{"error":false,"id":["149933"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149933,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149933","日期":"2024-03-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第5次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第5次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-15T11:03:01+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-15T11:19:17+08:00","影片長度":"00:16:16","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/02d71021be190f0f56e5b0f73269e3e1b7179bdd53e9838df8ba9b0039caa7a603e0b134b6616cf05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"顏寬恒","委員發言時間":"11:03:01 - 11:19:17","會議時間":"2024-03-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第5次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月19日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":886,"blocks":[["顏委員寬恒：（11時3分）主席、各位列席官員，大家好。主席，我想請行政院陳院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：顏委員早安，恭喜你當選立委。"],["顏委員寬恒：謝謝院長。院長，我們今天是總質詢，這個部分你看一下，有去過吧？"],["陳院長建仁：我去過，鳥嘴潭人工湖。"],["顏委員寬恒：對，鳥嘴潭人工湖，6個湖區在112年年底已經完工，這是為了供應、穩定彰化及南投地區的用水，完工後每天可以供應彰化21萬噸、南投草屯區大概4萬噸的用水，它就蓋在我們的烏溪。人工湖的部分，其淨水場也是蓋在霧峰區，當初在霧峰興建鳥嘴潭人工湖的時候，剛好碰上了枯水期，在2023年3月，那時候碰上了枯水期，所以那時候霧峰區根本沒水可以灌溉農田，因此那時候實行輪區限水，居民直接把矛頭指向是鳥嘴潭設置人工湖，所以把這個水截走，雖然我們水利署後來有出面跟民眾說明，表示灌溉用水跟鳥嘴潭人工湖沒有直接的關係，但是我要表達的是我們在重大工程的過程當中，到底有沒有跟在地的民眾做一個很完善的、很完整的說明？有聽百姓的心聲嗎？尤其霧峰區是以農業為主，超過73%都是農業用地。其實地方在那邊、政府在那邊做什麼公共政策，民眾都不知道，直到這些工程車進進出出，這些大車在那邊出入，鄉親才知道原來淨水廠要蓋在我們這裡，原來鳥嘴潭要蓋人工湖。","我這邊還有一份資料，這是一個叫做臺中市公害防治協會出刊的，它說推動南臺中淨水廠，在民國111年6月28日，感謝立法院副院長、何欣純立委、林靜儀立委、水利署總工程師等等會勘。我想要請教院長，當時會勘邀請了誰？霧峰有多少位里長參加？公聽會開在哪個地方，你們知道嗎？可不可以說明？"],["陳院長建仁：這個是2022年的時候，我還沒有當行政院長。"],["王部長美花：水利署……"],["顏委員寬恒：水利署有報告嗎？有跟部長報告嗎？"],["王部長美花：這個比較細節，沒有特別掌握到這麼細節的東西。"],["陳院長建仁：我們在會後跟委員做說明。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，所以你們也不知道。我跟你講，這個不是水利署開的，而是事後才在網路上面流露出來的。據我所知，我們只有在7月4號的時候在霧峰區開過一次說明會，而且這個叫做施工前說明會，等於是112年的11月要開工，你們在112年的7月才開說明會，那個叫做告知，不是意見交流。當天那一場說明會我有在現場，造成群情激憤，現場亂哄哄的，沒有一個民眾願意接受我們水利署的說明。當時只通知了4個里的里長、4個里的辦公室，其他各位里長以及地方人士沒有接到通知。不光是這樣子，你們要在霧峰區蓋一個寬口井，要抽取伏流水，然後在農試所也蓋了一個淨水廠，把水抽到淨水廠去靜置，之後要送往大里跟太平。民眾不解的是霧峰剛好去年才碰上枯水期，沒有水可以灌溉，霧峰區1天只有2.1萬噸的民生用水在霧峰坑口的淨水廠，要供應霧峰區63,000人的用水。霧峰區的63,000人是戶籍人口，還有另外兩所科技大學，一個是朝陽科大、一個是亞洲大學，超過24,000名學生。所以光是一個日處理量21,000噸的淨水廠要供應給霧峰超過8萬人，這是不足的，大家都知道不夠。所以霧峰為什麼會反對，因為我們還有很多人口跟戶數都是在使用地下水。根據我手上的資料，到去年12月底我的選區──霧峰、烏日、大肚、龍井、沙鹿，霧峰區的自來水普及率只有82.1%，戶數21,453戶，總人口63,822人，按照換算，有3,910戶、11,484人沒有自來水可以用，接近兩成，這些人是沒有自來水可以用的。所以要在霧峰設置一個寬口井，要將霧峰的水運送到大里跟太平，成為大里跟太平的生活用水，然後霧峰區自己本身限水輪灌，然後又要讓霧峰去承受未來可能缺水、可能沒有水可以用的情況。所以霧峰在7月4號我說的水利署舉辦的那一場說明會，現場是非常的激動，絕對的反對。","我想要問的是，自來水是公共事業，霧峰區是我選區裡面自來水普及率最低的，只有82%，其他4個區的自來水普及率都超過95%，最高的99%。我可不可以要求，如果你要在霧峰區設置寬口井，要把伏流水抽到大里跟太平，可不可以相對的讓霧峰區可以享有更高的自來水供應，讓霧峰區有超過95%的自來水普及率？院長跟部長都在，可不可以做一個……"],["王部長美花：對相關的用水，我們增加相關的水源，一定會優先增加當地使用。第二個，無自來水部分我們也會逐步改善，現在水利署正在提明年開始的另外一個四年計畫，這個部分我們也會把它列到要改善的範圍之內。烏溪的部分，第一個，一定會優先考量霧峰的用水，還有民生跟農業，這個我們會多跟地方溝通。"],["顏委員寬恒：部長，我知道你講的是全部的用水計畫，包括伏流水，我們霧峰是在2期，2期包括霧峰的烏溪，問題是現在霧峰區是在我的整個選區裡面，在整個臺中市裡面，自來水普及率算是最低的。現在你要在一個自來水普及率最低的地方，而且全部的面積超過73%是農用的土地，他必須要灌溉，你卻要把伏流水淨化成民生用水送往大里跟太平。你沒有辦法找到水源提供當地，要把當地的水送到其他地方，又沒有辦法保證地方不缺水。我現在用白話講，不要讓霧峰成為二等公民。"],["王部長美花：不會。"],["陳院長建仁：不會。"],["王部長美花：我們一定會優先考慮。"],["顏委員寬恒：水、電、瓦斯……"],["陳院長建仁：會優先考慮提供。"],["顏委員寬恒：陽光、空氣，這些都是我們最基本的、每一個國人都應該享有的權利，所以我才說部長可不可以具體答應，我們開始著手提高霧峰區的自來水普及率，好不好？可不可以？"],["王部長美花：是，無自來水地區怎麼樣做好改善，這個我們一定會慎重考慮。"],["顏委員寬恒：一定會有改善計畫，可不可以給我一個具體的時間表？"],["王部長美花：相關的部分我會請同仁再跟委員報告。"],["顏委員寬恒：好，這個部分要拜託，因為我們真的是為民發聲，這個是鄉親最卑微的要求跟請求。","接下來請問院長，有沒有叫過外賣，像Uber Eats跟foodpanda？"],["陳院長建仁：沒有，我很少。"],["顏委員寬恒：你很少。"],["陳院長建仁：我太太煮飯。"],["顏委員寬恒：本身沒有，但是同事或者是同仁應該都有叫過外賣，也看過他們有享用這些外賣。"],["陳院長建仁：有。"],["顏委員寬恒：你知道全國的外送人員有多少人嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：外送人員的數目我不是很清楚。因為今天剛好是經濟組，勞動部不在這裡面，今天沒有出席，我會後請他們再提供你資料。"],["顏委員寬恒：我告訴院長，全國有14.5萬，平均每158個人就有1個外送員，不管是兼職或者是正職，人數相當可觀。你們知道他平均跑1單多少錢嗎？知道就講一下，不知道……"],["陳院長建仁：我不怎麼清楚。"],["顏委員寬恒：沒關係，我跟你說，本席看過外送平臺的社群網站，有外送員自己公布他的薪資所得，27.4個小時跑了112單，賺了7,390元，這27.4小時不是……非連續性的、非連續的。"],["陳院長建仁：我知道。"],["顏委員寬恒：所以平均為269元，這個部分算很高了，很多其他的外送員在底下留言表示非常佩服這個外送員。院長覺不覺得他薪水算高的，優不優渥？"],["陳院長建仁：按照他的平均時薪來看是高，但是也相當辛苦。"],["顏委員寬恒：是，各行各業都很辛苦，尤其外送員幫客戶節省等餐的時間、購買餐點往返的時間，以及交通過程當中可能承受的風險。我們常常在新聞上面看到，不管是外送員搶快自撞或者發生車禍，甚至於失去生命，還有摩托車自燃都有。現在消費者、顧客利用外送平臺，主要是為了節省這些潛在的消費成本，再加上這些因素，所以對外送員來講，這個報酬率真的不高。尤其在外送平臺上面點餐，實際上比我們到店家的餐點費用還要貴，而且要加上外送費，再加上服務費，最大的獲利者不是外送員，也不是店家，更不是消費者，而是這個外送平臺。院長，你認同？"],["王部長美花：每個人都有不同的角色，有不同的成本。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["顏委員寬恒：當然我知道，但是平臺是最大的獲利者，我想根據經濟部對外送平臺的統計，外送抽成大概在30%以上，30%到35%，所以他抽成越多，其他不管是外送員也好，店家也好，相對他們的利潤就降低了，所以他們只能超時工作，就是搶單、拉長工時、超時工作、疲勞駕駛等等，每一樣都要，衍生出來的風險就更高，而且他們不受勞基法的限制，外送也沒有雇主，所以他是在一個應該說是非常險峻的工作環境中。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["顏委員寬恒：沒有受到保障的工作環境，院長跟部長可不可以告訴我們如何提升和保障他們的工作環境？"],["陳院長建仁：我現在跟委員報告，勞動部現在的作法就是建立一個對話的平臺，我們來協助外送工會跟外送平臺業者來建立對話的平臺，在去年的7月到12月已經開過4次會議，雙方就停權申訴制度、報酬的資訊揭露、計算方式，還有職災的保險給付、申請等等，都有做過很好的溝通。當然委員幫外送員爭取更好的工作環境，這個我覺得很令人感動。"],["顏委員寬恒：謝謝院長，因為你說去年有4次的會議跟平臺業者做有效的對話，這部分真的要繼續做，而且要及時的介入，也要重視外送平臺是否有違反公平交易法。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["顏委員寬恒：因為不管抽成多少，利潤的創造都是平臺自己在決策，請問現在兩大平臺算不算壟斷？有沒有違反公平交易法？要請院長、部長……"],["陳院長建仁：我們會來加強協助雙方作定期的對話。"],["顏委員寬恒：接下來實質經常性薪資負成長，去年經常性薪資是45,496元，實質經常性為41,334元，雖然經常性薪資較去年增加2.43%，但實質卻降低了0.05%，連續3年負數；在總薪資方面，名目總薪資為58,545元，實際總薪資為53,189元，名目上增加了1.43%，實質上減少了1.04%，是7年來首次的負成長。薪水對員工來講，雖然我們目前在提高基本薪資加薪，但有加跟沒加一樣。會導致這種狀況的發生，我認為就是物價不斷的上漲，國人加薪、加班費還有獎金的調漲發放趕不上物價通膨的速度造成的，簡單講就是看得到吃不到，越加越窮，民眾的貧窮感越來越強大。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，你說的是對的，但是前兩、三年物價比較高，今年的物價指數會降低，然後我們的經濟成長率會增加，我相信今年會改善。"],["顏委員寬恒：院長，我問了主計長，主計長說漲了就回不去了啦！所以這是事實啦！"],["陳院長建仁：薪水也是，薪水加上去也是不會再降。"],["顏委員寬恒：不管怎樣，對於這些……"],["陳院長建仁：我們認真來努力讓經濟好一點，我們儘量把物價壓低。"],["顏委員寬恒：是啦，是啦，提高薪資，然後降低物價，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：對，一起努力。"],["主席：謝謝顏委員寬恒的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第11號陳委員玉珍質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":32,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-5","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-15"],"gazette_id":"1131001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131001_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1131001_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":8.316593750000003,"end":9.126593750000001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":9.36284375,"end":13.294718750000001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"韓院長國瑜","start":13.665968750000001,"is_chair":true,"end":14.864093750000002,"speaker_score":0.783},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":20.43284375,"end":22.238468750000003,"speaker_score":0.812},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":22.559093750000002,"end":23.94284375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":24.516593750000002,"end":25.15784375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":25.714718750000003,"end":27.469718750000002,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":28.17846875,"end":29.140343750000003,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":29.511593750000003,"end":29.96721875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":31.95846875,"end":32.24534375,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":32.51534375,"end":34.21971875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":33.612218750000004,"end":34.10159375,"speaker_score":0.812},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":34.21971875,"end":36.244718750000004,"speaker_score":0.812},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":36.244718750000004,"end":37.814093750000005,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":36.26159375,"end":36.49784375,"speaker_score":0.812},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":37.88159375,"end":56.76471875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"陳院長建仁","start":48.74909375,"end":48.765968750000006,"speaker_score":0.812},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":56.95034375,"end":58.82346875,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":59.14409375,"end":59.61659375000001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":59.633468750000006,"end":60.257843750000006,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":60.54471875,"end":61.945343750000006,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":62.67096875,"end":65.69159375000001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":66.82221875,"end":72.64409375000001,"speaker_score":0.913},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒",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陳院長備詢委員長早安恭喜你當選立委謝謝院長院長我們今天是總質詢"},{"start":32.574,"end":33.755,"text":"我去過,鳥嘴潭人工湖"},{"start":62.694,"end":81.341,"text":"的部分淨水場呢也蓋在霧日,這個霧峰,霧峰區。當初霧峰在興建這個鳥水潭人工湖的時候剛好碰上了枯水期。在2023年的3月那時候,就在那個大水期,所以那時候有網區根本沒有水塘淹殘。所以說那時候輪區,實行輪區限水。"},{"start":90.653,"end":114.567,"text":"指向鳥水潭設置人工湖所以把這個水截走所以我們那個水利署後來有這個出面跟民眾說說明說這個鳥水潭這個灌溉用水跟人工湖沒有直接的關係但是我要表達的是說我們在這個重大工程的過程當中到底有沒有跟在地的民眾做一個很"},{"start":115.467,"end":144.345,"text":"很完善的、很完整的這樣子的一個說明。要有聽這個背信的事情是什麼?尤其武汪區,武汪區是這個農業,農業為主,超過73%都是農業用地。那直到民眾其實地方在那邊,政府在那邊做什麼公共政策,民眾都不知道。直到這些工程車進進出出,這麼大的車子在那裡出力,鄉親才知道原來淨水場要蓋在我們這裡,原來鳥水潭要蓋人工。"},{"start":145.089,"end":170.531,"text":"所以這個部分我想請我另外還有一份資料這個是一個叫做臺中市公害防治協會推出的這個一個初刊他說推動南台中淨水廠在民國111年6月28日感謝立法院副院長何新淳立委林靜儀立委水利署總工程師等等"},{"start":171.457,"end":177.626,"text":"會刊那我想要請教院長當時會刊邀請了誰那悟風有多少位里長參加那這個"},{"start":181.072,"end":203.968,"text":"這個公聽會開在哪個地方,你們知道嗎?可不可以說明?這個是2022年的時候,我還沒有當。水利署有報告嗎?有跟部長報告嗎?這個比較細節,沒有特別掌握到這麼細節的東西。我們在會後跟委員做說明。所以你們也不知道,我跟你講,這個不是水利署開的。"},{"start":205.39,"end":212.009,"text":"這不是事後才在網路上面流露出來所以據我所知"},{"start":213.444,"end":235.936,"text":"我們只有在7月4號的時候在霧峰區開過一次說明會而且這個叫做施工前說明會等於是說112年的11月要開工你們在112年的7月才開說明會那個叫做告知不是意見交流所以當天那一場說明會我有在現場"},{"start":237.208,"end":257.536,"text":"那造成了群情的激憤,現場亂哄哄的,沒有一個民眾願意接受我們水利署的一個說明。當時只通知了4個里的里長,4個里的辦公室,其他的各位里長以及地方的人士沒有接到通知。那不光是這樣子,"},{"start":259.085,"end":288.46,"text":"因為你們要在霧峰區蓋一個這個叫做寬口井要抽取浮流水然後要把水在那個農事所也蓋了一個淨水場把水抽到淨水場去做淨製之後要送往大理跟太平所以民眾不解釋說霧峰剛好去年才碰上孤水期沒有水可以去灌溉那霧峰區一天只有2.1萬噸的蓄水就是這個民生用水在坑口"},{"start":290.157,"end":308.726,"text":"吳豐慶靠的淨水場要供應霧峰區6萬3千人的用水。霧峰區的6萬3千人是戶籍人口,還有另外兩所科技大學,一個是昭陽科大,一個是亞洲大學,超過2萬4千名學生。所以光是一個日處理量2萬1千噸的淨水場要供應給霧峰超過8萬人。"},{"start":314.214,"end":338.653,"text":"這是不足的,大家都知道不夠。所以霧峰為什麼他們反對?因為我們還有很多的人口跟戶數都是在使用地下水。根據我手上的資料,到去年12月底,我的選區霧峰、烏日、大渡、龍井、沙鹿以霧峰區它的自來水普及率只有82.1%"},{"start":341.355,"end":358.847,"text":"護宿兩萬一千四百五十三戶總人口六萬三千八百二十二人按照換算有三千九百一十戶一萬一千四百八十四沒有自來水可以用接近兩成這些人是沒有自來水可以用的所以"},{"start":359.937,"end":386.875,"text":"要在霧峰要來設置一個寬口井要將霧峰的水把它送到大理跟太平成為大理跟太平的生活用水然後霧峰區自己本身限水限輪灌然後又要讓霧峰去承受這個未來可能缺水可能沒有水可以用的情況所以霧峰在7月4日我說了7月4日的"},{"start":387.695,"end":412.845,"text":"我們水利署舉辦的那一場說明會現場是非常的激動,絕對的反對。那你們我想要問的是說,這個自來水是公共事業啦。你霧峰區是我選區裡面自來水補給率最低的只有82%,其他的其他的四個區都超過95%自來水補給率,更最高的99%"},{"start":414.326,"end":431.952,"text":"所以我可不可以要求說如果你要在霧峰區設置這個寬口井要把浮流水抽到大里跟太平可不可以相對的讓霧峰區可以享有一個更高的自來水供應讓霧峰區會有超過95%的自來水普及率"},{"start":432.532,"end":457.28,"text":"院長跟部長都在對相關的用水我們一定在當地的這個相關的增加水源一定會優先來增加當地的使用那第二個那個無自來水部分呢那這個部分我們也會來逐步改善那現在水利署正在提明年開始的另外一個四年計劃那這個部分呢我們也會把它列到要改善的範圍之內"},{"start":458.5,"end":482.171,"text":"但是呢這個霧溪的部分一定第一個一定會優先來考量霧峰的用水還有民生跟農業一定會那這個我們會多跟地方溝通我知道你啦我知道你講的是全部的我們的這個用水計畫包括浮流水我們霧峰是在二期二期是包括霧峰的霧溪但是問題是說"},{"start":483.735,"end":503.872,"text":"我們現在針對霧峰區在我的整個選區裡面在整個台中市裡面自來水普及率算是最低的那現在你要在一個自來水普及率最低的地方而且全部的面積超過73%是農業這個農用的土地然後呢他必須要灌溉那你要把他這個浮流水"},{"start":504.292,"end":534.292,"text":"﹗"},{"start":534.872,"end":558.443,"text":"每一個國人都應該享有的權利所以才說部長你會具體的答應就是說我們開始著手提高霧峰區的自來水普及好不好可不可以是他這個就會在無自來水地區怎麼樣做好改善這個我們一定會慎重來考慮一定會有改善計畫可不可以給我一個具體的時間表相關的部分我會請同仁再跟委員做報告是"},{"start":559.212,"end":564.859,"text":"好這個部分要拜託因為真的是我們是為民發聲這個是鄉親最卑微的要求跟請求"},{"start":567.191,"end":593.429,"text":"接下來我想請問院長,院長有沒有叫過外賣?像Uber Eats跟福建打這個?沒有欸,我很少。本身沒有,但是同事或者是我們這些同仁應該都有叫過外賣,也看過他們想用這些外賣。那你知道外賣有多少人嗎?外送人員?外送人員的這個數目我不是很清楚,因為今天剛好是經濟組,我們勞動部的"},{"start":596.738,"end":604.081,"text":"我告訴院長14.5萬,全國有14.5萬,那平均每158個人就有一個外送員,不管是兼職或者是正職,那這個人數相當可觀,那你們知道他平均跑一單多少錢嗎?知道就講一下,我不知道,沒關係我告訴你,"},{"start":623.14,"end":630.083,"text":"本席看過這個外送平台的社群網站有外送員自己公布他的薪資所得27.4個小時跑了112單賺了7390這27.4小時不是非連續性的所以平均為269"},{"start":640.487,"end":643.21,"text":"按照他的平均時薪來看是高啦但是也是相當的辛苦"},{"start":658.263,"end":682.611,"text":"是啦,因為我說各行各業都很辛苦啦,尤其外送員是幫客戶節省一下等餐的時間、買餐、購買餐的往返的時間、交通過程當中可能承受的風險。這些東西,我們常常在新聞上面都看到,不管是外送員搶快、智撞或者是發生車禍,甚至於失去生命,還有那個摩托車自燃,自己燒起來。"},{"start":683.211,"end":712.234,"text":"吼那個都有啦吼所以現在消費者顧客利用外送平台主要是為了節省這些潛在的消費成本再加上這些因素所以我想對外送人來講這個報酬率不高真的不高尤其在這個外送平台上面點餐他實際上比本身店家實際我們到店家的這個餐點費用還要貴而且要加上外送費再加上服務費最大的獲益者"},{"start":713.288,"end":739.919,"text":"不是外送員,也不是店家,更不是消費者,是這個外送平台。院長你認同?每個人都有不同的角色,有不同的成本。當然我知道,但是平台是最大的獲利者。那我想根據經濟部你們這個外送平台的一個統計,外送抽成大概在30%以上,30到35,30到35。"},{"start":743.353,"end":743.373,"text":"﹚顏寬恒"},{"start":772.923,"end":797.759,"text":"應該是講說是一個非常險峻的一個工作環境。沒有受到保障的工作環境。院長跟部長可不可以告訴我們如何提升、如何保障他們的工作環境。我現在跟委員報告。勞動部現在的做法就是建立一個對話的平台。我們來協助外送工會跟外送平台業者來建立對話的平台。"},{"start":799.22,"end":820.373,"text":"昨年的7月到12月已經有開過4次的會議了那雙方就停權申訴制度還有報酬的資訊接入還有計算方式還有職災的保險給付申請等等都有做過一個很好的溝通那當然委員幫外送員要來爭取更好的工作環境這個我覺得"},{"start":822.976,"end":840.874,"text":"謝謝,謝謝院長,也謝謝,因為你說去年有4次的會議,那跟這個平台做有效的對話,這部分也感謝,要繼續做,真的要繼續做,要及時的介入,那要重視外送平台是否有違反公平交易法。"},{"start":841.314,"end":843.776,"text":"我們會來加強協助雙方都有定期的對話"},{"start":864.145,"end":875.576,"text":"實質性經常性薪資的一個復成長那去年經常性薪資是45496實質經常性為41334那雖然經常性薪資較去年增加2.43但實質卻降低了0.05%連續三年複數在總薪資方面明目總薪資為五萬"},{"start":884.824,"end":905.769,"text":"五八五四五實際總薪資為五三一八九明目上增加了1.43實質上減少了1.04是七年來首次的負成長那薪水對員工來講這個加薪我們目前現在在提高基本薪資加薪有加跟沒加一樣那導致這種狀況的發生我認為就是物價不斷的上漲"},{"start":910.629,"end":926.092,"text":"委員加薪加班費還有這些獎金的這個發放條長發放趕不上物價通膨的速度那簡單講看得到吃不到越加越窮平衡感越來越強大這個民眾的平衡感"},{"start":943.916,"end":963.695,"text":"響鐘"},{"start":965.794,"end":968.198,"text":"謝謝。謝謝顏委員寬恒的質詢。也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第三號陳委員喻珍質詢。"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:03:09.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:03:11.943000+08:00","text":"主席、各位列席官員，大家好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:03:12.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:03:14.724000+08:00","text":"主席，我想請行政院陳院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-15T11:03:14.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:03:21.607000+08:00","text":"再請陳院長備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:03:21.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:03:23.088000+08:00","text":"顏委員早安，恭喜你當選立委。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:03:24.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:03:25.789000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:03:25.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:03:28.050000+08:00","text":"院長，我們今天是總質詢，這個部分你看一下，有去過吧？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:03:33.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:03:34.735000+08:00","text":"我去過，鳥嘴潭人工湖。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:03:34.735000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:04:03.694000+08:00","text":"對，鳥嘴潭人工湖，6個湖區在112年年底已經完工，這是為了供應、穩定彰化及南投地區的用水，完工後每天可以供應彰化21萬噸、南投草屯區大概4萬噸的用水，它就蓋在我們的烏溪。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:04:03.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:04:59.589000+08:00","text":"人工湖的部分，其淨水場也是蓋在霧峰區，當初在霧峰興建鳥嘴潭人工湖的時候，剛好碰上了枯水期，在2023年3月，那時候碰上了枯水期，所以那時候霧峰區根本沒水可以灌溉農田，因此那時候實行輪區限水，居民直接把矛頭指向是鳥嘴潭設置人工湖，所以把這個水截走，雖然我們水利署後來有出面跟民眾說明，表示灌溉用水跟鳥嘴潭人工湖沒有直接的關係，但是我要表達的是我們在重大工程的過程當中，到底有沒有跟在地的民眾做一個很完善的、很完整的說明？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:05:00.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:05:01.290000+08:00","text":"有聽百姓的心聲嗎？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:05:01.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:05:09.495000+08:00","text":"尤其霧峰區是以農業為主，超過73%都是農業用地。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:05:11.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:05:25.325000+08:00","text":"其實地方在那邊、政府在那邊做什麼公共政策，民眾都不知道，直到這些工程車進進出出，這些大車在那邊出入，鄉親才知道原來淨水廠要蓋在我們這裡，原來鳥嘴潭要蓋人工湖。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:05:26.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:05:52.457000+08:00","text":"我這邊還有一份資料，這是一個叫做臺中市公害防治協會出刊的，它說推動南臺中淨水廠，在民國111年6月28日，感謝立法院副院長、何欣純立委、林靜儀立委、水利署總工程師等等會勘。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:05:53.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:05:56.363000+08:00","text":"我想要請教院長，當時會勘邀請了誰？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:05:56.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:05:57.945000+08:00","text":"霧峰有多少位里長參加？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:02.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:04.434000+08:00","text":"公聽會開在哪個地方，你們知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:04.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:04.894000+08:00","text":"可不可以說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:05.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:10.738000+08:00","text":"這個是2022年的時候，我還沒有當行政院長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:10.738000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:11.738000+08:00","text":"水利署……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:10.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:13+08:00","text":"水利署有報告嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:13+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:14.521000+08:00","text":"有跟部長報告嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:14.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:17.102000+08:00","text":"這個比較細節，沒有特別掌握到這麼細節的東西。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:17.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:20.605000+08:00","text":"我們在會後跟委員做說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:21.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:22.526000+08:00","text":"好，所以你們也不知道。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:22.966000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:31.565000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，這個不是水利署開的，而是事後才在網路上面流露出來的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:32.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:06:53.834000+08:00","text":"據我所知，我們只有在7月4號的時候在霧峰區開過一次說明會，而且這個叫做施工前說明會，等於是112年的11月要開工，你們在112年的7月才開說明會，那個叫做告知，不是意見交流。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:06:55.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:07:06.651000+08:00","text":"當天那一場說明會我有在現場，造成群情激憤，現場亂哄哄的，沒有一個民眾願意接受我們水利署的說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:07:08.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:07:17.095000+08:00","text":"當時只通知了4個里的里長、4個里的辦公室，其他各位里長以及地方人士沒有接到通知。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:07:18.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:07:36.053000+08:00","text":"不光是這樣子，你們要在霧峰區蓋一個寬口井，要抽取伏流水，然後在農試所也蓋了一個淨水廠，把水抽到淨水廠去靜置，之後要送往大里跟太平。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:07:36.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:07:55.820000+08:00","text":"民眾不解的是霧峰剛好去年才碰上枯水期，沒有水可以灌溉，霧峰區1天只有2.1萬噸的民生用水在霧峰坑口的淨水廠，要供應霧峰區63,000人的用水。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:07:56.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:08:06.225000+08:00","text":"霧峰區的63,000人是戶籍人口，還有另外兩所科技大學，一個是朝陽科大、一個是亞洲大學，超過24,000名學生。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:08:07.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:08:17.315000+08:00","text":"所以光是一個日處理量21,000噸的淨水廠要供應給霧峰超過8萬人，這是不足的，大家都知道不夠。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:08:17.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:08:25.101000+08:00","text":"所以霧峰為什麼會反對，因為我們還有很多人口跟戶數都是在使用地下水。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:08:26.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:08:58.866000+08:00","text":"根據我手上的資料，到去年12月底我的選區──霧峰、烏日、大肚、龍井、沙鹿，霧峰區的自來水普及率只有82.1%，戶數21,453戶，總人口63,822人，按照換算，有3,910戶、11,484人沒有自來水可以用，接近兩成，這些人是沒有自來水可以用的。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:08:59.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:09:24.693000+08:00","text":"所以要在霧峰設置一個寬口井，要將霧峰的水運送到大里跟太平，成為大里跟太平的生活用水，然後霧峰區自己本身限水輪灌，然後又要讓霧峰去承受未來可能缺水、可能沒有水可以用的情況。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:09:24.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:09:35.978000+08:00","text":"所以霧峰在7月4號我說的水利署舉辦的那一場說明會，現場是非常的激動，絕對的反對。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:09:36.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:09:53.845000+08:00","text":"我想要問的是，自來水是公共事業，霧峰區是我選區裡面自來水普及率最低的，只有82%，其他4個區的自來水普及率都超過95%，最高的99%。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:09:55.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:10:12.932000+08:00","text":"我可不可以要求，如果你要在霧峰區設置寬口井，要把伏流水抽到大里跟太平，可不可以相對的讓霧峰區可以享有更高的自來水供應，讓霧峰區有超過95%的自來水普及率？","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:10:13.532000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:10:14.732000+08:00","text":"院長跟部長都在，可不可以做一個……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:10:16.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:10:23.935000+08:00","text":"對相關的用水，我們增加相關的水源，一定會優先增加當地使用。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:10:24.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:10:38.280000+08:00","text":"第二個，無自來水部分我們也會逐步改善，現在水利署正在提明年開始的另外一個四年計畫，這個部分我們也會把它列到要改善的範圍之內。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:10:41.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:10:51.485000+08:00","text":"烏溪的部分，第一個，一定會優先考量霧峰的用水，還有民生跟農業，這個我們會多跟地方溝通。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:10:54.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:11:11.401000+08:00","text":"部長，我知道你講的是全部的用水計畫，包括伏流水，我們霧峰是在2期，2期包括霧峰的烏溪，問題是現在霧峰區是在我的整個選區裡面，在整個臺中市裡面，自來水普及率算是最低的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:11:12.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:11:24.852000+08:00","text":"現在你要在一個自來水普及率最低的地方，而且全部的面積超過73%是農用的土地，他必須要灌溉，你卻要把伏流水淨化成民生用水送往大里跟太平。","quality":0.738},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:11:24.852000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:11:31.056000+08:00","text":"你沒有辦法找到水源提供當地，要把當地的水送到其他地方，又沒有辦法保證地方不缺水。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:11:31.056000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:11:37.260000+08:00","text":"我現在用白話講，不要讓霧峰成為二等公民。不會。不會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:11:37.260000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:11:43.464000+08:00","text":"我們一定會優先考慮。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:11:43.464000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:11:49.668000+08:00","text":"水、電、瓦斯……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:11:49.668000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:11:55.872000+08:00","text":"會優先考慮提供。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:11:55.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:04.756000+08:00","text":"陽光、空氣，這些都是我們最基本的、每一個國人都應該享有的權利，所以我才說部長可不可以具體答應，我們開始著手提高霧峰區的自來水普及率，好不好？","quality":0.683},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:04.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:05.296000+08:00","text":"可不可以？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:05.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:11.539000+08:00","text":"是，無自來水地區怎麼樣做好改善，這個我們一定會慎重考慮。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:11.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:14.861000+08:00","text":"一定會有改善計畫，可不可以給我一個具體的時間表？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:16.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:19.063000+08:00","text":"相關的部分我會請同仁再跟委員報告。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:20.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:25.839000+08:00","text":"好，這個部分要拜託，因為我們真的是為民發聲，這個是鄉親最卑微的要求跟請求。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:28.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:32.074000+08:00","text":"接下來請問院長，有沒有叫過外賣，像Uber Eats跟foodpanda？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:32.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:33.215000+08:00","text":"沒有，我很少。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:33.215000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:34.215000+08:00","text":"你很少。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:34.215000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:35.215000+08:00","text":"我太太煮飯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:34.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:44.562000+08:00","text":"本身沒有，但是同事或者是同仁應該都有叫過外賣，也看過他們有享用這些外賣。有。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:44.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:47.324000+08:00","text":"你知道全國的外送人員有多少人嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:48.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:51.907000+08:00","text":"外送人員的數目我不是很清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:52.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:12:53.909000+08:00","text":"因為今天剛好是經濟組，勞動部不在這裡面，今天沒有出席，我會後請他們再提供你資料。","quality":0.361},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:12:57.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:01.180000+08:00","text":"我告訴院長，全國有14.5萬，平均每158個人就有1個外送員，不管是兼職或者是正職，人數相當可觀。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:01.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:02.220000+08:00","text":"你們知道他平均跑1單多少錢嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:02.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:03.841000+08:00","text":"知道就講一下，不知道……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:03.841000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:04.841000+08:00","text":"我不怎麼清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:04.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:30.703000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我跟你說，本席看過外送平臺的社群網站，有外送員自己公布他的薪資所得，27.4個小時跑了112單，賺了7,390元，這27.4小時不是……非連續性的、非連續的。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:30.703000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:34.297667+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:34.297667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:37.892333+08:00","text":"所以平均為269元，這個部分算很高了，很多其他的外送員在底下留言表示非常佩服這個外送員。","quality":0.132},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:37.892333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:41.487000+08:00","text":"院長覺不覺得他薪水算高的，優不優渥？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:41.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:13:44.190000+08:00","text":"按照他的平均時薪來看是高，但是也相當辛苦。","quality":1},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:13:59.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:14:11.927000+08:00","text":"是，各行各業都很辛苦，尤其外送員幫客戶節省等餐的時間、購買餐點往返的時間，以及交通過程當中可能承受的風險。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:14:12.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:14:24.832000+08:00","text":"我們常常在新聞上面看到，不管是外送員搶快自撞或者發生車禍，甚至於失去生命，還有摩托車自燃都有。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:14:27.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:14:38.663000+08:00","text":"現在消費者、顧客利用外送平臺，主要是為了節省這些潛在的消費成本，再加上這些因素，所以對外送員來講，這個報酬率真的不高。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:14:39.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:15:00.470000+08:00","text":"尤其在外送平臺上面點餐，實際上比我們到店家的餐點費用還要貴，而且要加上外送費，再加上服務費，最大的獲利者不是外送員，也不是店家，更不是消費者，而是這個外送平臺。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:15:01.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:15:02.091000+08:00","text":"院長，你認同？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-03-15T11:15:03.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:15:07.333000+08:00","text":"每個人都有不同的角色，有不同的成本。對。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:15:07.453000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:15:58.346000+08:00","text":"當然我知道，但是平臺是最大的獲利者，我想根據經濟部對外送平臺的統計，外送抽成大概在30%以上，30%到35%，所以他抽成越多，其他不管是外送員也好，店家也好，相對他們的利潤就降低了，所以他們只能超時工作，就是搶單、拉長工時、超時工作、疲勞駕駛等等，每一樣都要，衍生出來的風險就更高，而且他們不受勞基法的限制，外送也沒有雇主，所以他是在一個應該說是非常險峻的工作環境中。對。","quality":0.338},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:15:59.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:16:06.812000+08:00","text":"沒有受到保障的工作環境，院長跟部長可不可以告訴我們如何提升和保障他們的工作環境？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:16:07.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:16:36.771000+08:00","text":"我現在跟委員報告，勞動部現在的作法就是建立一個對話的平臺，我們來協助外送工會跟外送平臺業者來建立對話的平臺，在去年的7月到12月已經開過4次會議，雙方就停權申訴制度、報酬的資訊揭露、計算方式，還有職災的保險給付、申請等等，都有做過很好的溝通。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:16:37.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:16:41.353000+08:00","text":"當然委員幫外送員爭取更好的工作環境，這個我覺得很令人感動。","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:16:43.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:17:01.854000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長，因為你說去年有4次的會議跟平臺業者做有效的對話，這部分真的要繼續做，而且要及時的介入，也要重視外送平臺是否有違反公平交易法。對。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:17:01.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:17:02.854000+08:00","text":"因為不管抽成多少，利潤的創造都是平臺自己在決策，請問現在兩大平臺算不算壟斷？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:17:02.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:17:03.854000+08:00","text":"有沒有違反公平交易法？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:17:03.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:17:04.854000+08:00","text":"要請院長、部長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:17:02.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:17:04.776000+08:00","text":"我們會來加強協助雙方作定期的對話。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:17:25.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:17:57.027000+08:00","text":"接下來實質經常性薪資負成長，去年經常性薪資是45,496元，實質經常性為41,334元，雖然經常性薪資較去年增加2.43%，但實質卻降低了0.05%，連續3年負數；在總薪資方面，名目總薪資為58,545元，實際總薪資為53,189元，名目上增加了1.43%，實質上減少了1.04%，是7年來首次的負成長。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:17:57.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:18:04.528000+08:00","text":"薪水對員工來講，雖然我們目前在提高基本薪資加薪，但有加跟沒加一樣。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:18:04.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:18:25.469000+08:00","text":"會導致這種狀況的發生，我認為就是物價不斷的上漲，國人加薪、加班費還有獎金的調漲發放趕不上物價通膨的速度造成的，簡單講就是看得到吃不到，越加越窮，民眾的貧窮感越來越強大。","quality":0.805},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:18:25.469000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:18:30.634625+08:00","text":"委員，你說的是對的，但是前兩、三年物價比較高，今年的物價指數會降低，然後我們的經濟成長率會增加，我相信今年會改善。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:18:30.634625+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:18:35.800250+08:00","text":"院長，我問了主計長，主計長說漲了就回不去了啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:18:35.800250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:18:40.965875+08:00","text":"所以這是事實啦！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:18:40.965875+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:18:46.131500+08:00","text":"薪水也是，薪水加上去也是不會再降。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:18:46.131500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:18:51.297125+08:00","text":"不管怎樣，對於這些……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:18:51.297125+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:18:56.462750+08:00","text":"我們認真來努力讓經濟好一點，我們儘量把物價壓低。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顏委員寬恒","start":"2024-03-15T11:18:56.462750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:19:01.628375+08:00","text":"是啦，是啦，提高薪資，然後降低物價，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-15T11:19:01.628375+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-15T11:19:06.794000+08:00","text":"對，一起努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-15T11:19:06.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:19:07.615000+08:00","text":"謝謝顏委員寬恒的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-15T11:19:07.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-15T11:19:09.198000+08:00","text":"接下來請登記第11號陳委員玉珍質詢。","quality":0.933}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}