{"error":false,"id":["152993"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":152993,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/152993","日期":"2024-05-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-26","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":26,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-27T09:55:04+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-27T10:06:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/536b9eee2a0ea5b3846f913a1136addbfcddaa0058768d2e945ede7791f90b9e286f51d77010decd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"09:55:04 - 10:06:33","會議時間":"2024-05-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議（事由：一、併案審查\n（一）委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第八十三條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員王育敏等21人擬具「中華民國刑法增訂第八十條之一條文草案」案。\n二、繼續併案審查\n（一）委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員徐巧芯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員馬文君等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員羅智強等29人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員黃健豪等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員蔡易餘等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員王世堅等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條、第三百三十九條之三及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十四）委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十六）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十七）委員魯明哲等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案。\n【第二案（十七）各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":252,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（9時55分）有請徐次長及司法院李廳長。"],["主席：請次長及廳長。"],["徐次長錫祥：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：在問到兒少的問題之前，我還是想就最近國人最關注的國會改革議題來就教兩位，我想先請問次長，你會在國會說謊嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：不會。"],["羅委員智強：不會嘛，對不對？那你知道在國會說謊，在美國最高會被處以多久的刑罰？"],["徐次長錫祥：報告委員，我不知道。"],["羅委員智強：一個月以上十二個月以下。","那你知道在英國，說謊的官員最高會被處多重的刑罰？"],["徐次長錫祥：報告委員，我不清楚。"],["羅委員智強：法務部作為一個法制研究單位，如果連立法院都已經做出這個分析研究的話，我覺得法務部還是要做一點研究，好不好？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：因為這涉及世界法制，這也是法務部應該要關切的事，法務部算是政府的法律守門人，所以基本上對於各國的法制還是要有所瞭解，這部分請次長傳達到部裡面，針對各國法制還是要做一點功夫研究。"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：那我告訴你，英國對於說謊官員最高是關兩年你知道法國最高是關幾年嗎？法國也是最高關兩年。然後你知道日本最重是關幾年嗎？如果是無正當理由拒絕出席宣誓作證是一年以下，但說謊是什麼？"],["徐次長錫祥：三個月以上十年以下。"],["羅委員智強：非常好，今天法務部就有進入狀況，最高是關十年。那你知道我們目前已經準備要審查通過有關於說謊官員的處罰，新的國會改革版本在我們國家你知道對於說謊官員最高是處多重的刑罰嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：一年。"],["羅委員智強：一年嘛！"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：那你覺得一年重還是十年重？"],["徐次長錫祥：我尊重大院……"],["羅委員智強：這是數學問題，我不是問你價值判斷，一年重還是十年重？"],["徐次長錫祥：當然是十年重。"],["羅委員智強：當然是十年重嘛！請問一年重還是三年重？"],["徐次長錫祥：當然是三年重。"],["羅委員智強：一年重還是二年重？"],["徐次長錫祥：二年重啊！"],["羅委員智強：那你比較起來，針對我剛剛講的美國、英國、法國、日本，加上臺灣最新要通過的，哪一個版本對說謊官員刑責是最輕的？"],["徐次長錫祥：這幾個國家……"],["羅委員智強：對，這五個。"],["徐次長錫祥：當然是臺灣。"],["羅委員智強：當然是臺灣嘛！非常謝謝次長，這是我要跟大家釐清的第一件事。另外，次長你知道嗎？我剛剛講的這幾個國家，他們所謂的違反聽證調查只處罰官員嗎？這些刑罰只處罰官員嗎？人民有沒有處罰？你可以請教幕僚有沒有處罰？也有處罰嘛！你的幕僚在點頭……"],["徐次長錫祥：部分有……"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你都有！包括美國、英國、法國、日本，如果傳喚證人到國會來，不管你是官員還是人民，這些處罰規定都是一體適用的。那你知道我們最新的國會改革版本，在我剛剛所講的刑事罰部分，請問有沒有處罰人民？"],["徐次長錫祥：目前是沒有。"],["羅委員智強：沒有嘛，對不對？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：那我想請問，對人民有處刑事罰跟沒處刑事罰，誰比較重？"],["徐次長錫祥：有處罰的當然比較重。"],["羅委員智強：有處罰的比較重嘛，對不對？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：所以我跟各位講，我為什麼要藉由這個機會，透過專業的法務部來釐清一些概念？第一個，我們現在正要審的國會改革版本裡面，對說謊官員的處罰是這些國家裡面最低的。第二個，對於人民的部分，其他國家連刑罰都有，但是臺灣，我們現在最新的部分是只有行政罰而沒有刑罰。","我想再請教一下，你知道1993年民進黨其實也推出過國會改革版本，他們裡面的規定是對人民最高可以處七年以下有期徒刑，是對人民喔，不只對官員喔！我想請問，這樣一個處七年以下有期徒刑的版本，它的罰則對人民比較重，還是今天國民黨、民眾黨的版本人民沒有刑事處罰比較重？哪一個比較重？七年以下的比較重，還是沒有刑事處罰的比較重？"],["徐次長錫祥：報告委員，剛才委員講的那個版本，我沒有……"],["羅委員智強：我只是問你數學問題嘛！"],["徐次長錫祥：我們針對七年和一年……"],["羅委員智強：七年以下和沒有處罰誰比較重？"],["徐次長錫祥：當然是七年比較重。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛！所以我在這邊要告訴民進黨造謠的這群人：第一個，刑罰沒有到人民，而在其他幾個民進黨非常想學的民主國家裡面，對於說謊官員的處罰也是最輕的啦！民進黨過去的版本甚至罰人民要罰到七年，結果今天可以在這邊謠言指控國民黨。今天非常謝謝次長，但我不為難你。","接下來要問到今天我們關切的問題，你知道今年3月媒體才報導一位楊姓男子性侵女網友，警方採集DNA時，發現他涉及三起二十年以前的強盜性侵案，請問次長這時候發現他涉及二十年以前的強盜性侵案該怎麼處理？"],["徐次長錫祥：司法警察會針對這些證據……"],["羅委員智強：你直接告訴我，以你的法律專業來講，這個案子最後會怎麼處理？"],["徐次長錫祥：會分案調查。"],["羅委員智強：分案調查？"],["徐次長錫祥：對。"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，檢方不起訴啦！請問次長，為什麼不起訴？"],["徐次長錫祥：如果是三百三十二條的話，追訴期間有到三十年，如果是時效，應該不是裡面的原因吧！"],["羅委員智強：不是原因嗎？請你回去再查一下好不好？我看媒體報導說檢方最後不起訴啊！"],["徐次長錫祥：有時候是沒有證據或者是……"],["羅委員智強：我再請問一下次長，事實上到目前為止，針對刑事追訴期，你也知道性侵案被告其實他們跟一般的刑事案被告有一個很大的差別，你知道是什麼差別嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：被告是不是？"],["羅委員智強：性侵案的受害者。"],["徐次長錫祥：這是一個隱密性的，而且常常之間都有朋友或親戚的關係，的確被害人是比較弱勢的。"],["羅委員智強：他也比較不太願意告訴別人。"],["徐次長錫祥：對。"],["羅委員智強：有些研究，比如說澳洲的研究報告指出，性侵的被害者平均要花23.9年才能告訴他人，並且男性揭發的時間通常比女性更久，平均要花25.6年。換言之，性侵案的受害者其實在法律上的一些狀況跟其他一般刑案受害者是有一些不同的嘛，對不對？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：有一些私密性的問題，然後他有一些自我的尊嚴受創的問題，所以他們在處理他們自己內心傷痛的時間是比較久的，這也是為什麼今天我們在討論這個案件，有人針對時效的部分認為是不是應該有區別，這一點我覺得法務部可能也不能把它當作一般的刑案來看待，這個你認同嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：我們認為就具體的犯罪要特別地來制定一些制度要審慎，我們的態度只有這樣，並沒有反對，我們並沒有反對。"],["羅委員智強：我講審慎同意啦，但是就是因為審慎，可是像性侵的被害者，我剛剛前面已經講了嘛，你也認同跟其他刑案的被害者，他們願意說出來的情況是不相同的，所以換言之，在時效的部分，我覺得應該就是你所講的，在審慎當中可能要考量其差異性，不是嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：有些人被搶被偷可能當場就到警察局報案了，殺人案一發生，當場發現就開始報案偵辦了，只有性侵案可能都要拖個20、30年，被害者才願意講耶！所以這是為什麼今天大家希望法務部重新衡量時效的一個很重要的基礎嘛，因此這一點我希望法務部能夠考量。","另外，最後我要講，實際上我們知道現在臺灣所謂的性交猥褻被害人人數不斷地上升。我舉個例子，你知道去年6歲到11歲性交猥褻的被害人有多少人？2023年6到11歲，我告訴你，390人；12到17歲有多少人？我告訴你，2,037人，你知道警政署從什麼時候開始統計所謂的性交猥褻被害人？哪一年開始統計的？2002年。那我再考你，2002年統計到現在，你知道有史以來最高的紀錄是哪一年？"],["徐次長錫祥：這個跟我們推動……"],["羅委員智強：我知道，你要講說鼓勵大家那個……"],["徐次長錫祥：對，有差。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛。"],["徐次長錫祥：對。"],["羅委員智強：可是我跟你講，就算你開始做很多鼓勵之後，實際上最高的是哪一年？就是去年啊，沒錯吧？","另外，以未成年數來看的話，未成年性交猥褻被害人數在2015年，每萬位未成年有多少人？有5.02人，你知道2023年提高到多少嗎？每萬位有多少未成年性交猥褻的被害人？是7.44人，成長1.48倍。"],["徐次長錫祥：這跟當時的世界運動有關係。"],["羅委員智強：我要跟各位說，我要跟次長說，不管是什麼原因，實際上這些案件數的升高就是法務部要注意的事情，不是嗎？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：因此這是為什麼我們今天才會想到要修法的問題，因為我們看到客觀數字其實是在不斷地飆升跟成長當中，當然我們希望能夠提出一些法制上的修正去改變現狀的問題。所以我覺得你們未必要像過去一般看待性交猥褻被害者的視角跟一般刑案一樣來看待，性交猥褻的被害者在臺灣的案件數不斷升高，是有其案件性質的特殊性，這點希望法務部能夠考慮進去，好不好？"],["徐次長錫祥：是。"],["羅委員智強：好。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位我們請林思銘委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":254,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-26","speakers":["吳宗憲","洪孟楷","王育敏","沈發惠","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","羅智強","林思銘","翁曉玲","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":211,"meetingDate":["2024-05-27"],"gazette_id":"1135102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135102_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第26次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、併案審查(一)委員洪孟楷等21人擬具「中華民國刑法第八十三條條文修正草案」案、(二)委\n員王育敏等21人擬具「中華民國刑法增訂第八十條之一條文草案」案；二、繼續併案審查 (一)\n委員廖偉翔等18人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(二)委員徐巧芯\n等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(三)委員\n馬文君等17 人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、\n(四)委員羅智強等29人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員黃健豪\n等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(六)委員蔡易餘等17人擬具\n「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(七)委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國\n刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(八)委員洪孟楷等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百\n三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(九)委員徐欣瑩等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之\n四條文修正草案」案、(十)委員涂權吉等19人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正\n草案」案、(十一)委員王世堅等22人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條、第三百三十九條之三\n及第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員謝衣鳯等17人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百\n三十九條條文修正草案」案、(十三)委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四\n條文修正草案」案、(十四)委員陳菁徽等16人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第三百三十\n九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十五)委員葉元之等24人擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九條及第\n三百三十九條之四條文修正草案」案、(十六)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「中華民國刑法第三百三十九\n條之四條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1135102_00008"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":0.03096875,"end":1.54971875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.15159375,"end":17.12534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.53846875,"end":20.04471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.32721875,"end":47.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.17534375,"end":59.09346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":58.165343750000005,"end":58.82346875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":59.09346875000001,"end":59.110343750000006,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.110343750000006,"end":59.14409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":59.14409375,"end":59.414093750000006,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":59.414093750000006,"end":95.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":84.82784375,"end":85.38471875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.68659375,"end":102.63096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.09909375000001,"end":105.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.55034375000001,"end":112.30034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":108.21659375,"end":109.17846875000001,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.85721875,"end":135.80721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":136.43159375000002,"end":139.73909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":139.97534375,"end":142.01721875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.47721875000002,"end":145.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":146.30346875,"end":146.87721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":146.87721875,"end":148.24409375000002,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.75471875000002,"end":150.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":148.59846875000002,"end":148.75034375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":150.43784375,"end":150.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":150.45471875,"end":152.09159375000002,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.55159375000002,"end":153.25596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.82971875,"end":165.32159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.48596875,"end":168.25784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":168.25784375,"end":170.40096875,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.40534375000001,"end":170.31659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.40096875,"end":183.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.66034375,"end":187.79909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":189.53721875000002,"end":191.22471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":192.81096875,"end":194.71784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":194.71784375000001,"end":194.98784375000002,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":194.98784375000002,"end":195.22409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":195.22409375,"end":195.29159375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":195.29159375,"end":196.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":195.64596875,"end":196.13534375,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":197.80596875,"end":217.46534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.08971875,"end":219.28784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.50284375,"end":221.26221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.65846875000003,"end":231.21846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.60221875000002,"end":241.07346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.01846875,"end":248.66721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":249.13971875000001,"end":250.01721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":250.10159375,"end":265.93034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.18346875000003,"end":290.95596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":290.97284375000004,"end":290.98971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.15846875,"end":294.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.97221875,"end":295.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":295.88346875,"end":298.43159375000005,"speaker_score":0.929},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.12784375,"end":304.67534375},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對不對那你知道在國會說謊在美國會被處以多久的刑罰最高包委員我不知道"},{"start":48.24,"end":77.64,"text":"一年以上一月以上十二月以下那你知道在英國說謊的官員會被最高處多少的刑法多重的刑法不清楚其實法務部作為一個法治研究單位的話如果說連立法院都已經做出這個分析研究的話就法務部還是要做一點研究啦好不好是對因為這是涉及全世界法治這也是法務部應該要關切的事法務部事實上是這個政府的法律守門人"},{"start":78.68,"end":102.119,"text":"所以基本上對於各國的法制還是要有所了解這個請這個次長傳達部裡面針對各國法制還是要做點功夫研究那我告訴你英國是說謊官員是關兩年啦最高關兩年你知道法國是最高關幾年嗎法國也是最高是關兩年啦然後你知道日本是關幾年"},{"start":104.161,"end":111.98,"text":"日本最重。如果說只是無正當理由拒絕出席宣誓作證是一年以下啦。但說謊是什麼?"},{"start":114.041,"end":135.066,"text":"三個月以上十年以下非常好今天法務部就有進入狀況十年最高關十年那在我們新目前已經準備要來審準備要通過的這個有關於說謊官員的處罰新的國會改革版本在我們國家你知道最高是說謊官員是處多重的刑罰嗎"},{"start":136.482,"end":162.818,"text":"一年那你覺得一年重還是十年重我尊重這是數學問題我不是問你價值判斷一年重還是十年重當然是十年重一年重還是三年重當然三年重一年重還是兩年重兩年重啊那我跟你講那你比下去我剛剛講的美國英國法國日本目前台灣最新要通過的哪一個版本對說謊官員刑責是最輕的"},{"start":167.311,"end":190.707,"text":"這幾個國家對這五個那當台灣嘛對非常謝謝部長所以我要跟大家釐清的第一件事那另外部長次長你知道嗎我剛剛講這幾個國家齁他們的所謂的違反聽證調查只處罰官員嗎這些刑法只處罰官員嗎人民有沒有處罰你可以請教幕僚有沒有處罰"},{"start":192.867,"end":196.528,"text":"委員魯明哲等16人擬具《中華民國刑法第三百三十九條之四條文修正草案》案。"},{"start":224.243,"end":248.382,"text":"目前是沒有沒有嘛 對不對 對不對那我想請問對人民有處刑事法跟沒處刑事法誰比較重有處罰的當然有處罰比較重嘛 對不對所以我跟各位講喔第一個為什麼要藉由這個機會透過專業的法務部來釐清一些概念台灣我們現在正在審的國會改革版本裡面對說謊官員處罰是這些國家裡面最低的"},{"start":249.215,"end":265.291,"text":"adequ.對於人民的部分的話其他國家連刑法都有但是台灣我們現在最新的部分是只有行政法是沒有刑法的那我想再請教一下你知道1993年民進黨其實也推出過國會改革版本"},{"start":266.272,"end":293.34,"text":"他們裡面的規定是對於人民對人民最高可以處七年以下有期徒刑人民喔不只官員喔人民喔那我想請問處七年以下有期徒刑的這樣的一個版本它的罰則對人民比較重還是今天國民黨的版本國民眾黨的版本人民沒有刑事處罰哪一個比較重七年以下比較重還是沒有刑事處罰比較重"},{"start":295.011,"end":310.385,"text":"報告委員剛才委員講到那個版本我沒有聽沒有我跟你講我只問你的數學問題嘛我們針對七年啦對我們針對七年七年以下跟沒有處罰誰比較重當然就七年比較重對嘛所以我要告訴這邊民進黨又會造謠這一群人啦"},{"start":311.55,"end":332.055,"text":"第一個刑法沒有到人民啦而在其他幾個主要民進黨非常想學的民主國家裡面說謊官員處罰也是最輕的啦民進黨過去的版本甚至罰人民要罰到七年啦結果今天可以在這邊謠言指控國民黨所以非常謝謝今天部長當然不為難你啊次長不為難你"},{"start":333.215,"end":356.704,"text":"接下來我們要問到今天我們關切的問題你知道今年三月媒體才報導一位陽性男子性侵女網友警方採集DNA時發現他涉及三起二十年以前的強盜性侵案請問這時候發現他涉及二十年以前的強盜性侵案請問怎麼處理"},{"start":359.813,"end":380.506,"text":"市長怎麼處理這個我們那個司法警察會針對這些證據你直接告訴我以你的法律來講這個案子會怎麼處理最後會怎麼處理會分案調查分案調查我告訴你檢方不起訴啦為什麼為什麼不起訴市長為什麼不起訴"},{"start":386.175,"end":404.651,"text":"如果是332的話追訴期間有到30年所以如果是時效應該不是裡面的原因吧不是原因嗎那回去再查一下好不好我看到媒體報導說警方最後不起訴啊不是有時候是沒有證據或者是我再要請問一下我們次長"},{"start":406.252,"end":422.546,"text":"實際上到目前為止針對誰的刑事的追溯期裡面你也知道基本上性侵被告他平均所他性侵案被告其實他們跟一般的刑事案被告有一個很大的差別是什麼你知道什麼差別嗎被告是不是對性侵案的受害者受害者"},{"start":430.567,"end":449.132,"text":"這是一個隱秘性的而且常常之間都有朋友或親戚的關係的確他被害人是比較弱勢的他也比較不太願意告訴別人那有些研究比如說澳洲的研究報告就是性侵的被害者平均要花23.9年才能告訴他人"},{"start":450.012,"end":473.67,"text":"然後男性揭發的時間通常比女性更久要平均要花二十五點六年所以換言之性侵案的受害者他其實在法律上的一些狀況跟其他一般刑案的受害者是有一些不同的嘛對不對他所有一些私密性的問題然後他有一些自己自我的一些所謂的尊嚴受創的問題"},{"start":475.131,"end":491.49,"text":"所以他們在處理他們的自己內心傷痛是時間是比較久的這也是為什麼今天我們在討論這個案件有人在針對時效的部分認為是不是應該有區別這一點我覺得法務部可能也不能把它當作一般的刑案來看待這你認同嗎"},{"start":494.42,"end":500.344,"text":"我講審慎同意啦但是就是因為審慎可是像性侵的被害者我剛前面已經講了嘛你也認同說跟其他刑案的被害者他們願意說出來的情況是不相同的嘛"},{"start":516.716,"end":529.443,"text":"所以換言之在時效的部分的話我覺得應該就是你講審慎當中可能要考量的差異性不是嗎?做調查說要特別要有些人可能被搶被偷可能當場就到警察局幹嘛啦?"},{"start":530.469,"end":530.649,"text":"此外最後我要講齁"},{"start":553.958,"end":575.009,"text":"實際上我們知道現在台灣這個所謂的性交猥褻被害人人數怎麼樣不斷的上升嘛對不對我舉個例子你知道我們去年這個6歲到11歲性交猥褻的被害人有多少人2023年6到11歲我告訴你390人12到17歲多少人"},{"start":580.846,"end":599.803,"text":"二千零三十七人你知道從警政署什麼時候開始統計所謂的性交猥褻被害人哪一年開始統計的?二千零二年那我再考你二千零二年統計到現在你知道哪一年是最高的?有史以來最高紀錄是哪一年?"},{"start":601.294,"end":602.816,"text":"羅智強 羅智強 羅智強"},{"start":615.95,"end":644.763,"text":"另外以所謂未成年數來看的話在2015年這個未成年性交猥褻被害人數2015年每萬位未成年是有多少人是有5.02人你知道2023年提高到多少嗎每萬位有多少未成年性交猥褻的被害人是7.44成長是1.48倍這跟當時的世界運動是有關係我要跟各位說我要跟那個次長說"},{"start":646.94,"end":671.452,"text":"不管是什麼原因,實際上這些案件數的升高就是法務部要注意的事情,不是嗎?是。所以因此這是為什麼我們今天才會想到修法的問題嘛。因為我們看到客觀數字其實是在不斷的飆升跟成長當中。當然我們希望就能夠提出一些法治上能夠去改變這個現狀的問題啊。所以我覺得未必要從你們從過去一般看待"},{"start":672.012,"end":672.953,"text":"則不可提出不復議同意書：羅智強"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:15.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:55:19.906000+08:00","text":"有請徐次長及司法院李廳長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:19.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:55:19.926000+08:00","text":"請次長及廳長。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:23.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:55:23.811000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:26.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:55:41.255000+08:00","text":"在問到兒少的問題之前，我還是想就最近國人最關注的國會改革議題來就教兩位，我想先請問次長，你會在國會說謊嗎？不會。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:41.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:55:42.875000+08:00","text":"不會嘛，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:42.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:55:49.176000+08:00","text":"那你知道在國會說謊，在美國最高會被處以多久的刑罰？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:50.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:55:50.797000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我不知道。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:52.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:55:55.602000+08:00","text":"一個月以上十二個月以下。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:55:56.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:02.447000+08:00","text":"那你知道在英國，說謊的官員最高會被處多重的刑罰？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:03.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:03.327000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我不清楚。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:05.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:14.515000+08:00","text":"法務部作為一個法制研究單位，如果連立法院都已經做出這個分析研究的話，我覺得法務部還是要做一點研究，好不好？是。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:15.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:32.108000+08:00","text":"因為這涉及世界法制，這也是法務部應該要關切的事，法務部算是政府的法律守門人，所以基本上對於各國的法制還是要有所瞭解，這部分請次長傳達到部裡面，針對各國法制還是要做一點功夫研究。是。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:32.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:41.755000+08:00","text":"那我告訴你，英國對於說謊官員最高是關兩年你知道法國最高是關幾年嗎？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:41.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:43.276000+08:00","text":"法國也是最高關兩年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:44.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:46.099000+08:00","text":"然後你知道日本最重是關幾年嗎？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:49.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:55.980000+08:00","text":"如果是無正當理由拒絕出席宣誓作證是一年以下，但說謊是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:58.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:56:59.222000+08:00","text":"三個月以上十年以下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:56:59.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:04.343000+08:00","text":"非常好，今天法務部就有進入狀況，最高是關十年。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:04.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:20.582000+08:00","text":"那你知道我們目前已經準備要審查通過有關於說謊官員的處罰，新的國會改革版本在我們國家你知道對於說謊官員最高是處多重的刑罰嗎？一年。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:20.582000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:21.582000+08:00","text":"一年嘛！是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:21.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:23.484000+08:00","text":"那你覺得一年重還是十年重？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:24.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:24.384000+08:00","text":"我尊重大院……","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:26.045000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:29.447000+08:00","text":"這是數學問題，我不是問你價值判斷，一年重還是十年重？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:31.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:32.469000+08:00","text":"當然是十年重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:32.469000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:33.469000+08:00","text":"當然是十年重嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:32.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:33.850000+08:00","text":"請問一年重還是三年重？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:34.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:35.251000+08:00","text":"當然是三年重。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:35.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:36.952000+08:00","text":"一年重還是二年重？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:38.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:38.513000+08:00","text":"二年重啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:38.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:46.798000+08:00","text":"那你比較起來，針對我剛剛講的美國、英國、法國、日本，加上臺灣最新要通過的，哪一個版本對說謊官員刑責是最輕的？","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:51.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:51.311000+08:00","text":"這幾個國家……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:51.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:52.271000+08:00","text":"對，這五個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:52.271000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:53.672000+08:00","text":"當然是臺灣。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:53.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:54.013000+08:00","text":"當然是臺灣嘛！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:55.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:57:57.955000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝次長，這是我要跟大家釐清的第一件事。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:57:58.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:01.458000+08:00","text":"另外，次長你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:01.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:08.803000+08:00","text":"我剛剛講的這幾個國家，他們所謂的違反聽證調查只處罰官員嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:08.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:10.925000+08:00","text":"這些刑罰只處罰官員嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:10.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:13.587000+08:00","text":"人民有沒有處罰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:13.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:14.707000+08:00","text":"你可以請教幕僚有沒有處罰？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:14.707000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:20.296333+08:00","text":"也有處罰嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:20.296333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:25.885667+08:00","text":"你的幕僚在點頭……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:25.885667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:31.475000+08:00","text":"部分有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:31.475000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:37.064333+08:00","text":"我告訴你都有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:37.064333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:42.653667+08:00","text":"包括美國、英國、法國、日本，如果傳喚證人到國會來，不管你是官員還是人民，這些處罰規定都是一體適用的。","quality":0.07},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:42.653667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:48.243000+08:00","text":"那你知道我們最新的國會改革版本，在我剛剛所講的刑事罰部分，請問有沒有處罰人民？","quality":0.056},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:48.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:48.904000+08:00","text":"目前是沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:49.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:50.185000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:50.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:54.968000+08:00","text":"那我想請問，對人民有處刑事罰跟沒處刑事罰，誰比較重？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:56.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:57.550000+08:00","text":"有處罰的當然比較重。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:57.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:58:59.512000+08:00","text":"有處罰的比較重嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:58:59.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:59:04.696000+08:00","text":"所以我跟各位講，我為什麼要藉由這個機會，透過專業的法務部來釐清一些概念？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:59:06.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:59:12.362000+08:00","text":"第一個，我們現在正要審的國會改革版本裡面，對說謊官員的處罰是這些國家裡面最低的。","quality":0.865},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:59:14.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:59:22.484000+08:00","text":"第二個，對於人民的部分，其他國家連刑罰都有，但是臺灣，我們現在最新的部分是只有行政罰而沒有刑罰。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:59:23.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:59:39.095000+08:00","text":"我想再請教一下，你知道1993年民進黨其實也推出過國會改革版本，他們裡面的規定是對人民最高可以處七年以下有期徒刑，是對人民喔，不只對官員喔！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:59:40.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:59:53.959000+08:00","text":"我想請問，這樣一個處七年以下有期徒刑的版本，它的罰則對人民比較重，還是今天國民黨、民眾黨的版本人民沒有刑事處罰比較重？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:59:53.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:59:54.519000+08:00","text":"哪一個比較重？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T09:59:55.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T09:59:57.320000+08:00","text":"七年以下的比較重，還是沒有刑事處罰的比較重？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T09:59:59.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:00:01.954000+08:00","text":"報告委員，剛才委員講的那個版本，我沒有……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:00:02.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:00:04.016000+08:00","text":"我只是問你數學問題嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:00:04.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:00:05.997000+08:00","text":"我們針對七年和一年……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:00:06.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:00:08.560000+08:00","text":"七年以下和沒有處罰誰比較重？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:00:09.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:00:10.462000+08:00","text":"當然是七年比較重。對嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:00:11.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:00:24.192000+08:00","text":"所以我在這邊要告訴民進黨造謠的這群人：第一個，刑罰沒有到人民，而在其他幾個民進黨非常想學的民主國家裡面，對於說謊官員的處罰也是最輕的啦！","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:00:25.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:00:33.094000+08:00","text":"民進黨過去的版本甚至罰人民要罰到七年，結果今天可以在這邊謠言指控國民黨。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:00:33.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:00:36.035000+08:00","text":"今天非常謝謝次長，但我不為難你。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:00:37.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:00.684000+08:00","text":"接下來要問到今天我們關切的問題，你知道今年3月媒體才報導一位楊姓男子性侵女網友，警方採集DNA時，發現他涉及三起二十年以前的強盜性侵案，請問次長這時候發現他涉及二十年以前的強盜性侵案該怎麼處理？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:09.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:11.278000+08:00","text":"司法警察會針對這些證據……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:11.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:14.780000+08:00","text":"你直接告訴我，以你的法律專業來講，這個案子最後會怎麼處理？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:15.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:15.901000+08:00","text":"會分案調查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:16.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:16.941000+08:00","text":"分案調查？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:17.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:19.403000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，檢方不起訴啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:24.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:24.506000+08:00","text":"請問次長，為什麼不起訴？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:30.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:37.522000+08:00","text":"如果是三百三十二條的話，追訴期間有到三十年，如果是時效，應該不是裡面的原因吧！","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:37.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:39.023000+08:00","text":"不是原因嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:39.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:40.804000+08:00","text":"請你回去再查一下好不好？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:40.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:42.906000+08:00","text":"我看媒體報導說檢方最後不起訴啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:44.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:01:46.229000+08:00","text":"有時候是沒有證據或者是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:01:46.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:02:05.705000+08:00","text":"我再請問一下次長，事實上到目前為止，針對刑事追訴期，你也知道性侵案被告其實他們跟一般的刑事案被告有一個很大的差別，你知道是什麼差別嗎？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:02:05.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:02:05.905000+08:00","text":"被告是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:02:05.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:02:06.526000+08:00","text":"性侵案的受害者。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:02:14.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:02:20.789000+08:00","text":"這是一個隱密性的，而且常常之間都有朋友或親戚的關係，的確被害人是比較弱勢的。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:02:21.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:02:23.209000+08:00","text":"他也比較不太願意告訴別人。對。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:02:24.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:02:40.937000+08:00","text":"有些研究，比如說澳洲的研究報告指出，性侵的被害者平均要花23.9年才能告訴他人，並且男性揭發的時間通常比女性更久，平均要花25.6年。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:02:42.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:02:53.107000+08:00","text":"換言之，性侵案的受害者其實在法律上的一些狀況跟其他一般刑案受害者是有一些不同的嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:02:53.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:03:15.490000+08:00","text":"有一些私密性的問題，然後他有一些自我的尊嚴受創的問題，所以他們在處理他們自己內心傷痛的時間是比較久的，這也是為什麼今天我們在討論這個案件，有人針對時效的部分認為是不是應該有區別，這一點我覺得法務部可能也不能把它當作一般的刑案來看待，這個你認同嗎？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:03:15.490000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:03:18.420000+08:00","text":"我們認為就具體的犯罪要特別地來制定一些制度要審慎，我們的態度只有這樣，並沒有反對，我們並沒有反對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:03:18.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:03:47.940000+08:00","text":"我講審慎同意啦，但是就是因為審慎，可是像性侵的被害者，我剛剛前面已經講了嘛，你也認同跟其他刑案的被害者，他們願意說出來的情況是不相同的，所以換言之，在時效的部分，我覺得應該就是你所講的，在審慎當中可能要考量其差異性，不是嗎？是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:03:47.940000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:03:51.214500+08:00","text":"有些人被搶被偷可能當場就到警察局報案了，殺人案一發生，當場發現就開始報案偵辦了，只有性侵案可能都要拖個20、30年，被害者才願意講耶！","quality":0.281},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:03:51.214500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:03:54.489000+08:00","text":"所以這是為什麼今天大家希望法務部重新衡量時效的一個很重要的基礎嘛，因此這一點我希望法務部能夠考量。","quality":0.043},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:03:54.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:04:26.843000+08:00","text":"另外，最後我要講，實際上我們知道現在臺灣所謂的性交猥褻被害人人數不斷地上升。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:04:28.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:04:36.827000+08:00","text":"我舉個例子，你知道去年6歲到11歲性交猥褻的被害人有多少人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:04:36.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:04:38.989000+08:00","text":"2023年6到11歲，我告訴你，390人；12到17歲有多少人？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:04:46.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:04:52.973000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，2,037人，你知道警政署從什麼時候開始統計所謂的性交猥褻被害人？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:04:53.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:04:57.637000+08:00","text":"哪一年開始統計的？2002年。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:04:58.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:03.783000+08:00","text":"那我再考你，2002年統計到現在，你知道有史以來最高的紀錄是哪一年？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:03.783000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:07.016400+08:00","text":"這個跟我們推動……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:07.016400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:10.249800+08:00","text":"我知道，你要講說鼓勵大家那個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:10.249800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:13.483200+08:00","text":"對，有差。對嘛。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:13.483200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:16.716600+08:00","text":"可是我跟你講，就算你開始做很多鼓勵之後，實際上最高的是哪一年？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:16.716600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:19.950000+08:00","text":"就是去年啊，沒錯吧？","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:19.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:30.835000+08:00","text":"另外，以未成年數來看的話，未成年性交猥褻被害人數在2015年，每萬位未成年有多少人？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:31.295000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:35.497000+08:00","text":"有5.02人，你知道2023年提高到多少嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:35.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:39.579000+08:00","text":"每萬位有多少未成年性交猥褻的被害人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:41.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:44.141000+08:00","text":"是7.44人，成長1.48倍。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"徐次長錫祥","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:44.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:46.582000+08:00","text":"這跟當時的世界運動有關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:46.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:05:57.643000+08:00","text":"我要跟各位說，我要跟次長說，不管是什麼原因，實際上這些案件數的升高就是法務部要注意的事情，不是嗎？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:05:58.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-27T10:06:11.490000+08:00","text":"因此這是為什麼我們今天才會想到要修法的問題，因為我們看到客觀數字其實是在不斷地飆升跟成長當中，當然我們希望能夠提出一些法制上的修正去改變現狀的問題。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:06:11.990000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:06:36.275714+08:00","text":"所以我覺得你們未必要像過去一般看待性交猥褻被害者的視角跟一般刑案一樣來看待，性交猥褻的被害者在臺灣的案件數不斷升高，是有其案件性質的特殊性，這點希望法務部能夠考慮進去，好不好？是。好。","quality":0.188},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-27T10:06:36.575714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:06:38.290000+08:00","text":"以上，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-27T10:06:38.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-27T10:06:42.304286+08:00","text":"下一位我們請林思銘委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}