{"error":false,"id":["153807"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153807,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153807","日期":"2024-06-12","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-16","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":16,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-12T09:39:51+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-12T09:51:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:27","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/4f10fa8b3f7cd81961bf8b24b14e4da00fec08313b105ec0139eec4d40364b4f2100f0c7800c801b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"09:39:51 - 09:51:18","會議時間":"2024-06-12T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、數位發展部首長、教育部首長就「為掌握生成式AI等關鍵技術帶來的產業革命機會，台灣要如何深化AI生態系及充實AI人才與產業AI化，促動台灣產業數位轉型與運用AI賦能升級，擴展產業發展，打造智慧未來」進行報告，並備質詢。【6月12日及6月13日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":212,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（9時40分）謝謝主席，召委，我們請主委。"],["主席：我們再請國發委主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：委員早。"],["陳委員亭妃：主委，我想我第一次也是在這個地方，當時我跟你談的就是AI的研發中心，也就是黃仁勳執行長他一直希望在臺南、在高雄有一個AI研發中心，所以我們也希望國發會要怎麼樣去掌握這樣的訊息，然後我們要怎麼去push，然後把這樣一個所謂的AI研發中心可以留在臺南，現在我們也希望它擴大變成生態園區，這是現在政府非常重要的一個指標，叫生態園區。可是這個生態園區，我相信在臺南的部分，我們有很多，包括綠能科技產業園區，也就是在沙崙，然後再加上我們的南科，再加上我們目前所有的一些電力、水力的部分，在整個條件當中，我們認為設在臺南是非常適當的，可是針對AI生態園區，到底現在我們的目標在哪裡？重點在哪裡？預算在哪裡？數發部一下子說要實體，一下子說可以虛擬，然後國科會說他們都可以配合，因為他們本來在南科園區就有這樣一個所謂相關AI的產業，所以他們沒有問題，那國發會呢？你們的態度是如何？你們的態度是如何？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們的態度現在是積極的跟數發部、國科會，我們一起來合作啦，臺南的部分的確像委員所講的，我很佩服委員，您一直在爭取臺南，然後也一直把臺南的優勢不斷地讓我們清楚，所以我們現在感受得也很深。我們現在在評估階段，我們一定不會忘記委員特別一直跟我們強調的臺南的好處，我們會認真的來考慮這一點。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為現在整個護國神山所有它的機能，還有它所有的零星產業，基本上都落腳在臺南，而且我們有我們的腹地，所以如果在這樣的前提之下，我覺得我們的態度要更確認，到底AI的生態園區，它是要實體還是虛擬？實體跟虛擬不一樣耶。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我們現在是這樣子，實體跟虛擬都會同時存在的原因是，在AI的世界裡面，它必須串聯全世界，所以我們除了會建立實體的中心之外，我們也會，我想數發部也積極在建立一個國際脈絡的聯網，包括讓沒辦法進入園區的一些單位也都可以參與進來，變成一個整合性的虛實整合的AI生態園區。"],["陳委員亭妃：那土地重不重要？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：土地重要啊，就是有實體的地方可以做更好的討論。"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以這兩者會同時並行，就我的了解。"],["陳委員亭妃：土地重要？那經費呢？經費來源呢？國發基金。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：經費來源我們現在是，第一個，國發基金，我們現在正在作業中啦，如果得到核准的話，我們會有100億投到這個領域來，至於硬體的部分……"],["陳委員亭妃：所以我們現在預估，在AI生態園區，在實體的部分，我們預計要投入的是國發基金100億的預算？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：而且100億主要是在投資創新創業，就是進駐廠商，還有虛擬進駐廠商的投資。至於硬體的部分，其實現在因為公建預算正在審核當中，我們也請各單位儘快的提出來，進入我們的審核程序。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以主委，你的意思是說，國發基金這100億，我們是希望創新創業進入到這樣一個實體的生態園區，然後在其他各部會的部分，我們還會再另外編列相關的預算？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：然後進入到這個AI的方向，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以不止100億？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不止，公建預算是另計，那現在等實體，我們是審核單位，所以我們有幾個單位在規劃上面，從國科會跟數發部，他們會送上這樣一個公建計畫，在於實體的建設上……"],["陳委員亭妃：所以國科會是負責實體，然後數發部是負責虛擬，是這樣的意思嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒有，他們都會有實體的運作。"],["陳委員亭妃：都有實體的運作？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：那你要瞭解數發部，數發部最近所講的並不是如此，它所講的是它要把實體變虛擬。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：也許是不是可以讓數發部次長來說明？"],["陳委員亭妃：次長，到底你們現在的態度是什麼？如果以主委所說的，我們是實體跟虛擬同步並進，可是你們最近在媒體當中所講的被誤解為實體要變虛擬，你們負責的是虛擬。"],["林次長宜敬：是，跟委員報告，因為在政府的分工上面，國發會會負責包含臺灣的硬體產業及軟體產業，而我們數發部負責的是軟體產業，然後軟體產業有一個特性……"],["陳委員亭妃：對嘛，所以你們數發部負責的就是在虛擬的部分嘛。"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：實體也有嗎？"],["林次長宜敬：實體的部分，因為我們現在的重點是在於生態，而不在於園區，軟體產業的特性是：第一個，上下游產業之間並沒有零組件運輸的需求，所以上下游的產業並不需要在同一個地方；再來，軟體產業現在遠距上班也都是常見的現象，所以我們……"],["陳委員亭妃：所以次長你的意思是，你們數發部負責的就是虛擬的部分？"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以沒有實體的部分？"],["林次長宜敬：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：對不對？"],["林次長宜敬：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：主委，所以就有一點不一樣了，我們現在看到的確實是如此，數發部從實體變虛擬。現在實體聚落的部分、實體生態園區到底是誰在負責？國科會嗎？國科會也講得有一點保守，它說他們的產業園區都可以配合，他們是就目前的狀態，但是如果依照主委所講的，我們是要做大，除了國發基金以外，我們還有公建計畫，這是不同的，所以我們的方向到底怎麼拿捏？國科會，實體的部分是你們負責的嗎？"],["林副主任委員法正：是。跟委員報告，基本上我們還是會以沙崙為中心點，因為目前它整個開發其實還不如預期，所以委員您剛剛所談到的這些，未來會有一個data center，裡面會有超級電腦，專門做AI的研究；另外，剛才委員所提到的AI生態園區也應該會以沙崙為中心，然後再往南部擴散，目前都還在規劃中。以上報告。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為沙崙有中央研究院南部院區，又有國科會相關的研發地點，所以我們看到的是綠能科技產業園區在沙崙，把這塊土地放在這裡是很可惜的，還有成大、交通大學這些研發的能量都在裡面，但是並沒有發揮呀！所以我為什麼要爭取AI的生態園區設在臺南？當然就是在沙崙這個區塊嘛！從過去到現在我們看到的是能量沒有發揮，如果是這樣子的話，再加上有些隱形產業，我們必須是實體跟虛擬並進，是不是？一個負責實體，一個負責虛擬，這樣才對嘛！然後國發會是know-how、做串聯，是不是這樣子？"],["林副主任委員法正：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以我們期待的AI生態園區除了有像黃仁勳執行長所說的，它必須是AI的研發中心，它可以併進來，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：嗯。"],["陳委員亭妃：它可以讓1加1大於2。如果有這樣一個生態園區，再投注原本預期的計畫及目標，對我們來講是加分，所以我覺得AI生態園區在整個地理位置、經費當中最適合的就是臺南，就在沙崙，這非常地清楚，主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝委員，我會負責整合兩個部會的結果，再跟您報告。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，再拜託。還有一個部分，我們……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對於您的誠意我們一直感受很深。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為我覺得我們臺南欠缺的就是一個整合，如果把它整合起來，我們的能量是無限大，我們有那個條件，但是缺了一個整合。","我覺得今天有一點還是要澄清清楚。請問經濟部部長，外媒說臺灣缺電會衝擊全球的產業，基本上我覺得今天起碼臺灣的經濟能量、企業能量是被外媒所看到的，這個對我們來講是好的，可是因為被看到，大家會擔心我們是不是會有缺電的問題。部長，我們應該準備好了，尤其我們現在要投注AI，AI的用電非常大，這個部分我們準備好了沒？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，準備好了。"],["陳委員亭妃：準備好了，所以我們不會像外媒所講的，會因為缺電而影響到我們整個全球產業……因為大家已經把臺灣變成是一個全球產業、包括半導體的指標了，這對我們來講其實是非常棒的，可是他們擔心，我們要把他們的擔心斷絕，臺灣電的部分沒有問題，是不是這樣？"],["郭部長智輝：是的，缺電影響全球是事實，但是我們沒有缺電。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們沒有缺電，我們準備好了，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：我們在準備，應該是好的。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，我想AI產業如果進到整個整合的體系當中，電、水永遠都是最重要的，再麻煩部長。謝謝。"],["郭部長智輝：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請邱議瑩委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-16","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張啓楷","謝衣鳯","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張嘉郡","邱志偉","陳超明","賴瑞隆","賴士葆","鍾佳濱","陳培瑜","林宜瑾","蔡易餘","羅智強","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","陳冠廷"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2024-06-12"],"gazette_id":"1136201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136201_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員、經濟部部長、國家科學及技術委員會首長、數位發展部首長、教\n育部首長就「為掌握生成式 AI 等關鍵技術帶來的產業革命機會，台灣要如何深化 AI 生態系及充\n實 AI 人才與產業 AI 化，促動台灣產業數位轉型與運用 AI 賦能升級，擴展產業發展，打造智慧\n未來」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1136201_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":0.06471875,"end":2.41034375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":6.98346875,"end":10.62846875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":11.539718750000002,"end":12.855968750000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":19.133468750000002,"end":19.57221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":19.57221875,"end":22.187843750000003,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":22.49159375,"end":24.11159375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":24.246593750000002,"end":25.86659375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":25.96784375,"end":57.92909375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":58.13159375,"end":65.13471875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":65.48909375000001,"end":76.66034375000001,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":77.38596875,"end":84.22034375000001,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":84.52409375,"end":84.94596875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":85.57034375,"end":90.90284375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":91.40909375000001,"end":104.03159375000001,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":104.72346875000001,"end":116.40096875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":117.00846875,"end":119.96159375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":121.54784375000001,"end":122.72909375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.16784375,"end":125.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.96909375000001,"end":152.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":152.34471875,"end":156.17534375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":156.42846875,"end":156.93471875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":157.32284375,"end":163.66784375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":163.95471875,"end":166.30034375000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":167.00909375,"end":169.20284375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":169.52346875,"end":176.94846875000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":178.19721875000002,"end":179.85096875000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.12096875,"end":180.37409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.47534375,"end":206.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":206.26034375,"end":207.50909375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.61034375000003,"end":216.03096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":212.50409375,"end":213.06096875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":215.38971875000001,"end":218.22471875000002,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.61284375000002,"end":219.89534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":218.96721875,"end":219.84471875000003,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":220.35096875000002,"end":232.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":231.13409375,"end":240.48284375000003,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":240.48284375000003,"end":259.90596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":260.12534375,"end":261.99846875000003,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":262.40346875,"end":277.10159375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":270.58784375,"end":270.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":277.21971875,"end":277.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":277.69221875,"end":280.76346875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.01659375,"end":281.30346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":281.50596875,"end":282.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":281.57346875,"end":283.49721875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":283.69971875000005,"end":301.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":300.91221875,"end":307.05471875,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":306.68346875000003,"end":310.22721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"陳委員亭妃","start":310.32846875,"end":311.72909375,"speaker_score":0.89},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":311.17221875,"end":312.032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教委我們請主委我們再請國防委主委"},{"start":19.141,"end":49.021,"text":"委員長主委我想我第一次也在這個地方我跟你談的就是AI的研發中心也就是黃仁勳執行長他一直希望就是說在台南在高雄有一個AI研發中心所以我們也希望說我們的國發會要怎麼樣去掌握這樣的訊息然後我們要怎麼去push然後把這樣的一個所謂AI的研發中心可以留在台南"},{"start":50.302,"end":76.375,"text":"我們也希望現在擴大變成生態園區這是我們現在政府所非常重要的一個指標叫生態園區可是這個生態園區我相信在台南的部分我們有很多包括綠能科技產業園區也就是在沙崙然後再加上我們的南科"},{"start":77.415,"end":103.489,"text":"那再加上我們目前所有的一些電一些水利的部分在整個的條件當中我們認為在台南是非常適當的那可是我們的AI生態園區到底我們現在我們的目標在哪裡重點在哪裡預算在哪裡速發部一下子說要實體一下子說可以虛擬"},{"start":104.79,"end":119.819,"text":"然後呢國科會說他們都可以配合因為他們本來在南科園區就有這樣的一個所謂相關AI的產業他們沒有問題那國發會呢你們的態度是如何你們的態度是如何"},{"start":123.203,"end":151.556,"text":"我們的態度現在是積極的跟數發部跟國科會我們一起在合作那台南的部分的確像委員講的我想委員我很佩服您這一直在爭取台南然後也一直在把台南的優勢不斷的讓我們清楚所以我們現在感受的也很深那我們會去在最後評估我們現在在評估階段我們一定不會忘記委員特別一直跟我們銷售的台南的好處我們會認真的來考慮這一點"},{"start":152.403,"end":175.605,"text":"因為現在整個護國神山的所有它的機能還有它所有的零星產業基本上都落腳在台南而且我們有我們的腹地所以如果在這樣的一個前提之下我覺得我們的態度要更確認說到底AI的生態園區它是要實體還是虛擬"},{"start":178.637,"end":205.454,"text":"實體跟虛擬不一樣我們現在是這樣子實體跟虛擬都會同時存在的原因是在AI的世界裡面它必須串聯全世界所以我們除了會建立實體的中心之外我們也會我想數位發展部也在積極的建立一個國際的脈絡的聯網包括讓沒辦法進入園區的一些單位也都可以參與進來變成一個整合性的一個趨勢整合的一個AI生態園區"},{"start":206.314,"end":217.248,"text":"那土地重要嗎?土地重要就是有私底的地方可以做更好的討論那所以這兩者會同時並行土地重要經費呢?那經費來源呢?"},{"start":219.406,"end":239.239,"text":"經費來源是第一個國家基金我們現在正在作業中如果得到核准的話我們會有100億投到這個領域來所以我們現在預估在AI生態園區在實體的部分我們預計要投入的是國家發展基金100億的預算"},{"start":240.86,"end":259.637,"text":"而且100億主要是在投資創新創業就是進駐廠商還有在虛擬進駐廠商的投資那硬體的部分其實現在因為公建預算正在審核當中那我們也請各單位盡快的提出來進入我們的審核程序"},{"start":260.228,"end":283.1,"text":"所以主委你的意思是說國發基金這一百億我們是希望創新創業進入到這樣的一個實體的生態園區然後在其他各部會的我們還會再去另外編列相關的預算然後進入到這個AI的方向是不是所以不只一百億"},{"start":283.74,"end":309.27,"text":"不只,它這個工建預算是另計那現在在等實體,我們是審核單位所以我們有幾個單位在規劃上面從國科會跟數發部他們會送上這樣的一個工建計畫那在於實體的所以國科會是負責實體然後數發部是負責虛擬是這樣意思嗎?沒有,他們都有都會有實體的運作"},{"start":310.43,"end":321.78,"text":"都有實體的運作那你要了解速發部的速發部最近他所講的並不是如此他所講的是他要把實體變虛擬也許是不是可以讓速發部次長來說明"},{"start":328.871,"end":341.869,"text":"到底你們現在的態度是什麼如果以主委所說的我們是實體然後跟虛擬同步並進可是你們最近在媒體當中所講的是被誤解說實體要變虛擬你們負責的是虛擬"},{"start":346.255,"end":351.58,"text":"是 跟委員報告因為在政府的分工上面國發會這邊會負責包含台灣的硬體產業跟軟體產業而我們數發部負責的是軟體產業然後軟體產業一個特性對嘛 所以你們數發部負責的就是在虛擬的部分嗎是實體用嗎"},{"start":364.752,"end":384.725,"text":"實體的部分因為我們現在重點是在於生態而不在於園區那軟體產業的特性是第一個就是上下游產業之間並沒有零組件的運輸的需求所以上下游的這些產業並不需要在同一個地方再來就是說在軟體產業現在遠距上班也都是一種常見的現象所以我們這個"},{"start":385.666,"end":404.809,"text":"所以市長你的意思就是說是你們數發部負責就是虛擬的部分是所以沒有實體的部分是對不對好那主委所以就有一點不一樣囉所以我們現在看到的確實是如此嘛數發部從實體變虛擬好那現在實體聚落的部分實體生態園區到底是誰在負責國科會嗎國科會也講的有一點保守欸他說我們的"},{"start":416.812,"end":437.026,"text":"這個產業園區我們都可以配合他們是就他們目前目前的狀態那我們如果依照主委所講的我們是要做到我們是要做到我們除了國發基金以外我們還有公建計劃這是沒工的所以我們的方向到底怎麼拿捏來 國科會"},{"start":442.723,"end":465.245,"text":"實體的部分你們負責的嗎跟委員報告基本上我們還是會以沙崙為中心點因為目前它的整個開發其實還不如預期所以委員您所剛才所談到的這些未來會有個Data Center裡面會有超級電腦專門做AI的研究"},{"start":466.005,"end":489.493,"text":"另外委員剛剛所提到的這個AI的生態園區也應該會以沙崙為中心然後再往整個南部這樣擴散目前都還在規劃中因為沙崙它有中央研究院南部院區然後又有你們國科會相關的一些所謂研發的地點"},{"start":490.313,"end":516.911,"text":"所以我們看到的是綠能科技產業園區在沙崙我們把它這一塊土地放在這裡是很可惜的還有成大我們的相關還有交通大學這些研發的能量都在裡面但是並沒有發揮啊所以我為什麼說要爭取AI的生態園區在台南當然就是在我們的沙崙這個區塊嘛從過去到現在我們看到的是能量沒有發揮嘛"},{"start":518.012,"end":534.645,"text":"那如果是這樣子的話我們再加上有些隱形產業我們必須是實體跟虛擬要並進嘛是不是一個負責實體一個負責虛擬嘛這樣才對嘛然後國發會是know-how嘛他做串聯嘛"},{"start":535.666,"end":551.515,"text":"是不是這樣子所以我們期待的AI生態園區除了有像黃仁軒執行長所說的他必須是AI的研發中心他可以併進來嘛對不對他可以把1加1大於2嘛"},{"start":552.455,"end":573.42,"text":"如果我們有這樣的一個生態園區他在投注他們的一些原本預期的計畫跟目標對我們來講是加分了所以我覺得說AI生態園區在整個地理位置經費當中最適合的就是台南就在沙崙這非常的清楚主委"},{"start":574.1,"end":588.957,"text":"好 謝謝委員我會負責來整合兩個部會的結果然後再跟你們報告好 再拜託那還有一個部分您的誠意我們是一直感受很深對 因為我覺得我們台南現在覺得就是一個整合"},{"start":590.038,"end":612.772,"text":"如果把它整合起來我們的能量是無限大我們有那個條件但是缺了一個整合那我相信今天有一點我覺得還是要澄清清楚我們請這個經濟部長就是說外媒說台灣缺電會衝擊全球的產業基本上我覺得今天起碼台灣的能量"},{"start":613.732,"end":636.063,"text":"我們的經濟能量、企業能量是被外媒所看到的這個對我們來講是好的可是因為被看到大家會擔心我們是不是會有缺電的問題部長我們應該準備好了尤其我們現在投注AIAI的用電非常的大那這個部分呢我們準備好了沒報告委員準備好了"},{"start":636.403,"end":663.36,"text":"準備好了所以我們不會像外媒所講的會因為有這個缺電而影響到我們整個全球產業因為大家已經把台灣變成是一個全球產業包括半導體的一個指標囉這對我們來講其實是一個非常棒的可是他們擔心我們要把它擔心把它斷絕台灣電的部分沒有問題"},{"start":664.361,"end":684.641,"text":"是不是這樣是的缺電影響全球是事實但是我們沒有缺電我們沒有缺電我們準備好了對不對我們在準備應該是好的好我想AI產業如果進到我們在整個整合的體系當中電、水它永遠都是最重要再麻煩部長謝謝好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:39:59.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:40:01.374000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，召委，我們請主委。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-06-12T09:40:02.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:40:03.735000+08:00","text":"我們再請國發委主委。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:40:10.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:40:11.062000+08:00","text":"委員早。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:40:11.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:40:54.448000+08:00","text":"主委，我想我第一次也是在這個地方，當時我跟你談的就是AI的研發中心，也就是黃仁勳執行長他一直希望在臺南、在高雄有一個AI研發中心，所以我們也希望國發會要怎麼樣去掌握這樣的訊息，然後我們要怎麼去push，然後把這樣一個所謂的AI研發中心可以留在臺南，現在我們也希望它擴大變成生態園區，這是現在政府非常重要的一個指標，叫生態園區。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:40:54.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:41:28.486000+08:00","text":"可是這個生態園區，我相信在臺南的部分，我們有很多，包括綠能科技產業園區，也就是在沙崙，然後再加上我們的南科，再加上我們目前所有的一些電力、水力的部分，在整個條件當中，我們認為設在臺南是非常適當的，可是針對AI生態園區，到底現在我們的目標在哪裡？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:41:28.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:41:30.127000+08:00","text":"重點在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:41:30.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:41:31.228000+08:00","text":"預算在哪裡？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:41:31.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:41:48.097000+08:00","text":"數發部一下子說要實體，一下子說可以虛擬，然後國科會說他們都可以配合，因為他們本來在南科園區就有這樣一個所謂相關AI的產業，所以他們沒有問題，那國發會呢？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:41:48.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:41:49.298000+08:00","text":"你們的態度是如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:41:49.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:41:50.799000+08:00","text":"你們的態度是如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:41:54.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:42:11.551000+08:00","text":"我們的態度現在是積極的跟數發部、國科會，我們一起來合作啦，臺南的部分的確像委員所講的，我很佩服委員，您一直在爭取臺南，然後也一直把臺南的優勢不斷地讓我們清楚，所以我們現在感受得也很深。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:42:14.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:42:22.556000+08:00","text":"我們現在在評估階段，我們一定不會忘記委員特別一直跟我們強調的臺南的好處，我們會認真的來考慮這一點。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:42:23.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:42:46.605000+08:00","text":"因為現在整個護國神山所有它的機能，還有它所有的零星產業，基本上都落腳在臺南，而且我們有我們的腹地，所以如果在這樣的前提之下，我覺得我們的態度要更確認，到底AI的生態園區，它是要實體還是虛擬？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:42:49.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:42:51.719000+08:00","text":"實體跟虛擬不一樣耶。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:42:51.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:16.454000+08:00","text":"對，我們現在是這樣子，實體跟虛擬都會同時存在的原因是，在AI的世界裡面，它必須串聯全世界，所以我們除了會建立實體的中心之外，我們也會，我想數發部也積極在建立一個國際脈絡的聯網，包括讓沒辦法進入園區的一些單位也都可以參與進來，變成一個整合性的虛實整合的AI生態園區。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:17.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:18.255000+08:00","text":"那土地重不重要？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:18.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:22.801000+08:00","text":"土地重要啊，就是有實體的地方可以做更好的討論。是啊。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:24.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:25.765000+08:00","text":"所以這兩者會同時並行，就我的了解。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:26.486000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:27.107000+08:00","text":"土地重要？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:27.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:27.888000+08:00","text":"那經費呢？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:28.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:28.228000+08:00","text":"經費來源呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:28.228000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:30.406000+08:00","text":"國發基金。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:30.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:42.194000+08:00","text":"經費來源我們現在是，第一個，國發基金，我們現在正在作業中啦，如果得到核准的話，我們會有100億投到這個領域來，至於硬體的部分……","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:42.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:43:50.219000+08:00","text":"所以我們現在預估，在AI生態園區，在實體的部分，我們預計要投入的是國發基金100億的預算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:43:51.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:44:00.328000+08:00","text":"而且100億主要是在投資創新創業，就是進駐廠商，還有虛擬進駐廠商的投資。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:44:00.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:44:10.617000+08:00","text":"至於硬體的部分，其實現在因為公建預算正在審核當中，我們也請各單位儘快的提出來，進入我們的審核程序。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:44:11.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:44:27.817000+08:00","text":"所以主委，你的意思是說，國發基金這100億，我們是希望創新創業進入到這樣一個實體的生態園區，然後在其他各部會的部分，我們還會再另外編列相關的預算？對。","quality":0.954},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:44:28.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:44:32.879000+08:00","text":"然後進入到這個AI的方向，是不是？是的。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:44:33.439000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:44:34.100000+08:00","text":"所以不止100億？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:44:34.740000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:44:50.586000+08:00","text":"不止，公建預算是另計，那現在等實體，我們是審核單位，所以我們有幾個單位在規劃上面，從國科會跟數發部，他們會送上這樣一個公建計畫，在於實體的建設上……","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:44:52.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:44:57.749000+08:00","text":"所以國科會是負責實體，然後數發部是負責虛擬，是這樣的意思嗎？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:44:57.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:00.250000+08:00","text":"沒有，他們都會有實體的運作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:01.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:02.411000+08:00","text":"都有實體的運作？對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:03.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:11.779000+08:00","text":"那你要瞭解數發部，數發部最近所講的並不是如此，它所講的是它要把實體變虛擬。","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:11.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:12.760000+08:00","text":"也許是不是可以讓數發部次長來說明？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:19.871000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:22.074000+08:00","text":"次長，到底你們現在的態度是什麼？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:22.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:32.869000+08:00","text":"如果以主委所說的，我們是實體跟虛擬同步並進，可是你們最近在媒體當中所講的被誤解為實體要變虛擬，你們負責的是虛擬。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"林次長宜敬","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:37.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:42.040000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，因為在政府的分工上面，國發會會負責包含臺灣的硬體產業及軟體產業，而我們數發部負責的是軟體產業，然後軟體產業有一個特性……","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:42.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:42.440000+08:00","text":"對嘛，所以你們數發部負責的就是在虛擬的部分嘛。是。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:42.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:45:42.580000+08:00","text":"實體也有嗎？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"林次長宜敬","start":"2024-06-12T09:45:55.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:46:15.725000+08:00","text":"實體的部分，因為我們現在的重點是在於生態，而不在於園區，軟體產業的特性是：第一個，上下游產業之間並沒有零組件運輸的需求，所以上下游的產業並不需要在同一個地方；再來，軟體產業現在遠距上班也都是常見的現象，所以我們……","quality":0.99},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:46:16.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:46:22.567000+08:00","text":"所以次長你的意思是，你們數發部負責的就是虛擬的部分？是。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:46:23.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:46:24.887000+08:00","text":"所以沒有實體的部分？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:46:25.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:46:25.908000+08:00","text":"對不對？對。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:46:26.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:46:32.929000+08:00","text":"主委，所以就有一點不一樣了，我們現在看到的確實是如此，數發部從實體變虛擬。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:46:33.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:46:34.409000+08:00","text":"現在實體聚落的部分、實體生態園區到底是誰在負責？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:46:34.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:46:34.529000+08:00","text":"國科會嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:46:34.529000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:47:08.006000+08:00","text":"國科會也講得有一點保守，它說他們的產業園區都可以配合，他們是就目前的狀態，但是如果依照主委所講的，我們是要做大，除了國發基金以外，我們還有公建計畫，這是不同的，所以我們的方向到底怎麼拿捏？","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:47:08.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:47:15.885000+08:00","text":"國科會，實體的部分是你們負責的嗎？是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"林副主任委員法正","start":"2024-06-12T09:47:15.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:47:47.929000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，基本上我們還是會以沙崙為中心點，因為目前它整個開發其實還不如預期，所以委員您剛剛所談到的這些，未來會有一個data center，裡面會有超級電腦，專門做AI的研究；另外，剛才委員所提到的AI生態園區也應該會以沙崙為中心，然後再往南部擴散，目前都還在規劃中。","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"林副主任委員法正","start":"2024-06-12T09:47:47.929000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-12T09:47:49.289000+08:00","text":"以上報告。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:47:49.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:48:16.203000+08:00","text":"因為沙崙有中央研究院南部院區，又有國科會相關的研發地點，所以我們看到的是綠能科技產業園區在沙崙，把這塊土地放在這裡是很可惜的，還有成大、交通大學這些研發的能量都在裡面，但是並沒有發揮呀！","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:48:16.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:48:19.806000+08:00","text":"所以我為什麼要爭取AI的生態園區設在臺南？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:48:20.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:48:22.227000+08:00","text":"當然就是在沙崙這個區塊嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:48:24.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:48:37.179000+08:00","text":"從過去到現在我們看到的是能量沒有發揮，如果是這樣子的話，再加上有些隱形產業，我們必須是實體跟虛擬並進，是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:48:37.719000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:48:41.762000+08:00","text":"一個負責實體，一個負責虛擬，這樣才對嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:48:42.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:48:47.226000+08:00","text":"然後國發會是know-how、做串聯，是不是這樣子？是。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:48:47.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:48:59.953000+08:00","text":"所以我們期待的AI生態園區除了有像黃仁勳執行長所說的，它必須是AI的研發中心，它可以併進來，對不對？嗯。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:00.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:49:02.074000+08:00","text":"它可以讓1加1大於2。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:03.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:49:24.400000+08:00","text":"如果有這樣一個生態園區，再投注原本預期的計畫及目標，對我們來講是加分，所以我覺得AI生態園區在整個地理位置、經費當中最適合的就是臺南，就在沙崙，這非常地清楚，主委。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:25.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:49:30.206000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員，我會負責整合兩個部會的結果，再跟您報告。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:30.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:49:31.508000+08:00","text":"好，再拜託。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:32.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:49:32.629000+08:00","text":"還有一個部分，我們……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:32.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:49:35.011000+08:00","text":"對於您的誠意我們一直感受很深。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:35.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:49:47.262000+08:00","text":"因為我覺得我們臺南欠缺的就是一個整合，如果把它整合起來，我們的能量是無限大，我們有那個條件，但是缺了一個整合。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:48.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:49:51.804000+08:00","text":"我覺得今天有一點還是要澄清清楚。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:49:53.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:50:17.438000+08:00","text":"請問經濟部部長，外媒說臺灣缺電會衝擊全球的產業，基本上我覺得今天起碼臺灣的經濟能量、企業能量是被外媒所看到的，這個對我們來講是好的，可是因為被看到，大家會擔心我們是不是會有缺電的問題。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:50:17.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:50:25.542000+08:00","text":"部長，我們應該準備好了，尤其我們現在要投注AI，AI的用電非常大，這個部分我們準備好了沒？","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-12T09:50:26.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:50:27.043000+08:00","text":"報告委員，準備好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:50:27.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:50:56.042000+08:00","text":"準備好了，所以我們不會像外媒所講的，會因為缺電而影響到我們整個全球產業……因為大家已經把臺灣變成是一個全球產業、包括半導體的指標了，這對我們來講其實是非常棒的，可是他們擔心，我們要把他們的擔心斷絕，臺灣電的部分沒有問題，是不是這樣？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-12T09:50:56.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:50:59.926000+08:00","text":"是的，缺電影響全球是事實，但是我們沒有缺電。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:50:59.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:51:03.349000+08:00","text":"我們沒有缺電，我們準備好了，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2024-06-12T09:51:03.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:51:05.171000+08:00","text":"我們在準備，應該是好的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員亭妃","start":"2024-06-12T09:51:05.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-12T09:51:15.641000+08:00","text":"好，我想AI產業如果進到整個整合的體系當中，電、水永遠都是最重要的，再麻煩部長。謝謝。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-06-12T09:51:16.141000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-12T09:51:19.569571+08:00","text":"接下來請邱議瑩委員做詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}