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我們有請我們部長 黃部長請部長邱委員好 部長好我看了我們環境部的書面報告注意到2月27號西半部品質我們的空瓶持續惡化那環境部曾經成立中央第二級空氣污染防治指揮中心並召集我們地方環保局等單位召開應變會議"},{"start":36.644,"end":44.513,"text":"而且協調經濟部台電公司進行協和邁遼台中興達電廠降載減排那降載總共降載了11億3199萬度的電量 對嗎對"},{"start":54.443,"end":68.77,"text":"那我想請問部長去年一年曾經成立第二級或者是第一級防治指揮中心有幾次沒有 因為大概三年已經沒有三年多沒有成立這個也就是說去今年才發生"},{"start":70.631,"end":97.687,"text":"這麼汙染這麼這麼大以前是以前是怎麼樣以前是我們的機器不好還是怎麼樣沒有沒有就是剛好這次的事件比較嚴重那另外一個呢是我們AQI有沒有查一下什麼原因會造成這個這個主要是那天還是一個氣象因素因為吹東風然後整個西半部的整個整個那個我們最主要是為AQI加鹽我們所以加鹽讓我們其實AQI很容易達到這個不良等級那第二個是那天是氣象因素吹東風"},{"start":98.627,"end":120.854,"text":"所以多久 這三年來就沒有成立過沒有沒有 大概三年多所以我們也很慎重的來成立這個應變中心那我們台灣企業用電需求越來越高如果是成立空氣污染防治指揮中心的時候降載用電的需求產生衝突的時候是聽你的還是要聽經濟部的"},{"start":122.276,"end":134.426,"text":"我們是一起協同作業啦協同作業當然我們不能讓所有的全台灣都不要用電所以我們還是會要協同作業互相協調來完成這個事情我請經濟部的代表來一下好不好國營署 副市長還有產化署 營運署你好"},{"start":150.749,"end":159.214,"text":"前年我國那個火電發電佔比是82%那核能發電佔佔6.3%嘛對吧那現在我們準備核能要歸零那我想請問一下這部分的電力未來要用哪一種電來補"},{"start":174.527,"end":197.078,"text":"因為我們的那個能源轉型就是大概是減煤增氣,斬綠跟非核就是核能電廠接觸之後我們就是用這個我們的這個增加我們天然氣的發電然後增加再生能源的發電然後減少這個燃煤的發電目標是這樣子然後占比大概是燃氣是50%燃煤30%再生能源20%"},{"start":198.098,"end":217.409,"text":"你說燃氣是50 50 58然後呢然後藍莓30藍莓30對那什麼時候你藍莓還要一直用啊還有你準備火力發電還是要繼續要火力發電其實包括那個藍莓跟燃氣都是火力發電對我的意思說你這兩個加起來就幾%了80對將近80%你認為這個不需要改嗎"},{"start":221.737,"end":244.064,"text":"這個部分就是說增加了天然氣是因為可以減少CO2的排放大概是以這個 但是造成的那個汙染呢天然氣的汙染是比較沒有這麼嚴重那所以 我看天然氣的那個CO2的那個那個IPC 比藍莓減少很多對啊 它是差得這樣一個820然後一個是490對吧 這兩個還是算是高的啊"},{"start":250.871,"end":275.239,"text":"我們認為這些一直長期在使用這個狀態的時候我們對我們的國人的健康不會受到影響嗎我們當然是希望能夠盡量減少這個污染的排放包括CO2排放因為它轉成碳排放也是荼毒人民的肺我覺得是這樣那我請問那個電力公司台電你們一度電買一度電就賠一度"},{"start":276.991,"end":291.504,"text":"合適賠了兩千多億也還掛在帳上嘛對不對不敢銷帳目前你們都沒有專業堅持我們讓我們執政黨隨便這樣宰割那我想請問一下現在是要漲電價是嗎目前還沒有現在電價審議委員會還沒有召開還沒有召開我是聽到那這個部分要推給立法院來扛這個責任"},{"start":305.636,"end":333.018,"text":"報告委員沒有我們是尊重3月份的電價審議委員會來決定所以我覺得啦你們該有的這個專業的這個判斷我覺得你們還是要提出來該講話的時候還是要講話這個才對你的專業來負責嘛對不對是好那我們請回那我請教部長我看到你們要成立空氣品質監測與預報中心"},{"start":335.154,"end":351.185,"text":"是這樣嗎對對對那我想說我想請問一下那剛剛講的我們剛剛我們剛剛有講到我們有成立第二級的這個空氣污染防治指揮中心那跟這個東西這個現在你要成立的這個中心有沒有有沒有不一樣的地方"},{"start":351.926,"end":374.402,"text":"因為我們過去的空氣品質的監測跟預報都在我們監製師來做那因為我們要強化AI的運用所以我們把監製師改名叫做環境科技與資訊師他強化AI數位治理的應用所以這個不是在增加一個部門不是不是我們把它移過來移到大氣師裡面因為大氣師要負責應變那應變呢從監測預報到應變把它整合起來就是單位換名稱就對了"},{"start":377.904,"end":400.814,"text":"我們單位換名稱然後整合人力所以並沒有說額外增加新的預算或人力所以要成立這個是因為我們自己在專業務上的考量對 業務的考量不是什麼氣候變遷委員會開會的時候決定不是不是不是啦對對對那我想請問一下那做了這個之後檢測中心之後如果現在空氣品質超標"},{"start":402.325,"end":406.208,"text":"然後呢然後這個中心他現在從上游的監測到預報到最後他們大氣勢的應變都會再統合一個單位來處理"},{"start":412.523,"end":437.292,"text":"等於他就有跨部會的一個功能現在已經有了但是我們希望他的這個功能性還有人員的這個培訓可以更好讓他大一點點一起協同注意超標之後我們要怎麼辦超標之後例如說好假設有二級就由我們司長來召集我們環境部還有各個縣市環保局一起來做那如果一級很嚴重的就是有環境部跟邀集各個部會一起來做這個"},{"start":438.872,"end":454.557,"text":"那有沒有計算過這個成本我們這個經費要花多少錢這個都在我們原有的預算並沒有增加然後我想重點空氣污染最大的來源當然就是發電不然你也不會叫台電來降載對不對"},{"start":456.263,"end":483.405,"text":"那我想目前看到的我們看到民進黨執政快要十年了能源政策是民進黨政府始終不敢面對的問題拿著廢核的神主牌搖擺不定這個到後來我覺得對台灣來講是非常傷害非常的大你長期的使用火力發電或者這個火力發電造成了我們老百姓的健康影響是非常大的我覺得部長你應該要"},{"start":485.855,"end":501.426,"text":"儘早來解決這樣的一個問題我不敢講說你一定要把這個核能恢復那但是至少要找到一個更好的變通方法當然也不是無條件的一直用這個綠能來替代這個電您認同嗎"},{"start":505.325,"end":531.54,"text":"包委員其實我也坦承說我們剛剛有一個圖表說我們的污染源來源裡面這種固定污染源譬如說電力排放失業其實我們的移動源已經超過固定源了所以其實這個也是交通也是我們一個努力的目標那剛剛委員提到的能源政策其實包含燃氣跟燃煤它的燃氣的雖然有排放二氧化碳但是比燃煤少很多所以其實二氧化碳其實它並不會對人體造成直接的影響而且它的空污量會減化"},{"start":533.061,"end":556.039,"text":"那我們現在如果要發展綠能或是新的能源在這個之前氣還是一個必要的一個轉圜那當然這個部分要多久目前如果以我們在規劃這個淨零的路徑來看的話當然是希望說在2030年例如說燃氣50之後慢慢慢慢的往下降那這個降的話2050年它會更好可能只剩下20%左右當然會是更好的"},{"start":557.075,"end":577.792,"text":"還要那麼久啊 你們這個還要二三十年欸對 這個氣因為氣開始蓋它用它就要二十多年的一個時間所以當然但是報告委員其實氣大多數是國家它在面對轉型的時候是一個過渡型的一個能源因為我們現在的再生能源並沒有那麼快那麼順利的能夠可以起來所以你們覺得還是覺得說現在廢核是對的啊"},{"start":581.133,"end":600.733,"text":"我沒有說是對但是委員我在當時算淨零入境的時候其實也發現到核能如果要真的啟動的話面臨到法令要修然後還要幫安全檢查核廢料的處理還有研議也要一些費用所以其實這個都是我無法無法去預期預知的所以你有考慮過同步來做這件事情"},{"start":602.053,"end":618.428,"text":"目前以我的專業來看我當然要經濟部或是河安會來處理但是以我的專業來看的話的確是非常的困難在台灣有一點挑戰但是我覺得你那個時間點拉太長我們國人健康非常重要絕對不能拖"},{"start":620.961,"end":633.51,"text":"對但是委員這個如果說將核能如果非核家園這個如果要研議的話核二加核三就是300億度的電跟我們目前未來國家需要的電力恐怕我還是覺得部長您發揮你的專業該爭取的時候就要爭取好不好好謝謝委員謝謝好謝謝邱委員謝謝部長"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:29:32.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:29:33.449000+08:00","text":"有請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:29:33.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:29:37.111000+08:00","text":"請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:29:37.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:29:37.451000+08:00","text":"邱委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:29:37.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:29:38.012000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:29:39.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:07.513000+08:00","text":"我看了環境部的書面報告，注意到2月27日西半部空品持續惡化，為此，環境部曾成立中央第二級空氣污染防制指揮中心，並召集地方環保局等單位召開應變會議，且協調經濟部、台電公司進行協和、麥寮、臺中興達電廠降載減排，總共降載了11億3,199萬度的電量，對嗎？對。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:17.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:24.866000+08:00","text":"我想請問部長，去年一年曾經幾次成立第二級或第一級防制指揮中心？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:26.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:29.388000+08:00","text":"沒有，大概有三年多沒有成立。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:29.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:31.750000+08:00","text":"也就是說今年才發生比較嚴重的狀況？","quality":0.562},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:33.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:34.451000+08:00","text":"污染這麼大的……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:35.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:35.992000+08:00","text":"以前是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:35.992000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:38.313000+08:00","text":"以前是我們的機器不好，還是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:38.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:40.535000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，剛好這次事件比較嚴重。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:41.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:42.536000+08:00","text":"另外，我們的AQI標準有修正。","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:42.716000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:45.858000+08:00","text":"有沒有查一下是什麼原因造成這個……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:45.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:30:58.785000+08:00","text":"那天主要還是氣象因素，因為吹東風，以致整個西半部……最主要是我們的AQI加嚴了，讓AQI很容易達到不良等級。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:30:58.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:00.687000+08:00","text":"第二個，那天是氣象因素，吹東風……","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:31:01.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:04.428000+08:00","text":"所以這三年來沒有成立過半次？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:31:05.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:10.270000+08:00","text":"沒有，大概三年多，所以我們也很慎重地成立應變中心。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:31:11.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:23.834000+08:00","text":"臺灣企業用電需求越來越高，一旦成立空氣污染防制指揮中心，當降載與用電需求產生衝突時，是聽你的、還是聽經濟部的？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:31:25.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:26.717000+08:00","text":"我們是一起協同作業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:31:28.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:34.464000+08:00","text":"當然，我們不能讓全臺灣所有企業都不要用電，所以我們還是需要協同作業，互相協調來完成這件事。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:31:34.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:36.786000+08:00","text":"我請經濟部代表來一下，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:31:36.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:37.406000+08:00","text":"國營司副司長及產發署、能源署。你好。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:31:53.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:31:59.412000+08:00","text":"前年我國火力發電占比是82%，核能發電6.3%，對吧？對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:00.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:02.214000+08:00","text":"現在我們準備讓核能歸零，我想請問一下，這部分的電力未來要用哪一種電來補？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:17.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:34.395000+08:00","text":"因為我們的能源轉型是減煤、增氣、展綠、非核，所以在核能電廠結束之後，我們就是增加天然氣發電、增加再生能源發電，並減少燃煤發電，目標是這樣子。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:35.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:40.078000+08:00","text":"至於占比，燃氣大概是50%，燃煤30%，再生能源20%。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:41.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:41.718000+08:00","text":"你說燃氣是？50%。50%？對。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:42.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:42.819000+08:00","text":"然後呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:42.819000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:44.546667+08:00","text":"燃煤30%。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:44.546667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:46.274333+08:00","text":"燃煤30%？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:46.274333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:48.002000+08:00","text":"對，再生能源20%。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:48.002000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:49.583000+08:00","text":"那你燃煤還要一直用啊？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:50.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:53.205000+08:00","text":"還有你準備火力發電還是要繼續使用就對了？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:53.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:57.427000+08:00","text":"火力發電，其實包括燃煤跟燃氣都是火力發電。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:57.427000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:58.808000+08:00","text":"對，我的意思是說你這兩個加起來就幾%了？80。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:58.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:32:58.968000+08:00","text":"對，將近80%了耶。是。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:32:58.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:00.409000+08:00","text":"你認為這個不需要改嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:04.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:10.799000+08:00","text":"這個部分就是說，增加天然氣是因為可以減少CO2的排放，大概是以這個為目標……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:10.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:12.900000+08:00","text":"但是造成的污染呢？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:15.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:18.242000+08:00","text":"天然氣的污染是比較沒有這麼嚴重，所以……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:19.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:23.063000+08:00","text":"怎麼會沒有那麼嚴重，我看天然氣的CO2的那個IPCC……","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:23.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:24.604000+08:00","text":"是比燃煤減少很多。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:25.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:26.704000+08:00","text":"對啊，它是差了將近，一個是820，然後一個是490，對吧？是。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:26.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:27.044000+08:00","text":"這兩個還算是高的啊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:27.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:36.012000+08:00","text":"所以我們要努力發展再生能源。","quality":0.154},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:36.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:42.234000+08:00","text":"你認為一直長期在使用的這個狀態，對我們國人的健康不會受到影響嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"劉副司長起孝","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:42.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:48.116000+08:00","text":"我們當然是希望能夠儘量減少污染的排放，還有包括CO2的排放……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:48.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:33:53.617000+08:00","text":"因為它轉成碳排放也是荼毒人民的肺，我覺得是這樣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:33:53.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:04.435000+08:00","text":"我請問電力公司台電，你們買一度電就賠一度，核四賠了兩千多億也還掛在帳上嘛，目前還不敢銷帳。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:04.435000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:05.886000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":0},{"speaker":"郭副總經理天合","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:05.886000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:07.337000+08:00","text":"報告委員……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:07.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:09.740000+08:00","text":"你們都沒有專業堅持，讓我們執政黨隨便這樣宰割。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:10.080000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:10.881000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下，現在是不是要漲電價，是嗎？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"郭副總經理天合","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:10.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:12.802000+08:00","text":"目前還沒有，現在電價審議委員會還沒有召開。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:12.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:13.183000+08:00","text":"還沒有召開？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:13.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:14.484000+08:00","text":"我是有聽到說，這個部分要推給立法院來扛這個責任？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"郭副總經理天合","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:28.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:36.943000+08:00","text":"報告委員，沒有，我們是尊重3月的電價審議委員會的決定。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:39.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:48.832000+08:00","text":"我覺得你們該有的專業判斷，你們還是要提出來，該講話的時候還是要講話，這個才是對你的專業來負責嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:49.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:50.594000+08:00","text":"好，那請回。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:51.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:59.935000+08:00","text":"我請教部長，我看到你們要成立空氣品質監測與預報中心，是這樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:34:59.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:34:59.935000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:00.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:14.165000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下，那剛剛講的，我們剛剛有講到要成立第二級空氣污染防制指揮中心，那跟現在你要成立的這個中心有沒有不一樣的地方？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:15.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:29.156000+08:00","text":"報告委員，過去空氣品質的監測跟預報都由我們的監資司來做，因為我們要強化AI的運用，所以我們把監資司改名叫做環境科技與資訊司，它強化AI數位治理的應用……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:29.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:31.397000+08:00","text":"所以這個不是再增加一個部門就對了？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:31.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:36.841000+08:00","text":"不是、不是，我們把它移過來，移到大氣司裡面，因為大氣司要負責應變，就從監測、預報到應變，把它整合起來……","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:36.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:37.382000+08:00","text":"只是單位換名稱就對了？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:41.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:45.746000+08:00","text":"單位換名稱，然後整合人力，並沒有額外增加新的預算或人力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:46.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:51.649000+08:00","text":"所以要成立這個是因為我們自己在業務上的考量？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:52.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:52.729000+08:00","text":"對，業務的考量。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:52.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:55.230000+08:00","text":"不是什麼氣候變遷委員會開會的時候決定的？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:55.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:56.010000+08:00","text":"不是、不是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:56.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:56.370000+08:00","text":"不是啦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:57.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:35:57.611000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:35:57.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:05.545000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下，做了這個檢測中心之後，如果現在空氣品質超標，然後呢，我們要怎麼辦？","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:06.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:09.188000+08:00","text":"然後這個中心現在從上游的監測到預報，到最後他們大氣司的應變，都會再統合一個單位來處理。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:15.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:18.564000+08:00","text":"等於它就有一個跨部會的功能？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:19.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:26.567000+08:00","text":"現在已經有了，但是我們希望它的功能性，還有人員的培訓可以更好，讓它大一點點，一起協同作業。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:26.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:28.287000+08:00","text":"超標之後我們要怎麼辦？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:28.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:40.272000+08:00","text":"超標之後，例如說，好，假設有二級，就由我們司長來召集環境部還有各個縣市的環保局一起來做，那如果一級很嚴重的，就是由環境部邀集各個部會一起來做應變。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:41.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:45.533000+08:00","text":"那有沒有計算過成本，這個要花多少經費？","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:46.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:48.094000+08:00","text":"這個都在我們原有的預算當中，並沒有增加預算。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:48.094000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:49.424500+08:00","text":"沒有增加啦？","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:49.424500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:50.755000+08:00","text":"對、對、對。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:50.755000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:57.537000+08:00","text":"重點是空氣污染最大的來源當然就是發電，不然你也不會叫台電降載嘛。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:36:57.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:36:57.557000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:37:00.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:37:24.664000+08:00","text":"我們看到民進黨執政快要10年了，能源政策是民進黨政府始終不敢面對的問題，拿著廢核的神主牌搖擺不定，到後來我覺得對臺灣來講傷害非常的大，長期使用火力發電，對老百姓的健康造成的影響是非常大的。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:37:25.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:37:44.426000+08:00","text":"我覺得，部長，你應該要儘早來解決這一個問題，我不敢講說你一定要把核能恢復，但是至少要找到一個更好的變通方法，當然也不是無條件的一直用綠能來替代火力發電，您認同嗎？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:37:48.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:38:01.973000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我也坦承剛剛有一個圖表說到我們的污染源來源裡面的這種固定污染源，例如說電力排放事業，其實我們移動污染源的量已經超過固定污染源了，所以交通也是我們努力的一個目標。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:38:02.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:38:14.520000+08:00","text":"剛剛委員提到的能源政策，其實火力發電包含燃氣跟燃煤，燃氣的部分雖然有排放二氧化碳，但是比燃煤少很多，其實二氧化碳它並不會對人體造成直接的影響，而且它的空污量會減少。","quality":0.908},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:38:16.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:38:22.506000+08:00","text":"我們現在如果要發展綠能或是新的能源，在這之前，燃氣還是一個必要的轉圜，當然……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:38:22.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:38:23.427000+08:00","text":"這個部分要多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:38:24.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:38:39.019000+08:00","text":"目前如果以我們在規劃的淨零路徑來看的話，當然是希望在2030年，例如說燃氣占比50%之後能夠慢慢、慢慢地往下降，逐步下降直到2050年會更好，可能只剩下百分之二十左右，當然會是更好的。","quality":0.773},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:38:40.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:38:40.516000+08:00","text":"還要那麼久啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:38:40.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:38:45.240000+08:00","text":"你們這個還要二、三十年欸。","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:38:45.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:38:59.711000+08:00","text":"對，因為氣開始蓋到用就要二十多年的時間，所以當然，但是報告委員，其實氣是大多數國家在面對轉型時的一個過渡型的能源，因為現在我們的再生能源並沒有那麼快，那麼順利的能夠建立起來。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:38:59.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:00.752000+08:00","text":"所以你們還是覺得現在廢核是對的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:04.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:21.731000+08:00","text":"我沒有說是對的，但是委員，我在當時算淨零路徑的時候，其實也發現到，核能如果要真的啟動的話，面臨到法令要修，然後還要辦安全檢查、核廢料的處理，還有延役也要一些費用，其實這些都是我無法去預期、預知的，所以……","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:21.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:23.713000+08:00","text":"你有沒有考慮過同步來做這件事情？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:25.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:36.183000+08:00","text":"目前以我的專業來看，當然這個要經濟部或是核安會來處理，但是以我的專業來看的話，的確是非常的困難，在臺灣，有一點挑戰。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:36.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:39.126000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得你那個時間點拉太長，對不對？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:39.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:41.408000+08:00","text":"我們國人的健康非常重要，絕對不能拖吧！對吧？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:43.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:53.548000+08:00","text":"對，但是委員，像核能如果要延役的話，核二加核三就是300億度的電，跟我們國家未來需要的電力，恐怕還需要更多……","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"邱委員鎮軍","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:54.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:55.489000+08:00","text":"我還是覺得，部長，請您發揮您的專業，該爭取的時候就要爭取，好不好？謝謝。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:55.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:56.070000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:56.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-17T10:39:56.510000+08:00","text":"謝謝邱委員，謝謝部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:39:57.010000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:07.010000+08:00","text":"我們現在要休息10分鐘，休息10分鐘之前提醒部長，這個CO2的監測是自動還是手動？自動。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:07.310000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:10.738571+08:00","text":"自動的，這個自動的比較不準……","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:11.038571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:12.467143+08:00","text":"超標了！對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:12.767143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:21.624286+08:00","text":"樓下的教育委員會應該是700，我們是教育委員會的double，再多一點點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"彭部長啓明","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:21.924286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:23.352857+08:00","text":"這樣太超過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:23.652857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:37.938571+08:00","text":"一般超過1,000就開始昏睡，其他的委員都8分鐘就離開了，你跟我在這邊要待到結束，所以是不是請部長趕快應變一下，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:38.238571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:40.238571+08:00","text":"好，休息10分鐘。謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:40.538571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:41.681429+08:00","text":"休息（10時40分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:41.981429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:43.695714+08:00","text":"繼續開會（10時51分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:43.995714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:47.710000+08:00","text":"休息時間到，我們現在繼續開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-17T10:40:48.010000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-17T10:40:51.724286+08:00","text":"接下來請涂權吉委員進行詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":574,"blocks":[["邱委員鎮軍：（10時29分）有請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["彭部長啓明：邱委員好。"],["邱委員鎮軍：部長好。我看了環境部的書面報告，注意到2月27日西半部空品持續惡化，為此，環境部曾成立中央第二級空氣污染防制指揮中心，並召集地方環保局等單位召開應變會議，且協調經濟部、台電公司進行協和、麥寮、臺中興達電廠降載減排，總共降載了11億3,199萬度的電量，對嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想請問部長，去年一年曾經幾次成立第二級或第一級防制指揮中心？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，大概有三年多沒有成立。"],["邱委員鎮軍：也就是說今年才發生比較嚴重的狀況？"],["彭部長啓明：污染這麼大的……"],["邱委員鎮軍：以前是怎麼樣？以前是我們的機器不好，還是怎麼樣？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有、沒有，剛好這次事件比較嚴重。另外，我們的AQI標準有修正。"],["邱委員鎮軍：有沒有查一下是什麼原因造成這個……"],["彭部長啓明：那天主要還是氣象因素，因為吹東風，以致整個西半部……最主要是我們的AQI加嚴了，讓AQI很容易達到不良等級。第二個，那天是氣象因素，吹東風……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以這三年來沒有成立過半次？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，大概三年多，所以我們也很慎重地成立應變中心。"],["邱委員鎮軍：臺灣企業用電需求越來越高，一旦成立空氣污染防制指揮中心，當降載與用電需求產生衝突時，是聽你的、還是聽經濟部的？"],["彭部長啓明：我們是一起協同作業。當然，我們不能讓全臺灣所有企業都不要用電，所以我們還是需要協同作業，互相協調來完成這件事。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我請經濟部代表來一下，好不好？"],["主席：國營司副司長及產發署、能源署。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你好。前年我國火力發電占比是82%，核能發電6.3%，對吧？"],["劉副司長起孝：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：現在我們準備讓核能歸零，我想請問一下，這部分的電力未來要用哪一種電來補？"],["劉副司長起孝：因為我們的能源轉型是減煤、增氣、展綠、非核，所以在核能電廠結束之後，我們就是增加天然氣發電、增加再生能源發電，並減少燃煤發電，目標是這樣子。至於占比，燃氣大概是50%，燃煤30%，再生能源20%。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你說燃氣是？"],["劉副司長起孝：50%。"],["邱委員鎮軍：50%？"],["劉副司長起孝：對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：然後呢？"],["劉副司長起孝：燃煤30%。"],["邱委員鎮軍：燃煤30%？"],["劉副司長起孝：對，再生能源20%。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那你燃煤還要一直用啊？還有你準備火力發電還是要繼續使用就對了？"],["劉副司長起孝：火力發電，其實包括燃煤跟燃氣都是火力發電。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，我的意思是說你這兩個加起來就幾%了？"],["劉副司長起孝：80。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對，將近80%了耶。"],["劉副司長起孝：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你認為這個不需要改嗎？"],["劉副司長起孝：這個部分就是說，增加天然氣是因為可以減少CO2的排放，大概是以這個為目標……"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是造成的污染呢？"],["劉副司長起孝：天然氣的污染是比較沒有這麼嚴重，所以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：怎麼會沒有那麼嚴重，我看天然氣的CO2的那個IPCC……"],["劉副司長起孝：是比燃煤減少很多。"],["邱委員鎮軍：對啊，它是差了將近，一個是820，然後一個是490，對吧？"],["劉副司長起孝：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：這兩個還算是高的啊。"],["劉副司長起孝：所以我們要努力發展再生能源。"],["邱委員鎮軍：你認為一直長期在使用的這個狀態，對我們國人的健康不會受到影響嗎？"],["劉副司長起孝：我們當然是希望能夠儘量減少污染的排放，還有包括CO2的排放……"],["邱委員鎮軍：因為它轉成碳排放也是荼毒人民的肺，我覺得是這樣。","我請問電力公司台電，你們買一度電就賠一度，核四賠了兩千多億也還掛在帳上嘛，目前還不敢銷帳。對不對？"],["郭副總經理天合：報告委員……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你們都沒有專業堅持，讓我們執政黨隨便這樣宰割。我想請問一下，現在是不是要漲電價，是嗎？"],["郭副總經理天合：目前還沒有，現在電價審議委員會還沒有召開。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還沒有召開？我是有聽到說，這個部分要推給立法院來扛這個責任？"],["郭副總經理天合：報告委員，沒有，我們是尊重3月的電價審議委員會的決定。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我覺得你們該有的專業判斷，你們還是要提出來，該講話的時候還是要講話，這個才是對你的專業來負責嘛，對不對？"],["郭副總經理天合：是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好，那請回。我請教部長，我看到你們要成立空氣品質監測與預報中心，是這樣嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：對、對、對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：我想請問一下，那剛剛講的，我們剛剛有講到要成立第二級空氣污染防制指揮中心，那跟現在你要成立的這個中心有沒有不一樣的地方？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，過去空氣品質的監測跟預報都由我們的監資司來做，因為我們要強化AI的運用，所以我們把監資司改名叫做環境科技與資訊司，它強化AI數位治理的應用……"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以這個不是再增加一個部門就對了？"],["彭部長啓明：不是、不是，我們把它移過來，移到大氣司裡面，因為大氣司要負責應變，就從監測、預報到應變，把它整合起來……"],["邱委員鎮軍：只是單位換名稱就對了？"],["彭部長啓明：單位換名稱，然後整合人力，並沒有額外增加新的預算或人力。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以要成立這個是因為我們自己在業務上的考量？"],["彭部長啓明：對，業務的考量。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是什麼氣候變遷委員會開會的時候決定的？"],["彭部長啓明：不是、不是。"],["邱委員鎮軍：不是啦？"],["彭部長啓明：對、對、對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：好。我想請問一下，做了這個檢測中心之後，如果現在空氣品質超標，然後呢，我們要怎麼辦？"],["彭部長啓明：然後這個中心現在從上游的監測到預報，到最後他們大氣司的應變，都會再統合一個單位來處理。"],["邱委員鎮軍：等於它就有一個跨部會的功能？"],["彭部長啓明：現在已經有了，但是我們希望它的功能性，還有人員的培訓可以更好，讓它大一點點，一起協同作業。"],["邱委員鎮軍：超標之後我們要怎麼辦？"],["彭部長啓明：超標之後，例如說，好，假設有二級，就由我們司長來召集環境部還有各個縣市的環保局一起來做，那如果一級很嚴重的，就是由環境部邀集各個部會一起來做應變。"],["邱委員鎮軍：那有沒有計算過成本，這個要花多少經費？"],["彭部長啓明：這個都在我們原有的預算當中，並沒有增加預算。"],["邱委員鎮軍：沒有增加啦？"],["彭部長啓明：對、對、對。"],["邱委員鎮軍：重點是空氣污染最大的來源當然就是發電，不然你也不會叫台電降載嘛。對不對？我們看到民進黨執政快要10年了，能源政策是民進黨政府始終不敢面對的問題，拿著廢核的神主牌搖擺不定，到後來我覺得對臺灣來講傷害非常的大，長期使用火力發電，對老百姓的健康造成的影響是非常大的。我覺得，部長，你應該要儘早來解決這一個問題，我不敢講說你一定要把核能恢復，但是至少要找到一個更好的變通方法，當然也不是無條件的一直用綠能來替代火力發電，您認同嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我也坦承剛剛有一個圖表說到我們的污染源來源裡面的這種固定污染源，例如說電力排放事業，其實我們移動污染源的量已經超過固定污染源了，所以交通也是我們努力的一個目標。剛剛委員提到的能源政策，其實火力發電包含燃氣跟燃煤，燃氣的部分雖然有排放二氧化碳，但是比燃煤少很多，其實二氧化碳它並不會對人體造成直接的影響，而且它的空污量會減少。我們現在如果要發展綠能或是新的能源，在這之前，燃氣還是一個必要的轉圜，當然……"],["邱委員鎮軍：這個部分要多久？"],["彭部長啓明：目前如果以我們在規劃的淨零路徑來看的話，當然是希望在2030年，例如說燃氣占比50%之後能夠慢慢、慢慢地往下降，逐步下降直到2050年會更好，可能只剩下百分之二十左右，當然會是更好的。"],["邱委員鎮軍：還要那麼久啊？你們這個還要二、三十年欸。"],["彭部長啓明：對，因為氣開始蓋到用就要二十多年的時間，所以當然，但是報告委員，其實氣是大多數國家在面對轉型時的一個過渡型的能源，因為現在我們的再生能源並沒有那麼快，那麼順利的能夠建立起來。"],["邱委員鎮軍：所以你們還是覺得現在廢核是對的？"],["彭部長啓明：我沒有說是對的，但是委員，我在當時算淨零路徑的時候，其實也發現到，核能如果要真的啟動的話，面臨到法令要修，然後還要辦安全檢查、核廢料的處理，還有延役也要一些費用，其實這些都是我無法去預期、預知的，所以……"],["邱委員鎮軍：你有沒有考慮過同步來做這件事情？"],["彭部長啓明：目前以我的專業來看，當然這個要經濟部或是核安會來處理，但是以我的專業來看的話，的確是非常的困難，在臺灣，有一點挑戰。"],["邱委員鎮軍：但是我覺得你那個時間點拉太長，對不對？我們國人的健康非常重要，絕對不能拖吧！對吧？"],["彭部長啓明：對，但是委員，像核能如果要延役的話，核二加核三就是300億度的電，跟我們國家未來需要的電力，恐怕還需要更多……"],["邱委員鎮軍：我還是覺得，部長，請您發揮您的專業，該爭取的時候就要爭取，好不好？謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝委員。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員，謝謝部長。","我們現在要休息10分鐘，休息10分鐘之前提醒部長，這個CO2的監測是自動還是手動？"],["彭部長啓明：自動。"],["主席：自動的，這個自動的比較不準……"],["彭部長啓明：超標了！"],["主席：對啊！樓下的教育委員會應該是700，我們是教育委員會的double，再多一點點。"],["彭部長啓明：這樣太超過。"],["主席：一般超過1,000就開始昏睡，其他的委員都8分鐘就離開了，你跟我在這邊要待到結束，所以是不是請部長趕快應變一下，好不好？好，休息10分鐘。謝謝。","休息（10時40分）","繼續開會（10時51分）"],["主席：休息時間到，我們現在繼續開會。接下來請涂權吉委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":284,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-3","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","盧縣一","王育敏","廖偉翔","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","麥玉珍","賴士葆","張啓楷","張智倫","楊曜","翁曉玲","劉建國","陳瑩","洪孟楷","陳培瑜","黃秀芳","蘇清泉"],"page_start":199,"meetingDate":["2025-03-17"],"gazette_id":"1142901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1142901_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、衛生福利部、教育部、經濟部、台灣電力公司、台灣中油公司就「氣象變異致\n國內空品惡化，精進預報與跨部會應變作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1142901_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}