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主席謝謝 麻煩請陳主委好 有請陳主委好 主委好 何安非常重要前兩天這個世界地球日賴清德總統也說接見環團的時候有講到對未來的新核能技術保持開放的態度環境部長說沒有所謂非核家園非核家園不是行政團隊的神主牌"},{"start":39.575,"end":55.685,"text":"有看到嗎?對的那我們都不知道說那這樣子現在民進黨過去一直在野的時候強調的非核跟現在又可以大轉彎然後臉不紅氣不喘我們也覺得非常的感到非常的精細是核心不過"},{"start":56.758,"end":83.5,"text":"如果說真的沒有所謂的非核家園神主牌的話那態度很重要就不是只是嘴巴講講嘛那我請教上個月底我們有排審核子反應器設施管制條例管制法第六條的修正草案的時候沒有相關的版本不管是我們政院不管是我們政府不管是我們綠營的委員沒有相關版本身為主管機關主委你怎麼看"},{"start":87.403,"end":112.163,"text":"我感覺這個版本已經很多了什麼版本已經很多 他沒有你們的版本主委 你是在開玩笑還是你是認真嚴肅的回答本席的問題嗎因為核安會是核能安全主管機關是核電要不要研議是屬於核子反應器設施管制法主管機關是誰明定這個法的主管機關"},{"start":113.65,"end":133.082,"text":"這是核安會是啊 前身是原能會 現在是核安會啊那我們現在在講是說如果說政府也覺得說沒有所謂的非核家園沒有要死爆神主牌那要討論核電廠能不能研議現在世界各國 美國 日本有多少核電廠研議"},{"start":137.617,"end":164.11,"text":"有關核電研議的事情是屬於核能政策的問題研議的電廠大概100多所以這些研議的電廠是不是都經過安全的評估 專業的評估理性的評估 科學的評估是嘛 不然他們政府不敢放嘛那一樣的道理"},{"start":164.97,"end":182.726,"text":"我們國家裡面河一場 河二場 河三場過去有沒有做過相關研議的評估安全評估報告河一場有將近有做評估河二場也有 河三場也有嘛河二河三沒有 河一場有確定喔 諸位"},{"start":184.52,"end":200.249,"text":"沒有送到核安會來審查有做評估但是沒有送核安會來審查還是沒做評估評估應該是台電內部的事台電內部有評估啊但是做完這個報告之後當然會有送相關主管機關啊沒有送過來確定嗎主委 確定喔我確定因為"},{"start":207.711,"end":230.716,"text":"本席後續還會再追這個議題但是我現在很清楚明白的確定是台電過去都有做核電廠的安全研議評估尤其是核三廠這個是本席很確定的部分再來第二個部分選址也是一個重點對不對核廢料的一個選址那現在我們看到說行政部門"},{"start":231.997,"end":260.06,"text":"有已經有所謂行政院有所謂的一個選址辦公室那也希望能夠趕快來確定選址立法來送政院那其中特別有提到是說現在這個辦公室主任還沒找到但是對外的說法是說還會再找不管是台電不管是和安會的人員一起進入到這個辦公室我請教一下主委到目前這有沒有相關進度還是和安會有沒有接收到說到底這個辦公室要做什麼"},{"start":260.999,"end":288.087,"text":"我目前是負責人員已經找到了那開過會了沒還沒就任吧已經找到了還沒就任是那對外講法是說我們還會有河安會的人員也都一起加入沒有沒有有啊這新聞稿就直接這樣寫不是不能我們準備資料比你們還要充分然後你不能講說新聞稿上面公開資訊上面不能講說沒有諸位"},{"start":293.819,"end":312.47,"text":"這個專案辦公室並沒有河安會的人在裡面主委要不要我拿相關的新聞稿給你因為這是我們剛查我現在只是很理性的想要跟你確認是說現在這個選址辦公室未來要怎麼運作河安會這邊有沒有了解那結果你現在這樣講那到底是誰說謊是政院說謊來大家去看中央社的報導"},{"start":321.487,"end":337.896,"text":"經部核廢處置辦公室落腳板橋選址立院拼年底送政院4月4號中央社的報導其中裡面就提到居時辦公室也會從台電、核安會、學界、研覽、核電專業者參與核廢選址立法推動"},{"start":342.697,"end":349.387,"text":"所以你們是還沒有被通知到報告委員在經濟部徵詢專案辦公室主任的這個階段的時候曾經徵詢過一位退休的"},{"start":358.681,"end":376.383,"text":"核安會的副主委不過這位副主委他並沒有意願擔任那目前其實沒有核安會的人員去參加這個專案辦公室因為我們是安全監督安全監督角色跟這個業務上面會有會有是所以本席也會覺得就起"},{"start":377.958,"end":392.919,"text":"所以這主委這為什麼本席會今天提出來其實本席還準備其他問題也是要問就說這樣子我們會不會有球員兼裁判的狀況何安會如果說要派人因為這個是正式的新聞稿4月4號中央社發出來的新聞報導"},{"start":394.673,"end":413.232,"text":"就講說要延攬相關的人士進入到這個辦公室他講的不是說主任要是和安會的人派他講的是說未來運作要由相關不管台電學界以及和安會要有人員共同參與那這樣子我就想問說那如果說選址出來完之後又再交給和安會審查"},{"start":414.113,"end":430.982,"text":"那核安會是不是又角色多重一方面你是專業的判斷那一方面你又加入這個選舉辦公室那在選舉辦公室裡面你要用什麼樣的身份來給予什麼樣的意見所以核安會並沒有人參與所以那這樣看起來這個新聞是假新聞"},{"start":432.062,"end":453.176,"text":"要不要做個澄清可以啊可以做澄清那是前副主委曾經並不是陳副主委嘛他現在講前副主委前任的副主委前任的副主委但本席現在講的是說報導裡面這也是我們看到的時候就會認為是說何安慧你是站在專業審查的角度"},{"start":453.996,"end":481.529,"text":"你的角色不應該錯亂對 是的如果說新聞是錯的請澄清請要求澄清尤其是中央社也是我們相關的半官方機關如果說連中央社的新聞稿中央社新聞出來都會有錯誤的資訊的話那真的是假消息假新聞滿天飛啊好 我會請中央社更正好 謝謝主委謝謝委員好 謝謝 謝謝洪孟凱委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:00.891000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:50:01.171000+08:00","text":"主席謝謝，麻煩請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:01.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:50:01.311000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:01.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:50:01.471000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:01.471000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-04-24T11:50:02.471000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:01.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:50:04.272000+08:00","text":"核安非常重要，前兩天是世界地球日，賴清德總統接見環團的時候有講到，對未來的新核能技術保持開放的態度；環境部長說，沒有所謂的非核家園，非核家園不是行政團隊的神主牌。是的。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:30.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:50:31.316000+08:00","text":"有看到嘛！對的。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:32.456000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:50:45.964000+08:00","text":"那我們都不知道說這樣子，民進黨過去一直在野的時候強調的非核，現在又可以大轉彎，然後臉不紅、氣不喘，我們也感到不知今夕是何夕。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:46.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:50:54.023000+08:00","text":"不過，如果說真的沒有所謂的非核家園神主牌的話，那態度很重要，就不是只是嘴巴講講嘛。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:50:54.804000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:14.480000+08:00","text":"我要請教，上個月底我們有排審核子反應器設施管制法第六條條文修正草案的時候，沒有相關的版本，不管是我們政院、不管是我們政府、不管是我們綠營的委員，沒有相關版本，身為主管機關，主委，你怎麼看？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:18.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:20.445000+08:00","text":"我感覺版本已經很多了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:21.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:22.026000+08:00","text":"什麼版本已經很多了？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:22.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:30.193000+08:00","text":"沒有你們的版本，主委，你是在開玩笑，還是你是認真、嚴肅的回答本席的問題嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:30.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:37.939000+08:00","text":"是這樣子，因為核安會是核能安全主管機關，核電廠要不要延役是屬於……","quality":0.759},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:38.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:42.003000+08:00","text":"核子反應器設施管制法的主管機關是誰？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:42.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:43.163000+08:00","text":"明定這一個法的主管機關？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:44.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:45.971000+08:00","text":"是核安會。是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:46.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:51:48.172000+08:00","text":"前身是原能會，現在是核安會啊！對。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:51:48.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:04.062000+08:00","text":"那我們現在在講的是，如果政府也覺得沒有所謂的非核家園，沒有要死抱神主牌，那要討論核電廠能不能延役，現在世界各國、美國、日本有多少核電廠延役？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:08.617000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:10.358000+08:00","text":"有關核電廠延役的事情……","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:10.358000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:11.358000+08:00","text":"有多少核電廠延役？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:11.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:23.004000+08:00","text":"是屬於核能政策的問題，延役的電廠大概有一百九十多……","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:24.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:31.068000+08:00","text":"是，所以這些延役的電廠是不是都經過安全的評估、專業的評估、理性的評估、科學的評估？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:31.728000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:33.829000+08:00","text":"是嘛，不然他們的政府不敢放嘛！對。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:34.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:44.377000+08:00","text":"一樣的道理，在我們國家裡面，核一廠、核二廠、核三廠過去有沒有做過相關延役的評估、安全評估報告？","quality":0.78},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:44.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:47.340000+08:00","text":"核一廠有做評估。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:48.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:49.742000+08:00","text":"核二廠也有、核三廠也有嘛。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:50.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:52.324000+08:00","text":"核二、核三沒有，核一廠有。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:52.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:52.925000+08:00","text":"確定喔！主委。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:55.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:52:56.581000+08:00","text":"沒有送到核安會來審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:52:58.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:01.343000+08:00","text":"有做評估，但是沒有送核安會審查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:01.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:02.864000+08:00","text":"還是沒做評估？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:03.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:05.246000+08:00","text":"評估應該是台電內部的事。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:06.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:07.107000+08:00","text":"是啊，台電內部有評估啊！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:07.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:10.248000+08:00","text":"但是做完這個報告之後，當然會送相關主管機關啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:10.429000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:10.789000+08:00","text":"沒有送過來。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:10.789000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:10.969000+08:00","text":"確定嗎？主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:10.969000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:11.969000+08:00","text":"只有核一廠有。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:10.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:11.029000+08:00","text":"主委，確定喔！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:11.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:11.209000+08:00","text":"我確定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:11.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:33.094000+08:00","text":"好，因為本席後續還會再追這個議題，但是我現在很清楚、明白確定的是，台電過去都有做核電廠的安全延役評估，尤其是核三廠，這個是本席很確定的部分。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:34.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:39.075000+08:00","text":"再來，第二個部分，選址也是一個重點，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:39.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:40.035000+08:00","text":"核廢料的選址。是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:40.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:53:52.124000+08:00","text":"現在我們看到行政部門、行政院已經有所謂的選址辦公室，也希望能夠趕快確定選址立法來送政院。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:53:52.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:04.054000+08:00","text":"其中特別有提到，現在這個辦公室主任還沒找到，但是對外的說法是說還會再找，不管是台電、不管是核安會的人員一起進入到這個辦公室。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:04.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:07.076000+08:00","text":"我請教一下主委，到目前這個有沒有相關進度？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:07.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:11.060000+08:00","text":"還是核安會有沒有接收到到底這個辦公室要做什麼？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:11.060000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:12.060000+08:00","text":"開過會了沒？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:11.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:14.720000+08:00","text":"我的理解是負責人已經找到了。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:16.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:17.581000+08:00","text":"開過會了沒？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:17.701000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:19.941000+08:00","text":"還沒就任吧，已經找到但還沒就任。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:21.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:25.343000+08:00","text":"那對外的講法是說，還會有核安會的人員也都一起加入。","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:26.163000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:27.164000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有。有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:27.764000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:29.364000+08:00","text":"新聞稿就直接這樣寫啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:30.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:39.047000+08:00","text":"不能說我們準備的資料比你們還要充分，然後你不能講說新聞稿上面、公開資訊上面……不能講說沒有，主委，我講實在話……","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:44.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:47.060000+08:00","text":"這個專案辦公室並沒有核安會的人在裡面。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:48.001000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:50.762000+08:00","text":"主委，要不要我拿相關的新聞稿給你？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:54:50.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:54:59.268000+08:00","text":"因為這是我們剛剛查的，我現在只是很理性地想要跟你確認，現在這個選址辦公室未來要怎麼運作，核安會這邊有沒有了解？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:55:00.028000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:55:01.289000+08:00","text":"結果你現在這樣講，那到底是誰說謊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:55:01.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:55:01.509000+08:00","text":"是政院說謊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:55:01.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:55:34.859000+08:00","text":"來，大家去看中央社的報導：經濟部核廢處置辦公室落腳板橋，選址立法拚年底送政院──4月4號中央社的報導，其中裡面就提到：「屆時辦公室也會從台電、核安會、學界延攬核電專業者，參與核廢選址立法推動」，所以你們是還沒有被通知到？","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2025-04-24T11:55:35.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:56:03.859000+08:00","text":"報告委員，在經濟部徵詢專案辦公室主任這個階段的時候，曾經徵詢過一位退休的核安會副主委，不過這位副主委並沒有意願擔任，目前其實沒有核安會的人員去參加這個專案辦公室，因為我們是安全監督角色，跟這個業務上面會有衝突。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:56:04.940000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:56:11.862000+08:00","text":"是，主委，為什麼本席會今天提出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:56:11.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:56:18.231000+08:00","text":"其實本席還準備了其他問題要問，就是說這樣子會不會有球員兼裁判的狀況？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:56:18.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:56:39.908000+08:00","text":"核安會如果說要派人，因為這個是正式新聞稿，是4月4號中央社發出來的新聞報導，就說要延攬相關人士進入這個辦公室，它講的不是主任要核安會的人派，它講的是未來運作要由相關，不管台電、學界以及核安會，要有人員共同參與。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:56:40.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:56:47.034000+08:00","text":"這樣子我就想問，如果選址出來之後又再交給核安會審查，核安會是不是又角色多重？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:56:47.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:56:57.020000+08:00","text":"一方面你是專業的判斷，一方面你又加入這個選址辦公室，在選址辦公室裡面你要用什麼樣的身分給予什麼樣的意見？","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:56:57.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:56:59.681000+08:00","text":"所以核安會並沒有人參與。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:56:59.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:01.982000+08:00","text":"好，所以這樣看起來這個新聞是假新聞！","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:03.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:03.782000+08:00","text":"要不要做個澄清？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:05.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:05.343000+08:00","text":"可以啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:05.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:06.424000+08:00","text":"可以做澄清？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:06.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:09.606000+08:00","text":"那是前副主委曾經被徵詢過。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:09.606000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:11.387000+08:00","text":"並不是陳副主委，它現在講……","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:11.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:13.829000+08:00","text":"前副主委，前任的副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:13.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:14.850000+08:00","text":"前任的副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:14.850000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:15.850000+08:00","text":"曾經被徵詢過。","quality":0},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:15.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:27.297000+08:00","text":"本席現在講的是報導裡面，這也是我們看到的時候就會認為核安會是站在專業審查的角度，你的角色不應該錯亂。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:27.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:27.417000+08:00","text":"對，是的，我們不會。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:27.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:32.200000+08:00","text":"如果新聞是錯的，請澄清、請要求澄清。好。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:32.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:45.786000+08:00","text":"尤其是中央社，也是半官方機關，如果說連中央社的新聞稿、中央社新聞出來都會有錯誤資訊的話，真的是假消息、假新聞滿天飛啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:46.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:48.788000+08:00","text":"好，我會請中央社更正。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪委員孟楷","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:49.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:51.409000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:51.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:52.089000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:52.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:52.529000+08:00","text":"謝謝洪孟楷委員。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:53.029000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:54.171857+08:00","text":"主委請回。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-04-24T11:57:54.471857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-04-24T11:57:57.043286+08:00","text":"接下來請張啓楷委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":748,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時50分）主席謝謝，麻煩請陳主委。"],["主席：有請陳主委。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委好。"],["陳主任委員明真：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：核安非常重要，前兩天是世界地球日，賴清德總統接見環團的時候有講到，對未來的新核能技術保持開放的態度；環境部長說，沒有所謂的非核家園，非核家園不是行政團隊的神主牌。"],["陳主任委員明真：是的。"],["洪委員孟楷：有看到嘛！"],["陳主任委員明真：對的。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我們都不知道說這樣子，民進黨過去一直在野的時候強調的非核，現在又可以大轉彎，然後臉不紅、氣不喘，我們也感到不知今夕是何夕。不過，如果說真的沒有所謂的非核家園神主牌的話，那態度很重要，就不是只是嘴巴講講嘛。","我要請教，上個月底我們有排審核子反應器設施管制法第六條條文修正草案的時候，沒有相關的版本，不管是我們政院、不管是我們政府、不管是我們綠營的委員，沒有相關版本，身為主管機關，主委，你怎麼看？"],["陳主任委員明真：我感覺版本已經很多了。"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼版本已經很多了？沒有你們的版本，主委，你是在開玩笑，還是你是認真、嚴肅的回答本席的問題嗎？"],["陳主任委員明真：是這樣子，因為核安會是核能安全主管機關，核電廠要不要延役是屬於……"],["洪委員孟楷：核子反應器設施管制法的主管機關是誰？明定這一個法的主管機關？"],["陳主任委員明真：是核安會。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊！前身是原能會，現在是核安會啊！"],["陳主任委員明真：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我們現在在講的是，如果政府也覺得沒有所謂的非核家園，沒有要死抱神主牌，那要討論核電廠能不能延役，現在世界各國、美國、日本有多少核電廠延役？"],["陳主任委員明真：有關核電廠延役的事情……"],["洪委員孟楷：有多少核電廠延役？"],["陳主任委員明真：是屬於核能政策的問題，延役的電廠大概有一百九十多……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以這些延役的電廠是不是都經過安全的評估、專業的評估、理性的評估、科學的評估？是嘛，不然他們的政府不敢放嘛！"],["陳主任委員明真：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：一樣的道理，在我們國家裡面，核一廠、核二廠、核三廠過去有沒有做過相關延役的評估、安全評估報告？"],["陳主任委員明真：核一廠有做評估。"],["洪委員孟楷：核二廠也有、核三廠也有嘛。"],["陳主任委員明真：核二、核三沒有，核一廠有。"],["洪委員孟楷：確定喔！主委。"],["陳主任委員明真：沒有送到核安會來審查。"],["洪委員孟楷：有做評估，但是沒有送核安會審查？還是沒做評估？"],["陳主任委員明真：評估應該是台電內部的事。"],["洪委員孟楷：是啊，台電內部有評估啊！但是做完這個報告之後，當然會送相關主管機關啊！"],["陳主任委員明真：沒有送過來。"],["洪委員孟楷：確定嗎？主委。"],["陳主任委員明真：只有核一廠有。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，確定喔！"],["陳主任委員明真：我確定。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，因為本席後續還會再追這個議題，但是我現在很清楚、明白確定的是，台電過去都有做核電廠的安全延役評估，尤其是核三廠，這個是本席很確定的部分。","再來，第二個部分，選址也是一個重點，對不對？核廢料的選址。"],["陳主任委員明真：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在我們看到行政部門、行政院已經有所謂的選址辦公室，也希望能夠趕快確定選址立法來送政院。其中特別有提到，現在這個辦公室主任還沒找到，但是對外的說法是說還會再找，不管是台電、不管是核安會的人員一起進入到這個辦公室。我請教一下主委，到目前這個有沒有相關進度？還是核安會有沒有接收到到底這個辦公室要做什麼？開過會了沒？"],["陳主任委員明真：我的理解是負責人已經找到了。"],["洪委員孟楷：開過會了沒？"],["陳主任委員明真：還沒就任吧，已經找到但還沒就任。"],["洪委員孟楷：那對外的講法是說，還會有核安會的人員也都一起加入。"],["陳主任委員明真：沒有、沒有。"],["洪委員孟楷：有啊！新聞稿就直接這樣寫啊！不能說我們準備的資料比你們還要充分，然後你不能講說新聞稿上面、公開資訊上面……不能講說沒有，主委，我講實在話……"],["陳主任委員明真：這個專案辦公室並沒有核安會的人在裡面。"],["洪委員孟楷：主委，要不要我拿相關的新聞稿給你？因為這是我們剛剛查的，我現在只是很理性地想要跟你確認，現在這個選址辦公室未來要怎麼運作，核安會這邊有沒有了解？結果你現在這樣講，那到底是誰說謊？是政院說謊？來，大家去看中央社的報導：經濟部核廢處置辦公室落腳板橋，選址立法拚年底送政院──4月4號中央社的報導，其中裡面就提到：「屆時辦公室也會從台電、核安會、學界延攬核電專業者，參與核廢選址立法推動」，所以你們是還沒有被通知到？"],["陳組長文泉：報告委員，在經濟部徵詢專案辦公室主任這個階段的時候，曾經徵詢過一位退休的核安會副主委，不過這位副主委並沒有意願擔任，目前其實沒有核安會的人員去參加這個專案辦公室，因為我們是安全監督角色，跟這個業務上面會有衝突。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，主委，為什麼本席會今天提出來？其實本席還準備了其他問題要問，就是說這樣子會不會有球員兼裁判的狀況？核安會如果說要派人，因為這個是正式新聞稿，是4月4號中央社發出來的新聞報導，就說要延攬相關人士進入這個辦公室，它講的不是主任要核安會的人派，它講的是未來運作要由相關，不管台電、學界以及核安會，要有人員共同參與。這樣子我就想問，如果選址出來之後又再交給核安會審查，核安會是不是又角色多重？一方面你是專業的判斷，一方面你又加入這個選址辦公室，在選址辦公室裡面你要用什麼樣的身分給予什麼樣的意見？"],["陳主任委員明真：所以核安會並沒有人參與。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，所以這樣看起來這個新聞是假新聞！要不要做個澄清？"],["陳主任委員明真：可以啊！"],["洪委員孟楷：可以做澄清？"],["陳主任委員明真：那是前副主委曾經被徵詢過。"],["洪委員孟楷：並不是陳副主委，它現在講……"],["陳主任委員明真：前副主委，前任的副主委。"],["洪委員孟楷：前任的副主委。"],["陳主任委員明真：曾經被徵詢過。"],["洪委員孟楷：本席現在講的是報導裡面，這也是我們看到的時候就會認為核安會是站在專業審查的角度，你的角色不應該錯亂。"],["陳主任委員明真：對，是的，我們不會。"],["洪委員孟楷：如果新聞是錯的，請澄清、請要求澄清。"],["陳主任委員明真：好。"],["洪委員孟楷：尤其是中央社，也是半官方機關，如果說連中央社的新聞稿、中央社新聞出來都會有錯誤資訊的話，真的是假消息、假新聞滿天飛啊！"],["陳主任委員明真：好，我會請中央社更正。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，謝謝主委。"],["陳主任委員明真：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。主委請回。","接下來請張啓楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":490,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-8","speakers":["林宜瑾","柯志恩","葛如鈞","陳秀寳","劉書彬","郭昱晴","葉元之","羅廷瑋","張雅琳","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","林沛祥","范雲","鍾佳濱","楊瓊瓔","萬美玲","洪孟楷","張啓楷","徐富癸","翁曉玲"],"page_start":441,"meetingDate":["2025-04-24"],"gazette_id":"1144202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144202_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳明真列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144202_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}