{"error":false,"id":["152739"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152739,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152739","日期":"2024-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-22T09:21:56+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-22T09:29:59+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:03","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ec526bb9f1bdce9d120b1fe503d50d05c1abb13d390ebf8b3b43bbf2d64d2017e27a470d39c62d065ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蘇巧慧","委員發言時間":"09:21:56 - 09:29:59","會議時間":"2024-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"(變更議程)立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查委員吳琪銘等17人擬具「不動產估價師法部分條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「土地法第七十三條之一條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員林岱樺等17人擬具「土地法第十四條條文修正草案」案。【第三案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【5月22日、23日 二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":171,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時22分）謝謝主席，我們請董次長。"],["主席：好，請董次長。"],["蘇委員巧慧：次長好。"],["董次長建宏：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：次長，今天您第一次備詢，但我想問你的第一個問題是，次長，今天為什麼是由您出席？部長呢？部長有請假嗎？"],["董次長建宏：有，部長有請假。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長跟誰請假？"],["董次長建宏：部長跟委員會請假。"],["蘇委員巧慧：跟委員會請假，那誰同意了？誰同意了？"],["主席：我同意的。"],["蘇委員巧慧：召委同意就等於是委員會同意嗎？部長，對啊，委員會跟召委，如果根據昨天國民黨和民眾黨共提的修正動議版本，上面是寫委員會同意，沒說召委同意就算喔！對啊，這個還沒有確定喔！我不知道這範圍是多少。再來次長我問你的第二個問題，主席，不為難你啦！你昨天也是站我們這邊的啦，對啦！來，次長，我再問你，次長，今天我們要討論的主題是什麼？我們要討論的主題，今天的質詢主題是要討論不動產估價師法的修正，還有土地法的修正，這是今天的範圍嘛！對不對？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：並備質詢嘛！對不對？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長，我今天想要問你的是都市更新事業優惠貸款要點，我這有沒有超過質詢範圍？"],["董次長建宏：我們尊重大院的決定跟委員的權責。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長，我現在在問你，問你我現在要質詢這個題目有沒有超過質詢範圍，根據昨天二讀通過的這個條文，到底有沒有超過質詢範圍？開會通知單上面寫的是不動產估價師法還有土地法，那我身為委員，我當然可以問所有的問題，我這有超過質詢範圍嗎？"],["董次長建宏：我們尊重大院的決定跟委員的權責。"],["蘇委員巧慧：部長，你這樣子喔，你這樣子不得拒絕回答、不得拒絕答復，根據通過二讀的第二十五條第二項，不得拒絕答復喔！不然就是藐視國會啦！藐視國會啊，真的！這個這麼公開，部長，可以不可以，你難道不能表示一下嗎？"],["董次長建宏：我們尊重大院的決定跟委員的權責。"],["蘇委員巧慧：現場有幾個？1、2、3、4、5，來，我們一起連署一下啦，2萬到20萬啦，各位，我沒有跟大家開玩笑，次長，我跟你說，接下來的政務官很難做，因為我剛剛問的問題，根據昨天通過二讀的法條，如果再繼續走下去，我剛剛的問題都成立啊！而且到底是不是這樣，還沒有人知道耶！不知道怎麼解釋，因為昨天的這些法條通過之前，不知道，完全沒有經過任何的討論，所以它的範圍到底是什麼？沒有人知道，次長，好自為之啦！好啦，次長，第一天到立法院備詢就被問這種問題，我們等一下這個影片請大家出去評評理，接下來中華民國的政務官都要用這樣的標準在立法院備詢嗎？還有人願意來做中華民國服務人民的官員嗎？我請大家仔細地思考看看，我們昨天二讀通過的法條到底合不合理，這是我今天的第一個問題。","好啦！但是本於我自己的國會職責、內政委員會的職責，我真的想跟你討論都市更新事業優惠貸款要點，次長，請問你知道這個要點嗎？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這個要點很多人不知道，我昨天問了聯絡人，還有問了部內的資深人員、承辦人員，其實他們也都不太知道，這個要點是什麼時候開始的？"],["董次長建宏：在95年1月25號由行政院在加速推動更新方案……"],["蘇委員巧慧：95年就開始了，好，那到現在還在嗎？"],["董次長建宏：還在。"],["蘇委員巧慧：還在嘛！95年到現在，請問根據這個優惠貸款的要點一共申請了、執行了幾件？"],["董次長建宏：一共累積已經通過有59件……"],["蘇委員巧慧：才59件！對不對？才59件，好，大家聽聽看，我們這個貸款匡列了2,000億，但是這麼多年、二十幾年下來，一共才59件，這樣一個我們要促進都市更新事業所設立的優惠貸款，你覺得這樣的政策工具成效好嗎？"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，相關的優惠貸款，我們是國發會協調中華郵政去提撥2,000億貸款……"],["蘇委員巧慧：是啦！"],["董次長建宏：如同委員所講的，但是很多從事都市更新相關的事業體，他們有的因為可以從私人的銀行或者是……"],["蘇委員巧慧：沒錯。"],["董次長建宏：所以他們就不一定會來申請我們的……"],["蘇委員巧慧：對，好，但是為什麼它會去私人銀行不會來這裡？來，我們給你看嘛！就下面這幾項，第一、貸款利率跟其他金融機構的差異不大，你今天如果真的要做到優惠的感覺，你就是利率的差異要做出來，讓人家覺得我願意來這裡，這裡更好，這才是有效的政策工具嘛！第二點、第三點，我甚至也都幫你整理好了，第二點就是貸款的年限不長，我們先看下一張投影片，次長，你是專家，你非常清楚，應該比我更清楚，都市更新的期程其實就是分這樣的三階段，其實第一階段開發整合，第二階段開發審查，第三階段就是核貸、申請建照和建築施工，其實花費最長的時間是什麼？是第一階段開發整合的時間，對不對？"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["蘇委員巧慧：可是我們什麼時候可以開始申請剛剛的這個優惠貸款？是一、二、三哪一個時間點開始？"],["董次長建宏：是在第三個階段。"],["蘇委員巧慧：第三個階段，好，那到第三個階段我才可以申請這個貸款，如果這個時候我開始申請了之後，因為通常蓋建案，大概確實是您現在的這個優惠的貸款，它的年限6年，差不多、差不多啦，可是其實最需要錢、最需要發揮的、最需要政府協助的，其實是前面的階段，所以次長，我今天特別提出這個問題來跟您請教、就教，你看看政府現在要不要鼓勵都市更新？要嘛！事實上我們的危老，我給你看一個數據，你看危老，危老的部分我們是從2017年才開始的，可是到現在已經是3,599件，都市更新的話，1998年開始才這樣子的件數而已，這是一個非常重大的落差。順便在這裡請教次長，次長，危老重建的條例其實又已經快要到期了，有沒有再延長的想像、再延長的機會？"],["董次長建宏：有，目前我們正在政策評估當中。"],["蘇委員巧慧：有嘛！是不是？因為做得好，你就是會再延長嘛！所以我們再回來前面剛剛這個部分，都市更新事業獎勵的這個部分，次長，今天給你看到了有這樣的狀況，而且它的成效確實是不彰，所以還有剛剛第三點，推廣效果不佳，因為連聯絡人都搞不清楚這個狀況，所以我建議是不是能夠好好地把這個優惠貸款的部分再重新研究一下？看是要把利率差異做大還是貸款的年限拉長，甚至是往前段就有開啟的機會，我認為這都是可以討論的，是不是可以請部內跟我辦公室再做進一步的研究？"],["董次長建宏：好，謝謝委員指教，我們會注意這些部分……"],["蘇委員巧慧：你認同這個方向啦！"],["董次長建宏：對。"],["蘇委員巧慧：你認同這個修正方向？"],["董次長建宏：我們會再跟委員做請益、討論。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，謝謝次長，謝謝。"],["董次長建宏：謝謝委員。"],["蘇委員巧慧：次長，不要嚇到，第一題。"],["董次長建宏：不會。"],["主席：謝謝蘇巧慧委員。次長，巧慧是最認真的委員。","下一位請麥玉珍委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":466,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-19","speakers":["吳琪銘","蔡易餘","蘇巧慧","麥玉珍","王美惠","黃建賓","黃捷","張宏陸","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","李柏毅","鄭天財Sra 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面嘛這幾項嘛第一貸款利率跟其他金融機構的差異不大你今天如果真的要做到優惠的感覺你就是這個利率的差異要做出來讓人家覺得說啊我願意來這裡這裡更好這才是有效的政策工具嘛來啦第二點但第三點我甚至也都幫你整理好了第二點就是貸款的年限不長我們先看下一張喔下一張投影片喔"},{"start":335.239,"end":352.893,"text":"市長你是專家嘛你非常清楚應該比我更清楚都市更新的期程其實就是分這樣的三階段那其實第一階段開發整合第二階段開發審查第三階段就是核代申請建造和建築施工其實花費最長的時間是什麼是第一階段開發整合的時間對不對可是我們什麼時候可以開始申請剛剛的這個優惠貸款是123哪一個時間點開始是在第三個階段第三個階段"},{"start":365.123,"end":380.255,"text":"好,那到第三個階段我才可以申請這個貸款好,如果這個時候我開始申請了之後因為通常概見案大概確實是您現在的這個優惠的貸款它的年限6年差不多差不多啦可是其實最需要錢"},{"start":381.116,"end":383.96,"text":"則不予審查委員吳琪銘等17人擬具:「土地法第七十三條之一條文修正草案案 案。"},{"start":398.302,"end":399.623,"text":"二、審查委員吳琪銘等17人擬具 «土地法第十四條之一條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":419.104,"end":422.685,"text":"市長,今天給你看到了有這樣的狀況而且它的成效確實是不彰所以"},{"start":438.871,"end":464.919,"text":"還有剛剛第三點推廣效果不佳因為連聯絡人都搞不清楚這個狀況所以我建議是不是能夠好好的把這個優惠貸款的部分再重新研究一下看是要把利率差異做大還是貸款的年限拉長甚至是往前斷就有開啟的機會我認為這都是可以討論的是不是可以請部內到跟我辦公室再做進一步的研究"},{"start":465.339,"end":481.196,"text":"好,謝謝委員指教。我們會那個...你認同這個方向啦吼?你認同這個方向?修正的方向?對,我們會再跟委員做審議討論。好,謝謝次長,謝謝。謝謝,謝謝次長。次長不要嚇到吼,第一題。不會不會。好,謝謝每次巧慧委員。好,次長。"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:03.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:04.997000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們請董次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:04.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:06.058000+08:00","text":"好，請董次長。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:12.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:12.023000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:12.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:12.443000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:13.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:20.991000+08:00","text":"次長，今天您第一次備詢，但我想問你的第一個問題是，次長，今天為什麼是由您出席？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:21.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:21.831000+08:00","text":"部長呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:22.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:22.812000+08:00","text":"部長有請假嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:23.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:24.745000+08:00","text":"有，部長有請假。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:25.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:25.807000+08:00","text":"部長跟誰請假？","quality":1},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:26.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:27.409000+08:00","text":"部長跟委員會請假。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:27.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:29.431000+08:00","text":"跟委員會請假，那誰同意了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:30.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:30.753000+08:00","text":"誰同意了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:31.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:31.995000+08:00","text":"我同意的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:32.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:35.520000+08:00","text":"召委同意就等於是委員會同意嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:35.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:48.657000+08:00","text":"部長，對啊，委員會跟召委，如果根據昨天國民黨和民眾黨共提的修正動議版本，上面是寫委員會同意，沒說召委同意就算喔！","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:49.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:50.399000+08:00","text":"對啊，這個還沒有確定喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:50.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:52.002000+08:00","text":"我不知道這範圍是多少。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:53.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:22:54.945000+08:00","text":"再來次長我問你的第二個問題，主席，不為難你啦！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:22:54.945000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:02.092000+08:00","text":"你昨天也是站我們這邊的啦，對啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:02.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:05.595000+08:00","text":"來，次長，我再問你，次長，今天我們要討論的主題是什麼？","quality":0.591},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:05.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:14.523000+08:00","text":"我們要討論的主題，今天的質詢主題是要討論不動產估價師法的修正，還有土地法的修正，這是今天的範圍嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:15.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:16.144000+08:00","text":"對不對？是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:16.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:16.144000+08:00","text":"並備質詢嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:17.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:17.165000+08:00","text":"對不對？是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:17.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:21.889000+08:00","text":"部長，我今天想要問你的是都市更新事業優惠貸款要點，我這有沒有超過質詢範圍？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:23.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:25.912000+08:00","text":"我們尊重大院的決定跟委員的權責。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:25.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:31.755000+08:00","text":"部長，我現在在問你，問你我現在要質詢這個題目有沒有超過質詢範圍，根據昨天二讀通過的這個條文，到底有沒有超過質詢範圍？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:31.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:34.696000+08:00","text":"開會通知單上面寫的是不動產估價師法還有土地法，那我身為委員，我當然可以問所有的問題，我這有超過質詢範圍嗎？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:52.546000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:54.048000+08:00","text":"我們尊重大院的決定跟委員的權責。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:54.048000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:23:57.670667+08:00","text":"部長，你這樣子喔，你這樣子不得拒絕回答、不得拒絕答復，根據通過二讀的第二十五條第二項，不得拒絕答復喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:23:57.670667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:01.293333+08:00","text":"不然就是藐視國會啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:24:01.293333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:04.916000+08:00","text":"藐視國會啊，真的！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:24:04.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:08.538667+08:00","text":"這個這麼公開，部長，可以不可以，你難道不能表示一下嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:24:08.538667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:12.161333+08:00","text":"我們尊重大院的決定跟委員的權責。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:24:12.161333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:15.784000+08:00","text":"現場有幾個？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:24:15.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:22.987000+08:00","text":"1、2、3、4、5，來，我們一起連署一下啦，2萬到20萬啦，各位，我沒有跟大家開玩笑，次長，我跟你說，接下來的政務官很難做，因為我剛剛問的問題，根據昨天通過二讀的法條，如果再繼續走下去，我剛剛的問題都成立啊！","quality":0.329},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:24:22.987000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:28.896500+08:00","text":"而且到底是不是這樣，還沒有人知道耶！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:24:28.896500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:34.806000+08:00","text":"不知道怎麼解釋，因為昨天的這些法條通過之前，不知道，完全沒有經過任何的討論，所以它的範圍到底是什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:24:34.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:24:59.275000+08:00","text":"沒有人知道，次長，好自為之啦！","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:25:01.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:25:05.639000+08:00","text":"好啦，次長，第一天到立法院備詢就被問這種問題，我們等一下這個影片請大家出去評評理，接下來中華民國的政務官都要用這樣的標準在立法院備詢嗎？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:25:05.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:25:06.340000+08:00","text":"還有人願意來做中華民國服務人民的官員嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:25:23.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:25:33.860000+08:00","text":"我請大家仔細地思考看看，我們昨天二讀通過的法條到底合不合理，這是我今天的第一個問題。好啦！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:25:34.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:25:39.664000+08:00","text":"但是本於我自己的國會職責、內政委員會的職責，我真的想跟你討論都市更新事業優惠貸款要點，次長，請問你知道這個要點嗎？是。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:25:45.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:25:57.419000+08:00","text":"這個要點很多人不知道，我昨天問了聯絡人，還有問了部內的資深人員、承辦人員，其實他們也都不太知道，這個要點是什麼時候開始的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:25:58.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:03.642000+08:00","text":"在95年1月25號由行政院在加速推動更新方案……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:03.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:06.864000+08:00","text":"95年就開始了，好，那到現在還在嗎？還在。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:06.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:07.064000+08:00","text":"還在嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:07.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:13.528000+08:00","text":"95年到現在，請問根據這個優惠貸款的要點一共申請了、執行了幾件？","quality":1},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:14.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:16.410000+08:00","text":"一共累積已經通過有59件……才59件！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:16.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:16.650000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:16.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:21.654000+08:00","text":"才59件，好，大家聽聽看，我們這個貸款匡列了2,000億，但是這麼多年、二十幾年下來，一共才59件，這樣一個我們要促進都市更新事業所設立的優惠貸款，你覺得這樣的政策工具成效好嗎？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:41.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:47.706000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，相關的優惠貸款，我們是國發會協調中華郵政去提撥2,000億貸款……是啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:49.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:26:59.133000+08:00","text":"如同委員所講的，但是很多從事都市更新相關的事業體，他們有的因為可以從私人的銀行或者是……沒錯。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:26:59.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:00.374000+08:00","text":"所以他們就不一定會來申請我們的……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:02.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:05.318000+08:00","text":"對，好，但是為什麼它會去私人銀行不會來這裡？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:05.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:05.918000+08:00","text":"來，我們給你看嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:06.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:22.551000+08:00","text":"就下面這幾項，第一、貸款利率跟其他金融機構的差異不大，你今天如果真的要做到優惠的感覺，你就是利率的差異要做出來，讓人家覺得我願意來這裡，這裡更好，這才是有效的政策工具嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:23.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:47.452000+08:00","text":"第二點、第三點，我甚至也都幫你整理好了，第二點就是貸款的年限不長，我們先看下一張投影片，次長，你是專家，你非常清楚，應該比我更清楚，都市更新的期程其實就是分這樣的三階段，其實第一階段開發整合，第二階段開發審查，第三階段就是核貸、申請建照和建築施工，其實花費最長的時間是什麼？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:47.452000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:47.712000+08:00","text":"是第一階段開發整合的時間，對不對？是。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:47.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:48.353000+08:00","text":"可是我們什麼時候可以開始申請剛剛的這個優惠貸款？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:48.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:48.553000+08:00","text":"是一、二、三哪一個時間點開始？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:48.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:27:48.793000+08:00","text":"是在第三個階段。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:27:48.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:28:17.116000+08:00","text":"第三個階段，好，那到第三個階段我才可以申請這個貸款，如果這個時候我開始申請了之後，因為通常蓋建案，大概確實是您現在的這個優惠的貸款，它的年限6年，差不多、差不多啦，可是其實最需要錢、最需要發揮的、最需要政府協助的，其實是前面的階段，所以次長，我今天特別提出這個問題來跟您請教、就教，你看看政府現在要不要鼓勵都市更新？要嘛！","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:28:17.116000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:28:24.713600+08:00","text":"事實上我們的危老，我給你看一個數據，你看危老，危老的部分我們是從2017年才開始的，可是到現在已經是3,599件，都市更新的話，1998年開始才這樣子的件數而已，這是一個非常重大的落差。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:28:24.713600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:28:32.311200+08:00","text":"順便在這裡請教次長，次長，危老重建的條例其實又已經快要到期了，有沒有再延長的想像、再延長的機會？","quality":0.023},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:28:32.311200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:28:39.908800+08:00","text":"有，目前我們正在政策評估當中。有嘛！","quality":0.067},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:28:39.908800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:28:47.506400+08:00","text":"是不是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:28:47.506400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:28:55.104000+08:00","text":"因為做得好，你就是會再延長嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:28:55.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:25.814000+08:00","text":"所以我們再回來前面剛剛這個部分，都市更新事業獎勵的這個部分，次長，今天給你看到了有這樣的狀況，而且它的成效確實是不彰，所以還有剛剛第三點，推廣效果不佳，因為連聯絡人都搞不清楚這個狀況，所以我建議是不是能夠好好地把這個優惠貸款的部分再重新研究一下？","quality":0.746},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:26.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:40.899000+08:00","text":"看是要把利率差異做大還是貸款的年限拉長，甚至是往前段就有開啟的機會，我認為這都是可以討論的，是不是可以請部內跟我辦公室再做進一步的研究？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:41.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:43.521000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員指教，我們會注意這些部分……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:44.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:45.043000+08:00","text":"你認同這個方向啦！對。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:45.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:46.404000+08:00","text":"你認同這個修正方向？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:47.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:48.827000+08:00","text":"我們會再跟委員做請益、討論。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:48.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:49.748000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝次長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:49.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:49.748000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:50.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:53.292000+08:00","text":"次長，不要嚇到，第一題。不會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:54.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-22T09:29:56.895000+08:00","text":"謝謝蘇巧慧委員。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-22T09:29:57.395000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:30:00.537857+08:00","text":"次長，巧慧是最認真的委員。","quality":0.182},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-22T09:30:00.837857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-22T09:30:03.409286+08:00","text":"下一位請麥玉珍委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}