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Review，要找國際電廠來檢核它是不是安全可以開啟，至少要5年。"],["謝委員衣鳯：所以目前相關的修法是不是趕不及？研議的時間？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前來看是趕不及。"],["謝委員衣鳯：那是不是要修專法？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我對專法不是那麼理解，但是就核安會的說法是，從現在來看的話，他們認為是來不及。但我們又得解決產業的問題，所以現在就是台電用它現有的方法在做解決嘛！"],["謝委員衣鳯：它的方法是什麼？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：就是如果有需要會增加機組，包括幾個……"],["謝委員衣鳯：那會不會增加碳排？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：碳排的部分現在都是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們就用購買綠電憑證？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒有，不只綠電憑證，還有……"],["謝委員衣鳯：還有混氫？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：還有碳捕捉技術，還有我們現在實驗藍綠氫的發電。這個計畫其實是比較大的計畫，因為它還有要買藍綠氫的機組。"],["謝委員衣鳯：可是你們用藍綠氫的機組有辦法降碳排嗎？能降多少？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：可以，它是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：你們目前規劃是要降多少？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：藍綠氫是零碳排的，我們目標在2030年是要降24%加減1%。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我知道，這是你們的目標。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["謝委員衣鳯：但是在這個過程當中，你們預計藍綠氫的成長要多少？我覺得主委都一直沒有把這個東西講得很清楚，是因為你沒有辦法預估嗎？還是你沒有確切的目標？還是你這個目標沒有辦法跟我們說？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不是沒有，其實我們已經算了，從各種路徑減下來的話，我們目前大概還有7%的缺口，會由藍綠氫來補足這一塊，我們目前是這樣，還有綠電憑證的購買來補足這一塊。"],["謝委員衣鳯：就是7%？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。這樣的話，目前來看是有機會，但是因為這是一個比較大的實驗，所以我們還是要協助它實驗能夠成功。"],["謝委員衣鳯：是實驗，還是試辦計畫？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：它是一個試辦計畫，它實驗兩年了啦！抱歉！我講錯了。它實驗兩年了，現在是……"],["謝委員衣鳯：對。是實驗，還是試辦計畫？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：它實驗結束了，現在是要進入大量商轉的一個計畫。"],["謝委員衣鳯：商轉？它不是實驗吧？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：它不是！它不是！是商轉。抱歉！我講錯了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們的電力發展是經不起實驗的，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。抱歉！它已經實驗兩年了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：它是一個試辦的計畫，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，試辦計畫。"],["謝委員衣鳯：再來就是AI的部分，在國際上，AI都是一個高耗能的產業，未來在跨部會的檢討裡面，會不會要求AI的資料中心，以及AI整個運算的部分必須要使用綠電？如果AI的運算中心要使用綠電的話，到底對於我們綠電的需求會增加多少？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：AI中心要不要綠電，還是要看廠商所面對的客戶需求，這個還是要看廠商的需求，如果它有這個需求……"],["謝委員衣鳯：我們政府部門會不會要求AI資料中心以及它運算的部分要用綠電？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個就我瞭解，目前……"],["謝委員衣鳯：不然它如果是高耗能的情況下？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們會去評估目前AI中心的設置狀況，目前還沒有很大型的，現在有比較小型的AI中心，未來的話，委員提醒的對，我們可能要去密切注意這一段的可能性了。"],["謝委員衣鳯：好，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","接下來我們請李柏毅委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":402,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-14","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","呂玉玲","賴瑞隆","鄭天財Sra 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review要找國際電廠來檢核它是不是安全可以開啟所以現在目前的相關的修法是不是趕不及?目前來看是趕不及那是不是要修專法?"},{"start":341.957,"end":363.698,"text":"我對專法不是那麼理解但是就河安會的說法是從現在來看的話他們是認為是來不及那來不及的話可能我們從我們得解決產業的問題的話所以現在就是台電用他現在的方法在做解決那他的方法是什麼就是如果有需要會增加機組那包括幾個那會不會增加碳排"},{"start":368.172,"end":371.934,"text":"您們都用購買綠電憑證?沒有,不只綠電憑證,還有碳捕捉技術,還有我們現在實驗藍綠氫的發電。這個計畫其實是比較大的計畫,因為它還有要買藍綠氫的機組。"},{"start":385.505,"end":401.366,"text":"可是你們就是說用這樣子藍綠青的機組有辦法降碳排嗎?就是能降多少?因為你們目前規劃是要降多少?藍綠青是零碳排,它是零碳排的。那我們目標在2030年是要降24%"},{"start":403.228,"end":405.029,"text":"是因為你沒有辦法孕婦嗎?還是你沒有確切的目標?"},{"start":420.338,"end":433.888,"text":"還是你這個目標沒有辦法跟我們說?不是沒有喔,我們其實我們已經算了我們已經算了那目前從各種我們的路徑減下來的話呢我們目前呢大概還有7%的缺口那會由這個藍綠青來補足這一塊我們目前是這樣還有綠電憑證的購買來補足這一塊"},{"start":438.496,"end":455.067,"text":"就是7個那這樣的話目前來看是有機會但是因為這是一個比較大的實驗所以我們還是要看協助他實驗是實驗還是事辦計畫他是一個事辦計畫他實驗兩年了抱歉我講錯了他實驗結束了現在是要進入大量商轉的一個計畫他不是實驗吧因為我們的電力發展是經不起實驗的"},{"start":467.295,"end":481.024,"text":"他是一個示範的計畫吧?是不是?示範計畫還有再來就是AI的部分那AI是不是就是說在國際上AI都是一個高耗能的這樣子的一個產業"},{"start":482.785,"end":507.511,"text":"那未來在跨部會的檢討裡面會不會要求AI的資料中心以及AI的整個就是運算的部分必須要使用綠電那如果AI的運算中心要使用綠電的話那到底對於我們綠電的需求會增加多少"},{"start":512.469,"end":539.441,"text":"AI中心要不要綠電還是要看廠商所面對的客戶需求然後這個是還是要看廠商的需求那我們政府部門會不會要求就是AI資料中心以及運算他的運算的部分是不是應該要用綠電?這個就我了解目前不然他如果是高耗能的情況下"},{"start":540.828,"end":540.848,"text":"好,謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:58:23.396000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:58:26.138000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我想要請劉鏡清主委。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-30T11:58:26.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:58:27.419000+08:00","text":"我們再請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T11:58:35.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:58:36.064000+08:00","text":"謝委員早。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:58:36.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:58:36.484000+08:00","text":"主委，早安。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:58:38.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:01.817000+08:00","text":"我其實很想要了解，當我們把氫能的發展設定成國家能源的目標之一，但是你有沒有什麼具體的專法或你認為在政府部門裡應該由什麼部會共同來推動？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:04.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:06.318000+08:00","text":"國發會有沒有做相關的規劃？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:07.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:08.819000+08:00","text":"有沒有訂出相關的期程？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:09.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:18.983000+08:00","text":"例如中研院的綠氫發展，到底什麼時候我們能有一個訂定的目標？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:18.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:23.905000+08:00","text":"我們在幾年後可以生產出多少的氫能？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:24.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:30.227000+08:00","text":"或者是要能夠有加氫站，能夠蓋出多少座的加氫站？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:30.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:31.328000+08:00","text":"有沒有這樣的具體規劃？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:33.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:47.660000+08:00","text":"目前是沒有，但是有一個大的工程計畫確定在明年會推動，也就是在電廠裡裝設綠氫的轉換實驗工程。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:48.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:56.424000+08:00","text":"這個工程出來之後、它的實驗效果不錯之後就會進行到其他的機組去，達到零碳排的路徑。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:56.424000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:57.584000+08:00","text":"在台電的部分嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:57.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T11:59:58.285000+08:00","text":"對，在台電。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T11:59:58.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:00:09.920000+08:00","text":"這個案子已經申請上來了，我們還沒有核定，我們還是希望再做一個細部的檢討跟規劃，那就會往下走，這是一個零碳排的做法。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:00:10.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:00:27.430000+08:00","text":"另外，就是民間企業開始，過去每一家都會有備援電力，也有一些廠商開始拋棄傳統的柴油發電機，改用藍綠氫的方式在做，桃園現在已經有一些廠商在做了。","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:00:28.890000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:00:40.613000+08:00","text":"它的備用電力也是一個綠電，它是藍綠氫的綠電，我們如果能夠同時推廣下去的話，那它應該會讓我們淨零碳排的路徑有機會達到。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:00:42.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:00:59.146000+08:00","text":"如果你都沒有訂定一個目標，你們就沒有辦法知道電力成長有沒有藉由綠氫的方式，如果不是藉由氫能的方式，你們還有什麼其他的方式？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:01:01.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:01:19.570000+08:00","text":"我們現在的目標是用淨零的角度去訂的，在2030年要達到24%加減1%的降低，這個目標是存在的，我們是以這個目標反推回來，來看碳必須減少多少的方式在做。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:01:20.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:01:26.933000+08:00","text":"對，可是我們氫能的發展有辦法達到電力成長的缺口嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:01:26.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:01:53.910000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，以前我的公司有一個永續發展公司，其實全球一直有在做這種綠氫的研究，目前來講這個研究在歐洲，在德國Forst的工業區也好、法國的渡輪也好、在阿姆斯特丹的垃圾車也好，歐洲現在在做一個實驗室、一個貨運，連空中巴士都訂了2035年要達到氫能源飛機的發展。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:01:55.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:02:09.106000+08:00","text":"整個都在走的時候，我們當時整個全球的研究，到了2030年會開始進入技術成熟的推動，2035年會是商轉的成熟期。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:02:09.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:02:10.747000+08:00","text":"可是你現在沒有辦法預估。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:02:11.408000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:02:23.479000+08:00","text":"對，這個過渡期我們用的是藍綠氫，藍綠氫現在已經在運作了，就是有民間廠商在用了，然後我們準備在火力發電廠也做類似的實驗。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:02:23.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:02:28.844000+08:00","text":"但是萬一未來電力的成長有缺口的時候要怎麼處理？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:02:31.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:02:32.811000+08:00","text":"我們會滾動式地去watch它。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:02:37.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:02:43.099000+08:00","text":"核能會不會成為我們在這個缺口以外的選擇？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:02:43.099000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:02:46.121000+08:00","text":"核能的難題……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:02:46.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:02:49.704000+08:00","text":"新的行政院內閣團隊好像沒有排除，是不是？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:02:53.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:01.227000+08:00","text":"當我們發現它不足的時候，一定會來不及，如果我們當時是比較用天然氣的話，我們可能會採取購買國際綠電憑證來彌補。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:01.227000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:07.342000+08:00","text":"如果是核電……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:07.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:08.242000+08:00","text":"綠電憑證跟用電缺口不一樣吧？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:08.242000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:09.242000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:09.242000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:10.242000+08:00","text":"綠電憑證跟用電缺口不一樣。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:08.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:12.044000+08:00","text":"那天我聽核安會講是這樣，當要重啟的時候，台電要寫一本非常厚的報告書，這個報告書，跟據過去的經驗，他們大概是要寫一年半。","quality":0.811},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:23.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:31.654000+08:00","text":"然後進到核安會之後，核安會審核大概在一年半以後回復要改善，回覆改善要多久，就要看台電改多久。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:32.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:35.897000+08:00","text":"這個來回的過程裡面，可能會到5年的時間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:35.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:40.721000+08:00","text":"然後之後要得到Peer Review，要找國際電廠來檢核它是不是安全可以開啟，至少要5年。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:40.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:47.666000+08:00","text":"所以目前相關的修法是不是趕不及？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:47.666000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:49.127000+08:00","text":"研議的時間？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:49.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:50.067000+08:00","text":"目前來看是趕不及。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:51.328000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:03:52.269000+08:00","text":"那是不是要修專法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:03:53.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:02.665000+08:00","text":"我對專法不是那麼理解，但是就核安會的說法是，從現在來看的話，他們認為是來不及。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:04.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:11.033000+08:00","text":"但我們又得解決產業的問題，所以現在就是台電用它現有的方法在做解決嘛！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:11.273000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:12.274000+08:00","text":"它的方法是什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:12.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:15.177000+08:00","text":"就是如果有需要會增加機組，包括幾個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:15.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:15.678000+08:00","text":"那會不會增加碳排？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:15.678000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:20.292000+08:00","text":"碳排的部分現在都是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:20.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:20.732000+08:00","text":"你們就用購買綠電憑證？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:20.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:21.293000+08:00","text":"沒有，不只綠電憑證，還有……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:21.293000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:22.293000+08:00","text":"還有混氫？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:21.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:23.134000+08:00","text":"還有碳捕捉技術，還有我們現在實驗藍綠氫的發電。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:23.134000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:23.934000+08:00","text":"這個計畫其實是比較大的計畫，因為它還有要買藍綠氫的機組。","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:37.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:42.873000+08:00","text":"可是你們用藍綠氫的機組有辦法降碳排嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:43.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:43.754000+08:00","text":"能降多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:43.754000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:44.795000+08:00","text":"可以，它是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:44.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:47.018000+08:00","text":"你們目前規劃是要降多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:47.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:53.366000+08:00","text":"藍綠氫是零碳排的，我們目標在2030年是要降24%加減1%。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:53.366000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:54.447000+08:00","text":"我知道，這是你們的目標。對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:54.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:55.528000+08:00","text":"但是在這個過程當中，你們預計藍綠氫的成長要多少？","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:55.528000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:56.609000+08:00","text":"我覺得主委都一直沒有把這個東西講得很清楚，是因為你沒有辦法預估嗎？","quality":0.29},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:04:56.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:04:57.029000+08:00","text":"還是你沒有確切的目標？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:12.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:13.779000+08:00","text":"還是你這個目標沒有辦法跟我們說？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:13.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:25.888000+08:00","text":"不是沒有，其實我們已經算了，從各種路徑減下來的話，我們目前大概還有7%的缺口，會由藍綠氫來補足這一塊，我們目前是這樣，還有綠電憑證的購買來補足這一塊。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:30.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:30.596000+08:00","text":"就是7%？對。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:31.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:40.383000+08:00","text":"這樣的話，目前來看是有機會，但是因為這是一個比較大的實驗，所以我們還是要協助它實驗能夠成功。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:40.383000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:42.644000+08:00","text":"是實驗，還是試辦計畫？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:42.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:44.505000+08:00","text":"它是一個試辦計畫，它實驗兩年了啦！抱歉！","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:44.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:44.626000+08:00","text":"我講錯了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:44.626000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:45.626000+08:00","text":"它實驗兩年了，現在是……對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:45.626000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:46.626000+08:00","text":"是實驗，還是試辦計畫？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:44.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:46.227000+08:00","text":"它實驗結束了，現在是要進入大量商轉的一個計畫。商轉？","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:46.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:46.447000+08:00","text":"它不是實驗吧？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:46.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:47.447000+08:00","text":"它不是！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:47.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:48.447000+08:00","text":"它不是！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:48.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:49.447000+08:00","text":"是商轉。抱歉！","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:49.447000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:50.447000+08:00","text":"我講錯了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:46.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:47.047000+08:00","text":"我們的電力發展是經不起實驗的，對不對？對。抱歉！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:47.047000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:05:59.836000+08:00","text":"它已經實驗兩年了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:05:59.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:06:03.038000+08:00","text":"它是一個試辦的計畫，是不是？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:06:04.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:06:04.198000+08:00","text":"對，試辦計畫。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:06:04.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:06:30.289000+08:00","text":"再來就是AI的部分，在國際上，AI都是一個高耗能的產業，未來在跨部會的檢討裡面，會不會要求AI的資料中心，以及AI整個運算的部分必須要使用綠電？","quality":1},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:06:30.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:06:39.491000+08:00","text":"如果AI的運算中心要使用綠電的話，到底對於我們綠電的需求會增加多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:06:44.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:06:54.453000+08:00","text":"AI中心要不要綠電，還是要看廠商所面對的客戶需求，這個還是要看廠商的需求，如果它有這個需求……","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:06:55.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:07:06.819000+08:00","text":"我們政府部門會不會要求AI資料中心以及它運算的部分要用綠電？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:07:06.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:07:09.280000+08:00","text":"這個就我瞭解，目前……","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:07:09.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:07:11.421000+08:00","text":"不然它如果是高耗能的情況下？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-05-30T12:07:11.421000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:07:12.828000+08:00","text":"我們會去評估目前AI中心的設置狀況，目前還沒有很大型的，現在有比較小型的AI中心，未來的話，委員提醒的對，我們可能要去密切注意這一段的可能性了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"謝委員衣鳯","start":"2024-05-30T12:07:12.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:07:12.848000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-30T12:07:13.348000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:07:14.348000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-30T12:07:14.648000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:07:18.648000+08:00","text":"接下來我們請李柏毅委員做詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}