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有沒有"},{"start":150.508,"end":172.647,"text":"我們因為是WTO的國家所以我們的關稅其實都是在不是我是你聽清楚我們對美國跟對其他國家有沒有對其他國家比較好對美國特別不好沒有啊這就是平等嘛對我們沒有我們對其他國家跟對美國是平等的好接下來我要請教一下那對等的部分我們往下看下一頁不往上"},{"start":174.087,"end":200.805,"text":"好 台灣對美國的關稅相較其他國家而言除了個別已經簽了FTA的國家之外美國進口到台灣的關稅跟其他WTO國家到我們台灣是相等 公平的嘛我看次長點頭啦 江次長點頭 是不是這樣公平 很好那麼 台美之間的關稅我們彼此之間差距有沒有特別大我現在講的是什麼 對等"},{"start":201.752,"end":222.47,"text":"你美國在一些項目剛剛之前有幾位委員說同一個品項你課我多少我就課你多少這不全然是如此啊因為每個國家有每個國家內部的政策需要所以有些品項可能你對我課的少我會對你課的多有些品項你對我課的多我對你課的少但是總體來講彼此的待遇有沒有相等部長你認為有沒有"},{"start":226.863,"end":247.298,"text":"基本上這關稅我們剛剛在報告裡面都有分析那直接講答案有沒有答案你認為相不相等跟其他國家美國跟其他國家我們對待是相等的我們其實對美國眼中不是很相等但是不是最嚴重的不相等是不是江次長是不是這樣子你認為美國會認為我們跟他的關稅是對等的嗎總體來講"},{"start":251.348,"end":279.353,"text":"就工業產品來說其實差距不會很大不會很大但是還是我們有一點比較占一點便宜嘛大家點頭了嘛好所以呢整體來講關稅應該不會是這個核心如果相較於其他國家美國要兌付其他國家比我們更應該兌付但是結果是什麼往下看台灣就是整個貿易結果怎樣我們跟其他國家比對比平等我們彼此之間相對等但是我們的順差實在是太大了"},{"start":280.766,"end":289.959,"text":"整個貿易量往台灣單方面傾斜 怎麼改善好 我講這個答案就有了 剛剛委員都問過了我就直接揭曉啦 往下看"},{"start":290.919,"end":309.869,"text":"我們去看一看,我們台美貿易之間,今天你們的報告有個很大的一個問題是說,你們在細數台灣跟美國之間的貿易往來的品項,那個幫助有限啊。他能賣我們多少,我們能買多少,繼承的就在那裡了嘛。我們要問的是說,美國賣其他國家賣什麼?這十大類產品。我們跟其他國家進口什麼?"},{"start":314.841,"end":341.156,"text":"只要把這十項交叉比對你會發現第一優先的是什麼石油燃料嘛美國對其他國家出口的前十名的第一名是石化燃料台灣從其他國家進口的前十名的第三名是石化燃料答案就出來了啊美國賣那麼多石化燃料出去給每個國家台灣也從其他國家進了很多石化燃料我們跟美國多買嘛市長 江市長是不是這個意思"},{"start":342.563,"end":364.46,"text":"是的 好 但是有人會懷疑 欸 不是一個核能設備嗎美國也出過很多核能設備 台灣也進口很多核能設備的維護啊但是後面看一看 如果這個項目我們已經Match了那可能成長空間就有限 所以我要提醒這一點還有人提到什麼 提到汽車 有沒有 汽車是不是也是機密儀器"},{"start":367.369,"end":395.21,"text":"你把這個台美互相對其他國家的貿易往來比一比就可以看出什麼哪些地方有潛力的項目嘛好 往下看所以 能源美國出口最多天然氣的它賣天然氣給歐洲最多再來是亞洲 再來是拉美台灣進口天然氣的第一個是澳洲 再來是卡達 再來是美國油的話呢 我們跟沙烏地阿拉伯進口最多跟美國相稱 再來是科威特但是呢 原油的部分"},{"start":396.889,"end":422.229,"text":"美國都沒有賣到台灣來啊所以嘛剛剛的委員就講下一頁很多人就講了嘛就是天然氣嘛我們本來跟誰買天然氣我們本來買天然氣最多的是澳洲卡達美國占10%而已現在呢我們盡量的跟阿拉斯加買天然氣剛剛郭委員也講了賴委員也講了問題的解方有很困難嗎"},{"start":423.717,"end":446.613,"text":"但是問題的做法才是困難啊所以今天我們在討論這個問題我說基本的常識合理的邏輯推出來的解方要靠各位去執行好 我們往下看所以呢這些呢 來我們看一下波音公司採韓通公司採購波音新機江次長最近台灣的國行有跟美國大局的買客機嗎只買了這些啊"},{"start":450.646,"end":478.402,"text":"是買了這些啊 有沒有 華航買實價長榮買這些 長榮是民營的華航可不可以多買華航同一時間還買Airbus啊 買空巴啊華航每次要採購 就有人在叫叫叫啊哎呀 華航那個這個 跟美國交保護費啊不是 是平衡什麼 台美貿易逆差市長 是不是這樣子是要不要跟行政院反映一下 我們副總代表那個 嚴副總代表 是不是這樣"},{"start":480.475,"end":508.663,"text":"是沒錯嘛所以政策要清楚我們對美採購是要平衡台美貿易逆差台美貿易的這個順差差距就這麼簡單往下看國防支出這裡面上面那個表沒有寫因為沒有統計我們沒有辦法統計美國跟全世界出售了多少的軍購但是我們台灣跟美國買了多少軍購很清楚軍購這個供應市場啊美國大概是獨家啦"},{"start":509.571,"end":537.884,"text":"台灣想要去買不跟別人買也沒辦法現在是不是既然你川普政府要我們平衡台美的貿易我們多買軍購我們的江次長這個不是你管的你覺得站在你進步立場有沒有道理是的賴總統也有講到我們會增加我們國防採購GDP要達到3%嘛是不是到3%好所以接下來我們幾位先暫時留著我現在問下一個題目財政部"},{"start":538.999,"end":549.426,"text":"受險業投資公件開大門這是陳副主委 這金管會公布的嘛對不對前天公布嘛 昨天的報紙很大的寬弧嘛有什麼效果"},{"start":550.851,"end":580.026,"text":"效果是什麼其實因為呢我們在一個不管在高雄高雄的一個專區而且我們會把它RBC若是公共建設降到1.28所以說簡單講啦這是一個極大的誘因搜選公司掌握了我們很多的國民鈔和儲蓄啦必須要有投資管道啦你開放公建這些錢就不用去買美債可以在國內投資是不是這樣簡單講是好那他可以直接買公建嗎不是嘛要有什麼要有投顧嘛是不是這樣子所以我們看到了"},{"start":581.079,"end":608.275,"text":"當我們要發展國際型金控的時候一定要有規模部長 你來看一下 來 下一頁今天的社論說什麼公股投信整併應該積極推動第一金 兆豐投信 合庫投信還有呢 華南永昌投信公股的這四家現在金管會已經把受險的市場顧客幫你找好了可以投資公建了他等著要買啊誰要來服務這些受險的客戶"},{"start":609.542,"end":638.629,"text":"就是我們公股的這四家嘛結果呢你看一下總資產額這麼小這麼小不合併沒有競爭力所以近期財政部近期發布報告讓大家對於公股投信的合併前感到悲觀報告聲稱四家公股金控投信診病的可行性及縱效上沒有共識這些投信的不可替代性診病缺乏規模經濟效益及員工意願不足等部長這是你們財政部的態度嗎"},{"start":640.269,"end":662.855,"text":"我想對這個有關這個整併的部分我們持續也會去了解經營管會已經把這樣的市場顧客都找好了國內的授權公司可以來投資國內的公件不用再去買美債了那我們國內是不是要有人來幫我們操作操作是不是要有一定的規模都有人說我們的國泰金我們的這個"},{"start":666.058,"end":677.15,"text":"互幫全部加起來 才能進入世界的有競爭力的排行榜所以規模很大 結論來了所以請經濟部 江市長請經濟部盤點我國進口品項大宗 據移轉向沒採購的潛力金單 可以嗎有些數據你們還看得到 我還找不到啊"},{"start":686.52,"end":713.492,"text":"報告委員我們現在正在做這件事現在正在做什麼時候可以給本席因為這個涉及未來跟對美如果有必要要做談判所以不能公開這是事實發生的啊對不對潛力清單嘛有可能嘛多買波音客機嘛多買軍購嘛多買天然氣嘛這是我們嘗試判斷得到的嘛嘗試判斷不到的要告訴我們大象大象給社會行政共識第二財政部莊部長"},{"start":715.486,"end":719.028,"text":"請財政部就公股投信士兵醫的效益評估和其層提出報告並對相關的法規示你一個清單可以嗎好的"},{"start":733.415,"end":744.536,"text":"那個字改掉了是效益評估和時間表對不起我漏了時間表什麼時候可以給是不是給我們三個月的時間三個月所以我的時間表還在加上三個月等你給時間表"},{"start":746.691,"end":764.483,"text":"時間表上第一欄就是要三個月給好 可以 三個月可以等你總之公股投信勢並一一定要有進度因為今晚會相關的法規已經做了準備財政部不要怯於邁出這第一步好不好好 謝謝謝謝委員謝謝眾委員的諮詢下面請李燕秀委員諮詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:27.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:31.808000+08:00","text":"主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:32.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:41.595000+08:00","text":"有請財政部莊部長和央行的朱副總裁、經濟部的江次長以及經貿談判辦公室的顏副總代表。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:41.595000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:43.997000+08:00","text":"莊部長、朱副總裁、經濟部的江次長、顏副總代表。","quality":0.211},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:43.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:47.159000+08:00","text":"另外，後面有一題可能會要請金管會陳副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:48.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:50.281000+08:00","text":"請陳副主委，一起上來好了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:51.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:51.902000+08:00","text":"也可以節省時間。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:54.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:54.368000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:54.368000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:55.929000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:15:55.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:15:59.670000+08:00","text":"副主委、次長、副總裁還有副總代表。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:16:00.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:16:21.619000+08:00","text":"今天這個問題看起來很專業，其實邏輯很簡單，有嘗試的概念，就可以來找出解決的方向，但是解決的方法需要各位的專業來處理，我早上在辦公室聽了幾位委員的質詢，大概就是這樣子，請看，什麼是公平貿易？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:16:22.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:16:27.340000+08:00","text":"貿易公平原則：第一、避免不公平的關稅造成障礙，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:16:27.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:16:27.860000+08:00","text":"川普要的嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:16:28.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:16:41.024000+08:00","text":"第二、避免貿易往來過度單向傾斜，所以關稅可能是不公平的原因，但是往來的傾斜，不公平是必然的結果。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:16:41.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:06.558000+08:00","text":"那關稅是不是公平要看兩個面向，一個是平等，我們對特定國家和對其他國家的待遇是不是一樣，第二個是對等，國家之間，關稅的總體待遇是不是相當，最後，貿易的結果是不是公平，還是要看你往來的總量是否相等，所以不管是貿易順差或逆差，都不能單方面差距過大。","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:07.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:08.139000+08:00","text":"幾位是不是同意這個簡單的ABC？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:09.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:11.519000+08:00","text":"都點頭同意嘛，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:11.519000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:13.380000+08:00","text":"從早上到現在，我們談的就是這個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:13.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:18.021000+08:00","text":"我們看一下，川普有一個困難，川普政府說的骯髒15國，他有沒有說有明確定義？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:18.021000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:29.406000+08:00","text":"沒有，大家自己猜的，徵收最高的關稅，講到「關稅」，第二，貿易量很大的前15%，美國政府有講哪15國嗎，部長？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:29.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:32.249000+08:00","text":"有沒有講是哪15國？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:32.249000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:33.249000+08:00","text":"沒有，就是15%。對啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:32.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:33.910000+08:00","text":"從早上到現在都沒有講到臺灣嘛！是。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:35.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:36.513000+08:00","text":"但是臺灣是不是該在裡面呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:36.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:51.845000+08:00","text":"我們看一下，美國的貿易逆差，據央行的統計，我們739億，排第六名，這很多人都講過了，請問一下部長，你管稅的，臺灣有對美國相較其他國家徵收更多的關稅嗎？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:51.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:52.065000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:53.508000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:17:57.231000+08:00","text":"我們因為是WTO的國家，所以我們的關稅其實都是在參與WTO的時候……","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:17:57.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:04.658000+08:00","text":"不是，你聽清楚，我們對美國跟對其他國家，有沒有對其他國家比較好、對美國特別不好？沒有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:05.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:05.859000+08:00","text":"這就是平等。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:06.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:07.260000+08:00","text":"對，我們就是都平等。","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:08.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:10.242000+08:00","text":"我們對其他國家跟對美國是平等的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:11.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:29.996000+08:00","text":"接下來我要請教一下對等的部分，臺灣對美國的關稅相較其他國家而言，除了個別已經簽了FTA的國家之外，美國進口到臺灣的關稅跟其他WTO國家到我們臺灣是相等公平的嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:30.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:34.358000+08:00","text":"我看次長點頭了，江次長點頭，是不是這樣？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:34.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:35.259000+08:00","text":"公平，很好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:37.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:42.023000+08:00","text":"臺美之間的關稅彼此之間差距有沒有特別大？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:42.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:18:43.785000+08:00","text":"我現在講的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:18:43.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:05.450000+08:00","text":"是對等，美國在一些項目……之前有幾位委員說同一個品項他課我多少，我就課他多少，這不全然是如此，因為每個國家有每個國家內部的政策需要，所以有些品項可能他對我課得少，我課他會課得多；有些品項他對我課得多，我對他課得少，但是總體來講，彼此的待遇有沒有相等，部長認為有沒有？","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:09.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:13.146000+08:00","text":"基本上這個關稅，我們剛剛在報告裡面都有分析，因為我們是按……如果用貿易加權……","quality":0.576},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:15.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:17.609000+08:00","text":"直接講答案，你認為相不相等？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:19.370000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:21.632000+08:00","text":"美國跟其他國家，我們對待是相等的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:22.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:27.196000+08:00","text":"我們其實在美國眼中不是很相等，但是不是最嚴重的不相等，是不是？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:27.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:29.157000+08:00","text":"江次長是不是這樣子？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:29.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:30.298000+08:00","text":"你認為美國認為我們跟他的關稅是對等的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:30.298000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:30.298000+08:00","text":"總體來講。","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:34.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:36.988000+08:00","text":"就工業產品來說，其實差距不會很大。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:37.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:41.049000+08:00","text":"不會很大，但我們還是比較占一點便宜，大家點頭了。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:42.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:51.311000+08:00","text":"所以整體來講，關稅應該不會是這個核心，如果相較於其他國家，美國要對付的話，其他國家比我們更應該對付，但是結果是什麼？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:51.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:19:55.172000+08:00","text":"往下看，臺灣整個貿易結果怎樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:19:55.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:20:06.710000+08:00","text":"我們跟其他國家比是平等，臺美關稅彼此之間是對等，但是我們的順差實在是太大了，整個貿易量往臺灣單方面傾斜，怎麼改善？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:20:09.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:20:24.644000+08:00","text":"好，答案有了，剛剛委員都問過了，我就直接揭曉，我們去看一看臺美貿易之間，今天你們的報告有一個很大的問題，你們在細數臺灣跟美國之間貿易往來的品項，那個幫助有限啊！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:20:25.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:20:30.748000+08:00","text":"它能賣我們多少，我們買多少，既成的就在那裡了，我們要問的是美國賣其他國家什麼？","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:20:30.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:20:31.508000+08:00","text":"有這十大類產品。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:20:31.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:20:32.869000+08:00","text":"而我們跟其他國家進口什麼？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:20:37.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:20:43.404000+08:00","text":"只要把這十項交叉比對，你會發現第一優先的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:20:43.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:20:44.205000+08:00","text":"石油燃料嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:20:45.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:20:54.130000+08:00","text":"美國對其他國家出口的前十名中的第一名是石化燃料；臺灣從其他國家進口的前十名中的第三名是石化燃料，答案就出來了啦！","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:20:55.451000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:02.235000+08:00","text":"美國賣那麼多石化燃料出去給每個國家，臺灣也從其他國家進了很多石化燃料，我們跟美國多買嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:03.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:05.743000+08:00","text":"江次長，是不是這個意思？是的。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:06.063000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:07.525000+08:00","text":"好，但是有人會懷疑喔！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:09.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:10.987000+08:00","text":"不是還有個核能設備嗎？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:10.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:23.978000+08:00","text":"美國也出口很多核能設備，臺灣也進口很多核能設備的維護，但是後面去看一看，如果這個項目我們已經match了，可能成長空間就有限，所以我要提醒這一點。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:23.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:24.858000+08:00","text":"還有人提到什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:24.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:27.300000+08:00","text":"提到汽車，汽車是不是也是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:27.320000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:27.440000+08:00","text":"還有精密儀器。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:30.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:21:38.475000+08:00","text":"你把臺美互相對其他國家的貿易往來比一比，就可以看出哪些地方是有潛力的項目。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:21:40.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:01.350000+08:00","text":"所以能源方面，美國出口最多天然氣，它賣天然氣給歐洲最多，再來是亞洲，再來是拉美，而臺灣進口天然氣的順位第一個是澳洲，再來是卡達，再來才是美國；油的話，我們跟沙烏地阿拉伯進口最多，跟美國相稱，再來是科威特；但是原油的部分，美國都沒有賣到臺灣來啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:02.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:08.196000+08:00","text":"所以剛剛有很多委員講了，就是天然氣嘛！","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:08.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:11.418000+08:00","text":"我們本來跟誰買天然氣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:11.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:25.229000+08:00","text":"我們本來買天然氣最多的是澳洲、卡達，美國占10%而已，現在我們儘量的跟阿拉斯加買天然氣，剛剛郭委員也講了，賴委員也講了，問題的解方有很困難嗎？","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:27.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:29.259000+08:00","text":"問題的作法才是困難啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:30.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:37.685000+08:00","text":"今天我們在討論這個問題，我說基本的常識、合理的邏輯所推出來的解方，要靠各位去執行。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:41.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:49.353000+08:00","text":"再來，航空公司採購波音新機，江次長，最近臺灣的國航有跟美國大舉的買客機嗎？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:49.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:49.593000+08:00","text":"只買了這些啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:54.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:22:54.627000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:22:54.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:01.030000+08:00","text":"華航買10架、長榮買這些，長榮是民營的，那華航可不可以多買？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:01.030000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:11.896000+08:00","text":"華航同一時間還買AirBus空巴啊，華航每次要採購就有人在叫，哎呀，華航跟美國交保護費啊！不是！","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:12.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:14.538000+08:00","text":"是要平衡臺美貿易的差距！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:15.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:16.959000+08:00","text":"次長，是不是這樣子？是。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:17.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:18.300000+08:00","text":"要不要跟行政院反映一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:18.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:23.475000+08:00","text":"我們顏副總代表，是不是這樣？是。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:23.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:23.855000+08:00","text":"沒錯嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:24.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:31.977000+08:00","text":"所以政策要清楚，我們對美採購是要平衡臺美貿易的差距，就這麼簡單。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:33.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:23:47.462000+08:00","text":"再來，國防支出，上面那個表沒有寫，因為沒有統計，我們沒有辦法統計美國跟全世界出售了多少的軍購，但是我們臺灣跟美國買了多少軍購很清楚。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:23:49.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:05.397000+08:00","text":"軍購這個供應市場，美國大概是獨家啦，臺灣想要去買，不跟別人買也沒辦法，現在既然川普政府要我們平衡臺美的貿易，我們就增加軍購，江次長，這個不是你管的，你覺得站在經濟部立場，有沒有道理？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:07.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:11.500000+08:00","text":"是的，賴總統也有講到我們會增加國防採購GDP的百分比……","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:11.500000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:14.961000+08:00","text":"GDP要達到3%嘛，是不是？到3%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:14.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:28.043000+08:00","text":"好，接下來，幾位先暫時留著，下一個題目「壽險業投資公建開大門」，陳副主委，這是金管會公布的嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.907},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:28.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:32.406000+08:00","text":"前天公布，昨天報紙很大的篇幅嘛，有什麼效果？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:33.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:35.132000+08:00","text":"效果是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳副主任委員彥良","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:35.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:44.937000+08:00","text":"其實因為我們在一個……不管是在高雄的一個專區，而且我們會把它RBC，如果是公共建設降到1.28%，所以這是一個極大的誘因。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:45.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:55.042000+08:00","text":"簡單講，壽險公司掌握了我們很多的國民超額儲蓄，必須要有投資管道啦，你開放公建，這些錢就不用去買美債，可以在國內投資，是不是這樣？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:55.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:55.042000+08:00","text":"簡單講。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:55.502000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:58.123000+08:00","text":"好，那它可以直接買公建嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:58.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:24:59.664000+08:00","text":"不是嘛，要有什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:24:59.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:25:01.665000+08:00","text":"要有投顧嘛，是不是這樣子？對。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:25:02.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:25:12.584000+08:00","text":"所以我們看到當我們要發展國際型金控的時候，一定要有規模，部長，你來看一下，今天的社論說什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:25:12.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:25:29.013000+08:00","text":"公股投信整併應該積極推動，第一金、兆豐投信、合庫投信還有華南永昌投信，公股的這4家，現在金管會已經把壽險的市場、顧客幫你找好了，可以投資公建了，他等著要買啊！","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:25:29.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:25:31.275000+08:00","text":"但誰要來服務這些壽險的客戶？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:25:32.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:25:34.142000+08:00","text":"就是我們公股的這4家嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:25:35.263000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:25:58.488000+08:00","text":"結果你看一下，總資產額這麼小，不合併就沒有競爭力，所以財政部近期發布報告，讓大家對於公股投信的合併感到悲觀，報告聲稱4家公股金控投信整併的可行性及綜效上沒有共識，這些投信的不可替代性、整併缺乏規模、經濟效益及員工意願不足等。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:25:59.528000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:01.629000+08:00","text":"部長，這是你們財政部的態度嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:03.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:09.331000+08:00","text":"我想有關整併的部分，我們也會持續去了解……研議。對。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:10.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:20.574000+08:00","text":"金管會已經把這樣的市場、顧客都找好了，國內的壽險公司可以來投資國內的公建，不用再去買美債了，那我們國內是不是要有人來幫他們操作？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:21.514000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:22.534000+08:00","text":"操作是不是要有一定的規模？沒錯。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:23.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:35.245000+08:00","text":"都有人說我們的國泰金、富邦，全部加起來才能進入世界有競爭力的排行榜，所以規模很重要。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:35.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:38.929000+08:00","text":"結論來了，所以江次長，請經濟部盤點我國進口品項大宗具移轉向美採購的潛力清單，可以嗎？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:38.929000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:39.929000+08:00","text":"我們現在……","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:38.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:40.130000+08:00","text":"有些數據你們才看得到，我還找不到啊！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:49.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:51.681000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在正在做這件事情。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:51.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:53.562000+08:00","text":"現在正在做，什麼時候可以給本席？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:54.182000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:26:58.544000+08:00","text":"因為這個涉及未來對美，如果有必要做談判，所以……","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:26:59.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:00.685000+08:00","text":"不能公開？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:00.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:04.087000+08:00","text":"這是事實發生的啊，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:04.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:04.667000+08:00","text":"潛力清單嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:04.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:05.327000+08:00","text":"有可能嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:05.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:06.488000+08:00","text":"多買波音客機嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:07.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:07.989000+08:00","text":"多買軍購嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:08.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:09.049000+08:00","text":"多買天然氣嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:09.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:10.810000+08:00","text":"這是我們常識判斷得到的嘛！大項……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:11.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:13.291000+08:00","text":"常識判斷不到的，要告訴我們。大項。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:14.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:15.832000+08:00","text":"大項，給社會形成共識。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:15.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:22.008000+08:00","text":"第二，財政部莊部長，請財政部就公股投信四併一之效益評估和期程提出報告，並對相關的法規試擬一個清單，可以嗎？好的。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:37.457000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:40.202000+08:00","text":"是效益評估和時間表，對不起，我漏了時間表。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:40.202000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:41.244000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:41.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:42.647000+08:00","text":"什麼時候可以給？","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:42.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:44.791000+08:00","text":"是不是給我們3個月的時間？3個月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:45.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:47.516000+08:00","text":"所以我的時間表還要再加上3個月等你給時間表？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:49.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:27:53.754000+08:00","text":"時間表上第一欄就是要3個月給，好，可以，3個月可以，等你。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鍾委員佳濱","start":"2025-03-27T10:27:54.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:28:05.602000+08:00","text":"總之公股投信四併一，一定要有進度，因為金管會相關的法規已經做了準備，財政部不要怯於邁出這第一步，好不好？","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-27T10:28:05.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:28:06.062000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"莊部長翠雲","start":"2025-03-27T10:28:06.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:28:06.082000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-27T10:28:06.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:28:06.162000+08:00","text":"謝謝鍾委員的質詢。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-03-27T10:28:06.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-03-27T10:28:07.483000+08:00","text":"下一位請李彥秀委員質詢。","quality":0.636}]},"gazette":{"lineno":429,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（10時15分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士先生。有請財政部莊部長和央行的朱副總裁、經濟部的江次長以及經貿談判辦公室的顏副總代表。"],["主席：莊部長、朱副總裁、經濟部的江次長、顏副總代表。"],["鍾委員佳濱：另外，後面有一題可能會要請金管會陳副主委。"],["主席：請陳副主委，一起上來好了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：也可以節省時間。部長好。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：副主委、次長、副總裁還有副總代表。今天這個問題看起來很專業，其實邏輯很簡單，有嘗試的概念，就可以來找出解決的方向，但是解決的方法需要各位的專業來處理，我早上在辦公室聽了幾位委員的質詢，大概就是這樣子，請看，什麼是公平貿易？貿易公平原則：第一、避免不公平的關稅造成障礙，對不對？川普要的嘛？第二、避免貿易往來過度單向傾斜，所以關稅可能是不公平的原因，但是往來的傾斜，不公平是必然的結果。那關稅是不是公平要看兩個面向，一個是平等，我們對特定國家和對其他國家的待遇是不是一樣，第二個是對等，國家之間，關稅的總體待遇是不是相當，最後，貿易的結果是不是公平，還是要看你往來的總量是否相等，所以不管是貿易順差或逆差，都不能單方面差距過大。幾位是不是同意這個簡單的ABC？都點頭同意嘛，對不對？從早上到現在，我們談的就是這個。","我們看一下，川普有一個困難，川普政府說的骯髒15國，他有沒有說有明確定義？沒有，大家自己猜的，徵收最高的關稅，講到「關稅」，第二，貿易量很大的前15%，美國政府有講哪15國嗎，部長？有沒有講是哪15國？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有，就是15%。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對啊！從早上到現在都沒有講到臺灣嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：但是臺灣是不是該在裡面呢？我們看一下，美國的貿易逆差，據央行的統計，我們739億，排第六名，這很多人都講過了，請問一下部長，你管稅的，臺灣有對美國相較其他國家徵收更多的關稅嗎？有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：我們因為是WTO的國家，所以我們的關稅其實都是在參與WTO的時候……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不是，你聽清楚，我們對美國跟對其他國家，有沒有對其他國家比較好、對美國特別不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這就是平等。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們就是都平等。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們對其他國家跟對美國是平等的。接下來我要請教一下對等的部分，臺灣對美國的關稅相較其他國家而言，除了個別已經簽了FTA的國家之外，美國進口到臺灣的關稅跟其他WTO國家到我們臺灣是相等公平的嘛？我看次長點頭了，江次長點頭，是不是這樣？公平，很好！臺美之間的關稅彼此之間差距有沒有特別大？我現在講的是什麼？是對等，美國在一些項目……之前有幾位委員說同一個品項他課我多少，我就課他多少，這不全然是如此，因為每個國家有每個國家內部的政策需要，所以有些品項可能他對我課得少，我課他會課得多；有些品項他對我課得多，我對他課得少，但是總體來講，彼此的待遇有沒有相等，部長認為有沒有？"],["莊部長翠雲：基本上這個關稅，我們剛剛在報告裡面都有分析，因為我們是按……如果用貿易加權……"],["鍾委員佳濱：直接講答案，你認為相不相等？"],["莊部長翠雲：美國跟其他國家，我們對待是相等的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：我們其實在美國眼中不是很相等，但是不是最嚴重的不相等，是不是？江次長是不是這樣子？你認為美國認為我們跟他的關稅是對等的嗎？總體來講。"],["江次長文若：就工業產品來說，其實差距不會很大。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不會很大，但我們還是比較占一點便宜，大家點頭了。所以整體來講，關稅應該不會是這個核心，如果相較於其他國家，美國要對付的話，其他國家比我們更應該對付，但是結果是什麼？往下看，臺灣整個貿易結果怎樣？我們跟其他國家比是平等，臺美關稅彼此之間是對等，但是我們的順差實在是太大了，整個貿易量往臺灣單方面傾斜，怎麼改善？好，答案有了，剛剛委員都問過了，我就直接揭曉，我們去看一看臺美貿易之間，今天你們的報告有一個很大的問題，你們在細數臺灣跟美國之間貿易往來的品項，那個幫助有限啊！它能賣我們多少，我們買多少，既成的就在那裡了，我們要問的是美國賣其他國家什麼？有這十大類產品。而我們跟其他國家進口什麼？只要把這十項交叉比對，你會發現第一優先的是什麼？石油燃料嘛！美國對其他國家出口的前十名中的第一名是石化燃料；臺灣從其他國家進口的前十名中的第三名是石化燃料，答案就出來了啦！美國賣那麼多石化燃料出去給每個國家，臺灣也從其他國家進了很多石化燃料，我們跟美國多買嘛！江次長，是不是這個意思？"],["江次長文若：是的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，但是有人會懷疑喔！不是還有個核能設備嗎？美國也出口很多核能設備，臺灣也進口很多核能設備的維護，但是後面去看一看，如果這個項目我們已經match了，可能成長空間就有限，所以我要提醒這一點。還有人提到什麼？提到汽車，汽車是不是也是？還有精密儀器。你把臺美互相對其他國家的貿易往來比一比，就可以看出哪些地方是有潛力的項目。所以能源方面，美國出口最多天然氣，它賣天然氣給歐洲最多，再來是亞洲，再來是拉美，而臺灣進口天然氣的順位第一個是澳洲，再來是卡達，再來才是美國；油的話，我們跟沙烏地阿拉伯進口最多，跟美國相稱，再來是科威特；但是原油的部分，美國都沒有賣到臺灣來啊！所以剛剛有很多委員講了，就是天然氣嘛！我們本來跟誰買天然氣？我們本來買天然氣最多的是澳洲、卡達，美國占10%而已，現在我們儘量的跟阿拉斯加買天然氣，剛剛郭委員也講了，賴委員也講了，問題的解方有很困難嗎？問題的作法才是困難啦！今天我們在討論這個問題，我說基本的常識、合理的邏輯所推出來的解方，要靠各位去執行。","再來，航空公司採購波音新機，江次長，最近臺灣的國航有跟美國大舉的買客機嗎？只買了這些啊！有沒有？華航買10架、長榮買這些，長榮是民營的，那華航可不可以多買？華航同一時間還買AirBus空巴啊，華航每次要採購就有人在叫，哎呀，華航跟美國交保護費啊！不是！是要平衡臺美貿易的差距！次長，是不是這樣子？"],["江次長文若：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要不要跟行政院反映一下？我們顏副總代表，是不是這樣？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒錯嘛！所以政策要清楚，我們對美採購是要平衡臺美貿易的差距，就這麼簡單。再來，國防支出，上面那個表沒有寫，因為沒有統計，我們沒有辦法統計美國跟全世界出售了多少的軍購，但是我們臺灣跟美國買了多少軍購很清楚。軍購這個供應市場，美國大概是獨家啦，臺灣想要去買，不跟別人買也沒辦法，現在既然川普政府要我們平衡臺美的貿易，我們就增加軍購，江次長，這個不是你管的，你覺得站在經濟部立場，有沒有道理？"],["江次長文若：是的，賴總統也有講到我們會增加國防採購GDP的百分比……"],["鍾委員佳濱：GDP要達到3%嘛，是不是？"],["江次長文若：到3%。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，接下來，幾位先暫時留著，下一個題目「壽險業投資公建開大門」，陳副主委，這是金管會公布的嘛，對不對？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：前天公布，昨天報紙很大的篇幅嘛，有什麼效果？效果是什麼？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：其實因為我們在一個……不管是在高雄的一個專區，而且我們會把它RBC，如果是公共建設降到1.28%，所以這是一個極大的誘因。"],["鍾委員佳濱：簡單講，壽險公司掌握了我們很多的國民超額儲蓄，必須要有投資管道啦，你開放公建，這些錢就不用去買美債，可以在國內投資，是不是這樣？簡單講。"],["陳副主任委員彥良：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那它可以直接買公建嗎？不是嘛，要有什麼？要有投顧嘛，是不是這樣子？"],["陳副主任委員彥良：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以我們看到當我們要發展國際型金控的時候，一定要有規模，部長，你來看一下，今天的社論說什麼？公股投信整併應該積極推動，第一金、兆豐投信、合庫投信還有華南永昌投信，公股的這4家，現在金管會已經把壽險的市場、顧客幫你找好了，可以投資公建了，他等著要買啊！但誰要來服務這些壽險的客戶？就是我們公股的這4家嘛！結果你看一下，總資產額這麼小，不合併就沒有競爭力，所以財政部近期發布報告，讓大家對於公股投信的合併感到悲觀，報告聲稱4家公股金控投信整併的可行性及綜效上沒有共識，這些投信的不可替代性、整併缺乏規模、經濟效益及員工意願不足等。部長，這是你們財政部的態度嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想有關整併的部分，我們也會持續去了解……"],["鍾委員佳濱：研議。"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：金管會已經把這樣的市場、顧客都找好了，國內的壽險公司可以來投資國內的公建，不用再去買美債了，那我們國內是不是要有人來幫他們操作？操作是不是要有一定的規模？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒錯。"],["鍾委員佳濱：都有人說我們的國泰金、富邦，全部加起來才能進入世界有競爭力的排行榜，所以規模很重要。結論來了，所以江次長，請經濟部盤點我國進口品項大宗具移轉向美採購的潛力清單，可以嗎？"],["江次長文若：我們現在……"],["鍾委員佳濱：有些數據你們才看得到，我還找不到啊！"],["江次長文若：報告委員，我們現在正在做這件事情。"],["鍾委員佳濱：現在正在做，什麼時候可以給本席？"],["江次長文若：因為這個涉及未來對美，如果有必要做談判，所以……"],["鍾委員佳濱：不能公開？這是事實發生的啊，對不對？潛力清單嘛！有可能嘛！多買波音客機嘛！多買軍購嘛！多買天然氣嘛！這是我們常識判斷得到的嘛！"],["江次長文若：大項……"],["鍾委員佳濱：常識判斷不到的，要告訴我們。"],["江次長文若：大項。"],["鍾委員佳濱：大項，給社會形成共識。第二，財政部莊部長，請財政部就公股投信四併一之效益評估和期程提出報告，並對相關的法規試擬一個清單，可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：好的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是效益評估和時間表，對不起，我漏了時間表。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["鍾委員佳濱：什麼時候可以給？"],["莊部長翠雲：是不是給我們3個月的時間？"],["鍾委員佳濱：3個月？所以我的時間表還要再加上3個月等你給時間表？時間表上第一欄就是要3個月給，好，可以，3個月可以，等你。總之公股投信四併一，一定要有進度，因為金管會相關的法規已經做了準備，財政部不要怯於邁出這第一步，好不好？"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝鍾委員的質詢。","下一位請李彥秀委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":74,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-20-5","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","郭國文","鍾佳濱","李彥秀","林思銘","賴惠員","李坤城","陳玉珍","黃珊珊","王世堅","許宇甄","羅廷瑋","楊瓊瓔","羅明才","葉元之","邱志偉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","鄭正鈐"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1143201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1143201_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請財政部莊部長翠雲、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、國家發展\n委員會劉主任委員鏡清、經濟部郭部長智輝、農業部陳部長駿季就「因應美國川普政府對等關稅\n策略與我國被列入骯髒十五國名單，我國政府財經相關單位因應策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1143201_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}