{"error":false,"id":["150427"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150427,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150427","日期":"2024-03-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-26T15:02:21+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-26T15:18:00+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:39","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f45bf982c29023ee7ccdd9b1a33c1c8d8ac1d636ef3e2fe8f8ba9b0039caa7a6354b032749305e4a5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇清泉","委員發言時間":"15:02:21 - 15:18:00","會議時間":"2024-03-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":124,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（15時2分）謝謝院長。我們請陳院長還有薛部長。"],["主席：再請陳院長及衛福部備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：蘇委員午安。"],["蘇委員清泉：午安。辛苦了！你們兩個人站了一整天了。"],["陳院長建仁：不會，為大家服務。"],["蘇委員清泉：我要跟院長薛部長請教，因為你當過副總統、當過衛生署署長，所以醫療方面你非常內行，薛部長更不用講。很感謝不分朝野這幾天都看到他們非常關心醫界，他們都很擔心醫界死掉。","院長，你有看到韓國發生的事件嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：有，因為他們要增加醫學生，但是醫學生抗議。"],["蘇委員清泉：我有研究，韓國這次的問題滿嚴重的，而且差不多80%跟臺灣雷同，但我覺得他們的總統很另類，他不去跟北韓對幹，只想跟自己的醫護人員對幹。院長，你會不會也這樣跟我們的醫護人員對幹？"],["陳院長建仁：我想不管是我也好，還是賴副總統也好，我們都是從醫界及衛生界出身的，我們知道他們對國家很有貢獻，我們謝謝所有醫護人員的貢獻，也希望能夠保障他們的權益，讓他們能夠為民眾提供更好的服務。"],["蘇委員清泉：院長，住一晚的觀光飯店要四千多元，住病房的話，包括護理費等等一晚一千多元；再來，南部算命的人很多，北部也很多，算一次命要800元到4,000元，看一次病要兩百多元，我看一次都兩百多元，有的是三百多元，你的看法如何？"],["陳院長建仁：我的看法是這樣，因為觀光的話就是願者付費嘛，如果是醫療的話，我們有健保，健保也要維持財務支出平衡，我們就付給相關住院費用或診療費用，這些本來就是在健保的總額預算下，我們讓健保能夠永續。"],["蘇委員清泉：好。接著你看，這個是健保署公布出來的data，各位看到我們臺大醫院，早上也有很多委員談了，臺大醫院院長說它的結餘是1%，然後主要的收入是來自於美食街、停車場、捐贈，像林口長庚就是靠它的股票股利，它的本業還虧錢。所以這個是不應該，你這樣一直要求醫界要有韌性，請問沒錢要怎麼有韌性？這根本就醫不下去了。","我想陳院長也很內行，像成本控制等等，但是我們跟韓國一樣，醫學生不要選內外婦兒，會被告，韓國的醫療糾紛比我們還要強烈，大家都要去走美容、皮膚等等。我們這裡跟韓國幾乎一模一樣，他們的醫師數是八萬多，我們的醫師數是五萬多，它現在醫學院每一年招收差不多三千多位，我們差不多招一千五，它現在要加到一年要收五千多個，所以整個都崩盤了，醫師分配不均、偏鄉不足等等，臺灣再加上我們的健保是用總額預算，每一年要結清，所以院長，醫界的要求不多啦！1點1元，至少要0.95啦！不然的話，醫不下去了啦！","前幾天護理全聯會來找我，他說他們希望新進的護理師有70萬，然後資深的希望每個月的薪資能9萬到10萬，其他醫事相關放射、檢驗等等，那都要漲啊！醫生已經15年薪水沒調整，15年了喔！有一天我們薛部長跟我講，放射科很危險喔！現在那些晶片業者要放射師去做他們的screen，這樣下去會拉很多人去，他們的開價都是8萬、9萬、10萬，會跑光耶！院長，你有什麼想法嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：有，醫事人員非醫師的薪資部分，你說的這些包括護理師還有其他的部分，衛福部實際上有一個計畫要進行，我請部長簡單講一下。"],["薛部長瑞元：首先是護理師的部分，我們會推出一個護理繁重加給的計畫，這個計畫目前正在規劃，看今年有沒有機會去執行。至於其他醫事人員的部分，這個當然還要再做一些估算。"],["蘇委員清泉：早上廖委員提了發展特別條例，被你們打槍，我有看到，那個是比較難，但是我要跟你報告，我們的給付偏低，重症沒人要走，還有核刪還要放大，沒人這樣啦！薪水可以打折嗎？你在這邊宣示薪水可以打折，我馬上出去放鞭炮，院長，可以嗎？不行嘛！對不對？所以我希望我們來搞個不要用總額預算，總額改成目標制，然後我們來修健保法第六十二條之三，我已經提出去連署了，補到0.95，補到0.95，真的是不足。就像德國這樣，它是把明年的挪到今年來補，也是可以啊！不能讓醫療崩掉啊！院長。"],["陳院長建仁：我想委員也很清楚啦！點數、點值、總額預算是多少，這不是只有從政府這邊來講而已……"],["蘇委員清泉：政府的支持是對的，你要占36%……"],["陳院長建仁：這是醫界還有病人的團體等等，大家要一起來討論，所以很多事情的討論不是只有站在醫事人員，包括病人的團體等等，還有……"],["蘇委員清泉：現在是一個good timing……"],["陳院長建仁：通通要一起來討論……"],["蘇委員清泉：非常好的關鍵時刻。"],["陳院長建仁：大家討論後會比較好。"],["蘇委員清泉：我們準總統是腎臟科醫生，部長是婦產科，然後你是公衛，這個時間點是最好的，大家又那麼關心，然後醫療真的又很差，這個時候好好地把總額6%往上拉。再來，你說要把長照納進來，就把它納進來啊，長照保險法沒有辦法單獨立法，我們就把它納到健保法裡面，把這個百分比拉高，把政府投資的GDP拉高，一勞永逸，要不要？"],["陳院長建仁：這是委員的意見，還是所有醫界的意見？"],["蘇委員清泉：差不多大家都……"],["陳院長建仁：醫界的意見是不是所有人民的看法，還有所有醫院經營者的看法？這一定要大家一起來討論，當然委員有創意，提出一個修法的意見是很好。"],["蘇委員清泉：那個我跟部長說……"],["陳院長建仁：但是大家要來討論，我覺得這個要先討論清楚。"],["蘇委員清泉：再來，你們不要健保未倒，醫院就先倒了。今天很多委員都在替醫療院所發聲，你凍漲的有農、漁，有社福，你怎麼不把醫療放進去呢？我們已經漲32%了，今年又再漲11%、15%，不就要死了！對鄉下來說真的很嚴重耶！院長，你們只是一直在研究、一直在研究。"],["陳院長建仁：委員，你一樣有看清楚，你這裡一樣有資料嘛，有提到醫學中心的部分是0.5%到1%；區域、地區醫院是2到3%；偏遠的小醫院是4%，現在是說它占4%，對於整體的營運成本會有多少影響。當然我也知道醫療機構是相當地辛苦，我也感謝他們照顧民眾的健康，但是這個補助的問題就要看政府的能力。"],["蘇委員清泉：再來，前幾天衛福部把掛號費上限取消，好像很好一樣，部長，你很夭壽耶！怎麼可能掛號費沒有上限？結果引起百姓的不滿，我們在基層聽到，大家都罵得要死，結果你反而把醫界推到百姓的對立面，這很糟糕耶！沒有人這麼做的啦！部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員，你的意思是說要限制它，不能提高嗎？"],["蘇委員清泉：你可以報備，你可以訂百分之幾，你不可以說都不管、隨便它。"],["薛部長瑞元：以前就是報備，以前是只有報備而已，結果每一個衛生局都把它變成審查，但是他們於法無據啊，因為行政費用……"],["陳院長建仁：我們現在是讓醫療機構自己去決定。"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["陳院長建仁：我向委員報告，掛號費目前的情況，這樣看起來，實際上……"],["蘇委員清泉：你不夠錢，所以就取消掛號費限制，但是這是很夭壽的措施。"],["薛部長瑞元：現在有漲的才57間。"],["陳院長建仁：全臺灣57間。"],["蘇委員清泉：誰敢漲價？我們屏東要怎麼漲？那都是鄉下，你敢漲，他就跟你拚了。"],["薛部長瑞元：你沒有限制，它也不會漲啊！"],["蘇委員清泉：回到初衷啦！健保法要弄好啦，你們現在是最好的時間，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：健保法要做好，要大家一起來努力。"],["薛部長瑞元：我再問一下，委員的意思是說不應該這樣做，所以掛號費一樣要限制，是不是這樣？"],["蘇委員清泉：一樣由縣市政府來規範，就是不一樣啦。"],["薛部長瑞元：本來應該是備查變成審查喔！"],["蘇委員清泉：對，審查沒關係啊！"],["陳院長建仁：不行啦！不能這樣。"],["薛部長瑞元：於法無據啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，感謝。我們請環境部。"],["陳院長建仁：這是醫院管理……"],["蘇委員清泉：請環境部，有更嚴重的事情要跟你報告。"],["陳院長建仁：那是醫療機構的行政管理費，不應該跟健保一起講。環境部……"],["蘇委員清泉：我剩4分鐘而已，要講快一點。院長，你是高雄人喔！"],["陳院長建仁：對，我是高雄人。"],["蘇委員清泉：我是屏東人，你看我們現在的家園變成這樣，這是鹽埔啦，這是麟洛啦，你看看，都鋪水泥啦！做這種光電將來怎麼有辦法復耕啦！你看這個長青苔，這樣東一塊、西一塊，現在有在限制了，那個寸草不生啦，你看這整個都是，這個更誇張！環境部薛部長，你的看法如何？"],["薛部長富盛：跟蘇委員報告，我們現在的環評法裡面針對光電這一塊，事實上只有重要濕地的部分，但是我們已經聽到聲音，所以現在在進行整個修法的工作。"],["蘇委員清泉：院長，旁邊蓋了太陽能板，蚊蟲都躲在那裡，都跑到果園，農藥越噴越重，世上有這種做法？"],["薛部長富盛：跟蘇委員報告，其實光電板相較於其他的再生能源，它對環境的衝擊是比較小，所以當初的環評認定才會只有重要濕地要經過環評，其他的就配合整個……"],["蘇委員清泉：院長，石化的percent一直一直增加，你這個又增加沒多少，這產的電量是一點點，所以一開始就錯了，就是非核家園亂搞嘛！對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：現在光電的占比是很高，不是不高喔！"],["薛部長富盛：對。"],["陳院長建仁：現在我跟委員說，所有用來做光電發展的這個……"],["蘇委員清泉：我們來講漁電共生，這是人家在抗爭的啦！你看這片，這片就是要去墾丁、車城，你看，行政院說這是美麗的天際線啦！看了都快吐血了！漁電共生連一隻魚都沒有。"],["薛部長富盛：跟委員報告，像漁電共生那個，它還是限制40%，不能超過它的面積的40%……"],["蘇委員清泉：這個是空照圖，你看看。"],["薛部長富盛：當然我們認為有必要跟民眾加強溝通，這個是有必要的。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，再來，你看這裡，這裡是老埤農場，種茶葉的，六、七百公頃要拿去做光電啦！它茶葉生產的品質很好耶！六、七百公頃耶！","而且我聽到很多施工的單位來跟我陳情，陳院長，你可能沒聽過，你的光電補助那些能源大廠的大老闆，躲在後面賺得飽飽飽；這些廠商，水電、營造、土木的沒錢拿，做好也沒錢，已經做好在發電、在賺錢了，也都還拿不到錢，多少的這些承包商還要面對百姓的陳抗跟糾紛，然後拿不到錢、倒閉，這是另類喔！你去補那些大老闆，這些大老闆沒有錢給這些施工的人啊！這些施工的工人是要吃飯、要養妻小耶！結果他就在那邊亂搞，院長，這點你要去清查，好不好？"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們來清查。"],["蘇委員清泉：下去清查，這個是非常非常惡劣、非常非常糟糕，我以為是少數，結果是大多數，所以這些光電業者真的沒血沒淚！這些大老闆，我在這裡也強烈地給他們譴責，希望部長跟院長去查看看。"],["陳院長建仁：我們來清查。"],["蘇委員清泉：謝謝。"],["陳院長建仁：有不法的話，我們來……"],["主席：謝謝蘇清泉委員的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來登記第13號李坤城委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員李坤城書面質詢：","議題一：解決出養制度漏洞、增加兒少照護預算","兒童凱凱遭虐致死案件，暴露台灣出養制度缺失，尤其是出養等待期的安置資源嚴重不足。以個案為例，兒童出生於脆弱家庭，透過新北市、台北市社會局轉介到兒童福利聯盟，兒福聯盟雖然找了合格的保母照顧小孩，還是出了問題。","根據衛福部盤點統計，目前全台3歲以下出養幼兒有177人，正由八個民間團體媒合出養家庭中，地方社會局不應在評估決定出養後就放手不管。在制度改善的空窗期，我們要求衛福部應積極和各縣市社福單位確認掌控這177位3歲以下孩童的安置照顧狀況，增加訪視頻率，確保兒虐或不當對待憾事再度發生。","政策建議：","1，脆弱家庭的孩子在出養階段的托育或安置費用，不應由媒合機構負擔，政府應該負責。","2，出養階段的托育保姆，應該受到更多的監督管理。","3，出養必要性評估，應修法改為地方政府辦理，避免媒合機構在出養評估時從寬認定；出養費用也需要有一致性的標準。","4，衛福部應該全面檢討安置資源，增加安置經費，並規劃相應的財源挹注，現行的兒少預算不到GDP的百分之三，資源不足造成兒少業務人力及相關制度難以完善，政府應逐年提高兒少預算，達到OECD國家的平均占GDP的6%。","5，照護安置經費應有適當調整機制，每年參照CPI年增率公告調整，讓更多照顧兒童的安置系統，不論是居家托育保母或是寄養家庭，願意加入孩童安置的行列。","議題二：家庭幫傭申請條件放寬","台灣於2004年開放家庭幫傭，當年的規定，雇主申請初次招募時的條件：","一、有年齡三歲以下之三胞胎以上之多胞子女。","二、累計點數滿十六點者。","2020年才修正為現行規定，雇主申請招募條件：","一、有三名以上之年齡六歲以下子女。","二、有四名以上之年齡十二歲以下子女，且其中二名為年齡六歲以下。","三、累計點數滿十六點者。","日前接獲一個陳情案例，該陳情人家中有長子6歲4個月大，雙胞胎弟弟妹妹目前6個月大，現任的家庭幫傭已僱用3個多月，因有餵錯藥及泡奶水量錯誤等重大錯誤，欲替換人選重新招聘，結果因長子已逾6歲，失去申請資格。","上述之標準過於嚴苛，除非是一次3胞胎，若是一次一胎，跨了6年，即使生了3胎，依舊達不到申請資格。少子女化乃之嚴重國安危機，當前台灣所面臨的情勢嚴峻，若是在申請家庭幫傭之資格過於嚴苛，無益幫助減緩少子女化之情形。依據內政部統計，以111年為例，生育三胎以上之戶數僅佔總數12%，符合條件比例不高，若加上經濟條件，能夠申請者就更少。","根據勞動部統計，截至113年1月底，我國家庭幫傭申請外籍移工數量為1927人，佔我國外籍移工整體比例，僅佔0.25%。因此，放寬申請條件，增加外勞聘用人數，影響幅度非常的小。","政府要鼓勵生育，家庭幫傭之申請資格就應該大幅放寬條件，對於願意生育孩子的夫婦，申請幫傭不要讓他們面臨上述如此困境。","政策建議：","一、家庭幫傭申請條件放寬為有二名以上之年齡六歲以下子女。","二、六歲以上至十二歲以下兒童，納入計點範圍。","三、重新招聘時，家庭幫傭應與家庭看護工條件一致。"],["主席：再接下來我們請登記第14號蘇委員巧慧質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":219,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳宗憲","廖偉翔","陳昭姿","林憶君","賴士葆","劉建國","吳春城","王世堅","李彥秀","謝龍介","黃捷","游顥","蘇清泉","李坤城","蘇巧慧","王正旭","邱議瑩","洪申翰","鄭正鈐","涂權吉","徐巧芯"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-03-26"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00004","1131401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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ext":"這位衛生署署長,所以醫療你非常的內行,那薛副長更不用講。那挺感謝這不管朝野這幾天都看到他們非常關心醫界齁,你跟他講醫界競爭啦。好,好,院長,你看到這韓國,這是韓國齁?有,這因為他們對這個醫學生有一些要檢查嘛齁,但是醫學生有控醫。"},{"start":58.105,"end":72.462,"text":"我研究一下,韓國這次的問題蠻嚴重,而且他有80%跟台灣雷同,但是他們的總統我覺得很另類,他不去跟北韓對戰,只能跟自己的醫護人員對戰。"},{"start":74.761,"end":74.781,"text":"院長"},{"start":102.245,"end":111.81,"text":"一間廣東飯店、一間市場幾戶、一間便衣、包括副流的都加起來、一間清湯庫。你選名,那些人沒多少,大伯也有很多人。選一間名,二百到四千。換一個便,兩百幾戶,我看都兩百幾戶,有的三百幾戶。"},{"start":130.888,"end":131.13,"text":"你會看嗎?"},{"start":133.41,"end":159.667,"text":"我的看法是這樣,因為如果說觀光那就是醫院者去付費嘛,如果說醫療當然我們有健保,健保也要看到健保的財務的支出要平衡,那我們也就付給相關的住院的費用或者診療的費用啦。那這些本來就是在我們的健保的總額預算下,我們讓健保能夠永續。"},{"start":162.759,"end":190.075,"text":"那接著你看這個是健保署公布出來的data各位看到我們臺大醫院早上很多委員談了臺大醫院院長說一月絕餘1%然後他主要的收入是來自於美食街停車場捐贈像林口長庚他就是靠他的股票股利他的本業還虧錢"},{"start":192.113,"end":217.763,"text":"所以這個是不應該,你這樣一直要要求醫界要有韌性,請問某幾名要有韌性,這就緊張他不會了。下一張。我想陳院長你也很內行,那成本控制啦等等等等,但是我們跟韓國一樣,醫學生不要選內外婦兒。"},{"start":221.097,"end":235.801,"text":"韓國的醫療就比我們還強烈。大家都要去找美容、皮膚等等。我們這裡跟韓國幾乎一模一樣。他們的醫師數8萬多,我們的醫師數5萬多。現在醫學每年遭受差不多3000多位,我們說1500。現在要加到一年要收5000多個,所以整個都變胖。"},{"start":247.106,"end":267.895,"text":"議事分配不精、偏鄉不足等等。我們台灣在家鄉的健保是用總額預算,每年要結清。議長,他自己的要求不足,一點一口,最少要0.95,不然他不會落下。"},{"start":274.861,"end":299.02,"text":"前幾天那個副理前任會來找我他說他們希望新進的副律師70萬70萬然後資深的希望每個月的薪資能9萬到10萬那其他醫事相關放射檢驗等等那都要去啊醫生已經15年沒去沒薪水沒條件15年"},{"start":302.256,"end":305.919,"text":"這部分醫事人員的薪資,揮醫師的部分,包括護理師還有其他的部分,"},{"start":330.509,"end":330.689,"text":"﹚蘇清泉"},{"start":337.496,"end":364.77,"text":"首先是護理師的部分的話,那我們會推出一個護理繁重加急的這個計畫。那這個計畫目前正在規劃,那看今年有沒有機會去執行。然後其他醫事人員的部分,那這個當然還要再做一些估算。晚上我們那個廖委員他提了一個發展特別條例,我給你拍一張我看。"},{"start":367.332,"end":395.192,"text":"那個是比較難但是呢我要跟你報告我們這幾戶偏低重鎮沒人要走還河山還要放大沒人這樣啦薪水可以打折嗎?你在這邊宣示薪水可以打折嗎?馬上出去放鞭炮行嘛 對不對所以我希望我們要來搞個總額不要用總額預算總額改成目標制"},{"start":396.22,"end":413.136,"text":"然後我們來修建保法,又12條之三,那我已經提出一連署了,不到0.95,也不到0.95,然後真的不足,就像德國這樣,他是把明年的摸到今年來補,不可以啊,不能讓醫療崩潰啊,你知道嗎?"},{"start":416.38,"end":420.324,"text":"我相信委員你很清楚,這個點數、點值、總額預算是多少,這不只是為政府這邊來說而已,這是議界還有消費者,"},{"start":432.897,"end":435.619,"text":"我們這個總統是醫生腎臟科護腸科的部長然後你是公衛這個時候是最好然後大家要那麼關心然後醫療真的要很差"},{"start":462.457,"end":475.975,"text":"這個時候好好地把總額6%往上拉,再來你說把長照要納進來,就把它納進來啊。長照保險法沒有辦法單獨立法,我們就把它納到健保法裡面,"},{"start":478.496,"end":478.536,"text":"蘇清泉議員"},{"start":508.22,"end":525.588,"text":"希望變報告到明天就先到,今天很多,我們很多委員都在退醫療院所發生,你動載的有榮譽、有社福,你不太要把醫療放進去,我已經去32%了,今年又去11%、15%,我都站起來了,那個政客所在的真的很嚴重。"},{"start":532.237,"end":537.582,"text":"委員長,你有沒有看過醫學中心的保溫是0.5%至1%,區域、地區醫院是2%至3%,偏遠的小醫院是4%,你也說這4%對整個全體營運成本會有多少的影響。當然我也知道這個醫療機構是最大的辛苦,我也感謝他們照顧著民眾的健康,但是"},{"start":560.182,"end":585.5,"text":"這個補助的問題就要看過政府的電力啦。再來,前幾天我們衛福部把這個國安會上線給取消。吼,非常不好的吼。部長,你很要事耶。比較有可能的,因為國安會沒有上線,結果引起百姓,我們在基層聽到,大家都買到要死。啊昨天的你把醫界推到百姓的對立面,這很糟糕耶,沒有人這樣做的啦。部長。"},{"start":587.721,"end":595.286,"text":"委員你的意思是說不可以限制,不可以管你以前就是報備,以前只是報備而已,結果每一個衛生局都幫你做審查,但是我們違法無據啊"},{"start":608.715,"end":611.177,"text":"因為現在醫療機構他們自己去判斷了,我感覺我向委員報告,這樣我後悔的目前的情形,這樣看起來,事實上...現在也有企業,這裡57間,工廠要怎麼企?"},{"start":632.154,"end":638.296,"text":"所以我再問一下,委員的意思是說不應該這樣做,所以那個國會同樣要行政是不是這樣?同樣由縣市政府來規範。應該被查變成審查喔?"},{"start":659.309,"end":666.697,"text":"對阿,審查阿,比康嘛。那是醫院管理費。那是醫院管理費。環境部,環境部。這更加嚴重的事。那是醫療機構的行政管理費,不應該蓋健保座。環境部。四分鐘而已,說得快。"},{"start":682.901,"end":709.106,"text":"院長,你高雄人,你看我們現在的工廠這樣,這是鹽煲啦,下一張,這是零鹿啦,你看看,都空岸門頭啦,這個這種光電怎麼有辦法將來要復耕啦,在下面,你知道這個長青苔,這樣東一塊西一塊,現在有在限制了,那個寸草不生啦,你看這整個都"},{"start":712.304,"end":735.721,"text":"吼,這個更誇張吼。好,再下一張。那個環境部學部長,你的看法如何?給蘇委員報告,事實上我們現在的環評法裡面,針對光電這一塊事實上只有重要失地,但是我們已經聽到聲音,所以現在在進行整個修法的"},{"start":736.391,"end":739.234,"text":"議員長,旁邊去看太陽能板的房間都閉在那,我找出來過幾天,榮耀越出越大,世間有這種做法嗎?"},{"start":748.556,"end":764.343,"text":"其實跟蘇委員報告,光電板相較於其他的再生能源,它對環境的衝擊是比較小。所以當初的環評認定才會只有重要失地要經過環評,其他的就配合...實話...實話..."},{"start":769.38,"end":770,"text":"這是人在抗爭的"},{"start":797.779,"end":802.185,"text":"這皮你看到沒有,這皮就是要去昆汀車廂,你看,行政院說這是美麗的天際線,這美麗的天際線,看有沒有透過啊。"},{"start":812.297,"end":815.239,"text":"這裡啦,這裡是老闢農場,建第一的,六七百公頃的火爐做公安店。"},{"start":842.779,"end":870.987,"text":"你茶葉生產的品質很好,六、七百公頃。下一張。而且我聽到很多施工的單位來跟我澄清。沈院長你可能沒聽過。你的光電補佐的那些能源大廠,那些大老闆,立在後面,賺到八八百,這些廠商,水電的啦、營造的啦、土木的。"},{"start":871.96,"end":900.569,"text":"沒錢可以做好也沒錢做好在發展啊,已經在賺錢了,也又放沒錢外面這些承包商還要面對百姓的成抗跟糾紛,然後拿不到錢,然後倒閉。這是另類喔,你去補那些大老闆,這些大老闆沒有錢給這些施工,這施工的人,工人是要吃飯的,吃不走,他就把自己亂扶。"},{"start":902.665,"end":904.386,"text":"希望部長跟院長來查看看"},{"start":930.466,"end":939.299,"text":"謝謝蘇清泉委員的質詢。謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第13號李坤成委員之質詢以"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:23.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:02:24.018000+08:00","text":"謝謝院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:24.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:02:24.778000+08:00","text":"我們請陳院長還有薛部長。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:24.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:02:25.979000+08:00","text":"再請陳院長及衛福部備詢。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:26.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:02:26.759000+08:00","text":"蘇委員午安。午安。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:26.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:02:27.099000+08:00","text":"辛苦了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:27.099000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:02:28.099000+08:00","text":"你們兩個人站了一整天了。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:27.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:02:27.739000+08:00","text":"不會，為大家服務。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:27.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:02:57.876000+08:00","text":"我要跟院長薛部長請教，因為你當過副總統、當過衛生署署長，所以醫療方面你非常內行，薛部長更不用講。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:02:58.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:03:03.038000+08:00","text":"很感謝不分朝野這幾天都看到他們非常關心醫界，他們都很擔心醫界死掉。","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:03:03.958000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:03:04.338000+08:00","text":"院長，你有看到韓國發生的事件嗎？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:03:04.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:03:07.959000+08:00","text":"有，因為他們要增加醫學生，但是醫學生抗議。","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:03:08.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:03:33.462000+08:00","text":"我有研究，韓國這次的問題滿嚴重的，而且差不多80%跟臺灣雷同，但我覺得他們的總統很另類，他不去跟北韓對幹，只想跟自己的醫護人員對幹。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:03:33.462000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:03:53.778000+08:00","text":"院長，你會不會也這樣跟我們的醫護人員對幹？","quality":0.105},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:03:53.778000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:04:14.094000+08:00","text":"我想不管是我也好，還是賴副總統也好，我們都是從醫界及衛生界出身的，我們知道他們對國家很有貢獻，我們謝謝所有醫護人員的貢獻，也希望能夠保障他們的權益，讓他們能夠為民眾提供更好的服務。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:04:14.094000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:04:34.410000+08:00","text":"院長，住一晚的觀光飯店要四千多元，住病房的話，包括護理費等等一晚一千多元；再來，南部算命的人很多，北部也很多，算一次命要800元到4,000元，看一次病要兩百多元，我看一次都兩百多元，有的是三百多元，你的看法如何？","quality":0.284},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:04:34.410000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:05:00.667000+08:00","text":"我的看法是這樣，因為觀光的話就是願者付費嘛，如果是醫療的話，我們有健保，健保也要維持財務支出平衡，我們就付給相關住院費用或診療費用，這些本來就是在健保的總額預算下，我們讓健保能夠永續。好。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:05:03.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:05:31.075000+08:00","text":"接著你看，這個是健保署公布出來的data，各位看到我們臺大醫院，早上也有很多委員談了，臺大醫院院長說它的結餘是1%，然後主要的收入是來自於美食街、停車場、捐贈，像林口長庚就是靠它的股票股利，它的本業還虧錢。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:05:33.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:05:40.756000+08:00","text":"所以這個是不應該，你這樣一直要求醫界要有韌性，請問沒錢要怎麼有韌性？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:05:41.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:05:42.417000+08:00","text":"這根本就醫不下去了。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:05:49.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:06:08.179000+08:00","text":"我想陳院長也很內行，像成本控制等等，但是我們跟韓國一樣，醫學生不要選內外婦兒，會被告，韓國的醫療糾紛比我們還要強烈，大家都要去走美容、皮膚等等。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:06:08.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:06:39.011000+08:00","text":"我們這裡跟韓國幾乎一模一樣，他們的醫師數是八萬多，我們的醫師數是五萬多，它現在醫學院每一年招收差不多三千多位，我們差不多招一千五，它現在要加到一年要收五千多個，所以整個都崩盤了，醫師分配不均、偏鄉不足等等，臺灣再加上我們的健保是用總額預算，每一年要結清，所以院長，醫界的要求不多啦！","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:06:47.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:06:48.335000+08:00","text":"1點1元，至少要0.95啦！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:06:48.335000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:06:48.875000+08:00","text":"不然的話，醫不下去了啦！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:06:55.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:07:15.956000+08:00","text":"前幾天護理全聯會來找我，他說他們希望新進的護理師有70萬，然後資深的希望每個月的薪資能9萬到10萬，其他醫事相關放射、檢驗等等，那都要漲啊！","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:07:17.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:07:19.999000+08:00","text":"醫生已經15年薪水沒調整，15年了喔！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:07:19.999000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:07:21.291667+08:00","text":"有一天我們薛部長跟我講，放射科很危險喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:07:21.291667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:07:22.584333+08:00","text":"現在那些晶片業者要放射師去做他們的screen，這樣下去會拉很多人去，他們的開價都是8萬、9萬、10萬，會跑光耶！","quality":0.021},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:07:22.584333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:07:23.877000+08:00","text":"院長，你有什麼想法嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:07:23.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:07:26.899000+08:00","text":"有，醫事人員非醫師的薪資部分，你說的這些包括護理師還有其他的部分，衛福部實際上有一個計畫要進行，我請部長簡單講一下。","quality":0.396},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:07:58.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:08:13.384000+08:00","text":"首先是護理師的部分，我們會推出一個護理繁重加給的計畫，這個計畫目前正在規劃，看今年有沒有機會去執行。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:08:14.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:08:19.347000+08:00","text":"至於其他醫事人員的部分，這個當然還要再做一些估算。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:08:19.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:08:38.859000+08:00","text":"早上廖委員提了發展特別條例，被你們打槍，我有看到，那個是比較難，但是我要跟你報告，我們的給付偏低，重症沒人要走，還有核刪還要放大，沒人這樣啦！","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:08:39.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:08:40.341000+08:00","text":"薪水可以打折嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:08:40.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:08:43.303000+08:00","text":"你在這邊宣示薪水可以打折，我馬上出去放鞭炮，院長，可以嗎？","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:08:46.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:08:46.545000+08:00","text":"不行嘛！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:08:46.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:08:48.786000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:08:48.786000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:07.209000+08:00","text":"所以我希望我們來搞個不要用總額預算，總額改成目標制，然後我們來修健保法第六十二條之三，我已經提出去連署了，補到0.95，補到0.95，真的是不足。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:07.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:12.815000+08:00","text":"就像德國這樣，它是把明年的挪到今年來補，也是可以啊！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:12.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:13.155000+08:00","text":"不能讓醫療崩掉啊！院長。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:17.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:18.681000+08:00","text":"我想委員也很清楚啦！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:18.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:19.763000+08:00","text":"點數、點值、總額預算是多少，這不是只有從政府這邊來講而已……","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:19.763000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:22.118667+08:00","text":"政府的支持是對的，你要占36%……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:22.118667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:24.474333+08:00","text":"這是醫界還有病人的團體等等，大家要一起來討論，所以很多事情的討論不是只有站在醫事人員，包括病人的團體等等，還有……","quality":0.098},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:24.474333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:26.830000+08:00","text":"現在是一個good timing……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:26.830000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:29.185667+08:00","text":"通通要一起來討論……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:29.185667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:31.541333+08:00","text":"非常好的關鍵時刻。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:31.541333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:09:33.897000+08:00","text":"大家討論後會比較好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:09:33.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:06.521000+08:00","text":"我們準總統是腎臟科醫生，部長是婦產科，然後你是公衛，這個時間點是最好的，大家又那麼關心，然後醫療真的又很差，這個時候好好地把總額6%往上拉。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:07.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:16.955000+08:00","text":"再來，你說要把長照納進來，就把它納進來啊，長照保險法沒有辦法單獨立法，我們就把它納到健保法裡面，把這個百分比拉高，把政府投資的GDP拉高，一勞永逸，要不要？","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:16.955000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:22.038857+08:00","text":"這是委員的意見，還是所有醫界的意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:22.038857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:27.122714+08:00","text":"差不多大家都……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:27.122714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:32.206571+08:00","text":"醫界的意見是不是所有人民的看法，還有所有醫院經營者的看法？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:32.206571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:37.290429+08:00","text":"這一定要大家一起來討論，當然委員有創意，提出一個修法的意見是很好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:37.290429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:42.374286+08:00","text":"那個我跟部長說……","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:42.374286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:47.458143+08:00","text":"但是大家要來討論，我覺得這個要先討論清楚。","quality":0.053},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:47.458143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:10:52.542000+08:00","text":"再來，你們不要健保未倒，醫院就先倒了。","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:10:52.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:11:02.146000+08:00","text":"今天很多委員都在替醫療院所發聲，你凍漲的有農、漁，有社福，你怎麼不把醫療放進去呢？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:11:02.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:11:03.267000+08:00","text":"我們已經漲32%了，今年又再漲11%、15%，不就要死了！","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:11:04.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:11:06.568000+08:00","text":"對鄉下來說真的很嚴重耶！","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:11:06.568000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:11:13.237000+08:00","text":"院長，你們只是一直在研究、一直在研究。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:11:13.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:11:16.360000+08:00","text":"委員，你一樣有看清楚，你這裡一樣有資料嘛，有提到醫學中心的部分是0.5%到1%；區域、地區醫院是2到3%；偏遠的小醫院是4%，現在是說它占4%，對於整體的營運成本會有多少影響。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:11:16.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:11:43.563000+08:00","text":"當然我也知道醫療機構是相當地辛苦，我也感謝他們照顧民眾的健康，但是這個補助的問題就要看政府的能力。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:11:44.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:11:52.550000+08:00","text":"再來，前幾天衛福部把掛號費上限取消，好像很好一樣，部長，你很夭壽耶！","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:11:53.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:11:55.632000+08:00","text":"怎麼可能掛號費沒有上限？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:11:56.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:05.879000+08:00","text":"結果引起百姓的不滿，我們在基層聽到，大家都罵得要死，結果你反而把醫界推到百姓的對立面，這很糟糕耶！","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:05.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:06.500000+08:00","text":"沒有人這麼做的啦！部長。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:08.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:09.842000+08:00","text":"委員，你的意思是說要限制它，不能提高嗎？","quality":0.471},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:09.842000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:11.623000+08:00","text":"你可以報備，你可以訂百分之幾，你不可以說都不管、隨便它。","quality":0.208},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:11.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:29.735000+08:00","text":"以前就是報備，以前是只有報備而已，結果每一個衛生局都把它變成審查，但是他們於法無據啊，因為行政費用……","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:29.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:30.075000+08:00","text":"我們現在是讓醫療機構自己去決定。對。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:30.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:31.036000+08:00","text":"我向委員報告，掛號費目前的情況，這樣看起來，實際上……","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:31.036000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:32.036000+08:00","text":"你不夠錢，所以就取消掛號費限制，但是這是很夭壽的措施。","quality":0},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:31.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:31.937000+08:00","text":"現在有漲的才57間。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:31.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:32.937000+08:00","text":"全臺灣57間。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:32.937000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:33.937000+08:00","text":"誰敢漲價？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:32.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:32.157000+08:00","text":"我們屏東要怎麼漲？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:32.157000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:36.416400+08:00","text":"那都是鄉下，你敢漲，他就跟你拚了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:36.416400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:40.675800+08:00","text":"你沒有限制，它也不會漲啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:40.675800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:44.935200+08:00","text":"回到初衷啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:44.935200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:49.194600+08:00","text":"健保法要弄好啦，你們現在是最好的時間，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:49.194600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:53.454000+08:00","text":"健保法要做好，要大家一起來努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:53.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:57.936000+08:00","text":"我再問一下，委員的意思是說不應該這樣做，所以掛號費一樣要限制，是不是這樣？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:58.016000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:58.476000+08:00","text":"一樣由縣市政府來規範，就是不一樣啦。","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:12:58.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:12:59.276000+08:00","text":"本來應該是備查變成審查喔！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:20.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:20.469000+08:00","text":"對，審查沒關係啊！","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:20.469000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:21.469000+08:00","text":"不行啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:21.469000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:22.469000+08:00","text":"不能這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"薛部長瑞元","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:22.469000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:23.469000+08:00","text":"於法無據啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:23.469000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:24.469000+08:00","text":"部長，感謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:24.469000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:25.469000+08:00","text":"我們請環境部。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:22.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:23.072000+08:00","text":"這是醫院管理……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:24.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:24.994000+08:00","text":"請環境部，有更嚴重的事情要跟你報告。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:25.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:26.675000+08:00","text":"那是醫療機構的行政管理費，不應該跟健保一起講。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:26.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:27.136000+08:00","text":"環境部……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:27.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:27.677000+08:00","text":"我剩4分鐘而已，要講快一點。","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:43.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:45.541000+08:00","text":"院長，你是高雄人喔！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:45.541000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:46.541000+08:00","text":"對，我是高雄人。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:45.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:13:56.763000+08:00","text":"我是屏東人，你看我們現在的家園變成這樣，這是鹽埔啦，這是麟洛啦，你看看，都鋪水泥啦！","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:13:58.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:14:01.324000+08:00","text":"做這種光電將來怎麼有辦法復耕啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:14:02.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:14:14.865000+08:00","text":"你看這個長青苔，這樣東一塊、西一塊，現在有在限制了，那個寸草不生啦，你看這整個都是，這個更誇張！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:14:22.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:14:25.753000+08:00","text":"環境部薛部長，你的看法如何？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"薛部長富盛","start":"2024-03-26T15:14:25.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:14:36.701000+08:00","text":"跟蘇委員報告，我們現在的環評法裡面針對光電這一塊，事實上只有重要濕地的部分，但是我們已經聽到聲音，所以現在在進行整個修法的工作。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:14:37.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:14:40.214000+08:00","text":"院長，旁邊蓋了太陽能板，蚊蟲都躲在那裡，都跑到果園，農藥越噴越重，世上有這種做法？","quality":0.514},{"speaker":"薛部長富盛","start":"2024-03-26T15:14:49.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:05.323000+08:00","text":"跟蘇委員報告，其實光電板相較於其他的再生能源，它對環境的衝擊是比較小，所以當初的環評認定才會只有重要濕地要經過環評，其他的就配合整個……","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:05.323000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:06.587250+08:00","text":"院長，石化的percent一直一直增加，你這個又增加沒多少，這產的電量是一點點，所以一開始就錯了，就是非核家園亂搞嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:06.587250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:07.851500+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:07.851500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:09.115750+08:00","text":"現在光電的占比是很高，不是不高喔！對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:09.115750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:10.380000+08:00","text":"現在我跟委員說，所有用來做光電發展的這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:10.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:10.980000+08:00","text":"我們來講漁電共生，這是人家在抗爭的啦！","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:38.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:41.463000+08:00","text":"你看這片，這片就是要去墾丁、車城，你看，行政院說這是美麗的天際線啦！","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:41.463000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:43.829800+08:00","text":"看了都快吐血了！","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:43.829800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:46.196600+08:00","text":"漁電共生連一隻魚都沒有。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"薛部長富盛","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:46.196600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:48.563400+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，像漁電共生那個，它還是限制40%，不能超過它的面積的40%……","quality":0.036},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:48.563400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:50.930200+08:00","text":"這個是空照圖，你看看。","quality":0},{"speaker":"薛部長富盛","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:50.930200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:53.297000+08:00","text":"當然我們認為有必要跟民眾加強溝通，這個是有必要的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:15:53.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:15:55.679000+08:00","text":"好，再來，你看這裡，這裡是老埤農場，種茶葉的，六、七百公頃要拿去做光電啦！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:16:23.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:16:25.780000+08:00","text":"它茶葉生產的品質很好耶！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:16:26.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:16:29.701000+08:00","text":"六、七百公頃耶！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:16:32.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:10.625000+08:00","text":"而且我聽到很多施工的單位來跟我陳情，陳院長，你可能沒聽過，你的光電補助那些能源大廠的大老闆，躲在後面賺得飽飽飽；這些廠商，水電、營造、土木的沒錢拿，做好也沒錢，已經做好在發電、在賺錢了，也都還拿不到錢，多少的這些承包商還要面對百姓的陳抗跟糾紛，然後拿不到錢、倒閉，這是另類喔！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:11.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:16.647000+08:00","text":"你去補那些大老闆，這些大老闆沒有錢給這些施工的人啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:17.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:19.348000+08:00","text":"這些施工的工人是要吃飯、要養妻小耶！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:19.348000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:20.787000+08:00","text":"結果他就在那邊亂搞，院長，這點你要去清查，好不好？","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:20.787000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:22.226000+08:00","text":"好，我們來清查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:22.226000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:23.665000+08:00","text":"下去清查，這個是非常非常惡劣、非常非常糟糕，我以為是少數，結果是大多數，所以這些光電業者真的沒血沒淚！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員清泉","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:23.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:25.366000+08:00","text":"這些大老闆，我在這裡也強烈地給他們譴責，希望部長跟院長去查看看。","quality":0.345},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:25.366000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:38.416000+08:00","text":"我們來清查。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳院長建仁","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:38.416000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:51.466000+08:00","text":"有不法的話，我們來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:51.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:54.811000+08:00","text":"謝謝蘇清泉委員的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:54.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:55.811000+08:00","text":"接下來登記第13號李坤城委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。","quality":0.081},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:55.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:56.811000+08:00","text":"解決出養制度漏洞、增加兒少照護預算","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:56.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:57.811000+08:00","text":"兒童凱凱遭虐致死案件，暴露台灣出養制度缺失，尤其是出養等待期的安置資源嚴重不足。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:57.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:58.811000+08:00","text":"以個案為例，兒童出生於脆弱家庭，透過新北市、台北市社會局轉介到兒童福利聯盟，兒福聯盟雖然找了合格的保母照顧小孩，還是出了問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:58.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:17:59.811000+08:00","text":"根據衛福部盤點統計，目前全台3歲以下出養幼兒有177人，正由八個民間團體媒合出養家庭中，地方社會局不應在評估決定出養後就放手不管。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:59.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:00.811000+08:00","text":"在制度改善的空窗期，我們要求衛福部應積極和各縣市社福單位確認掌控這177位3歲以下孩童的安置照顧狀況，增加訪視頻率，確保兒虐或不當對待憾事再度發生。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:00.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:01.811000+08:00","text":"1，脆弱家庭的孩子在出養階段的托育或安置費用，不應由媒合機構負擔，政府應該負責。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:01.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:02.811000+08:00","text":"2，出養階段的托育保姆，應該受到更多的監督管理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:02.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:03.811000+08:00","text":"3，出養必要性評估，應修法改為地方政府辦理，避免媒合機構在出養評估時從寬認定；出養費用也需要有一致性的標準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:03.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:04.811000+08:00","text":"4，衛福部應該全面檢討安置資源，增加安置經費，並規劃相應的財源挹注，現行的兒少預算不到GDP的百分之三，資源不足造成兒少業務人力及相關制度難以完善，政府應逐年提高兒少預算，達到OECD國家的平均占GDP的6%。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:04.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:05.811000+08:00","text":"5，照護安置經費應有適當調整機制，每年參照CPI年增率公告調整，讓更多照顧兒童的安置系統，不論是居家托育保母或是寄養家庭，願意加入孩童安置的行列。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:05.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:06.811000+08:00","text":"家庭幫傭申請條件放寬","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:06.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:07.811000+08:00","text":"台灣於2004年開放家庭幫傭，當年的規定，雇主申請初次招募時的條件：","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:07.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:08.811000+08:00","text":"一、有年齡三歲以下之三胞胎以上之多胞子女。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:08.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:09.811000+08:00","text":"二、累計點數滿十六點者。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:09.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:10.811000+08:00","text":"2020年才修正為現行規定，雇主申請招募條件：","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:10.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:11.811000+08:00","text":"一、有三名以上之年齡六歲以下子女。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:11.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:12.811000+08:00","text":"二、有四名以上之年齡十二歲以下子女，且其中二名為年齡六歲以下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:12.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:13.811000+08:00","text":"三、累計點數滿十六點者。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:13.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:14.811000+08:00","text":"日前接獲一個陳情案例，該陳情人家中有長子6歲4個月大，雙胞胎弟弟妹妹目前6個月大，現任的家庭幫傭已僱用3個多月，因有餵錯藥及泡奶水量錯誤等重大錯誤，欲替換人選重新招聘，結果因長子已逾6歲，失去申請資格。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:14.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:15.811000+08:00","text":"上述之標準過於嚴苛，除非是一次3胞胎，若是一次一胎，跨了6年，即使生了3胎，依舊達不到申請資格。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:15.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:16.811000+08:00","text":"少子女化乃之嚴重國安危機，當前台灣所面臨的情勢嚴峻，若是在申請家庭幫傭之資格過於嚴苛，無益幫助減緩少子女化之情形。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:16.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:17.811000+08:00","text":"依據內政部統計，以111年為例，生育三胎以上之戶數僅佔總數12%，符合條件比例不高，若加上經濟條件，能夠申請者就更少。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:17.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:18.811000+08:00","text":"根據勞動部統計，截至113年1月底，我國家庭幫傭申請外籍移工數量為1927人，佔我國外籍移工整體比例，僅佔0.25%。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:18.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:19.811000+08:00","text":"因此，放寬申請條件，增加外勞聘用人數，影響幅度非常的小。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:19.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:20.811000+08:00","text":"政府要鼓勵生育，家庭幫傭之申請資格就應該大幅放寬條件，對於願意生育孩子的夫婦，申請幫傭不要讓他們面臨上述如此困境。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:20.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:21.811000+08:00","text":"一、家庭幫傭申請條件放寬為有二名以上之年齡六歲以下子女。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:21.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:22.811000+08:00","text":"二、六歲以上至十二歲以下兒童，納入計點範圍。","quality":0},{"speaker":"委員李坤城書面質詢","start":"2024-03-26T15:18:22.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:23.811000+08:00","text":"三、重新招聘時，家庭幫傭應與家庭看護工條件一致。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-03-26T15:17:55.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-03-26T15:18:00.279000+08:00","text":"再接下來我們請登記第14號蘇委員巧慧質詢。","quality":0.611}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}