{"error":false,"id":["153270"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153270,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153270","日期":"2024-05-29","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-22-14","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":14,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-29T12:06:26+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-29T12:13:04+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:38","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/2c978e04ca5e1331c8e5f61b4020f778d0e137800dc086eac09f7998a2d5a4c15ef64c7febdcaa435ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"12:06:26 - 12:13:04","會議時間":"2024-05-29T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【5月27日及29日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":904,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（12時6分）主席，有請核安會主委，還有經濟部次長。"],["主席：好，我們請主委跟次長，謝謝。"],["陳主任委員東陽：羅委員好。"],["林次長全能：委員好。"],["羅委員智強：請教主委，蔡英文總統要在2025年把核能歸零，目前這個目標還是沒改變嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的，我想跟委員稍微說明一下，核安會是能源安全的主管機關。"],["羅委員智強：沒關係，請問次長核能歸零，目前這個目標沒變吧？"],["林次長全能：是，我們現在是以這樣在處理。"],["羅委員智強：核能要歸零有幾個成功要件，對不對？蔡英文總統的能源配比當中要把核能歸零，主要是再生能源的配比，他希望2025達到多少？"],["林次長全能：20%的發電。"],["羅委員智強：達到了嗎？"],["林次長全能：目前我們推估，大概有差距。"],["羅委員智強：差距多少？現在是多少？"],["林次長全能：我們現在是占發電的9.6%……"],["羅委員智強：10%都不到，對不對？"],["林次長全能：我們推估今年會大概會到13%，後年是2025年，大概會到超過15%，目前還在掌握當中。"],["羅委員智強：所以就短缺5%，要拿什麼來補？"],["林次長全能：事實上，供電還是沒有問題。"],["羅委員智強：這還是先順著理想狀態啦，現在次長答應明年的再生能源要到15%嘛，對不對？"],["林次長全能：對，我們推估。"],["羅委員智強：好啦，明年我們再來檢驗有沒有到15%，因為蔡英文說20%嘛！可見現在已經打了七五折，再看看明年是不是要再繼續打折！請問，那5%的部分要怎麼補？"],["林次長全能：我想我們的電力供應，基本上還有其他的燃煤、燃氣……"],["羅委員智強：就是火力發電嘛！"],["林次長全能：燃氣的機組來支應……"],["羅委員智強：不是燃煤就是燃氣，還有別的選項嗎？"],["林次長全能：目前大概就是……"],["羅委員智強：對嘛！所以為什麼今天賴清德總統說大家都需要供電穩定，所以要推動二次能源轉型，發展多元綠能智慧電網，強化電力系統的韌性；他也提了一個比賴比蔡英文總統更宏偉的目標，他說2030年，跟現在只差6年，他的目標是什麼？再生能源要達到多少？次長知道嗎？"],["林次長全能：我們在推估20……"],["羅委員智強：我說的是賴清德總統的承諾。"],["林次長全能：抱歉，這個部分我不清楚。"],["羅委員智強：我們總統的承諾還是要記住啦！30%啦！請問次長做得到嗎？蔡英文在當選的時候，他說再生能源要到20%，馬政府要結束的時候，再生能源是多少？"],["林次長全能：不到5%。"],["羅委員智強：將近5啦！因為我在馬政府工作過，是將近5啦！從2016年到現在有8年了，也只到9%，大概是將近5；換言之，8年多了5%，現在剩下6年，要從10%變成30%，要多出20%，請問部長，我們有什麼通天本領要做到這件事情？"],["林次長全能：從技術端、專業端的分析，我想跟委員報告，我們這幾年綠能增加很多，但是我們另外一個……"],["羅委員智強：我知道增加很多。"],["林次長全能：我們另外一個無碳的能源，就是核能下來……"],["羅委員智強：所以部長很有信心2030年可以到30%，是不是？"],["林次長全能：是，因為我們基本上……"],["羅委員智強：非常謝謝部長，我肯定你的信心。"],["林次長全能：抱歉，我不是部長，不好意思。"],["羅委員智強：次長啦，我很肯定你的信心，希望你的信心到時候不要跟蔡英文總統一樣打七五折。","接下來要問的是，到底我們現在對於核能政策的態度如何？因為我們的部長郭智輝之前對於核能議題，他跟國發會主委，昨天國發會主委跟媒體聚會時，已經有所表態，如果朝野對核能重啟有共識，他個人並不排斥。所以經濟部現在的態度到底是什麼？核能要不要重啟？核二、核三要不要延役？態度是什麼？"],["林次長全能：我們很明確，有三個很重要的原則……"],["羅委員智強：就是不缺電嘛！"],["林次長全能：不是，首要是核能安全要確保，另外就是核廢料的處理要有妥適的一個解決方案。"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["林次長全能：另外，社會共識也是……"],["羅委員智強：核能安全現在有把握嗎？"],["林次長全能：核能安全是按照相關的規範在進行中，我們完全按照規範在進行。"],["羅委員智強：次長，你們是主管機關，你都答不出答案，這世上還有誰能幫你答答案？台電是誰主管的？"],["林次長全能：是，但是核能安全……"],["羅委員智強：所以現在就應該知道核能安全這個條件做不做得到啊！"],["林次長全能：當然一定做到，因為我們的監管機關就在我旁邊。"],["羅委員智強：那很好啊！所以第一個做到，第二個是什麼？"],["林次長全能：核廢料。"],["羅委員智強：核廢料的部分，目前做不做得到？"],["林次長全能：目前有很複雜、困難的問題。"],["羅委員智強：第三個是什麼？"],["林次長全能：社會的共識。"],["羅委員智強：前兩項裡面，至少第一項操之在你嘛！你認為做得到，對不對？"],["林次長全能：我們一定要做到核能安全。"],["羅委員智強：一定要做到，非常好！謝謝你，也還馬政府或還台電的公道啦！那麼多年來，非核家園重點的核心就是認為你做不到核能安全，不是嗎？謝謝你還了公道！所以我說句實在話，白走八年冤枉路！搞了半天，現在要回頭重新來檢討核能。那也沒關係，亡羊補牢，時猶未晚！我支持賴清德總統跟政府正視能源問題，重新正視重啟核能的問題，包括核二、三延役的問題。如果正式下定，有問題，次長是不是就去解決它？如果啦！"],["林次長全能：我說過，我們現在是按照相關的規定在處理，現在相關的規定……"],["羅委員智強：次長，如果賴清德總統下令，你得使命必達，也不用什麼按照相關規定了，對不對？所以我們就等賴清德總統一聲令下，號令大軍轉彎啦！核電重啟啦！我等著賴清德宣布。謝謝。以上。"],["主席：謝謝各位。","蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員。","今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢，另有吳春城委員、楊瓊瓔委員、翁曉玲委員提出書面質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":396,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-14","speakers":["柯志恩","洪孟楷","葛如鈞","葉元之","洪申翰","陳秀寳","萬美玲","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","林宜瑾","張雅琳","范雲","羅廷瑋","張嘉郡","陳培瑜","張智倫","林倩綺","羅智強","吳春城","楊瓊瓔","翁曉玲"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-05-29"],"gazette_id":"1135201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第14次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽及經濟部次長列席就「展望全球核能發電趨勢，我國核電廠\n延役推動現況暨發展新型核能成為永續能源之規劃」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1135201_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.09721875,"end":13.345343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":13.46346875,"end":15.134093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.289718750000002,"end":19.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.79159375,"end":20.449718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.922218750000003,"end":30.70971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":33.612218750000004,"end":42.10034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.23096875,"end":45.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":46.16721875,"end":50.41971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.41971875,"end":51.010343750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":51.010343750000004,"end":51.02721875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.02721875,"end":51.04409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.17909375,"end":65.08409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":65.79284375,"end":66.34971875000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.34971875000001,"end":66.88971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":66.88971875,"end":66.97409375000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.97409375000001,"end":67.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":68.44221875000001,"end":74.12909375000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":74.21346875,"end":90.00846875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":78.17909375,"end":80.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.00846875,"end":90.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":90.48096875,"end":90.49784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.49784375,"end":90.59909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":90.59909375000001,"end":91.03784375000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":91.03784375000001,"end":91.42596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":92.74221875,"end":92.75909375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.75909375,"end":120.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":94.42971875,"end":95.25659375000001,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":104.95971875000001,"end":105.28034375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":122.66159375000001,"end":128.34846875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":127.20096875,"end":128.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.34846875,"end":132.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":128.38221875000002,"end":130.82909375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.85409375,"end":136.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.15721875,"end":156.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":156.74909375000001,"end":158.89221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.86659375000002,"end":162.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.79034375,"end":166.26659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":166.97534375,"end":173.33721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":174.45096875000002,"end":175.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":175.80096875,"end":176.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":177.79221875000002,"end":190.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.03471875000002,"end":192.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.40159375000002,"end":194.36346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":195.24096875,"end":197.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":197.87346875,"end":198.36284375000002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.36284375000002,"end":199.34159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.23596875,"end":202.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":203.35784375,"end":205.24784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.60221875000002,"end":207.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.81284375,"end":208.09971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.48784375000002,"end":209.53409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":210.39471875,"end":219.94596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":220.35096875000002,"end":234.03659375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":228.68721875000003,"end":229.90221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.03659375,"end":239.28471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":239.28471875000002,"end":242.25471875000002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.53346875000003,"end":254.86034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":243.16596875000002,"end":244.02659375000002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":244.16159375,"end":244.85346875000002,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":255.26534375000003,"end":258.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.79221875,"end":260.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":260.93534375,"end":261.49221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":261.91409375,"end":264.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.20909375,"end":280.34159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":280.40909375,"end":283.61534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":284.30721875,"end":285.03284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":285.79221875,"end":289.48784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":288.77909375,"end":289.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":289.50471875,"end":289.53846875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":289.53846875,"end":289.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":289.97721875,"end":307.71284375000005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.74471875,"end":293.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.76784375,"end":313.14659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":313.80471875,"end":315.49221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.00721875,"end":317.77034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":317.70284375,"end":317.75346875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":317.77034375,"end":321.28034375000004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.06971875,"end":320.20034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":320.35221875,"end":322.52909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":321.29721875,"end":321.31409375000004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":321.87096875000003,"end":321.88784375,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":322.74846875000003,"end":323.03534375000004,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.03534375000004,"end":323.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":323.27159375,"end":323.32221875000005,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.32221875000005,"end":339.25221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":325.11096875000004,"end":325.75221875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":337.49721875,"end":337.96971875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.23096875000005,"end":343.62284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.46659375,"end":350.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":350.91284375000004,"end":376.44471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":376.54596875000004,"end":381.03471875,"speaker_score":0.898},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":381.03471875,"end":396.13784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅委員智強","start":381.77721875000003,"end":382.65471875000003,"speaker_score":0.898}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.137,"end":15.1,"text":"主席有請那個核安會主委還有經濟部次長好我們請主委跟次長謝謝羅委員好請教主委蔡英文總統要在2025年要把核能歸零目前這個目標還是沒改變嗎"},{"start":33.906,"end":48.939,"text":"是的,我想跟委員稍微說明一下核安會是能源安全的主管機關市長,核能歸零目前這個目標沒變吧?是,我們現在是以這樣的一個在處理"},{"start":51.525,"end":65.943,"text":"所以那個核能要歸零他有幾個成功要件對不對蔡英文總統的能源配比當中要把核能歸零那主要是他在再生能源的配比他希望2025達到多少20%的發電達到了嗎"},{"start":68.939,"end":90.98,"text":"目前我們推估大概有差距對有差距 差距多少現在多少我們現在是9.6%發電站發電的9.5%那明年今年會大概會到13%我們推估那後年就2025年大概會到15%超過15%目前還在做掌握當中所以就短缺個5%嘛那拿什麼補"},{"start":92.959,"end":119.568,"text":"這還是先順著理想狀態啦我們現在次長答應明年的再生能源是到15%嘛 對不對我們對推估到15那明年我們再來檢驗有沒有到15因為蔡英文說20嘛可見現在已經打了75折了嘛打了75折那再看看明年是不是要再繼續打折那請問那5%的部分怎麼補啊"},{"start":122.891,"end":135.573,"text":"我想我們的電力供應基本上是還有其他的燃煤或燃氣的一個基礎用火力嗎?不是燃煤就燃氣嗎?還有別的選項嗎?目前大概就是這樣"},{"start":137.256,"end":158.631,"text":"所以為什麼說今天齁賴清德總統說大家都需要供電穩定所以要推動二次能源轉型發展多元綠能智慧電網強化電力系統的韌性那他也提了一個比蔡英文總統更宏偉的目標他說2030年欸2030年現在只差6年對不對他的目標是什麼戰勝能源要達到多少你知道嗎市長我說賴清德總統的承諾"},{"start":167.268,"end":190.3,"text":"這個部分抱歉我不清楚我們總統的承諾還是要記住啊百分之三十請問次長做得到嗎你到明年我們蔡英文在提出這個在當選的時候他說要這個戰勝能源到20%可是在當時馬政府的結束的時候戰勝能源是多少不到5%將近5%啦"},{"start":195.325,"end":219.765,"text":"因為我是在馬政府工作過,將近5啦那結果從2016年到現在8年你也只到9%,9%嘛對不對,大概將近5啦所以換言之8年多5%現在剩下6年你要從10變30要多20%來,請問部長我們有什麼通天本理要做到這件事情"},{"start":221.207,"end":246.132,"text":"我想這個從技術端專業端的分析我跟委員報告我們這幾年綠能增加很多但是我們另外一個我知道增加很多那我們另外一個無碳的能源就是核能下來所以部長你也很有信心2030年可以到30%是不是是因為我們非常謝謝部長我肯定你的信心我不是部長不好意思次長我很肯定你的信心"},{"start":247.672,"end":261.052,"text":"希望不要你的信心跟蔡英文總統一樣打七五折到時候那接下來我就要問到底現在我們對於這個核能的政策態度是如何因為"},{"start":261.994,"end":284.794,"text":"郭志輝我們的部長之前他說對於核能議題他跟國發會主委昨天國發會主委也跟媒體聚會時已經說表態如果朝野對核能重啓有共識他個人並不排斥所以經濟部到底現在態度是什麼核能要不要重啓核二核三要不要延役態度是什麼"},{"start":285.836,"end":312.928,"text":"我們很明確有三個很重要的原則就是不缺電嘛不是 首要是核能安全要確保另外一個部分就是核廢料的處理要有妥適的一個解決方案那當然另外社會共識也是那核能安全現在有把握嗎這可能我們按照核能安全是按照相關的規範在進行中市長你是主管機關你都答不出答案這事實上還誰能幫你答答案啊台電誰主管的啊"},{"start":314.274,"end":343.406,"text":"所以現在就應該知道 核能安全這個條件做不做得到啊當然一定做到 因為我們的監管 很好所以第一個做到 第二個是什麼核廢料核廢料做不做得到目前目前有很複雜困難的問題第三個是什麼社會的共識社會的共識嘛 前兩項其實至少第一項操之在你嘛你認為做得到 對不對我們一定要做到一定要做到 非常好謝謝你啦 也還馬政府或還台電的公道啦"},{"start":344.554,"end":361.479,"text":"那麼多年的非核家園的認證的重點核心就是認為你做不到核能安全不是嗎?謝謝你還了公道所以我是說句實在話白走八年冤枉路了搞了半天回頭現在要重新來檢討核能但沒有關係王洋補牢石油未完"},{"start":362.239,"end":380.82,"text":"我支持今天我們戴金德總統跟政府正式能源問題重新正式重啓核能的問題包括核二核三延役的問題有困難如果正式下定次長是不是就去解決它如果啦如果啦我說過我們現在按照相關的規定在做處理那現在相關的規定"},{"start":381.761,"end":389.892,"text":"其實我跟你講如果賴清德總統下令你也不用什麼按照相當規定的你也得使命必達嘛 對不對所以我們就等賴清德總統一聲令下號令大軍轉彎啦 核電重啟啦我等著賴清德宣布 謝謝 以上"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:06:34.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:06:39.480000+08:00","text":"主席，有請核安會主委，還有經濟部次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-29T12:06:39.480000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:06:39.960000+08:00","text":"好，我們請主委跟次長，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員東陽","start":"2024-05-29T12:06:39.960000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:06:39.980000+08:00","text":"羅委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:06:39.980000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:06:40.980000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:06:40+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:06:41.100000+08:00","text":"請教主委，蔡英文總統要在2025年把核能歸零，目前這個目標還是沒改變嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員東陽","start":"2024-05-29T12:06:59.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:07.673000+08:00","text":"是的，我想跟委員稍微說明一下，核安會是能源安全的主管機關。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:09.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:11.456000+08:00","text":"沒關係，請問次長核能歸零，目前這個目標沒變吧？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:12.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:14.919000+08:00","text":"是，我們現在是以這樣在處理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:18.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:23.232000+08:00","text":"核能要歸零有幾個成功要件，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:23.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:30.882000+08:00","text":"蔡英文總統的能源配比當中要把核能歸零，主要是再生能源的配比，他希望2025達到多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:31.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:31.823000+08:00","text":"20%的發電。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:31.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:31.943000+08:00","text":"達到了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:34.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:38.423000+08:00","text":"目前我們推估，大概有差距。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:39.344000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:39.784000+08:00","text":"差距多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:41.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:41.506000+08:00","text":"現在是多少？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:42.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:46.190000+08:00","text":"我們現在是占發電的9.6%……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:46.190000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:47.190000+08:00","text":"10%都不到，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:47.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:54.118000+08:00","text":"我們推估今年會大概會到13%，後年是2025年，大概會到超過15%，目前還在掌握當中。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:54.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:56.980000+08:00","text":"所以就短缺5%，要拿什麼來補？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:56.980000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:07:58.959000+08:00","text":"事實上，供電還是沒有問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:07:58.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:10.503000+08:00","text":"這還是先順著理想狀態啦，現在次長答應明年的再生能源要到15%嘛，對不對？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:10.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:11.603000+08:00","text":"對，我們推估。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:13.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:17.205000+08:00","text":"好啦，明年我們再來檢驗有沒有到15%，因為蔡英文說20%嘛！","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:18.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:23.927000+08:00","text":"可見現在已經打了七五折，再看看明年是不是要再繼續打折！","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:24.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:25.548000+08:00","text":"請問，那5%的部分要怎麼補？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:28.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:34.160000+08:00","text":"我想我們的電力供應，基本上還有其他的燃煤、燃氣……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:34.160000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:35.160000+08:00","text":"就是火力發電嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:35.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:35.523000+08:00","text":"燃氣的機組來支應……","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:37.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:40.672000+08:00","text":"不是燃煤就是燃氣，還有別的選項嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:40.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:08:41.553000+08:00","text":"目前大概就是……對嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:08:43.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:03.951000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼今天賴清德總統說大家都需要供電穩定，所以要推動二次能源轉型，發展多元綠能智慧電網，強化電力系統的韌性；他也提了一個比賴比蔡英文總統更宏偉的目標，他說2030年，跟現在只差6年，他的目標是什麼？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:03.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:04.171000+08:00","text":"再生能源要達到多少？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:04.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:04.331000+08:00","text":"次長知道嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:04.331000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:05.331000+08:00","text":"我們在推估20……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:04.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:04.631000+08:00","text":"我說的是賴清德總統的承諾。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:13.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:14.249000+08:00","text":"抱歉，這個部分我不清楚。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:15.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:17.510000+08:00","text":"我們總統的承諾還是要記住啦！30%啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:20.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:23.854000+08:00","text":"請問次長做得到嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:25.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:36.080000+08:00","text":"蔡英文在當選的時候，他說再生能源要到20%，馬政府要結束的時候，再生能源是多少？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:36.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:36.260000+08:00","text":"不到5%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:36.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:36.280000+08:00","text":"將近5啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:41.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:09:43.427000+08:00","text":"因為我在馬政府工作過，是將近5啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:09:47.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:05.745000+08:00","text":"從2016年到現在有8年了，也只到9%，大概是將近5；換言之，8年多了5%，現在剩下6年，要從10%變成30%，要多出20%，請問部長，我們有什麼通天本領要做到這件事情？","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:08.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:14.689000+08:00","text":"從技術端、專業端的分析，我想跟委員報告，我們這幾年綠能增加很多，但是我們另外一個……","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:14.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:15.549000+08:00","text":"我知道增加很多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:16.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:19.369000+08:00","text":"我們另外一個無碳的能源，就是核能下來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:19.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:24.930000+08:00","text":"所以部長很有信心2030年可以到30%，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:25.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:26.911000+08:00","text":"是，因為我們基本上……","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:26.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:29.291000+08:00","text":"非常謝謝部長，我肯定你的信心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:29.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:30.391000+08:00","text":"抱歉，我不是部長，不好意思。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:30.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:36.997000+08:00","text":"次長啦，我很肯定你的信心，希望你的信心到時候不要跟蔡英文總統一樣打七五折。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:39.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:10:45.951000+08:00","text":"接下來要問的是，到底我們現在對於核能政策的態度如何？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:10:47.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:03.648000+08:00","text":"因為我們的部長郭智輝之前對於核能議題，他跟國發會主委，昨天國發會主委跟媒體聚會時，已經有所表態，如果朝野對核能重啟有共識，他個人並不排斥。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:04.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:06.631000+08:00","text":"所以經濟部現在的態度到底是什麼？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:06.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:07.291000+08:00","text":"核能要不要重啟？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:08.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:09.293000+08:00","text":"核二、核三要不要延役？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:10.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:10.794000+08:00","text":"態度是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:11.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:14.837000+08:00","text":"我們很明確，有三個很重要的原則……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:14.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:15.818000+08:00","text":"就是不缺電嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:16.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:23.061000+08:00","text":"不是，首要是核能安全要確保，另外就是核廢料的處理要有妥適的一個解決方案。對。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:24.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:25.622000+08:00","text":"另外，社會共識也是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:25.822000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:28.043000+08:00","text":"核能安全現在有把握嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:29.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:32.085000+08:00","text":"核能安全是按照相關的規範在進行中，我們完全按照規範在進行。","quality":0.593},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:32.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:37.427000+08:00","text":"次長，你們是主管機關，你都答不出答案，這世上還有誰能幫你答答案？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:38.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:38.788000+08:00","text":"台電是誰主管的？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:38.788000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:40.274000+08:00","text":"是，但是核能安全……","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:40.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:43.515000+08:00","text":"所以現在就應該知道核能安全這個條件做不做得到啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:43.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:45.236000+08:00","text":"當然一定做到，因為我們的監管機關就在我旁邊。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:45.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:45.556000+08:00","text":"那很好啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:46.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:48.798000+08:00","text":"所以第一個做到，第二個是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:48.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:49.018000+08:00","text":"核廢料。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:49.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:50.498000+08:00","text":"核廢料的部分，目前做不做得到？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:51.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:53.840000+08:00","text":"目前有很複雜、困難的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:53.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:55.180000+08:00","text":"第三個是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:55.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:56.081000+08:00","text":"社會的共識。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:11:57.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:11:59.822000+08:00","text":"前兩項裡面，至少第一項操之在你嘛！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:00.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:02.063000+08:00","text":"你認為做得到，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:02.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:02.683000+08:00","text":"我們一定要做到核能安全。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:03.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:04.964000+08:00","text":"一定要做到，非常好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:06.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:09.386000+08:00","text":"謝謝你，也還馬政府或還台電的公道啦！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:10.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:17.376000+08:00","text":"那麼多年來，非核家園重點的核心就是認為你做不到核能安全，不是嗎？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:17.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:18.036000+08:00","text":"謝謝你還了公道！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:18.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:22.137000+08:00","text":"所以我說句實在話，白走八年冤枉路！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:22.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:24.678000+08:00","text":"搞了半天，現在要回頭重新來檢討核能。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:24.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:27.259000+08:00","text":"那也沒關係，亡羊補牢，時猶未晚！","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:28.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:37.730000+08:00","text":"我支持賴清德總統跟政府正視能源問題，重新正視重啟核能的問題，包括核二、三延役的問題。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:38.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:40.833000+08:00","text":"如果正式下定，有問題，次長是不是就去解決它？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:41.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:41.694000+08:00","text":"如果啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林次長全能","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:43.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:46.800000+08:00","text":"我說過，我們現在是按照相關的規定在處理，現在相關的規定……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:48.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:53.629000+08:00","text":"次長，如果賴清德總統下令，你得使命必達，也不用什麼按照相關規定了，對不對？","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:53.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:54.850000+08:00","text":"所以我們就等賴清德總統一聲令下，號令大軍轉彎啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:54.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:55.031000+08:00","text":"核電重啟啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:55.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:55.872000+08:00","text":"我等著賴清德宣布。謝謝。以上。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:56.372000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:12:57.514857+08:00","text":"謝謝各位。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-29T12:12:57.814857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:13:02.100571+08:00","text":"蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-29T12:13:02.400571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:13:06.686286+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-29T12:13:06.986286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-29T12:13:17.843429+08:00","text":"今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢，另有吳春城委員、楊瓊瓔委員、翁曉玲委員提出書面質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}