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請解釋好 謝謝委員的關心有關於我們連署格式的這個查對的部分引起社會各界的關心那坊間也有很多的這個說法其實這些說法都是錯誤的訊息好 這說法是錯誤的 但事實上有沒有發生我們 我先講我們"},{"start":103.015,"end":131.787,"text":"知道可能會發生這樣子的爭議中選會事先就已經做好非常完全的一個準備希望就是一套標準各地選委會都按照這個標準一體來適用我們做的努力有哪些呢包括我們有這個受理的這個茶隊的須知這個是規定這個是所以我們問題蠻多可能要麻煩你稍微快一點"},{"start":132.907,"end":135.15,"text":"有作業的辦法有這個作業的手冊等等把匯集的包括相關法律的規定以及我們的函式讓所有從事這個茶隊的同仁很容易的"},{"start":149.651,"end":153.595,"text":"SOP都有啦SOP都有那我就只單純問你到底有沒有用尺去量表格或者用正本去套量表格這樣的事情發生這個完全是誤傳或者是有意的散播錯假的訊息所以在花蓮在台中都沒有現場都沒有發生這樣的訊息沒有"},{"start":171.963,"end":185.372,"text":"曾經就是宋建仁跟我們的選務人員對於規格大家看法不一可是我們在新聞上看到5月5號台中選委會是有發生這樣的狀況啊這個新聞是怎麼樣"},{"start":189.895,"end":195,"text":"總選會對地方的選委會狀態有沒有了解我們了解我們有進行了解實際的狀況還必須要等到他們回報上來不過最後就是我們得到的訊息是台中的事情經過溝通之後大家也共同認定後來是不受理的件數是39件"},{"start":214.917,"end":226.366,"text":"這39件裡面因為規格的問題因為規格的問題而不予受理的只有各位是三件或者是四件我們還在確認之中像這樣子的一個爭議其實我們認為是正常的啦"},{"start":230.99,"end":233.011,"text":"爲什麼中選會在聯署書的格式上面要做變化的原因是因爲到底空白幾格中間有沒有置中有沒有空白要不要置中還是往左邊對齊首格"},{"start":249.758,"end":251.919,"text":"這些都是為了在當場的時候你才拿出來的這個格式是確保連署不會提前偷跑嘛講白話文就是這樣的狀況所以這是為了你的行政便宜行政便利的方式來做這件事情"},{"start":266.784,"end":270.927,"text":"可是如果一旦發生現場是用齒距量這種人民完全沒有辦法去預測會有的狀況差0.1 0.2公分這顯然是不合理的狀況嘛對不對天可垂見完全是錯假訊息所以第一這種沒有嘛所以也不會發生嘛那第二要不要用正本去套糧目前你收到的狀況到底是有還是沒有因為你剛剛的答案"},{"start":292.244,"end":299.012,"text":"答案是說我們還在等回報這個問題我們需要台中來跟我們做詳細的解釋在5月5號那今天已經是幾號了已經過了幾小時了那麻煩如果主委能夠像花蓮這件事情一樣能夠這麼明確的回答我相信對各地的選委會是有更統一的標準"},{"start":310.925,"end":314.246,"text":"為什麼呢 因為我們會很需要知道的是如果在現場因為這樣的形式而把這份連署書在現場就剔除了那它到底算不算行政處分現場能不能有任何的救濟方式還是要達到合意才能夠剔除這就是主委回到您剛剛說的狀況了嘛 對不對"},{"start":333.814,"end":343.446,"text":"你剛剛表示你現在告訴我說你還不知道現場到底有沒有用格式套糧但你知道現在被剔除的都是合意的對不對你剛剛的說法是這樣嗎在交涉的過程當中我們不排除他們用任何的方式一起來做"},{"start":348.573,"end":370.279,"text":"沒有關係我現在告訴你的是可以我現在告訴主委是中選會應該要對地方的選委會有一套統一的標準而這個形式絕對不是要嚴苛挑剔到故意刁難連署書的送件對吧這完全合理嘛對不對我可以很簡單的再重複一遍我們關於這個問題的一個處理的辦法"},{"start":373.12,"end":380.964,"text":"第一點當然我們強調必須要按照規定的格式提出這規定的格式包括標題包括欄位的順序包括長寬等等沒有按照規定格式提出來的那我們就不予受理是這個目的是為什麼這個目的就是要防止偷跑啦為了選務對啦這個是第一個是在時間上面防止偷跑嘛對不對不是中選會要刻意的刁難主委"},{"start":400.495,"end":404.66,"text":"第二點第二點我們也一再強調容許所謂的公差不管婦嬰今天在備詢台上全國都聽到了主委的標準就是這樣全國的標準就是如此容許公差而且而且這個是用肉眼去辨識"},{"start":419.798,"end":422.339,"text":"好 用睿眼去辨識不會用詞 也不會用這樣套糧最後一點 最後一點要特別強調的不要再說了 說了就沒人要相信哪有什麼丫頭在那邊扭 吃飯人家嘴不知道怎麼絕對沒有這個事我是覺得說這樣啦"},{"start":435.605,"end":460.736,"text":"那中選會對刑事的要求如果如此的嚴謹的話那對實質的要求就已經明顯知道有所謂一般俗稱的幽靈連署也就是死亡前就連署的比例是如此的高至今相同的比例是如此的高這種實質的狀況中選會因為依照現行的法律沒有辦法做任何的處置"},{"start":461.696,"end":484.191,"text":"那麼我們就不要用形式駭攻中選會應該要能夠明白的要求各地選委會不能夠有不同的標準這主委同意啦我們除了就是如何辨識偽造有一些規範性的規定之外其實我們在實務的做法上我們是要求各地選委會兩個人一組"},{"start":486.152,"end":489.056,"text":"兩個人一起一個是我們專職的選務人員一個就是縣市政府借調的人員大家共同來認定好 主委那我現在再問你另外一個我本來要問三題但是現在我可能借一點時間問一下我的第二題就好了"},{"start":502.754,"end":505.657,"text":"第二題的部分的話我想知道的是中選會在這個查核連署書的狀況為什麼沒有辦法直接把這個數字還有剛剛查核的各種狀況直接公開在網路上公告給全國人民知道"},{"start":518.331,"end":530.156,"text":"你知道我們現在要看到聯署書實質查核剛剛討論的是刑事查核嘛你說全國要一致了我們都同意了花了幾分鐘的時間那我們現在經由中選會去做實質的審查之後的這個資料為什麼中選會不能夠主動公開立即的在第一時間公告給全國人民知道"},{"start":542.381,"end":544.862,"text":"我們查對審核的結果都是經過委員會的審定我當然知道你們都是嚴謹的審查 我說的是審查結果紀錄要經過確認 所以要過一個月確認之後我們就會上網公開了"},{"start":559.266,"end":563.03,"text":"那所有的報章媒體新聞都知道啊我們都是連委員都是透過媒體才知道我們的數字連我這個被罷免人我們也是要透過媒體才知道問中選會中選會給你的說我們等會議記錄會議記錄上網以後也一共只有"},{"start":579.89,"end":597.002,"text":"合格率就是合格幾件不合格的幾件所以裡面細部的資料都沒有可是我們來看新聞的部分新聞的部分你看看重複提議有偽造情勢與門檻差異提議疫前死亡的都可以公佈成這樣我相信全國人民都在看你不要說這個他資料來源中選會"},{"start":600.504,"end":601.625,"text":"中選會還有另外一種可以知道的方式就是立委所知啦我覺得這個狀況應該是"},{"start":615.641,"end":633.882,"text":"中選會其實應該要很負責任的在第一時間就應該要出來如果你們是要透過會議的話那這是現在國家最大的事情你們要加速會議的時間啊加速公告的時間啊我覺得這樣才合理啊委員因為問政的需要像我們所知"},{"start":636.104,"end":657.455,"text":"這個結果只要經過我們的委員會審查確定的結果那我們是應該要提供給委員那這個時候雖然還沒有上網公開但是已經經過審定了我們會配合提供給委員那至於媒體他從什麼地方得到這些訊息跟中選會真的是沒有關係"},{"start":658.015,"end":678.374,"text":"主委我現在就是本於我的選擇跟中選會垂詢並且建議並且要求就像你的第六你的書面你的口頭報告裡面的第六點你現在正在研議的是公職人員罷免案的電子聯署系統整備嘛那你現在在說我們未來這些案子"},{"start":680.376,"end":683.02,"text":"可不可以用電子系統整備這要很長的時間給你時間但我認為以現在狀況全國正在進行的種種罷免案當中當中選會的實質審查出來後應該要加速如果可以從至少一個月變成是一個禮拜"},{"start":698.54,"end":706.465,"text":"這個大家全國也感謝你啊三天更好啊這本來就是應該要加速讓全國人民知道的狀況而且應該是公開上網這是我的第一個要求方法你們去想這是我的要求甚至我還要求我們應該要讓全國人民都可以有一套系統就像大學聯好放榜榜單一樣嘛榜單出來了我就可以去查詢我簽的聯署單到底那個領銜人有沒有幫我交出去"},{"start":725.137,"end":727.698,"text":"有還是沒有 這對我來講很重要啊有沒有交 我這麼認真寫了連署但我應該有權利可以知道我的連署書有沒有被交出去甚至是反過來講我也應該要有權利可以上網去查詢那個連署的名單裡面有沒有我啊"},{"start":741.866,"end":745.309,"text":"我有沒有被冒名啊這樣不是一清二楚根本不用檢調調查嗎這個系統不難啊大學聯考各種學校招生聯合都可以做到我覺得這個反而是比你在研議電子連署更應該提早做到的啦我相信這個不難"},{"start":761.204,"end":775.989,"text":"費用也不高而且應該即刻就可以做主委你的意見呢那這技術上是沒有困難沒有困難啊我剛剛跟委員報告過我查詢我自己而已啊我有沒有我的聯署書有沒有被交上去我有沒有被冒名就這麼簡單我剛剛跟委員報告過的就是說我們的這個會議紀錄確認的程序是到下一次的委員會我們委員會一個月才開一次那就應該要提早召開"},{"start":786.752,"end":811.067,"text":"怎麼樣是不是可以縮短尤其是這種特殊重關切的事情就是國家大事了可以研究縮短這個我們再來努力看看主委我要求啦我要求我具體要求具名要求我認為在這一段時間這是國家的非常時刻過去從來沒有過的我認為中選會的會議要加速召開不可以一個月只開一次啦要優先處理啦好謝謝謝謝委員指教"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:15:42+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:15:43+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:15:42.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:15:42.069000+08:00","text":"我們請李主委。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-07T09:15:42.069000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:15:43.069000+08:00","text":"有請李進勇主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:15:43.069000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:15:44.069000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:15:42.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:15:42.129000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:15:42.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:15:44.429000+08:00","text":"主委，本席現在其實也是被罷免的當事人之一，但今天本席還是會好好認真做好我的工作，而且我不會針對個案性來做發問，我問的是通案性的問題，讓中選會可以確保人民正當的行使選舉罷免權。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:16:12.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:16:13.915000+08:00","text":"所以第一題我要問的是，現在網路上一直看到、坊間都有流傳，甚至是新聞也有報出來這樣的狀況，即各地選委會會用尺來查核二階連署書的名冊格式。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:16:28.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:16:30.743000+08:00","text":"我看到中選會是在Facebook上面，你們自己已經發過兩次的聲明，表示不會有這樣的事情，那是在4月29號的時候中選會發的。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:16:30.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:16:33.244000+08:00","text":"可是我們接下來看到在花蓮也好、在臺中也好，甚至是前天5月5號，確實又再看到這樣的狀況，甚至這次不是用尺了，是用正本去套量連署書。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:16:33.244000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:16:33.605000+08:00","text":"請問到底有沒有這樣的事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:16:58.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:16:59.241000+08:00","text":"中選會的態度是什麼？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:16:59.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:16:59.881000+08:00","text":"請解釋。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:00.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:02.062000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:02.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:18.071000+08:00","text":"有關於連署格式查對的部分，引起社會各界的關心，坊間也有很多的說法，其實這些說法都是錯誤的訊息。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:18.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:21.293000+08:00","text":"好，說法是錯誤的，但事實上有沒有發生？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:22.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:39.661000+08:00","text":"我們知道可能會發生這樣子的爭議，中選會事先就已經做好非常完全的準備，希望就是一套標準，各地選委會都按照這個標準一體適用。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:39.661000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:40.661000+08:00","text":"好，所以是？","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:39.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:42.062000+08:00","text":"我們做的努力有哪些呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:42.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:50.325000+08:00","text":"包括我們有受理查對的須知，這個是規定……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:52.086000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:53.787000+08:00","text":"主委，我的問題滿多的，可能要麻煩您稍微講快一點。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:54.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:55.468000+08:00","text":"有須知、有作業、有辦法……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:55.468000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:56.468000+08:00","text":"不然就是主席要給我多一點時間。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:17:55.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:17:57.130000+08:00","text":"有作業的手冊等等，匯集包括相關的法律規定以及我們的函釋，讓所有從事查對的同仁很容易地運用，當一有問題發生的時候……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:11.651000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:11.932000+08:00","text":"SOP都有啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:12.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:13.914000+08:00","text":"我就只單純問你，到底有沒有用尺去量表格或者用正本去套量表格這樣的事情發生？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:14.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:14.674000+08:00","text":"這個完全是誤傳或者是有意的散播錯假訊息，完全沒有這種情況。","quality":0.704},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:14.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:15.415000+08:00","text":"所以在花蓮、在臺中現場都沒有發生這樣的情況？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:33.963000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:41.048000+08:00","text":"曾經有送件人跟我們的選務人員，對於規格看法不一，但是最後經過……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:41.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:47.292000+08:00","text":"可是我們在新聞上看到5月5號臺中選委會有發生這樣的狀況啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:47.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:47.372000+08:00","text":"這個新聞是怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:51.895000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:52.976000+08:00","text":"中選會對地方的選委會狀態有沒有瞭解？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:52.976000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:53.976000+08:00","text":"對這則新聞的狀態，你們的表示是什麼？","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:53.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:55.058000+08:00","text":"我們有進行瞭解，實際的狀況還必須要等到他們回報上來。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:18:55.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:18:56.980000+08:00","text":"不過，最後我們得到的訊息是臺中的事情經過溝通之後，大家也共同認定，後來不受理的件數是39件。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:16.917000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:27.405000+08:00","text":"這39件裡面因為規格的問題而不予受理的，只有個位數，是3件或者是4件，我們還在確認之中。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:27.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:28.306000+08:00","text":"像這樣的爭議，我們認為是正常的，爭議的結果大家還能夠達成共識。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:32.990000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.171000+08:00","text":"主委，我們分幾個部分來講：第一，為什麼中選會在連署書的格式上面要做變化的原因是：到底空白幾格？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.191000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.351000+08:00","text":"中間有沒有置中？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.531000+08:00","text":"有沒有空白？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.731000+08:00","text":"要不要置中？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:34.991000+08:00","text":"還是往左偏、對齊首格？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:51.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:52.558000+08:00","text":"在當場你才拿出來的這個格式是確保連署不會提前偷跑，講白話文就是這樣的狀況，對不對？","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:52.558000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:53.558000+08:00","text":"我們的確有這樣的顧慮跟設計。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:19:52.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:19:53.899000+08:00","text":"所以這是為了行政便利的方式來做這件事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:08.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:10.806000+08:00","text":"好，如果一旦發生現場用尺去量，這種人民完全沒有辦法去預測會有的狀況，差0.1、0.2公分，這顯然是不合理的狀況嘛，對不對？","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:10.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:11.386000+08:00","text":"天可垂見，這完全是錯假訊息。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:11.386000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:12.386000+08:00","text":"所以完全是錯假訊息。","quality":0.222},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:11.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:11.626000+08:00","text":"第一，這種沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:11.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:11.746000+08:00","text":"所以也不會發生嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:11.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:12.147000+08:00","text":"第二，要不要用正本去套量？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:12.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:12.667000+08:00","text":"目前你收到的狀況到底是有，還是沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:12.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:35.986000+08:00","text":"因為你剛剛的答案是：我們還在等回報。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:35.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:37.428000+08:00","text":"這個問題需要臺中來跟我們做詳細的解釋及說明。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:37.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:37.948000+08:00","text":"這是5月5號，今天已經是幾號了、已經過了幾小時？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:38.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:52.945000+08:00","text":"麻煩如果主委能夠像花蓮這件事情一樣這麼明確地回答，我相信對各地的選委會是有更統一的標準，為什麼呢？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:53.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:54.646000+08:00","text":"因為我們會很需要知道的是，如果在現場因為這樣的形式而把這份連署剔除了，那到底算不算行政處分？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:54.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:55.206000+08:00","text":"現場能不能有任何的救濟方式？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:55.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:55.486000+08:00","text":"還是要達到合意才能夠剔除？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:20:55.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:20:56.246000+08:00","text":"這就回到您剛剛說的狀況了，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:21:15.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:21:23.704000+08:00","text":"你剛剛表示，還不知道現場到底有沒有用格式套量，但你知道現在被剔除的都是合意的，對不對？","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:21:23.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:21:23.824000+08:00","text":"你剛剛的說法是這樣嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:21:23.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:21:25.426000+08:00","text":"在交涉的過程當中，我們不排除他們用任何的方式，以此來做溝通……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:21:30.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:21:33.074000+08:00","text":"好，沒有關係，我現在告訴你的是……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:21:33.074000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:21:34.074000+08:00","text":"其實那是一種溝通方式。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:21:33.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:21:47.658000+08:00","text":"可以，我現在告訴主委，中選會應該要對地方選委會有一套統一的標準，但這個形式絕對不是要嚴苛、挑剔到故意刁難連署書的送件，對吧？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:21:47.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:21:49.238000+08:00","text":"這完全合理，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:21:49.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:01.103000+08:00","text":"我可以很簡單地再重複一遍我們關於這個問題的處理辦法：第一點，當然我們強調必須要按照規定的格式提出，這個規定的格式包括標題、欄位的順序、長寬等等，沒有按照規定格式提出來的，我們就不予受理，目的是為什麼？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:01.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:01.864000+08:00","text":"目的就是要防止偷跑，為了選務的公正。對啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:01.884000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:02.544000+08:00","text":"這是在時間上防止偷跑，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:02.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:02.924000+08:00","text":"不是中選會刻意刁難。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:02.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:02.944000+08:00","text":"好，主委……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:22.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:23.236000+08:00","text":"這是第一點。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:23.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:25.038000+08:00","text":"第二點，我們也一再強調容許所謂的公差，不管複印、不管影印、不管套印……","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:25.058000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:25.619000+08:00","text":"好，今天在備詢台上，全國都聽到了，主委的標準就是這樣、全國的標準就是如此。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:25.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:26.660000+08:00","text":"容許公差，而且是用肉眼去辨識，絕對不會拿尺去量。","quality":0.619},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:41.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:42.118000+08:00","text":"好，用肉眼去辨識，不會用尺，也不會用這樣套量。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:42.458000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:43.799000+08:00","text":"最後一點要特別強調的，不要再說了，說了就沒人要相信，哪有什麼拿尺在那邊量？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:43.799000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:44.799000+08:00","text":"是要笑死人才會這樣……好啦！","quality":0.091},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:44.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:22:44.179000+08:00","text":"絕對沒有這種事。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:22:44.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:23:34.983000+08:00","text":"我是覺得這樣，主委，中選會對形式的要求如果如此嚴謹的話，而實質上已經明顯知道有所謂幽靈連署，也就是死亡前就連署的比例是如此高，字跡相同的比例是如此高，這種實質的狀況，中選會因為依照現行的法律沒有辦法做任何的處置，那麼我們就不要用形式害公，中選會應該要能夠明白要求各地選委會不能夠有不同的標準，這主委同意啦！","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:23:36.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:23:48.973000+08:00","text":"我們除了如何辨識偽造，有一些規範性的規定之外，其實在實務的作法上，我們是要求各地選委會兩個人一組，一個是專職的選務人員，一個就是縣市政府借調的人員，大家共同來認定。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:23:49.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:23:51.036000+08:00","text":"好，主委，那我現在再問你另外一個，我本來要問三題，但現在我可能借一點時間問一下我的第二題就好了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:24:04.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:24:07.637000+08:00","text":"第二題的部分，我想知道的是，中選會在查核連署書的狀況，為什麼沒有辦法把這個數字，還有剛剛查核的各種狀況直接公開在網路上公告給全國人民知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:24:20.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:24:32.136000+08:00","text":"你知道我們現在要看到連署書實質查核，剛剛討論的是形式查核，你說全國要一致，我們都同意了，花了幾分鐘的時間，那我們現在經由中選會去做實質的審查之後的這個資料，為什麼中選會不能夠主動公開，立即在第一時間公告給全國人民知道？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:24:44.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:24:45.321000+08:00","text":"我們查對審核的結果都是經過委員會的審定。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:24:45.321000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:24:46.321000+08:00","text":"當然啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:24:45.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:24:46.102000+08:00","text":"我當然知道你們都是嚴謹的審查，我說的是審查結果。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:24:46.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:24:46.842000+08:00","text":"委員會審定之後，紀錄要經過確認，所以要過1個月，確認之後我們就會上網公開了。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:01.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:04.210000+08:00","text":"所有的報章、媒體、新聞都知道啊，連委員都是透過媒體才知道我們的數字，連我這個被罷免人，我們也是要透過媒體才知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:04.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:26.773000+08:00","text":"問中選會，中選會說我們等會議紀錄，會議紀錄上網以後，也一共只有合格率，就是合格幾件、不合格幾件，所以裡面細部的資料都沒有……媒體……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:27.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:28.755000+08:00","text":"可是我們來看新聞的部分。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:29.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:38.962000+08:00","text":"新聞的部分你看看，重複提議、有偽造情事、與門檻差距、提議前死亡的都公布了，我相信全國人民都在看，你不要說這個……它資料來源是中選會喔！","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:38.962000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:40.142667+08:00","text":"它也可以寫總統府。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:40.142667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:41.323333+08:00","text":"中選會，這很清楚的狀況嘛！好啦……","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:41.323333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:42.504000+08:00","text":"它說中選會不一定是中選會。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:42.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:43.345000+08:00","text":"中選會還有另外一種可以知道的方式，就是立委索資！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:43.345000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:25:44.345000+08:00","text":"我正要講這一點。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:25:43.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:26:12.759000+08:00","text":"面對這樣的狀況，中選會應該要很負責任地在第一時間就站出來，如果你們要透過會議的話，這是現在國家最大的事情，所以你們要加速會議的時間、加速公告的時間，我覺得這樣才合理啊！","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:26:13.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:26:18.104000+08:00","text":"委員因為問政的需要向我們索資，這個結論、結果……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:26:18.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:26:19.104000+08:00","text":"本來就合理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:26:18.904000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:26:25.768000+08:00","text":"只要經過我們委員會審查確定的結果，那我們是應該要提供給委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:26:25.768000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:26:26.768000+08:00","text":"是，當然是這樣。","quality":0},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:26:26.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:26:32.791000+08:00","text":"這個時候雖然還沒有上網公開，但是已經經過審定了，我們會配合提供給委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:26:33.051000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:26:39.455000+08:00","text":"至於媒體從什麼地方得到這些訊息，跟中選會真的是沒有關係。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:26:40.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:26:59.173000+08:00","text":"主委，我現在就是本於我的權責跟中選會垂詢，並且建議、並且要求，就像你的口頭報告裡面的第六點，你現在正在研議公職人員罷免案的電子連署系統整備。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:26:59.774000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:27:03.337000+08:00","text":"你現在說未來這些案子可不可以用電子系統整備？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:27:03.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:27:22.822000+08:00","text":"這要很長的時間，我可以給你時間，但我認為以現在的狀況，全國正在進行的種種罷免案當中，當中選會的實質審查出來以後，應該要加速，至少從1個月變成是1個禮拜，這樣大家、全國也感謝你啊，3天更好啊！","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:27:23.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:27:25.804000+08:00","text":"這本來就是應該要加速讓全國人民知道的狀況，而且應該是公開上網，這是我的第一個要求，方法你們去想，這是我的要求。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:27:25.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:27:28.445000+08:00","text":"甚至我還要求，我們應該要讓全國人民都可以有一套系統，就像大學聯考放榜榜單一樣，榜單出來了我就可以去查詢，我簽的連署單，到底那個領銜人有沒有幫我交出去？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:27:47.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:27:47.377000+08:00","text":"有還是沒有，這對我來講很重要啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:27:47.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:27:48.458000+08:00","text":"我這麼認真寫了連署單，應該有權利可以知道我的連署書有沒有被交出去。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:27:48.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:05.608000+08:00","text":"甚至是反過來講，我也應該要有權利可以上網去查詢連署名單裡面有沒有我、我有沒有被冒名，這樣不是一清二楚，根本不用檢調調查嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:05.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:05.788000+08:00","text":"這個系統不難啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:05.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:07.089000+08:00","text":"大學聯考、各種學校招生、聯考都可以做到，我覺得這個反而比你在研議電子連署更應該提早做到的！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:07.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:26.985000+08:00","text":"我相信這個不難，費用也不高，而且應該即刻就可以做，主委你的意見呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:27.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:29.106000+08:00","text":"這技術上是沒有困難，但是……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:29.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:29.526000+08:00","text":"沒有困難啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:29.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:31.207000+08:00","text":"我剛剛跟委員報告過……","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:31.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:36.748000+08:00","text":"我查詢我自己而已，我的連署書有沒有被交上去、我有沒有被冒名，就這麼簡單。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:36.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:37.689000+08:00","text":"我剛剛跟委員報告過，我們的會議紀錄確認的程序是到下一次的委員會，我們委員會1個月才開一次。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:37.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:37.989000+08:00","text":"那就應該要提早召開啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:48.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:53.695000+08:00","text":"怎麼樣……是不是可以縮短，尤其是這種特殊的民眾所關切的事情……對啊！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:53.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:54.936000+08:00","text":"這是國家大事了。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:55.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:28:58.118000+08:00","text":"可不可以研究縮短，這個我們再來努力看看。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"蘇委員巧慧","start":"2025-05-07T09:28:58.478000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:29:12.967000+08:00","text":"主委，我要求，我具體要求、具名要求，我認為在這一段時間，這是國家非常時刻，過去從來沒有過的，我認為中選會的會議要加速召開，不可以1個月只開1次，要優先處理啦，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李主任委員進勇","start":"2025-05-07T09:29:12.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-07T09:29:13.047000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指教。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-07T09:29:13.547000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:29:15.832714+08:00","text":"好，謝謝蘇巧慧委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-07T09:29:16.132714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-07T09:29:19.847000+08:00","text":"下一位我們請張智倫委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":108,"blocks":[["蘇委員巧慧：（9時15分）謝謝主席。我們請李主委。"],["主席：有請李進勇主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委好。主委，本席現在其實也是被罷免的當事人之一，但今天本席還是會好好認真做好我的工作，而且我不會針對個案性來做發問，我問的是通案性的問題，讓中選會可以確保人民正當的行使選舉罷免權。所以第一題我要問的是，現在網路上一直看到、坊間都有流傳，甚至是新聞也有報出來這樣的狀況，即各地選委會會用尺來查核二階連署書的名冊格式。我看到中選會是在Facebook上面，你們自己已經發過兩次的聲明，表示不會有這樣的事情，那是在4月29號的時候中選會發的。可是我們接下來看到在花蓮也好、在臺中也好，甚至是前天5月5號，確實又再看到這樣的狀況，甚至這次不是用尺了，是用正本去套量連署書。請問到底有沒有這樣的事情？中選會的態度是什麼？請解釋。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員的關心。有關於連署格式查對的部分，引起社會各界的關心，坊間也有很多的說法，其實這些說法都是錯誤的訊息。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，說法是錯誤的，但事實上有沒有發生？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們知道可能會發生這樣子的爭議，中選會事先就已經做好非常完全的準備，希望就是一套標準，各地選委會都按照這個標準一體適用。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，所以是？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們做的努力有哪些呢？包括我們有受理查對的須知，這個是規定……"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，我的問題滿多的，可能要麻煩您稍微講快一點。"],["李主任委員進勇：有須知、有作業、有辦法……"],["蘇委員巧慧：不然就是主席要給我多一點時間。"],["李主任委員進勇：有作業的手冊等等，匯集包括相關的法律規定以及我們的函釋，讓所有從事查對的同仁很容易地運用，當一有問題發生的時候……"],["蘇委員巧慧：SOP都有啦！我就只單純問你，到底有沒有用尺去量表格或者用正本去套量表格這樣的事情發生？"],["李主任委員進勇：這個完全是誤傳或者是有意的散播錯假訊息，完全沒有這種情況。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以在花蓮、在臺中現場都沒有發生這樣的情況？"],["李主任委員進勇：曾經有送件人跟我們的選務人員，對於規格看法不一，但是最後經過……"],["蘇委員巧慧：可是我們在新聞上看到5月5號臺中選委會有發生這樣的狀況啊！這個新聞是怎麼樣？中選會對地方的選委會狀態有沒有瞭解？對這則新聞的狀態，你們的表示是什麼？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們有進行瞭解，實際的狀況還必須要等到他們回報上來。不過，最後我們得到的訊息是臺中的事情經過溝通之後，大家也共同認定，後來不受理的件數是39件。這39件裡面因為規格的問題而不予受理的，只有個位數，是3件或者是4件，我們還在確認之中。像這樣的爭議，我們認為是正常的，爭議的結果大家還能夠達成共識。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，我們分幾個部分來講：第一，為什麼中選會在連署書的格式上面要做變化的原因是：到底空白幾格？中間有沒有置中？有沒有空白？要不要置中？還是往左偏、對齊首格？在當場你才拿出來的這個格式是確保連署不會提前偷跑，講白話文就是這樣的狀況，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們的確有這樣的顧慮跟設計。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以這是為了行政便利的方式來做這件事情。好，如果一旦發生現場用尺去量，這種人民完全沒有辦法去預測會有的狀況，差0.1、0.2公分，這顯然是不合理的狀況嘛，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：天可垂見，這完全是錯假訊息。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所以完全是錯假訊息。第一，這種沒有嘛！所以也不會發生嘛！第二，要不要用正本去套量？目前你收到的狀況到底是有，還是沒有？因為你剛剛的答案是：我們還在等回報。"],["李主任委員進勇：這個問題需要臺中來跟我們做詳細的解釋及說明。"],["蘇委員巧慧：這是5月5號，今天已經是幾號了、已經過了幾小時？麻煩如果主委能夠像花蓮這件事情一樣這麼明確地回答，我相信對各地的選委會是有更統一的標準，為什麼呢？因為我們會很需要知道的是，如果在現場因為這樣的形式而把這份連署剔除了，那到底算不算行政處分？現場能不能有任何的救濟方式？還是要達到合意才能夠剔除？這就回到您剛剛說的狀況了，對不對？你剛剛表示，還不知道現場到底有沒有用格式套量，但你知道現在被剔除的都是合意的，對不對？你剛剛的說法是這樣嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：在交涉的過程當中，我們不排除他們用任何的方式，以此來做溝通……"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，沒有關係，我現在告訴你的是……"],["李主任委員進勇：其實那是一種溝通方式。"],["蘇委員巧慧：可以，我現在告訴主委，中選會應該要對地方選委會有一套統一的標準，但這個形式絕對不是要嚴苛、挑剔到故意刁難連署書的送件，對吧？這完全合理，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：我可以很簡單地再重複一遍我們關於這個問題的處理辦法：第一點，當然我們強調必須要按照規定的格式提出，這個規定的格式包括標題、欄位的順序、長寬等等，沒有按照規定格式提出來的，我們就不予受理，目的是為什麼？目的就是要防止偷跑，為了選務的公正。"],["蘇委員巧慧：對啦！這是在時間上防止偷跑，對不對？"],["李主任委員進勇：不是中選會刻意刁難。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，主委……"],["李主任委員進勇：這是第一點。第二點，我們也一再強調容許所謂的公差，不管複印、不管影印、不管套印……"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，今天在備詢台上，全國都聽到了，主委的標準就是這樣、全國的標準就是如此。"],["李主任委員進勇：容許公差，而且是用肉眼去辨識，絕對不會拿尺去量。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，用肉眼去辨識，不會用尺，也不會用這樣套量。"],["李主任委員進勇：最後一點要特別強調的，不要再說了，說了就沒人要相信，哪有什麼拿尺在那邊量？是要笑死人才會這樣……"],["蘇委員巧慧：好啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：絕對沒有這種事。"],["蘇委員巧慧：我是覺得這樣，主委，中選會對形式的要求如果如此嚴謹的話，而實質上已經明顯知道有所謂幽靈連署，也就是死亡前就連署的比例是如此高，字跡相同的比例是如此高，這種實質的狀況，中選會因為依照現行的法律沒有辦法做任何的處置，那麼我們就不要用形式害公，中選會應該要能夠明白要求各地選委會不能夠有不同的標準，這主委同意啦！"],["李主任委員進勇：我們除了如何辨識偽造，有一些規範性的規定之外，其實在實務的作法上，我們是要求各地選委會兩個人一組，一個是專職的選務人員，一個就是縣市政府借調的人員，大家共同來認定。"],["蘇委員巧慧：好，主委，那我現在再問你另外一個，我本來要問三題，但現在我可能借一點時間問一下我的第二題就好了。第二題的部分，我想知道的是，中選會在查核連署書的狀況，為什麼沒有辦法把這個數字，還有剛剛查核的各種狀況直接公開在網路上公告給全國人民知道？你知道我們現在要看到連署書實質查核，剛剛討論的是形式查核，你說全國要一致，我們都同意了，花了幾分鐘的時間，那我們現在經由中選會去做實質的審查之後的這個資料，為什麼中選會不能夠主動公開，立即在第一時間公告給全國人民知道？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們查對審核的結果都是經過委員會的審定。"],["蘇委員巧慧：當然啊！我當然知道你們都是嚴謹的審查，我說的是審查結果。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員會審定之後，紀錄要經過確認，所以要過1個月，確認之後我們就會上網公開了。"],["蘇委員巧慧：所有的報章、媒體、新聞都知道啊，連委員都是透過媒體才知道我們的數字，連我這個被罷免人，我們也是要透過媒體才知道。問中選會，中選會說我們等會議紀錄，會議紀錄上網以後，也一共只有合格率，就是合格幾件、不合格幾件，所以裡面細部的資料都沒有……"],["李主任委員進勇：媒體……"],["蘇委員巧慧：可是我們來看新聞的部分。新聞的部分你看看，重複提議、有偽造情事、與門檻差距、提議前死亡的都公布了，我相信全國人民都在看，你不要說這個……它資料來源是中選會喔！"],["李主任委員進勇：它也可以寫總統府。"],["蘇委員巧慧：中選會，這很清楚的狀況嘛！好啦……"],["李主任委員進勇：它說中選會不一定是中選會。"],["蘇委員巧慧：中選會還有另外一種可以知道的方式，就是立委索資！"],["李主任委員進勇：我正要講這一點。"],["蘇委員巧慧：面對這樣的狀況，中選會應該要很負責任地在第一時間就站出來，如果你們要透過會議的話，這是現在國家最大的事情，所以你們要加速會議的時間、加速公告的時間，我覺得這樣才合理啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：委員因為問政的需要向我們索資，這個結論、結果……"],["蘇委員巧慧：本來就合理。"],["李主任委員進勇：只要經過我們委員會審查確定的結果，那我們是應該要提供給委員。"],["蘇委員巧慧：是，當然是這樣。"],["李主任委員進勇：這個時候雖然還沒有上網公開，但是已經經過審定了，我們會配合提供給委員。至於媒體從什麼地方得到這些訊息，跟中選會真的是沒有關係。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，我現在就是本於我的權責跟中選會垂詢，並且建議、並且要求，就像你的口頭報告裡面的第六點，你現在正在研議公職人員罷免案的電子連署系統整備。你現在說未來這些案子可不可以用電子系統整備？這要很長的時間，我可以給你時間，但我認為以現在的狀況，全國正在進行的種種罷免案當中，當中選會的實質審查出來以後，應該要加速，至少從1個月變成是1個禮拜，這樣大家、全國也感謝你啊，3天更好啊！這本來就是應該要加速讓全國人民知道的狀況，而且應該是公開上網，這是我的第一個要求，方法你們去想，這是我的要求。","甚至我還要求，我們應該要讓全國人民都可以有一套系統，就像大學聯考放榜榜單一樣，榜單出來了我就可以去查詢，我簽的連署單，到底那個領銜人有沒有幫我交出去？有還是沒有，這對我來講很重要啊！我這麼認真寫了連署單，應該有權利可以知道我的連署書有沒有被交出去。甚至是反過來講，我也應該要有權利可以上網去查詢連署名單裡面有沒有我、我有沒有被冒名，這樣不是一清二楚，根本不用檢調調查嗎？這個系統不難啊！大學聯考、各種學校招生、聯考都可以做到，我覺得這個反而比你在研議電子連署更應該提早做到的！我相信這個不難，費用也不高，而且應該即刻就可以做，主委你的意見呢？"],["李主任委員進勇：這技術上是沒有困難，但是……"],["蘇委員巧慧：沒有困難啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：我剛剛跟委員報告過……"],["蘇委員巧慧：我查詢我自己而已，我的連署書有沒有被交上去、我有沒有被冒名，就這麼簡單。"],["李主任委員進勇：我剛剛跟委員報告過，我們的會議紀錄確認的程序是到下一次的委員會，我們委員會1個月才開一次。"],["蘇委員巧慧：那就應該要提早召開啊！"],["李主任委員進勇：怎麼樣……是不是可以縮短，尤其是這種特殊的民眾所關切的事情……"],["蘇委員巧慧：對啊！這是國家大事了。"],["李主任委員進勇：可不可以研究縮短，這個我們再來努力看看。"],["蘇委員巧慧：主委，我要求，我具體要求、具名要求，我認為在這一段時間，這是國家非常時刻，過去從來沒有過的，我認為中選會的會議要加速召開，不可以1個月只開1次，要優先處理啦，謝謝。"],["李主任委員進勇：謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：好，謝謝蘇巧慧委員。","下一位我們請張智倫委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":194,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-17","speakers":["牛煦庭","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張智倫","麥玉珍","張宏陸","黃捷","許宇甄","李柏毅","賴士葆","吳琪銘","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","沈伯洋","陳冠廷","高金素梅","翁曉玲","丁學忠"],"page_start":113,"meetingDate":["2025-05-07"],"gazette_id":"1144601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1144601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第17次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請中央選舉委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1144601_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}