{"error":false,"id":["153328"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153328,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153328","日期":"2024-05-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-30T09:59:23+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-30T10:11:54+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:31","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aebab046626107a0d418ea2e07370b40154bbeba37a180c9b1cdb63d252e14d10cbe5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王育敏","委員發言時間":"09:59:23 - 10:11:54","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：審查\n一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案。\n二、委員馬文君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n六、委員王育敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案。\n七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第七案，如經復議，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":346,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時59分）好，謝謝主席，我們有請呂次長。"],["主席：請呂次長。"],["王委員育敏：次長好。"],["呂次長建德：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：次長，先恭喜你擔任政務次長，今天討論有關於老人福利法的修正，剛剛也聽到你很多的想法跟意見，但是我要先讓次長看一下，就是說現在的健保費簡直就是一國多制，每一個縣市處理65歲以上老人健保費的方式其實都不太一樣，這個表你可以看一下，有的縣市是採20%以下，就是65歲以上的老人都可以享有健保費的補助，離島是中央全額補助，基隆市是65歲以上通通都可以免繳健保費，有的縣市是採5%以下。所以你可以看到臺灣是一國多制，可以看到這樣子的一個……如果我們把它視為是社會福利的一環的話，可以這樣嗎？因為老人家所處的縣市不同，使他享有的福利、資源、待遇不同，這個有符合公平的原則嗎？"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員對於本案的關心，我想大概有三個重點，第一個就是全民健保，它是屬於社會保險的一種，社會保險事實上是量能付費、風險分擔，並且各盡所能、各取所需……"],["王委員育敏：次長，你可以不用再講學理，我就讓你看到現況，現在就是一國多制，請問你要怎麼處理？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我剛剛已經報告了，目前70歲以上低收、中低收最需要的是全部由本部來補助，我們每年以10億來幫助，所以事實上是全國一致的。"],["王委員育敏：我跟你說65歲啊！65歲到69歲就不一致啊！攤開事實就是這麼明顯嘛！你們作為中央主管機關，要怎麼來處理這一塊呢？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，有關65歲到69歲的部分，事實上我們就是看各地方政府以目前的財力，由他們自己來……但現在最重要的就是必要性的問題……"],["王委員育敏：這個就是現在不公平嘛！我們看到不同縣市有很明顯的差異。另外一個，在大選之前，總統候選人侯友宜跟柯文哲，他們都拋出來的是65歲以上免繳健保費，當時衛福部部長薛瑞元，他因為看到其他兩黨的總統候選人有提出來，所以他也跟鄭文燦副院長開了一個會，考慮要針對第六類的109萬人來研議補助方式，請問你們的政策有延續嗎？你有被交辦這個政策要繼續辦下去嗎？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，第六類是屬於地區，就我的瞭解，當時薛部長跟鄭副院長所說的是第六類裡面的低收、中低收部分。"],["王委員育敏：有109萬人，有嗎？"],["呂次長建德：沒有。"],["王委員育敏：對啊！這個是媒體報導的喔！次長，你接收到的訊息怎麼落差這麼大呢？"],["呂次長建德：沒有……"],["王委員育敏：他說他針對109萬人每月全額補助健保費826元，粗估要編100億的公務預算支應，而且去年講詳細的補助方案會出爐，明年正式上路，這個是新聞媒體報導的。你作為政務次長，你完全沒有接收到任何訊息？在交接的時候有沒有交接到這項政策？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我收到的是就是剛剛所說的，就是第六類裡面的低收、中低收部分。"],["王委員育敏：低收、中低收你們不是老早就有在補助了嗎？"],["呂次長建德：我們是針對弱勢的部分。"],["王委員育敏：這一則新聞是怎麼回事？不認帳了？就是反正薛部長也走了。"],["呂次長建德：沒有，報告委員，我們目前當然……"],["王委員育敏：我就問你，這項方案還在不在？要多編100億的公務預算來補助109萬65歲以上的長者，這一個政策還在不在？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，據我瞭解，薛部長當時交接，那時還只是說我們會來研議，我們是研議這一個……"],["王委員育敏：是誰要研議？你要研議？"],["呂次長建德：對，我們這邊當然會來研議，但我還是必須要澄清，我們當時是說……"],["王委員育敏：這個是對媒體公開講的。"],["呂次長建德：是針對地區裡面的低收跟中低收部分。"],["王委員育敏：你們新政府上來之後否定了前朝，那你們預計要新增加多少人？他們之前承諾大家是有100萬人喔！100億的公務預算，請問新的賴政府是要擴大補助多少人、多少預算？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，當時我們只是說會來加強，就是不管怎麼樣，我們一定是對於弱勢的照顧。"],["王委員育敏：你看你們現在又全盤否定了嘛！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，沒有。"],["王委員育敏：這個是媒體報導的，大家回去查，2023年9月6號各大媒體都有、每一個媒體都有，而且是薛部長跟鄭文燦副院長很緊急開完會之後對外拍板，說得非常地清楚，就是100億的規模。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，因為我必須要澄清，第六類……"],["王委員育敏：那次長也可以講說你們全盤否定了，就是……"],["呂次長建德：沒有、沒有，報告委員，我們都是一致的。"],["王委員育敏：反正蔡政府已經結束了，賴政府就是沒有要認這項政策就對了，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我們的這一個政策一定是延續的，但是我現在必須要澄清，就是第六類……"],["王委員育敏：那你的規模告訴本席啊！是多少人、多少預算？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，所以我說我們目前在研議啊！"],["王委員育敏：他當時是100億啊！"],["呂次長建德：我們目前在研議當中啊！"],["王委員育敏：預計多少？"],["呂次長建德：因為第六類是屬於地區人口，地區人口老實說就是剛剛說的，其實有些長輩可能年輕經商得宜等等，他也……"],["王委員育敏：所以你們根本沒有認真在研議嘛！"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我們非常認真，這一個部分……"],["王委員育敏：今天到委員會其實還報告不出來嘛！這一個部分待會進入逐條的時候還可以再討論，但是我只是要提醒，執政不要信口開河，給選民的承諾，不要選前講一套，選後都忘光光，其實老人票也不是這麼好騙的，之前說要給將近100萬的老人多增加健保的補助，結果當選之後當作沒有這回事。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員……"],["王委員育敏：我想選民也是不能接受的。"],["呂次長建德：我們是絕對不會這樣的。"],["王委員育敏：另外，我要問有關永豐化學的問題，永豐化學缺藥其實也是非常嚴重的問題，我們看到這個就是食藥署嚴重的失靈跟失責，現在導致醫院有關於生理食鹽水都是嚴重缺貨，整個的缺口，永豐在生理食鹽水的產能是一個月196萬瓶，市占七成，當它關廠以後，每個月的短缺高達84萬瓶。你們現在為了緊急生產，針對相關可以生產的工廠，勞動部還發文取消加班工時的限制，就是要勞工爆肝來幫忙增加產能，你們要勞工也進來一起加班，那我就問，現在你們的產能可以增加到多少？缺額還有多少？"],["吳副組長明美：報告委員，食藥署藥品組報告，永豐在停工之前所供應的臨床藥品一共有20項，食藥署其實在事件的第一時間就針對這些藥品去尋找國內有許可證的合格廠商來取代這些臨床上面的缺口，有14項藥品國內的廠商都可以接得上來，其中有4項的藥品永豐公司至少有兩個月以上的庫存，我們有徵求專案進口以及專案製造。最近大家比較關切的是沖洗用及注射用的生理食鹽水部分，我們除了請國內的廠商增加產能之外，也尋求專案製造以及專案輸入，目前已經有尋求到專案輸入的廠商，在6月10號以前就會有第一批的生理食鹽水從國外輸入。"],["王委員育敏：數量是多少？"],["吳副組長明美：6月初的第一批就會有二十多萬袋的生理食鹽水。"],["王委員育敏：落差還有多少？"],["吳副組長明美：其實加上永豐原本的一些庫存以及我們專案輸入的數量，6、7月是不會有問題的，數量是足夠的。"],["王委員育敏：7月以後呢？"],["吳副組長明美：目前廠商所提報上來的數字，到10月之前，專案輸入廠商跟國內產能所加起來的數字是可以符合臨床上面的需求。"],["王委員育敏：所以你們保證不會缺貨？不會有醫院有短缺的問題？敢保證嗎？"],["吳副組長明美：食藥署在5月底有請廠商緊急建置一個系統，然後我們這兩天就有發文給醫院相關的公協會，請醫療機構在6月初、5月底上去填報每週相關的需求量，我們會有每週供應的機制，確保臨床端的藥品需求不會有短缺的情形。"],["王委員育敏：這件事其實非常離譜，整個衛福部沒有事先預警，也沒有預判，然後造成這樣一個短缺的情況，沒有讓相關的廠商、勞工獲得保障，把他們加班的時數上限給取消掉，犧牲勞工的時間來彌補你們的過失，這個是非常離譜的。另外一個問題，你們現在的專案是不是用3倍的價格？"],["吳副組長明美：專案輸入價格的部分，昨天健保署有依照程序召開共擬會，然後跟廠商討論議價之後的結果，詳細的藥品價格健保署這邊比較清楚，剛剛……"],["王委員育敏：你們不清楚？今天要來開會，本席已經有提醒，你們還不清楚？媒體不是說多了高達3倍的價格嗎？你們不清楚，媒體都清楚。"],["李副署長丞華：目前專案進口因為要讓它快速，所以我們大概用2到3倍的價格。"],["王委員育敏：是啊，所以你看，這一次因為整個衛福部的疏失，讓我們又要花費更多的公帑，剛剛次長還說什麼財政永續，人民的稅收要用在刀口上，請問這是刀口上嗎？這是因為疏失，你要用3倍的價格，然後讓廠商來買，另外還要勞工去加更多班，還要取消現在勞基法對他的保障，我覺得這一個專案之後一定要要求衛福部澈澈底底的檢討，而且也不允許未來再發生這樣的事情，浪費國家公帑，還要犧牲勞工的工時來彌補這個過失，這個是未來不可以再發生的事情，謝謝。"],["主席（王委員育敏）：接下來請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-19","speakers":["王育敏","許宇甄","張嘉郡","陳昭姿","林月琴","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","黃健豪","張智倫","李彥秀","林淑芬","楊瓊瓔","陳瑩","劉建國","徐欣瑩","楊曜","陳菁徽","盧縣一","涂權吉","蘇清泉"],"page_start":149,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135501","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135501_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查一、委員許宇甄等22人擬具「老人福利法增訂第二十二條之一條文草案」案；二、委員馬文\n君等16人擬具「老人福利法第二十五條條文修正草案」案；三、委員張嘉郡等20人擬具「老人福\n利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；四、國民黨黨團擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草\n案」案；五、委員黃健豪等17人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；六、委員王育\n敏等19人擬具「老人福利法第二十二條條文修正草案」案；七、台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「老人福利\n法第二十二條及第二十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1135501_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"王委員育敏","start":7.7428437500000005,"end":10.645343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﹏另外一個我要問的是有關有風化學的問題。 ﹏有風化學這個部分缺藥其實也是非常嚴重的問題。 ﹏我們看到這個就是食藥署嚴重的失靈跟失責。 ﹏那現在導致這個醫院有關於這一些生理食鹽水這個都是嚴重的缺貨。 ﹏我們看到下一張圖。 ﹏這個整個的缺口"},{"start":459.451,"end":471.145,"text":"因為永豐他生理食鹽水的產能一個月是196萬瓶他占了市占的七成當他關廠以後你每個月的短缺是高達84萬瓶請問你們現在為了這個緊急生產"},{"start":479.547,"end":506.72,"text":"還讓這個相關的這一些可以生產的工廠,你們還行為要勞動部發文喔。就是取消這個加班工時的限制。要勞工就是報竿來幫忙增加產能。好。你們要勞工也進來一起加班。那我就問現在的你們增加的產能可以增加到多少?缺額還有多少?"},{"start":512.584,"end":528.258,"text":"報告委員,食藥署藥品組這邊報告。那有關於永豐在停工之前呢,他有供應臨床的藥品一共有20項。那我們食藥署呢,其實在事件的第一時間,就針對這些藥品去尋找國內有許可證、廠商合格的一個"},{"start":529.125,"end":555.113,"text":"來取代這些臨床上面的缺口。有十四項的藥品呢,國內的廠商都可以接得上來。那其中有四項的藥品的部分呢,永豐公司這邊至少有兩個月以上的庫存。我們有徵求這個專案進口以及專案製造的部分。那最近大家比較關切的是生理食鹽水沖洗用以及注射用的部分。我們除了請國內的廠商來增加產能之外呢,"},{"start":555.731,"end":576.287,"text":"也尋求這個專案製造以及專案的輸入。那目前已經有尋求到專案輸入的廠商。在六月十號以前呢,就會有第一批的這個生理食鹽水從國外的來輸入。數量是多少?那第一批的話,就是六月初第一批的話,就會有20多萬袋的生理食鹽水。那你落差還多少?"},{"start":577.093,"end":604.78,"text":"那其實加上永豐的原本的一些庫存還有我們專案數量的話六、七月的話是不會有問題的數量是足夠的那七月以後呢?七月以後呢目前廠商所提報上來的數字到十月之前呢專案輸入的廠商跟國內的產能的話加起來的數字是可以符合臨床上面的一個需求所以你們保證不會缺貨?不會有醫院有短缺的問題?"},{"start":606.072,"end":606.172,"text":"﹚王育敏﹚"},{"start":628.385,"end":653.017,"text":"要品的需求不會有短缺的一個情形。這件事其實是非常離譜,就是整個衛福部沒有事先的預警,也沒有預判,然後造成這樣的一個短缺的情況,然後還要這個相關的廠商,要這些勞工就是沒有獲得保障,把他的加班的時數上限給取消掉。"},{"start":654.319,"end":662.603,"text":"這個是犧牲勞工的時間來彌補你們的過失這個是非常離譜的另外一個你們現在的專案是不是三倍的價格專案輸入的價格的部分是昨天健保署有依照程序召開共理會然後跟廠商討論溢價之後的一個結果那詳細的藥品價格的數字的話健保署這邊比較清楚你怎麼不清楚今天要來開會本期已經有提醒"},{"start":683.561,"end":688.072,"text":"你們還不清楚媒體不是說是多了高達三倍的價格嗎?你們不清楚媒體都清楚"},{"start":693.877,"end":714.204,"text":"目前專案進口因為要讓他快速所以我們大概用到兩到三倍的價格是啊所以你看這一次整個的衛福部的疏失我們又要更多的公帑剛剛次長還說這個大家的這個財政永續啊人民的稅收啊要用在這個刀口上啊請問這是刀口上嗎這是因為疏失你要用三倍的價格然後讓廠商來買"},{"start":719.446,"end":744.538,"text":"另外還要勞工就是讓他們去加更多班還要取消現在我們勞基法對他的保障我覺得這一個專案之後一定要要求衛福部徹徹底底的檢討而且也不允許未來還發生這樣的事情是浪費國家公帑還要犧牲勞工的這一個工時然後來彌補這一個過失這個是未來不可以再發生的事情喔好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T09:59:30.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T09:59:32.700000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主席，我們有請呂次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-30T09:59:32.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T09:59:32.740000+08:00","text":"請呂次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T09:59:32.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T09:59:32.740000+08:00","text":"次長好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T09:59:32.740000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T09:59:33.740000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T09:59:32.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:00:38.418000+08:00","text":"次長，先恭喜你擔任政務次長，今天討論有關於老人福利法的修正，剛剛也聽到你很多的想法跟意見，但是我要先讓次長看一下，就是說現在的健保費簡直就是一國多制，每一個縣市處理65歲以上老人健保費的方式其實都不太一樣，這個表你可以看一下，有的縣市是採20%以下，就是65歲以上的老人都可以享有健保費的補助，離島是中央全額補助，基隆市是65歲以上通通都可以免繳健保費，有的縣市是採5%以下。","quality":0.861},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:00:38.418000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:00:54.535500+08:00","text":"所以你可以看到臺灣是一國多制，可以看到這樣子的一個……如果我們把它視為是社會福利的一環的話，可以這樣嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:00:54.535500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:01:10.653000+08:00","text":"因為老人家所處的縣市不同，使他享有的福利、資源、待遇不同，這個有符合公平的原則嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:01:10.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:01:26.650000+08:00","text":"非常感謝委員對於本案的關心，我想大概有三個重點，第一個就是全民健保，它是屬於社會保險的一種，社會保險事實上是量能付費、風險分擔，並且各盡所能、各取所需……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:01:27.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:01:33.195000+08:00","text":"次長，你可以不用再講學理，我就讓你看到現況，現在就是一國多制，請問你要怎麼處理？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:01:33.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:01:46.686000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我剛剛已經報告了，目前70歲以上低收、中低收最需要的是全部由本部來補助，我們每年以10億來幫助，所以事實上是全國一致的。","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:01:47.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:01:48.746000+08:00","text":"我跟你說65歲啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:01:49.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:01:51.067000+08:00","text":"65歲到69歲就不一致啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:01:52.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:01:53.808000+08:00","text":"攤開事實就是這麼明顯嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:01:54.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:01:57.028000+08:00","text":"你們作為中央主管機關，要怎麼來處理這一塊呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:01:57.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:02:11.352000+08:00","text":"報告委員，有關65歲到69歲的部分，事實上我們就是看各地方政府以目前的財力，由他們自己來……但現在最重要的就是必要性的問題……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:02:11.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:02:12.772000+08:00","text":"這個就是現在不公平嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:02:13.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:02:16.113000+08:00","text":"我們看到不同縣市有很明顯的差異。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:02:16.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:02:48.992000+08:00","text":"另外一個，在大選之前，總統候選人侯友宜跟柯文哲，他們都拋出來的是65歲以上免繳健保費，當時衛福部部長薛瑞元，他因為看到其他兩黨的總統候選人有提出來，所以他也跟鄭文燦副院長開了一個會，考慮要針對第六類的109萬人來研議補助方式，請問你們的政策有延續嗎？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:02:48.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:02:52.774000+08:00","text":"你有被交辦這個政策要繼續辦下去嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:02:52.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:00.398000+08:00","text":"報告委員，第六類是屬於地區，就我的瞭解，當時薛部長跟鄭副院長所說的是第六類裡面的低收、中低收部分。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:02.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:06.656000+08:00","text":"有109萬人，有嗎？沒有。對啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:07.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:08.577000+08:00","text":"這個是媒體報導的喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:09.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:11.919000+08:00","text":"次長，你接收到的訊息怎麼落差這麼大呢？沒有……","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:12.800000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:34.296000+08:00","text":"他說他針對109萬人每月全額補助健保費826元，粗估要編100億的公務預算支應，而且去年講詳細的補助方案會出爐，明年正式上路，這個是新聞媒體報導的。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:35.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:37.757000+08:00","text":"你作為政務次長，你完全沒有接收到任何訊息？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:38.097000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:40.719000+08:00","text":"在交接的時候有沒有交接到這項政策？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:41.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:46.361000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我收到的是就是剛剛所說的，就是第六類裡面的低收、中低收部分。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:48.982000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:53.324000+08:00","text":"低收、中低收你們不是老早就有在補助了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:53.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:55.345000+08:00","text":"我們是針對弱勢的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:56.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:58.247000+08:00","text":"這一則新聞是怎麼回事？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:03:59.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:03:59.997000+08:00","text":"不認帳了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:00.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:02.379000+08:00","text":"就是反正薛部長也走了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:02.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:04.240000+08:00","text":"沒有，報告委員，我們目前當然……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:06.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:07.961000+08:00","text":"我就問你，這項方案還在不在？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:08.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:09.742000+08:00","text":"要多編100億的公務預算來補助109萬65歲以上的長者，這一個政策還在不在？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:18.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:25.594000+08:00","text":"報告委員，據我瞭解，薛部長當時交接，那時還只是說我們會來研議，我們是研議這一個……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:25.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:26.154000+08:00","text":"是誰要研議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:26.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:28.076000+08:00","text":"你要研議？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:28.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:32.039000+08:00","text":"對，我們這邊當然會來研議，但我還是必須要澄清，我們當時是說……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:32.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:34.401000+08:00","text":"這個是對媒體公開講的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:34.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:39.005000+08:00","text":"是針對地區裡面的低收跟中低收部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:40.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:46.074000+08:00","text":"你們新政府上來之後否定了前朝，那你們預計要新增加多少人？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:46.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:48.897000+08:00","text":"他們之前承諾大家是有100萬人喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:49.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:04:56.427000+08:00","text":"100億的公務預算，請問新的賴政府是要擴大補助多少人、多少預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:04:57.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:04.590000+08:00","text":"報告委員，當時我們只是說會來加強，就是不管怎麼樣，我們一定是對於弱勢的照顧。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:04.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:06.671000+08:00","text":"你看你們現在又全盤否定了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:06.671000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:07.671000+08:00","text":"報告委員，沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:07.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:24.156000+08:00","text":"這個是媒體報導的，大家回去查，2023年9月6號各大媒體都有、每一個媒體都有，而且是薛部長跟鄭文燦副院長很緊急開完會之後對外拍板，說得非常地清楚，就是100億的規模。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:25.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:26.904000+08:00","text":"報告委員，因為我必須要澄清，第六類……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:28.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:30.885000+08:00","text":"那次長也可以講說你們全盤否定了，就是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:30.885000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:31.885000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，報告委員，我們都是一致的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:31.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:37.348000+08:00","text":"反正蔡政府已經結束了，賴政府就是沒有要認這項政策就對了，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:37.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:41.470000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們的這一個政策一定是延續的，但是我現在必須要澄清，就是第六類……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:41.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:42.750000+08:00","text":"那你的規模告訴本席啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:43.170000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:44.411000+08:00","text":"是多少人、多少預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:45.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:47.553000+08:00","text":"報告委員，所以我說我們目前在研議啊！","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:47.553000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:48.553000+08:00","text":"他當時是100億啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:47.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:48.813000+08:00","text":"我們目前在研議當中啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:49.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:49.494000+08:00","text":"預計多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:51.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:05:58.760000+08:00","text":"因為第六類是屬於地區人口，地區人口老實說就是剛剛說的，其實有些長輩可能年輕經商得宜等等，他也……","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:05:59.140000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:06:00.541000+08:00","text":"所以你們根本沒有認真在研議嘛！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:06:00.541000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:06:01.541000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們非常認真，這一個部分……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:06:00.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:06:01.001000+08:00","text":"今天到委員會其實還報告不出來嘛！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:06:07.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:06:32.719000+08:00","text":"這一個部分待會進入逐條的時候還可以再討論，但是我只是要提醒，執政不要信口開河，給選民的承諾，不要選前講一套，選後都忘光光，其實老人票也不是這麼好騙的，之前說要給將近100萬的老人多增加健保的補助，結果當選之後當作沒有這回事。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:06:32.719000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:06:33.719000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:06:33.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:06:35.321000+08:00","text":"我想選民也是不能接受的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"呂次長建德","start":"2024-05-30T10:06:35.321000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:06:36.321000+08:00","text":"我們是絕對不會這樣的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:06:35.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:07:13.604000+08:00","text":"另外，我要問有關永豐化學的問題，永豐化學缺藥其實也是非常嚴重的問題，我們看到這個就是食藥署嚴重的失靈跟失責，現在導致醫院有關於生理食鹽水都是嚴重缺貨，整個的缺口，永豐在生理食鹽水的產能是一個月196萬瓶，市占七成，當它關廠以後，每個月的短缺高達84萬瓶。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:07:13.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:07:48.380000+08:00","text":"你們現在為了緊急生產，針對相關可以生產的工廠，勞動部還發文取消加班工時的限制，就是要勞工爆肝來幫忙增加產能，你們要勞工也進來一起加班，那我就問，現在你們的產能可以增加到多少？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:07:48.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:07:49.700000+08:00","text":"缺額還有多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳副組長明美","start":"2024-05-30T10:07:55.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:08:29.150000+08:00","text":"報告委員，食藥署藥品組報告，永豐在停工之前所供應的臨床藥品一共有20項，食藥署其實在事件的第一時間就針對這些藥品去尋找國內有許可證的合格廠商來取代這些臨床上面的缺口，有14項藥品國內的廠商都可以接得上來，其中有4項的藥品永豐公司至少有兩個月以上的庫存，我們有徵求專案進口以及專案製造。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"吳副組長明美","start":"2024-05-30T10:08:30.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:08:51.040000+08:00","text":"最近大家比較關切的是沖洗用及注射用的生理食鹽水部分，我們除了請國內的廠商增加產能之外，也尋求專案製造以及專案輸入，目前已經有尋求到專案輸入的廠商，在6月10號以前就會有第一批的生理食鹽水從國外輸入。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:08:51.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:08:52.021000+08:00","text":"數量是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳副組長明美","start":"2024-05-30T10:08:53.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:08:57.746000+08:00","text":"6月初的第一批就會有二十多萬袋的生理食鹽水。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:08:58.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:08:59.267000+08:00","text":"落差還有多少？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"吳副組長明美","start":"2024-05-30T10:09:00.373000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:09:09.975000+08:00","text":"其實加上永豐原本的一些庫存以及我們專案輸入的數量，6、7月是不會有問題的，數量是足夠的。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:09:11.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:09:12.596000+08:00","text":"7月以後呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳副組長明美","start":"2024-05-30T10:09:12.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:09:24.279000+08:00","text":"目前廠商所提報上來的數字，到10月之前，專案輸入廠商跟國內產能所加起來的數字是可以符合臨床上面的需求。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:09:24.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:09:26.500000+08:00","text":"所以你們保證不會缺貨？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:09:26.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:09:27.780000+08:00","text":"不會有醫院有短缺的問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:09:27.780000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:09:41.213500+08:00","text":"敢保證嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳副組長明美","start":"2024-05-30T10:09:41.213500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:09:54.647000+08:00","text":"食藥署在5月底有請廠商緊急建置一個系統，然後我們這兩天就有發文給醫院相關的公協會，請醫療機構在6月初、5月底上去填報每週相關的需求量，我們會有每週供應的機制，確保臨床端的藥品需求不會有短缺的情形。","quality":0.124},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:09:54.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:10:19.280000+08:00","text":"這件事其實非常離譜，整個衛福部沒有事先預警，也沒有預判，然後造成這樣一個短缺的情況，沒有讓相關的廠商、勞工獲得保障，把他們加班的時數上限給取消掉，犧牲勞工的時間來彌補你們的過失，這個是非常離譜的。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:10:19.540000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:10:21.281000+08:00","text":"另外一個問題，你們現在的專案是不是用3倍的價格？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳副組長明美","start":"2024-05-30T10:10:21.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:10:24.743000+08:00","text":"專案輸入價格的部分，昨天健保署有依照程序召開共擬會，然後跟廠商討論議價之後的結果，詳細的藥品價格健保署這邊比較清楚，剛剛……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:10:24.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:10:25.103000+08:00","text":"你們不清楚？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:10:25.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:10:47.183000+08:00","text":"今天要來開會，本席已經有提醒，你們還不清楚？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:10:47.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:10:50.290000+08:00","text":"媒體不是說多了高達3倍的價格嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:10:50.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:10:51.052000+08:00","text":"你們不清楚，媒體都清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李副署長丞華","start":"2024-05-30T10:10:56.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:11:02.239000+08:00","text":"目前專案進口因為要讓它快速，所以我們大概用2到3倍的價格。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:11:02.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:11:16.184000+08:00","text":"是啊，所以你看，這一次因為整個衛福部的疏失，讓我們又要花費更多的公帑，剛剛次長還說什麼財政永續，人民的稅收要用在刀口上，請問這是刀口上嗎？","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"王委員育敏","start":"2024-05-30T10:11:16.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T10:11:47.538000+08:00","text":"這是因為疏失，你要用3倍的價格，然後讓廠商來買，另外還要勞工去加更多班，還要取消現在勞基法對他的保障，我覺得這一個專案之後一定要要求衛福部澈澈底底的檢討，而且也不允許未來再發生這樣的事情，浪費國家公帑，還要犧牲勞工的工時來彌補這個過失，這個是未來不可以再發生的事情，謝謝。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"主席（王委員育敏）","start":"2024-05-30T10:11:48.038000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T10:11:51.180857+08:00","text":"接下來請黃健豪委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}