不用回答，你願不願意道歉認錯？","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:20:59.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:02.362000+08:00","text":"其實委員，從昨天我公開對社會……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:02.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:02.942000+08:00","text":"道歉認錯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:02.942000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:03.942000+08:00","text":"我昨天……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:02.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:03.062000+08:00","text":"你昨天發簡訊我們都看到……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:03.062000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:04.062000+08:00","text":"我說太多次了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:04.062000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:05.062000+08:00","text":"你說失禮……","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:05.062000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:06.062000+08:00","text":"我說太多次了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:06.062000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:07.062000+08:00","text":"但是今天的題目還是用你自己的定義。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:06.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:10.427000+08:00","text":"我幾經斟酌兩個價值我必須要平衡的時候，我所致的意就是用這樣的方式來表達。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:10.427000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:11.427000+08:00","text":"請暫停、請暫停、請暫停！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:10.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:13.349000+08:00","text":"所以你昨天傳給我們的高金召委，你說失禮……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:13.349000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:14.349000+08:00","text":"這個之前就已經對外、新聞都……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:13.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:14.070000+08:00","text":"結果今天的報告還是用你的這個題目，完全的、真的藐視國會，毀憲亂政。","quality":0.552},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:14.070000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:21:40.537000+08:00","text":"我接受所有各種的指責。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:21:40.537000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:07.004000+08:00","text":"OK，接下來本席要掌握時間，我們非常捍衛海巡的立場，剛剛海巡署也這樣說、您也這樣說，真正的捍衛就是要拿出證據、說明真相，所以本席要再次請教，檢方是否有查扣兩艘船的船舶軌跡資料，有沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:07.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:10.067000+08:00","text":"交給檢方的資料我們請分署長來說明……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:10.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:11.288000+08:00","text":"等一下、等一下！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:11.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:13.070000+08:00","text":"我沒有要請分署長。那是……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:13.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:16.553000+08:00","text":"您身為海委會主委，發生這麼大的事……","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:16.553000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:19.900000+08:00","text":"是，委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:19.900000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:23.247000+08:00","text":"您應該知道大陸的漁船跟我們1051艇的船舶軌跡資料，我們臺灣這邊雷達資料或是兩艘船有沒有船舶軌跡資料、有沒有交給地檢署？","quality":0.094},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:23.247000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:26.594000+08:00","text":"本席就問這個問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:26.594000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:29.941000+08:00","text":"跟我報告的是有。有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:29.941000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:33.288000+08:00","text":"目前分署長跟我報告的是有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:33.288000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:36.635000+08:00","text":"所以我現在要跟您確認，兩艘船都有嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:36.635000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:39.982000+08:00","text":"一起都交給地檢署、都交給地檢署。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:39.982000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:43.329000+08:00","text":"兩艘船都有，好！","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:43.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:50.798000+08:00","text":"各位，兩艘船的軌跡都有，我們是不是可以就軌跡的比對就知道到底有沒有碰撞？","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:51.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:55.884000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，檢察官會根據船本身的事證……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:55.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:56.884000+08:00","text":"對，當然檢察官有檢察官認定，但是……","quality":0.214},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:56.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:57.884000+08:00","text":"還有軌跡也好、還有筆錄也好，檢察官有非常非常多的事證可以去統合研判。","quality":0.065},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:57.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:58.884000+08:00","text":"OK，對，當然、當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:58.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:22:59.884000+08:00","text":"我們大公無私、不偏不倚。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:59.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:00.884000+08:00","text":"所以委員我能不能說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:23:00.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:01.884000+08:00","text":"不用、不用，不用你說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:23:01.884000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:02.884000+08:00","text":"剛剛署長到今天……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:22:58.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:23.888000+08:00","text":"我現在要捍衛我們海巡弟兄的立場，第一個，既然有船舶軌跡資料，我們就可以比對，這個部分就可以推翻你們一直擅改我們召委的題目，你就是強詞奪理，這第一個；第二個，本席想請教，媒體報導兩船接近，巡邏艇長下令登船檢查，中國快艇突然甩尾急轉、不讓海巡人員登船是否是事實？","quality":0.569},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:23:48.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:56.974000+08:00","text":"所有的案情說明，委員，為什麼今天一直到現在我們署長才把剛剛講的三個原因說出來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:23:56.974000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:57.974000+08:00","text":"沒有，好，OK，請暫停、請暫停！","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:23:56.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:58.096000+08:00","text":"因為從頭到尾所有的案情……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:23:58.096000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:59.096000+08:00","text":"如果不暫停，我請主席暫停時間！","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:23:58.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:23:59.858000+08:00","text":"所有的案情都應該由檢察官來還原……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:23:59.858000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:02.411000+08:00","text":"暫停時間！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:02.411000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:04.964000+08:00","text":"我沒有要他講這個。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:04.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:06.086000+08:00","text":"好，非常謝謝……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:06.086000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:07.086000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，請暫停。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:07.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:09.190000+08:00","text":"請主委尊重一下委員的質詢。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:09.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:16.019000+08:00","text":"剛剛我也有在聽，牛委員質詢的時候我們署長說的，一再地他只是在說明什麼？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:16.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:30.915000+08:00","text":"船為什麼會翻，但是我們現在要確認的是，當我們要下令登船檢查的時候，到底是不是中國快艇突然甩尾急轉、不讓海巡人員登船？","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:30.915000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:31.915000+08:00","text":"我從來就是一個態度……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:31.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:45.689000+08:00","text":"所以造成不小心碰撞或是不小心怎麼樣，然後才導致翻覆，你們是一直地強調為什麼會翻覆，我剛剛有聽，我聽得很清楚，所以不用再講，現在我的問題就是，是不是我們要下令登船檢查的時候，中國快艇突然甩尾急轉，這點你們海巡署應該早就知道這個情況，到底是不是？","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:45.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:46.689000+08:00","text":"是否屬實？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:46.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:47.689000+08:00","text":"我請委員能不能支持，我們冷靜、靜待司法調查的結果。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:47.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:48.689000+08:00","text":"所以，好，OK……","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:48.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:49.689000+08:00","text":"我一直都說，我們一定要對各種說法不偏不倚、大公無私。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:49.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:50.689000+08:00","text":"好，那這一點到這邊，這樣我瞭解。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:50.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:51.689000+08:00","text":"讓檢察官來還原真相，這是我的態度。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:24:47.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:24:48.869000+08:00","text":"其實你的回復我們大家就知道，應該就是如此嘛。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:17.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:39.454000+08:00","text":"再來，有人說兩岸的默契，只要越界船駛離禁限水域，我們海巡人員就會返回執勤地區，當時其實是大陸快艇更深入了我方的海域，所以才發生追捕事件，這個情況是否屬實？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:39.454000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:40.454000+08:00","text":"應該是吧？是。是，對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:40.454000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:41.454000+08:00","text":"在禁止水域內。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:40.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:43.999000+08:00","text":"本席要問，當天指揮CP-1051追緝作業的是艇長還是岸上指揮？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:43.999000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:46.943250+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這個事情……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:46.943250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:49.887500+08:00","text":"你就回答，我這個是選擇題，那一天到底誰指揮這個追緝作業？是誰？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:49.887500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:52.831750+08:00","text":"我們在雷情上發現的時候就會有調度，然後整個的過程當然是船上的艇長，我是不是請我們分署長說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:52.831750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:55.776000+08:00","text":"不用、不用，分署長不用，會浪費我的時間，本席為什麼問這一題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:55.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:25:58.017000+08:00","text":"主委，你不用回答，本席為什麼問這一題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:25:58.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:31.660000+08:00","text":"因為現在我們看到媒體報導，檢方以過失致人於死的這種法律責任、朝向這方面偵辦……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:31.660000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:32.660000+08:00","text":"委員、委員，這是一個司法上……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:31.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:34.765000+08:00","text":"當然我不希望，因為我在挺我們海巡人員……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:34.765000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:35.765000+08:00","text":"這個最後……我們目前還是他字案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:34.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:38.231000+08:00","text":"不能讓海巡人員去擔這個法律責任。是","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:38.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:45.075000+08:00","text":"所以我們要知道是誰下的指令，按照剛剛我們主委所說的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:45.075000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:46.075000+08:00","text":"我們岸際通報……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:45.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:49.097000+08:00","text":"那是我們艇長……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:49.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:55.599000+08:00","text":"委員，我們岸際通報的時候，巡防區就會調度，調度以後整個執法的過程……","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:55.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:26:58+08:00","text":"所以有艇長、也有岸上指揮，都有。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:26:58+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:01.121000+08:00","text":"整個執法的過程不會去指揮他說，你這個是要驅離還……沒有那個……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:01.121000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:02.121000+08:00","text":"好，OK，我看到分署長……我們的署長已經點頭了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:01.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:02.422000+08:00","text":"我們請分署長來說明。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:03.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:03.742000+08:00","text":"請暫停，沒有，署長已經點頭了……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:03.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:04.742000+08:00","text":"沒有，委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:04.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:05.742000+08:00","text":"也就是……有、有、有，他點頭了！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:05.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:06.742000+08:00","text":"署長要不要正式上來回答一下？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:06.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:07.742000+08:00","text":"您點頭了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:07.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:08.742000+08:00","text":"我們為了瞭解真相……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:08.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:09.742000+08:00","text":"我們是不是請委員請署長上去點頭？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:09.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:10.742000+08:00","text":"對，我想還是請分署長說明，好嗎？不用。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:10.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:11.742000+08:00","text":"不用，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:11.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:12.742000+08:00","text":"啊，要站上來點頭，因為我看他站在那邊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:12.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:13.742000+08:00","text":"因為他剛剛站在旁邊對於我們欣瑩委員點頭，謝謝。","quality":0.095},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:08.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:27.969000+08:00","text":"好，OK，署長，我沒有要你回答，我剛剛在講的時候，當天指揮CP-1051追緝作業的時候……","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:28.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:31.771000+08:00","text":"委員，不是從頭到尾一個長官在指揮喔，那是……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:31.771000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:32.771000+08:00","text":"來，請署長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:32.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:32.571000+08:00","text":"對、對、對，沒有啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:32.571000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:33.571000+08:00","text":"那不是喔、那不是喔……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:32.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:42.395000+08:00","text":"所以這中間一定有互通嘛，所以我們的艇長還有岸上指揮，大家就狀況然後來下令，所以那一天應該不是只有單一的指揮。","quality":0.82},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:42.395000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:44.692143+08:00","text":"當然，這是一個連續動作。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:44.692143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:46.989286+08:00","text":"對，好，OK，這樣就可以了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:46.989286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:49.286429+08:00","text":"從勤指中心下達到海巡隊當天的駐隊長官，也就是副隊長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:49.286429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:51.583571+08:00","text":"OK，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:51.583571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:53.880714+08:00","text":"然後再由副隊長下達到艦艇本身。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:53.880714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:56.177857+08:00","text":"瞭解、瞭解，所以這中間的責任……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:56.177857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:27:58.475000+08:00","text":"這個流程是一個連續……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:27:58.475000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:00.772143+08:00","text":"我們不希望……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:00.772143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:03.069286+08:00","text":"勤指中心也會直接下令給1051。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:03.069286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:05.366429+08:00","text":"對，所以這個部分我們要瞭解，我們在挺海巡的弟兄。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:05.366429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:07.663571+08:00","text":"OK，好，現在海委會堅持只有道義責任，那……","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:07.663571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:09.960714+08:00","text":"我從來沒有說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:09.960714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:12.257857+08:00","text":"我們一直在追逐真相。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:12.257857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:14.555000+08:00","text":"沒有喔，慰問金不是賠償是否屬實？","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:14.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:20.678000+08:00","text":"我們一直希望司法能夠把這個真相真實地呈現，這個就是為什麼我們一直沒有對外說明的原因，我們不希望影響司法的判斷。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:29.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:28:44.197000+08:00","text":"對，OK，好，我們當然希望兼顧偵查不公開、兩岸互信、臺灣人民權益保障和未來兩岸協同執法繼續推動，我們還是希望海委會要釐清事實、向社會完整說明。一定。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:28:45.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:01.606000+08:00","text":"今天在報告的時候管主委有提到，因為現在兩岸雙方都互不信任，如果送請公正專業的第三方團體機構鑑定，管主委是否同意？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:02.067000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:03.267000+08:00","text":"是，我們也希望這樣做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:07.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:07.548000+08:00","text":"好，海巡署會不會主動……","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:07.548000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:09.926500+08:00","text":"同時檢調已經在這樣做了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:09.926500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:12.305000+08:00","text":"好，專業的第三方，不是臺灣、也不是對岸喔。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:12.305000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:14.683500+08:00","text":"我們現在的專業第三方是由檢調來決定，他去請。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:14.683500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:17.062000+08:00","text":"所以是我們臺灣這邊，其實……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:17.062000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:19.440500+08:00","text":"我不知道是哪邊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:19.440500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:21.819000+08:00","text":"你這樣怎麼讓大家可以相信？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:21.819000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:24.197500+08:00","text":"委員，這是我國的司法制度。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:24.197500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:26.576000+08:00","text":"好，那海巡署所以你們不是請……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:26.576000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:27.537000+08:00","text":"我們非常希望如此。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:28.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:30.319000+08:00","text":"不是請公正的第三方……","quality":1},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:30.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:32.361000+08:00","text":"我們希望請公正的第三方。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:32.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:33.882000+08:00","text":"非臺灣、非大陸。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:33.882000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:34.262000+08:00","text":"都可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:34.262000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:35.262000+08:00","text":"都可以，好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:34.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:35.803000+08:00","text":"我們都可以，因為這是一個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:35.803000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:36.859800+08:00","text":"海巡署會不會主動提出申請？","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:36.859800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:37.916600+08:00","text":"海巡署會不會主動提出申請？","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:37.916600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:38.973400+08:00","text":"我們已經請檢調單位能夠請公正的第三方把這樣子的一個海上的物理、海事的現象跟物理的碰撞，或者是任何一個擦撞，或者是水流的影響，或者是船速的影響，或者是船型的影響……","quality":0.068},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:38.973400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:40.030200+08:00","text":"好，OK，請你暫停、請你暫停。","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:40.030200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:29:41.087000+08:00","text":"各種狀況，它會依據專家來衡定這個結果。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:29:41.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:22.608000+08:00","text":"最後本席要說，管主委，你位高權重，出入有隨扈，安全無虞，但是現在的金門撞船事件，造成金門海域附近的民間區漁會跟漁民朋友只能尋求自保，所以我們看到……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:22.608000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:23.608000+08:00","text":"委員，我想這個可能……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:23.608000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:24.608000+08:00","text":"我們看到……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:24.608000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:25.608000+08:00","text":"我不認為這是實情。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:25.608000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:26.608000+08:00","text":"看到金門區漁會的資訊宣導，有沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:26.608000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:27.608000+08:00","text":"中國海警18日宣布加強海上執法……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:27.608000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:28.608000+08:00","text":"這不是事實。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:28.608000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:29.608000+08:00","text":"兩岸處於敏感時刻……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:23.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:23.788000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我必須要強調……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:23.788000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:24.788000+08:00","text":"請漁民朋友切勿越界作業……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:24.788000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:25.788000+08:00","text":"我們要強調……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:25.788000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:26.788000+08:00","text":"所以本席想說的是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:23.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:24.729000+08:00","text":"我們依然在執法……","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:24.729000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:30.035750+08:00","text":"本席想說的是，我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:30.035750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:35.342500+08:00","text":"我們日常的勤務從來沒有一天停止過，從事發到現在，我們沒有一天停止勤務過……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:35.342500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:40.649250+08:00","text":"對、對、對、對……","quality":0},{"speaker":"周副主任委員美伍","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:40.649250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:45.956000+08:00","text":"同時我們不斷地提醒漁民……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:45.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:30:46.697000+08:00","text":"我們希望你們繼續的執法合法。是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:30:46.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:14.672000+08:00","text":"我們為海巡鼓掌，但是如果未來檢察官起訴，我想請問我們的管主委，如果到時候真的有這種過失致死，您要如何自保？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:14.672000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:15.672000+08:00","text":"我今天所說的第一點……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:15.672000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:16.672000+08:00","text":"你會不會辭職？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:16.672000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:17.672000+08:00","text":"我今天所說的第一點……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:15.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:18.193000+08:00","text":"你會不會辭職？","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:18.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:24.754000+08:00","text":"我今天所說的第一點已經非常地清楚，本案有待我們國家的司法制度來釐清……","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:24.754000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:26.034000+08:00","text":"我們希望……","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:26.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:27.654000+08:00","text":"釐清責任，毋枉毋縱，這是我們的態度。","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"徐委員欣瑩","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:27.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:47.580000+08:00","text":"對，當然，我們大家都希望，而且我們希望是沒有擦槍走火，所以我們希望管主委，您一定要為整個事件想得周全，你不要再如此的態度強硬，而且我們希望能夠為兩岸……","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:47.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:51.981000+08:00","text":"我們的善意無以復加，我們真的呼籲大家能不能一起……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:51.981000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:52.981000+08:00","text":"謝謝徐欣瑩委員的質詢，時間到了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:52.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:53.262000+08:00","text":"呼籲對方也讓這件事情回歸人道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:53.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:54.082000+08:00","text":"也謝謝管主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-04T11:31:54.582000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-04T11:31:57.439143+08:00","text":"繼續請蘇巧慧委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}