{"error":false,"id":["153912"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":153912,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/153912","日期":"2024-06-13","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,15],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","內政委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-06-13T09:30:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-06-13T09:36:47+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:37","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cf02c7fc60cc7ba0da27e0ad9fc026ad8ff7e0bc1ebc5021f0c311de3a91f9480e1aaeda16fd8c625ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"09:30:10 - 09:36:47","會議時間":"2024-06-13T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員蘇清泉等27人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草案」案。\n（二）委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員王鴻薇等29人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員林思銘等23人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案。\n【第（六）至（十）案如經院會復議，則不予審查；第（十一）及（十二）案各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":142,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時30分）我請內政部次長、警政署長、海巡署署長。"],["主席：麻煩次長、警政署署長、海巡署署長。"],["張委員宏陸：次長及各位署長，其實說要照顧警察弟兄，我相信大家都是樂觀其成，不過在這裡我有幾個法律上的問題必須先來探討一下。我先請問海巡署，海巡署的組成是不是有軍人、警察跟特考三種身分的人？"],["張署長忠龍：還有關務。"],["張委員宏陸：對，但退休金的計算可能有的人是適用陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例，也有人是適用公務人員退休資遣撫卹法，對不對？"],["張署長忠龍：對。"],["張委員宏陸：這樣的話，他們工作上是有很明顯的差異嗎？還是說一開始考進海巡的身分就不同？"],["張署長忠龍：跟委員報告，現在海巡署有四種身分的人，各用各自的人事法令，所以當他們進到海巡署這個體系來，他們就知道他們適用哪些公務人員的任用條例。"],["張委員宏陸：他們每天的工作性質有很大的不同嗎？"],["張署長忠龍：不會，就是他該負什麼責任、該什麼工作的話就……另外，像艦隊分署的工作是比較辛苦的部分，艦隊分署就全部都是警察人員。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，其實在同樣一個海巡署裡面有不同樣的人，你想想看，他們雖然如你所說的，一進去大家都知道自己身分不同，但是每天工作的內容其實也大同小異、差不了多少吧？"],["張署長忠龍：看他負的責任。跟委員報告，我們海巡署的工作其實有區分兩塊，一個是軍職部分，一個是海上部分。海上部分主要負責的是海域安全維護，包括應對中國大陸不理性的軍演，都是由艦隊分署來做，所以工作內容是性質不同的。我剛剛提的是他們進來以後是適用各自的人事法令，工作項目是配合機關屬性來做不同的調整及賦予任務。"],["張委員宏陸：我想請問一下，我們今天審查的條例最基本的是對警察做規定，將其他的海防或海巡兄弟等一起納入，你覺得這樣子跟現行的體制會有什麼衝突嗎？"],["張署長忠龍：如果要把他們的計算都納入，我們樂觀其成。"],["張委員宏陸：蛤？我問你呀。"],["張署長忠龍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：你樂觀其成……"],["張署長忠龍：對不起，我不太瞭解委員的意思。"],["張委員宏陸：蛤？我知道……"],["張署長忠龍：我沒有聽懂委員的意思。"],["張委員宏陸：我說今天如果是這樣，把他全部一體適用，對不對？你樂觀其成，那你要怎麼去做？其他的法要不要修？要不要修？"],["張署長忠龍：人事法令的……"],["張委員宏陸：你如果不懂，你就說你不懂，不用在這邊浪費我的時間。"],["張署長忠龍：是。"],["張委員宏陸：蛤？你懂不懂？"],["張署長忠龍：因為每一個人的……"],["張委員宏陸：其他的法要不要修啦？"],["張署長忠龍：當然要啊。"],["張委員宏陸：對啊，你剛剛停頓那麼久，你在浪費我的時間，在幹什麼，對不對？我在質詢，你還浪費我的時間，對不對？","次長，你覺得呢？"],["馬次長士元：跟委員報告，我們贊成維持現制，主要的原因就是因為整個退撫制度，第一個，內政部其實不是主管機關，但是在照顧警消同仁這一塊，我們是夙夜匪懈，每天都在為我們警消同仁權益在努力，所以我們平時對於現職警消同仁，事實上從105年起我們每一年已經都有一些新的做法，也就是對現職同仁的照顧，我們一直在增加；對於退休同仁的照顧，我們就按照銓敘部的規定來進行，這個部分我們認為在目前的推動上是合宜而且是可以的。謝謝。"],["張委員宏陸：沒有錯，我剛剛一開始也說要照顧，大家都支持，但是如果今天……我剛剛是就法令在講，如果這樣，其他的法也是要修，才能夠處理這個問題，對不對？"],["馬次長士元：報告委員，對。"],["張委員宏陸：沒錯嘛？"],["馬次長士元：嗯。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛。所以你今天如果只單就這個，就掛一漏萬了嘛。我就舉海巡為例，裡面有這麼多，裡面的工作性質又差不多，雖然有一些特殊的，有一些……對不對？但同樣都是海巡署。如果這樣子的話，次長，你會不會擔心士氣會低落？"],["馬次長士元：報告委員，海巡署是海委會的單位，我們……"],["張委員宏陸：我知道啦！同樣地，你覺得呢？你也是內政部，你是次長，你覺得你會不會擔心人家的……這樣會不會低落？"],["馬次長士元：報告委員，如果以海委會目前在海巡署有軍職人員在內的話，軍職人員本身的適用範圍跟警職人員不一樣，所以如果按照這個條例修正的話，海巡署裡面的軍職人員大概會無所適從。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得這個問題不是只有海巡，很多單位都會有這個問題，我們今天雖然是審警察人員人事條例，是內政部主管的，但同樣的問題會讓很多單位造成這樣的困擾，這其實是我們很應該要去看的。尤其依照公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條，如果超過5%的調漲要另案送立法院審議，我覺得大家也都要思考一下。"],["馬次長士元：謝謝委員。"],["張委員宏陸：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請陳俊宇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":282,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-36,15-1","speakers":["吳宗憲","蘇清泉","謝龍介","丁學忠","游顥","王鴻薇","張宏陸","陳俊宇","鍾佳濱","蘇巧慧","王美惠","羅智強","牛煦庭","沈發惠","陳玉珍","翁曉玲","林思銘","黃捷","黃建賓","黃國昌","許宇甄","莊瑞雄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林德福","洪孟楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","陳冠廷","楊曜","李彥秀","柯建銘","傅崐萁","高金素梅"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2024-06-13"],"gazette_id":"1136301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1136301_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制、內政委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查( 一 ) 委員蘇清泉等27 人擬具「警察人員人事條例修正第三十五條條文及增訂附表三草\n案」案、(二)委員萬美玲等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(三)委\n員謝龍介等19人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員王鴻薇等29人\n擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員丁學忠等17人擬具「警察人員\n人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員顏寬恒等20人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十\n五條條文修正草案」案、(七)委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例部分條文修\n正草案」案、( 八) 委員林思銘等23 人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、\n(九)委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條及第三十六條\n條文修正草案」案、(十)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」\n案、(十一)委員游顥等38人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案、(十二)委員\n張智倫等17人擬具「警察人員人事條例第三十五條條文修正草案」案","agenda_id":"1136301_00011"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":12.079718750000001,"end":20.719718750000002,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":17.41221875,"end":18.20534375,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":19.36971875,"end":20.770343750000002,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":21.32721875,"end":22.06971875,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":26.558468750000003,"end":29.69721875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":29.950343750000002,"end":48.69846875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":50.65596875,"end":57.55784375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":58.148468750000006,"end":58.95846875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":59.80221875,"end":60.713468750000004,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":60.32534375,"end":60.578468750000006,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":60.94971875,"end":61.47284375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":62.04659375000001,"end":76.35659375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":75.14159375,"end":75.32721875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":76.91346875,"end":83.56221875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":84.28784375000001,"end":97.28159375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":97.77096875000001,"end":101.36534375000001,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":101.87159375,"end":102.63096875000001,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":103.99784375,"end":110.49471875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":111.35534375,"end":115.32096875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":116.21534375,"end":123.38721875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":123.84284375000001,"end":133.49534375000002,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":134.27159375000002,"end":142.62471875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":142.86096875,"end":170.75534375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":172.02096875,"end":180.59346875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":181.55534375000002,"end":185.16659375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":185.68971875000003,"end":188.45721875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":188.71034375000002,"end":189.89159375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":190.95471875,"end":195.44346875000002,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":196.43909375,"end":196.74284375000002,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":201.50159375,"end":202.32846875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":202.75034375,"end":203.07096875000002,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":204.16784375,"end":206.15909375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":204.20159375,"end":206.04096875000002,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":206.15909375,"end":206.17596875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":206.17596875,"end":207.45846875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":207.45846875,"end":209.92221875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":207.74534375000002,"end":216.79034375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":213.34784375,"end":213.60096875000002,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":223.86096875,"end":224.56971875000002,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":226.72971875000002,"end":231.58971875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":226.91534375,"end":227.84346875000003,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":229.61534375000002,"end":229.76721875,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":232.07909375000003,"end":232.61909375000002,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":232.78784375,"end":233.58096875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":235.15034375000002,"end":237.15846875000003,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":235.79159375,"end":236.16284375,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"張署長忠龍","start":237.25971875000002,"end":237.95159375000003,"speaker_score":0.935},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":237.95159375000003,"end":241.81596875000002,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":244.80284375000002,"end":247.21596875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":247.60409375,"end":248.31284375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":248.53221875000003,"end":249.27471875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":252.68346875,"end":252.70034375000003,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":252.70034375000003,"end":253.57784375000003,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":254.23596875,"end":257.99909375000004,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":258.45471875000004,"end":271.73534375,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":272.17409375,"end":293.31846875,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":293.31846875,"end":293.33534375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":293.33534375,"end":293.87534375,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":293.87534375,"end":307.64534375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":307.93221875,"end":323.49096875000004,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":324.26721875000004,"end":329.26221875000005,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":329.59971875,"end":331.03409375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":331.03409375,"end":333.04221875,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":333.04221875,"end":342.42471875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":333.07596875,"end":333.97034375000004,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":342.42471875,"end":342.45846875,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":342.96471875000003,"end":357.73034375000003,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":358.52346875,"end":358.96221875000003,"speaker_score":0.789},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":358.96221875000003,"end":359.63721875000005,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":360.12659375000004,"end":362.52284375000005,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"張委員宏陸","start":362.87721875,"end":393.92721875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"馬次長士元","start":393.20159375000003,"end":393.96096875,"speaker_score":0.789}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.253,"end":19.107,"text":"我請內政部次長,然後還有警政署長,然後海巡署長"},{"start":27.796,"end":48.065,"text":"市長、各位署長,其實大家說要照顧警察弟兄什麼,我相信大家都是樂觀,大家都想要樂觀其成不過在這裡我必須先有幾個法律上的問題來探討一下首先我先請問海巡署"},{"start":50.714,"end":73.709,"text":"我們海巡署的組成是不是有軍人、警察跟特考三種身份的人還有官務對但我們裡面的退休金的計算那有可能有的人是適用陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例也有人是公務人員退休之前服劇罰罰退服罰對不對"},{"start":76.974,"end":100.979,"text":"他們用這樣他們工作上是有很明顯的差異嗎還是說一開始考進海巡的身份就不同跟委員報告我們現在海巡署有四種身份的人各用各自的人事法令所以他們當他們進到海巡署這個體系來他們就知道他們適用哪些公務人員的任用條例那他們的每天的工作性質有很大的不同嗎"},{"start":102.249,"end":114.985,"text":"不會就是他該負什麼責任該什麼工作的話就那另外像艦隊分署的工作他是比較辛苦的部分那艦隊分署就全部都是警察人員"},{"start":116.918,"end":133.277,"text":"對嗎?其實在同樣一個海巡署裡面你看有這不同樣的人你想想看那他們雖然你所說的一進去大家都知道自己身分不同但是每天工作的內容其實也大同小異差不了多少吧"},{"start":134.558,"end":149.966,"text":"看他負的責任那這邊跟委員報我們海巡署的工作其實他是有區分兩塊一個是在軍指的部分一個部分是在海上部分那海上部分他主要負責的是我們海域的安全維護"},{"start":150.886,"end":170.399,"text":"包括我們應對中國大陸不理性的這些軍演的部分都是由鑑定分子來做所以他的工作內容是性質不同的我剛剛提的是說他們進來以後他們是適用各自的人事法律那工作項目是配合機關的屬性來做不同的調整跟賦予任務"},{"start":172.362,"end":196.526,"text":"那我想請問一下齁那我們今天審查的條例啊齁我們是最基本的是對警察做規定那將其他的海防或海巡兄弟等一起納入這樣子你覺得跟現行的體制會有什麼衝突嗎如果要把他們的計算都要納入我們樂觀其成蛤"},{"start":201.673,"end":216.48,"text":"我問你啊對不起我不太了解委員的意思我說今天如果是這樣把他全部一體適用對不對那你樂觀其成那你要怎麼去做其他的法要不要修要不要修"},{"start":226.715,"end":227.615,"text":"二（委員陳世保令等19人擬具"},{"start":252.711,"end":271.516,"text":"你覺得勒?跟委員報告我們贊成維持限制主要的原因就是說因為整個退伏制度第一個內政部其實不是主管的機關但是我們在照顧警消同仁這一塊我們是樹葉緋瀉每天都在為我們警消同仁的權益在努力"},{"start":272.276,"end":296.675,"text":"所以我們平時對於現職的警消同仁事實上我們已經有從105年每一年我們都有一些新的做法也就對現職同仁的照顧我們一直在增加那麼對於退休同仁的照顧我們就按照全序部的規定來進行那這個部分我們認為在目前的一個推動上是合一而且是可以的謝謝沒有錯啊我剛剛一開始也說要照顧這大家都支持啊"},{"start":297.475,"end":323.065,"text":"對大家啊但是如果今天我剛剛是就法令在在講嗎啊如果這樣你其他的法律是要修你才能夠去處理這個問題啊對不對報告委員對沒錯嘛吼對嘛所以你今天如果只單就這個就掛一落萬了嘛我就舉一個海巡迴力嘛裡面有這麼多啊裡面的工作性質又是差不多雖然有一些特殊的有一些吼對不對但我同樣我都是海巡署欸"},{"start":324.332,"end":342.189,"text":"如果這樣子的話,次長你會不會擔心這個士氣會低落?報告委員海巡署是海委會的單位。我知道啦,同樣的,但你覺得呢?你也是內政部,你是次長啊,你覺得你會不會擔心人家這樣會不會低落?"},{"start":343.21,"end":357.195,"text":"報尾因為如果說以這個海委會目前在海巡署有軍職人員在內的話那軍職人員本身他的一個適用的範圍跟警察人員不一樣所以說我們按照這個條例修正的話那海巡署裡面的這個軍職人員大會無所適從"},{"start":358.601,"end":375.44,"text":"我覺得啦這個問題不是只有海巡啦會有很多的這種單位啊都會有這個問題啦那我們今天雖然是審這個警察這個是內政部主管但同樣的問題會有造成很多的單位造成這樣的困擾"},{"start":376.221,"end":391.896,"text":"這其實是我們很應該要去看的啦尤其如果依照公務人員退府條例退府法67條規定如果超過5%的條長要另案送立法院審議這個我覺得大家也都要思考一下謝謝委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:30:22.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:30:29.107000+08:00","text":"我請內政部次長、警政署長、海巡署署長。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-06-13T09:30:29.107000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:30:38.157000+08:00","text":"麻煩次長、警政署署長、海巡署署長。","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:30:38.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:30:54.663000+08:00","text":"次長及各位署長，其實說要照顧警察弟兄，我相信大家都是樂觀其成，不過在這裡我有幾個法律上的問題必須先來探討一下。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:30:56.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:31:07.338000+08:00","text":"我先請問海巡署，海巡署的組成是不是有軍人、警察跟特考三種身分的人？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:31:08.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:31:11.081000+08:00","text":"還有關務。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:31:11.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:31:23.709000+08:00","text":"對，但退休金的計算可能有的人是適用陸海空軍軍官士官服役條例，也有人是適用公務人員退休資遣撫卹法，對不對？對。","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:31:27.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:31:30.755000+08:00","text":"這樣的話，他們工作上是有很明顯的差異嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:31:30.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:31:33.315000+08:00","text":"還是說一開始考進海巡的身分就不同？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:31:34.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:31:46.998000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，現在海巡署有四種身分的人，各用各自的人事法令，所以當他們進到海巡署這個體系來，他們就知道他們適用哪些公務人員的任用條例。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:31:48.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:31:50.979000+08:00","text":"他們每天的工作性質有很大的不同嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:31:52.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:32:04.985000+08:00","text":"不會，就是他該負什麼責任、該什麼工作的話就……另外，像艦隊分署的工作是比較辛苦的部分，艦隊分署就全部都是警察人員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:32:06.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:32:23.257000+08:00","text":"對嘛，其實在同樣一個海巡署裡面有不同樣的人，你想想看，他們雖然如你所說的，一進去大家都知道自己身分不同，但是每天工作的內容其實也大同小異、差不了多少吧？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:32:24.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:32:25.659000+08:00","text":"看他負的責任。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:32:27.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:32:35.684000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們海巡署的工作其實有區分兩塊，一個是軍職部分，一個是海上部分。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:32:36.444000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:32:50.652000+08:00","text":"海上部分主要負責的是海域安全維護，包括應對中國大陸不理性的軍演，都是由艦隊分署來做，所以工作內容是性質不同的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:32:50.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:00.399000+08:00","text":"我剛剛提的是他們進來以後是適用各自的人事法令，工作項目是配合機關屬性來做不同的調整及賦予任務。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:02.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:21.020000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下，我們今天審查的條例最基本的是對警察做規定，將其他的海防或海巡兄弟等一起納入，你覺得這樣子跟現行的體制會有什麼衝突嗎？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:21.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:26.506000+08:00","text":"如果要把他們的計算都納入，我們樂觀其成。蛤？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:31.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:31.813000+08:00","text":"我問你呀。是。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:31.813000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:34.594000+08:00","text":"你樂觀其成……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:34.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:35.935000+08:00","text":"對不起，我不太瞭解委員的意思。蛤？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:35.935000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:36.935000+08:00","text":"我知道……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:36.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:36.455000+08:00","text":"我沒有聽懂委員的意思。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:37.696000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:43.319000+08:00","text":"我說今天如果是這樣，把他全部一體適用，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:43.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:45.259000+08:00","text":"你樂觀其成，那你要怎麼去做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:45.660000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:46.240000+08:00","text":"其他的法要不要修？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:46.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:46.460000+08:00","text":"要不要修？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:46.460000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:50.991375+08:00","text":"人事法令的……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:50.991375+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:33:55.522750+08:00","text":"你如果不懂，你就說你不懂，不用在這邊浪費我的時間。是。蛤？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:33:55.522750+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:34:00.054125+08:00","text":"你懂不懂？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:34:00.054125+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:34:04.585500+08:00","text":"因為每一個人的……","quality":0.143},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:34:04.585500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:34:09.116875+08:00","text":"其他的法要不要修啦？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張署長忠龍","start":"2024-06-13T09:34:09.116875+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:34:13.648250+08:00","text":"當然要啊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:34:13.648250+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:34:18.179625+08:00","text":"對啊，你剛剛停頓那麼久，你在浪費我的時間，在幹什麼，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:34:18.179625+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:34:22.711000+08:00","text":"我在質詢，你還浪費我的時間，對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:34:22.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:34:23.211000+08:00","text":"次長，你覺得呢？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"馬次長士元","start":"2024-06-13T09:34:25.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:03.232000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們贊成維持現制，主要的原因就是因為整個退撫制度，第一個，內政部其實不是主管機關，但是在照顧警消同仁這一塊，我們是夙夜匪懈，每天都在為我們警消同仁權益在努力，所以我們平時對於現職警消同仁，事實上從105年起我們每一年已經都有一些新的做法，也就是對現職同仁的照顧，我們一直在增加；對於退休同仁的照顧，我們就按照銓敘部的規定來進行，這個部分我們認為在目前的推動上是合宜而且是可以的。謝謝。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:03.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:16.018000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，我剛剛一開始也說要照顧，大家都支持，但是如果今天……我剛剛是就法令在講，如果這樣，其他的法也是要修，才能夠處理這個問題，對不對？","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"馬次長士元","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:16.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:18.039000+08:00","text":"報告委員，對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:18.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:19.440000+08:00","text":"沒錯嘛？嗯。對嘛。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:19.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:22.501000+08:00","text":"所以你今天如果只單就這個，就掛一漏萬了嘛。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:22.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:31.564000+08:00","text":"我就舉海巡為例，裡面有這麼多，裡面的工作性質又差不多，雖然有一些特殊的，有一些……對不對？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:31.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:33.045000+08:00","text":"但同樣都是海巡署。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:34.332000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:38.576000+08:00","text":"如果這樣子的話，次長，你會不會擔心士氣會低落？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬次長士元","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:40.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:43.901000+08:00","text":"報告委員，海巡署是海委會的單位，我們……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:44.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:44.262000+08:00","text":"我知道啦！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:44.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:46.504000+08:00","text":"同樣地，你覺得呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:47.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:35:52.169000+08:00","text":"你也是內政部，你是次長，你覺得你會不會擔心人家的……這樣會不會低落？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"馬次長士元","start":"2024-06-13T09:35:53.210000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:36:07.195000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果以海委會目前在海巡署有軍職人員在內的話，軍職人員本身的適用範圍跟警職人員不一樣，所以如果按照這個條例修正的話，海巡署裡面的軍職人員大概會無所適從。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:36:08.601000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:36:29.164000+08:00","text":"我覺得這個問題不是只有海巡，很多單位都會有這個問題，我們今天雖然是審警察人員人事條例，是內政部主管的，但同樣的問題會讓很多單位造成這樣的困擾，這其實是我們很應該要去看的。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"張委員宏陸","start":"2024-06-13T09:36:29.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:36:41.716000+08:00","text":"尤其依照公務人員退休資遣撫卹法第六十七條，如果超過5%的調漲要另案送立法院審議，我覺得大家也都要思考一下。","quality":0.755},{"speaker":"馬次長士元","start":"2024-06-13T09:36:41.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2024-06-13T09:36:41.896000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2024-06-13T09:36:42.396000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2024-06-13T09:36:45.538857+08:00","text":"下一位請陳俊宇委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}