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我請一下部長 郭部長委員好部長好 部長您上任到現在將近8個月嘛 對不對超過超過8個月了 適應這個環境嗎"},{"start":41.798,"end":66.765,"text":"漸漸融入漸漸融入我覺得今天您的回答剛剛前面兩位執政黨委員問您的話題我覺得您感覺上非常非常的謹慎不太像過去的郭志輝先生部長我想我還是針對最近大家關心的議題總預算沒過其實對於"},{"start":70.947,"end":95.584,"text":"台湾整个环境来讲其实影响非常大第一个水电这个就是大家要首先面临到的问题台电的1000亿波普没有在立法院通过那台电的累计亏损已经到4229亿元了这个累计的亏损越来越多就您经营一个公司这么久"},{"start":96.604,"end":110.025,"text":"如果這個虧損達到這樣這公司還能活得下去嗎他如果不做一些體質上或者是財務上的調整這樣的公司經營得下去嗎報告委員如果以我的經驗來講"},{"start":112.174,"end":131.468,"text":"從各個管理面我們來看這個問題是到底今天造成目前的負債是什麼樣的原因我要知道原因才能夠找到問題然後這個找到問題我才能夠對症下藥好嘛那你一定知道台電的原因是什麼嘛對不對就是"},{"start":133.12,"end":149.535,"text":"動漲造成所有的一切都是動漲 只漲工業用電只漲民生用電 只漲用電大戶 千度以上的那所有的民生用電全部動漲的結果立法院也不給撥補 也不給漲價什麼都不要"},{"start":154.212,"end":178.488,"text":"那台電的虧損就會越來越多嘛是不是這樣那我要請教就是說未來我認為調整電價應該是勢在必行啦雖然電價審議委員會還沒有開會但是調整電價應該是勢在必行調整的幅度到什麼程度這個可能還要經過再更詳細的討論嘛部長您同意我的看法嗎完全同意好"},{"start":179.088,"end":191.314,"text":"如果您同意我的看法 我覺得經濟部現在下一步要做的是應該要去研議你們要如何降低民生用電跟小商店因為電價調漲所帶來的負擔"},{"start":196.53,"end":222.27,"text":"你們要怎麼樣去做要怎麼樣去減輕他的負擔有一個東西叫做節電補助但是這個節電補助呢預算也被凍結了那預算凍結的理由是因為要叫你們考慮這個核電重啟所以要叫你們寫一個報告然後要到立法院來專案報告以後節能補助的費用才能恢復所以節能補助很快的他可能就會"},{"start":223.444,"end":248.674,"text":"沒有這些設備沒有這些錢可以用那民生住宅小商店的電價又要漲昨天曾文森董事長說啦如果台電用韓國的電價去收費的話我們到2024年其實是可以盈餘1539億你就微幅調漲你如果比照韓國的電價是作為微幅調漲其實是可以有盈餘的"},{"start":250.848,"end":272.352,"text":"部長如果您看這個表您會怎麼做這個是昨天曾文森講他昨天已經講過了我現在要聽一下您的意見我沒有去看到這個命題我現在把這個PowerPoint放在您的眼前讓您看來文森你要不要那個曾董事長你要不要你要補充說明嗎請董事長補充說明"},{"start":275.66,"end":299.64,"text":"那個報告部長還有報告那個委員喔我是拿現在韓國的電價然後就是2024年韓國的電價然後套在我們的用電度數因為它也是民生電價和工業電價分開計算是我知道所以如果你依照這樣韓國的這個電價的幅度台灣會漲到這樣的幅度嗎會不會"},{"start":303.291,"end":321.822,"text":"我們應該是不用漲那麼高啦我們當然剛才委員所關心的這個CPI的部分我想我們這個是院長也有指示我們希望努力讓國人在物價的通膨上面不要超過2%那電價的調漲多少會影響因素所以我們會想辦法"},{"start":327.796,"end":347.867,"text":"然後來這個努力然後來調整那調整當然是要這個電價委員會的同意不過我們會去細算用什麼樣最適化的不是最好但是最合適的這個方法來提出來然後來請這個委員指導這樣好 部長"},{"start":349.471,"end":372.986,"text":"如果說您剛剛講的這個電價調整的部分還有有待電價審議委員會去審議那這個是你們之前也是您之前說的要到菲律賓去種綠電那這個報告已經送到經濟委員會來了我大概看了一下幾頁的報告我看完以後我其實不太知道到底經濟部在說什麼"},{"start":373.906,"end":389.96,"text":"到底是可行還是不可行因為然後我看了幾大媒體的標題我看到晚上以後我就跟我的助理說那到底是可行還是不可行因為早上看的是不可行下午看的又說是可以然後到晚上看了我已經不知道他可不可以了"},{"start":391.113,"end":414.205,"text":"結果現在又有一個標說 郭之輝部長不放棄 韓可行 未來的成本會下降到底菲律賓重綠電這件事情 除了你們送過來的報告以外經濟部內部有沒有經過很妥適的討論 很深入的討論它到底可不可以 那你說未來的技術或者是價格"},{"start":415.605,"end":436.573,"text":"這個部分你的評估標準是什麼評估基準是什麼部長我讓您說明一下報告委員我想在這個地方謝謝你讓我有機會來說明那我們那一份是可行性分析也就是說去或者不去先做一個可行性分析我們認為這個報告顯示是可行的"},{"start":437.273,"end":451.318,"text":"第二個有一些限制的問題我們在評估我變成要到實地去考察實地去了解才能夠再做更深層的這個計算那麼剛才講說我就回答你這個5塊5的這個問題"},{"start":454.039,"end":475.696,"text":"我們的同仁他們拿的計算方法是現在日本從北海道送到本州的然後一個儲能櫃大概是2.5M的計算方式跟委員報告目前我們國內的廠商可以做到一個儲能櫃5M也就是兩倍"},{"start":476.517,"end":501.903,"text":"日本他們現在可以做到8M那麼我跟日本的這個廠商對接過以後他們跟我講他們可以做到10M也就是說5塊5這個價格當儲能櫃到10M的時候5塊5必須除以4所以他的這個送電回來的價格大概只有1.25那你的10M是現在就可以做還是未來三年可以做"},{"start":503.035,"end":528.881,"text":"您講日本說他可以做到10M 是現在可以做現在是8M年底會到10M今年年底就會到10M所以像這些東西我覺得在你們的所謂的可行性評估報告裡頭是沒有展現我想要再簡單的再問一題這個大概是跟我的地方上的建設是很有關係的因為預算被動預算沒有過新興計畫沒有辦法做"},{"start":532.742,"end":549.58,"text":"部長這個你應該要去了解所有的河川疏浚水利署所做的這些河川疏浚的工作或者是水利的建置的工作防淹水的工作因為預算沒過很多的新興計畫是沒有辦法做的"},{"start":550.22,"end":574.219,"text":"那這個我希望水利署趕快去把它整理出來你們現在所受的影響有哪些我現在講的是六歸老農溪的部分全台灣類似這樣的一個新興的計畫河川的治理計畫是非常多的我認為你們應該把這些整理出來然後讓當地的委員很清楚了解"},{"start":575.881,"end":597.697,"text":"這個對治水對於防災會產生的重大影響啊不要大家在那裡預算山爽的啊然後淹水又來罵政府啊所以我是不是能夠要求水利署你們把你們這些防災防洪的新興計畫受到影響的全部把它名列出來可以嗎"},{"start":599.269,"end":624.379,"text":"這個可以部長我想這個應該要讓民眾很清楚的知道亂山預算對於治災防洪會產生的影響對於我們這項新興計畫六龜老農溪過去88風災的時候受創嚴重還好這幾年有這樣的一個包括前瞻的治水包括各式各樣的治水的計畫"},{"start":626.343,"end":635.238,"text":"那如果預算被刪了以後未來怎麼辦所以我請你們要趕快把這些東西整理出來要讓民眾清楚了解好嗎我們馬上處理謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:41:22.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:41:24.014000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-20T09:41:24.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:41:32.877000+08:00","text":"請郭部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:41:32.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:41:33.097000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:41:34.038000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:41:34.338000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:41:35.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:41:39.860000+08:00","text":"部長，你上任到現在將近8個月，對不對？超過。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:41:39.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:41:41.380000+08:00","text":"超過8個月了，適應這個環境嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:41:44.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:41:45.018000+08:00","text":"漸漸融入。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:41:51.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:42:03.203000+08:00","text":"剛剛前面兩位執政黨委員問你的話題，我覺得今天你的回答非常謹慎，不太像過去的郭智輝先生。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:42:05.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:42:44.752000+08:00","text":"部長，我還是針對最近大家關心的議題，總預算沒過其實對於臺灣整個環境來講影響非常大，第一個，水電就是大家首先面臨到的問題，台電的1,000億撥補沒有在立法院通過，台電的累計虧損已經到4,229億元，累計的虧損越來越多，就你經營一個公司這麼久，如果虧損達到這樣的程度，這個公司還能活得下去嗎？","quality":0.672},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:42:44.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:42:50.861000+08:00","text":"它如果不做一些體質上或者是財務上的調整，這樣公司經營得下去嗎？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:42:50.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:43:03.320000+08:00","text":"報告委員，如果以我的經驗來講，從各個管理面來看這個問題，造成目前的負債到底是什麼樣的原因？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:43:04.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:43:10.525000+08:00","text":"我要知道原因才能夠找到問題，找到問題才能夠對症下藥。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:43:10.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:43:14.247000+08:00","text":"好，你一定知道台電的原因是什麼，對不對？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:43:14.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:43:17.081000+08:00","text":"就是凍漲造成。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:43:17.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:43:41.014000+08:00","text":"所有的一切都是凍漲，只漲工業用電，民生用電只漲用電大戶、千度以上的，所有的民生用電全部凍漲的結果，立法院不給予撥補，也不給漲價，什麼都不要，台電的虧損就會越來越多，是不是這樣？是。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:43:41.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:44:00.667000+08:00","text":"我要請教的是，我認為未來調整電價應該是勢在必行，雖然電價審議委員會還沒有開會，但是調整電價應該是勢在必行，至於調整的幅度到什麼程度，可能還要再經過更詳細的討論，部長，你同意我的看法嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:44:00.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:44:01.228000+08:00","text":"完全同意。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:44:02.088000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:44:23.333000+08:00","text":"如果你同意我的看法，我覺得經濟部下一步要做的是，應該要研議如何降低民生用電和小商店因為電價調漲所帶來的負擔，你們要怎麼樣去做、要怎麼樣去減輕它的負擔？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:44:23.333000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:44:48.365000+08:00","text":"有一個政策是節電補助，但是節電補助的預算也被凍結了，預算凍結的理由是因為要叫你們考慮核電重啟，所以你們要寫一個報告，並且要到立法院專案報告以後，節能補助的費用才能恢復，所以節能補助很快可能就會沒有這些設備、沒有這些錢可以用。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:44:49.265000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:44:54.167000+08:00","text":"民生住宅、小商店的電價又要漲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:44:54.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:05.431000+08:00","text":"昨天曾文生董事長說了，如果台電用韓國電價去收費的話，我們到2024年其實是可以盈餘1,539億。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:07.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:11.654000+08:00","text":"如果比照韓國的電價是微幅調漲，其實是可以有盈餘的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:13.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:16.068000+08:00","text":"部長，如果您看這個表，您會怎麼做？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:16.068000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:17.068000+08:00","text":"我是不是請曾董事長……","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:17.068000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:18.068000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:17.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:24.390000+08:00","text":"這是昨天曾文生講的，他昨天已經講過了，我現在要聽一下您的意見。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:24.390000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:25.390000+08:00","text":"我不會害你啦！","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:24.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:26.831000+08:00","text":"我沒有看到這個命題，所以……有、有！","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:26.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:30.491000+08:00","text":"我現在把這個PowerPoint放在您的眼前，讓您看了。是、是。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:33.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:35.112000+08:00","text":"曾董事長，你要補充說明嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:35.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:35.332000+08:00","text":"請董事長補充說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾董事長文生","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:39.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:53.172000+08:00","text":"報告部長及委員，我是拿現在韓國的電價，就是用2024年韓國的電價套在我們的用電度數，因為它也是民生電價和工業電價分開計算，我們是拿這個來計算、試算後，台電是可以獲利的。","quality":0.699},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:54.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:45:55.014000+08:00","text":"是，我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:45:56.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:46:02.620000+08:00","text":"如果台電依照韓國電價的幅度，臺灣會漲到這樣的幅度嗎？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:46:02.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:46:02.640000+08:00","text":"會不會？","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:46:06.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:46:08.152000+08:00","text":"我們應該是不用漲那麼高啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:46:09.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:46:23.041000+08:00","text":"當然剛才委員所關心的CPI，院長也有指示，我們希望努力讓國人在物價通膨上面，不要超過2%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:46:23.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:46:38.140000+08:00","text":"電價調漲多少會是影響因素，所以我們會想辦法努力來調整，當然調整是要電價委員會的同意。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:46:39+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:46:49.166000+08:00","text":"不過我們會去細算，用什麼樣最適化的，不是最好，但是最合適的方法提出來，然後請委員指導。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:46:50.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:47:00.596000+08:00","text":"部長，如果您剛剛講的電價調整還有待電價審議委員會去審議。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:47:01.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:47:18.367000+08:00","text":"這是你們之前，也是您之前說的要到菲律賓去種綠電，這份報告已經送到經濟委員會來了，我大概看了一下，看完幾頁的報告以後，我其實不太知道到底經濟部在說什麼，到底是可行，還是不可行？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:47:19.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:47:26.834000+08:00","text":"我看了幾大媒體的標題，我看到晚上以後，就問我的助理說：到底是可行，還是不可行？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:47:27.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:47:32.940000+08:00","text":"因為早上看的是不可行，下午看的又說可以，然後到晚上看，我已經不知道它可不可以了。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:47:34.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:47:41.037000+08:00","text":"結果現在又有一個標題說：郭智輝部長喊不放棄、喊可行，未來的成本會下降。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:47:42.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:47:53.923000+08:00","text":"到底菲律賓種綠電這件事情，除了你們送過來的報告以外，經濟部內部有沒有經過很妥適地討論、很深入地討論，到底可不可以？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:47:54.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:48:01.106000+08:00","text":"你說未來的技術或者是價格，這部分的評估標準是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:48:01.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:48:02.327000+08:00","text":"評估基準是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:48:02.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:48:03.387000+08:00","text":"部長，我讓您說明一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:48:03.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:48:31.517000+08:00","text":"報告委員，在這個地方謝謝你讓我有機會說明，我們那一份是可行性分析，也就是去或者不去先做一個可行性分析，我們認為這份報告顯示是可行的；第二個，有一些限制的問題，我們再評估，變成要到實地去考察、實地去瞭解，才能夠再做更深層的計算。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:48:32.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:48:49.649000+08:00","text":"剛才講到的，我就回答你5塊5的問題，我們同仁拿的計算方法是現在日本從北海道送到本州的，一個儲能櫃大概是2.5MW的計算方式。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:48:50.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:49:02.118000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，目前我們國內的廠商可以做到一個儲能櫃5MW，也就是兩倍，日本現在可以做到8MW。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:49:04.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:49:21.982000+08:00","text":"我跟日本的廠商對接過以後，他們跟我講，他們可以做到10MW，也就是5塊5這個價格，當儲能櫃到10MW的時候，5塊5必須除以4，所以它送電回來的價格大概只有1.25。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:49:22.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:49:24.883000+08:00","text":"你的10MW是現在就可以做，還是未來三年可以做？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:49:26.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:49:29.156000+08:00","text":"您講的日本可以做到10MW，是現在可以做？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:49:30.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:49:32.357000+08:00","text":"現在是8MW，年底會到10MW。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:49:32.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:49:33.657000+08:00","text":"現在是8MW，今年年底就會到10MW？對！好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:49:35.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:49:43.459000+08:00","text":"所以像這些東西，我覺得在你們所謂的可行性評估報告裡頭是沒有展現的。是。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:49:43.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:49:51.861000+08:00","text":"我想要簡單地再問一題，這大概是跟我的地方上建設很有關係，因為預算被凍、預算沒有過，新興計畫沒有辦法做。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:49:55.742000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:50:20.566000+08:00","text":"部長，你應該要去瞭解，所有的河川疏濬，包括水利署所做的河川疏濬工作或者是水利建置工作、防淹水工作，因為預算沒過，很多的新興計畫是沒有辦法做的，我希望水利署趕快去把它整理出來，你們現在所受的影響有哪些。","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:50:21.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:50:50.209000+08:00","text":"我現在講的是六龜荖濃溪的部分，全臺灣類似這樣的新興計畫、河川治理計畫是非常多的，我認為你們應該把這些整理出來，讓當地委員很清楚瞭解這個對治水、對於防災會產生的重大影響，不要大家在那裡預算刪爽的，淹水又來罵政府啊！","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:50:51.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:51:00.697000+08:00","text":"我是不是能夠要求水利署，你們把這些防災防洪的新興計畫受到影響的全部明列出來，可以嗎？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:51:02.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:51:02.449000+08:00","text":"這個可以。好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:51:03.490000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:51:33.190000+08:00","text":"部長，我想這應該要讓民眾很清楚地知道，亂刪預算對於治水防洪會產生的影響，對於這項新興計畫，六龜荖農溪過去八八風災的時候受創嚴重，還好這幾年有這樣的計畫，包括前瞻的治水、包括各式各樣的治水計畫，如果預算被刪了以後，未來怎麼辦？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"邱委員議瑩","start":"2025-03-20T09:51:33.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:51:37.717000+08:00","text":"我請你們要趕快把這些東西整理出來，要讓民眾清楚瞭解，好嗎？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"郭部長智輝","start":"2025-03-20T09:51:37.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-20T09:51:38.238000+08:00","text":"是，我們馬上處理。謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-20T09:51:38.738000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-20T09:51:41.595143+08:00","text":"現在請張啓楷委員詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":122,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時41分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請郭部長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["邱委員議瑩：部長好。部長，你上任到現在將近8個月，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：超過。"],["邱委員議瑩：超過8個月了，適應這個環境嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：漸漸融入。"],["邱委員議瑩：剛剛前面兩位執政黨委員問你的話題，我覺得今天你的回答非常謹慎，不太像過去的郭智輝先生。部長，我還是針對最近大家關心的議題，總預算沒過其實對於臺灣整個環境來講影響非常大，第一個，水電就是大家首先面臨到的問題，台電的1,000億撥補沒有在立法院通過，台電的累計虧損已經到4,229億元，累計的虧損越來越多，就你經營一個公司這麼久，如果虧損達到這樣的程度，這個公司還能活得下去嗎？它如果不做一些體質上或者是財務上的調整，這樣公司經營得下去嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，如果以我的經驗來講，從各個管理面來看這個問題，造成目前的負債到底是什麼樣的原因？我要知道原因才能夠找到問題，找到問題才能夠對症下藥。"],["邱委員議瑩：好，你一定知道台電的原因是什麼，對不對？"],["郭部長智輝：就是凍漲造成。"],["邱委員議瑩：所有的一切都是凍漲，只漲工業用電，民生用電只漲用電大戶、千度以上的，所有的民生用電全部凍漲的結果，立法院不給予撥補，也不給漲價，什麼都不要，台電的虧損就會越來越多，是不是這樣？"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：我要請教的是，我認為未來調整電價應該是勢在必行，雖然電價審議委員會還沒有開會，但是調整電價應該是勢在必行，至於調整的幅度到什麼程度，可能還要再經過更詳細的討論，部長，你同意我的看法嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：完全同意。"],["邱委員議瑩：如果你同意我的看法，我覺得經濟部下一步要做的是，應該要研議如何降低民生用電和小商店因為電價調漲所帶來的負擔，你們要怎麼樣去做、要怎麼樣去減輕它的負擔？有一個政策是節電補助，但是節電補助的預算也被凍結了，預算凍結的理由是因為要叫你們考慮核電重啟，所以你們要寫一個報告，並且要到立法院專案報告以後，節能補助的費用才能恢復，所以節能補助很快可能就會沒有這些設備、沒有這些錢可以用。民生住宅、小商店的電價又要漲。昨天曾文生董事長說了，如果台電用韓國電價去收費的話，我們到2024年其實是可以盈餘1,539億。如果比照韓國的電價是微幅調漲，其實是可以有盈餘的。部長，如果您看這個表，您會怎麼做？"],["郭部長智輝：我是不是請曾董事長……"],["邱委員議瑩：沒有、沒有。這是昨天曾文生講的，他昨天已經講過了，我現在要聽一下您的意見。我不會害你啦！"],["郭部長智輝：我沒有看到這個命題，所以……"],["邱委員議瑩：有、有！我現在把這個PowerPoint放在您的眼前，讓您看了。"],["郭部長智輝：是、是。"],["邱委員議瑩：曾董事長，你要補充說明嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：請董事長補充說明。"],["曾董事長文生：報告部長及委員，我是拿現在韓國的電價，就是用2024年韓國的電價套在我們的用電度數，因為它也是民生電價和工業電價分開計算，我們是拿這個來計算、試算後，台電是可以獲利的。"],["邱委員議瑩：是，我知道。如果台電依照韓國電價的幅度，臺灣會漲到這樣的幅度嗎？會不會？"],["郭部長智輝：我們應該是不用漲那麼高啦！當然剛才委員所關心的CPI，院長也有指示，我們希望努力讓國人在物價通膨上面，不要超過2%。電價調漲多少會是影響因素，所以我們會想辦法努力來調整，當然調整是要電價委員會的同意。不過我們會去細算，用什麼樣最適化的，不是最好，但是最合適的方法提出來，然後請委員指導。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。部長，如果您剛剛講的電價調整還有待電價審議委員會去審議。這是你們之前，也是您之前說的要到菲律賓去種綠電，這份報告已經送到經濟委員會來了，我大概看了一下，看完幾頁的報告以後，我其實不太知道到底經濟部在說什麼，到底是可行，還是不可行？我看了幾大媒體的標題，我看到晚上以後，就問我的助理說：到底是可行，還是不可行？因為早上看的是不可行，下午看的又說可以，然後到晚上看，我已經不知道它可不可以了。結果現在又有一個標題說：郭智輝部長喊不放棄、喊可行，未來的成本會下降。到底菲律賓種綠電這件事情，除了你們送過來的報告以外，經濟部內部有沒有經過很妥適地討論、很深入地討論，到底可不可以？你說未來的技術或者是價格，這部分的評估標準是什麼？評估基準是什麼？部長，我讓您說明一下。"],["郭部長智輝：報告委員，在這個地方謝謝你讓我有機會說明，我們那一份是可行性分析，也就是去或者不去先做一個可行性分析，我們認為這份報告顯示是可行的；第二個，有一些限制的問題，我們再評估，變成要到實地去考察、實地去瞭解，才能夠再做更深層的計算。剛才講到的，我就回答你5塊5的問題，我們同仁拿的計算方法是現在日本從北海道送到本州的，一個儲能櫃大概是2.5MW的計算方式。跟委員報告，目前我們國內的廠商可以做到一個儲能櫃5MW，也就是兩倍，日本現在可以做到8MW。我跟日本的廠商對接過以後，他們跟我講，他們可以做到10MW，也就是5塊5這個價格，當儲能櫃到10MW的時候，5塊5必須除以4，所以它送電回來的價格大概只有1.25。"],["邱委員議瑩：你的10MW是現在就可以做，還是未來三年可以做？您講的日本可以做到10MW，是現在可以做？"],["郭部長智輝：現在是8MW，年底會到10MW。"],["邱委員議瑩：現在是8MW，今年年底就會到10MW？"],["郭部長智輝：對！"],["邱委員議瑩：好。所以像這些東西，我覺得在你們所謂的可行性評估報告裡頭是沒有展現的。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["邱委員議瑩：我想要簡單地再問一題，這大概是跟我的地方上建設很有關係，因為預算被凍、預算沒有過，新興計畫沒有辦法做。部長，你應該要去瞭解，所有的河川疏濬，包括水利署所做的河川疏濬工作或者是水利建置工作、防淹水工作，因為預算沒過，很多的新興計畫是沒有辦法做的，我希望水利署趕快去把它整理出來，你們現在所受的影響有哪些。我現在講的是六龜荖濃溪的部分，全臺灣類似這樣的新興計畫、河川治理計畫是非常多的，我認為你們應該把這些整理出來，讓當地委員很清楚瞭解這個對治水、對於防災會產生的重大影響，不要大家在那裡預算刪爽的，淹水又來罵政府啊！我是不是能夠要求水利署，你們把這些防災防洪的新興計畫受到影響的全部明列出來，可以嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：這個可以。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。部長，我想這應該要讓民眾很清楚地知道，亂刪預算對於治水防洪會產生的影響，對於這項新興計畫，六龜荖農溪過去八八風災的時候受創嚴重，還好這幾年有這樣的計畫，包括前瞻的治水、包括各式各樣的治水計畫，如果預算被刪了以後，未來怎麼辦？我請你們要趕快把這些東西整理出來，要讓民眾清楚瞭解，好嗎？"],["郭部長智輝：是，我們馬上處理。"],["邱委員議瑩：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。現在請張啓楷委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-3","speakers":["謝衣鳯","林岱樺","賴瑞隆","邱議瑩","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","楊瓊瓔","陳亭妃","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱志偉","張嘉郡","呂玉玲","賴士葆","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","郭國文","陳昭姿","林月琴","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","陳冠廷","徐富癸","羅智強","陳超明","林德福","牛煦庭","蔡易餘"],"page_start":193,"meetingDate":["2025-03-20"],"gazette_id":"1143002","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143002_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143002_00004"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}