{"error":false,"id":["150152"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150152,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150152","日期":"2024-03-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-20T11:40:39+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-20T11:47:41+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:02","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f19211ef5b99c3ffa3301a6f552d80ae54d4f8ba9b0039caa7a6f151987b109fadff5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:40:39 - 11:47:41","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽章法修正草案」案。\n【第一案如經院會復議，則不予審查。】\n【本日僅進行詢答】\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":720,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時40分）主席，謝謝。麻煩請唐鳳部長。"],["主席：請唐部長。"],["唐部長鳳：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長好。部長，關於電子簽章法，本席也認為這已經不是現在應不應該做，而是早就應該做了，現在來推真的都還有點晚了。不過除了電子簽章法，其實我們應該要更超前部署，歐盟最近剛通過AI基本法──就是人工智慧基本法，本席最近也一直在倡議，從去年的好萊塢大罷工事件，大家對於生成式AI有很多不同的想法，未知的東西本來就比較需要有一個導引、一個方向。","你剛剛也有被媒體問到，昨天葛委員做一部生成式AI的影片，然後詢問行政院長到底哪一個是真、哪一個是假。其實本席認為這凸顯一個問題，什麼問題？原來要複製一個人的影像、生成影片，讓影片中的人從他嘴巴講出那個話，有那麼容易，而且那麼栩栩如生。我們甚至有看到一些反詐騙的廣告，片中媽媽在跟女兒視訊，然後那個女兒明明就是一樣的臉、講一樣的話，然後就說他現在發生車禍，請媽媽趕快匯款，結果突然間門鈴「叮咚」一響，門一打開，女兒進來了，那個媽媽才知道原來他一直在視訊的女兒是AI、是假的、是詐騙集團。好，所以針對人工智慧基本法，本席有問國科會，吳主委說年底應該會推出來，請教部長，國科會有沒有跟數發部來溝通討論？"],["唐部長鳳：是，謝謝委員。我有看委員的記者會的說明，包含兼顧產業發展跟權利保護等等，我都非常同意，因為我也是國科會的成員，所以在這個討論裡面，包含公部門的使用的界線等等，我們都有持續跟國科會在討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：我現在請問一下進度在哪裡？有沒有草案內容已經成型去做討論的法條部分？還是現在都還是在霧裡看花、都還是在空中樓閣？年底就要出來了，而且年底出來到底是出國科會還是可以出行政院？我們都不知道，可是立法院這邊都已經有各委員的版本開始陸續出來了，那人工智慧基本法相對來講應該是重要的吧？"],["唐部長鳳：我有看委員的版本，看起來也不完全是歐盟的那一個架構，看起來比較接近美國的或日本的架構。"],["洪委員孟楷：是。"],["唐部長鳳：那我想這個架構的方向，我們之前在討論的時候，就是有歐盟的或是美、日相關的架構進行內部討論，所以委員問說有沒有擇定哪一個框架然後把那個草案送出來，這個可能還是要國科會來回答，但是我們討論的時候並不是沒有具體條文在討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：那現在開過幾次會？針對人工智慧基本法正式開會，開過幾次會？有沒有找過數發部？"],["唐部長鳳：以我所知，在我擔任政委的時候這個就已經在行政院科技會報持續討論了，因為我們AI行動方案發展到現在的2.0版，事實上是持續一段很長的時間，在這裡面有一個……"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，你這樣回答其實很空虛、很空泛。"],["唐部長鳳：委員，聽我講完。"],["洪委員孟楷：聽起來就是沒有正式針對人工智慧基本法來開會。"],["唐部長鳳：在我們討論的過程裡面，我們有一個概念就是對於明顯的危害，像合成名人做投資詐騙或者是親密的照片或影音的合成或者是介入選舉等等，這些部分其實透過單點的修法或立法大概都已經有所處理。您剛剛提到的是一個比較全面性的部分……"],["洪委員孟楷：我們剛剛討論的那一些都是所謂犯罪樣態，可能之前運用一般的程式或一般的技術可以做到，但是現在講的是更超前的，其實你是內行人，不講外行話，人工智慧基本法其實是在於生成式AI未來的發展應用，我們要怎麼樣有比較明確的方向。"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：還有包括生物特徵該不該蒐集以及詐騙，本席的提案立法精神有強調，如果用這種新的科技來做詐騙行為的話應該要加強刑責。"],["唐部長鳳：是，我有看到。"],["洪委員孟楷：你同意嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：我想，我剛剛講的那幾個危害裡面很多都有提到，如果以深偽來做的話要加重刑責。"],["洪委員孟楷：這個方向你同不同意？如果我用原本的詐騙，但是運用新的科技，譬如說生成式AI來去做詐騙，包括變造、改變，例如唐鳳部長在這個社會大家都認識，我用唐鳳部長的臉來推薦這個產品、說它好棒棒，那對這個行為要加強刑責，你同意嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：剛剛提到的是說，是不是在基本法裡加強刑責還是在個別法裡面，這個有不同的意見，但是這個方向我當然同意。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，你同意。那還有一個部分是未來人工智慧基本法到底主管機關是誰，因為現在看起來是國科會在擬，可是我們也知道國科會的前身其實是科技部，它等於是被降級，相對來講現在比較像是一個幕僚單位。"],["唐部長鳳：沒有降級。"],["洪委員孟楷：另外一個部分是數發部，大家對於數發部的期待其實也是很高的，所以對於人工智慧基本法也有人說，照理講主管單位應該是由數位發展部來統籌辦理、甚至來領銜、甚至來做後續的主管跟歸納，你同意嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：不過這個要看立法的技術，像打詐專法裡面，網路廣告平台那一段可能就可以由我們來負責，所以不一定說整部法的主管機關……"],["洪委員孟楷：我是在講主管機關。"],["唐部長鳳：對，但是因為你……"],["洪委員孟楷：每一個專法裡面一定開宗明義第一個就講說本法主管機關為誰、是哪一個機關。"],["唐部長鳳：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在有人認為國科會的量能、組織架構或預算規模明顯不足以含括方方面面，尤其是人工智慧，未來到底會發展到多龐大，沒有人知道。"],["唐部長鳳：對，但這牽涉到委員說的這三個部分都放基本法還是有一些在專法，這個我們是不是以書面來回復委員？"],["洪委員孟楷：所以如果今天主管機關要由數位發展部來主導，你同意嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：就是在數位發展部組織法相關的部分，如果到最後基本法是跟這個是契合的……"],["洪委員孟楷：本席會認為，我們真的要做真的，不是打假的、不是玩假的，那就應該是要可長可久，那數位發展部在過去成立的時候，一年半之前大家看到掛牌覺得很興奮，因為對於數位內容發展以及未來的方向我們都很期待，所以本席認為，人工智慧基本法主管機關照理講應該要由數發部來主導，你可以配合其他業務來做其他分類，但是主管機關應該要放在數位發展部。"],["唐部長鳳：很謝謝委員的期許，我們會持續跟國科會討論，這件事情我們也會用書面來跟委員回復。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我希望數位發展部能夠展現更積極的態度，好不好？謝謝。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。洪委員發言完畢。","現在請陳雪生委員、陳雪生委員、陳雪生委員不在。","現在請陳冠廷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":382,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","葛如鈞","林國成","林沛祥","陳素月","何欣純","廖先翔","徐富癸","林俊憲","邱若華","游顥","許智傑","蔡其昌","謝衣鳯","魯明哲","洪孟楷","陳冠廷","張啓楷","黃健豪"],"page_start":331,"meetingDate":["2024-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查行政院函請審議「電子簽章法修正草案」案；二、審查委員葛如鈞等22人擬具「電子簽\n章法修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1131601_00006"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":4.3678437500000005,"end":7.1353437500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":10.814093750000001,"end":46.01534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":46.369718750000004,"end":68.00346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.22284375000001,"end":99.69471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":100.01534375,"end":109.97159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":109.97159375000001,"end":128.23034375,"speaker_score":0.814},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.97909375,"end":116.14784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.23034375,"end":130.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":131.35221875000002,"end":141.08909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":141.39284375,"end":156.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":157.37346875,"end":181.63971875000001,"speaker_score":0.814},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":181.63971875000001,"end":188.08596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":187.63034375,"end":229.32846875,"speaker_score":0.814},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.10971875,"end":198.49784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.25721875000002,"end":202.19346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.90221875,"end":207.44159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.21471875,"end":259.92284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":232.63596875000002,"end":232.87221875,"speaker_score":0.814},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":235.20096875000002,"end":235.35284375,"speaker_score":0.814},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"洪委員孟楷","start":235.92659375000002,"end":237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這個方向我不同意如果說我用原本的詐騙但是我運用新的科技譬如說新生成式AI來去做詐騙包括過說"},{"start":274.827,"end":301.238,"text":"演造改變唐鳳部長看起來這個社會大家都認識我用唐鳳部長來推薦這個產品好棒棒那你加強刑責你同意嗎就是說剛剛提到的是說是不是在基本法裡加強刑責還是在個別法裡面這個有不同的意見但這個方向我當然同意好你同意吼那還有一個部分是未來人工智慧基本法到底主管機關是誰啊"},{"start":301.698,"end":320.313,"text":"因為現在看起來是國科會在擬啊可是我們也知道國科會前身其實是科技部啊他等於是被降級之後他相對來講現在是一個比較幕僚單位那另外一個部分是速發部大家也對於速發部的期待其實很高的所以人工智慧基本法也有人講是說照理講主管單位應該是由數位發"},{"start":322.795,"end":337.549,"text":"數位發展部來統籌、辦理甚至來領銜甚至來做後續的主管跟歸納你同意嗎?不過這個要看立法的技術像打造專法裡面網路廣告平台那一段可能就可以我們來負責所以不一定說整部法的主管機關"},{"start":340.392,"end":367.572,"text":"每一個專法裡面一定開宗明義第一個就講說本法主管機關為誰哪一個機關那現在有人的倡議會認為是說國科會他的明顯他的量能或他的組織架構他的預算規模是不足以含瓜面面方方尤其是人工智慧未來他到底會發展到多龐大沒有人知道但這牽涉到委員的這三個部分都放基本法還是有些在專法等等這個我們是不是書面來會委員"},{"start":368.433,"end":385.989,"text":"所以如果說今天主管機關要由數位發展部這邊來主導你同意嗎?就在數位發展部的組織法相關的部分如果到最後基本法是跟這個是契合的因為本席會認為如果說與其是要我們真的要做真的不是打假的不是玩假的"},{"start":386.229,"end":403.575,"text":"那就應該是要可長可久那數位發展部在過去成立的時候一年半之前大家覺得說挂牌很興奮因為對於數位內容發展以及未來的方向我們都很期待所以本席認為人工智慧基本法照理講應該資助管機關要由數法部來主導"},{"start":404.155,"end":421.544,"text":" ﹏﹏"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:40:43.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:40:44.046000+08:00","text":"主席，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:40:44.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:40:45.526000+08:00","text":"麻煩請唐鳳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-20T11:40:45.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:40:49.867000+08:00","text":"請唐部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:40:49.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:40:50.007000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:40:50.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:40:50.607000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:40:51.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:40:59.869000+08:00","text":"部長，關於電子簽章法，本席也認為這已經不是現在應不應該做，而是早就應該做了，現在來推真的都還有點晚了。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:41:00.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:41:24.370000+08:00","text":"不過除了電子簽章法，其實我們應該要更超前部署，歐盟最近剛通過AI基本法──就是人工智慧基本法，本席最近也一直在倡議，從去年的好萊塢大罷工事件，大家對於生成式AI有很多不同的想法，未知的東西本來就比較需要有一個導引、一個方向。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:41:25.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:41:34.860000+08:00","text":"你剛剛也有被媒體問到，昨天葛委員做一部生成式AI的影片，然後詢問行政院長到底哪一個是真、哪一個是假。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:41:35.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:41:39.184000+08:00","text":"其實本席認為這凸顯一個問題，什麼問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:41:39.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:41:49.913000+08:00","text":"原來要複製一個人的影像、生成影片，讓影片中的人從他嘴巴講出那個話，有那麼容易，而且那麼栩栩如生。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:41:50.794000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:42:18.354000+08:00","text":"我們甚至有看到一些反詐騙的廣告，片中媽媽在跟女兒視訊，然後那個女兒明明就是一樣的臉、講一樣的話，然後就說他現在發生車禍，請媽媽趕快匯款，結果突然間門鈴「叮咚」一響，門一打開，女兒進來了，那個媽媽才知道原來他一直在視訊的女兒是AI、是假的、是詐騙集團。","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:42:18.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:42:30.316000+08:00","text":"好，所以針對人工智慧基本法，本席有問國科會，吳主委說年底應該會推出來，請教部長，國科會有沒有跟數發部來溝通討論？","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:42:30.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:42:32.116000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:42:32.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:42:47.352000+08:00","text":"我有看委員的記者會的說明，包含兼顧產業發展跟權利保護等等，我都非常同意，因為我也是國科會的成員，所以在這個討論裡面，包含公部門的使用的界線等等，我們都有持續跟國科會在討論。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:42:47.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:42:49.215000+08:00","text":"我現在請問一下進度在哪裡？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:42:50.417000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:42:55.662000+08:00","text":"有沒有草案內容已經成型去做討論的法條部分？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:42:55.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:42:59.285000+08:00","text":"還是現在都還是在霧裡看花、都還是在空中樓閣？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:00.886000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:06.771000+08:00","text":"年底就要出來了，而且年底出來到底是出國科會還是可以出行政院？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:07.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:15.779000+08:00","text":"我們都不知道，可是立法院這邊都已經有各委員的版本開始陸續出來了，那人工智慧基本法相對來講應該是重要的吧？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:16.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:23.829000+08:00","text":"我有看委員的版本，看起來也不完全是歐盟的那一個架構，看起來比較接近美國的或日本的架構。是。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:23.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:40.341000+08:00","text":"那我想這個架構的方向，我們之前在討論的時候，就是有歐盟的或是美、日相關的架構進行內部討論，所以委員問說有沒有擇定哪一個框架然後把那個草案送出來，這個可能還是要國科會來回答，但是我們討論的時候並不是沒有具體條文在討論。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:40.341000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:44.004333+08:00","text":"那現在開過幾次會？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:44.004333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:47.667667+08:00","text":"針對人工智慧基本法正式開會，開過幾次會？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:47.667667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:51.331000+08:00","text":"有沒有找過數發部？","quality":0},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:51.331000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:54.994333+08:00","text":"以我所知，在我擔任政委的時候這個就已經在行政院科技會報持續討論了，因為我們AI行動方案發展到現在的2.0版，事實上是持續一段很長的時間，在這裡面有一個……","quality":0.029},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:54.994333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:43:58.657667+08:00","text":"部長，你這樣回答其實很空虛、很空泛。","quality":0},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:43:58.657667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:44:02.321000+08:00","text":"委員，聽我講完。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:44:02.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:44:05.765000+08:00","text":"聽起來就是沒有正式針對人工智慧基本法來開會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:44:05.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:44:24.221000+08:00","text":"在我們討論的過程裡面，我們有一個概念就是對於明顯的危害，像合成名人做投資詐騙或者是親密的照片或影音的合成或者是介入選舉等等，這些部分其實透過單點的修法或立法大概都已經有所處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:44:24.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:44:26.841000+08:00","text":"您剛剛提到的是一個比較全面性的部分……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:44:27.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:44:45.606000+08:00","text":"我們剛剛討論的那一些都是所謂犯罪樣態，可能之前運用一般的程式或一般的技術可以做到，但是現在講的是更超前的，其實你是內行人，不講外行話，人工智慧基本法其實是在於生成式AI未來的發展應用，我們要怎麼樣有比較明確的方向。是。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:44:46.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:44:58.509000+08:00","text":"還有包括生物特徵該不該蒐集以及詐騙，本席的提案立法精神有強調，如果用這種新的科技來做詐騙行為的話應該要加強刑責。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:44:58.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:44:59.410000+08:00","text":"是，我有看到。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:44:59.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:45:00.050000+08:00","text":"你同意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:45:00.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:45:03.274000+08:00","text":"我想，我剛剛講的那幾個危害裡面很多都有提到，如果以深偽來做的話要加重刑責。","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:45:03.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:45:04.836000+08:00","text":"這個方向你同不同意？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:45:05.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:45:25.832000+08:00","text":"如果我用原本的詐騙，但是運用新的科技，譬如說生成式AI來去做詐騙，包括變造、改變，例如唐鳳部長在這個社會大家都認識，我用唐鳳部長的臉來推薦這個產品、說它好棒棒，那對這個行為要加強刑責，你同意嗎？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:45:26.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:45:32.935000+08:00","text":"剛剛提到的是說，是不是在基本法裡加強刑責還是在個別法裡面，這個有不同的意見，但是這個方向我當然同意。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:45:33.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:45:34.235000+08:00","text":"好，你同意。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:45:34.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:45:49.545000+08:00","text":"那還有一個部分是未來人工智慧基本法到底主管機關是誰，因為現在看起來是國科會在擬，可是我們也知道國科會的前身其實是科技部，它等於是被降級，相對來講現在比較像是一個幕僚單位。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:45:49.545000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:45:50.545000+08:00","text":"沒有降級。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:45:50.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:09.022000+08:00","text":"另外一個部分是數發部，大家對於數發部的期待其實也是很高的，所以對於人工智慧基本法也有人說，照理講主管單位應該是由數位發展部來統籌辦理、甚至來領銜、甚至來做後續的主管跟歸納，你同意嗎？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:09.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:16.549000+08:00","text":"不過這個要看立法的技術，像打詐專法裡面，網路廣告平台那一段可能就可以由我們來負責，所以不一定說整部法的主管機關……","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:16.549000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:17.970500+08:00","text":"我是在講主管機關。","quality":0},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:17.970500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:19.392000+08:00","text":"對，但是因為你……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:19.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:25.797000+08:00","text":"每一個專法裡面一定開宗明義第一個就講說本法主管機關為誰、是哪一個機關。對。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:26.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:40.968000+08:00","text":"現在有人認為國科會的量能、組織架構或預算規模明顯不足以含括方方面面，尤其是人工智慧，未來到底會發展到多龐大，沒有人知道。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:41.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:46.572000+08:00","text":"對，但這牽涉到委員說的這三個部分都放基本法還是有一些在專法，這個我們是不是以書面來回復委員？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:47.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:53.899000+08:00","text":"所以如果今天主管機關要由數位發展部來主導，你同意嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:53.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:46:58.503000+08:00","text":"就是在數位發展部組織法相關的部分，如果到最後基本法是跟這個是契合的……","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:46:58.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-20T11:47:22.575000+08:00","text":"本席會認為，我們真的要做真的，不是打假的、不是玩假的，那就應該是要可長可久，那數位發展部在過去成立的時候，一年半之前大家看到掛牌覺得很興奮，因為對於數位內容發展以及未來的方向我們都很期待，所以本席認為，人工智慧基本法主管機關照理講應該要由數發部來主導，你可以配合其他業務來做其他分類，但是主管機關應該要放在數位發展部。","quality":0.728},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:47:23.075000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:47:33.360714+08:00","text":"很謝謝委員的期許，我們會持續跟國科會討論，這件事情我們也會用書面來跟委員回復。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-03-20T11:47:33.660714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:47:40.517857+08:00","text":"好，我希望數位發展部能夠展現更積極的態度，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"唐部長鳳","start":"2024-03-20T11:47:40.817857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:47:41.960714+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-20T11:47:42.260714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:47:43.260714+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-20T11:47:43.560714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:47:45.560714+08:00","text":"洪委員發言完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-20T11:47:45.860714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:47:51.575000+08:00","text":"現在請陳雪生委員、陳雪生委員、陳雪生委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-20T11:47:51.875000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-20T11:47:54.732143+08:00","text":"現在請陳冠廷委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}