{"error":false,"id":["151825"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151825,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151825","日期":"2024-04-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-22-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-29T10:10:29+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-29T10:21:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:53","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e61c4f5af143c1f139054712d423581dcc34e2527b10508eeee5ef2ea4dde02c8b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:10:29 - 10:21:22","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：邀請文化部、教育部、內政部、法務部、金融監督管理委員會、數位發展部及行政院主計總處列席就「表演及運動賽事黃牛票氾濫，相關單位取締、防範及執法成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月29日及5月2日二天一次會））","gazette":{"lineno":376,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時10分）麻煩請文化部次長。"],["主席：文化部次長，謝謝。"],["王次長時思：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：次長，最近因為張學友演唱會大家買不到票，引起非常大的民怨，所以黃牛票這個事情，大家應該要重視。但是我看了你們的報告，我覺得你們的報告寫得天花亂墜，跟實務執行有非常大的落差，所以我想問你一下，你到底瞭不瞭解現在執行上遇到的困難？","第一、張學友演唱會，你知道他們總共賣幾萬張出去嗎？你知道嗎？","你不知道？張學友演唱會大家民怨成這樣，你們連這個細項都不知道！"],["王次長時思：我知道我們已經收到122件的檢舉案，也正在就檢舉案在辦……"],["葉委員元之：我問他們賣幾萬張出去，你不要答非所問啦！我跟你講，他們總共9場演唱會分兩次賣，第一次賣前面6場，賣了大概5萬、6萬張，第二次賣後面3場，賣了3萬張，每1場都是秒殺，很多人上去準備要買就買不到了，我想問一下次長，你相信嗎？你相信每一個人都是單純自己要看，所以等在電腦前面，然後一開賣就買不到，你覺得有可能嗎？"],["王次長時思：這就是沒有採實名制很大的缺點……"],["葉委員元之：這跟實名制沒有關係啦！你不要把什麼事情都推給實名制，你有沒有瞭解原因在哪裡，為什麼會這樣？"],["王次長時思：因為有市場，因為有人想要看這個演唱會，造成需求面遠遠大於供給面……"],["葉委員元之：不是，錯！主要就是有掃票機器人，很嚴重嘛！這個掃票機器人在哪裡，你知道嗎？你們之前抓了一個竹科工程師，後來就大肆宣傳，好像什麼業績一樣，實際上，你去看那個竹科工程師，總共就是幾個人用他的那個程式去買而已，真正大尾的抓不到！所以當時你們在發這個新聞的時候，下面網友罵翻了，都說真正的黃牛都抓不到，只會抓這個小的，所以背後到底什麼原因要去瞭解嘛！","我跟你講，實務上，我們也去問了警政機關，比如偵九隊，他們到了那些平臺要去查為什麼有人可以用程式一下子、幾秒鐘把所有的票全部掃完，結果警察到了平臺，平臺說為什麼要配合，除非找司法機關來搜索，否則不配合，實務上就面對到這樣的困難。我不知道你們知不知道這個事情，所以文化部現在要去找那些平臺問清楚，背後到底是誰可以這樣子？有沒有內部的人從中用這個事情在掃票？你們有沒有去瞭解？"],["王次長時思：有，的確，這些平臺願不願意提供這些使用者的帳號、個資的確是一個關鍵，以現在來說，像FB與Dcard，大概就是最不願意提供的，他們也是我們面臨最大的問題……"],["葉委員元之：那就是你要解決的問題嘛！你不是跟我一樣……"],["王次長時思：但是它沒有法律的強制效力。"],["葉委員元之：我們現在是把問題跟你講。次長剛剛一開始根本不瞭解狀況，還在跟我講因為沒有實名制，這跟有沒有實名制有什麼關係……"],["王次長時思：這是嚴重度的原因啦！"],["葉委員元之：而且實名制你也沒有辦法推廣到全部人採用，我們現在就是要解決這個問題，因為是眼前的民怨嘛！所以第一個、請文化部去召集相關的機關，針對這些平臺，到底為什麼一開始掃票機器人可以把票全部掃完了，這個是最大的民怨，要去瞭解，這是第一件事情。第二件事情，我看到你們講，如果是加價轉售，基本上，你們就看一下檢舉人的要件有沒有符合，就直接轉給地方政府，對不對？"],["王次長時思：因為查辦的單位是地方政府。"],["葉委員元之：是地方政府，對，很好！文化部就推給地方政府……"],["王次長時思：不是推，是因為……"],["葉委員元之：那你有沒有去瞭解一下地方政府執行的困難，有沒有？"],["王次長時思：有，我們……"],["葉委員元之：困難在哪裡？"],["王次長時思：包括教育訓練，包括一般的溝通，都一直有在……"],["葉委員元之：教育訓練就是官樣文章。我是問你，你有沒有實際去瞭解地方政府在執行這件事情所遇到的困難？"],["王次長時思：有，地方政府的困難……"],["葉委員元之：地方政府的困難在哪？"],["王次長時思：關鍵仍然是取得當事人的關鍵個資。"],["葉委員元之：你就知道嘛！因為文化部做的事情是最簡單的，你們做的是檢舉人只要有姓名、有資料或者是他有提供FB或LINE的對話，你就覺得完備了，就轉給地方政府……"],["王次長時思：就要下去展開調查。"],["葉委員元之：但是真正困難的是地方政府要去蒐集被檢舉人的資料，那我就問，各縣市政府的文化局有這個調查權嗎？收到這個檢舉案，它只能夠發文給FB或LINE或是發文給平臺，問有沒有相關資料可以提供？可是通常FB、LINE或者平臺根本不會理文化局嘛！它沒有調查權嘛！甚至於他們要去查金流，連金管會也不會理他們……"],["王次長時思：所以我們都有跟金管會……"],["葉委員元之：警察局也不理他們，警察局說，個資的部分只有在12種樣態，比如違反生命安全等等樣態的時候才會提供，所以文化局在前端一開始要去查被檢舉人資料的時候就查不到。對於黃牛，你的報告寫得天花亂墜，說你們有兩千多件，其中600件怎樣、怎樣、怎樣，但具體的困難你們都沒有去協助解決……"],["王次長時思：有，所以我們……"],["葉委員元之：推給地方政府就OK了，文化部那麼好做喔？"],["王次長時思：我們跟這些售票平臺、主辦單位，以及地方政府、警政署都是密切保持聯繫跟溝通。"],["葉委員元之：就是沒有嘛！你現在還要跟我辯這個。"],["王次長時思：有。"],["葉委員元之：我現在告訴你的就是地方政府真實的狀況，很多個縣市政府我都去問了，不用在這邊粉飾太平……"],["王次長時思：我想臺北跟高雄……"],["葉委員元之：你以為你在那邊開個教育訓練，好像長官一樣，過去跟他說你要這樣、你要這樣、你要這樣，他們忽然間就有調查權了嗎？"],["王次長時思：不是，我們是把案件實際的狀況……"],["葉委員元之：現在實際上就是沒有調查權，所以資料取得不了，你要去幫忙解決這個問題嘛！"],["王次長時思：的確文化單位因為不是警政執法單位、不是司法單位，所以在調查權上是沒有，不管是文化部或文化局都是沒有調查權。"],["葉委員元之：所以擺爛嗎？"],["王次長時思：不是，所以我們要透過其他的方式，譬如說……"],["葉委員元之：那你透過什麼方式？"],["王次長時思：關鍵就是取得票號跟票券的位置，我們就可以透過售票平臺來取得。"],["葉委員元之：請問一下，我現在講的就是取得不了，我們現在把實務的困難告訴你，你一直告訴我關鍵是要取得，但現在就是取得不了嘛！"],["王次長時思：就是售票平臺應該可以……"],["葉委員元之：不好意思，文化部，你們是要去解決問題，你要解決問題，你不是跟我們民意代表一樣，在那邊討論這個東西，你要去解決問題，你有公權力……"],["王次長時思：是，我們……"],["葉委員元之：你是文化部，你不是一般的民眾，只會把問題點出來，這個怎樣、這個怎樣、這個怎樣，不是！你要去解決問題。"],["王次長時思：我們會。"],["葉委員元之：我現在問你是你有沒有去解決問題？"],["王次長時思：有，我們會繼續努力。"],["葉委員元之：真的做得不好啦！再來，連檢舉獎金都要地方政府編，對吧？"],["王次長時思：113年開始是由地方政府編列。"],["葉委員元之：然後也沒有讓地方政府增加人嘛！所以他們現在是既有人力在擴編處理這個事嘛！","再來，問你一個問題，有一個標案我覺得非常奇怪，112年有一個黃牛檢舉及法律質詢專案辦公室的標案，一年的金額是800萬，今年跟明年編列1,500萬，請問一下這個標案是要做什麼內容？"],["王次長時思：就是現在我們針對黃牛案件的巡查、分案、案件的分析、樣態的分析，還有法律意見的提供這個功能。"],["葉委員元之：這需要1,500萬喔？"],["王次長時思：Total有18個月……"],["葉委員元之：分案我剛才已經講了，你的分案只是把有檢舉人的資料或者是他有提供FB、LINE的對話，你就轉給地方政府了，這個需要1,500萬去做？"],["王次長時思：還是要逐項檢視，這還是需要很大的人力。"],["葉委員元之：我問過地方政府，他說，通常你們就是這樣分過來了啦！"],["王次長時思：沒有，我們是逐項檢視，因為……"],["葉委員元之：逐項檢視需要那麼多錢喔？"],["王次長時思：我們提供……"],["葉委員元之：地方政府都沒有另外編預算，為什麼文化部要另外編？"],["王次長時思：整個分案跟巡查跟基礎資料調查有沒有完備是由文化部來做。"],["葉委員元之：對，但是第一個，案件不多，第二個，處理的事情也不多……"],["王次長時思：沒有，兩千多件案件都是從文化部……"],["葉委員元之：為什麼要800萬，還要1,500萬？這個非常奇怪，還是用最有利標，為什麼？為什麼是用最有利標？"],["王次長時思：因為這個案子的型態很重要的是法律的背景，所以我們希望是法律……"],["葉委員元之：所以只有特定律師可以做，其他律師不能做，對不對？所以要用最有利標？"],["王次長時思：不是特定律師，應該是說有經驗、知道、參與提供法律……"],["葉委員元之：有經驗，那怎樣有經驗由文化部來決定嘛！我們來看一下上次得標的廠商是誰，這個叫做長慧律師事務所，這個律師事務所在說明的地方直接講，因為袁律師大學時代參加謝長廷律師的新文化研習營等等，我很少看到律師事務所介紹自己跟謝長廷的關係。我們來看一下這個得標廠商的主要經歷，臺北市法務局長、不當黨產處理委員會的委員，所以這樣的案子，第一個，我聽不出來它需要1,500萬來做，第二個……"],["王次長時思：它是18個月，一年半。"],["葉委員元之：一年半，好一年半，上一次是一年嘛！"],["王次長時思：而且有9位人員。"],["葉委員元之：一年800萬嘛！"],["王次長時思：上次只有10個月。"],["葉委員元之：10個月、800萬，就次長剛剛講的內容，我不知道為什麼要花800萬來做，真的不知道，我打一個大問號，請你具體提供這800萬所服務的項目。"],["王次長時思：好。"],["葉委員元之：第二個，為什麼最有利標的得標廠商剛好就跟謝長廷很有關係，還是不當黨產處理委員會的委員啊？"],["王次長時思：我想這是在他個人的介紹裡面，我們並不是因為這個理由啦！"],["葉委員元之：不是，那是什麼理由？"],["王次長時思：主要還是因為專業……"],["葉委員元之：當然你會講別的理由啊！但是為什麼是最有利標，然後剛好又是他得標？"],["王次長時思：有兩家投標，公開評選，這個是公開招標啦！，已經有兩家投標了，目前還在公開……"],["葉委員元之：那為什麼是最有利標嘛？"],["王次長時思：用最有利標的原因是因為它有特殊條件，就是有法律背景，這只是最有利標設定的條件而已，但是還是會公開徵選……"],["葉委員元之：請你會後提供這一個所謂的800萬，到底這個廠商做哪些服務？"],["王次長時思：包括電話……"],["葉委員元之：因為就我的瞭解，分案或是什麼提供法律見解這些內容，不需要到800萬，然後得標廠商又是跟民進黨這麼好的人，外界都會提出質疑，而且今年你還增加預算，直接變成……"],["王次長時思：因為服務時間變長了。"],["葉委員元之：對，那為什麼變長？為什麼拉長？那會不會又是同一家得標？你是不是減少他得標的成本，讓他一次標到可以做比較久？"],["王次長時思：還在公開招標當中。"],["葉委員元之：沒關係，我們最後來看是誰得標嘛！文化部今天報告講一大堆，但是實務面執行問題這麼多，你們要去解決問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Line對話．轉給地方政府．需要1500萬去做．"},{"start":465.888,"end":484.959,"text":"整個分案跟巡查跟基礎資料調查有沒有完備是文化部這邊來的嗎對 但是第一個案件不多第二個處理的事情也不多為什麼要800萬還有1500萬這個非常奇怪那我們再來看一下上一次還是用最有力標為什麼"},{"start":487.296,"end":498.471,"text":"為甚麼是用最有利標?因為這個案子的形態大概有很大的很重要的是法律的背景所以只有特定律師可以做對不對其他律師不能做所以要最有利標應該是說有經驗知道有經驗的"},{"start":502.216,"end":502.516,"text":"臺北市法務局長"},{"start":529.381,"end":548.092,"text":"然後不當黨產處理委員會的委員所以這樣子一個案子第一個我聽不出來說他需要有1500萬來做他是18個月一年半一年半對好一年半上一次是一年嘛一年800萬嘛上次只有10個月一年800萬嘛上次10個月10個月800萬就次長剛剛講的內容我不知道為什麼要花800萬來做啦真的不知道我打一個大問號請你具體提供這800萬他服務的項目"},{"start":560.04,"end":584,"text":"2.為什麼最有利標的得標廠商剛好就是跟謝長廷很有關係還是不當當場處理委員會的委員啊?我想這是大家個人的介紹裡面我們並不是因為這個理由啦不是那是什麼理由?當然你會講別的理由啊但是為什麼是最有利標然後剛好要他得標?有兩家投標公開評選這個是公開招標啦已經有兩家投標了目前還在公開那為什麼是最有利標嘛?"},{"start":586.783,"end":588.184,"text":"請你會後提供這一個所謂的800萬到底這個廠商做了哪些服務"},{"start":601.934,"end":621.35,"text":"因為就我的了解（包括電話接聽（對,就我的了解（這個所謂的八百萬的內容（分案這些（或者是什麼提供法律見解（不需要到八百萬（不需要到八百萬（然後得標廠商就是跟民進黨這麼好的人（這個外界都會提出質疑（而且今年你還增加預算（直接變成（因為時間變（對,那為什麼變長了（為什麼要拉長（那會不會就是同一家得標（"},{"start":626.4,"end":627.581,"text":"謝謝葉元之委員接下來我們請郭育晴委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:10:41.741000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:10:42.262000+08:00","text":"麻煩請文化部次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T10:10:42.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:10:43.464000+08:00","text":"文化部次長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:10:43.464000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:10:49.712000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:10:49.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:10:58.580000+08:00","text":"次長，最近因為張學友演唱會大家買不到票，引起非常大的民怨，所以黃牛票這個事情，大家應該要重視。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:10:58.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:08.528000+08:00","text":"但是我看了你們的報告，我覺得你們的報告寫得天花亂墜，跟實務執行有非常大的落差，所以我想問你一下，你到底瞭不瞭解現在執行上遇到的困難？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:08.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:12.411000+08:00","text":"第一、張學友演唱會，你知道他們總共賣幾萬張出去嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:12.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:12.571000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:17.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:17.161000+08:00","text":"你不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:18.422000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:20.824000+08:00","text":"張學友演唱會大家民怨成這樣，你們連這個細項都不知道！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:21.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:23.006000+08:00","text":"我知道我們已經收到122件的檢舉案，也正在就檢舉案在辦……","quality":0.565},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:23.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:25.748000+08:00","text":"我問他們賣幾萬張出去，你不要答非所問啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:26.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:36.757000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，他們總共9場演唱會分兩次賣，第一次賣前面6場，賣了大概5萬、6萬張，第二次賣後面3場，賣了3萬張，每1場都是秒殺，很多人上去準備要買就買不到了，我想問一下次長，你相信嗎？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:36.757000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:38.238000+08:00","text":"你相信每一個人都是單純自己要看，所以等在電腦前面，然後一開賣就買不到，你覺得有可能嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:38.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:39.019000+08:00","text":"這就是沒有採實名制很大的缺點……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:39.019000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:45.679333+08:00","text":"這跟實名制沒有關係啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:45.679333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:52.339667+08:00","text":"你不要把什麼事情都推給實名制，你有沒有瞭解原因在哪裡，為什麼會這樣？","quality":0.194},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:52.339667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:59+08:00","text":"因為有市場，因為有人想要看這個演唱會，造成需求面遠遠大於供給面……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:59+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:59.120000+08:00","text":"不是，錯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:11:59.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:11:59.821000+08:00","text":"主要就是有掃票機器人，很嚴重嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:12:00.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:12:00.923000+08:00","text":"這個掃票機器人在哪裡，你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:12:12.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:12:25.910000+08:00","text":"你們之前抓了一個竹科工程師，後來就大肆宣傳，好像什麼業績一樣，實際上，你去看那個竹科工程師，總共就是幾個人用他的那個程式去買而已，真正大尾的抓不到！","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:12:26.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:12:36.316000+08:00","text":"所以當時你們在發這個新聞的時候，下面網友罵翻了，都說真正的黃牛都抓不到，只會抓這個小的，所以背後到底什麼原因要去瞭解嘛！","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:12:37.057000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:12:59.890000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，實務上，我們也去問了警政機關，比如偵九隊，他們到了那些平臺要去查為什麼有人可以用程式一下子、幾秒鐘把所有的票全部掃完，結果警察到了平臺，平臺說為什麼要配合，除非找司法機關來搜索，否則不配合，實務上就面對到這樣的困難。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:00.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:10.678000+08:00","text":"我不知道你們知不知道這個事情，所以文化部現在要去找那些平臺問清楚，背後到底是誰可以這樣子？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:10.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:15.406000+08:00","text":"有沒有內部的人從中用這個事情在掃票？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:16.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:16.988000+08:00","text":"你們有沒有去瞭解？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:17.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:27.918000+08:00","text":"有，的確，這些平臺願不願意提供這些使用者的帳號、個資的確是一個關鍵，以現在來說，像FB與Dcard，大概就是最不願意提供的，他們也是我們面臨最大的問題……","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:27.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:29.079000+08:00","text":"那就是你要解決的問題嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:30.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:30.941000+08:00","text":"你不是跟我一樣……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:30.941000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:31.941000+08:00","text":"但是它沒有法律的強制效力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:30.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:31.321000+08:00","text":"我們現在是把問題跟你講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:33.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:39.027000+08:00","text":"次長剛剛一開始根本不瞭解狀況，還在跟我講因為沒有實名制，這跟有沒有實名制有什麼關係……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:39.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:39.988000+08:00","text":"這是嚴重度的原因啦！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:40.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:45.292000+08:00","text":"而且實名制你也沒有辦法推廣到全部人採用，我們現在就是要解決這個問題，因為是眼前的民怨嘛！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:45.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:13:57.941000+08:00","text":"所以第一個、請文化部去召集相關的機關，針對這些平臺，到底為什麼一開始掃票機器人可以把票全部掃完了，這個是最大的民怨，要去瞭解，這是第一件事情。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:13:58.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:09.593000+08:00","text":"第二件事情，我看到你們講，如果是加價轉售，基本上，你們就看一下檢舉人的要件有沒有符合，就直接轉給地方政府，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:09.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:10.794000+08:00","text":"因為查辦的單位是地方政府。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:10.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:11.735000+08:00","text":"是地方政府，對，很好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:12.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:12.996000+08:00","text":"文化部就推給地方政府……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:12.996000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:13.996000+08:00","text":"不是推，是因為……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:13.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:15.498000+08:00","text":"那你有沒有去瞭解一下地方政府執行的困難，有沒有？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:16.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:16.780000+08:00","text":"有，我們……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:16.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:17.600000+08:00","text":"困難在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:17.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:20.382000+08:00","text":"包括教育訓練，包括一般的溝通，都一直有在……","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:20.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:22.123000+08:00","text":"教育訓練就是官樣文章。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:22.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:26.686000+08:00","text":"我是問你，你有沒有實際去瞭解地方政府在執行這件事情所遇到的困難？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:26.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:28.228000+08:00","text":"有，地方政府的困難……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:28.228000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:29.228000+08:00","text":"地方政府的困難在哪？","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:28.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:30.149000+08:00","text":"關鍵仍然是取得當事人的關鍵個資。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:31.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:32.491000+08:00","text":"你就知道嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:33.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:43.560000+08:00","text":"因為文化部做的事情是最簡單的，你們做的是檢舉人只要有姓名、有資料或者是他有提供FB或LINE的對話，你就覺得完備了，就轉給地方政府……","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:43.560000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:44.560000+08:00","text":"就要下去展開調查。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:44.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:14:53.529000+08:00","text":"但是真正困難的是地方政府要去蒐集被檢舉人的資料，那我就問，各縣市政府的文化局有這個調查權嗎？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:14:54.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:01.904000+08:00","text":"收到這個檢舉案，它只能夠發文給FB或LINE或是發文給平臺，問有沒有相關資料可以提供？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:02.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:06.208000+08:00","text":"可是通常FB、LINE或者平臺根本不會理文化局嘛！","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:06.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:07.770000+08:00","text":"它沒有調查權嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:08.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:11.974000+08:00","text":"甚至於他們要去查金流，連金管會也不會理他們……","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:11.974000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:14.216000+08:00","text":"所以我們都有跟金管會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:14.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:27.806000+08:00","text":"警察局也不理他們，警察局說，個資的部分只有在12種樣態，比如違反生命安全等等樣態的時候才會提供，所以文化局在前端一開始要去查被檢舉人資料的時候就查不到。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:29.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:38.053000+08:00","text":"對於黃牛，你的報告寫得天花亂墜，說你們有兩千多件，其中600件怎樣、怎樣、怎樣，但具體的困難你們都沒有去協助解決……","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:38.053000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:39.053000+08:00","text":"有，所以我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:38.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:40.194000+08:00","text":"推給地方政府就OK了，文化部那麼好做喔？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:41.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:46.956000+08:00","text":"我們跟這些售票平臺、主辦單位，以及地方政府、警政署都是密切保持聯繫跟溝通。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:47.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:48.016000+08:00","text":"就是沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:48.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:49.037000+08:00","text":"你現在還要跟我辯這個。有。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:50.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:55.638000+08:00","text":"我現在告訴你的就是地方政府真實的狀況，很多個縣市政府我都去問了，不用在這邊粉飾太平……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:55.638000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:15:56.638000+08:00","text":"我想臺北跟高雄……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:15:56.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:05.020000+08:00","text":"你以為你在那邊開個教育訓練，好像長官一樣，過去跟他說你要這樣、你要這樣、你要這樣，他們忽然間就有調查權了嗎？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:05.020000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:06.020000+08:00","text":"不是，我們是把案件實際的狀況……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:05.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:08.121000+08:00","text":"現在實際上就是沒有調查權，所以資料取得不了，你要去幫忙解決這個問題嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:09.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:16.783000+08:00","text":"的確文化單位因為不是警政執法單位、不是司法單位，所以在調查權上是沒有，不管是文化部或文化局都是沒有調查權。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:16.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:18.003000+08:00","text":"所以擺爛嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:18.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:19.904000+08:00","text":"不是，所以我們要透過其他的方式，譬如說……","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:20.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:21.445000+08:00","text":"那你透過什麼方式？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:21.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:26.086000+08:00","text":"關鍵就是取得票號跟票券的位置，我們就可以透過售票平臺來取得。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:26.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:33.849000+08:00","text":"請問一下，我現在講的就是取得不了，我們現在把實務的困難告訴你，你一直告訴我關鍵是要取得，但現在就是取得不了嘛！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:34.049000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:34.590000+08:00","text":"就是售票平臺應該可以……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:34.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:35.590000+08:00","text":"不好意思，文化部，你們是要去解決問題，你要解決問題，你不是跟我們民意代表一樣，在那邊討論這個東西，你要去解決問題，你有公權力……","quality":0.291},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:35.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:36.590000+08:00","text":"是，我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:36.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:37.590000+08:00","text":"你是文化部，你不是一般的民眾，只會把問題點出來，這個怎樣、這個怎樣、這個怎樣，不是！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:37.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:38.590000+08:00","text":"你要去解決問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:38.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:39.590000+08:00","text":"我們會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:39.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:40.590000+08:00","text":"我現在問你是你有沒有去解決問題？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:38.071000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:38.191000+08:00","text":"有，我們會繼續努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:38.191000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:43.177000+08:00","text":"真的做得不好啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:43.177000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:48.163000+08:00","text":"再來，連檢舉獎金都要地方政府編，對吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:48.163000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:53.149000+08:00","text":"113年開始是由地方政府編列。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:53.149000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:16:58.135000+08:00","text":"然後也沒有讓地方政府增加人嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:16:58.135000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:17:03.121000+08:00","text":"所以他們現在是既有人力在擴編處理這個事嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:17:03.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:17:32.808000+08:00","text":"再來，問你一個問題，有一個標案我覺得非常奇怪，112年有一個黃牛檢舉及法律質詢專案辦公室的標案，一年的金額是800萬，今年跟明年編列1,500萬，請問一下這個標案是要做什麼內容？","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:17:35.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:17:45.595000+08:00","text":"就是現在我們針對黃牛案件的巡查、分案、案件的分析、樣態的分析，還有法律意見的提供這個功能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:17:45.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:17:46.716000+08:00","text":"這需要1,500萬喔？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:17:46.716000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:17:48.578000+08:00","text":"Total有18個月……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:17:48.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:17:58.363000+08:00","text":"分案我剛才已經講了，你的分案只是把有檢舉人的資料或者是他有提供FB、LINE的對話，你就轉給地方政府了，這個需要1,500萬去做？","quality":0.732},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:17:58.363000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:01.117167+08:00","text":"還是要逐項檢視，這還是需要很大的人力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:01.117167+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:03.871333+08:00","text":"我問過地方政府，他說，通常你們就是這樣分過來了啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:03.871333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:06.625500+08:00","text":"沒有，我們是逐項檢視，因為……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:06.625500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:09.379667+08:00","text":"逐項檢視需要那麼多錢喔？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:09.379667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:12.133833+08:00","text":"我們提供……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:12.133833+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:14.888000+08:00","text":"地方政府都沒有另外編預算，為什麼文化部要另外編？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:14.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:21.972000+08:00","text":"整個分案跟巡查跟基礎資料調查有沒有完備是由文化部來做。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:22.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:25.854000+08:00","text":"對，但是第一個，案件不多，第二個，處理的事情也不多……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:25.854000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:26.854000+08:00","text":"沒有，兩千多件案件都是從文化部……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:26.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:30.237000+08:00","text":"為什麼要800萬，還要1,500萬？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:30.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:33.959000+08:00","text":"這個非常奇怪，還是用最有利標，為什麼？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:36.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:38.239000+08:00","text":"為什麼是用最有利標？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:38.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:43.346000+08:00","text":"因為這個案子的型態很重要的是法律的背景，所以我們希望是法律……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:43.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:46.430000+08:00","text":"所以只有特定律師可以做，其他律師不能做，對不對？","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:46.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:47.050000+08:00","text":"所以要用最有利標？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:47.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:47.371000+08:00","text":"不是特定律師，應該是說有經驗、知道、參與提供法律……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:47.371000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:49.293500+08:00","text":"有經驗，那怎樣有經驗由文化部來決定嘛！","quality":0.176},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:49.293500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:18:51.216000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下上次得標的廠商是誰，這個叫做長慧律師事務所，這個律師事務所在說明的地方直接講，因為袁律師大學時代參加謝長廷律師的新文化研習營等等，我很少看到律師事務所介紹自己跟謝長廷的關係。","quality":0.011},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:18:51.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:28.507000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下這個得標廠商的主要經歷，臺北市法務局長、不當黨產處理委員會的委員，所以這樣的案子，第一個，我聽不出來它需要1,500萬來做，第二個……","quality":0.623},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:29.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:30.228000+08:00","text":"它是18個月，一年半。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:30.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:33.170000+08:00","text":"一年半，好一年半，上一次是一年嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:33.170000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:34.170000+08:00","text":"而且有9位人員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:33.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:33.370000+08:00","text":"一年800萬嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:33.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:34.311000+08:00","text":"上次只有10個月。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:34.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:37.072000+08:00","text":"10個月、800萬，就次長剛剛講的內容，我不知道為什麼要花800萬來做，真的不知道，我打一個大問號，請你具體提供這800萬所服務的項目。好。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:49.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:55.245000+08:00","text":"第二個，為什麼最有利標的得標廠商剛好就跟謝長廷很有關係，還是不當黨產處理委員會的委員啊？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:55.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:19:58.348000+08:00","text":"我想這是在他個人的介紹裡面，我們並不是因為這個理由啦！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:19:58.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:00.229000+08:00","text":"不是，那是什麼理由？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:00.229000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:01.229000+08:00","text":"主要還是因為專業……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:00.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:01.370000+08:00","text":"當然你會講別的理由啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:01.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:05.654000+08:00","text":"但是為什麼是最有利標，然後剛好又是他得標？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:05.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:08.376000+08:00","text":"有兩家投標，公開評選，這個是公開招標啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:08.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:11.979000+08:00","text":"，已經有兩家投標了，目前還在公開……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:11.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:12.980000+08:00","text":"那為什麼是最有利標嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:12.980000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:15.783000+08:00","text":"用最有利標的原因是因為它有特殊條件，就是有法律背景，這只是最有利標設定的條件而已，但是還是會公開徵選……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:15.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:17.184000+08:00","text":"請你會後提供這一個所謂的800萬，到底這個廠商做哪些服務？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:17.184000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:30.934000+08:00","text":"包括電話……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:30.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:49.390000+08:00","text":"因為就我的瞭解，分案或是什麼提供法律見解這些內容，不需要到800萬，然後得標廠商又是跟民進黨這麼好的人，外界都會提出質疑，而且今年你還增加預算，直接變成……","quality":0.91},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:49.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:49.670000+08:00","text":"因為服務時間變長了。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:49.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:49.750000+08:00","text":"對，那為什麼變長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:49.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:49.830000+08:00","text":"為什麼拉長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:49.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:50.350000+08:00","text":"那會不會又是同一家得標？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:50.350000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:51.612500+08:00","text":"你是不是減少他得標的成本，讓他一次標到可以做比較久？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王次長時思","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:51.612500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:52.875000+08:00","text":"還在公開招標當中。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:52.875000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:54.137500+08:00","text":"沒關係，我們最後來看是誰得標嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:54.137500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:55.400000+08:00","text":"文化部今天報告講一大堆，但是實務面執行問題這麼多，你們要去解決問題，不是在跟我分析問題，要解決問題，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:55.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:55.700000+08:00","text":"謝謝葉元之委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T10:20:55.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:20:56.581000+08:00","text":"接下來請郭昱晴委員。","quality":0.889}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}