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,所以要比支持台電基層工作人員我們比誰都支持,但是如果錯誤的能源政策不改變的話,只會累死基層公務人員。謝謝。好,謝謝黃孟楷委員。接下來"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:08.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:47:10.230000+08:00","text":"主席，謝謝，麻煩請王美花部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:10.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:47:10.250000+08:00","text":"來，請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:10.250000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:47:18.744000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:18.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:47:22.265000+08:00","text":"部長，我想我還是來跟您就教理念跟觀念、立場的部分。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:23.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:47:35.207000+08:00","text":"本席看到前天你們有前往中南部舉辦中小企業的座談，會中你特別提到現在減碳和智慧化轉型是重要的項目。是。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:36.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:47:42.488000+08:00","text":"甚至好像你有提到一個例子，說現在如果跟其他企業溝通的話，一個小時有40分鐘都在討論怎麼樣減碳，是不是？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:45.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:47:50.165000+08:00","text":"這個是我到其他國家實際碰到的情形。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:51.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:47:57.672000+08:00","text":"那您知道現在國內排碳大戶前十大有哪些嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:47:58.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:48:06.381000+08:00","text":"這當然有相關的清單，包括中鋼、台積電、中油、台塑和水泥廠等等。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:48:09.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:48:14.697000+08:00","text":"最大的排碳大戶是哪個產業？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:48:14.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:48:16.558000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:48:16.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:48:17.839000+08:00","text":"石化產業是最大的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:48:18.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:48:24.523000+08:00","text":"電力跟相關的燃氣供應業啦！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:48:27.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:48:31.467000+08:00","text":"排碳大戶前十大包括台電。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:48:34.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:48:47.585000+08:00","text":"您自己也講了，減碳是現在的顯學，但是我們背道而馳，2025年反而要增加排碳的比例，80%以上是火力發電，這個您怎麼看？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:48:47.585000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:48:56.108250+08:00","text":"80%火力發電，火力發電有天然氣跟煤……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:48:56.108250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:04.631500+08:00","text":"會不會有一點點自相矛盾？","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:04.631500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:13.154750+08:00","text":"在短期之內我們是低碳，所以增加天然氣的時候可以減煤……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:13.154750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:21.678000+08:00","text":"哪裡低碳？","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:21.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:22.278000+08:00","text":"現在是增碳，增加排碳啊！","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:22.278000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:23.278000+08:00","text":"我們增加天然氣，天然氣的碳排是煤的一半。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:23.278000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:24.278000+08:00","text":"增加所有能源配比的排碳！沒有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:24.278000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:25.278000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼我們要積極增加再生能源，就是希望能夠……","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:25.278000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:26.278000+08:00","text":"部長，這個不好笑！","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:22.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:26.400000+08:00","text":"這不是一個好笑的議題，因為你講的，現在減碳是顯學，但是我們的台電反而是背道而馳。","quality":0.389},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:27.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:51.654000+08:00","text":"最近也有媒體去訪問和碩聯合科技董事長童子賢，他提到過去自己是反核人士，但是十年來關注地球暖化的議題，陷入暖化跟反核的掙扎，這兩年慢慢想清楚，說地球暖化才是人類的公敵，核能不是，核能可能是綠能的盟友，而非敵人。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:51.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:53.676000+08:00","text":"你認同這句話嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:53.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:55.577000+08:00","text":"我想大家的意見我們都尊重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:57.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:49:58.900000+08:00","text":"所以尊重是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王部長美花","start":"2024-04-24T11:49:58.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-24T11:50:02.1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