{"error":false,"id":["149677"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149677,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149677","日期":"2024-03-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-11T11:18:57+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-11T11:26:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9ce5e25ef4cf4300cc7015a9568c9bb043c6dab19d9f116df8ba9b0039caa7a69f750fbe189a9eba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李坤城","委員發言時間":"11:18:57 - 11:26:22","會議時間":"2024-03-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":683,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（11時19分）謝謝主席，我們請李主委。"],["主席：請李主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：主委好。大家都很關心你們所提出來的公民投票的不在籍投票法的法案……"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["李委員坤城：我發現在野黨也有提出不在籍投票法，本席先請教一下主委，你們送過來到立法院審查的全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的修法重點，我認為第一個，公民投票就是對事的投票；第二個就是由投票權人本人，親自在投票日當日前往投票所投票，這是一個移轉的投票，可以兼顧投票的秘密性，還有投票結果的公平性。請問一下，現在這種移轉投票是不是已經有部分在實施了？"],["李主任委員進勇：有的，有兩種狀況，一個就是投開票所的選務工作人員，他可以移轉投票；第二個就是僑居國外的中華民國國民，他們申請回國來選舉總統、副總統，那也是另外一種移轉投票。"],["李委員坤城：目前實施到現在有沒有出現什麼問題？"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有出現問題。"],["李委員坤城：沒有出現問題。"],["李主任委員進勇：沒有出現問題。"],["李委員坤城：好，這個是移轉投票，就事先先登記，是不是？"],["李主任委員進勇：對，事先要先登記……"],["李委員坤城：事先先登記。"],["李主任委員進勇：包括僑居國外的國民都是事先登記。"],["李委員坤城：好，現在我看在野黨的立委有提案，有兩個版本，都是關於一般選舉的不在籍投票，我不曉得主委有沒有看過他們提案的內容？"],["李主任委員進勇：我有看過。"],["李委員坤城：你認為和公民投票的不在籍投票的最大差異在哪裡？"],["李主任委員進勇：我想不在籍投票的推動牽涉到兩個層面，第一個就是適用的範圍到底到什麼地方，我們現在的步驟就是從對事的公民投票開始適用，漸次地再能夠擴及到選舉，這是適用的範圍；另外一個是實施的方式，因為不在籍投票的方式有很多，現在被討論的包括通訊投票、特設投開票所、代理投票、提前投票等等，你是不是一次都到位？有沒有什麼困難？我們的步驟是從我們已經有實施經驗的移轉投票來開始實施，根據這個實施的經驗，我們再逐漸地來檢討、推廣到其他可能的方式。"],["李委員坤城：本席認為在野黨立委所提案的不在籍投票和目前我們要推的這個不在籍投票最大的差別應該在於通訊投票……"],["李主任委員進勇：是。"],["李委員坤城：是通訊投票。通訊投票其實也有很多的亂象，我舉美國為例，他們採用通訊投票，在2020年的時候他們的總統大選採用通訊投票，結果開了4天，到第4天票都還開不出來，這是臺灣沒辦法發生的，臺灣當天晚上票都一定要開出來，沒有辦法容許4天，因為美國太大了，delay4天，結果還開不出來。當然通訊投票也不一定會提高投票率，從美國總統大選來看，也不一定會提高投票率。","第二個，郵寄的過程當中有太多機會可以作票，沒有辦法監票，沒有辦法秘密投票，譬如我剛才看到有很多委員提到在臺灣的外籍人士也可以做不在籍的通訊投票。我是認為那是因為臺灣是一個民主國家，我們不會去干涉你投票要投給誰什麼的，如果今天是在中國的話，是不是有可能會影響到投票的意志？影響到秘密投票的原則？"],["李主任委員進勇：在其他的國家也都一樣會有風險。"],["李委員坤城：都有風險。因為現在在野黨立委在提的就是希望在中國的臺商或臺生能夠用通訊投票的方式，但是我認為這個會影響到投票原則，第一個、秘密投票；第二個、有可能會影響到投票的自由意志。主委，你認為呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：是，這個也是我們最擔心的。"],["李委員坤城：我看今天國安局蔡局長有提到，通訊投票第一個，有資安的問題；第二個，會不會在投票過程當中自由意志受到影響，這也必須要考量的啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：是的。"],["李委員坤城：所以現在主委認為通訊投票在未來的時間裡面，我看在野黨有提出版本來了，如果通訊投票他們硬要完成三讀，因為他們現在人數多，請問一下中選會有沒有窒礙難行的地方？有沒有其他因應的策略？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們希望選制的變更大家都以非常審慎的態度來進行……"],["李委員坤城：我們是這樣認為，但在野黨不是這麼認為嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：因為選制的變更、重大變革可能會影響到選務的安定，如果選務出現瑕疵、出現錯誤、重大錯誤的話，這可能會影響到整個民主國家的根基，所以一定要用非常負責及謹慎的態度來……"],["李委員坤城：如果他們把這個通訊投票通過，怎麼辦？"],["李主任委員進勇：希望沒有如果啦！"],["李委員坤城：可是他們現在看起來是人數比較多啊！如果國民黨和民眾黨支持這個通訊投票的話，有沒有窒礙難行的地方……"],["李主任委員進勇：我們會把……"],["李委員坤城：你可以在中國設一個投開票所嗎？有辦法嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：不要說中國啦！即便是在我們有邦交的國家，都不見得會得到協助與支持。"],["李委員坤城：你說比如在美國、日本，也不一定。"],["李主任委員進勇：那是沒有邦交的國家，即使在有邦交的國家，我認為都會有相當的困難及風險。"],["李委員坤城：我認為最大的因素是在中國，因為中國不是一個民主國家，你剛才提的都還是民主國家，我覺得都還可以談，但是在中國的話，自由投票與秘密投票的原則我認為會被破壞掉。","第二個，你剛才有提到在公民投票是對事的投票，未來在對人的投票、一般選舉這方面會不會也適用不在籍投票……"],["李主任委員進勇：基本的方向是沒有錯的，但是一定要以穩健的腳步，次第地來推動，不能夠一步跨出去太大步……"],["李委員坤城：當然……"],["李主任委員進勇：因為這個會造成選務的困難……"],["李委員坤城：所以未來是有可能不在籍投票，譬如這種移轉投票是有可能從對事的投票到對人的投票。"],["李主任委員進勇：我們就希望能夠累積實施的經驗提供給選舉不在籍投票的一個參考。"],["李委員坤城：我認為如果選舉是對人的投票，這個移轉性的投票本席是可以支持的，但是如果是這種通訊投票，甚至未來用電子投票，我認為弊端都非常的多，本席認為在執行上面會造成困擾，對於現在投票過程的秘密投票、自由意志投票，也都會受到影響……"],["李主任委員進勇：好。"],["李委員坤城：請你們未來在推動類似的法案或是當在野黨有提出類似要求的時候，本於職權要說清楚。"],["李主任委員進勇：好，謝謝委員。"],["李委員坤城：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李坤城委員的質詢。","下一位鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","請黃珊珊委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":270,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-5","speakers":["吳琪銘","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","黃建賓","王美惠","徐欣瑩","黃捷","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra 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我們請李主委好 請李主委主委好 這個大家都很關心 這個你們所提出來公民投票的這個不在籍投票法的法案 是的然後我發現這個當然在野黨也有提出這個不在籍投票法然後主席先 本席先請教一下這個主委"},{"start":28.042,"end":45.916,"text":"這個你們送過來到立法院審查這一個全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的修法重點我認為第一個是對式的投票公民投票第二個就是說由投票權人本人親自在投票日的當日前往投票所投票"},{"start":46.636,"end":47.237,"text":"目前實施到現在有沒有出現什麼問題?"},{"start":77.439,"end":101.811,"text":"沒有出現問題沒有出現問題那這個是移轉投票就事先先登記是不是對事先要先登記事先先登記我要僑居國外的國民都是事先登記那現在這個我看有在野黨的這個立委他們有提案有兩個版本都是關於這個一般選舉的這是一般選舉的不在籍投票那我不曉得主委有沒有看過他們的這個投票這個他們那個提案的內容我有看過你認為說跟這個"},{"start":103.888,"end":125.009,"text":"公民投票不在籍投票的最大差異在哪裡我想不在籍投票的這個推動牽涉到兩個層面第一個就是說你這個適用的範圍到底到什麼地方我們現在的步驟就是從對市的公民投票開始適用建設的在能夠擴及到這個選舉這是適用的範圍"},{"start":128.212,"end":142.869,"text":"另外一個實施的方式不在籍投票的方式有很多現在被討論的包括通訊投票特色投開票所代理投票期間投票等等等你是不是一次的到位"},{"start":143.57,"end":146.131,"text":"本席認為這一黨立委所提案不再投票跟目前我們要推的這個不再投票最大差別應該在於通訊投票"},{"start":169.516,"end":194.255,"text":"通訊投票也有很多的亂象比如美國他們採用通訊投票在2020年的時候他們以這個總統大選通訊投票結果有開了四天到第四天票都還開不出來通訊投票的這在台灣沒辦法發生台灣當天晚上票都一定要開出來沒有辦法讓你容許四天因為美國太大了有這個delay四天這個結果還開不出來"},{"start":196.697,"end":221.365,"text":"當然通訊投票也不一定會提高投票率從美國總統大選來看也不一定會提高投票率第二個 郵寄的過程當中有太多機會可以做票沒辦法監票 沒辦法秘密投票比如說我剛剛看到有很多委員提到說在台灣也可以做外籍人士做不在籍的通訊投票"},{"start":222.125,"end":234.802,"text":"我是認為啦那是因為台灣是一個民主國家我們不會去干涉你說你這個投票你要投給誰阿什麼的如果今天是在中國的話是不是有可能這個會影響到這個投票的意志影響到這個秘密投票的原則"},{"start":235.751,"end":255.826,"text":"在其他的國家都一樣會有風險都會有風險那我認為因為現在在黨立委在提的就是在中國希望台商或是台生希望能夠用通訊投票的方式但是我認為啦我認為這個會影響到這個投票原則第一個秘密投票第二個有可能會影響到這個投票自由意志總委認為勒是這也是我們最擔心的"},{"start":258.444,"end":269.146,"text":"我看今天這個國安局蔡局長他有提到通訊投票第一個有資安的問題第二個會不會說這個在投票過程當中自由意志受到影響這也必須要考量的"},{"start":270.674,"end":276.176,"text":"主委認為通訊投票在未來的時間裡面 如果通訊投票因為他們現在人數多 要完成三讀 請問一下諸球會有沒有自然難行的地方 有沒有其他因應的策略"},{"start":293.991,"end":322.676,"text":"我們希望這個選制的一個變更希望大家都以非常審慎的態度來進行我們是這樣認為啦在野黨不是這麼認為嗎因為一個選制的變更重大的變革可能會影響到選務的安定那如果選務出現瑕疵出現錯誤的話重大的錯誤那這可能會影響到整個民主國家的根基所以一定要用非常負責跟審慎的態度如果他們把這個通訊投票通過怎麼辦"},{"start":323.875,"end":334.919,"text":"希望沒有如果可是他們現在看起來是人數是比較多如果國民黨跟民眾黨支持這個通訊投票的話有沒有資安人性地方你可以在中國設一個投胎票所嗎有辦法嗎不要說中國即便是在我們有邦交國的國家都不見得會得到協助跟支持"},{"start":343.991,"end":344.311,"text":"李坤城議員李坤城議員"},{"start":370.379,"end":398.745,"text":"那未來會不會這個在對人的投票一般人選舉這方面也會適用這個不在籍投票所以基本的方向基本的方向是沒有錯的但是一定要穩健的腳步啦徹底的來推動不能夠一步跨出去太大步未來是有可能不在籍投票比如說移轉投票是有可能從對事的投票到對人的投票我們就希望能夠累積實施的經驗提供給選舉不在籍投票的一個參考"},{"start":400.125,"end":425.797,"text":"我認為如果是對人的投票選舉對人的投票這個移轉性的投票本席是可以支持的但是如果是這種通訊投票甚至未來這個用這個電子投票我認為這個弊端都非常的多那本席在這邊我是認為說在執行上面會造成困擾也對於現在的這個投票過程秘密投票自由意志投票都會受到影響"},{"start":427.338,"end":427.678,"text":"李坤城委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:18:59.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:18:59.895000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請李主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-11T11:19:00.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:19:00.095000+08:00","text":"請李主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:19:00.095000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:19:01.095000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:19:00.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:19:00.415000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:19:00.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:19:01.416000+08:00","text":"大家都很關心你們所提出來的公民投票的不在籍投票法的法案……是的。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:19:01.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:19:42.315000+08:00","text":"我發現在野黨也有提出不在籍投票法，本席先請教一下主委，你們送過來到立法院審查的全國性公民投票不在籍投票法的修法重點，我認為第一個，公民投票就是對事的投票；第二個就是由投票權人本人，親自在投票日當日前往投票所投票，這是一個移轉的投票，可以兼顧投票的秘密性，還有投票結果的公平性。","quality":0.703},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:19:42.315000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:19:43.315000+08:00","text":"請問一下，現在這種移轉投票是不是已經有部分在實施了？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:19:43.315000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:19:44.315000+08:00","text":"有的，有兩種狀況，一個就是投開票所的選務工作人員，他可以移轉投票；第二個就是僑居國外的中華民國國民，他們申請回國來選舉總統、副總統，那也是另外一種移轉投票。","quality":0.029},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:19:43.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:19:44.237000+08:00","text":"目前實施到現在有沒有出現什麼問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:14.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:14.900000+08:00","text":"沒有出現問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:14.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:16.560000+08:00","text":"沒有出現問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:16.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:17.560000+08:00","text":"沒有出現問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:16.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:19.162000+08:00","text":"好，這個是移轉投票，就事先先登記，是不是？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:20.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:21.283000+08:00","text":"對，事先要先登記……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:21.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:22.083000+08:00","text":"事先先登記。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:22.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:24.724000+08:00","text":"包括僑居國外的國民都是事先登記。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:24.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:37.831000+08:00","text":"好，現在我看在野黨的立委有提案，有兩個版本，都是關於一般選舉的不在籍投票，我不曉得主委有沒有看過他們提案的內容？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:38.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:38.731000+08:00","text":"我有看過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:38.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:20:44.692000+08:00","text":"你認為和公民投票的不在籍投票的最大差異在哪裡？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:20:44.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:21:19.849000+08:00","text":"我想不在籍投票的推動牽涉到兩個層面，第一個就是適用的範圍到底到什麼地方，我們現在的步驟就是從對事的公民投票開始適用，漸次地再能夠擴及到選舉，這是適用的範圍；另外一個是實施的方式，因為不在籍投票的方式有很多，現在被討論的包括通訊投票、特設投開票所、代理投票、提前投票等等，你是不是一次都到位？","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:21:19.849000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:21:20.849000+08:00","text":"有沒有什麼困難？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:21:20.849000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:21:21.849000+08:00","text":"我們的步驟是從我們已經有實施經驗的移轉投票來開始實施，根據這個實施的經驗，我們再逐漸地來檢討、推廣到其他可能的方式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:21:20.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:21:23.111000+08:00","text":"本席認為在野黨立委所提案的不在籍投票和目前我們要推的這個不在籍投票最大的差別應該在於通訊投票……是。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:21:46.516000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:21:46.977000+08:00","text":"是通訊投票。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:21:49.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:22:11.255000+08:00","text":"通訊投票其實也有很多的亂象，我舉美國為例，他們採用通訊投票，在2020年的時候他們的總統大選採用通訊投票，結果開了4天，到第4天票都還開不出來，這是臺灣沒辦法發生的，臺灣當天晚上票都一定要開出來，沒有辦法容許4天，因為美國太大了，delay4天，結果還開不出來。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:22:13.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:22:23.060000+08:00","text":"當然通訊投票也不一定會提高投票率，從美國總統大選來看，也不一定會提高投票率。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:22:23.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:22:38.345000+08:00","text":"第二個，郵寄的過程當中有太多機會可以作票，沒有辦法監票，沒有辦法秘密投票，譬如我剛才看到有很多委員提到在臺灣的外籍人士也可以做不在籍的通訊投票。","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:22:39.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:22:50.320000+08:00","text":"我是認為那是因為臺灣是一個民主國家，我們不會去干涉你投票要投給誰什麼的，如果今天是在中國的話，是不是有可能會影響到投票的意志？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:22:50.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:22:51.802000+08:00","text":"影響到秘密投票的原則？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:22:52.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:22:55.533000+08:00","text":"在其他的國家也都一樣會有風險。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:22:55.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:22:56.074000+08:00","text":"都有風險。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:22:56.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:23:11.805000+08:00","text":"因為現在在野黨立委在提的就是希望在中國的臺商或臺生能夠用通訊投票的方式，但是我認為這個會影響到投票原則，第一個、秘密投票；第二個、有可能會影響到投票的自由意志。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:23:12.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:23:12.326000+08:00","text":"主委，你認為呢？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:23:12.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:23:12.806000+08:00","text":"是，這個也是我們最擔心的。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:23:15.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:23:26.126000+08:00","text":"我看今天國安局蔡局長有提到，通訊投票第一個，有資安的問題；第二個，會不會在投票過程當中自由意志受到影響，這也必須要考量的啊！是的。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:23:27.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:23:31.715000+08:00","text":"所以現在主委認為通訊投票在未來的時間裡面，我看在野黨有提出版本來了，如果通訊投票他們硬要完成三讀，因為他們現在人數多，請問一下中選會有沒有窒礙難行的地方？","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:23:31.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:23:33.156000+08:00","text":"有沒有其他因應的策略？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:23:50.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:23:57.992000+08:00","text":"我們希望選制的變更大家都以非常審慎的態度來進行……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:23:58.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:00.493000+08:00","text":"我們是這樣認為，但在野黨不是這麼認為嘛！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:00.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:16.375000+08:00","text":"因為選制的變更、重大變革可能會影響到選務的安定，如果選務出現瑕疵、出現錯誤、重大錯誤的話，這可能會影響到整個民主國家的根基，所以一定要用非常負責及謹慎的態度來……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:17.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:19.676000+08:00","text":"如果他們把這個通訊投票通過，怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:20.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:21.495000+08:00","text":"希望沒有如果啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:23.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:24.976000+08:00","text":"可是他們現在看起來是人數比較多啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:25.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:29.058000+08:00","text":"如果國民黨和民眾黨支持這個通訊投票的話，有沒有窒礙難行的地方……","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:29.058000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:30.058000+08:00","text":"我們會把……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:29.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:30.638000+08:00","text":"你可以在中國設一個投開票所嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:30.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:30.678000+08:00","text":"有辦法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:30.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:30.819000+08:00","text":"不要說中國啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:30.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:31.899000+08:00","text":"即便是在我們有邦交的國家，都不見得會得到協助與支持。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:31.899000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:43.812333+08:00","text":"你說比如在美國、日本，也不一定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:43.812333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:24:55.725667+08:00","text":"那是沒有邦交的國家，即使在有邦交的國家，我認為都會有相當的困難及風險。","quality":0.031},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:24:55.725667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:25:07.639000+08:00","text":"我認為最大的因素是在中國，因為中國不是一個民主國家，你剛才提的都還是民主國家，我覺得都還可以談，但是在中國的話，自由投票與秘密投票的原則我認為會被破壞掉。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:25:07.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:25:13.020000+08:00","text":"第二個，你剛才有提到在公民投票是對事的投票，未來在對人的投票、一般選舉這方面會不會也適用不在籍投票……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:25:15.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:25:24.603000+08:00","text":"基本的方向是沒有錯的，但是一定要以穩健的腳步，次第地來推動，不能夠一步跨出去太大步……當然……","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:25:24.603000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:25:25.603000+08:00","text":"因為這個會造成選務的困難……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:25:24.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:25:30.684000+08:00","text":"所以未來是有可能不在籍投票，譬如這種移轉投票是有可能從對事的投票到對人的投票。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:25:30.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:25:35.725000+08:00","text":"我們就希望能夠累積實施的經驗提供給選舉不在籍投票的一個參考。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:25:37.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:26:02.797000+08:00","text":"我認為如果選舉是對人的投票，這個移轉性的投票本席是可以支持的，但是如果是這種通訊投票，甚至未來用電子投票，我認為弊端都非常的多，本席認為在執行上面會造成困擾，對於現在投票過程的秘密投票、自由意志投票，也都會受到影響……好。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:26:02.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:26:03.797000+08:00","text":"請你們未來在推動類似的法案或是當在野黨有提出類似要求的時候，本於職權要說清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2024-03-11T11:26:03.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:26:04.797000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李委員坤城","start":"2024-03-11T11:26:04.797000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:26:05.797000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-11T11:26:04.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-11T11:26:04.678000+08:00","text":"謝謝李坤城委員的質詢。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-11T11:26:05.178000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:26:12.320857+08:00","text":"下一位鍾佳濱委員，鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-11T11:26:12.620857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-11T11:26:14.906571+08:00","text":"請黃珊珊委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}