{"error":false,"id":["149453"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149453,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149453","日期":"2024-03-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-07T09:25:34+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-07T09:37:57+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1441ba9c2015bdbe2fdc689cc8217eb9aaa95e40c3cff622f8ba9b0039caa7a6aca9bc7b5eabd6695ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"謝龍介","委員發言時間":"09:25:34 - 09:37:57","會議時間":"2024-03-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":987,"blocks":[["謝委員龍介：（9時25分）感謝主席。部長你好。"],["蔡部長清祥：委員你好。"],["謝委員龍介：我請教一下，關於金廈事件，連國際都矚目，這個案子金門地檢署什麼時候可以偵結？"],["蔡部長清祥：跟委員說明，金門地檢署在第一時間他們就分案……"],["謝委員龍介：你可以發揮一個關鍵，你知道嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：我知道。"],["謝委員龍介：有時候事件調查明確，大家就可以沉澱下來了嘛！"],["蔡部長清祥：對，所以第一時間他們就有參與，而你問什麼時候可以結案，這我沒有辦法跟你說。"],["謝委員龍介：這個不是很複雜的案件，不是叫你去指示什麼的……"],["蔡部長清祥：對，但是要對方家屬的配合……"],["謝委員龍介：如果檢察官都沒有這種敏感度……"],["蔡部長清祥：有啦！"],["謝委員龍介：若有，那是什麼時候？"],["蔡部長清祥：什麼時候我沒辦法替他們說，我只能說儘速。"],["謝委員龍介：只有儘速而已？好，我請教你，憲法法庭4月份要進行死刑是否違憲的辯論，請問法務部的立場是什麼？"],["蔡部長清祥：對於死刑的立場，我們就是依法執行，法律上要執行就要執行，我也執行過了……"],["謝委員龍介：沒關係，法務部要派什麼人代表法務部出席死刑是否違憲的辯論？"],["蔡部長清祥：有我們的代表……"],["謝委員龍介：是誰？"],["蔡部長清祥：也有檢察機關的代表，也有推薦的學者代表。"],["謝委員龍介：當事人知道了嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：當事人？"],["謝委員龍介：你法務部要派去的人，他自己知道嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：知道啊！"],["謝委員龍介：他自己知道嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：他們內部都有在討論，也有……"],["謝委員龍介：4月就要辯論了，他本身要攻防，所以我問你法務部的態度是準備要把它廢掉還是要怎樣，你要有立場出來，不是嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們的立場就是跟過去是一貫的，對於死刑就是依法執行。"],["謝委員龍介：依法執行的話，你任內也沒有執行半個？"],["蔡部長清祥：有啊！如果法律上救濟程序已經完結，我就照法律來執行，但若還在救濟當中，我就沒辦法了。"],["謝委員龍介：你有執行幾個？"],["蔡部長清祥：兩位、兩件。"],["謝委員龍介：多久了？"],["蔡部長清祥：有一段時間了，但是其他因為程序還在進行，如果程序沒走完……"],["謝委員龍介：他們去聲請釋憲就可以再拖一陣子，但國民黨去聲請釋憲，就是把國民黨財產沒收是違憲的，可是他們一下子就去處理了……"],["蔡部長清祥：所以憲法法庭要趕快去處理……"],["謝委員龍介：我請問一下，有沒有收到任何總統府或是行政院來指示法務部在憲法法庭辯論的時候你要放水或是打假球？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有！"],["謝委員龍介：有沒有？"],["蔡部長清祥：都沒有。"],["謝委員龍介：美國部分的州，還有韓國、日本、新加坡，他們都有死刑的規定，請問我們的死刑規定是違反了憲法哪一條？我請問你，有違反憲法哪一條嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：憲法沒有規定死刑的事情啦！"],["謝委員龍介：有違反嗎？違反憲法哪一條？"],["蔡部長清祥：它沒規定這個東西嘛！這是刑事訴訟法。"],["謝委員龍介：你現在說沒有，好，為什麼先進國家的死刑它就沒有違憲？而我們國家的死刑卻可能違憲，所以要辯論，為什麼？"],["蔡部長清祥：因為有人聲請，向憲法法院聲請釋憲。"],["謝委員龍介：你對去憲法法庭辯論有信心嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：有啊！我對我的同仁絕對有信心。"],["謝委員龍介：我們就比賽看結果。","部長，你是否同意、認同要不要執行死刑跟死刑有沒有違憲，這是兩回事？"],["蔡部長清祥：當然是兩回事！我是站在法律的立場，依法來……"],["謝委員龍介：直到今天，還有多少判決死刑確定的人還沒有執行？"],["蔡部長清祥：判決死刑確定，就我們現在所瞭解的有37位。"],["謝委員龍介：如果這次憲法法庭就宣告違憲，請問現在判決確定的這些死刑犯，是不是要馬上釋放？"],["蔡部長清祥：判決違憲，那是死刑違憲，原來的判決罪行並沒有……"],["謝委員龍介：死刑就是違憲了嘛！"],["蔡部長清祥：也許憲法法院會認為要重新審理。"],["謝委員龍介：重新審理，你又沒有告訴人民，而且如果是這樣的話，這些死刑犯會立刻釋放的啦！"],["蔡部長清祥：不會啦！"],["謝委員龍介：為什麼不會？都違憲了你還不放？"],["蔡部長清祥：重新審理啊！"],["謝委員龍介：重新審理？他就是沒罪了，你怎麼還要關他？"],["蔡部長清祥：那不是沒罪，要判什麼刑法官會決定。"],["謝委員龍介：我跟你說，有的人都已經關了超過20年了，還不放出去？"],["蔡部長清祥：也有可能判無期徒刑啊！哪有可能再釋放他，對不對？"],["謝委員龍介：判無期徒刑的，為什麼不能釋放？"],["蔡部長清祥：你是說「馬上釋放」……"],["謝委員龍介：法務部有義務要先跟國人講清楚，如果宣告死刑違憲，則現在被判死刑的人，有可能就是馬上要釋放了，法院可能會當庭就放人。"],["蔡部長清祥：那是法院要考慮的。"],["謝委員龍介：你有義務跟百姓講，要給法庭壓力，你這樣就表示你沒有要辯護啊！"],["蔡部長清祥：有啊！"],["謝委員龍介：那你為什麼要支持廢除死刑？"],["蔡部長清祥：我沒有說支持還是不支持，我是說依法執行。"],["謝委員龍介：所以剛才我才先詢問你的立場，不要這樣啦！這在臺灣有八成以上的人是反對的，尤其現在治安差、詐騙這麼多，詐騙不會判死刑，而且廢除死刑會讓人民覺得，我們對於相關的犯罪是在縱放。"],["蔡部長清祥：法務部的立場不會這樣啦！"],["謝委員龍介：人民對司法會越來越沒信心，不是這樣嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：法務部的立場很清楚，就是依法執行。"],["謝委員龍介：如果憲法法庭4月宣告違憲，這次的判決說這是違憲，是現在宣告以後才違憲，還是以前就違憲？"],["蔡部長清祥：你要看他是怎麼判決的。"],["謝委員龍介：如果這是違憲，哪有一樣的法條、一樣的死刑規定、一樣的憲法，為什麼以前不違憲，現在變成違憲？"],["蔡部長清祥：不是啦！我們要看他最後的判決。"],["謝委員龍介：他如果判決說現在開始才違憲，同樣的法條、同樣的憲法，以前不違憲，現在才違憲，可以這樣嗎？如果說本來就違憲，那我請問你，如果違憲……"],["蔡部長清祥：他也可以說……"],["謝委員龍介：結果是違憲嘛！"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["謝委員龍介：那我請問你，以前被我們執行槍決的死刑犯要怎麼辦？他們要怎麼救濟？"],["蔡部長清祥：已經確定了，就不會影響到它確定的效力。"],["謝委員龍介：已經違憲了，表示你過去對他執行槍決就是違憲，這要怎麼處理？要怎麼去救濟？"],["蔡部長清祥：不能這樣追溯、不可以這樣討論啦！"],["謝委員龍介：為何不可以這樣討論？這可是憲法法庭！當事人他可以救濟嗎？你這是違憲啊！應該是判無期徒刑，結果你都把他槍決了，我請問你，這些人可以救濟嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：要看每一個案件進行的狀況，如果發生一個判決違法要予以救濟，我們當然要依法救濟。"],["謝委員龍介：你態度要清楚，我沒有在騙你，我這是在保護你。"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝。"],["謝委員龍介：臺灣人民是很關心你的。"],["蔡部長清祥：大家都有看到我的立場。"],["謝委員龍介：關於憲法法庭，我現在請教你，總統府有沒有發公文，要法務部研議陳水扁前總統的特赦案，你要想清楚喔！它有發文給你嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有。"],["謝委員龍介：你確定沒有？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有。"],["謝委員龍介：你確定？是你沒收到，還是法務部都沒有人收到？"],["蔡部長清祥：如果有這種重大的事情，同仁會跟我講，但是……"],["謝委員龍介：總統府有沒有找部長去開會，研議陳水扁特赦案，有或沒有？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有。"],["謝委員龍介：沒有？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有。"],["謝委員龍介：沒有？你想清楚喔！"],["蔡部長清祥：真的啊！有或沒有我當然最清楚啊！"],["謝委員龍介：2月，有嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有。"],["謝委員龍介：1月？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有，哪有啊！你說1月，那是什麼事情？"],["謝委員龍介：1月時你有沒有進去總統府？"],["蔡部長清祥：有時候會進去，但是討論什麼事情……"],["謝委員龍介：你有沒有進去？你跟我說啦！我們二個交情不錯啦！所以你有沒有進去？"],["蔡部長清祥：你跟我講什麼時間啊！畢竟我有時會去討論事情。"],["謝委員龍介：就是去討論阿扁特赦的事情。"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有！絕對沒有！"],["謝委員龍介：有人跟我說有啦！"],["蔡部長清祥：是誰你說出來啊！"],["謝委員龍介：現在的政務官……"],["蔡部長清祥：好，你說是什麼人。"],["謝委員龍介：現在的政務官，在你們政務官裡面的人。"],["蔡部長清祥：他有沒有看錯人？還是說……"],["謝委員龍介：沒有，怎麼會看錯？你長得這麼帥，人家怎麼可能看錯？依據赦免法第六條，總統特赦前可以命令行政院轉達法務部研議特赦。請問部長，總統府有要法務部研議嗎？有透過行政院轉達研議嗎？我剛剛問到總統府，你說沒有，現在有沒有透過行政院要你研議？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有！"],["謝委員龍介：這麼重要的事你們都不用研議？"],["蔡部長清祥：因為特赦是總統的特權！"],["謝委員龍介：你們討論的過程是特赦陳水扁一個人，還是特赦一批人？"],["蔡部長清祥：沒有這種事！目前沒有這種事！"],["謝委員龍介：我說有，結果你說沒有？"],["蔡部長清祥：確實沒有！"],["謝委員龍介：特赦陳水扁後，相關財產要怎麼處理？你們都有討論啦！所以為什麼要通過藐視國會罪？就是為了這樣！今天剛好沒有這項罪名，如果有的話，像我們現在這樣，我就要發脾氣了！但我不會，因為我這個人修養很好……"],["蔡部長清祥：確實沒有接到通知，至於研究，我們隨時都在研究。像死刑案件，我們也是隨時都在掌握。"],["謝委員龍介：總統府就是有跟你們討論，如果沒有消息來源我不會在這裡說。這不是要讓你難堪，我只是想說這件事要謹慎……"],["蔡部長清祥：對。"],["謝委員龍介：因為這件事卡到一旦阿扁赦免了，相關財產要怎麼辦？赦免後，他剩下的案件怎麼辦？還沒審的案件要怎麼辦，對不對？"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["謝委員龍介：再來，那些錢要怎麼處理？赦免是只赦陳水扁一個人，還是要赦一批人？我想你們有討論！我並不是要你給我答案，因為本來這問題……"],["蔡部長清祥：任何問題都需要研究。"],["謝委員龍介：就要十分謹慎。其實我不反對，問題在於，第一，他不道歉，不還錢！因此若要特赦，我絕對反對到底！錢賺這麼多，這樣對其他的人要怎麼交代？一個道歉，向臺灣道歉，道歉、認錯、還錢，那麼要怎麼特赦是你家的事！這也合情合理，畢竟他當過元首，對他有特別待遇也合情合理。可是他到今天沒有悔改之心，這要怎麼拿到最高階層的特赦？本席今天跟你討論這個，並不是要你給我答案。我告訴你，有去沒關係，至於討論什麼事情則要謹慎，你要站在人民信賴司法的立場去面對這些壓力。我知道你有壓力，要面對，像我一樣勇敢面對……"],["蔡部長清祥：是、是。"],["謝委員龍介：不要聽到「阿扁」就退縮，好嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：不會。好，謝謝。"],["主席：接下來請陳俊宇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-4","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","謝龍介","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","林思銘","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","傅崐萁","楊瓊瓔","鄭天財Sra 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政院來指示法務部在憲法法庭辯論的時候"},{"start":166.289,"end":184.559,"text":"你要放水或是打假球沒有有沒有都沒有美國的一部分的州韓國日本新加坡他們都有死刑的規定那請問我們的死刑規定是違反了憲法哪一條"},{"start":185.845,"end":189.406,"text":"那我們的國家的死刑卻可能違憲 所以要辯論嘛"},{"start":210.712,"end":231.702,"text":"因為有人申請把憲法法院申請說你對這個憲法法定你去辯論有信心嗎?有啊,我對我的同仁絕對有信心有信心我們比賽看結果不然你是否同意認同說要不要執行死刑然後跟憲法死刑有沒有違憲這是兩回事"},{"start":233.985,"end":235.827,"text":"那如果憲法法庭這次宣告違憲"},{"start":260.493,"end":268.111,"text":"就宣告違憲嘛那請問現在判決確定的這些死情況是不是要馬上釋放"},{"start":270.107,"end":270.507,"text":"沒啦沒"},{"start":300.042,"end":315.427,"text":"重新審理啊重新審理他就是 啊 沒多他就是沒多啦 你要怎麼再給他歪啦那不是沒多 他要判什麼刑判什麼刑 那我告訴你啦那有的都歪了二十年超過了 你也剛好 這樣還不用綁住你那有可能判不基督刑啊 那有可能又綁對不對判不基督刑為什麼不能綁啊"},{"start":325.905,"end":334.408,"text":"有義務要先跟國人講清楚啦如果宣告死刑違憲那現在法施行這的人有可能就是馬上要綁 歡迎他當場就幫你綁人 我跟你講那是歡迎他要考慮啦不是歡迎他要做 你有義務跟法省講嘛 要給法定案例嘛"},{"start":352.694,"end":371.745,"text":"表示你沒有要辯護啊你不是說要支持私營、匯毒?我沒有說支持不支持,我是依法執行我們在說這就是我剛才申問你的立場嘛所以不要這樣啦這是一個在台灣百姓以上大家反對尤其現在地安詐騙這麼多地安詐騙不會破私營但是這個匯毒私營會讓人民覺得說我們對這個犯罪是在裝磅"},{"start":379.801,"end":391.152,"text":"法務部的立法委員會不會這樣?法務部的立法委員會很清楚的如果宣告是以前就違憲 那請問你他現在是否宣告違憲?這次的法官違憲是現在宣告以後才違憲還是以前就違憲?"},{"start":403.097,"end":403.277,"text":"為什麼以前不違憲現在變成違憲?"},{"start":416.786,"end":417.026,"text":"結果是違憲嘛"},{"start":439.511,"end":448.873,"text":"那我請問你,他才讓我們選擇一星期的司法委員會怎麼樣?已經確定了,他就不會影響到他確定的效率嗎?已經違憲了,就是標示你過去跟法制,就是違憲啊!要怎麼處理?要怎麼去救濟嘛?那不可以這樣討論啊!那不可以這樣討論啊!欸,憲法法定欸,他可以救多少嗎?"},{"start":465.25,"end":472.844,"text":"董事連可以救責嗎?你危險嘛!你應該是沒有基督行,你都說自己怕死啦!我請問你,這的人可以救責嗎?"},{"start":475.613,"end":493.011,"text":"看每一宗案件的情形,如果有發生判決違法,要救濟的,我們當然依法來救濟你態度要清楚,我不騙你,我是在保護你,台灣人民是很關心你的憲法法庭這條,我現在請教你"},{"start":499.485,"end":506.872,"text":"總統府有沒有發公文要法務部研議陳水扁前總統的特赦案?"},{"start":512.731,"end":521.153,"text":"總統府有沒有找部長去開會研議陳水扁特赦案?沒有沒有?沒有?你最清楚喔?沒有啊有沒有我最清楚啊?你以為有沒有?沒有以為?以為沒有啊你說以為是什麼事情你看"},{"start":542.742,"end":543.083,"text":"有人跟我說有啦"},{"start":562.165,"end":563.206,"text":"依據社民法第6條總統特赦前可以命令行政院轉達法務部研議特赦請問補充"},{"start":586.13,"end":609.933,"text":"總統府有要法務部研議嗎?有透過行政院轉達研議嗎?現在有沒有透過行政院要你研議?沒有這麼重要的事情你都沒有在研議因為這是特色是總統府的特權你們討論的過程是只特色陳水扁一個人還是特色一批人"},{"start":611.513,"end":611.713,"text":"所以為什麼說藐視國會"},{"start":626.57,"end":647.585,"text":"要來升職就是這樣 今天是剛好沒這條罪 如果有就補充 像我們兩個 我就會發脾氣 但是我不會嘛 因為我的人生活很好沒有啦 開始沒接到這個通緝 但是你說研究 我們隨時都在研究 執行的案件我們也是隨時都要掌握嘛總統府就是有 有給你討論 我如果沒抽誰來玩 我不會在這裡跟你講"},{"start":649.967,"end":651.027,"text":"我不是叫你給我答案"},{"start":674.635,"end":682.057,"text":"因為本來就是跟你講 講對這個問題就是要謙虛啦十分謹慎啦社會 我也沒有反對 但是怎樣第一個 他不道歉 不還錢你現在跟我說 其實我是絕對反對老弟的嘛錢賺那麼多 這樣對錢賺的人要怎麼交代一個賭博 跟台灣一個賭博你賭博 臨場 行情"},{"start":703.39,"end":717.195,"text":"要怎麼解決你們家的事?合情合理,因為做過元宿啦,我們對有特別的待遇,也合情合理啦,到今天沒悔改之心,你怎麼提到再改善的解決?"},{"start":718.462,"end":740.072,"text":"所以這是本性喔今天跟你討論這不是說叫你給我什麼答案阿我告訴你阿有你不就沒關係但是討論什麼事情要謹慎你要站在你民隊司法信賴的背景去民隊這裡會壓力我沒想到你有壓力嘛但要民隊阿我們要像這樣全部都一樣勇敢民隊是謝謝 別聽了我拚了就救他好不好好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:25:34+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:25:35+08:00","text":"感謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:25:35+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:25:36+08:00","text":"部長你好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:25:36+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:25:37+08:00","text":"委員你好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:25:34.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:25:40.798000+08:00","text":"我請教一下，關於金廈事件，連國際都矚目，這個案子金門地檢署什麼時候可以偵結？","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:25:51.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:25:55.385000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，金門地檢署在第一時間他們就分案……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:25:55.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:25:56.366000+08:00","text":"你可以發揮一個關鍵，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:25:56.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:25:56.466000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:25:56.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:25:58.427000+08:00","text":"有時候事件調查明確，大家就可以沉澱下來了嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:08.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:12.712000+08:00","text":"對，所以第一時間他們就有參與，而你問什麼時候可以結案，這我沒有辦法跟你說。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:12.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:15.553000+08:00","text":"這個不是很複雜的案件，不是叫你去指示什麼的……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:15.553000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:16.553000+08:00","text":"對，但是要對方家屬的配合……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:15.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:18.235000+08:00","text":"如果檢察官都沒有這種敏感度……有啦！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:18.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:18.415000+08:00","text":"若有，那是什麼時候？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:18.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:19.956000+08:00","text":"什麼時候我沒辦法替他們說，我只能說儘速。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:19.956000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:23.650667+08:00","text":"只有儘速而已？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:23.650667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:27.345333+08:00","text":"好，我請教你，憲法法庭4月份要進行死刑是否違憲的辯論，請問法務部的立場是什麼？","quality":0.147},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:27.345333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:31.040000+08:00","text":"對於死刑的立場，我們就是依法執行，法律上要執行就要執行，我也執行過了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:31.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:35.444000+08:00","text":"沒關係，法務部要派什麼人代表法務部出席死刑是否違憲的辯論？","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:57.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:26:58.387000+08:00","text":"有我們的代表……是誰？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:26:59.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:02.413000+08:00","text":"也有檢察機關的代表，也有推薦的學者代表。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:03.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:04.095000+08:00","text":"當事人知道了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:04.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:05.095000+08:00","text":"當事人？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:05.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:06.095000+08:00","text":"你法務部要派去的人，他自己知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:06.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:07.095000+08:00","text":"知道啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:07.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:08.095000+08:00","text":"他自己知道嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:08.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:09.095000+08:00","text":"他們內部都有在討論，也有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:09.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:10.095000+08:00","text":"4月就要辯論了，他本身要攻防，所以我問你法務部的態度是準備要把它廢掉還是要怎樣，你要有立場出來，不是嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:05.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:06.655000+08:00","text":"我們的立場就是跟過去是一貫的，對於死刑就是依法執行。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:06.655000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:31.100000+08:00","text":"依法執行的話，你任內也沒有執行半個？有啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:31.100000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:37.602000+08:00","text":"如果法律上救濟程序已經完結，我就照法律來執行，但若還在救濟當中，我就沒辦法了。","quality":0.657},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:39.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:39.063000+08:00","text":"你有執行幾個？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:39.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:39.183000+08:00","text":"兩位、兩件。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:39.183000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:40.183000+08:00","text":"多久了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:39.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:40.763000+08:00","text":"有一段時間了，但是其他因為程序還在進行，如果程序沒走完……","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:40.763000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:47.485500+08:00","text":"他們去聲請釋憲就可以再拖一陣子，但國民黨去聲請釋憲，就是把國民黨財產沒收是違憲的，可是他們一下子就去處理了……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:47.485500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:27:54.208000+08:00","text":"所以憲法法庭要趕快去處理……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:27:54.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:22.510000+08:00","text":"我請問一下，有沒有收到任何總統府或是行政院來指示法務部在憲法法庭辯論的時候你要放水或是打假球？沒有！","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:23.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:23.251000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:23.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:24.071000+08:00","text":"都沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:25.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:38.559000+08:00","text":"美國部分的州，還有韓國、日本、新加坡，他們都有死刑的規定，請問我們的死刑規定是違反了憲法哪一條？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:38.559000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:39.559000+08:00","text":"我請問你，有違反憲法哪一條嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:39.559000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:40.559000+08:00","text":"憲法沒有規定死刑的事情啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:40.559000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:41.559000+08:00","text":"有違反嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:41.559000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:42.559000+08:00","text":"違反憲法哪一條？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:42.559000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:43.559000+08:00","text":"它沒規定這個東西嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:43.559000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:44.559000+08:00","text":"這是刑事訴訟法。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:44.559000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:45.559000+08:00","text":"你現在說沒有，好，為什麼先進國家的死刑它就沒有違憲？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:28:39.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:28:43.386000+08:00","text":"而我們國家的死刑卻可能違憲，所以要辯論，為什麼？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:04.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:08.313000+08:00","text":"因為有人聲請，向憲法法院聲請釋憲。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:08.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:12.215000+08:00","text":"你對去憲法法庭辯論有信心嗎？有啊！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:12.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:14.397000+08:00","text":"我對我的同仁絕對有信心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:14.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:16.117000+08:00","text":"我們就比賽看結果。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:18.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:25.682000+08:00","text":"部長，你是否同意、認同要不要執行死刑跟死刑有沒有違憲，這是兩回事？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:25.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:26.682000+08:00","text":"當然是兩回事！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:26.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:27.682000+08:00","text":"我是站在法律的立場，依法來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:27.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:28.682000+08:00","text":"直到今天，還有多少判決死刑確定的人還沒有執行？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:28.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:29:29.682000+08:00","text":"判決死刑確定，就我們現在所瞭解的有37位。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:29:28.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:02.091000+08:00","text":"如果這次憲法法庭就宣告違憲，請問現在判決確定的這些死刑犯，是不是要馬上釋放？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:02.091000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:06.655429+08:00","text":"判決違憲，那是死刑違憲，原來的判決罪行並沒有……","quality":0.05},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:06.655429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:11.219857+08:00","text":"死刑就是違憲了嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:11.219857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:15.784286+08:00","text":"也許憲法法院會認為要重新審理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:15.784286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:20.348714+08:00","text":"重新審理，你又沒有告訴人民，而且如果是這樣的話，這些死刑犯會立刻釋放的啦！","quality":0.03},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:20.348714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:24.913143+08:00","text":"不會啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:24.913143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:29.477571+08:00","text":"為什麼不會？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:29.477571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:34.042000+08:00","text":"都違憲了你還不放？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:34.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:34.802000+08:00","text":"重新審理啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:36.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:36.883000+08:00","text":"重新審理？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:37.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:40.604000+08:00","text":"他就是沒罪了，你怎麼還要關他？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:41.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:42.665000+08:00","text":"那不是沒罪，要判什麼刑法官會決定。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:43.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:46.646000+08:00","text":"我跟你說，有的人都已經關了超過20年了，還不放出去？","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:47.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:47.826000+08:00","text":"也有可能判無期徒刑啊！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:47.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:48.487000+08:00","text":"哪有可能再釋放他，對不對？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:48.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:49.227000+08:00","text":"判無期徒刑的，為什麼不能釋放？","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:49.227000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:30:59.905000+08:00","text":"你是說「馬上釋放」……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:30:59.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:04.066000+08:00","text":"法務部有義務要先跟國人講清楚，如果宣告死刑違憲，則現在被判死刑的人，有可能就是馬上要釋放了，法院可能會當庭就放人。","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:04.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:05.527000+08:00","text":"那是法院要考慮的。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:07.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:27.835000+08:00","text":"你有義務跟百姓講，要給法庭壓力，你這樣就表示你沒有要辯護啊！有啊！","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:28.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:29.316000+08:00","text":"那你為什麼要支持廢除死刑？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:31.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:33.698000+08:00","text":"我沒有說支持還是不支持，我是說依法執行。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:34.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:38.081000+08:00","text":"所以剛才我才先詢問你的立場，不要這樣啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:38.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:45.725000+08:00","text":"這在臺灣有八成以上的人是反對的，尤其現在治安差、詐騙這麼多，詐騙不會判死刑，而且廢除死刑會讓人民覺得，我們對於相關的犯罪是在縱放。","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:53.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:54.582000+08:00","text":"法務部的立場不會這樣啦！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:54.582000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:55.582000+08:00","text":"人民對司法會越來越沒信心，不是這樣嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:54.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:31:56.864000+08:00","text":"法務部的立場很清楚，就是依法執行。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:31:57.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:05.152000+08:00","text":"如果憲法法庭4月宣告違憲，這次的判決說這是違憲，是現在宣告以後才違憲，還是以前就違憲？","quality":0.763},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:05.152000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:17.097000+08:00","text":"你要看他是怎麼判決的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:17.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:17.277000+08:00","text":"如果這是違憲，哪有一樣的法條、一樣的死刑規定、一樣的憲法，為什麼以前不違憲，現在變成違憲？","quality":0.359},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:17.277000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:19.978800+08:00","text":"不是啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:19.978800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:22.680600+08:00","text":"我們要看他最後的判決。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:22.680600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:25.382400+08:00","text":"他如果判決說現在開始才違憲，同樣的法條、同樣的憲法，以前不違憲，現在才違憲，可以這樣嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:25.382400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:28.084200+08:00","text":"如果說本來就違憲，那我請問你，如果違憲……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:28.084200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:30.786000+08:00","text":"他也可以說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:30.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:31.006000+08:00","text":"結果是違憲嘛！是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:53.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:55.652000+08:00","text":"那我請問你，以前被我們執行槍決的死刑犯要怎麼辦？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:55.652000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:56.652000+08:00","text":"他們要怎麼救濟？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:55.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:57.052000+08:00","text":"已經確定了，就不會影響到它確定的效力。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:57.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:32:59.332000+08:00","text":"已經違憲了，表示你過去對他執行槍決就是違憲，這要怎麼處理？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:32:59.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:00.233000+08:00","text":"要怎麼去救濟？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:00.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:00.733000+08:00","text":"不能這樣追溯、不可以這樣討論啦！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:01.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:01.573000+08:00","text":"為何不可以這樣討論？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:01.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:01.613000+08:00","text":"這可是憲法法庭！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:01.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:02.873000+08:00","text":"當事人他可以救濟嗎？","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:02.873000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:22.756000+08:00","text":"你這是違憲啊！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:22.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:26.844000+08:00","text":"應該是判無期徒刑，結果你都把他槍決了，我請問你，這些人可以救濟嗎？","quality":0.517},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:29.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:38.222000+08:00","text":"要看每一個案件進行的狀況，如果發生一個判決違法要予以救濟，我們當然要依法救濟。","quality":0.694},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:38.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:42.006000+08:00","text":"你態度要清楚，我沒有在騙你，我這是在保護你。謝謝。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:43.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:45.870000+08:00","text":"臺灣人民是很關心你的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:45.870000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:33:46.870000+08:00","text":"大家都有看到我的立場。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:33:45.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:00.852000+08:00","text":"關於憲法法庭，我現在請教你，總統府有沒有發公文，要法務部研議陳水扁前總統的特赦案，你要想清楚喔！","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:00.852000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:02.027800+08:00","text":"它有發文給你嗎？沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:02.027800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:03.203600+08:00","text":"你確定沒有？沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:03.203600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:04.379400+08:00","text":"你確定？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:04.379400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:05.555200+08:00","text":"是你沒收到，還是法務部都沒有人收到？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:05.555200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:06.731000+08:00","text":"如果有這種重大的事情，同仁會跟我講，但是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:06.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:09.051000+08:00","text":"總統府有沒有找部長去開會，研議陳水扁特赦案，有或沒有？沒有。沒有？沒有。沒有？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:09.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:09.672000+08:00","text":"你想清楚喔！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:10.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:10.052000+08:00","text":"真的啊！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:10.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:12.132000+08:00","text":"有或沒有我當然最清楚啊！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:12.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:13.292000+08:00","text":"2月，有嗎？沒有。1月？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:13.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:14.173000+08:00","text":"沒有，哪有啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:14.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:15.073000+08:00","text":"你說1月，那是什麼事情？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:15.073000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:17.239900+08:00","text":"1月時你有沒有進去總統府？","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:17.239900+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:19.406800+08:00","text":"有時候會進去，但是討論什麼事情……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:19.406800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:21.573700+08:00","text":"你有沒有進去？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:21.573700+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:23.740600+08:00","text":"你跟我說啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:23.740600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:25.907500+08:00","text":"我們二個交情不錯啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:25.907500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:28.074400+08:00","text":"所以你有沒有進去？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:28.074400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:30.241300+08:00","text":"你跟我講什麼時間啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:30.241300+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:32.408200+08:00","text":"畢竟我有時會去討論事情。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:32.408200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:34.575100+08:00","text":"就是去討論阿扁特赦的事情。沒有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:34.575100+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:36.742000+08:00","text":"絕對沒有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:36.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:37.063000+08:00","text":"有人跟我說有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:37.063000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:39.450750+08:00","text":"是誰你說出來啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:39.450750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:41.838500+08:00","text":"現在的政務官……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:41.838500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:44.226250+08:00","text":"好，你說是什麼人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:44.226250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:46.614000+08:00","text":"現在的政務官，在你們政務官裡面的人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:46.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:49.001750+08:00","text":"他有沒有看錯人？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:49.001750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:51.389500+08:00","text":"還是說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:51.389500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:53.777250+08:00","text":"沒有，怎麼會看錯？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:53.777250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:56.165000+08:00","text":"你長得這麼帥，人家怎麼可能看錯？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:56.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:34:57.186000+08:00","text":"依據赦免法第六條，總統特赦前可以命令行政院轉達法務部研議特赦。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:34:57.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:23.373000+08:00","text":"請問部長，總統府有要法務部研議嗎？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:23.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:28.558000+08:00","text":"有透過行政院轉達研議嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:28.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:31.701000+08:00","text":"我剛剛問到總統府，你說沒有，現在有沒有透過行政院要你研議？沒有！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:32.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:34.924000+08:00","text":"這麼重要的事你們都不用研議？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:34.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:38.287000+08:00","text":"因為特赦是總統的特權！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:38.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:43.913000+08:00","text":"你們討論的過程是特赦陳水扁一個人，還是特赦一批人？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:43.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:44.913000+08:00","text":"沒有這種事！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:44.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:45.913000+08:00","text":"目前沒有這種事！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:45.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:46.913000+08:00","text":"我說有，結果你說沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:46.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:47.913000+08:00","text":"確實沒有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:47.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:48.913000+08:00","text":"特赦陳水扁後，相關財產要怎麼處理？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:48.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:49.913000+08:00","text":"你們都有討論啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:35:45.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:35:45.713000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼要通過藐視國會罪？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:01.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:02.672000+08:00","text":"就是為了這樣！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:02.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:08.436000+08:00","text":"今天剛好沒有這項罪名，如果有的話，像我們現在這樣，我就要發脾氣了！","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:08.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:10.377000+08:00","text":"但我不會，因為我這個人修養很好……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:10.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:13.840000+08:00","text":"確實沒有接到通知，至於研究，我們隨時都在研究。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:15.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:16.842000+08:00","text":"像死刑案件，我們也是隨時都在掌握。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:17.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:21.465000+08:00","text":"總統府就是有跟你們討論，如果沒有消息來源我不會在這裡說。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:21.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:22.465000+08:00","text":"這不是要讓你難堪，我只是想說這件事要謹慎……對。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:22.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:23.465000+08:00","text":"因為這件事卡到一旦阿扁赦免了，相關財產要怎麼辦？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:23.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:24.465000+08:00","text":"赦免後，他剩下的案件怎麼辦？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:24.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:25.465000+08:00","text":"還沒審的案件要怎麼辦，對不對？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:25.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:26.465000+08:00","text":"再來，那些錢要怎麼處理？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:26.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:27.465000+08:00","text":"赦免是只赦陳水扁一個人，還是要赦一批人？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:27.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:28.465000+08:00","text":"我想你們有討論！","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:24.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:49.215000+08:00","text":"我並不是要你給我答案，因為本來這問題……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:49.215000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:50.215000+08:00","text":"任何問題都需要研究。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:49.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:49.615000+08:00","text":"就要十分謹慎。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:49.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:50.876000+08:00","text":"其實我不反對，問題在於，第一，他不道歉，不還錢！","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:51.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:52.056000+08:00","text":"因此若要特赦，我絕對反對到底！","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:53.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:36:54.837000+08:00","text":"錢賺這麼多，這樣對其他的人要怎麼交代？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:36:54.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:18.450000+08:00","text":"一個道歉，向臺灣道歉，道歉、認錯、還錢，那麼要怎麼特赦是你家的事！","quality":0.407},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:37:18.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:25.133000+08:00","text":"這也合情合理，畢竟他當過元首，對他有特別待遇也合情合理。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:37:27.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:31.055000+08:00","text":"可是他到今天沒有悔改之心，這要怎麼拿到最高階層的特赦？","quality":0.48},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:37:33.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:37.524000+08:00","text":"本席今天跟你討論這個，並不是要你給我答案。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:37:38.105000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:46.869000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，有去沒關係，至於討論什麼事情則要謹慎，你要站在人民信賴司法的立場去面對這些壓力。","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:37:47.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:53.071000+08:00","text":"我知道你有壓力，要面對，像我一樣勇敢面對……是、是。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"謝委員龍介","start":"2024-03-07T09:37:53.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:53.872000+08:00","text":"不要聽到「阿扁」就退縮，好嗎？不會。","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"蔡部長清祥","start":"2024-03-07T09:37:54.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:54.072000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-07T09:37:54.572000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-07T09:37:57.714857+08:00","text":"接下來請陳俊宇委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}