{"error":false,"id":["150346"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150346,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150346","日期":"2024-03-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-25T10:55:56+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-25T11:03:25+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b1b3fc4959674989c0ea6c444258f7e78f8ba9b0039caa7a6543a4b68e5d27b965ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張嘉郡","委員發言時間":"10:55:56 - 11:03:25","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於行政院主管：行政院國家發展基金、離島建設基金、花東地區永續發展基金及促進轉型正義基金。(詢答)\n二、處理或審查113年度中央政府總預算有關國家發展委員會及所屬主管預算凍結案等7案。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":672,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時56分）主席，我想請龔主委。"],["主席：請龔主委。"],["張委員嘉郡：龔主委。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：張委員好。"],["張委員嘉郡：電價已經確定從4月開始調漲，平均漲幅11%，原本從經濟部爭取補貼1,500億，現在改成1,000億，近兩年政府補貼台電多少錢，主委知道嗎？國發會主委你不知道嗎？你不知道……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好像有3次了吧！"],["張委員嘉郡：對啊，多少錢你知道嗎？好，你不知道，本席告訴你。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：好，謝謝。"],["張委員嘉郡：由經濟部增資1,500億，特別預算挹注500億，再增資1,001億，再撥補1,000億，這樣加起來你會算嗎？是四千多億，請問主委，一間公司接受政府補貼4,000億元，不是4,000塊，是4,000億元卻還在虧錢，這個原因為何？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為它承擔了整個物價上漲的壓力……"],["張委員嘉郡：物價上漲壓力是什麼？什麼物價上漲了？會讓它賠了4,000億還在虧錢？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為過去兩年漲的電價，在國際間來講，相對於能源價格的上漲要低了很多啦！"],["張委員嘉郡：主委，請你看一看國際報導好嗎？現在不管是國際的天然氣還是油價都已經降到接近戰爭前了，我們還在漲電價，到底是為什麼？是不是因為錯誤的能源政策？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，現在國際的價格的確是這樣，但還是高於我們電價的成本，就是它的成本還高於我們的電價。"],["張委員嘉郡：主委，你這又是另外一個版本喔！王美花不是這樣講的喔！王美花的版本跟你不一樣，你們兩個要不要通一下氣啊？怎麼你講一個版本、他講一個版本？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為我們電價還是相對比較低……"],["張委員嘉郡：王美花部長的版本是說，因為戰爭導致天然氣、燃料費增加……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是啊，這是過去兩年……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以到底是誰決定要用這麼多天然氣的？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：天然氣……"],["張委員嘉郡：你同意嗎？你同意我們國家的能源政策要用這麼多天然氣嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：有一些規劃就是先把……"],["張委員嘉郡：什麼規劃？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：先把燒煤炭的部分降下來……"],["張委員嘉郡：就是要廢核能、不敢燒煤炭、綠能又無法達標，所以就大力的燒天然氣，是不是？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：現在就是燒煤炭的部分要把它減下來，然後再生能源還要一段時間，所以過渡期……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以現在這個能源政策就是我們大大的使用天然氣，結果天然氣呢？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：這是過渡期……"],["張委員嘉郡：過渡期嗎？你的意思是說，未來我們不用再補貼台電的意思嗎？你的意思是說，我們補貼完這1,000億之後就不用再補貼它了，是不是？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：還是要看國際能源價格的變化，如果……"],["張委員嘉郡：現在國際能源價格都已經回穩了，結果到現在台電還是一味的把虧損原因推給國際因素，主委你認為這合理嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：過去兩年本來就是虧損，虧損是存在的，還是要把那個虧損給彌補掉啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你的意思就是，反正民進黨政府錯誤的能源政策就是要全民買單嘛，是不是？你是同意這樣子的吧？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：去年跟前年臺灣的物價只有2.5%，對比其他國家是8%、10%……"],["張委員嘉郡：我再問你，假設電價平均調漲11%之後……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我想臺灣沒有……"],["張委員嘉郡：我問你，國發會預計會影響CPI多少？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：就是0.2到0.3個百分點。"],["張委員嘉郡：今年主計總處本來就預估說CPI是1.85%，目前央行估計CPI是2.16%，而漲電價幾乎可以確定全年的CPI會超過通膨警戒線2%，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，大致上是2%左右。"],["張委員嘉郡：那我想請問國發會會做出哪一種作為？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為現在跨部會都有一些配套措施嘛，所以為什麼穩定物價小組會去宣布我們大宗物資各種稅的減免……"],["張委員嘉郡：我想要問的是國發會有什麼具體的建議、具體的作為？有沒有？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：國發會就是跨部會的一個協調機構啊。"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊，那你要協調什麼啊？你不能空口說白話，只會講空話呀！你到底要做什麼？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，我想穩定物價小組的決策就是我們做的建議……"],["張委員嘉郡：那我再問你一下，針對經濟部做的圖卡說這一次漲電價，連鎖麵包店每天只會增加2塊，這個你認同嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：這個要去問經濟部。"],["張委員嘉郡：我的意思是說，經濟部這種作為就是在騙啊！連鎖烘焙坊一天增加2塊的話，一個月只要增加60塊耶，這種圖卡，國發會主委你可以接受嗎？你可以接受經濟部就是透過這種圖卡在暗示人民說漲電價可能只有一點點影響，結果呢？台電已經跳出來打臉了，台電說正常的烘焙坊、有在用電烘焙的烘焙坊，一個月應該會漲1萬951塊，你知道60塊跟1萬951塊差了多少倍嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，關鍵不是……"],["張委員嘉郡：182倍！關鍵就是在漲電價不會影響人民是騙人的！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員……"],["張委員嘉郡：這是一個詐騙的行為！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，關鍵不在它是不是烘焙坊，關鍵是它有沒有用到700度，如果它用700度以下……"],["張委員嘉郡：我告訴你，國發會主委，你好好的去問一下烘焙坊，有哪一間有在烘焙麵包的烘焙坊用電會少於700度？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：如果它高於700度，就會超過2塊錢……"],["張委員嘉郡：你可以去探聽一下，你身為國發會主委，真的對物價一點瞭解都沒有，會不會有點太誇張！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：那就看看它有沒有用超過700度，有超過700度就會漲超過2塊，這就是答案。"],["張委員嘉郡：不只是2塊！台電都說一個月會漲超過1萬951塊了！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：還是要看那一個月它用了多少的電，因為會有不同的級距嘛！"],["張委員嘉郡：這是一個非常莫名的圖卡啦！我今天特別帶來就是要告訴你，我們不能用詐騙的手段糊弄我們的民眾，讓他們覺得絕對不會萬物齊漲，我覺得這是一個非常可惡的行為！所以我現在想要問主委，你也認同這個圖卡嗎？你也認同這種詐騙的行為嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我想它每一度這樣講是對的，那要不要把下面這些店寫出來，我是尊重，因為每一度會漲多少，這個是算出來的嘛，700度以下漲多少……"],["張委員嘉郡：反正我看你是無法苦民所苦啦！也是不痛不癢啦！"],["主席：謝謝，我們現在休息5分鐘。","休息（11時3分）","繼續開會（11時8分）"],["主席：我們現在繼續開會。","接下來請黃國昌委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-5","speakers":["邱議瑩","邱志偉","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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xt":"國發會主委你不知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:56:34.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:56:34.727000+08:00","text":"你不知道……","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:56:35.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:56:36.709000+08:00","text":"好像有3次了吧！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:56:37.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:56:39.391000+08:00","text":"對啊，多少錢你知道嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:56:39.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:56:40.372000+08:00","text":"好，你不知道，本席告訴你。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:56:40.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:56:40.452000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:56:40.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:56:41.032000+08:00","text":"由經濟部增資1,500億，特別預算挹注500億，再增資1,001億，再撥補1,000億，這樣加起來你會算嗎？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:56:41.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:03.933000+08:00","text":"是四千多億，請問主委，一間公司接受政府補貼4,000億元，不是4,000塊，是4,000億元卻還在虧錢，這個原因為何？","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:12.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:14.091000+08:00","text":"因為它承擔了整個物價上漲的壓力……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:14.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:14.491000+08:00","text":"物價上漲壓力是什麼？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:14.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:14.731000+08:00","text":"什麼物價上漲了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:14.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:15.572000+08:00","text":"會讓它賠了4,000億還在虧錢？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:15.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:17.715000+08:00","text":"因為過去兩年漲的電價，在國際間來講，相對於能源價格的上漲要低了很多啦！","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:31.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:35.734000+08:00","text":"主委，請你看一看國際報導好嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:35.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:41.817000+08:00","text":"現在不管是國際的天然氣還是油價都已經降到接近戰爭前了，我們還在漲電價，到底是為什麼？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:41.817000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:42.457000+08:00","text":"是不是因為錯誤的能源政策？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:42.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:44.338000+08:00","text":"不是，現在國際的價格的確是這樣，但還是高於我們電價的成本，就是它的成本還高於我們的電價。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:44.338000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:48.563500+08:00","text":"主委，你這又是另外一個版本喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:48.563500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:52.789000+08:00","text":"王美花不是這樣講的喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:52.789000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:57:57.014500+08:00","text":"王美花的版本跟你不一樣，你們兩個要不要通一下氣啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:57:57.014500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:01.240000+08:00","text":"怎麼你講一個版本、他講一個版本？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:01.240000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:05.465500+08:00","text":"因為我們電價還是相對比較低……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:05.465500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:09.691000+08:00","text":"王美花部長的版本是說，因為戰爭導致天然氣、燃料費增加……","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:09.691000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:13.916500+08:00","text":"是啊，這是過去兩年……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:13.916500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:18.142000+08:00","text":"所以到底是誰決定要用這麼多天然氣的？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:18.142000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:22.367500+08:00","text":"天然氣……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:22.367500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:26.593000+08:00","text":"你同意嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:26.593000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:30.818500+08:00","text":"你同意我們國家的能源政策要用這麼多天然氣嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:30.818500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:35.044000+08:00","text":"有一些規劃就是先把……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:35.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:39.269500+08:00","text":"什麼規劃？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:39.269500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:43.495000+08:00","text":"先把燒煤炭的部分降下來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:43.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:47.720500+08:00","text":"就是要廢核能、不敢燒煤炭、綠能又無法達標，所以就大力的燒天然氣，是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:47.720500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:51.946000+08:00","text":"現在就是燒煤炭的部分要把它減下來，然後再生能源還要一段時間，所以過渡期……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:51.946000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:58:56.171500+08:00","text":"所以現在這個能源政策就是我們大大的使用天然氣，結果天然氣呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:58:56.171500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:00.397000+08:00","text":"這是過渡期……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:00.397000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:04.622500+08:00","text":"過渡期嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:04.622500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:08.848000+08:00","text":"你的意思是說，未來我們不用再補貼台電的意思嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:08.848000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:13.073500+08:00","text":"你的意思是說，我們補貼完這1,000億之後就不用再補貼它了，是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:13.073500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:17.299000+08:00","text":"還是要看國際能源價格的變化，如果……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:17.299000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:21.524500+08:00","text":"現在國際能源價格都已經回穩了，結果到現在台電還是一味的把虧損原因推給國際因素，主委你認為這合理嗎？","quality":0.022},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:21.524500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:25.750000+08:00","text":"過去兩年本來就是虧損，虧損是存在的，還是要把那個虧損給彌補掉啊！","quality":0.034},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:25.750000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:29.975500+08:00","text":"所以你的意思就是，反正民進黨政府錯誤的能源政策就是要全民買單嘛，是不是？","quality":0.061},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:29.975500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:34.201000+08:00","text":"你是同意這樣子的吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:34.201000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:38.426500+08:00","text":"去年跟前年臺灣的物價只有2.5%，對比其他國家是8%、10%……","quality":0.13},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:38.426500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:42.652000+08:00","text":"我再問你，假設電價平均調漲11%之後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:42.652000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:46.877500+08:00","text":"我想臺灣沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:46.877500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:51.103000+08:00","text":"我問你，國發會預計會影響CPI多少？","quality":0.188},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:51.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T10:59:52.364000+08:00","text":"就是0.2到0.3個百分點。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T10:59:53.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:11.578000+08:00","text":"今年主計總處本來就預估說CPI是1.85%，目前央行估計CPI是2.16%，而漲電價幾乎可以確定全年的CPI會超過通膨警戒線2%，對不對？","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:11.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:12.999000+08:00","text":"對，大致上是2%左右。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:13.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:14.461000+08:00","text":"那我想請問國發會會做出哪一種作為？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:14.461000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:19.199000+08:00","text":"因為現在跨部會都有一些配套措施嘛，所以為什麼穩定物價小組會去宣布我們大宗物資各種稅的減免……","quality":0.023},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:19.199000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:23.937000+08:00","text":"我想要問的是國發會有什麼具體的建議、具體的作為？","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:23.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:28.675000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":0},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:28.675000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:33.413000+08:00","text":"國發會就是跨部會的一個協調機構啊。","quality":0.188},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:33.413000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:38.151000+08:00","text":"是啊，那你要協調什麼啊？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:38.151000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:42.889000+08:00","text":"你不能空口說白話，只會講空話呀！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:42.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:43.610000+08:00","text":"你到底要做什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:43.610000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:44.610000+08:00","text":"不是，我想穩定物價小組的決策就是我們做的建議……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:43.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:45.010000+08:00","text":"那我再問你一下，針對經濟部做的圖卡說這一次漲電價，連鎖麵包店每天只會增加2塊，這個你認同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:45.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:45.070000+08:00","text":"這個要去問經濟部。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:00:45.090000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:00:45.351000+08:00","text":"我的意思是說，經濟部這種作為就是在騙啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:04.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:01:07.172000+08:00","text":"連鎖烘焙坊一天增加2塊的話，一個月只要增加60塊耶，這種圖卡，國發會主委你可以接受嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:07.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:01:08.312000+08:00","text":"你可以接受經濟部就是透過這種圖卡在暗示人民說漲電價可能只有一點點影響，結果呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:08.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:01:40.927000+08:00","text":"台電已經跳出來打臉了，台電說正常的烘焙坊、有在用電烘焙的烘焙坊，一個月應該會漲1萬951塊，你知道60塊跟1萬951塊差了多少倍嗎？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:40.927000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:01:42.008000+08:00","text":"不是，關鍵不是……182倍！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:42.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:01:42.469000+08:00","text":"關鍵就是在漲電價不會影響人民是騙人的！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:42.469000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:01:43.469000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:42.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:01:42.649000+08:00","text":"這是一個詐騙的行為！","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:42.649000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:01:57.572000+08:00","text":"報告委員，關鍵不在它是不是烘焙坊，關鍵是它有沒有用到700度，如果它用700度以下……","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:01:57.572000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:03.978000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，國發會主委，你好好的去問一下烘焙坊，有哪一間有在烘焙麵包的烘焙坊用電會少於700度？","quality":0.025},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:03.978000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:10.384000+08:00","text":"如果它高於700度，就會超過2塊錢……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:10.384000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:16.790000+08:00","text":"你可以去探聽一下，你身為國發會主委，真的對物價一點瞭解都沒有，會不會有點太誇張！","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:16.790000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:23.196000+08:00","text":"那就看看它有沒有用超過700度，有超過700度就會漲超過2塊，這就是答案。","quality":0.037},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:23.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:25.660000+08:00","text":"不只是2塊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:26.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:29.805000+08:00","text":"台電都說一個月會漲超過1萬951塊了！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:30.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:34.011000+08:00","text":"還是要看那一個月它用了多少的電，因為會有不同的級距嘛！","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:36.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:39.378000+08:00","text":"這是一個非常莫名的圖卡啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:39.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:42.260000+08:00","text":"我今天特別帶來就是要告訴你，我們不能用詐騙的手段糊弄我們的民眾，讓他們覺得絕對不會萬物齊漲，我覺得這是一個非常可惡的行為！","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:42.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:42.741000+08:00","text":"所以我現在想要問主委，你也認同這個圖卡嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:42.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:42.961000+08:00","text":"你也認同這種詐騙的行為嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔主任委員明鑫","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:43.461000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:02:58.318143+08:00","text":"我想它每一度這樣講是對的，那要不要把下面這些店寫出來，我是尊重，因為每一度會漲多少，這個是算出來的嘛，700度以下漲多少……","quality":0.038},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:02:58.618143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:03:02.332429+08:00","text":"反正我看你是無法苦民所苦啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2024-03-25T11:03:02.632429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:03:04.632429+08:00","text":"也是不痛不癢啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-25T11:03:04.932429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:03:07.789571+08:00","text":"謝謝，我們現在休息5分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-25T11:03:08.089571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:03:09.232429+08:00","text":"休息（11時3分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-25T11:03:09.532429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:03:11.246714+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時8分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-25T11:03:11.546714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:03:13.832429+08:00","text":"我們現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-25T11:03:14.132429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-25T11:03:17.275286+08:00","text":"接下來請黃國昌委員發言。","quality":0.273}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}