{"error":false,"id":["151348"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151348,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151348","日期":"2024-04-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-18T09:13:09+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-18T09:25:16+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:07","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b445c9c1bb741e942c4504d5d2f84b0f7606c5dab72e655c1c94fe735c1817cf84155ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林岱樺","委員發言時間":"09:13:09 - 09:25:16","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算非營業部分關於經濟部主管：經濟作業基金、水資源作業基金、經濟特別收入基金、核能發電後端營運基金。(詢答)）","gazette":{"lineno":325,"blocks":[["林委員岱樺：（9時13分）有請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["林委員岱樺：我們缺水危機正在來襲，而且是更加嚴重，我們政府應該嚴陣以待，包括今天報導的頭條：「水情緊！超越百年大旱」，而且石門蓄水率剩24%，依照剛才最新水庫的狀態，前三大水庫的蓄水量幾乎都是平均二十幾趴而已。本席就針對極端氣候下的降水情形、缺水也正在進行的狀態以及用水政策跟配套措施跟您進行討論，最後是本席的具體要求。","在極端氣候下，本席在3月的時候，也向中央氣象署索資，既然臺灣每年11月到隔年4月是枯水期，每年5月到10月是豐水期，而豐水期水源的來源有兩個：第一個是梅雨；第二個是颱風。按照今年中央氣象署的研判，在今年豐水期當中，3到5月以及6到8月，北、中、南、東下雨是正常偏少的，在西北太平洋的颱風是正常偏少的，所以雨量、梅雨、颱風都是正常偏少。在缺水的部分，過去都是17、18年一個大循環，什麼大循環呢？一個大旱、一個大水，現在已經縮短為7到9年，就是一個大旱跟大水，所以臺灣長期仰賴水庫供水，但在氣候變遷的這個時代，甚至在最近將近三、四年前發生了臺灣歷經56年來首次的沒有颱風入境，而也發生最大規模的乾旱。目前我們的水情拉警報，水量也持續下降，21座的水庫中，有14座蓄水量不到4成，其中8座蓄水量跌破3成。雖然今天下了大雨，天佑臺灣！但是對集水區的水土狀態，有了大旱之後，有了大水，那個水質、那個地表一定是不穩定的，再加上發生7.6級地震，我想集水區相關的地質狀況、水土保持狀況，本席也提出提醒。對於用水政策，既然今年都可以預估是缺水的，你們是怎麼調配民生、農業、工業用水呢？目前搶水的狀態會是什麼樣的調配呢？以及針對4月春雨跟5月梅雨如果降雨情形不佳，颱風季節所帶來的雨量又減少，你又如何面對缺水以及相關的配套呢？部長，請你回應一下，這是現在大家都在關心的議題。"],["王部長美花：今年的春雨確實還不是很理想，但是跟百年大旱比起來，其實都還有相關的降雨，如果大家記得百年大旱的時候，那是連雨都不下。第二個，在枯水期的時候，我們都加強工業用水的節水，都希望他們能夠儘量節水；另外，在相關民生跟農業的部分，我們也都精準地來調配，當然也希望大家能夠節約用水。臺灣枯水期跟豐水期的差距確實都比較多，不過，因應全球氣候變遷的部分，所以我們相關的供水韌性計畫，不斷地增加南北水的調動跟供應，這個就是現在還在持續增加處理的情形。"],["林委員岱樺：好，你講到供水韌性的這句話，也就是本席最後的具體建議，供水韌性主責就是在水利署跟水公司，臺灣的缺水狀態在全世界排名，我記得是第18名還第十幾名的缺水國家，但是自來水這家公司，我不曉得它怎麼因應你講的供水韌性啦！它用自己現在破千億的負債，為國家貢獻了什麼？已從92年的24.58%降至12.54%，20年內降了12.4%的漏水量，這個數字跟日本東京來相比是有過之而無不及，完全是它破千億的貢獻。水既然是日常生活不可或缺的民生必需品，本席都認為自來水管線就是基礎建設的一環，這句話部長你認不認同？自來水管線是基礎、是我們供水韌性基礎建設的一環，你認不認同？是或不是？"],["王部長美花：當然是。"],["林委員岱樺：好。全臺灣自來水管都是台水所有，台水公司也是百分百政府持股，行政院就應該重視，既然自來水是基礎建設，為什麼它的維護、汰換全部都是由台水處理？如果你是台水的董事長，我不曉得你怎麼經營啊！您說看看，你的千億是怎麼來的，為什麼會有破千億的負債呢？"],["王部長美花：跟委員報告，相關國營事業營運的時候，當然都會有金流進出，這個1,000億其實是相關金流的問題，台水公司管線的汰換，事實上在前瞻計畫也有相關的經費支出。"],["林委員岱樺：部長，我直接點給你聽，很明顯你不曉得細節，所以你就不曉得要怎麼去支持台水了。這個破千億，第一個水電的增加，只要漲水漲電，他們就是用電大戶。再來，你的管線維修，即使你的專管有政府支持，所有的管線維修也是它；第三個，漏水管的預算也是它；第四個，因為它已經負債千億了，利息也是它，連你剛才講的如果是因為缺水而導致休耕，這樣是誰來補？水利署跟台水補；所以再來你又限制它什麼？限制它的水費要不要增加是中央決定，所以連本席一再地呼籲說你們應該增加千度以上用水大戶的級距給台水收，針對這個用水大戶的部分你也不同意，你反而叫做耗水費，耗水費誰收啊？你旁邊的水利署在收，我都不曉得台水已經負債千億投入所有的公共建設，然後剛才講的全部，甚至連休耕之後水利署補助，那它也要補，這叫做什麼？那個臺語要怎麼說？有功無賞啦！打破要賠！問題就不是它撞破的，所以我不曉得……主計總處上來一下，主席，有請主計總處。"],["主席：我們請主計總處。"],["林委員岱樺：經濟部雖然你有針對本席的意見去跟主計總處說、跟行政院說：好，它的虧損我分兩年。本席要求用兩年來補，結果主計說所有各國營事業如果虧損的話，那是不是都要行政院來補？它的意思是這樣，它的回文是這樣，我不曉得主計總處這邊，我已經講得很清楚了，包括台水是63年以前，它不是全部國營所有，它是63到67年，如果我印象沒錯，這4年才把所有各縣市政府的水管整個收歸到那時候的省政府，之後才作為國有，所以在63年以前的基礎建設，所有都是地方自己做的，品質之差，不好意思，全部都是要水公司、國營事業負擔，所以它的基礎跟電跟油是不一樣的。雖然主計總處來的官階不高，但是既然你來了，我這樣的說明、本席這樣的陳述，你認為主計總處還有什麼理由不補台水？在它的這個破千億的情況之下，我們部長很好，他還講了很多目標，剛才他還說要增加供水韌性，全部都台水你自己付啦！除了專管是政府出，其他全部都台水自己付，我不曉得這樣公司要怎麼經營？來，主計總處。"],["周科長明政：謝謝委員的質詢。有關台水這部分的話，其實主計總處針對台水一些相關可能投資上不具效益的重大公共建設，主計總處都有做一個增資的挹注來協助台水辦理一些基礎的水利建設。"],["林委員岱樺：好，您答的跟實際的好像都不太一樣，因為我剛才已經講得很清楚了，所有它虧損的狀況，包括公共建設的狀況，中央除了補專管之外，其他維護、汰換都是它自己處理，所以全部都是它自己。所以我在這邊具體要求，應該由中央政府編列相關的預算給台水，用複數年的專案補助給台水，或者納入第五期，也就是明年要審的114年1到8月，第五期的前瞻計畫基礎建設，部長，這可以嗎？我只是針對它的基礎建設，我還沒講到它虧損的部分、借債的部分。"],["王部長美花：是，謝謝委員支持，經濟部確實會幫台水爭取相關的公務預算來給它做撥補，我們會提出80億元的相關撥補經費，當然希望院裡面能夠支持。"],["林委員岱樺：80億太少啦！真的，除非你說的「供水韌性」這4個字，你會講到「電力韌性」，「供水韌性」在你經濟部，如果你給80億的話，那後續所有的台積電，現在是全臺灣都在開花，這是好事，但你的耗水量之高啊！我都不曉得你的供水韌性在哪裡，請你嚴肅地面對，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：是，我們會去檢討。"],["主席：好，謝謝，接下來我們請張嘉郡委員，請做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":412,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-8","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","鄭天財Sra 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剛才講的全部甚至連這個這個修根之後他也要補助水利署也補助那他也要補這叫做什麼話 郵供 那個台語怎麼說 郵供沒什麼啦 怕破怕破沒破就對了 怕破要破 問題是怕破人家都破 人家都是他都破的"},{"start":498.991,"end":526.425,"text":"所以我不曉得這個今天主計處上來一下主計處主席有請主計處我們請主計處這個經濟部雖然你有針對本席的意見去跟主計總處說行政院說好那他的虧損我分兩年本席要求用兩年來補結果主計說這虧損如果是這樣的話所有這個各國營事業如果虧損的話那是不是都要行政院來補"},{"start":528.035,"end":543.625,"text":"那他的意思是這樣他的回文是這樣嘛那我不曉得來水利那個主計總書這邊林岱我已經講得很清楚了包括台水喔是63年以前他不是他不是全部國營所有他是63到67年"},{"start":545.726,"end":567.717,"text":"如果我印象沒錯這4年他才是把所有各縣市政府的水管整個才收歸那時候的這個省政府之後才作為國有所以在63年以前的基礎建設是所有都是地方自己做的品質之差不好意思全部都是要水公司國營事業全部來負擔"},{"start":569.318,"end":590.88,"text":"所以它的基礎跟台、跟電、跟油是不一樣的所以我不想主計總出來雖然我這個您來的這個關節不高但是既然你來了你就替我這樣的說明本席這樣的一個陳述你認為這個主計處還有什麼理由不補台水"},{"start":592.034,"end":609.346,"text":"在他的這個破千億的情況之下你現在又講到我們部長很好他還講很多目標剛才說他還要增加供水韌性全部都台水你自己扶啦除了專管是政府出其他全部都台水自己扶我不曉得這樣公司他要怎麼經營欸來 主計總處"},{"start":615.968,"end":632.778,"text":"謝謝委員的資訊,就有關臺水這個部分的話,其實主席總署針對臺水的一些相關可能投資上可能不具效益的一些公共重大公共建設的話,其實主席總署都有做一個政治的一個挹注來協助那個臺水他幫你一些基礎的隨意建設"},{"start":633.732,"end":655.799,"text":"好 那個您答的跟實際的好像都不太一樣因為我剛剛已經講得很清楚了所有它虧損的狀況包括公共建設的狀況那這個中央除了補專管之外其他維護、汰換都是它處理所以所有的全部都是它自己然後呢 所以我在這邊具體要求政府應該由中央政府編列相關的預算給台水"},{"start":656.819,"end":666.049,"text":"用這個附屬年的這個專案補助給台水那或者納入第5期也就是明年要審的114年1到8月第5期的前瞻計畫基礎建設部長這可以嗎我只是針對他的基礎建設我還沒講到那個他的那個虧損的部分借債的部分"},{"start":678.322,"end":679.884,"text":"謝謝委員支持那經濟部確實會幫台水來爭取相關的公務預算來給他做撥補那我們會提出80億元的這個相關的撥補經費那當然希望院裡面能夠支持80億太少啦"},{"start":695.586,"end":703.331,"text":"真的,除非你叫供水韌性這四個字你會講到台電力韌性供水韌性在你經濟部如果你只貶81的話那你後續所有的台積電現在全台灣都在開花這是好事你的那個耗水量之高啊我都不曉得你的這個供水韌性在哪裡這請你嚴肅的面對,謝謝我們後續檢討,好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:13:09+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-18T09:13:10+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-18T09:13:10+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-18T09:13:11+08:00","text":"請王部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-18T09:13:11+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-18T09:13:12+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:13:09.009000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:13:13.970000+08:00","text":"我們缺水危機正在來襲，而且是更加嚴重，我們政府應該嚴陣以待，包括今天報導的頭條：「水情緊！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:13:14.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:13:54.819000+08:00","text":"超越百年大旱」，而且石門蓄水率剩24%，依照剛才最新水庫的狀態，前三大水庫的蓄水量幾乎都是平均二十幾趴而已。","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:13:54.819000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-18T09:14:20.633000+08:00","text":"本席就針對極端氣候下的降水情形、缺水也正在進行的狀態以及用水政策跟配套措施跟您進行討論，最後是本席的具體要求。","quality":0.231},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:14:20.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:14:30.064000+08:00","text":"在極端氣候下，本席在3月的時候，也向中央氣象署索資，既然臺灣每年11月到隔年4月是枯水期，每年5月到10月是豐水期，而豐水期水源的來源有兩個：第一個是梅雨；第二個是颱風。","quality":0.543},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:14:30.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:14:50.917000+08:00","text":"按照今年中央氣象署的研判，在今年豐水期當中，3到5月以及6到8月，北、中、南、東下雨是正常偏少的，在西北太平洋的颱風是正常偏少的，所以雨量、梅雨、颱風都是正常偏少。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:14:52.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:14:58.153000+08:00","text":"在缺水的部分，過去都是17、18年一個大循環，什麼大循環呢？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:14:58.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:15:13.657000+08:00","text":"一個大旱、一個大水，現在已經縮短為7到9年，就是一個大旱跟大水，所以臺灣長期仰賴水庫供水，但在氣候變遷的這個時代，甚至在最近將近三、四年前發生了臺灣歷經56年來首次的沒有颱風入境，而也發生最大規模的乾旱。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:15:21.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:15:34.749000+08:00","text":"目前我們的水情拉警報，水量也持續下降，21座的水庫中，有14座蓄水量不到4成，其中8座蓄水量跌破3成。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:15:35.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:15:39.273000+08:00","text":"雖然今天下了大雨，天佑臺灣！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:15:39.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:15:58.276000+08:00","text":"但是對集水區的水土狀態，有了大旱之後，有了大水，那個水質、那個地表一定是不穩定的，再加上發生7.6級地震，我想集水區相關的地質狀況、水土保持狀況，本席也提出提醒。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:16:00.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:16:14.762000+08:00","text":"對於用水政策，既然今年都可以預估是缺水的，你們是怎麼調配民生、農業、工業用水呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:16:15.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:16:20.664000+08:00","text":"目前搶水的狀態會是什麼樣的調配呢？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:16:22.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:16:34.155000+08:00","text":"以及針對4月春雨跟5月梅雨如果降雨情形不佳，颱風季節所帶來的雨量又減少，你又如何面對缺水以及相關的配套呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:16:34.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:16:36.514000+08:00","text":"部長，請你回應一下，這是現在大家都在關心的議題。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-18T09:16:36.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:16:53.587000+08:00","text":"今年的春雨確實還不是很理想，但是跟百年大旱比起來，其實都還有相關的降雨，如果大家記得百年大旱的時候，那是連雨都不下。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-18T09:16:54.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:16:59.850000+08:00","text":"第二個，在枯水期的時候，我們都加強工業用水的節水，都希望他們能夠儘量節水；另外，在相關民生跟農業的部分，我們也都精準地來調配，當然也希望大家能夠節約用水。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-18T09:17:00.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:17:32.440000+08:00","text":"臺灣枯水期跟豐水期的差距確實都比較多，不過，因應全球氣候變遷的部分，所以我們相關的供水韌性計畫，不斷地增加南北水的調動跟供應，這個就是現在還在持續增加處理的情形。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:17:32.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:18:05.209000+08:00","text":"好，你講到供水韌性的這句話，也就是本席最後的具體建議，供水韌性主責就是在水利署跟水公司，臺灣的缺水狀態在全世界排名，我記得是第18名還第十幾名的缺水國家，但是自來水這家公司，我不曉得它怎麼因應你講的供水韌性啦！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:18:06.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:18:17.133000+08:00","text":"它用自己現在破千億的負債，為國家貢獻了什麼？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:18:17.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:18:32.601000+08:00","text":"已從92年的24.58%降至12.54%，20年內降了12.4%的漏水量，這個數字跟日本東京來相比是有過之而無不及，完全是它破千億的貢獻。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:18:33.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:18:46.170000+08:00","text":"水既然是日常生活不可或缺的民生必需品，本席都認為自來水管線就是基礎建設的一環，這句話部長你認不認同？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:18:46.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:18:55.017000+08:00","text":"自來水管線是基礎、是我們供水韌性基礎建設的一環，你認不認同？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:18:55.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:18:56.498000+08:00","text":"是或不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-18T09:18:57.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:18:57.859000+08:00","text":"當然是。好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:18:59.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:19:17.627000+08:00","text":"全臺灣自來水管都是台水所有，台水公司也是百分百政府持股，行政院就應該重視，既然自來水是基礎建設，為什麼它的維護、汰換全部都是由台水處理？","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:19:17.627000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-18T09:19:18.627000+08:00","text":"如果你是台水的董事長，我不曉得你怎麼經營啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:19:18.627000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-18T09:19:19.627000+08:00","text":"您說看看，你的千億是怎麼來的，為什麼會有破千億的負債呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-18T09:19:19.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:19:38.464000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，相關國營事業營運的時候，當然都會有金流進出，這個1,000億其實是相關金流的問題，台水公司管線的汰換，事實上在前瞻計畫也有相關的經費支出。","quality":0.677},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:19:38.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:19:39.445000+08:00","text":"部長，我直接點給你聽，很明顯你不曉得細節，所以你就不曉得要怎麼去支持台水了。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:19:54.541000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:20:04.133000+08:00","text":"這個破千億，第一個水電的增加，只要漲水漲電，他們就是用電大戶。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:20:04.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:20:27.378000+08:00","text":"再來，你的管線維修，即使你的專管有政府支持，所有的管線維修也是它；第三個，漏水管的預算也是它；第四個，因為它已經負債千億了，利息也是它，連你剛才講的如果是因為缺水而導致休耕，這樣是誰來補？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:20:27.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:20:35.224000+08:00","text":"水利署跟台水補；所以再來你又限制它什麼？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:20:35.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:20:56.109000+08:00","text":"限制它的水費要不要增加是中央決定，所以連本席一再地呼籲說你們應該增加千度以上用水大戶的級距給台水收，針對這個用水大戶的部分你也不同意，你反而叫做耗水費，耗水費誰收啊？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:20:56.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:21:15.562000+08:00","text":"你旁邊的水利署在收，我都不曉得台水已經負債千億投入所有的公共建設，然後剛才講的全部，甚至連休耕之後水利署補助，那它也要補，這叫做什麼？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:21:15.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:21:18.264000+08:00","text":"那個臺語要怎麼說？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:21:18.264000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-18T09:21:22.287000+08:00","text":"有功無賞啦！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:21:22.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:21:22.407000+08:00","text":"打破要賠！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:21:22.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:21:35.375000+08:00","text":"問題就不是它撞破的，所以我不曉得……主計總處上來一下，主席，有請主計總處。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-18T09:21:35.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:21:38.377000+08:00","text":"我們請主計總處。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:21:38.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:21:45.880000+08:00","text":"經濟部雖然你有針對本席的意見去跟主計總處說、跟行政院說：好，它的虧損我分兩年。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:21:46.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:21:55.425000+08:00","text":"本席要求用兩年來補，結果主計說所有各國營事業如果虧損的話，那是不是都要行政院來補？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:21:57.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:22:42.723000+08:00","text":"它的意思是這樣，它的回文是這樣，我不曉得主計總處這邊，我已經講得很清楚了，包括台水是63年以前，它不是全部國營所有，它是63到67年，如果我印象沒錯，這4年才把所有各縣市政府的水管整個收歸到那時候的省政府，之後才作為國有，所以在63年以前的基礎建設，所有都是地方自己做的，品質之差，不好意思，全部都是要水公司、國營事業負擔，所以它的基礎跟電跟油是不一樣的。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:22:44.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:22:59.860000+08:00","text":"雖然主計總處來的官階不高，但是既然你來了，我這樣的說明、本席這樣的陳述，你認為主計總處還有什麼理由不補台水？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:23:01.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:23:12.702000+08:00","text":"在它的這個破千億的情況之下，我們部長很好，他還講了很多目標，剛才他還說要增加供水韌性，全部都台水你自己付啦！","quality":0.898},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:23:13.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:23:18.326000+08:00","text":"除了專管是政府出，其他全部都台水自己付，我不曉得這樣公司要怎麼經營？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:23:18.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:23:18.346000+08:00","text":"來，主計總處。","quality":1},{"speaker":"周科長明政","start":"2024-04-18T09:23:24.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:23:25.108000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的質詢。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"周科長明政","start":"2024-04-18T09:23:25.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:23:41.778000+08:00","text":"有關台水這部分的話，其實主計總處針對台水一些相關可能投資上不具效益的重大公共建設，主計總處都有做一個增資的挹注來協助台水辦理一些基礎的水利建設。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:23:42.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:23:58.717000+08:00","text":"好，您答的跟實際的好像都不太一樣，因為我剛才已經講得很清楚了，所有它虧損的狀況，包括公共建設的狀況，中央除了補專管之外，其他維護、汰換都是它自己處理，所以全部都是它自己。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:23:59.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:24:13.247000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊具體要求，應該由中央政府編列相關的預算給台水，用複數年的專案補助給台水，或者納入第五期，也就是明年要審的114年1到8月，第五期的前瞻計畫基礎建設，部長，這可以嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:24:13.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:24:15.029000+08:00","text":"我只是針對它的基礎建設，我還沒講到它虧損的部分、借債的部分。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-18T09:24:27.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:24:28.283000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員支持，經濟部確實會幫台水爭取相關的公務預算來給它做撥補，我們會提出80億元的相關撥補經費，當然希望院裡面能夠支持。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:24:28.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:24:28.864000+08:00","text":"80億太少啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:24:44.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:24:50.430000+08:00","text":"真的，除非你說的「供水韌性」這4個字，你會講到「電力韌性」，「供水韌性」在你經濟部，如果你給80億的話，那後續所有的台積電，現在是全臺灣都在開花，這是好事，但你的耗水量之高啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員岱樺","start":"2024-04-18T09:24:50.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:24:51.991000+08:00","text":"我都不曉得你的供水韌性在哪裡，請你嚴肅地面對，謝謝。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-18T09:24:51.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-18T09:24:52.311000+08:00","text":"是，我們會去檢討。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-18T09:24:52.811000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-18T09:24:57.953857+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，接下來我們請張嘉郡委員，請做詢答。","quality":0.167}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}