{"error":false,"id":["153419"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153419,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153419","日期":"2024-05-30","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-15","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":15,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-05-30T12:43:00+08:00","結束時間":"2024-05-30T12:50:21+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:21","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/bbbc431469b8aeba8507af1f00c0e6474622ddde1e3527b9446d6a815e91374447817b53da4fb3745ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張智倫","委員發言時間":"12:43:00 - 12:50:21","會議時間":"2024-05-30T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議（事由：邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就「如何精進ESG制度評鑑、永續報告書及公司治理評鑑制度，並導引金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1065,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（12時42分）主席、各位官員、各位委員，大家午安。是不是有請金管會主委跟財政部莊部長？"],["主席：有請彭主委、莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["彭主任委員金隆：委員好。"],["張委員智倫：謝謝主委跟部長。我先請教部長問題，今天我們在討論的是ESG，大家都非常關心，希望企業永續發展、節能減碳，要跟部長請益的問題是，臺灣過去已經推動了很久的電子發票，請問您知道推動電子發票主要的目的在哪裡嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：推動電子發票主要是希望無紙化，第一個，無紙化。第二個，我們更希望是雲端發票，也就是把發票存在載具裡面，更澈底地無紙化，然後讓消費者不需要拿到紙本，讓商家的資料也可以做數位化，不管在對……"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長，解釋得非常清楚。請問一下，現在電子發票它儲存的地方是在哪裡？"],["莊部長翠雲：電子發票目前儲存，我們如果用雲端的話，它就儲存在雲端。"],["張委員智倫：沒錯，部長非常專業，沒有被我考倒。無紙化就是傳送在雲端，所以我們手上拿到的發票叫電子發票證明聯，它是證明有這張電子發票的一個東西。","我先給部長看一下，這是傳統收銀機的發票，原本是希望把收銀機的發票無紙化，可是要跟部長報告，這是現在一般民眾會拿到的，你所謂的電子發票無紙化，會拿到一條這麼長的發票，請問部長，這是發生了什麼事情？直接跟部長分享，就是財政部沒有好好地跟電子發票業者去討論，明明無紙化的部分只要把前面的電子發票證明聯列出來，可是你們沒有跟電子發票系統去做商討，把所有的交易明細、計算公式，甚至下面還有非常多的銷貨資料以及促銷的東西，全部都在電子發票上一次印出來，請問這是部長想要推電子發票的目的嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，電子發票它有統編，如果打統編我知道會有明細出來，另外一大串是一些折價券、廣告，這個跟電子發票沒關係。"],["張委員智倫：不用打統編也會出來啦！"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，有的是折價券或是兌換券，它不是發票。"],["張委員智倫：部長，我覺得這個應該是長期以來的問題，您去買東西也會發現啦！我請教部長，你是不是可以來鼓勵企業，在做憑證的時候只要印證明聯，底下統統都不要？"],["莊部長翠雲：可是它也有在宣導，它在宣導的時候……"],["張委員智倫：有辦法宣導嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：不是，我是說商家為了做廣告或者是做兌換，所以它就弄那麼大的一個……"],["張委員智倫：那你推的電子發票，無紙化就是變成這樣。"],["莊部長翠雲：我們的目的不是要這樣，我們的目的是發票能夠無紙化。"],["張委員智倫：好，那部長可不可以答應本席，你來努力推動，針對這樣的問題，讓政府來鼓勵企業，只要印出電子發票證明聯就好了，其他不鼓勵印出？"],["莊部長翠雲：不鼓勵可以，但是你不能禁止它，因為這是商家的一個作業。"],["張委員智倫：我沒有說要禁止，我說不鼓勵，好不好？尤其是從上市櫃公司企業ESG來看，應該就是要節能減碳，印這麼長的發票，哪裡來的節能減碳？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["張委員智倫：這是第一點。第二點，我要請教金管會……"],["莊部長翠雲：尤其感熱紙要減量。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長，希望一起來協調。","請教金管會主委，我看到今天的專題報告，在第7頁的「參、引導金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作」裡面有寫，「自111年4起實施，放款對象包括綠電及再生能源產業。截至113年3月底，放款餘額達2.8兆元，較111年底2.45兆元，增加3,500億元」，主委，這是你們的德政啦！可是本席在這邊要跟你們分享的是，請問你知不知道目前的綠電公司已經有幾家上市櫃了？我常常在新聞媒體上講，我們的綠電公司EPS從2元到4元到8元，結果現在金管會還在專案報告裡面說要補貼利率，請問這些綠電公司的利率是幾趴？"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個部分容許我們請同仁查一下，再跟委員報告。"],["張委員智倫：這些公司都已經上市櫃了，都已經賺那麼多錢了，你還要再繼續補貼，而且還把這個當成是你的德政，請教主委，是不是可以分級一下？上市櫃公司已經賺了那麼多錢，你還要再補貼它多少利息？這樣公平嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們來瞭解一下。"],["張委員智倫：好不好？這個部分一定要瞭解。第二點，我非常不能理解，報告中說「規範銀行辦理企業授信審核時，宜審酌借款戶是否善盡環境保護、企業誠信經營及社會責任」，現在綠電的公司部分主推太陽能板以及風力發電，請問太陽能板到期了以後，它的太陽能板如何回收，如何做到環境保護？就我瞭解，已經有一批太陽能板到期了，它如何做到環境保護？以及這些綠電公司過去捐贈政治獻金給民進黨的政治人物，我沒有說不行，可是這就是你們說的善盡社會責任，要給它低利率的原因嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：可不可以會後我再提供完整的資訊給委員？"],["張委員智倫：所以本席非常不能接受，不能這樣子去做。不好意思，主席，最後再借用1分鐘。","全民現在擔心台電有可能會破產的問題，我也跟經濟部講，台電帳上有一個核四的資產2,800億，已經沒有經濟效益了，應該要打為損失，可是它沒有辦法提供未來的殘值或是除役的成本，我希望金管會跟財政部來協助。","我要來問一個大家比較關心的，不好意思，最後一個問題，抱歉。我聽說啦！台電非常地辛苦，為了讓臺灣的電力是穩定的，有打電話拜託大型企業上市櫃公司儘量溝通，儘量少用電，請問金管會主委，你有沒有去統計、去瞭解，這樣會不會對我們的大型企業產生什麼樣的問題？請回答。"],["彭主任委員金隆：我還是要進一步瞭解，才能回答這個問題，謝謝。"],["張委員智倫：你沒有辦法回答嗎？"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在應該……"],["張委員智倫：這已經是很久的新聞，有沒有辦法回答最後一個問題？這個問題會影響到上市櫃公司的生意，結果你們完全不瞭解。那我請問一下，有些企業可以拒絕，有些企業不能拒絕，這需不需要發重訊？"],["彭主任委員金隆：我們現在還沒有接收到這樣的訊息。"],["張委員智倫：沒有瞭解嘛！可是新聞都已經跑出來了，所以拜託主委、部長，我們一起來努力。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們……"],["張委員智倫：很多事情大家一起來努力，好不好？"],["彭主任委員金隆：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，","接著請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","接著請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":274,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-15","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王鴻薇","顏寬恒","賴惠員","李坤城","李彥秀","黃珊珊","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王世堅","羅明才","陳玉珍","黃國昌","鍾佳濱","林楚茵","邱志偉","張智倫","楊瓊瓔","蔡易餘"],"page_start":209,"meetingDate":["2024-05-30"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆率所屬相關單位就「如何精進 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謝謝主委跟部長那我先請教部長問題今天我們在討論的是這個ESG大家非常關心的這個希望企業這個永續發展節能減碳那也要跟主委請議的問題就是說台灣現在過去已經推動了很久的這個電子發票請問您知道說推動電子發票的主要的目的在哪裡嗎電子發票主要我們是希望無紙化"},{"start":37.329,"end":38.73,"text":"好 謝謝部長解釋得非常清楚那你請問一下那現在電子發票它的儲存的地方是在哪裡"},{"start":59.7,"end":82.371,"text":"電子發票目前儲存我們如果用雲端的話就儲存在雲端沒錯部長非常專業沒有被我拷倒無紙化就是傳送在雲端所以我們手上拿到的發票叫電子發票證明簾就是說它是證明有這張電子發票的一個東西那我先給部長看一下這是我們傳統的這個收銀機的發票原本就是希望把這個收銀機的發票讓它可以無紙化可是要跟部長報告"},{"start":83.491,"end":110.981,"text":"這是現在一般民眾會拿到你所謂的電子發票無紙化會拿到這麼長的一條的發票請問部長這是發生了什麼事情直接跟部長分享就是財政部沒有再好好的去跟這個電子發票業者去討論明明無紙化的部分只要前面這一個把這個電子發票證明欄這一列給列出來可是你們沒有跟電子發票系統去做商討"},{"start":111.761,"end":138.722,"text":"把所有的交易明細甚至計算公式甚至下面還有非常多的這個銷貨資料以及促銷的東西全部都在電子發票的情況上一次印出來請問這是部長你想要推電子發票的一個目的嗎委員電子發票它有筒邊如果打筒邊我知道會有明細出來那另外有一大串是一些折價券、廣告不用打筒邊也會出來啦"},{"start":140.743,"end":145.23,"text":"所以部長我覺得這個應該是長期來問你去買東西也會發現那我是不是請教部長你是不是可以來鼓勵企業只要在做評證的時候只要印這個證明連出來以後底下匆匆都不要"},{"start":157.887,"end":186.969,"text":"那可是他又在宣導他在宣導 有辦法宣導嗎?不 我覺得商家他為了做廣告或者是做兌換所以他就那你推的電子發票就是變成無紙化變成這樣我們的目的不是要這樣我們的目的是發票能夠無紙化好 那你可不可以答應本席你來努力來推動把這樣的問題讓政府來鼓勵企業只要印出這個電子發票證明證明連就好了其他不鼓勵印出"},{"start":187.534,"end":188.875,"text":"我看到金管會的主委啊今天的這個"},{"start":211.026,"end":230.892,"text":"專題報告裏面在第7月第3他寫說你們要引導金融機構落實放貸及貸後的管理工作尤其針對114年起實施放款對象包含綠電及再生能源即是113年3月底放款餘額到達2.8億較111年2.8兆抱歉2.8兆較110年底的2.45兆高達3500億"},{"start":240.959,"end":265.089,"text":"請教主委這是你們的德政可是本席要這邊跟你們分享的是請問你知不知道現在目前我們的綠電公司代理已經幾家上市櫃了我們的我常常在新聞媒體上講我們的綠電公司EPS從2塊到4塊到8塊結果現在金管會還在專案報告裡面說我要補貼利率請問這些綠電公司的利率是幾%"},{"start":269.048,"end":285.978,"text":"這個容許我們請同仁查一下再跟委員報告這些公司都已經上市櫃了都已經賺那麼多錢了你還要再繼續補貼而且還把這當成是你的德政所以我是會請教主委可以分級一下上市的公司已經賺了那麼多錢了你還要再補貼他多少的利息這樣公平嗎"},{"start":287.473,"end":314.579,"text":"對對我們來瞭解一下好不好這個部分一定要瞭解第二點我對非常的不能理解的他說規範銀行辦理企業授信審核時要審酌借款或是否善盡環境保護企業誠信以及社會責任請問現在綠電的公司部分主推太陽能板以及風力發電請問太陽能板到期了以後他的這個太陽能板如何回收如何做到環境保護"},{"start":316.681,"end":318.861,"text":"這可不可以會後我再提供完整的資訊給委員所以這個本席非常不能接受"},{"start":341.886,"end":358.92,"text":"不能這樣子去做不好意思主席我最後再借用一分鐘全民現在擔心台電破產的有可能會破產的問題我也在這個經濟部跟他講台電有一個帳上有個合適的資產2800億已經沒有經濟效益的應該要打為損失可是他沒有辦法提供出"},{"start":363.524,"end":372.883,"text":"這個大家所謂所需要的為了他的產值或處理的成本我希望這邊金管會跟財政部來協助那我要來問一個是大家比較關心的抱歉最後一個問題抱歉"},{"start":374.366,"end":394.218,"text":"我聽說啦這個台電非常辛苦為了要讓台灣的電力是穩定的有打電話拜託大型企業上市的公司盡量溝通盡量少用電這樣子請問今晚會的主委你有去統計去了解這樣會不會對我們的大型企業產生什麼樣的問題請回答"},{"start":401.476,"end":414.292,"text":"這已經不是已經是很久的新聞有沒有辦法回答最後一個問題這影響到上市會公司生意的問題只有你們完全不了解那我請問一下有些企業可以拒絕有些企業不能拒絕這需不需要發重訊"},{"start":418.84,"end":431.77,"text":"我們現在還沒有接受到這樣的訊息沒有了解嘛可是新聞上都已經跑出來了嘛所以拜託主委部長我們一起來努力很多事情大家一起來努力好不好謝謝謝謝張智倫委員質詢接著鄭振賢委員鄭振賢委員鄭振賢委員不在接著我們請楊瓊英委員質詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:00+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:01+08:00","text":"主席、各位官員、各位委員，大家午安。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:01+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:02+08:00","text":"是不是有請金管會主委跟財政部莊部長？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:00.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:00.410000+08:00","text":"有請彭主委、莊部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:08.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:08.488000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:09.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:09.088000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:09.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:10.549000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委跟部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:10.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:34.501000+08:00","text":"我先請教部長問題，今天我們在討論的是ESG，大家都非常關心，希望企業永續發展、節能減碳，要跟部長請益的問題是，臺灣過去已經推動了很久的電子發票，請問您知道推動電子發票主要的目的在哪裡嗎？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:34.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:36.822000+08:00","text":"推動電子發票主要是希望無紙化，第一個，無紙化。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:36.822000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:37.822000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們更希望是雲端發票，也就是把發票存在載具裡面，更澈底地無紙化，然後讓消費者不需要拿到紙本，讓商家的資料也可以做數位化，不管在對……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:37.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:37.509000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，解釋得非常清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:37.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:43:38.730000+08:00","text":"請問一下，現在電子發票它儲存的地方是在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:43:59.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:44:02.782000+08:00","text":"電子發票目前儲存，我們如果用雲端的話，它就儲存在雲端。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:44:02.922000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:44:05.183000+08:00","text":"沒錯，部長非常專業，沒有被我考倒。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:44:05.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:44:13.166000+08:00","text":"無紙化就是傳送在雲端，所以我們手上拿到的發票叫電子發票證明聯，它是證明有這張電子發票的一個東西。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:44:13.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:44:35.195000+08:00","text":"我先給部長看一下，這是傳統收銀機的發票，原本是希望把收銀機的發票無紙化，可是要跟部長報告，這是現在一般民眾會拿到的，你所謂的電子發票無紙化，會拿到一條這麼長的發票，請問部長，這是發生了什麼事情？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:44:35.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:08.674000+08:00","text":"直接跟部長分享，就是財政部沒有好好地跟電子發票業者去討論，明明無紙化的部分只要把前面的電子發票證明聯列出來，可是你們沒有跟電子發票系統去做商討，把所有的交易明細、計算公式，甚至下面還有非常多的銷貨資料以及促銷的東西，全部都在電子發票上一次印出來，請問這是部長想要推電子發票的目的嗎？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:08.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:17.220000+08:00","text":"委員，電子發票它有統編，如果打統編我知道會有明細出來，另外一大串是一些折價券、廣告，這個跟電子發票沒關係。","quality":0.702},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:17.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:18.702000+08:00","text":"不用打統編也會出來啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:18.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:20.863000+08:00","text":"沒有，有的是折價券或是兌換券，它不是發票。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:20.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:21.404000+08:00","text":"部長，我覺得這個應該是長期以來的問題，您去買東西也會發現啦！","quality":0.815},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:21.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:25.210000+08:00","text":"我請教部長，你是不是可以來鼓勵企業，在做憑證的時候只要印證明聯，底下統統都不要？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:38.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:40.429000+08:00","text":"可是它也有在宣導，它在宣導的時候……","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:40.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:42.731000+08:00","text":"有辦法宣導嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:42.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:47.054000+08:00","text":"不是，我是說商家為了做廣告或者是做兌換，所以它就弄那麼大的一個……","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:47.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:49.936000+08:00","text":"那你推的電子發票，無紙化就是變成這樣。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:49.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:45:53.118000+08:00","text":"我們的目的不是要這樣，我們的目的是發票能夠無紙化。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:45:53.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:06.949000+08:00","text":"好，那部長可不可以答應本席，你來努力推動，針對這樣的問題，讓政府來鼓勵企業，只要印出電子發票證明聯就好了，其他不鼓勵印出？","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:06.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:07.949000+08:00","text":"不鼓勵可以，但是你不能禁止它，因為這是商家的一個作業。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:07.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:08.949000+08:00","text":"我沒有說要禁止，我說不鼓勵，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:08.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:09.949000+08:00","text":"尤其是從上市櫃公司企業ESG來看，應該就是要節能減碳，印這麼長的發票，哪裡來的節能減碳？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:09.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:10.949000+08:00","text":"這是第一點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:10.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:11.949000+08:00","text":"第二點，我要請教金管會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:11.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:12.949000+08:00","text":"尤其感熱紙要減量。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:12.949000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:13.949000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝部長，希望一起來協調。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:07.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:46:44.770000+08:00","text":"請教金管會主委，我看到今天的專題報告，在第7頁的「參、引導金融機構落實放貸及貸後管理工作」裡面有寫，「自111年4起實施，放款對象包括綠電及再生能源產業。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:46:46.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:02.460000+08:00","text":"截至113年3月底，放款餘額達2.8兆元，較111年底2.45兆元，增加3,500億元」，主委，這是你們的德政啦！","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:03.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:11.383000+08:00","text":"可是本席在這邊要跟你們分享的是，請問你知不知道目前的綠電公司已經有幾家上市櫃了？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:13.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:25.089000+08:00","text":"我常常在新聞媒體上講，我們的綠電公司EPS從2元到4元到8元，結果現在金管會還在專案報告裡面說要補貼利率，請問這些綠電公司的利率是幾趴？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:29.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:31.590000+08:00","text":"這個部分容許我們請同仁查一下，再跟委員報告。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:32.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:41.375000+08:00","text":"這些公司都已經上市櫃了，都已經賺那麼多錢了，你還要再繼續補貼，而且還把這個當成是你的德政，請教主委，是不是可以分級一下？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:41.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:45.337000+08:00","text":"上市櫃公司已經賺了那麼多錢，你還要再補貼它多少利息？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:45.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:45.978000+08:00","text":"這樣公平嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:47.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:48.113000+08:00","text":"對，我們來瞭解一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:48.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:49.013000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:49.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:47:49.894000+08:00","text":"這個部分一定要瞭解。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:47:50.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:48:14.579000+08:00","text":"第二點，我非常不能理解，報告中說「規範銀行辦理企業授信審核時，宜審酌借款戶是否善盡環境保護、企業誠信經營及社會責任」，現在綠電的公司部分主推太陽能板以及風力發電，請問太陽能板到期了以後，它的太陽能板如何回收，如何做到環境保護？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:48:14.579000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:48:15.630000+08:00","text":"就我瞭解，已經有一批太陽能板到期了，它如何做到環境保護？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:48:15.630000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:48:16.681000+08:00","text":"以及這些綠電公司過去捐贈政治獻金給民進黨的政治人物，我沒有說不行，可是這就是你們說的善盡社會責任，要給它低利率的原因嗎？","quality":0.018},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:48:16.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:48:18.081000+08:00","text":"可不可以會後我再提供完整的資訊給委員？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:48:18.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:48:42.627000+08:00","text":"所以本席非常不能接受，不能這樣子去做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:48:42.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:48:46.430000+08:00","text":"不好意思，主席，最後再借用1分鐘。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:48:46.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:08.955000+08:00","text":"全民現在擔心台電有可能會破產的問題，我也跟經濟部講，台電帳上有一個核四的資產2,800億，已經沒有經濟效益了，應該要打為損失，可是它沒有辦法提供未來的殘值或是除役的成本，我希望金管會跟財政部來協助。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:09.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:12.863000+08:00","text":"我要來問一個大家比較關心的，不好意思，最後一個問題，抱歉。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:14.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:15.307000+08:00","text":"我聽說啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:17.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:34.158000+08:00","text":"台電非常地辛苦，為了讓臺灣的電力是穩定的，有打電話拜託大型企業上市櫃公司儘量溝通，儘量少用電，請問金管會主委，你有沒有去統計、去瞭解，這樣會不會對我們的大型企業產生什麼樣的問題？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:34.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:34.198000+08:00","text":"請回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:34.198000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:36.837667+08:00","text":"我還是要進一步瞭解，才能回答這個問題，謝謝。","quality":0.053},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:36.837667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:39.477333+08:00","text":"你沒有辦法回答嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:39.477333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:42.117000+08:00","text":"現在應該……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:42.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:46.102000+08:00","text":"這已經是很久的新聞，有沒有辦法回答最後一個問題？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:46.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:50.026000+08:00","text":"這個問題會影響到上市櫃公司的生意，結果你們完全不瞭解。","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:50.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:49:54.292000+08:00","text":"那我請問一下，有些企業可以拒絕，有些企業不能拒絕，這需不需要發重訊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:49:58.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:01.062000+08:00","text":"我們現在還沒有接收到這樣的訊息。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:50:01.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:02.263000+08:00","text":"沒有瞭解嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:50:02.583000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:06.986000+08:00","text":"可是新聞都已經跑出來了，所以拜託主委、部長，我們一起來努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:50:06.986000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:07.986000+08:00","text":"對，我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員智倫","start":"2024-05-30T12:50:07.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:09.328000+08:00","text":"很多事情大家一起來努力，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭主任委員金隆","start":"2024-05-30T12:50:09.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:09.508000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-30T12:50:09.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:09.968000+08:00","text":"謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-30T12:50:09.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:11.129000+08:00","text":"接著請鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-05-30T12:50:11.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-05-30T12:50:11.770000+08:00","text":"接著請楊瓊瓔委員質詢。","quality":0.9}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}