{"error":false,"id":["153789"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153789,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153789","日期":"2024-06-11","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-17","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第17次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":17,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-11T14:47:08+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-11T15:18:50+08:00","影片長度":"00:31:42","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/065bcaf30f002e2b1cffc6f5580f7591eab218bf194c2065f338aa976a9cb1d91ed5d442e98499e15ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"14:47:08 - 15:18:50","會議時間":"2024-06-11T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第17次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢。 \n二、6月7日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、6月11日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":50,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（14時47分）謝謝主席。我首先要歡迎內湖高中的同學，因為我自己兩個女兒也是畢業於內湖高中，歡迎你們。","請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，其實在政治上有時候謠言實在是太多，就如同剛才講到的體育部升格，這個部分事實上在野黨也都有共識，沒有阻擋修法，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一定一起來努力，把它促成。"],["王委員鴻薇：在野黨其實是有共識的，沒有阻擋修法，所以真的有太多的謠言。","另外，今天中午總統府有發布新聞說總統已經正式核可覆議案，院長，我想請問一下，你覺得你是AI內閣還是烽火內閣？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是行動創新內閣。"],["王委員鴻薇：行動創新AI內閣。院長，我為什麼要問你這句話？其實我們都會期待新的內閣上來應該有很多新的政策、新的願景，但是非常遺憾的是，其實院長還沒有到立法院報告之前就說要對立法院提出覆議案，這個在過去的政壇是非常非常少見，因為提覆議案是非同小可的事情，更何況一個新的內閣剛剛上任，還沒有到立法院就說要提覆議案。","另外，我為什麼要講我非常遺憾？我們的內閣本來應該是充滿期待的行動創新AI內閣，為什麼變成處處烽火了呢？前一陣子有關於臺北市警察局長的任命，上週我們也有委員在詢問，在整個任命過程裡面，溝通之間竟然出現了，就是問你，你要咖啡還是茶？臺北市說要咖啡，結果你給了茶。在這個過程裡面戲耍臺北市首都市長，最後造成這樣的不快，雖然其實臺北市還是非常大氣、完全接受了李西河局長，而且蔣萬安市長也沒有拒絕參加他的就任典禮，但這樣的溝通不應該是卓榮泰院長所領導內閣發生的事情，您同不同意？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，委員一開始說不希望謠言造成傷害，我覺得這個就不要造成傷害。第一個，一直到收到大院的來文之後，我才說要提出覆議，在之前我都沒有說要提出覆議，我都說這是法律給憲政機關的救濟，我沒有說提出覆議。"],["王委員鴻薇：是！我完全沒有講錯，我說你還沒有到立法院來做施政報告之前，就說要提出覆議，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我沒有說要提出覆議，我是說依照憲政機關……"],["王委員鴻薇：有啦！這個去查新聞，非常清楚。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛第二個問題，內政部劉部長當天也已經說明清楚了，溝通的過程不是像剛剛委員所陳述的，像外面大家講的那個狀況，她已經講清楚了。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個是確實的，我有跟蔣萬安市長查證過。當然部長上來了，我要講的不只是臺北市，還有最近這兩天在桃園發生的，也就是經濟部去否決了、桃園市撤銷了對於三家固態再生燃料發電廠的許可案，也在地方上造成非常大的爭議，因為地方民眾本來就認為這是高污染的廠商，在這個案子裡面，其實之前經濟部是撤銷推薦函，因為本來是推薦的，後來撤銷了這個推薦函，所以我們不能理解的是，如果經濟部都不願意推薦的廠商、一個高污染的廠商，結果你現在逼著地方政府要硬吃下來，這什麼道理呢？這會不會太「鴨霸」呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員再次澄清，沒有任何人逼地方政府一定要吃下哪些個案子，這個事情推薦函的始末，是不是部長能夠說明清楚？"],["王委員鴻薇：我沒有時間再聽你的始末……"],["卓院長榮泰：事實要講清楚啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：你們有沒有撤銷推薦函？"],["卓院長榮泰：經濟部之前是有過。"],["王委員鴻薇：是！所以經濟部不推薦這些廠商……"],["卓院長榮泰：應該請部長說明清楚，不是……"],["王委員鴻薇：但是當桃園市政府根據經濟部的不推薦，廢除這三家廠商的許可之後，你們又作成撤銷桃園市政府的撤銷許可案，我必須說，這樣的狀況其實從臺北市警察局長案，或者是現在桃園SRF案，這是一個高污染的廠商，難道地方政府沒有權力去決定嗎？所以院長，我在這邊要整個來跟你討論，我們希望看到新的內閣要有新的願景、新的政策，大家對你們期待很深。你上任幾天了？二十多天了，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是！"],["王委員鴻薇：二十多天，我們可以看到所有的新聞焦點集中在覆議案，集中在臺北市警察局長的爭議案，現在這兩天又集中在桃園市SRF案，所以院長，我真的覺得你是這樣的人嗎？其實我也有……"],["卓院長榮泰：也有集中在打詐四法跟道安的問題，我們都一一在解決，這個是多方面的進行。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們會支持打詐四法。其實我今天沒有時間，因為在打詐四法裡面……"],["卓院長榮泰：還有剛剛說的體育暨運動發展部，這個大家都要來支持。"],["王委員鴻薇：對！這些都沒有問題，我剛剛講我們都支持，其實現在有好的……"],["卓院長榮泰：社會會看到的就是這一些，就不是謠言、就不是誤導。"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的是，我有注意到過去民視「台灣演義」曾經對你個人有一個人物特寫，報導稱你是政壇大師兄。"],["卓院長榮泰：不敢當。"],["王委員鴻薇：它是怎麼來形容你呢？它說你身段柔軟，擅於調和鼎鼐，而且是民進黨黨內輩分高、分量重的人物，被尊稱為「大師兄」，最重要的是你身段柔軟、調和鼎鼐，所以院長，這個介紹的是你嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：節目中有這樣講，但是身段如何，大家要互相彼此尊重，調和要大家能夠互相理解，否則身段再軟，那這是委屈。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，你還是你嗎？是你轉性了，還是說今天是因為你執行了賴總統的意志呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：每個人有自己的信念跟價值，但是在政治工作上，我們有一定的政策……"],["王委員鴻薇：我特別要講喔……"],["卓院長榮泰：那我是不是我？委員可以繼續觀察。"],["王委員鴻薇：我特別要講，其實不要不能做自己。經濟部長，您可以先回座……"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：待會我會再跟你討論有關於能源的問題。我覺得一定要做自己才能夠做得好。好，那我想也請國防部長還有我們的海委會主委到台前來。昨天端午節，但是發生了一個大家覺得滿不可思議的事情，這個事情就是一艘從福建出發的快艇，而且開船的人根據媒體形容是將近60歲，也不是什麼年輕力壯的小伙子，他一路開，開到了我們的淡水漁人碼頭，在這個過程裡面，他還撞到了我們的交通船，這個引起社會譁然，大家覺得我們首都的防衛圈怎麼會這麼輕率地就讓一個所謂的平民老百姓駕著快艇一路暢行無阻地跑到我們的漁人碼頭，而且他上岸之後還告訴路人說：我要投奔自由，你可以報警。這不是很扯嗎？這真的是比扯鈴還要扯的事！","好，我要請教管碧玲主委，今天早上您回答媒體說承認有疏失，而且你們說下午也要開人評會，看起來你們會有懲處，但是我要請問的是，這個事件這麼樣地離譜，難道責任只在第一線的同仁嗎？主委，你自己完全沒有任何的政治責任嗎？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告……"],["王委員鴻薇：因為在今年2月才剛剛發生金廈的撞船事件，所以我們海巡署到底執法的標準是什麼？它可以在我們的金廈海域覺得你是非法越線來捕魚，所以就直接去執法，然後這個事情是直接6浬看到了，然後還是沒有任何的動作，直接讓他上岸！我剛才特別講說，因為它曾經衝撞過交通船，老實說啦，它就算不是中共侵臺的一個踩線船，如果他是自殺炸彈客呢？如果這個快艇裡面裝有這些爆裂物呢？它跟我們交通船擦撞之間，不會發生什麼事故嗎？如果發生事故，請問主委你還可以安坐在這裡嗎？所以我要請問主委，難道你個人沒有政治責任嗎？我們的海委會、海巡署到底發生什麼事情，為什麼會連續今年出現這兩個事件呢？"],["管主任委員碧玲：跟委員報告，這是兩個完全不一樣的事件，9號發生的這件事情，我們在6浬的地方，因為它是非常小的一艘小艇，大概只有9公尺長，像這樣的小艇，在6浬處就能夠被我們的雷達鎖定，那麼雷達確實是靈敏的，所以我們的系統並沒有出問題，但是在白天，以這樣的速度往港口裡面進來的時候，我們的雷操手根據他們的經驗，沒有把它當作是偷渡的行徑，一般偷渡是會往岸際去躲藏，而這一艘船是在大白天要進港，所以第一時間誤判為是返港的漁船。報告委員，他們一路監控，但是是以返港漁船的方式監控……"],["王委員鴻薇：我要問的是……"],["管主任委員碧玲：所以會發生這樣的事情。"],["王委員鴻薇：都已經到6浬了才發現，我給你看一下……"],["管主任委員碧玲：6浬的時候是一個光點，是雷達上看到的光點，沒有影像。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們可以看一下左邊圖裡面的黃線，這條船後來的路徑是到了碼頭然後上岸，如果按照剛才主委所講的，它可以一路長驅直入，因為你看到是一個小光點，然後你們有守望哨，也沒有做任何的動作，他直接可以開到……"],["管主任委員碧玲：守望哨要辨識的時候，海上有30艘船。"],["王委員鴻薇：直接開到淡水河，然後再進來、再深入，直接到總統府附近。"],["管主任委員碧玲：報告委員，我們需要熱像儀來協助，我們非常需要熱像儀來協助……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以現在又怪儀器不夠囉？又怪儀器不夠囉？"],["管主任委員碧玲：因為熱顯像儀可以有影像，就不會有這樣的誤判。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以主委，發生這個事情，東怪西怪，第一個，人評會是不是要懲處？懲處不就是第一線的同仁嗎？有懲處到你嗎？你永遠沒有責任……"],["管主任委員碧玲：不過委員，如果你有聽到我的說法……"],["王委員鴻薇：接下來你又說設備沒問題，結果又是沒有熱像儀！"],["管主任委員碧玲：幹部自請處分，我有同意，這件事情我們確實需要警惕。"],["王委員鴻薇：那你自己有什麼責任呢？沒有責任？"],["管主任委員碧玲：有警惕的部分，當然該懲處就要懲處，但是要解決問題，解決問題需要的是科技服勤。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以院長你在這邊，如果說主委永遠都沒有責任，我們不曉得下一次的事件在哪裡。","我請問一下部長。部長，我們一直在講首都防衛圈，而且我們漢光演習不只一次在淡水河做演習，最主要就是要反斬首行動，我們都在那邊演習，而且我們臺北現在也要增加憲兵的人數，就是要固守有關於首都的防衛，我不曉有沒有跟新任的國防部長做軍情報告，這件事情你覺得要如何防範呢？演習是假的嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，因為單一的快艇在平時的時候是由海巡署的岸際雷達掌握海上的情資，國軍是依照海巡提出的支援需求來派遣。就戰時或者進入緊急應變狀態的時候，有關衛戍的守備，我們會有相關非常綿密的部署，但是這個綿密的部署，我想不適宜在這裡跟委員做過多的說明。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為今天早上主委說他根本不相信這是來投奔自由的、投奔中華民國的……"],["管主任委員碧玲：這兩年來有11個案子都是同一個劇本。"],["王委員鴻薇：等一下！那個我看到媒體了。"],["管主任委員碧玲：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：請教國防部長，你們現在的評估，我相信你們也要緊急處理，就算你早上都坐在這邊備詢，你們評估這個事件這麼單純嗎？還是真的有可能是中共侵臺的一個測試？我說一個踩線團。"],["顧部長立雄：我們沒辦法排除這可能是一種灰色地帶的襲擾，那麼今天……"],["王委員鴻薇：以後要如何防範呢？"],["顧部長立雄：今天我想剛剛主委有特別提到了，其實我早先在國安會的時候，我們也討論到了，除了岸際雷達之外，熱像儀的部分也在我們討論的範圍之內，所以這部分都要購置來加強。至於我們在應急作戰階段的防衛部署，我可能沒辦法在這邊跟委員透露，但第3作戰區今天已經召集海巡署來針對這些不明……"],["王委員鴻薇：你說誰？國安局還是國安會？"],["顧部長立雄：第3作戰區、我們的第3作戰區。我們會會同海巡署就不明船隻的動態來掌握，有關……"],["王委員鴻薇：這個部分應該是立刻的……"],["顧部長立雄：對，來實施檢討。"],["王委員鴻薇：應該是由國安單位來召集。未來像這類的事件，絕對不能再發生，對不對？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["管主任委員碧玲：報告委員，都有召集。"],["王委員鴻薇：不能發生嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員說明……"],["王委員鴻薇：昨天這樣看，大家不是覺得很離譜嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告一下，這件事情是一個突發狀況，但是是一個活生生的教訓，我會要求國防部、海委會用這個教訓對未來即刻展開更嚴密的檢討。我們對這件事情如果造成國人心中擔心、不安，我們真的感到抱歉，但是杜絕這件事情再度發生，絕對是政府最優先的目標，我希望各相關部會能確實做到這件事情，把它當作一個活生生的教訓。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長剛才說得很好，要杜絕發生，我覺得各部會首長也要把責任擔起來，不要每次發生類似的狀況就說這是灰色地帶、這是突發狀況，這個狀況跟之前的狀況不一樣，如果未來的懲處、每一次的懲處只有第一線的話，這是非常不合理的事情，所以院長，拜託！說到做到。"],["管主任委員碧玲：報告委員，我早上說的是幹部，幹部跟我自請處分，我同意了。"],["王委員鴻薇：那你自己怎麼不處分自己呢？另外，我想請教國防部長，現在美國軍售的延宕是大家一直在討論的事情，而且希望解決的事情。部長，請問一下，現在美方軍售臺灣延宕的金額已經到多少了，您知道嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：詳細的數字我這邊沒有辦法跟委員做確實說明，我們留置在那邊的應該是累積到……"],["王委員鴻薇：累積多少？你總是要有個大概數吧！你又不全然是新手啊！"],["顧部長立雄：我跟委員講，因為個別的項目不宜細談，大概的數字是191億美元左右。"],["王委員鴻薇：191億美元？"],["顧部長立雄：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：這個你是停留在今年年初的時候，因為事實上經過了4月、5月，現在到6月，其實這個軍售金額正在增加中，那麼美國智庫卡托研究所最近5月、6月都有公布，它公布的金額事實上已經達到197億，因為它說在5月份開始又有延宕的，所以一再地延宕，當時國防部也說，我想您也去過美國很多次，事實上也希望美國的國會，後來組成所謂的老虎小組，部長，老虎小組應該知道吧？"],["顧部長立雄：是，TIGER Team。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，請問一下，老虎小組成立之後，對於我們軍售的交付有沒有達成任何的進度？從成立以來到現在，有沒有因此而使得這個交付能夠如期，然後它有達成任務的，有沒有？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我覺得可以公開的資訊，譬如說，今年年底以前，我們會接受38輛M1A2戰車，那麼今年應該F-16的原型機會出來，通過飛行測試之後，我們寄望在2026年的年底之前，66架可以全部交運。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道這個是因為F-16要明（2026）年……"],["顧部長立雄：2026年的年底。"],["王委員鴻薇：2026年會全數交機嘛！200架……"],["顧部長立雄：是，這是我們……"],["王委員鴻薇：當然這個還有待會我們會討論到。"],["顧部長立雄：66架，我們期待是這樣子。"],["王委員鴻薇：對，全部66架，我們一共會達到200架。"],["顧部長立雄：M1A 2我們也希望能夠……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以我要講的是，有關於軍售的延宕，我希望國防部，甚至外交部，都要更積極，否則這個老虎小組老虎沒有發威的話，就算你是老虎小組、飛龍小組，什麼樣小組都沒有用，所以部長能不能更積極一些，有關於對於美國軍售延宕的部分，我們可以更積極地讓老虎小組能夠發威、能夠達成效果呢？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我們現在朝另外兩個，第一個就是可能的一個共同生產的方向來進行……"],["王委員鴻薇：共同生產？"],["顧部長立雄：對，彌補……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以他沒有交付給我們的改成在臺灣生產，可能嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：這跟我們既定的軍售案沒有關係，這個主要是為了因應未來，譬如說AI用在軍事方面，然後還有無人載具等等的部分，我們希望以……"],["王委員鴻薇：不過，你講的是兩碼事吧！就是有一些在臺灣生產……"],["顧部長立雄：對，我現在意思就是說……"],["王委員鴻薇：跟我向美國去買，然後它到現在還沒有交付給我的，這應該是兩碼事吧！"],["顧部長立雄：那是兩碼子事。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，容我說一句話，這也許牽扯到很多國際情勢的問題，當國際有些重大的軍事活動在進行的時候……"],["王委員鴻薇：有烏克蘭……"],["卓院長榮泰：會影響到我們的時間，但是我覺得細節的問題，我們也不要因為在這裡談到太多時程細節，這樣是不是會增加其他的困擾，我想……"],["王委員鴻薇：我剛才有講……"],["卓院長榮泰：可以跟部長再去瞭解。"],["王委員鴻薇：我要……還瞭解？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，這個……"],["王委員鴻薇：部長應該要有瞭解，我的重點是，我從頭到尾都是問over all的事情，我沒有問哪一個，對不對？我沒有問單一的品項，我要講的是有關於軍售延宕案，我們也付錢了，也同意要賣給我們了，那就不應該一直累積，197億已經將近200億了，這當然應該要解決。"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，明年跟後年是我們軍投付款的高峰期，我相信這個金額會在明、後年大幅的下降，我大概只能跟您說明到這個地方。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們希望今年其實就應該有一些成果。我請經濟部長，我剛剛就說我要問部長。","部長，請問一下，因為您是從業界轉到官場，跟院長不一樣，他是長久在官場，你上任二十幾天，你覺得你有沒有適應官場的文化？你覺得有沒有適應的問題？"],["郭部長智輝：漸漸可以適應。"],["王委員鴻薇：漸漸適應，剛開始不適應？有沒有一種感覺，就是不能講真心話的感覺？你來自業界嘛，應該是講業界的聲音，有沒有？"],["郭部長智輝：我們都是在講真心話。"],["王委員鴻薇：可是你有關核電延役的說法一變再變，都是真心話嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，都是真心話。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，你都是真心話，雖然可能時間點不一樣，你說的話不一樣。請問一下部長，因為你來之前，大家說你是百億CEO，你覺得你在這個位置上可以做多久？你有沒有預期你可以做多久？"],["郭部長智輝：好像這一任是4年嘛。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以準備做4年？"],["郭部長智輝：我努力。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，非常好，所以這4年其實可以做很多事情，請珍惜，如果你真的準備做4年，因為我本來覺得你可能很快會陣亡啦，但是你既然要做4年……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，言重了。"],["王委員鴻薇：這4年就非常地重要了。部長，我記得在經濟委員會我有問過你，就是有關於臺灣的供電需求，其實你那時候有講，你認為在2025年到2028年會出現AI產業的大爆發，所以我們的電力需求量就會大幅增加，你那個時候甚至講說可能還不排除要蓋一個新的電廠，而且我當時問你的時候，我就說你會不會排除核電廠，你說沒有，在你的腦子裡面，你覺得這個電廠並沒有完全排除核電廠。","好，時間暫停一下，我也請我們的國發會劉主委還有國科會吳主委，免得你們坐在那邊，怕你們要打瞌睡，這麼重要的問題，請你們一起來參與。好，部長、兩位主委，有關AI的電力供需，你知道在去年的時候，台電對於有關能源電力的需求，原來的估計是年供需的需求增加2%左右，但是到今年，因為你們喊出AI產業嘛，所以它把它變成3%。可是我讓你看一下，日本政府最新的預估，他們也認為在AI產業鏈的剛性需求帶動下，到了2050年日本的電力需求將增加多達50%，他們擴大發電廠是勢在必行，這是日本。另外，韓國的貿易與工業部草擬了第11個基本電力計畫，目標到2038年要建造三座大型核電廠，還有一座小型的SMR，這個其實過去大家也談過了，所以他們的目標是在2038年70%的電力就要來自於無碳能源。所以部長，你認為我們在2025年到2028年進入AI產業大爆發，台電這樣的電力評估足夠嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：以目前我們所得到的訊息是足夠的。"],["王委員鴻薇：好。那我來問一下我們國發會主委，主委當時在跟媒體茶敘的時候，我覺得你滿好的，你要求台電去估算我們要發展AI產業需要多少電力，我想請問一下主委，如果日本跟韓國他們都這麼具體地預估這麼大幅的成長，而且甚至要蓋多少核電廠、要蓋SMR都已經進入他們的計畫，你覺得是他們太誇張，還是台電的估計太唬爛？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：報告委員，我的看法是2050年是一個預計值，離現在大概至少有五十幾年以上的歷史，所以這個預估很難判斷是對或錯……"],["王委員鴻薇：3%會不會太保守？好，直接講，放諸四海，我們3%會不會太保守？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個數字其實我有參與過經濟部的會議，他們是很認真地在評估，也從產業拿到很多的資訊，所以我的意見跟郭部長是一樣的。"],["王委員鴻薇：跟郭部長一致，所以經濟部郭部長說這個評估是OK的。","我剛才講你要做4年，這要檢驗4年，其實我真的覺得當院長、當到部長是很不容易的事情，部長，我直接說，我剛才給你一點時間，看你能不能講一些真心話，你們這三位都不是死抱住反核神主牌的，如果你們在這個位置上一年過去了，如果你發現沒有什麼不一樣的話，其實郭部長我也會覺得，讓王美花繼續來當這個部長也沒有差啊！幹嘛要換郭智輝呢？幹嘛要換企業的聲音呢？","剩下最後一點時間，講一個很重要的……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，一句話，郭部長除了穩定供電之外，他有很多創新的理念……"],["王委員鴻薇：沒錯、沒錯！但是這個部分很重要。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們可以讓他好好地發揮他在產業界的經驗，進到部長文化裡面，他也有他應該有的表現。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，來自企業界，企業界願意來做這個部長不容易！"],["卓院長榮泰：非常感謝！"],["王委員鴻薇：你就要讓他能夠真正發揮他的專業，如果他來自企業，不能講企業界的聲音、不能講企業界的看法，找他來幹嘛呢？我就說王美花來沒有什麼不行！","最後一點點時間……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會善用企業的效率，但是政府部門有政府公部門的考量，這個他正在很清楚地瞭解當中。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道啊，就是在這個位置上有政治官場的考量、政治的考量，你就知道讓官員說真心話多麼窒礙難行啊！有沒有感覺？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，部長提出的數據都非常精準。"],["王委員鴻薇：你們回去午夜夢迴會覺得：講這些話真的窒礙難行！"],["卓院長榮泰：需要的電量800、新增的有910萬，這個都非常清楚，這個也是部長在努力的工作。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為說要做4年，我就要特別說，童子賢曾經講：能夠得到核融合者可以得天下。我們能不能得天下呢？我們來看一下，核融合在美國準備2030年可以來測試發電、中國大陸也準備2030年來測試發電；最近有一個訊息就是，韓國說他們在一次核融合實驗中創了一個世界紀錄，可以攝氏1億度然後維持時間達48秒，創下世界紀錄。所以韓國在做、日本也說要訂法，要制定法律來發展核融合，因為就如同童子賢說的：得核融合者得天下。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是委員，2030年以後的發展解決不了2025年我們面臨到的問題，我們現在只有多元的發展綠能。"],["王委員鴻薇：按照你的說法，我們什麼都不做……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都在做！"],["王委員鴻薇：人家都在做，我們什麼都不做……"],["卓院長榮泰：都在做！"],["王委員鴻薇：最後我們要把天下讓給別人，是不是這樣子？"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，我們都在做、我們都在做。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以為什麼我特別在這邊把兩位主委也請上來，如果你們真的希望在這個位置上能夠做一段時間，那麼這就是一個歷史的關鍵時刻，對不對？如果你今天是因為一些政治、官場，或者有些立委跟你講：你怎麼可以講實話呢？你怎麼可以實問實答呢？如果這個樣子的話，其實這會錯失臺灣下一個世代發展的契機。這是我語重心長有關於能源的問題，大家苦口婆心！可是我們擔心的是我們的政府冥頑不靈！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的提醒，我們會注重總體。"],["主席：好，謝謝王委員、謝謝卓院長。","下一位請范雲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":173,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-17","speakers":["江啟臣","陳秀寳","葛如鈞","黃建賓","劉建國","柯志恩","沈伯洋","萬美玲","吳沛憶","王鴻薇","范雲","王育敏","李坤城","林憶君","王美惠","邱志偉"],"page_start":89,"meetingDate":["2024-06-11"],"gazette_id":"1135401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1135401_00003","1135401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第17次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長報告施政方針繼續質詢─ 繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1135401_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":3.60846875,"end":11.927843750000001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":12.349718750000001,"end":15.910343750000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.079093750000002,"end":17.90159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":26.355968750000002,"end":26.997218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":27.250343750000003,"end":27.773468750000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":27.97596875,"end":39.78846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":37.84784375,"end":38.354093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":40.362218750000004,"end":43.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":41.74596875,"end":49.103468750000005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":49.44096875,"end":56.44409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":56.595968750000004,"end":58.31721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":58.924718750000004,"end":59.49846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":60.13971875,"end":60.679718750000006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":61.16909375,"end":62.75534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":63.16034375,"end":67.73346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":68.52659375,"end":70.11284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":70.11284375000001,"end":74.44971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":75.91784375,"end":76.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":85.65471875,"end":86.22846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":86.80221875000001,"end":88.67534375000001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":86.97096875000001,"end":87.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":88.96221875,"end":89.73846875000001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":90.31221875,"end":92.25284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":91.30784375,"end":94.09221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":101.28096875,"end":101.53409375000001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":102.07409375,"end":108.95909375000001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":109.39784375,"end":111.67596875000001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":112.03034375,"end":131.60534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":132.14534375,"end":142.60784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":143.18159375000002,"end":150.53909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":150.84284375000001,"end":158.03159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":158.36909375000002,"end":159.55034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":159.98909375000002,"end":163.56659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":164.00534375,"end":165.50721875000002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":165.87846875000002,"end":166.70534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":167.16096875000002,"end":169.05096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":169.62471875,"end":186.98909375000002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":187.44471875000002,"end":191.64659375000002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":191.74784375000002,"end":196.33784375000002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":197.04659375,"end":199.81409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":200.42159375,"end":201.28221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":201.78846875000002,"end":203.72909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":204.01596875,"end":204.53909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":204.85971875,"end":208.47096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":208.65659375,"end":209.88846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":210.32721875000001,"end":217.06034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":214.57971875,"end":223.50659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":222.73034375,"end":225.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":223.77659375000002,"end":227.55659375000002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":226.02096875,"end":226.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":227.15159375000002,"end":238.94721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":237.96846875000003,"end":243.13221875000002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":240.63471875000002,"end":241.56284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":243.46971875000003,"end":249.88221875000002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":250.38846875000002,"end":254.65784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":254.77596875,"end":258.08346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":258.43784375,"end":260.64846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":260.78346875,"end":262.30221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":262.82534375,"end":267.61784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":268.29284375000003,"end":271.71846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":272.08971875000003,"end":275.21159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":275.59971875,"end":279.70034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":280.35846875000004,"end":290.71971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":290.92221875,"end":292.91346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":293.25096875,"end":300.72659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":300.77721875000003,"end":304.01721875000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":304.38846875,"end":305.78909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":305.87346875000003,"end":312.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":312.60659375,"end":316.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":315.42471875,"end":321.46596875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":317.65221875000003,"end":319.10346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":321.87096875000003,"end":323.17034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":323.17034375000003,"end":326.74784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":326.74784375,"end":328.24971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":326.88284375,"end":327.82784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":328.08096875,"end":328.72221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":328.97534375000004,"end":344.48346875000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":345.15846875,"end":374.87534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":375.29721875,"end":380.61284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":380.10659375,"end":380.42721875,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":381.11909375000005,"end":394.80471875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":395.44596875,"end":395.98596875000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":396.61034375,"end":397.20096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":398.16284375000004,"end":399.41159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":399.64784375000005,"end":402.01034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":402.19596875,"end":403.74846875000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":402.61784375,"end":406.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":407.17409375000005,"end":409.51971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":407.34284375000004,"end":413.90721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":410.31284375,"end":410.56596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":412.23659375000005,"end":416.89409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":415.47659375,"end":421.87221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":417.21471875000003,"end":421.19721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":422.98596875000004,"end":424.50471875000005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":424.94346875,"end":425.70284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":426.32721875000004,"end":431.50784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":431.87909375000004,"end":432.19971875000005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":432.60471875,"end":434.89971875000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":435.08534375000005,"end":435.65909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":435.27096875,"end":435.55784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":435.91221875,"end":437.71784375000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":438.12284375,"end":438.81471875000005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":439.18596875000003,"end":439.70909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":440.16471875,"end":442.15596875000006,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":442.18971875000005,"end":444.70409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":445.36221875,"end":450.82971875000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":451.23471875,"end":454.13721875000005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":454.52534375000005,"end":456.02721875000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":456.56721875000005,"end":457.09034375000005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":457.68096875000003,"end":458.13659375000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":458.86221875,"end":460.16159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":461.10659375,"end":463.21596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":463.53659375,"end":465.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":466.08471875000004,"end":466.96221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":467.23221875,"end":469.32471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":469.49346875000003,"end":472.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":469.79721875,"end":471.04596875000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":472.81784375,"end":477.15471875000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":477.39096875,"end":481.17096875000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":482.40284375000005,"end":489.10221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":486.55409375000005,"end":487.46534375000005,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":488.74784375,"end":490.51971875000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":490.94159375000004,"end":503.73284375000003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":497.03346875000005,"end":497.06721875000005,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":497.06721875000005,"end":497.48909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":497.48909375000005,"end":497.55659375000005,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":504.08721875000003,"end":510.38159375000004,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":512.42346875,"end":513.99284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":514.93784375,"end":515.78159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":516.1528437500001,"end":517.2665937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":517.8572187500001,"end":520.28721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":521.40096875,"end":523.0715937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":523.8984687500001,"end":526.1428437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":526.51409375,"end":527.50971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":527.88096875,"end":535.20471875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":536.2847187500001,"end":537.3984687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":537.8372187500001,"end":539.2209687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":539.7609687500001,"end":541.4484687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":541.65096875,"end":542.0222187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":542.41034375,"end":547.0678437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":547.6415937500001,"end":548.68784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":548.72159375,"end":550.37534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":550.71284375,"end":551.55659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":552.11346875,"end":554.32409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":554.8640937499999,"end":555.7078437499999,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":555.77534375,"end":556.87221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":557.15909375,"end":559.36971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":559.9265937499999,"end":573.86534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":574.72596875,"end":576.00846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":576.5990937500001,"end":578.64096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":578.80971875,"end":580.5815937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":580.93596875,"end":586.43721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":586.79159375,"end":590.3015937499999,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":590.74034375,"end":593.0690937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":594.0984687499999,"end":594.9422187499999,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":595.0265937500001,"end":596.4440937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":597.0347187500001,"end":598.21596875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":598.80659375,"end":600.02159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":600.8315937500001,"end":604.24034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":604.7803437499999,"end":609.3703437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":609.6740937500001,"end":617.20034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":609.91034375,"end":611.1084687499999,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":618.06096875,"end":618.9553437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":619.14096875,"end":621.7397187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":622.29659375,"end":627.62909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":628.01721875,"end":631.52721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":631.7803437499999,"end":634.1259687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":634.37909375,"end":642.24284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":642.96846875,"end":648.14909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":648.41909375,"end":649.41471875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":650.3428437499999,"end":654.76409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":655.3884687500001,"end":657.6497187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":657.7509687500001,"end":669.4115937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":669.6984687500001,"end":673.9509687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":674.28846875,"end":678.22034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":678.76034375,"end":679.4184687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":680.09346875,"end":682.97909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":683.2153437500001,"end":686.65784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":687.5690937500001,"end":691.01159375,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":691.33221875,"end":694.0490937500001,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":694.3190937500001,"end":699.0947187500001,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":699.3647187500001,"end":745.9734687499999,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":730.80284375,"end":731.0390937500001,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":731.0390937500001,"end":731.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":731.14034375,"end":731.3090937500001,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":742.4128437500001,"end":745.7709687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":745.9734687499999,"end":749.78721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":746.12534375,"end":746.46284375,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":748.11659375,"end":753.71909375,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":750.05721875,"end":750.24284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":750.4284687500001,"end":751.9978437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":752.6728437500001,"end":755.11971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":755.4909687500001,"end":757.7690937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":757.8872187500001,"end":761.5828437499999,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":762.35909375,"end":763.6922187499999,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":763.97909375,"end":764.83971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":764.99159375,"end":771.03284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":771.6572187500001,"end":776.4834687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":777.3272187500002,"end":779.04846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":777.4115937500001,"end":782.7609687500001,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":780.43221875,"end":782.57534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":783.0815937500001,"end":783.6215937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":784.26284375,"end":787.4184687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":786.7097187500001,"end":796.3115937500002,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":789.8147187500001,"end":793.12221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":793.4934687500001,"end":795.11346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":795.78846875,"end":796.49721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":796.6997187500001,"end":798.16784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":798.20159375,"end":803.26409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":803.7197187500001,"end":811.00971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":803.92221875,"end":804.5972187500001,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":805.0359687500002,"end":827.9522187500002,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":811.0265937500001,"end":811.83659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":812.3428437500002,"end":812.37659375,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":812.4609687500001,"end":812.4778437500001,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":812.4778437500001,"end":812.66346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":817.8272187500002,"end":821.1853437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":824.4253437500001,"end":826.33221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":827.2097187500001,"end":834.1453437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":834.63471875,"end":835.1072187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":835.73159375,"end":845.45159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":845.6540937500001,"end":848.0334687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":848.3203437500001,"end":858.8840937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":859.35659375,"end":860.6897187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":861.6515937500001,"end":867.82784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":868.7390937500002,"end":869.7178437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":869.86971875,"end":873.31221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":874.4765937500001,"end":875.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":875.65784375,"end":888.76971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":889.1240937500002,"end":898.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":899.04659375,"end":906.35346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":904.09221875,"end":911.07846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":911.11221875,"end":913.1709687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":911.1965937500001,"end":912.95159375,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":913.1709687500002,"end":913.2890937500001,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":913.2890937500001,"end":915.4153437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":913.66034375,"end":914.16659375,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":915.49971875,"end":916.8159687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":917.45721875,"end":923.09346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":923.5828437500002,"end":924.19034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":924.5109687500001,"end":930.5859687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":931.21034375,"end":932.18909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":932.88096875,"end":936.4753437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":935.5134687500001,"end":941.4197187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":940.2890937500001,"end":941.8415937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":942.48284375,"end":946.4990937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":946.70159375,"end":968.36909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":954.3290937500001,"end":954.85221875,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":968.33534375,"end":970.7990937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":971.0859687500001,"end":978.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":971.2378437500001,"end":971.6259687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":972.7734687500001,"end":973.7690937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":978.91596875,"end":984.68721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":979.0847187500001,"end":980.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":981.3459687500001,"end":983.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":983.97846875,"end":985.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":985.09221875,"end":987.5390937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":985.10909375,"end":985.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":987.7078437500002,"end":990.4922187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":990.7453437500001,"end":990.7790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":990.7790937500001,"end":990.7959687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":990.7959687500002,"end":990.98159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":990.9140937500001,"end":991.43721875,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":991.43721875,"end":991.9265937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":991.9265937500002,"end":992.50034375,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":993.8840937500001,"end":997.4953437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":995.21721875,"end":996.63471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":997.6472187500001,"end":999.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":999.2165937500001,"end":1001.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1001.6128437500001,"end":1003.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1004.32971875,"end":1006.0678437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1006.5065937500001,"end":1007.3672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1007.8059687500001,"end":1017.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1011.09659375,"end":1011.7547187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1017.8972187500001,"end":1020.0065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1020.25971875,"end":1022.9428437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1023.1453437500002,"end":1027.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1026.16596875,"end":1026.62159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1027.7859687500002,"end":1029.4903437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1029.94596875,"end":1035.2109687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1035.43034375,"end":1043.9522187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1044.32346875,"end":1048.37346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1048.8628437500001,"end":1053.2503437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":1051.8665937500002,"end":1056.4734687500002,"speaker_score":0.818},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1054.00971875,"end":1054.3472187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1056.96284375,"end":1059.47721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1059.7303437500002,"end":1063.15596875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1063.61159375,"end":1073.01096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1063.71284375,"end":1063.9659687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1074.00659375,"end":1080.4190937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1081.3640937500002,"end":1081.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1082.2415937500002,"end":1089.58221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1089.75096875,"end":1092.3159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1091.57346875,"end":1096.33221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1094.5772187500002,"end":1100.6353437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1100.82096875,"end":1102.27221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1102.27221875,"end":1102.6434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1102.79534375,"end":1115.60346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1115.92409375,"end":1120.93596875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1121.2059687500002,"end":1130.9765937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1131.21284375,"end":1138.0809687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1138.4353437500001,"end":1144.98284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1145.2528437500002,"end":1145.5228437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1146.13034375,"end":1147.98659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1148.0034687500001,"end":1149.0328437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1149.1340937500001,"end":1149.4378437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1150.0284687500002,"end":1151.32784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1151.8340937500002,"end":1153.87596875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1154.31471875,"end":1159.4109687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1159.93409375,"end":1167.89909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1168.33784375,"end":1169.7215937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1168.48971875,"end":1168.7090937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1169.2490937500002,"end":1176.91034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1177.3828437500001,"end":1181.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1181.3484687500002,"end":1188.85784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1188.0815937500001,"end":1199.4722187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1193.4309687500001,"end":1195.1522187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1196.1140937500002,"end":1200.6365937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1200.3159687500001,"end":1204.36596875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1203.0328437500002,"end":1205.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1204.6865937500002,"end":1206.6440937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1207.04909375,"end":1209.8672187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1209.98534375,"end":1219.3678437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1219.55346875,"end":1223.3840937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1224.16034375,"end":1226.43846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1226.97846875,"end":1238.52096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1238.8753437500002,"end":1243.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1244.6465937500002,"end":1250.21534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1248.1565937500002,"end":1252.8140937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1252.8140937500002,"end":1261.1334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1253.5059687500002,"end":1254.13034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1261.4034687500002,"end":1265.8415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1265.26784375,"end":1274.36346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1267.1072187500001,"end":1270.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1274.1947187500002,"end":1279.2065937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1274.36346875,"end":1274.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1274.97096875,"end":1275.7134687500002,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1279.59471875,"end":1280.9615937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1281.4678437500002,"end":1294.1072187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1291.84596875,"end":1292.8415937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1293.7528437500002,"end":1295.9972187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1294.20846875,"end":1294.63034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1295.9972187500002,"end":1296.7903437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1296.30096875,"end":1301.92034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1302.37596875,"end":1303.1522187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1303.4222187500002,"end":1307.3203437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1307.43846875,"end":1321.2759687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1321.37721875,"end":1321.90034375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1321.3940937500001,"end":1334.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1334.9447187500002,"end":1341.30659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1338.4040937500001,"end":1338.7415937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1341.9309687500001,"end":1343.01096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1343.5172187500002,"end":1344.41159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1354.13159375,"end":1354.95846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1355.2115937500002,"end":1356.20721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1356.37596875,"end":1362.3328437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1362.97409375,"end":1364.3072187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1364.6278437500002,"end":1366.8215937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1367.63159375,"end":1369.0659687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1369.6228437500001,"end":1370.71971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1371.12471875,"end":1371.9347187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1372.5084687500002,"end":1373.8753437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1375.0397187500002,"end":1376.5753437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1376.8622187500002,"end":1378.6172187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1380.4903437500002,"end":1382.97096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1383.8822187500002,"end":1384.2534687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1384.7428437500002,"end":1386.34596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1386.86909375,"end":1391.4253437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1391.52659375,"end":1393.36596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1393.51784375,"end":1393.8890937500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1394.05784375,"end":1399.69409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1399.96409375,"end":1403.6765937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1404.2503437500002,"end":1406.4609687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1408.0303437500002,"end":1409.4815937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1411.2534687500001,"end":1413.04221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1413.2953437500003,"end":1413.58221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1413.8184687500002,"end":1414.86471875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1415.9278437500002,"end":1416.7884687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1417.0753437500002,"end":1421.07471875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1421.5640937500002,"end":1427.0653437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1427.52096875,"end":1429.1240937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1429.20846875,"end":1430.9297187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1430.64284375,"end":1431.6722187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1431.6722187500002,"end":1433.7984687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1433.9165937500002,"end":1434.25409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1435.7728437500002,"end":1436.26221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1436.9878437500001,"end":1442.55659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1442.9447187500002,"end":1444.7334687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1444.8853437500002,"end":1450.45409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1450.70721875,"end":1453.7615937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1454.0147187500002,"end":1454.0315937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1454.0484687500002,"end":1457.2378437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1458.1322187500002,"end":1463.26221875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1464.2072187500003,"end":1467.48096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1468.0040937500003,"end":1475.34471875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1476.30659375,"end":1480.7109687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1480.81221875,"end":1481.8415937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1482.1622187500002,"end":1483.5290937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1483.8328437500002,"end":1484.4234687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1484.77784375,"end":1486.1109687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1486.2290937500002,"end":1487.27534375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1487.8828437500001,"end":1490.09346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1497.9234687500002,"end":1499.4253437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1500.1172187500001,"end":1502.8003437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1502.9690937500002,"end":1504.89284375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1505.44971875,"end":1509.1622187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1509.66846875,"end":1516.26659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1516.82346875,"end":1521.5315937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1521.9703437500002,"end":1523.9447187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1524.99096875,"end":1525.4803437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1526.10471875,"end":1526.8809687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1527.37034375,"end":1533.2428437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1533.4622187500001,"end":1543.26659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1543.6209687500002,"end":1544.4140937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1544.5659687500001,"end":1549.6453437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1549.74659375,"end":1560.96846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1561.13721875,"end":1567.9547187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1568.84909375,"end":1569.3553437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1570.68846875,"end":1571.0090937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1571.53221875,"end":1571.5659687500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1571.5659687500001,"end":1571.6334687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1571.6334687500002,"end":1571.68409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1571.68409375,"end":1571.7515937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1571.7515937500002,"end":1571.7684687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1571.7853437500003,"end":1572.8484687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1573.5909687500002,"end":1574.7215937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1575.4978437500001,"end":1576.88159375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1577.4047187500003,"end":1581.5390937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1581.7415937500002,"end":1583.05784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1583.9353437500001,"end":1585.0997187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1585.4034687500002,"end":1587.0572187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":1587.3778437500002,"end":1591.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1591.7315937500002,"end":1594.1109687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1594.87034375,"end":1596.3215937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1597.1822187500002,"end":1598.4478437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1598.7853437500003,"end":1610.0915937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1610.5472187500002,"end":1614.56346875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1614.7997187500002,"end":1624.5703437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1624.97534375,"end":1626.6290937500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1627.0172187500002,"end":1629.2447187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1630.7634687500001,"end":1631.2528437500002,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1631.43846875,"end":1635.5559687500001,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1635.94409375,"end":1636.5684687500002,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1637.1590937500002,"end":1638.9309687500001,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1639.5553437500002,"end":1646.47409375,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1646.2715937500002,"end":1650.97971875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1646.60909375,"end":1647.9253437500001,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1651.6547187500003,"end":1652.0765937500003,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"何局長淑萍","start":1652.2790937500001,"end":1662.8597187500002,"speaker_score":0.805},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1662.9947187500002,"end":1664.3953437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1664.4459687500002,"end":1665.2559687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1665.62721875,"end":1672.3940937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1672.8665937500002,"end":1674.03096875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1674.7903437500001,"end":1679.7515937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1680.0215937500002,"end":1681.2703437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1681.37159375,"end":1682.1140937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1682.48534375,"end":1686.4847187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1687.2272187500002,"end":1691.8847187500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1692.2559687500002,"end":1694.3653437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1695.8165937500003,"end":1696.82909375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1697.40284375,"end":1704.6422187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1705.0472187500002,"end":1706.4478437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1706.9034687500002,"end":1709.1647187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1709.5697187500002,"end":1711.74659375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1711.57784375,"end":1724.0822187500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1715.1553437500002,"end":1718.0409687500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1723.3397187500002,"end":1723.9134687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1724.25096875,"end":1727.5415937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1727.4572187500003,"end":1728.3009687500003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1728.3684687500001,"end":1736.0972187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1736.4347187500002,"end":1744.51784375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1742.67846875,"end":1750.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1744.7372187500002,"end":1745.2265937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1749.8165937500003,"end":1756.1953437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1756.88721875,"end":1760.7178437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1761.1565937500002,"end":1761.37596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1761.37596875,"end":1765.4765937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1761.6122187500002,"end":1761.8315937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1762.5572187500002,"end":1764.76784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1765.30784375,"end":1770.5897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1766.4047187500003,"end":1766.7590937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1769.1384687500001,"end":1769.3240937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1770.2015937500003,"end":1774.1503437500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1774.6734687500002,"end":1775.4159687500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1775.87159375,"end":1777.13721875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1777.7953437500003,"end":1780.1915937500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1780.8497187500002,"end":1782.9422187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1783.6509687500002,"end":1784.9334687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1785.28784375,"end":1786.41846875,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1788.6122187500002,"end":1791.7172187500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1792.5440937500002,"end":1814.0259687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1814.4309687500001,"end":1817.3672187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1817.8565937500002,"end":1823.7965937500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1823.96534375,"end":1825.5347187500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1825.7034687500002,"end":1826.5472187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":1826.8003437500001,"end":1831.4409687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1835.9634687500002,"end":1837.6847187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1837.9040937500001,"end":1843.5572187500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1841.3634687500003,"end":1842.10596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1843.79346875,"end":1844.2828437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1844.75534375,"end":1845.1097187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1845.1097187500002,"end":1845.19409375,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1845.19409375,"end":1845.2447187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1845.2447187500002,"end":1845.9365937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1846.2740937500002,"end":1846.7803437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1846.3584687500002,"end":1846.9153437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1846.9153437500001,"end":1846.9490937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1847.16846875,"end":1851.9103437500003,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1852.1465937500002,"end":1855.4878437500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1855.8590937500003,"end":1857.7490937500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1858.0865937500002,"end":1860.8878437500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1861.0565937500003,"end":1861.8834687500002,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1861.93409375,"end":1875.0290937500001,"speaker_score":0.709},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":1862.5922187500003,"end":1862.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1891.7690937500001,"end":1896.4434687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":1899.9703437500002,"end":1902.5015937500002}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.612,"end":4.112,"text":"王委員好。"},{"start":27.301,"end":39.546,"text":"院長,其實我們在政治上有時候謠言實在是太多,就如同剛才在講到的這個體育部升格,這個部分事實上在野黨也都有共識的,沒有主黨修法,對不對?"},{"start":40.367,"end":42.569,"text":"院長,我想請問一下,你覺得你是AI內閣還是烽火內閣?"},{"start":68.527,"end":88.233,"text":"我們是行動創新那個。 行動創新AI那個。對不起,我忘了把我的板子拿過來,等一下。 院長,我為什麼要問你這句話?"},{"start":88.233,"end":93.095,"text":"倒過來。 也就是,倒過來。 委員反了。 對不起喔,謝謝你,剛沒有看到。"},{"start":101.288,"end":122.083,"text":"好,也就是其實我們都會期待新的內閣上來,它應該有很多的新的政策、新的願景。但是呢,非常遺憾的是,其實院長還沒有到立法院來報告之前,就說要對立法院提出復議案。 這個在過去的政壇是非常非常少見。"},{"start":122.984,"end":137.391,"text":"因為提復議案就是非同小可的事情,更何況一個新的內閣剛剛上任還沒有到立法院就提復議案。另外我為什麼要講說我非常遺憾我們的內閣本來應該充滿期待的行動創新AI內閣為什麼變成處處瘋火了呢?"},{"start":143.254,"end":168.587,"text":"前陣子有關於我們臺北市警察局長的任命在上週我們也有委員在詢問在整個的任命過程裡面溝通之間竟然出現了就是問你要咖啡呢還是茶結果呢我們臺北市說要咖啡就你給了茶在這個過程裡面細耍臺北市首都市長"},{"start":169.688,"end":196.25,"text":"然後最後造成這樣的不快雖然其實臺北市還是非常大氣的完全接受了李希和局長而且呢也沒有我們這個蔣國安市長也沒有拒絕去參加他的就任典禮但是呢這樣的溝通不應該是一個卓榮泰院長所領導內閣發生的事情您同不同意"},{"start":197.339,"end":223.897,"text":"謝謝委員。委員一開始說不希望謠言造成傷害。那我覺得這個就不要造成傷害。第一個,我一直到收到大約的來文之後才說我要提出復議。在之前我都沒有說要提出復議。我都說這是法律給憲政機關的救濟。我完全沒有講過。我說你還沒有到我們立法院來做施政報告之前就提出說要提出復議。我沒有說要提出復議。我說要憲政機關。"},{"start":225.598,"end":242.12,"text":"第二個,剛剛第二個問題,這個內政部劉部長當天也就說明清楚了,這個溝通的過程不是像剛剛委員所陳述的是在外面大家講的那個狀況。這個是確實的,其實我有跟王安市長有查證過。"},{"start":243.542,"end":266.899,"text":"我另外要講的當然那個部長上來其實我要講的不只是臺北市還有最近這兩天發生的在桃園的也就是我們經濟部去否決了撤銷了桃園市對於三家固體再生燃料發電廠的一個許可案"},{"start":268.68,"end":278.59,"text":"這個也在地方上造成非常大的爭議,因為地方的民眾本來就是認為這是一個高污染的廠商。"},{"start":280.404,"end":303.826,"text":"那所以在這個案子裡面其實之前經濟部是撤銷了推薦函因為本來是推薦後來撤銷了這個推薦函所以我們不能理解的是如果你經濟部都不願意推薦的廠商一個高污染的廠商結果你現在逼著地方政府要硬吃下來這什麼道理呢"},{"start":305.908,"end":321.102,"text":"各位再次澄清沒有任何人去逼地方政府一定要吃下哪些個案子那這個事情推薦函的始末是不是部長能夠說得清楚我沒有時間我沒有時間再聽你的始末事實要講清楚啊因為有沒有你們有沒有撤銷推薦函"},{"start":323.269,"end":344.194,"text":"是,所以經濟部不推薦這些廠商。但是呢,當桃園市政府根據經濟部不推薦,然後撤除了這個廢除了這三家廠商的一個許可之後,你們又做成了撤銷桃園市政府的一個這個這個撤銷許可案。"},{"start":345.214,"end":374.574,"text":"我必須說呀這樣的狀況其實從臺北市警察局長案或者是現在桃園的srf案這是一個高污染的廠商難道地方政府沒有權利去決定嗎所以院長我在這邊要整個的來跟你討論我們希望看到的新的內閣他要有新的願景新的政策大家對你們期待很深"},{"start":375.354,"end":396.866,"text":"可是我們這我們你上任幾天了20多天了嘛對不對20多天我們可以看到所有的新聞焦點集中在復議案集中在臺北市警察局長的這個爭議案現在這兩天又集中在桃園市srf所以院長啊"},{"start":398.206,"end":402.709,"text":"我真的覺得你是這樣的人嗎?"},{"start":402.709,"end":420.701,"text":"也有集中在打詐釋法跟盜安的問題我們都一一在解決 這個是多方面的進行 打詐釋法我們會支持 打詐釋法其實我今天沒有時間 還有剛剛在體育局運動發展部 這個大家都來支持 那社會會看到的就是這些 就不是謠言 就不是錯誤的路程"},{"start":423.052,"end":439.268,"text":"在我有注意到過去民視臺灣演藝曾經對你個人有一個人物的特性報導政壇大師兄他是怎麼來形容你呢他說你"},{"start":440.349,"end":459.742,"text":"身段柔軟,善於調和鼎瀾,而且是民進黨黨內輩分高、分量重的人物,被尊稱為大師兄。最重要的是你身段柔軟,調和鼎瀾。所以,院長,這個介紹的是你嗎?"},{"start":461.664,"end":464.327,"text":"院長你還是你嗎?是你轉性了還是說今天是因為你執行了賴總統的意志呢?"},{"start":482.438,"end":510.026,"text":"每個人有自己的信念跟價值但是在政治工作上我們一定的政策我特別要講其實不要不能做自己其實那個部長經營部長您可以先回座待會我會再跟你討論這個有關能源的問題我覺得一定要做自己才能夠做得好好那我想也請國防部長還有我們的海委會主委也能夠到台前來"},{"start":512.455,"end":534.81,"text":"昨天端午節但是發生了一個大家覺得蠻不可思議的事情這個事情就是一輛從福建的快艇而且這個開船的人根據媒體形容是將近60歲也不是什麼年輕力壯的小夥子"},{"start":536.368,"end":536.628,"text":"王鴻薇"},{"start":547.957,"end":573.715,"text":"這個引起社會嘩然大家覺得我們首都的防衛圈怎麼會這麼的輕率的就讓一個所謂的平民老百姓駕著快艇一路暢行無阻的跑到我們的漁人碼頭而且他上岸之後還告訴路人說我要投奔自由你可以報警"},{"start":574.895,"end":576.796,"text":"這不是很扯嗎?"},{"start":576.796,"end":596.022,"text":"這真的是比扯鈴還要扯的事。好,我要請教反被零主委,今天早上您回答媒體說承認有疏失,而且你們說下午也會要開人評會,那看起來你們會有懲處,但是我要請問的是,這個事件這麼樣的離譜,"},{"start":601.125,"end":616.753,"text":"難道責任只有第一線的同仁嗎?指揮你自己完全沒有任何的政治責任嗎?因為呢在今年2月才剛剛發生驚嚇的這個撞禪事件所以我們"},{"start":618.1,"end":641.997,"text":"海巡署到底他執法的標準是什麼?他可以在我們的今夏海域覺得這個你是非法的那個越線來這個捕魚,所以呢我就是直接去執法。 然後這個事情呢是直接六海裡看到了,然後還是沒有任何的動作,直接讓他上岸。"},{"start":643.058,"end":667.444,"text":"所以我剛才特別講說因為他曾經衝撞過交通船老師說啦他就算不是中共清台的一個採卸團如果他是自殺炸彈客呢?如果這個快艇裡面裝有這些爆裂物呢?他跟我們交通船插帳之間不會發生什麼事故嗎?如果發生事故請問你"},{"start":670.105,"end":672.548,"text":"主委你還可以安坐在這裡嗎?"},{"start":672.548,"end":677.552,"text":"所以我要請問主委,難道你個人沒有政治責任嗎?"},{"start":677.552,"end":683.497,"text":"這件事情我們的海委會海巡署到底發生什麼事情?"},{"start":683.497,"end":685.499,"text":"為什麼會連續今年出現這兩個事件呢?"},{"start":687.748,"end":714.545,"text":"跟委員報告這是兩個完全不一樣的事件9號發生的這件事情我們在6海里的地方因為它是非常小的一艘小艇大概只有9公尺長像這樣的小艇我們在6海里處就能夠被我們的雷達鎖定那麼雷達確實是靈敏的所以我們的系統並沒有出問題但是在白天"},{"start":715.285,"end":732.455,"text":"以這樣的速度是往港口裡面進來的時候我們的雷超手根據他們的經驗他們沒有把它當作是偷渡的行徑一般偷渡是會往岸際去躲藏而這一艘船是在大白天要進港"},{"start":733.275,"end":756.001,"text":"所以第一時間誤判為是返港的漁船。報告委員,他們一路監控,但是是以返港漁船的方式監控,所以會發生這樣的事情。到六海里才發現。六海里的時候是一個光點,是雷達上看到的光點,沒有影像。我們這一條船,看左邊的圖,這一條船你可以看黃線,它後來的路徑是到了碼頭,然後上岸。"},{"start":762.383,"end":776.149,"text":"那麼如果按照剛才這個主委所講的,他可以一路長驅直路啊,因為你看到是一個小光點嘛。 然後呢,你們也有這個守望哨,也沒有做任何的動作。"},{"start":777.356,"end":781.761,"text":"指望上要辨識的時候,直接開到淡水河。報告委員,我們需要熱相儀來協助。因為熱相儀可以有影像,就不會有這樣的誤判。"},{"start":797.058,"end":810.21,"text":"發生這個事情,東怪西怪。第一個,人民會議是不是要懲處?懲處不是就是第一線的同仁嗎?有懲處到你嗎?你永遠沒有責任。接下來,你又來說,設備沒有問題,結果又是沒有熱下雨。幹部刺秦處分,我有同意。這件事情我們確實需要警惕,有警惕的部分當然該懲處就要懲處。"},{"start":822.981,"end":843.299,"text":"但是要解決問題,解決問題需要的是科技父親。如果說這個主委永遠都沒有責任,我們不曉得下一次事件在哪裡,那我請問一下部長啊。部長,我們一直在講說首都防衛圈嘛,首都防衛圈,而且我們漢光演習不止一次的"},{"start":843.699,"end":867.374,"text":"在淡水河去做演習,最主要就是要反斬首行動。 我們都在那邊演習,而且我們台北現在也要增加憲兵的人數,就是要固守有關於首都的一個防衛。 這件事情,新任的國防部長,我不曉得有沒有跟你有做軍情報告。"},{"start":868.943,"end":890.688,"text":"這件事情你覺得要如何防範呢?演習是假的嗎?跟委員報告,因為這一個單一的快艇在平時的時候是由海巡所的暗記雷達來掌握海上的情質。那國軍是依照海巡的需求提出資源的需求來派遣。"},{"start":891.203,"end":891.263,"text":"國防部長"},{"start":917.518,"end":946.088,"text":"你們現在的評估我相信你們也要緊急就算你早上都坐在這邊要備詢你們的評估這個事件這麼單純嗎還是真的有可能是一個中共清台的一個測試我說一個採線團我們沒有辦法排除這可能是一種灰色地帶的洗澡那以後要如何防範呢今天我想剛剛主委也特別提到了我們事實上"},{"start":946.843,"end":963.933,"text":"其實我早先在國安會的時候我們也討論到了,除了岸基雷達之外,熱像儀的這個部分也是在我們討論的範圍之內,所以這個部分都要構置來加強。那至於我們在應急作戰階段的這個防衛部署,我想我可能沒有辦法在這邊跟委員透露。"},{"start":964.434,"end":965.034,"text":"報告委員都有著急。"},{"start":993.899,"end":993.919,"text":"院長﹖"},{"start":1011.932,"end":1027.384,"text":"我們對這件事情造成國人心中如果真的擔心不安我們真的感到抱歉但是杜絕這件事情再度的發生絕對是政府最優先的目標我希望各相關的部會能夠確實做到這件事情把它當作一個活生生的教訓"},{"start":1027.924,"end":1056.284,"text":"院長剛才說得很好,要杜絕發聲,我覺得各部會的首長也要把責任擔起來,不要每次發生類似的狀況,這是灰色地帶,這是突發狀況,這狀況跟之前的狀況不一樣,如果說未來的懲處,每一次懲處只有第一線的話,那麼這個是非常不合理的事情,所以院長我早上說的是幹部,幹部跟我自行處分我同意了,"},{"start":1057.108,"end":1080.082,"text":"你自己怎麼不處分自己呢?另外我想請教的這個國防部長,部長我們現在就是美國軍售的延宕是一直大家一直在討論的事情而且希望解決的事情。部長請問一下,現在美方軍售臺灣延宕的金額已經到多少了?您知道嗎?"},{"start":1082.458,"end":1095.966,"text":"我想詳細的數字我這邊沒有辦法跟委員做一個確實說明,我們留置在那邊的應該是累積... 累積多少?你總是要有個大概數吧?你又不是那個... 你是成員新手嗎?"},{"start":1095.966,"end":1099.188,"text":"大概數... 我跟委員講,因為個別的項目不宜細談,大概數大概191美元左右。"},{"start":1101.002,"end":1122.999,"text":"191億美元是好這個你是停留在今年年初的時候因為事實上呢經過了4月5月好像到6月其實呢這個軍售的金額是正在增加中那麼美國智庫卡托研究所他最近5月6月他都有公佈他的公佈的金額事實上已經達到197億"},{"start":1125.06,"end":1144.489,"text":"因為他說在這個5月份開始呢又有這延宕的那所以這一再的延宕當時國防部也說就是我想您也去過美國很多次那麼事實上呢也希望美國的國會後來我們組成所謂的老虎小組"},{"start":1146.175,"end":1169.584,"text":"部長應該知道吧,老虎小組。是,Tiger Team。對,那請問一下,老虎小組成立之後對於我們的軍售的交付有沒有達成任何的進度?從成立以來到現在有沒有因此而使得這個交付能夠如期,然後它有達成任務的,有沒有?"},{"start":1169.924,"end":1185.566,"text":"跟委員報告我覺得可以公開的資訊比如說今年年底以前我們會接受38輛M1A2的戰車那麼今年應該F16的原型機會出來通過飛行測試之後我們寄望在2026年的年底之前"},{"start":1186.127,"end":1187.208,"text":"所以我要講的是"},{"start":1207.952,"end":1221.723,"text":"關於軍售的延宕,我希望我們的國防部甚至外交部都要更積極啊,都要更積極,否則這個老虎小組,老虎沒有發威的話,那就算你是老虎小組、飛龍小組、什麼樣小組"},{"start":1224.192,"end":1227.775,"text":"跟委員報告,我們現在朝另外兩個,第一個就是可能的一個"},{"start":1245.33,"end":1265.478,"text":"共同生產的這個方向來進行。共同生產?所以呢他沒有交付給我們的改成在臺灣生產?我想這個跟我們既定的軍售案沒有關係,這個主要是為了因應未來比如說AI用在軍事方面,然後還有無人載具等等的部分。不過你講的是兩碼是吧?"},{"start":1267.119,"end":1269.381,"text":"對,我現在的意思是說,我們現在已經...報告委員,容我說一句話,這也許牽涉到很多的國際情勢的問題。當國際有一些重大的軍事活動在進行的時候,影響到我們的時間。"},{"start":1285.316,"end":1301.826,"text":"但是我是覺得細節的問題,我們也不要因為在這裡談到太多時程細節,這樣是不是會增加其他的困擾,我想跟部長再去了解。 我還要了解,部長應該要有了解,我的重點是,我從頭到尾都是問overall的事情。"},{"start":1302.446,"end":1313.909,"text":"我沒有問哪一個對不對我沒有問單一的這個品項我要講的是有關於經受延宕案我們也付錢了也同意要賣給我們了那就不應該一直的累積197億已經將近200億了這當然應該要解決"},{"start":1321.931,"end":1339.636,"text":"跟委員報告明年跟後年是我們軍頭的付款的高峰期我相信這個金額會大幅的在明後年大幅的下降我大概只能跟您說明到這個地方這樣子我們希望今年其實就應該有一些成果我請我們經濟部長我剛剛就說我要問部長"},{"start":1354.155,"end":1372.568,"text":"好部長請問一下因為您是從業界轉到官場跟這個院長不一樣他是長久在官場你上任20幾天你覺得你有沒有適應官場的文化你覺得有沒有適應的問題漸漸可以適應漸漸適應剛開始不適應有沒有一種感覺就是不能講真心話的感覺你來自業界嘛應該是講業界的聲音"},{"start":1383.885,"end":1406.614,"text":"有沒有我們都是在講真心話那可是你這個有關核電研議的說法一遍再遍都是真心話嗎報告委員都是真心話你都是真心話雖然可能這個時間點不一樣你說的話不一樣那請問一下部長因為你是來之前大家說你是百億CEO你覺得你在這個位置上可以做多久你有沒有預期你可以做多久好像這一任是4年嘛"},{"start":1413.877,"end":1433.696,"text":"所以準備做四年?我努力。非常好。所以這四年其實可以做很多事情。請珍惜如果你真的準備做四年。因為我本來會覺得你大概可能很快會陣亡。但是你既然要做四年,這四年就非常的重要了。"},{"start":1435.816,"end":1462.281,"text":"部長我記得在經濟委員會我有問過你就是有關於臺灣的供電的這個需求那麼其實你那時候有講你認為在2025年到2028年會出現AI產業的大爆發所以呢我們的這個電力需求量就會大幅的增加那麼你那個時候甚至講說可能還不排除要蓋一個新的電廠"},{"start":1464.406,"end":1488.974,"text":"而且我當時問的時候我就說那麼你會不會排除核電廠你說沒有在你的腦子裡面你覺得這個電廠你並沒有完全去排除核電廠好這個時間暫停一下我也請我們的國發會主委劉主委還有我們的國科會吳主委免得你們坐在那邊怕你們要打瞌睡這麼重要的問題請你們一起來參與"},{"start":1497.93,"end":1515.34,"text":"好部長兩位主委我們有關於AI電力的這個供需你知道在去年的時候臺電就是我們的有關於能源電力的需求原來的估計是年供需就是需求增加2%左右"},{"start":1516.857,"end":1538.609,"text":"但是到今年因為你們喊出AI產業所以他把它變成3%可是我讓你看一下在日本日本政府最新的預估他們也認為在AI產業鏈的一個剛性需求帶動下到了2050年日本的電力需求將增加多達50%他們擴大發電廠是勢在必行這是日本"},{"start":1545.152,"end":1567.698,"text":"韓國的貿易跟工業部他草擬了一個第11個基本電力計劃他目標到2038年要建造三座的大型核電廠還有一座小型的SMR這個其實過去大家也談過了那所以他們的目標是在2038年他70%的電力就要來自於無碳能源所以"},{"start":1571.893,"end":1593.835,"text":"你認為在我們2023到2028進入,2025到2028進入了這個AI產業大爆發,我們台電這樣的這個評估足夠嗎?電力足夠嗎?以目前的這個我們所得到的訊息是足夠的。好,那我來問一下我們的"},{"start":1594.932,"end":1609.582,"text":"主委我們國發會主委主委當時在跟媒體查序的時候你說我覺得你蠻好的你要求台電能夠去估算我們要發展AI產業需要多少電力"},{"start":1610.623,"end":1628.017,"text":"那我想請問一下主委如果日本跟韓國他們都這麼具體的這樣子的成長這麼大幅的成長而且甚至我要蓋多少核電廠我要蓋SMR都已經進入他們的計畫你覺得是他們太誇張還是台電的估計太唬爛報告委員我的看法是2050年是一個預計值"},{"start":1637.27,"end":1640.913,"text":"我們3%會不會太保守好直接講3%會不會太保守放諸四海"},{"start":1652.904,"end":1673.09,"text":"這個數字其實我有參與過經濟部的會議那他們是很認真的在評估也從產業拿到很多的資訊所以我的意見是跟郭部長是一樣的跟郭部長一致所以呢經濟部我們郭部長說這個評估是OK的我剛才講嘛你要做4年這叫檢驗4年"},{"start":1674.85,"end":1694.065,"text":"其實我真的覺得當院長當到部長是很不容易的事情部長我直接說如果我剛才要給你一點時間讓你看你們講一些真心話你們這三位都不是死抱住反核神主牌的如果你們在這個位置上"},{"start":1695.848,"end":1723.318,"text":"一年過去了你會發現沒有什麼不一樣的話其實郭部長我也會覺得讓王美花繼續來當這個部長也沒有差啊幹嘛要換郭智輝呢幹嘛要換企業的聲音呢剩下最後一點時間兩個很重要的委員一句話郭部長除了穩定供電之外他有很多創新的理想沒錯沒錯但是我們可以讓他好好的發揮他在產業界的經驗進到這個部長裡面文化來他也有他應該有的表現"},{"start":1724.598,"end":1741.304,"text":"來自企業界,企業界願意來做部長,你就要讓他能夠真正的發揮他的專業。如果他來自企業,不能講企業界的聲音,不能講企業界的看法,找他來幹嘛呢?我就說,王美花來,有什麼不行。"},{"start":1742.705,"end":1748.032,"text":"我知道啊,就是在這個位置上有政治官場的考量,政治的考量,你就知道啊,讓官員說真心話多麼摯愛難行啊,有沒有感覺?"},{"start":1761.509,"end":1761.869,"text":"因為呢在這個童子賢曾經講啊"},{"start":1780.902,"end":1781.262,"text":"王鴻薇"},{"start":1792.591,"end":1821.161,"text":"河融合在美國準備2030年可以來測試發電。中國大陸也準備2030年來測試發電。最近有一個訊息就是韓國說他們在一次河融合實驗中創了一個世界紀錄說可以這個什麼設施一度然後維持時間達48秒創下世界紀錄所以韓國在做。日本也說日本要定法要制定法律來發展河融合"},{"start":1821.681,"end":1830.374,"text":"因為就如同童子賢說的﹝德和榮和者,德天下﹞但是委員2030年以後的發展解決不了2025年我們面對的問題。"},{"start":1836.132,"end":1860.049,"text":"我們呢,什麼都不做。人家都在做,我們什麼都不做。最後呢,我們要打聽一下,讓你是不是這樣子。所以為什麼在這邊我們特別把我們的兩位主委給寫上來。如果你們真的希望在這個會議上能夠坐一段時間,那麼這就是一個歷史的關鍵時刻。"},{"start":1862.031,"end":1889.39,"text":"如果今天是因為一些政治的關懲啊,好,我先跟你們講啊,你怎麼可以講實話呢?你怎麼可以詢問實答呢?如果這個樣子的話,其實這是會錯失臺灣下一個世代發展的期望。這是我與眾心腸有關於能源的問題,大家糊口婆出,可是我們擔心的是我們的政府。"},{"start":1894.18,"end":1901.868,"text":"好,謝謝王委員、謝謝左院長。下一位請范雲委員。"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:08+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:09+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:09+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:10+08:00","text":"我首先要歡迎內湖高中的同學，因為我自己兩個女兒也是畢業於內湖高中，歡迎你們。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:10+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:11+08:00","text":"請卓院長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:11+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:12+08:00","text":"請卓院長備詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:11.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:12.092000+08:00","text":"王委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:35.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:47.546000+08:00","text":"院長，其實在政治上有時候謠言實在是太多，就如同剛才講到的體育部升格，這個部分事實上在野黨也都有共識，沒有阻擋修法，對不對？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:47.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:48.546000+08:00","text":"我們一定一起來努力，把它促成。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:48.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:49.546000+08:00","text":"在野黨其實是有共識的，沒有阻擋修法，所以真的有太多的謠言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:47:48.367000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:47:50.569000+08:00","text":"另外，今天中午總統府有發布新聞說總統已經正式核可覆議案，院長，我想請問一下，你覺得你是AI內閣還是烽火內閣？","quality":0.469},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:48:16.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:48:17.567000+08:00","text":"我們是行動創新內閣。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:48:18.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:48:18.688000+08:00","text":"行動創新AI內閣。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:48:33.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:48:36.233000+08:00","text":"院長，我為什麼要問你這句話？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:48:50.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:49:19.328000+08:00","text":"其實我們都會期待新的內閣上來應該有很多新的政策、新的願景，但是非常遺憾的是，其實院長還沒有到立法院報告之前就說要對立法院提出覆議案，這個在過去的政壇是非常非常少見，因為提覆議案是非同小可的事情，更何況一個新的內閣剛剛上任，還沒有到立法院就說要提覆議案。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:49:20.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:49:22.890000+08:00","text":"另外，我為什麼要講我非常遺憾？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:49:23.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:49:25.371000+08:00","text":"我們的內閣本來應該是充滿期待的行動創新AI內閣，為什麼變成處處烽火了呢？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:49:31.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:49:45.622000+08:00","text":"前一陣子有關於臺北市警察局長的任命，上週我們也有委員在詢問，在整個任命過程裡面，溝通之間竟然出現了，就是問你，你要咖啡還是茶？","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:49:48.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:49:51.225000+08:00","text":"臺北市說要咖啡，結果你給了茶。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:49:52.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:50:24.230000+08:00","text":"在這個過程裡面戲耍臺北市首都市長，最後造成這樣的不快，雖然其實臺北市還是非常大氣、完全接受了李西河局長，而且蔣萬安市長也沒有拒絕參加他的就任典禮，但這樣的溝通不應該是卓榮泰院長所領導內閣發生的事情，您同不同意？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:50:25.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:50:31.523000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，委員一開始說不希望謠言造成傷害，我覺得這個就不要造成傷害。","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:50:32.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:50:43.231000+08:00","text":"第一個，一直到收到大院的來文之後，我才說要提出覆議，在之前我都沒有說要提出覆議，我都說這是法律給憲政機關的救濟，我沒有說提出覆議。是！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:50:43.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:50:50.796000+08:00","text":"我完全沒有講錯，我說你還沒有到立法院來做施政報告之前，就說要提出覆議，對不對？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:50:50.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:50:51.897000+08:00","text":"我沒有說要提出覆議，我是說依照憲政機關……有啦！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:50:51.897000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:50:56.041000+08:00","text":"這個去查新聞，非常清楚。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:50:56.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:51:06.395000+08:00","text":"剛剛第二個問題，內政部劉部長當天也已經說明清楚了，溝通的過程不是像剛剛委員所陳述的，像外面大家講的那個狀況，她已經講清楚了。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:51:06.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:51:10.120000+08:00","text":"這個是確實的，我有跟蔣萬安市長查證過。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:51:12.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:11.806000+08:00","text":"當然部長上來了，我要講的不只是臺北市，還有最近這兩天在桃園發生的，也就是經濟部去否決了、桃園市撤銷了對於三家固態再生燃料發電廠的許可案，也在地方上造成非常大的爭議，因為地方民眾本來就認為這是高污染的廠商，在這個案子裡面，其實之前經濟部是撤銷推薦函，因為本來是推薦的，後來撤銷了這個推薦函，所以我們不能理解的是，如果經濟部都不願意推薦的廠商、一個高污染的廠商，結果你現在逼著地方政府要硬吃下來，這什麼道理呢？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:11.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:14.188000+08:00","text":"這會不會太「鴨霸」呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:14.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:23.517000+08:00","text":"跟委員再次澄清，沒有任何人逼地方政府一定要吃下哪些個案子，這個事情推薦函的始末，是不是部長能夠說明清楚？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:24.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:25.839000+08:00","text":"我沒有時間再聽你的始末……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:25.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:26.940000+08:00","text":"事實要講清楚啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:28.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:29.082000+08:00","text":"你們有沒有撤銷推薦函？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:29.082000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:31.969000+08:00","text":"經濟部之前是有過。是！","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:31.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:34.250000+08:00","text":"所以經濟部不推薦這些廠商……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:34.250000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:52:35.250000+08:00","text":"應該請部長說明清楚，不是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:52:34.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:10.285000+08:00","text":"但是當桃園市政府根據經濟部的不推薦，廢除這三家廠商的許可之後，你們又作成撤銷桃園市政府的撤銷許可案，我必須說，這樣的狀況其實從臺北市警察局長案，或者是現在桃園SRF案，這是一個高污染的廠商，難道地方政府沒有權力去決定嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:10.285000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:22.554000+08:00","text":"所以院長，我在這邊要整個來跟你討論，我們希望看到新的內閣要有新的願景、新的政策，大家對你們期待很深。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:25.395000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:26.616000+08:00","text":"你上任幾天了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:27.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:29.497000+08:00","text":"二十多天了，對不對？是！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:29.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:50.709000+08:00","text":"二十多天，我們可以看到所有的新聞焦點集中在覆議案，集中在臺北市警察局長的爭議案，現在這兩天又集中在桃園市SRF案，所以院長，我真的覺得你是這樣的人嗎？","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:50.709000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:51.709000+08:00","text":"其實我也有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:50.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:57.173000+08:00","text":"也有集中在打詐四法跟道安的問題，我們都一一在解決，這個是多方面的進行。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:57.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:58.894000+08:00","text":"我們會支持打詐四法。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:59.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:53:59.975000+08:00","text":"其實我今天沒有時間，因為在打詐四法裡面……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:53:59.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:04.638000+08:00","text":"還有剛剛說的體育暨運動發展部，這個大家都要來支持。對！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:04.638000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:05.659000+08:00","text":"這些都沒有問題，我剛剛講我們都支持，其實現在有好的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:05.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:08.481000+08:00","text":"社會會看到的就是這一些，就不是謠言、就不是誤導。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:08.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:22.503000+08:00","text":"我要講的是，我有注意到過去民視「台灣演義」曾經對你個人有一個人物特寫，報導稱你是政壇大師兄。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:22.503000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:24.145000+08:00","text":"不敢當。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:24.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:25.466000+08:00","text":"它是怎麼來形容你呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:27.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:47.742000+08:00","text":"它說你身段柔軟，擅於調和鼎鼐，而且是民進黨黨內輩分高、分量重的人物，被尊稱為「大師兄」，最重要的是你身段柔軟、調和鼎鼐，所以院長，這個介紹的是你嗎？","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:47.742000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:49.664000+08:00","text":"節目中有這樣講，但是身段如何，大家要互相彼此尊重，調和要大家能夠互相理解，否則身段再軟，那這是委屈。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:49.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:50.085000+08:00","text":"院長，你還是你嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:54:50.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:54:52.307000+08:00","text":"是你轉性了，還是說今天是因為你執行了賴總統的意志呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:10.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:14.539000+08:00","text":"每個人有自己的信念跟價值，但是在政治工作上，我們有一定的政策……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:14.539000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:15.539000+08:00","text":"我特別要講喔……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:15.539000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:16.539000+08:00","text":"那我是不是我？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:16.539000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:17.539000+08:00","text":"委員可以繼續觀察。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:15.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:20.161000+08:00","text":"我特別要講，其實不要不能做自己。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:22.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:23.702000+08:00","text":"經濟部長，您可以先回座……謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:23.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:28.963000+08:00","text":"待會我會再跟你討論有關於能源的問題。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:28.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:31.484000+08:00","text":"我覺得一定要做自己才能夠做得好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:32.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:55:38.026000+08:00","text":"好，那我想也請國防部長還有我們的海委會主委到台前來。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:55:40.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:56:41.695000+08:00","text":"昨天端午節，但是發生了一個大家覺得滿不可思議的事情，這個事情就是一艘從福建出發的快艇，而且開船的人根據媒體形容是將近60歲，也不是什麼年輕力壯的小伙子，他一路開，開到了我們的淡水漁人碼頭，在這個過程裡面，他還撞到了我們的交通船，這個引起社會譁然，大家覺得我們首都的防衛圈怎麼會這麼輕率地就讓一個所謂的平民老百姓駕著快艇一路暢行無阻地跑到我們的漁人碼頭，而且他上岸之後還告訴路人說：我要投奔自由，你可以報警。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:56:42.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:56:44.796000+08:00","text":"這不是很扯嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:56:44.796000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:56:46.376000+08:00","text":"這真的是比扯鈴還要扯的事！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:56:46.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:57:12.867000+08:00","text":"好，我要請教管碧玲主委，今天早上您回答媒體說承認有疏失，而且你們說下午也要開人評會，看起來你們會有懲處，但是我要請問的是，這個事件這麼樣地離譜，難道責任只在第一線的同仁嗎？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:57:13.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:57:17.969000+08:00","text":"主委，你自己完全沒有任何的政治責任嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T14:57:17.969000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:57:18.969000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:57:17.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:57:30.863000+08:00","text":"因為在今年2月才剛剛發生金廈的撞船事件，所以我們海巡署到底執法的標準是什麼？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:57:31.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:57:49.977000+08:00","text":"它可以在我們的金廈海域覺得你是非法越線來捕魚，所以就直接去執法，然後這個事情是直接6浬看到了，然後還是沒有任何的動作，直接讓他上岸！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:57:51.778000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:58:05.302000+08:00","text":"我剛才特別講說，因為它曾經衝撞過交通船，老實說啦，它就算不是中共侵臺的一個踩線船，如果他是自殺炸彈客呢？","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:58:05.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:58:09.503000+08:00","text":"如果這個快艇裡面裝有這些爆裂物呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:58:10.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:58:14.364000+08:00","text":"它跟我們交通船擦撞之間，不會發生什麼事故嗎？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:58:14.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:58:20.548000+08:00","text":"如果發生事故，請問主委你還可以安坐在這裡嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:58:20.548000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:58:25.552000+08:00","text":"所以我要請問主委，難道你個人沒有政治責任嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:58:26.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:58:33.479000+08:00","text":"我們的海委會、海巡署到底發生什麼事情，為什麼會連續今年出現這兩個事件呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T14:58:35.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:59:25.136000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，這是兩個完全不一樣的事件，9號發生的這件事情，我們在6浬的地方，因為它是非常小的一艘小艇，大概只有9公尺長，像這樣的小艇，在6浬處就能夠被我們的雷達鎖定，那麼雷達確實是靈敏的，所以我們的系統並沒有出問題，但是在白天，以這樣的速度往港口裡面進來的時候，我們的雷操手根據他們的經驗，沒有把它當作是偷渡的行徑，一般偷渡是會往岸際去躲藏，而這一艘船是在大白天要進港，所以第一時間誤判為是返港的漁船。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T14:59:25.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:59:31.418000+08:00","text":"報告委員，他們一路監控，但是是以返港漁船的方式監控……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:59:31.418000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:59:32.418000+08:00","text":"我要問的是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T14:59:32.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:59:33.958000+08:00","text":"所以會發生這樣的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:59:33.958000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T14:59:36.679000+08:00","text":"都已經到6浬了才發現，我給你看一下……","quality":0.267},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T14:59:36.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T14:59:40.860000+08:00","text":"6浬的時候是一個光點，是雷達上看到的光點，沒有影像。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T14:59:40.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:04.129000+08:00","text":"我們可以看一下左邊圖裡面的黃線，這條船後來的路徑是到了碼頭然後上岸，如果按照剛才主委所講的，它可以一路長驅直入，因為你看到是一個小光點，然後你們有守望哨，也沒有做任何的動作，他直接可以開到……","quality":0.77},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:05.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:06.077000+08:00","text":"守望哨要辨識的時候，海上有30艘船。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:06.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:06.758000+08:00","text":"直接開到淡水河，然後再進來、再深入，直接到總統府附近。","quality":0.304},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:06.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:07.739000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們需要熱像儀來協助，我們非常需要熱像儀來協助……","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:07.739000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:08.739000+08:00","text":"所以現在又怪儀器不夠囉？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:08.739000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:09.739000+08:00","text":"又怪儀器不夠囉？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:08.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:09.741000+08:00","text":"因為熱顯像儀可以有影像，就不會有這樣的誤判。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:25.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:29.542000+08:00","text":"所以主委，發生這個事情，東怪西怪，第一個，人評會是不是要懲處？","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:29.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:31.804000+08:00","text":"懲處不就是第一線的同仁嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:31.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:33.125000+08:00","text":"有懲處到你嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:33.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:33.906000+08:00","text":"你永遠沒有責任……","quality":1},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:33.906000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:34.906000+08:00","text":"不過委員，如果你有聽到我的說法……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:33.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:35.267000+08:00","text":"接下來你又說設備沒問題，結果又是沒有熱像儀！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:35.788000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:37.689000+08:00","text":"幹部自請處分，我有同意，這件事情我們確實需要警惕。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:37.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:38.689000+08:00","text":"那你自己有什麼責任呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:38.689000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:39.689000+08:00","text":"沒有責任？","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:37.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:00:54.885000+08:00","text":"有警惕的部分，當然該懲處就要懲處，但是要解決問題，解決問題需要的是科技服勤。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:00:55.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:01:00.610000+08:00","text":"所以院長你在這邊，如果說主委永遠都沒有責任，我們不曉得下一次的事件在哪裡。","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:01:00.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:01:01.871000+08:00","text":"我請問一下部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:01:02.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:01:39.584000+08:00","text":"部長，我們一直在講首都防衛圈，而且我們漢光演習不只一次在淡水河做演習，最主要就是要反斬首行動，我們都在那邊演習，而且我們臺北現在也要增加憲兵的人數，就是要固守有關於首都的防衛，我不曉有沒有跟新任的國防部長做軍情報告，這件事情你覺得要如何防範呢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:01:40.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:01:42.584000+08:00","text":"演習是假的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:01:42.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:01:58.668000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為單一的快艇在平時的時候是由海巡署的岸際雷達掌握海上的情資，國軍是依照海巡提出的支援需求來派遣。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:01:58.668000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:01:59.668000+08:00","text":"就戰時或者進入緊急應變狀態的時候，有關衛戍的守備，我們會有相關非常綿密的部署，但是這個綿密的部署，我想不適宜在這裡跟委員做過多的說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:01:59.668000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:00.668000+08:00","text":"因為今天早上主委說他根本不相信這是來投奔自由的、投奔中華民國的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:02:00.668000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:01.668000+08:00","text":"這兩年來有11個案子都是同一個劇本。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:02:01.668000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:02.668000+08:00","text":"等一下！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:02:02.668000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:03.668000+08:00","text":"那個我看到媒體了。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:01:59.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:36.842000+08:00","text":"請教國防部長，你們現在的評估，我相信你們也要緊急處理，就算你早上都坐在這邊備詢，你們評估這個事件這麼單純嗎？","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:02:36.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:43.484000+08:00","text":"還是真的有可能是中共侵臺的一個測試？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:02:43.484000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:44.365000+08:00","text":"我說一個踩線團。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:02:44.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:48.386000+08:00","text":"我們沒辦法排除這可能是一種灰色地帶的襲擾，那麼今天……","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:02:48.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:02:49.646000+08:00","text":"以後要如何防範呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:02:50.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:05.209000+08:00","text":"今天我想剛剛主委有特別提到了，其實我早先在國安會的時候，我們也討論到了，除了岸際雷達之外，熱像儀的部分也在我們討論的範圍之內，所以這部分都要購置來加強。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:05.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:11.913000+08:00","text":"至於我們在應急作戰階段的防衛部署，我可能沒辦法在這邊跟委員透露，但第3作戰區今天已經召集海巡署來針對這些不明……","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:11.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:12.913000+08:00","text":"你說誰？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:12.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:13.913000+08:00","text":"國安局還是國安會？","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:13.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:14.913000+08:00","text":"第3作戰區、我們的第3作戰區。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:14.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:15.913000+08:00","text":"我們會會同海巡署就不明船隻的動態來掌握，有關……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:15.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:16.913000+08:00","text":"這個部分應該是立刻的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:16.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:17.913000+08:00","text":"對，來實施檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:17.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:18.913000+08:00","text":"應該是由國安單位來召集。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:18.913000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:19.913000+08:00","text":"未來像這類的事件，絕對不能再發生，對不對？是。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:12.434000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:12.754000+08:00","text":"報告委員，都有召集。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:12.754000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:24.548500+08:00","text":"不能發生嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:24.548500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:36.343000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:36.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:48.137500+08:00","text":"昨天這樣看，大家不是覺得很離譜嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:48.137500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:03:59.932000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告一下，這件事情是一個突發狀況，但是是一個活生生的教訓，我會要求國防部、海委會用這個教訓對未來即刻展開更嚴密的檢討。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:03:59.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:04:15.384000+08:00","text":"我們對這件事情如果造成國人心中擔心、不安，我們真的感到抱歉，但是杜絕這件事情再度發生，絕對是政府最優先的目標，我希望各相關部會能確實做到這件事情，把它當作一個活生生的教訓。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:04:15.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:04:40.461000+08:00","text":"院長剛才說得很好，要杜絕發生，我覺得各部會首長也要把責任擔起來，不要每次發生類似的狀況就說這是灰色地帶、這是突發狀況，這個狀況跟之前的狀況不一樣，如果未來的懲處、每一次的懲處只有第一線的話，這是非常不合理的事情，所以院長，拜託！","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:04:40.461000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:04:41.461000+08:00","text":"說到做到。","quality":0},{"speaker":"管主任委員碧玲","start":"2024-06-11T15:04:40.461000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:04:44.264000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我早上說的是幹部，幹部跟我自請處分，我同意了。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:04:45.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:04:46.429000+08:00","text":"那你自己怎麼不處分自己呢？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:04:47.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:05:00.718000+08:00","text":"另外，我想請教國防部長，現在美國軍售的延宕是大家一直在討論的事情，而且希望解決的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:05:02.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:05:08.082000+08:00","text":"部長，請問一下，現在美方軍售臺灣延宕的金額已經到多少了，您知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:05:11.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:05:18.943000+08:00","text":"詳細的數字我這邊沒有辦法跟委員做確實說明，我們留置在那邊的應該是累積到……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:05:18.943000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:05:20.064000+08:00","text":"累積多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:05:20.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:05:21.865000+08:00","text":"你總是要有個大概數吧！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:05:22.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:05:23.746000+08:00","text":"你又不全然是新手啊！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:05:24.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:05:27.168000+08:00","text":"我跟委員講，因為個別的項目不宜細談，大概的數字是191億美元左右。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:05:29.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:05:29.322000+08:00","text":"191億美元？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:05:31.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:14.915000+08:00","text":"這個你是停留在今年年初的時候，因為事實上經過了4月、5月，現在到6月，其實這個軍售金額正在增加中，那麼美國智庫卡托研究所最近5月、6月都有公布，它公布的金額事實上已經達到197億，因為它說在5月份開始又有延宕的，所以一再地延宕，當時國防部也說，我想您也去過美國很多次，事實上也希望美國的國會，後來組成所謂的老虎小組，部長，老虎小組應該知道吧？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:16.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:18.637000+08:00","text":"是，TIGER Team。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:18.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:27.200000+08:00","text":"對，請問一下，老虎小組成立之後，對於我們軍售的交付有沒有達成任何的進度？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:28.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:37.564000+08:00","text":"從成立以來到現在，有沒有因此而使得這個交付能夠如期，然後它有達成任務的，有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:37.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:53.546000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我覺得可以公開的資訊，譬如說，今年年底以前，我們會接受38輛M1A2戰車，那麼今年應該F-16的原型機會出來，通過飛行測試之後，我們寄望在2026年的年底之前，66架可以全部交運。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:53.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:54.546000+08:00","text":"我知道這個是因為F-16要明（2026）年……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:54.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:55.546000+08:00","text":"2026年的年底。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:55.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:56.546000+08:00","text":"2026年會全數交機嘛！200架……","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:56.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:57.546000+08:00","text":"是，這是我們……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:57.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:58.546000+08:00","text":"當然這個還有待會我們會討論到。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:58.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:06:59.546000+08:00","text":"66架，我們期待是這樣子。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:59.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:07:00.546000+08:00","text":"對，全部66架，我們一共會達到200架。","quality":0},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:07:00.546000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:07:01.546000+08:00","text":"M1A 2我們也希望能夠……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:06:54.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:07:29.723000+08:00","text":"好，所以我要講的是，有關於軍售的延宕，我希望國防部，甚至外交部，都要更積極，否則這個老虎小組老虎沒有發威的話，就算你是老虎小組、飛龍小組，什麼樣小組都沒有用，所以部長能不能更積極一些，有關於對於美國軍售延宕的部分，我們可以更積極地讓老虎小組能夠發威、能夠達成效果呢？","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:07:32.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:07:55.711000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們現在朝另外兩個，第一個就是可能的一個共同生產的方向來進行……","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:07:56.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:07:57.392000+08:00","text":"共同生產？","quality":1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:07:57.392000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:07:58.392000+08:00","text":"對，彌補……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:07:57.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:01.173000+08:00","text":"所以他沒有交付給我們的改成在臺灣生產，可能嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:02.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:12.558000+08:00","text":"這跟我們既定的軍售案沒有關係，這個主要是為了因應未來，譬如說AI用在軍事方面，然後還有無人載具等等的部分，我們希望以……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:12.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:13.338000+08:00","text":"不過，你講的是兩碼事吧！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:13.338000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:15.119000+08:00","text":"就是有一些在臺灣生產……","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:15.119000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:15.359000+08:00","text":"對，我現在意思就是說……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:15.359000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:16.359000+08:00","text":"跟我向美國去買，然後它到現在還沒有交付給我的，這應該是兩碼事吧！","quality":0.103},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:16.359000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:17.359000+08:00","text":"那是兩碼子事。","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:15.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:16.941000+08:00","text":"報告委員，容我說一句話，這也許牽扯到很多國際情勢的問題，當國際有些重大的軍事活動在進行的時候……","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:16.941000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:17.941000+08:00","text":"有烏克蘭……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:16.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:39.760000+08:00","text":"會影響到我們的時間，但是我覺得細節的問題，我們也不要因為在這裡談到太多時程細節，這樣是不是會增加其他的困擾，我想……","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:39.760000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:40.760000+08:00","text":"我剛才有講……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:39.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:41.681000+08:00","text":"可以跟部長再去瞭解。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:41.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:43.702000+08:00","text":"我要……還瞭解？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:43.702000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:44.702000+08:00","text":"不是，這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:44.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:08:52.727000+08:00","text":"部長應該要有瞭解，我的重點是，我從頭到尾都是問over all的事情，我沒有問哪一個，對不對？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:08:52.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:01.909000+08:00","text":"我沒有問單一的品項，我要講的是有關於軍售延宕案，我們也付錢了，也同意要賣給我們了，那就不應該一直累積，197億已經將近200億了，這當然應該要解決。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"顧部長立雄","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:09.931000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:21.434000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，明年跟後年是我們軍投付款的高峰期，我相信這個金額會在明、後年大幅的下降，我大概只能跟您說明到這個地方。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:22.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:26.035000+08:00","text":"我們希望今年其實就應該有一些成果。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:26.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:27.636000+08:00","text":"我請經濟部長，我剛剛就說我要問部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:42.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:54.624000+08:00","text":"部長，請問一下，因為您是從業界轉到官場，跟院長不一樣，他是長久在官場，你上任二十幾天，你覺得你有沒有適應官場的文化？","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:55.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:56.185000+08:00","text":"你覺得有沒有適應的問題？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:56.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:56.225000+08:00","text":"漸漸可以適應。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:56.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:56.445000+08:00","text":"漸漸適應，剛開始不適應？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:56.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:09:58.327000+08:00","text":"有沒有一種感覺，就是不能講真心話的感覺？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:09:58.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:12.105000+08:00","text":"你來自業界嘛，應該是講業界的聲音，有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:12.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:15.126000+08:00","text":"我們都是在講真心話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:15.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:19.848000+08:00","text":"可是你有關核電延役的說法一變再變，都是真心話嗎？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:19.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:22.189000+08:00","text":"報告委員，都是真心話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:22.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:26.451000+08:00","text":"好，你都是真心話，雖然可能時間點不一樣，你說的話不一樣。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:26.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:33.334000+08:00","text":"請問一下部長，因為你來之前，大家說你是百億CEO，你覺得你在這個位置上可以做多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:33.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:34.294000+08:00","text":"你有沒有預期你可以做多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:34.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:34.594000+08:00","text":"好像這一任是4年嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:41.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:42.558000+08:00","text":"所以準備做4年？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:44.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:44.560000+08:00","text":"我努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:45.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:58.894000+08:00","text":"好，非常好，所以這4年其實可以做很多事情，請珍惜，如果你真的準備做4年，因為我本來覺得你可能很快會陣亡啦，但是你既然要做4年……","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:58.894000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:10:59.995000+08:00","text":"委員，言重了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:10:59.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:11:01.676000+08:00","text":"這4年就非常地重要了。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:11:03.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:11:44.770000+08:00","text":"部長，我記得在經濟委員會我有問過你，就是有關於臺灣的供電需求，其實你那時候有講，你認為在2025年到2028年會出現AI產業的大爆發，所以我們的電力需求量就會大幅增加，你那個時候甚至講說可能還不排除要蓋一個新的電廠，而且我當時問你的時候，我就說你會不會排除核電廠，你說沒有，在你的腦子裡面，你覺得這個電廠並沒有完全排除核電廠。","quality":0.993},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:11:44.770000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:11:56.974000+08:00","text":"好，時間暫停一下，我也請我們的國發會劉主委還有國科會吳主委，免得你們坐在那邊，怕你們要打瞌睡，這麼重要的問題，請你們一起來參與。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:12:05.930000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:12:30.560000+08:00","text":"好，部長、兩位主委，有關AI的電力供需，你知道在去年的時候，台電對於有關能源電力的需求，原來的估計是年供需的需求增加2%左右，但是到今年，因為你們喊出AI產業嘛，所以它把它變成3%。","quality":0.911},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:12:30.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:12:46.589000+08:00","text":"可是我讓你看一下，日本政府最新的預估，他們也認為在AI產業鏈的剛性需求帶動下，到了2050年日本的電力需求將增加多達50%，他們擴大發電廠是勢在必行，這是日本。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:12:53.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:13:15.498000+08:00","text":"另外，韓國的貿易與工業部草擬了第11個基本電力計畫，目標到2038年要建造三座大型核電廠，還有一座小型的SMR，這個其實過去大家也談過了，所以他們的目標是在2038年70%的電力就要來自於無碳能源。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:13:15.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:13:34.368000+08:00","text":"所以部長，你認為我們在2025年到2028年進入AI產業大爆發，台電這樣的電力評估足夠嗎？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-11T15:13:35.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:13:40.093000+08:00","text":"以目前我們所得到的訊息是足夠的。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:13:40.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:14:14.356000+08:00","text":"那我來問一下我們國發會主委，主委當時在跟媒體茶敘的時候，我覺得你滿好的，你要求台電去估算我們要發展AI產業需要多少電力，我想請問一下主委，如果日本跟韓國他們都這麼具體地預估這麼大幅的成長，而且甚至要蓋多少核電廠、要蓋SMR都已經進入他們的計畫，你覺得是他們太誇張，還是台電的估計太唬爛？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-11T15:14:14.356000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:14:15.997000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我的看法是2050年是一個預計值，離現在大概至少有五十幾年以上的歷史，所以這個預估很難判斷是對或錯……","quality":0.34},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:14:25.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:14:25.850000+08:00","text":"3%會不會太保守？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:14:25.971000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:14:28.492000+08:00","text":"好，直接講，放諸四海，我們3%會不會太保守？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-11T15:14:40.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:14:50.667000+08:00","text":"這個數字其實我有參與過經濟部的會議，他們是很認真地在評估，也從產業拿到很多的資訊，所以我的意見跟郭部長是一樣的。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:14:51.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:14:57.509000+08:00","text":"跟郭部長一致，所以經濟部郭部長說這個評估是OK的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:14:58.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:32.431000+08:00","text":"我剛才講你要做4年，這要檢驗4年，其實我真的覺得當院長、當到部長是很不容易的事情，部長，我直接說，我剛才給你一點時間，看你能不能講一些真心話，你們這三位都不是死抱住反核神主牌的，如果你們在這個位置上一年過去了，如果你發現沒有什麼不一樣的話，其實郭部長我也會覺得，讓王美花繼續來當這個部長也沒有差啊！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:33.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:34.212000+08:00","text":"幹嘛要換郭智輝呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:35.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:36.372000+08:00","text":"幹嘛要換企業的聲音呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:37.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:39.634000+08:00","text":"剩下最後一點時間，講一個很重要的……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:39.714000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:43.115000+08:00","text":"委員，一句話，郭部長除了穩定供電之外，他有很多創新的理念……","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:43.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:43.955000+08:00","text":"沒錯、沒錯！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:43.955000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:44.955000+08:00","text":"但是這個部分很重要。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:44.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:51.318000+08:00","text":"我們可以讓他好好地發揮他在產業界的經驗，進到部長文化裡面，他也有他應該有的表現。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:52.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:56.440000+08:00","text":"院長，來自企業界，企業界願意來做這個部長不容易！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:56.440000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:15:57.440000+08:00","text":"非常感謝！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:15:56.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:07.184000+08:00","text":"你就要讓他能夠真正發揮他的專業，如果他來自企業，不能講企業界的聲音、不能講企業界的看法，找他來幹嘛呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:07.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:09.284000+08:00","text":"我就說王美花來沒有什麼不行！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:09.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:10.284000+08:00","text":"最後一點點時間……","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:10.284000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:11.284000+08:00","text":"我們會善用企業的效率，但是政府部門有政府公部門的考量，這個他正在很清楚地瞭解當中。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:10.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:15.391000+08:00","text":"我知道啊，就是在這個位置上有政治官場的考量、政治的考量，你就知道讓官員說真心話多麼窒礙難行啊！","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:15.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:16.032000+08:00","text":"有沒有感覺？","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:16.032000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:24.979800+08:00","text":"沒有，部長提出的數據都非常精準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:24.979800+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:33.927600+08:00","text":"你們回去午夜夢迴會覺得：講這些話真的窒礙難行！","quality":0},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:33.927600+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:42.875400+08:00","text":"需要的電量800、新增的有910萬，這個都非常清楚，這個也是部長在努力的工作。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:42.875400+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:16:51.823200+08:00","text":"因為說要做4年，我就要特別說，童子賢曾經講：能夠得到核融合者可以得天下。","quality":0.258},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:16:51.823200+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:00.771000+08:00","text":"我們能不能得天下呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:00.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:21.038000+08:00","text":"我們來看一下，核融合在美國準備2030年可以來測試發電、中國大陸也準備2030年來測試發電；最近有一個訊息就是，韓國說他們在一次核融合實驗中創了一個世界紀錄，可以攝氏1億度然後維持時間達48秒，創下世界紀錄。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:21.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:34.328000+08:00","text":"所以韓國在做、日本也說要訂法，要制定法律來發展核融合，因為就如同童子賢說的：得核融合者得天下。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:34.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:44.272000+08:00","text":"但是委員，2030年以後的發展解決不了2025年我們面臨到的問題，我們現在只有多元的發展綠能。","quality":0.639},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:44.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:45.073000+08:00","text":"按照你的說法，我們什麼都不做……","quality":0.308},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:45.073000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:46.554000+08:00","text":"我們都在做！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:46.554000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:49.356000+08:00","text":"人家都在做，我們什麼都不做……","quality":1},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:49.356000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:50.356000+08:00","text":"都在做！","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:49.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:54.420000+08:00","text":"最後我們要把天下讓給別人，是不是這樣子？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:54.420000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:17:55.420000+08:00","text":"不會，我們都在做、我們都在做。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:17:55.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:08.029000+08:00","text":"所以為什麼我特別在這邊把兩位主委也請上來，如果你們真的希望在這個位置上能夠做一段時間，那麼這就是一個歷史的關鍵時刻，對不對？","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:18:10.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:18.056000+08:00","text":"如果你今天是因為一些政治、官場，或者有些立委跟你講：你怎麼可以講實話呢？","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:18:18.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:19.317000+08:00","text":"你怎麼可以實問實答呢？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:18:19.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:27.223000+08:00","text":"如果這個樣子的話，其實這會錯失臺灣下一個世代發展的契機。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:18:28.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:34.128000+08:00","text":"這是我語重心長有關於能源的問題，大家苦口婆心！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2024-06-11T15:18:35.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:37.370000+08:00","text":"可是我們擔心的是我們的政府冥頑不靈！","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"卓院長榮泰","start":"2024-06-11T15:18:37.370000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:42.180000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的提醒，我們會注重總體。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-06-11T15:18:42.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:48.046000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝王委員、謝謝卓院長。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-06-11T15:18:48.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-11T15:18:49.868000+08:00","text":"下一位請范雲委員質詢。","quality":0.8}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}