{"error":false,"id":["151852"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151852,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151852","日期":"2024-04-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-35-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[35],"委員會代碼:str":["外交及國防委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-29T10:52:23+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-29T11:03:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:00","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e90f54132b1096e69faa896012ee6318656dd8af69baafbe34e2527b10508eeea79a67e68724f7055ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"徐巧芯","委員發言時間":"10:52:23 - 11:03:23","會議時間":"2024-04-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告「退輔會服務照顧及相關救補助精進作為」，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":442,"blocks":[["徐委員巧芯：（10時52分）謝謝主席，請馮主委。"],["主席：請馮主委。"],["馮主任委員世寬：委員早安。"],["徐委員巧芯：主委早安。抱歉！我有點重感冒，所以跟你的互動上，我的反應可能會比較慢一些，感冒藥吃太多。首先，我非常感謝你在這段期間為中華民國的努力，如果要我來評價所有民進黨政府的官員裡面，我最敬佩的一位就是你。"],["馮主任委員世寬：是，不敢當。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為不管有什麼樣的政治壓力，你總是能夠言你所言，這在政府裡面當官並不是一件容易的事情，尤其我們有很多委員，不分藍綠，提出退輔會應該要檢討的地方，你也都很率直的馬上去辦，我也希望下一任接任退輔會主委的人能夠效法你的精神，讓我們的榮民、榮眷感受到真的受到照顧。"],["馮主任委員世寬：是。"],["徐委員巧芯：首先，我想要請問一下，最近陳建仁院長做了一個指示，他說要在一個月內在軍中研議所謂的轉型正義小組，這個轉型正義小組雖然是在軍中，但是退輔會裡面也有多多少少擺放一些蔣公銅像、蔣公畫像或是蔣公紀念品，這對於軍眷、榮眷來說也有相當的象徵意義，如果未來的轉型正義小組要求退輔會要一併全部拆除的話，請問馮主委，對於這樣子的立場，你持什麼樣的態度呢？"],["馮主任委員世寬：我堅決反對。"],["徐委員巧芯：可以向我們說一下堅決反對的理由嗎？我想社會大眾一定希望知道為什麼我們有這麼多人都反對這樣子的事情。"],["馮主任委員世寬：假如沒有蔣公把黃金、人才跟部隊帶到臺灣來，今天臺灣不會有安定的發展。再講一句，蔣公帶到臺灣來的部隊不是竄逃，而是有計畫性的到這裡來，將臺灣成為復興基地，雖然反攻大陸並沒有執行成功，但是卻把臺灣建設成世界的……譬如說我們現在有護國神山，我們有醫院變成護民的神盾等等這些都是蔣公帶給我們的。假如這一些事實只是看到他在所謂白色恐怖中間抓到許多匪諜加以處置，就認為這是一種殘害，我覺得這是不公平、不正義的，也不是全民所能夠接受的。"],["徐委員巧芯：謝謝主委，您剛剛講的話讓我非常的感動，因為我的外公也是湖南的老兵，當時1949年跟著中華民國政府軍一起來到臺灣，在八二三炮戰的時候，他也跟著我們的國軍弟兄一起到戰場上，跟他的弟弟兩個人為了臺灣、為了中華民國作戰，最後只生存下一個人，就是我的外公。所以我會覺得這一些退伍的老兵、我們的榮民、榮眷，或許我們現在生活在一個民主國家，我們雖然有兩岸軍事的恫嚇，但是至少都還是在一個和平的範圍裡面，沒有人因為戰爭死去，沒有人因為戰爭的關係造成家破人亡。我的外公雖然他活下來了，但他一輩子都想著他當初沒有保護好弟弟，所以他最後抑鬱而死，這某種程度也造成了我們家庭的傷害。我的爺爺很早很早在我強褓嬰兒的時候，他就離開人世了，因為不堪戰爭後續所帶來的痛苦，所以我們才一直希望兩岸之間，我們要備戰，可是我們也要避戰……"],["馮主任委員世寬：是的。"],["徐委員巧芯：因為不希望像我這樣子的家庭所發生的事情，再發生在其他的家庭上面。"],["馮主任委員世寬：是的。"],["徐委員巧芯：我們希望大家的家庭一輩子以來不需要受到戰火的侵襲，就能夠快快樂樂、平平安安的度過這一生。"],["馮主任委員世寬：謝謝委員。"],["徐委員巧芯：而蔣公他在1949年當時帶領了這麼多的人到了臺灣來，或許有一些族群的衝突，但是隔了這麼多年，我們也看到了族群之間慢慢的融合，很多人是外省的第二代、第三代，也已經沒有再區分了，像以我今年34歲，我的外公是外省湖南常德人，是一名軍人，我的外婆是菸酒公賣局的公務人員，是一名本省人，我爸爸的家族都是客家人，在臺灣年輕一代像這樣子的家庭非常的多，早就已經沒有再區分族群了。"],["馮主任委員世寬：是的。"],["徐委員巧芯：所以我也希望未來馮主委，我很感佩你對於蔣公在現在這個好像政府都要把轉型正義當成是第一要務的同時，你願意把自己的主張大聲地講出來，我也希望如果有下一任的退輔會主委，他也能夠像你一樣做這麼清楚的表述，因為對於這些榮民跟榮眷來說，這是對他們的生活、對他們的信仰非常非常重要的一塊，希望主委是不是在您到時候人選接替的時候，也能夠將這樣子的主張向下一任的主委傳遞下去？"],["馮主任委員世寬：是的，我會的。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝。另外，我想跟您討論一下單身退員宿舍的部分，最近在臺北市信義區，總共有243位的退員遺孀，其中有67人正被國防部聲請民事訴訟排占中，雖然是單身退舍，但時空背景不同，過去的執法比較鬆散，所以後續雖然是單身退舍，但是卻有不少的遺孀住在裡面，能夠遷移的，我們作為民代也很積極的協助，但是權責上土地是軍備局、退舍是政戰局、退員是屬於退輔會、遺孀則是由臺北市社會局在協助，我不曉得未來退輔會有沒有可能一起幫忙？因為現在的情況就是這些遺孀不願意搬遷，不願意搬遷的結果，他們會受到很多的法律上的要求，甚至他未來要返還一些價金，如果退輔會未來也可以針對這一些所謂的舊的單身退舍中沒有移出的人一起幫忙的話，是不是就可以讓國防部在這件事情的處理速度上有所提升，這一點是很希望退輔會可以一起加入幫忙。"],["馮主任委員世寬：是的，我覺得我們已經在處理這些事情了。"],["曹處長東發：委員好，我是服務照顧處處長，針對退舍的這些遺眷，我們有很積極的在協助他們轉介到我們相關的一些社福機構，但是因為他們都不願搬走，最主要就是說他住在那邊不要錢，連水電都不用付，所以他搬到外面去，他就必須要去面對生活上的一些支出。"],["徐委員巧芯：是。"],["曹處長東發：我們也跟臺北市政府一些相關的社福資源在做鏈接，勸他們一定要搬走，不然的話，會面對法律上的一些問題，我們積極在做。"],["徐委員巧芯：可是就我們知道，每個地方可能不一樣，像在我的選區裡面，大我新舍已經裝設了水電表了，所以他們的水電是要付錢的，不是像您所說的不用付錢。"],["曹處長東發：那是有部分。"],["徐委員巧芯：對，我講的就是大我新舍，因為像這裡，我收到的全部都是來自遺孀的陳情函，當年可能因為這是單身退舍，他們確實有不對的地方，但因為當時執法鬆散，所以那時候他們已經一起住了，可是因為他的先生比他早離開，就要把他們都趕走，他們對於這件事情就覺得很不公平，就是當我先生還在的時候，我們國防部所頒的法令是，好啦，雖然是單身退舍，但是既然你是軍人，就讓你們一起住，等到她的先生一旦死亡以後，就趕著把這些遺孀都趕走，這是讓他們覺得很不舒服的。我今天時間不太夠，希望退輔會這邊可以再來跟我們看看要怎麼樣一起協助這些遺孀，讓他們在一個平和的、能夠受到幫助的方式下找到屬於自己的家，也能夠讓我們國防部應該要執行的業務能夠完成，可以嗎？"],["馮主任委員世寬：可以。"],["徐委員巧芯：好，謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝徐委員，我們現在休息10分鐘。","休息（11時3分）","繼續開會（11時13分）"],["主席：繼續開會。","現在處理臨時提案，請議事人員宣讀臨時提案。","依據「全國軍公教員工待遇支給要點」及行政院人事行政總處2017年7月3日總處給字第10600502952號函規定退伍軍職人員子女教育補助費發給對象，目前僅補助退除役軍官領俸子女教補費發放對象仍維持中校（含士官）以下，私立大學每學年7萬1,600元；公立大學每學年2萬7,200元。","另行政院於2023年底通過教育部「拉近公私立學校學雜費差距及其配套措施方案」，自2024年2月新學期開始後補助私立大專院校生學費每學年3萬5千元；公立大學則視家庭所得狀況而定，最高每學年2萬元、最低每學年1萬5千元。上述輔導會與教育部的方案，只能擇優其一方案請領補助。","鑒於政府補助公私立大學學費之德政，退伍軍人學費補助與政府補助公私立大學學費間差距大幅減少，在行政院整體預算支出不增加的情形下，建請輔導會有關上校階以上領俸人員子女教補費之事，應積極研議並爭取，以促進退伍袍澤權益。","提案人：王定宇　　羅美玲　　陳冠廷　　沈伯洋　　洪申翰　　林楚茵　　馬文君　　黃　仁　　徐巧芯　　林憶君"],["主席：請問提案委員需不需要說明？退輔會對於提案內容有沒有意見？"],["馮主任委員世寬：沒有意見。"],["主席：其實很欣慰看到王定宇召委提這個案子，因為這個案子在108年、109年、110年國民黨黨團其實也都陸續有提案，也都有通過，可是一直都還沒有辦法落實執行，所以我們也希望這部分在這一次大家都有共識的情況之下，尤其教育部也編列了一些相關的補助，可以儘早通過，推動執行，我相信這樣袍澤會更有感，所以這個部分，我們希望大家可以力促讓它趕快通過。"],["王委員定宇：主席……"],["主席：請王定宇委員。"],["王委員定宇：主席，我就說明一下，第一個時空背景的不同，來自於行政院宣布要補助私立大學每學年三萬五千元，另外公立大學兩萬多，在這個基礎下，我們來計算那個差額，它的差距就縮小了，因為這個新的變數，所以我們期待今天這個提案通過之後，馮主委可以和我們一起來跟人事總處溝通協調，就是當國家把私立大學的學費補助拉高了，把公立大學的補助也拉高了，那原來對於退伍軍人上校以上職級的補助，距離就沒有那麼遠，在這種狀況下，我們應該可以把它納入，在總體預算增加不多的狀況下，就是有一個背景，跟前兩年的差異在這裡。我們也很高興這一次提案本委員會所有委員大概都連署了，我們可以一起努力來把這個案子落實下來。"],["主席：這個案子當然有背景的不同，不過對於袍澤的照顧，我相信不是預算的多寡，而是他應不應該被照顧，如果是這樣的情況之下，我們也希望這個可以趕快通過，因為在過去跟現在他們對國家的付出是一致的。就這個部分，如果退輔會還有所有委員沒有異議，本提案照案通過，謝謝。","接下來繼續詢答，請吳思瑤委員、吳思瑤、吳思瑤委員不在。","請楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","請蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","請鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","請羅智強、羅智強、羅智強委員不在。","請邱志偉委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":308,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-35-15","speakers":["馬文君","羅美玲","王定宇","黃仁","陳永康","林楚茵","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","洪申翰","徐巧芯","邱志偉","林憶君","賴士葆","羅智強"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2024-04-29"],"gazette_id":"1133501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133501_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期外交及國防委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員馮世寬報告「退輔會服務照顧及相關救補助精進作\n為」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1133501_00015"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"徐委員巧芯","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002,"speaker_score":0.851},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"徐委員巧芯","start":1.11096875,"end":2.32596875,"speaker_score":0.851},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"徐委員巧芯","start":2.967218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裡面那能夠遷移的我們也作為民代很積極的協助但是呢"},{"start":479.488,"end":506.391,"text":"全責上土地是軍備局退社是政戰局退員是屬於退輔會遺孀則是由臺北市社會局在協助那我不曉得未來退輔會有沒有可能一起幫忙因為現在的情況就是這些遺孀他不願意搬遷不願意搬遷的結果他們會受到很多的一些法律上面甚至他未來要返還他的這個"},{"start":508.012,"end":509.913,"text":"是的,我覺得我們已經在處理這些事情了"},{"start":534.902,"end":554.284,"text":"委員好我是服務照顧處處長那麼針對我們退社的這些遺卷我們有很積極的在協助他們要轉介到我們相關的一些社福的一些機構但是因為他們都不願搬走最主要就是說他住在那邊他不要錢他連水電都不用付"},{"start":555.064,"end":580.769,"text":"所以說他搬到外面去他就必須要去面對他生活上的一些支出我們也跟台北市政府的一些相關的社福資源在做鏈接勸他們一定要搬走不然的話會面對這個法律上的一些問題每個地方可能不一樣像在我的選區裡面大我新社已經裝設了水電表了所以他們的水電是要付錢的"},{"start":581.229,"end":609.199,"text":"不是像您所說的那個是有部分對對對我講的就是在大我新社因為像這裡我收到的這個全部都是來自遺孀的陳秦涵我們不希望就是說他當年可能這是單身退社他們確實有不對的地方但因為當時的執法鬆散所以那時候他們已經一起住了可是因為他的先生比他早離開之後就要把他們都趕走了"},{"start":609.719,"end":635.012,"text":"他們對於這件事情就覺得很不公平就是說當我先生還在的時候我們國防部所頒的法令是好啦雖然是單身退社但是既然你是軍人就讓你們一起住但等到他的先生軍人一旦死亡以後就趕著把這一線遺裝都趕走這個是讓他們覺得很不舒服的那我今天時間不太夠"},{"start":635.812,"end":656.877,"text":"那是不是希望後續退輔會這邊可以再來跟我們看看我們要怎麼樣一起協助這些遺孀讓他們在一個平和的能夠受到幫助的方式上面找到他們屬於自己的家也能夠讓我們國防部應該要執行的業務能夠完成可以嗎可以好謝謝主委是好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:52:23.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:52:23.470000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請馮主委。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T10:52:23.470000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:52:37+08:00","text":"請馮主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T10:52:37+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:52:50.530000+08:00","text":"委員早安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:52:50.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:52:51.410000+08:00","text":"主委早安。抱歉！","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:52:51.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:52:58.853000+08:00","text":"我有點重感冒，所以跟你的互動上，我的反應可能會比較慢一些，感冒藥吃太多。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:53:00.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:53:15.898000+08:00","text":"首先，我非常感謝你在這段期間為中華民國的努力，如果要我來評價所有民進黨政府的官員裡面，我最敬佩的一位就是你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T10:53:15.898000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:53:17.759000+08:00","text":"是，不敢當。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:53:17.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:53:53.514000+08:00","text":"因為不管有什麼樣的政治壓力，你總是能夠言你所言，這在政府裡面當官並不是一件容易的事情，尤其我們有很多委員，不分藍綠，提出退輔會應該要檢討的地方，你也都很率直的馬上去辦，我也希望下一任接任退輔會主委的人能夠效法你的精神，讓我們的榮民、榮眷感受到真的受到照顧。是。","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:53:53.514000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:54:26.968000+08:00","text":"首先，我想要請問一下，最近陳建仁院長做了一個指示，他說要在一個月內在軍中研議所謂的轉型正義小組，這個轉型正義小組雖然是在軍中，但是退輔會裡面也有多多少少擺放一些蔣公銅像、蔣公畫像或是蔣公紀念品，這對於軍眷、榮眷來說也有相當的象徵意義，如果未來的轉型正義小組要求退輔會要一併全部拆除的話，請問馮主委，對於這樣子的立場，你持什麼樣的態度呢？","quality":0.271},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T10:54:26.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:54:27.068000+08:00","text":"我堅決反對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:54:27.068000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:54:39.425500+08:00","text":"可以向我們說一下堅決反對的理由嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:54:39.425500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:54:51.783000+08:00","text":"我想社會大眾一定希望知道為什麼我們有這麼多人都反對這樣子的事情。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T10:54:51.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:54:53.224000+08:00","text":"假如沒有蔣公把黃金、人才跟部隊帶到臺灣來，今天臺灣不會有安定的發展。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T10:54:53.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:55:47.675000+08:00","text":"再講一句，蔣公帶到臺灣來的部隊不是竄逃，而是有計畫性的到這裡來，將臺灣成為復興基地，雖然反攻大陸並沒有執行成功，但是卻把臺灣建設成世界的……譬如說我們現在有護國神山，我們有醫院變成護民的神盾等等這些都是蔣公帶給我們的。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T10:55:48.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:56:08.170000+08:00","text":"假如這一些事實只是看到他在所謂白色恐怖中間抓到許多匪諜加以處置，就認為這是一種殘害，我覺得這是不公平、不正義的，也不是全民所能夠接受的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:56:10.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:56:42.829000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委，您剛剛講的話讓我非常的感動，因為我的外公也是湖南的老兵，當時1949年跟著中華民國政府軍一起來到臺灣，在八二三炮戰的時候，他也跟著我們的國軍弟兄一起到戰場上，跟他的弟弟兩個人為了臺灣、為了中華民國作戰，最後只生存下一個人，就是我的外公。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:56:43.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:57:05.882000+08:00","text":"所以我會覺得這一些退伍的老兵、我們的榮民、榮眷，或許我們現在生活在一個民主國家，我們雖然有兩岸軍事的恫嚇，但是至少都還是在一個和平的範圍裡面，沒有人因為戰爭死去，沒有人因為戰爭的關係造成家破人亡。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:57:06.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:57:20.408000+08:00","text":"我的外公雖然他活下來了，但他一輩子都想著他當初沒有保護好弟弟，所以他最後抑鬱而死，這某種程度也造成了我們家庭的傷害。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:57:21.148000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:57:29.752000+08:00","text":"我的爺爺很早很早在我強褓嬰兒的時候，他就離開人世了，因為不堪戰爭後續所帶來的痛苦，所以我們才一直希望兩岸之間，我們要備戰，可是我們也要避戰……是的。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:57:29.752000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:57:30.752000+08:00","text":"因為不希望像我這樣子的家庭所發生的事情，再發生在其他的家庭上面。是的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:57:30.752000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T10:57:31.752000+08:00","text":"我們希望大家的家庭一輩子以來不需要受到戰火的侵襲，就能夠快快樂樂、平平安安的度過這一生。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T10:57:30.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:57:30.532000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:57:56.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:58:38.831000+08:00","text":"而蔣公他在1949年當時帶領了這麼多的人到了臺灣來，或許有一些族群的衝突，但是隔了這麼多年，我們也看到了族群之間慢慢的融合，很多人是外省的第二代、第三代，也已經沒有再區分了，像以我今年34歲，我的外公是外省湖南常德人，是一名軍人，我的外婆是菸酒公賣局的公務人員，是一名本省人，我爸爸的家族都是客家人，在臺灣年輕一代像這樣子的家庭非常的多，早就已經沒有再區分族群了。是的。","quality":0.724},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:58:59.007000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:59:22.105000+08:00","text":"所以我也希望未來馮主委，我很感佩你對於蔣公在現在這個好像政府都要把轉型正義當成是第一要務的同時，你願意把自己的主張大聲地講出來，我也希望如果有下一任的退輔會主委，他也能夠像你一樣做這麼清楚的表述，因為對於這些榮民跟榮眷來說，這是對他們的生活、對他們的信仰非常非常重要的一塊，希望主委是不是在您到時候人選接替的時候，也能夠將這樣子的主張向下一任的主委傳遞下去？","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T10:59:41.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:59:42.137000+08:00","text":"是的，我會的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:59:42.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T10:59:43.838000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T10:59:44.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:00:35.919000+08:00","text":"另外，我想跟您討論一下單身退員宿舍的部分，最近在臺北市信義區，總共有243位的退員遺孀，其中有67人正被國防部聲請民事訴訟排占中，雖然是單身退舍，但時空背景不同，過去的執法比較鬆散，所以後續雖然是單身退舍，但是卻有不少的遺孀住在裡面，能夠遷移的，我們作為民代也很積極的協助，但是權責上土地是軍備局、退舍是政戰局、退員是屬於退輔會、遺孀則是由臺北市社會局在協助，我不曉得未來退輔會有沒有可能一起幫忙？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T11:00:36.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:00:49.391000+08:00","text":"因為現在的情況就是這些遺孀不願意搬遷，不願意搬遷的結果，他們會受到很多的法律上的要求，甚至他未來要返還一些價金，如果退輔會未來也可以針對這一些所謂的舊的單身退舍中沒有移出的人一起幫忙的話，是不是就可以讓國防部在這件事情的處理速度上有所提升，這一點是很希望退輔會可以一起加入幫忙。","quality":0.356},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T11:00:51.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:00:52.893000+08:00","text":"是的，我覺得我們已經在處理這些事情了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曹處長東發","start":"2024-04-29T11:01:17.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:01:42.065000+08:00","text":"委員好，我是服務照顧處處長，針對退舍的這些遺眷，我們有很積極的在協助他們轉介到我們相關的一些社福機構，但是因為他們都不願搬走，最主要就是說他住在那邊不要錢，連水電都不用付，所以他搬到外面去，他就必須要去面對生活上的一些支出。是。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"曹處長東發","start":"2024-04-29T11:01:42.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:01:55.107000+08:00","text":"我們也跟臺北市政府一些相關的社福資源在做鏈接，勸他們一定要搬走，不然的話，會面對法律上的一些問題，我們積極在做。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T11:01:55.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:02:05.409000+08:00","text":"可是就我們知道，每個地方可能不一樣，像在我的選區裡面，大我新舍已經裝設了水電表了，所以他們的水電是要付錢的，不是像您所說的不用付錢。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"曹處長東發","start":"2024-04-29T11:02:06.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:02:07.210000+08:00","text":"那是有部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T11:02:08.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:02:56.371000+08:00","text":"對，我講的就是大我新舍，因為像這裡，我收到的全部都是來自遺孀的陳情函，當年可能因為這是單身退舍，他們確實有不對的地方，但因為當時執法鬆散，所以那時候他們已經一起住了，可是因為他的先生比他早離開，就要把他們都趕走，他們對於這件事情就覺得很不公平，就是當我先生還在的時候，我們國防部所頒的法令是，好啦，雖然是單身退舍，但是既然你是軍人，就讓你們一起住，等到她的先生一旦死亡以後，就趕著把這些遺孀都趕走，這是讓他們覺得很不舒服的。","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T11:02:57.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:03:18.657000+08:00","text":"我今天時間不太夠，希望退輔會這邊可以再來跟我們看看要怎麼樣一起協助這些遺孀，讓他們在一個平和的、能夠受到幫助的方式下找到屬於自己的家，也能夠讓我們國防部應該要執行的業務能夠完成，可以嗎？可以。","quality":0.989},{"speaker":"徐委員巧芯","start":"2024-04-29T11:03:18.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-04-29T11:03:19.357000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:03:19.857000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:03:23.571286+08:00","text":"謝謝徐委員，我們現在休息10分鐘。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:03:23.871286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:03:25.014143+08:00","text":"休息（11時3分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:03:25.314143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:03:27.028429+08:00","text":"繼續開會（11時13分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:03:27.328429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:03:28.471286+08:00","text":"繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:03:28.771286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:03:34.199857+08:00","text":"現在處理臨時提案，請議事人員宣讀臨時提案。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:03:34.499857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:04:04.499857+08:00","text":"依據「全國軍公教員工待遇支給要點」及行政院人事行政總處2017年7月3日總處給字第10600502952號函規定退伍軍職人員子女教育補助費發給對象，目前僅補助退除役軍官領俸子女教補費發放對象仍維持中校（含士官）以下，私立大學每學年7萬1,600元；公立大學每學年2萬7,200元。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:04:04.799857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:04:29.657000+08:00","text":"另行政院於2023年底通過教育部「拉近公私立學校學雜費差距及其配套措施方案」，自2024年2月新學期開始後補助私立大專院校生學費每學年3萬5千元；公立大學則視家庭所得狀況而定，最高每學年2萬元、最低每學年1萬5千元。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:04:29.957000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:04:36.814143+08:00","text":"上述輔導會與教育部的方案，只能擇優其一方案請領補助。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:04:37.114143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:05:05.685571+08:00","text":"鑒於政府補助公私立大學學費之德政，退伍軍人學費補助與政府補助公私立大學學費間差距大幅減少，在行政院整體預算支出不增加的情形下，建請輔導會有關上校階以上領俸人員子女教補費之事，應積極研議並爭取，以促進退伍袍澤權益。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:05:05.985571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:05:14.271286+08:00","text":"王定宇　　羅美玲　　陳冠廷　　沈伯洋　　洪申翰　　林楚茵　　馬文君　　黃　仁　　徐巧芯　　林憶君","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:05:14.571286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:05:17.999857+08:00","text":"請問提案委員需不需要說明？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:05:18.299857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:05:22.299857+08:00","text":"退輔會對於提案內容有沒有意見？","quality":0},{"speaker":"馮主任委員世寬","start":"2024-04-29T11:05:22.599857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:05:23.742714+08:00","text":"沒有意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:05:24.042714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:06:05.757000+08:00","text":"其實很欣慰看到王定宇召委提這個案子，因為這個案子在108年、109年、110年國民黨黨團其實也都陸續有提案，也都有通過，可是一直都還沒有辦法落實執行，所以我們也希望這部分在這一次大家都有共識的情況之下，尤其教育部也編列了一些相關的補助，可以儘早通過，推動執行，我相信這樣袍澤會更有感，所以這個部分，我們希望大家可以力促讓它趕快通過。主席……","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:06:06.057000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:06:07.771286+08:00","text":"請王定宇委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2024-04-29T11:06:08.071286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:07:10.642714+08:00","text":"主席，我就說明一下，第一個時空背景的不同，來自於行政院宣布要補助私立大學每學年三萬五千元，另外公立大學兩萬多，在這個基礎下，我們來計算那個差額，它的差距就縮小了，因為這個新的變數，所以我們期待今天這個提案通過之後，馮主委可以和我們一起來跟人事總處溝通協調，就是當國家把私立大學的學費補助拉高了，把公立大學的補助也拉高了，那原來對於退伍軍人上校以上職級的補助，距離就沒有那麼遠，在這種狀況下，我們應該可以把它納入，在總體預算增加不多的狀況下，就是有一個背景，跟前兩年的差異在這裡。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員定宇","start":"2024-04-29T11:07:10.942714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:07:23.228429+08:00","text":"我們也很高興這一次提案本委員會所有委員大概都連署了，我們可以一起努力來把這個案子落實下來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:07:23.528429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:07:47.528429+08:00","text":"這個案子當然有背景的不同，不過對於袍澤的照顧，我相信不是預算的多寡，而是他應不應該被照顧，如果是這樣的情況之下，我們也希望這個可以趕快通過，因為在過去跟現在他們對國家的付出是一致的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:07:47.828429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:07:56.114143+08:00","text":"就這個部分，如果退輔會還有所有委員沒有異議，本提案照案通過，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:07:56.414143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:08:02.985571+08:00","text":"接下來繼續詢答，請吳思瑤委員、吳思瑤、吳思瑤委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:08:03.285571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:08:07.285571+08:00","text":"請楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:08:07.585571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:08:11.585571+08:00","text":"請蘇清泉、蘇清泉、蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:08:11.885571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:08:15.885571+08:00","text":"請鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐、鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:08:16.185571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:08:20.185571+08:00","text":"請羅智強、羅智強、羅智強委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-04-29T11:08:20.485571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-04-29T11:08:23.342714+08:00","text":"請邱志偉委員上台質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}