{"error":false,"id":["161806"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":161806,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/161806","日期":"2025-05-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-15-21","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":21,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-05-22T10:00:11+08:00","結束時間":"2025-05-22T10:09:06+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:55","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1976c9e92d55c2f959d838597d31ae38018167f9c4d828f8b229dfd5e6d71d208bbdb5b55d1651485ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"牛煦庭","委員發言時間":"10:00:11 - 10:09:06","會議時間":"2025-05-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關原住民族委員會及所屬預算解凍案。三、審查「原住民族基本法」修正草案等12案：(一)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二條之二條文草案」案。(二)審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一條條文修正草案」案。(三)審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。(四)審查委員黃仁等30人擬具「原住民族基本法第十九條條文修正草案」案。(五)審查委員黃仁等26人擬具「原住民族基本法第十五條條文修正草案」案。(六)審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案。(七)審查委員黃仁等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」案。(八)審查委員黃仁等22人擬具「原住民族基本法第十條條文修正草案」案。(九)審查委員黃仁等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第六條條文修正草案」案。(十)審查委員高金素梅等20人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十一)審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案。(十二)審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案。【第一案至第三案合併詢答；第三案僅詢答，另定期處理】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":3.2878437500000004,"end":4.82346875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":11.539718750000002,"end":11.657843750000001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":11.657843750000001,"end":12.24846875,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":11.742218750000003,"end":11.792843750000003,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":12.99096875,"end":31.92471875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":32.09346875,"end":34.135343750000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":34.16909375,"end":36.548468750000005,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":34.25346875,"end":34.64159375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":36.548468750000005,"end":37.30784375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":36.93659375,"end":44.564093750000005,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":44.90159375,"end":46.18409375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":44.96909375,"end":45.306593750000005,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":46.43721875,"end":48.20909375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":48.20909375,"end":48.51284375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":48.51284375,"end":50.352218750000006,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":53.67659375,"end":54.11534375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":54.149093750000006,"end":55.752218750000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":57.38909375,"end":57.67596875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":58.047218750000006,"end":65.91096875000001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":66.72096875,"end":67.39596875000001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":67.42971875,"end":68.27346875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":68.84721875000001,"end":82.44846875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":82.88721875,"end":104.48721875000001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":104.90909375000001,"end":119.65784375000001,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":121.12596875000001,"end":139.70534375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":139.89096875,"end":142.59096875,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":142.65846875,"end":143.80596875,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":144.32909375,"end":167.51534375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":148.14284375,"end":149.25659375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":167.70096875000002,"end":175.81784375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":175.36221875,"end":198.90284375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":179.73284375,"end":179.95221875000001,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":199.30784375000002,"end":199.94909375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":200.67471875,"end":201.83909375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":202.12596875000003,"end":203.22284375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":203.52659375000002,"end":205.58534375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":206.26034375,"end":206.74971875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":207.15471875,"end":208.25159375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":208.55534375000002,"end":212.35221875000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":212.47034375,"end":212.70659375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":213.01034375,"end":213.97221875000002,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":213.97221875000002,"end":214.09034375000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":214.09034375000002,"end":214.15784375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":214.15784375,"end":214.24221875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":214.39409375000002,"end":219.35534375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":219.38909375,"end":228.29909375000003,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":227.42159375000003,"end":231.75846875000002,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":231.85971875,"end":239.11596875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":234.37409375000001,"end":234.93096875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":238.77846875,"end":277.75971875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":240.38159375,"end":241.14096875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":277.92846875000004,"end":282.83909375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":282.92346875000004,"end":286.33221875000004,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":286.58534375,"end":294.28034375000004,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":293.79096875,"end":297.99284375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":295.24221875,"end":296.76096875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":297.43596875000003,"end":299.39346875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":298.19534375,"end":299.66346875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":299.66346875,"end":301.78971875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":301.87409375000004,"end":302.75159375000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":302.86971875,"end":318.73221875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":313.18034375,"end":313.21409375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":313.21409375,"end":313.36596875000004,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":319.08659375,"end":320.55471875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":321.28034375000004,"end":322.57971875000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":330.32534375,"end":331.94534375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":332.06346875,"end":335.03346875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":335.38784375,"end":345.98534375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":348.11159375,"end":350.44034375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"瑪拉歐斯董事長","start":351.30096875000004,"end":363.07971875000004,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":362.42159375,"end":367.92284375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"瑪拉歐斯董事長","start":367.02846875,"end":367.07909375,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","speaker_name":"瑪拉歐斯董事長","start":367.11284375,"end":374.43659375000004,"speaker_score":0.899},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":368.61471875,"end":369.52596875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":372.24284375,"end":377.05221875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":374.43659375000004,"end":374.67284375,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":377.05221875,"end":377.42346875000004,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":377.42346875000004,"end":377.45721875000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":377.45721875000004,"end":377.47409375,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":378.30096875000004,"end":378.87471875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":378.87471875,"end":384.47721875,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":384.98346875000004,"end":385.42221875,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":385.60784375000003,"end":389.26971875000004,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":389.59034375000005,"end":391.53096875,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":391.88534375,"end":393.92721875,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":394.24784375,"end":397.38659375000003,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":396.57659375000003,"end":402.92159375,"speaker_score":0.953},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":403.20846875,"end":409.85721875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":410.00909375000003,"end":413.67096875000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":414.04221875,"end":427.12034375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":420.84284375000004,"end":420.89346875,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":421.07909375,"end":421.14659375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":421.14659375,"end":421.16346875000005,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":427.71096875,"end":428.36909375000005,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":429.06096875000003,"end":451.84221875000003,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":449.14221875000004,"end":449.56409375000004,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":452.14596875,"end":456.58409375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":454.20471875000004,"end":454.55909375000005,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":456.58409375,"end":456.73596875000004,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":456.73596875000004,"end":469.88159375000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":470.47221875,"end":478.75784375,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":474.64034375000006,"end":474.94409375000004,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":478.75784375,"end":479.04471875,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":479.04471875,"end":483.31409375000004,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"牛委員煦庭","start":482.21721875000003,"end":534.47909375,"speaker_score":0.956},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":484.63034375,"end":485.11971875,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"顏委員寬恒","start":510.76971875000004,"end":510.97221875,"speaker_score":0.742},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"羅處長赫踛","start":510.97221875,"end":511.09034375000005,"speaker_score":0.864}],"whisperx":[{"start":3.535,"end":4.49,"text":"謝主席曾主委有請"},{"start":11.727,"end":36.501,"text":"委員好主委剛剛那個我們有委員在討論那個碎石祭儀的部分是這你回答的不清不楚會讓大家誤會啊嗯這個碎石祭儀不管是一天或三天對不對是不是第一個要有原住民身份才能放對第二個是自己或配偶擇一參加嘛是其實這樣不就好了嗎是就很清楚嘛塔杜亞他美會委員講阿美族又布農族對不對然後各自參加可以可以或者是兩邊參加同一個也都可以嘛"},{"start":37.261,"end":65.395,"text":"但是如果譬如說我老婆是阿美族的但我不能用碎石記憶嘛因為我沒有原名身份對不對你們其實也這個其實在你們網站上都查得到啦加強宣導好不好這第一個提醒對啊 講話清楚要宣導嘛對我今天就要講就是要順著這個話題往下講就是談有關於這個碎石記憶放假相關的一些配套措施來"},{"start":67.629,"end":81.617,"text":"這個我先問一下把一個修法過程中的一個狀況把它問得清楚就是說我們在3月31號我們在進行這個紀念日及節日條例實施條例在審查的時候這當初來代表原民會的我們副主委中副主委就講說"},{"start":83.298,"end":103.851,"text":"沒有辦法考慮到社會的整體環境跟實際執行的情形如果族人要多放三天假會面臨不容忽視的挑戰比如說勞動市場處於不利的狀況就業機會的衝擊和族群關係的緊張他說因為原住民在勞動業比較多替代性很高所以要尊重實際需求找平衡點"},{"start":104.992,"end":119.344,"text":"那我們當然就問啊說我們希望讓原住民的勞工大家都知道勞工辛苦嘛就希望他工時降低一點不要血汗結果你們作為原住民主管機關自己在講說不要放太多比較好你是這個意思嗎這是你們官方的態度嗎"},{"start":121.155,"end":140.557,"text":"不是因為放三天假當然也要謝謝大院的決定就是說這個可以讓我們在平地的特別是回到比較遠的這個部落裡面這個三天讓他有一個很好的這個時間可以完全的參加碎死記憶啦這個是好的啦那至於就是說"},{"start":141.432,"end":160.099,"text":"這個就是考量到說因為我們所有的價平地放什麼價我們原住民就放什麼價也可以放嘛對那現在是我們原住民又多了這個三天的價那但是就也有一些朋友就說因為怕我們的這個公司行號會對原住民的這個朋友印象會不好啦"},{"start":160.459,"end":185.89,"text":"說又假三天又放這樣會讓我們的原住民印象不好但是就是說我們樂觀其成啦就是說對原住民的祭儀放假大家要尊重就是說希望他們能夠在這個時間能夠完完整整的回去參加原住民的祭儀你要代表原住民的文化價值當然要幫他捍衛這個事嘛不只是工時的降低回去參加碎石祭儀這些祭儀才有人參加才有保留和傳承的意義嘛"},{"start":186.65,"end":212.192,"text":"所以這你當然要堅持嘛 這我是覺得你都想太多了為什麼我講想太多了 因為稅時機往下延伸我們要它能夠落地 還有兩塊部分要討論一個叫紅蘿蔔 一個叫棒子 我就先講棒子 來這個 主委 或者是大家都可以回答齁這個原民萬一在職場 被雇主欺負沒有辦法不讓他放這個假的時候 雇主付什麼代價你知不知道 來"},{"start":214.452,"end":228.056,"text":"那我們全國大概有10區的那個就業服務辦公室我們會有75個原住民的就業服務員會協助我們的勞工如果在這個相關有遇到一些相關被霸凌或是一些相關的一個職場就是要請這次要請稅時計然後如果老闆不讓請會發生什麼事"},{"start":232.59,"end":248.582,"text":"呃當然可以有那個申訴的一個制度申訴是跟誰申訴呃呃一個地方的那個勞呃應該是跟勞動勞動體系嘛對不對是是因為如果勞基法79條有明確規定如果違反第37條也就是應休假日未給予休假者出台幣2萬元以上100元以下是罰還嘛"},{"start":250.123,"end":277.598,"text":"所以它其實是有政策工具可以做處理那政策工具處理這我們當然是希望大家遵守法令對不對你剛剛有講大家都要找勞動局或是就業服務系統那請問你原民系統有沒有特別針對稅值記憶我剛剛為什麼講說這個東西的宣導要很清楚不能只有宣導嘛你還要有很清楚的申訴專線嘛我們要幫原住民的族人講話啊對不對那你們這邊有沒有相關的一些安排讓大家可以更清楚的知道規則然後知道可以這個權益可以被確保"},{"start":278.218,"end":301.154,"text":"我們有10區的一個救福辦公室75個救護員都可以來做一個協助那另外當然如果說還有更好的我們也有法律輔助的一些相關的如果是從經過申訴之後有地方的一些勞動的一些單位我們也都會就近來去做一個轉介跟你剛講說你的10個那個救護員是原民會系統下面還是是的是原民會系統75個都原住民的一個救護員"},{"start":302.114,"end":322.505,"text":"這個部分你要一樣布達給這幾個服務站然後要讓所有我們基層的原住民的弟兄姊妹知道所以有所謂的申訴管道跟諮詢的專線跟申訴的管道好不好這不要只丟給勞動局因為雖然是降低工時但文化傳承也很重要這第一個提醒那我們兩位基金會的董事長兩個基金會的董事長不好意思啊"},{"start":330.373,"end":345.988,"text":"我要花一點時間問啦就是我們原住民碎石記憶放假你們有沒有帶頭做起啊這請兩位基金會的這個董事長文化基金會跟語言研究基金會你們會裡面同仁大部分是原住民朋友嘛對不對他們修這個碎石記憶架的人數有多少佔的比例是多少你們有統審過嗎"},{"start":351.428,"end":377.257,"text":"報告委員我們都鼓勵員工休假而且我們希望在碎石技的過程他可以學習文化所以我們的比例非常高都讓我們同仁你有數字嗎多少人多少人休7乘5不錯有做功課因為我們做電視作業廣播作業比較你也比較清楚有這一套嘛對不對好不好所以你要協助7乘5當然要再高一點嘛來另外"},{"start":378.442,"end":402.678,"text":"委員好 在研議會的部分上在過去還沒有制定 我們已經開始在推動所以在 除此我們可以通過他主任的參與然後去參與寫那個報告回來的時候要做一些的分享以上那比例啊 他剛剛講七成五有修 你們這邊呢基本上我們這是 只要我們的族群的那個制定的時間我們都會讓他們回去"},{"start":403.254,"end":426.176,"text":"沒關係 你會後補也可以啦就是說你們到底多少員工原住民比例然後過去修碎紙記憶的比例是多少所以我為什麼要問這件事 好 兩位請坐我們台視請主委就為什麼要去談這件事情的原因是因為剛剛講完棒子就是法規的規範你要紅蘿蔔嘛 就是說獎勵跟示範嘛我丟一個 我簡單 因為時間到了齁我丟一個簡單的例子 我們的客委會對不對 就曾經在做這個"},{"start":427.799,"end":451.001,"text":"叫做你們原民會有114年促進原住民就業獎勵計畫嘛對不對有雇傭獎助嘛等等這些東西你當然應該要維持但你要課委會曾經做過多元文化的企業社會責任有課於友善企業獎也就是說他如果讓職場變課於友善對不對他會給予獎助給予補助給予鼓勵對不對你原住民這邊也是嘛原住民花更多的心力在討論"},{"start":452.282,"end":469.347,"text":"增加參與率嘛就業參與率嘛讓原民朋友的就業不會變成問題嘛那同樣的你們有沒有針對願意大量雇用原住民或者是說讓原住民有一個友善職場環境好的 這樣的一些企業你們有沒有做過統整有沒有做過鼓勵有沒有做過宣導請你回答"},{"start":470.515,"end":487.294,"text":"像這樣就是說對我們族人比較友善的我們都有做這個公開的獎勵那超額獎勵超額比如說他禁用他超額禁用我們也有給也會補助嘛對那是聘用的部分嘛那比如說以碎石祭這件事情來講我剛剛為什麼問兩個基金會那是你們的這個"},{"start":490.697,"end":510.505,"text":"帶頭示範嘛 比如說原文會有七成五 對不對你們也要去調查一下 到最後是稅時計上路之後到底大家休假的比例是什麼到底實務上他是被壓制的還是有被鼓勵的哪一些企業願意主動的配合法令讓原住民朋友降低工時維持文化傳承 你就要幫他拍拍手嘛"},{"start":510.945,"end":533.895,"text":"你就要引惡扬善嘛 不是引惡扬善 這不能引惡罰惡扬善嘛 對不對你要鼓勵好的對的 然後讓這件事情有紅蘿蔔有棒子讓這個碎石技藝增加 看得到也要吃得到啦這是我今天本席在質詢的時候要特別提醒原住民族委員會謝謝相關的一些計畫 詳細的配套措施跟我剛剛問的一些資料 請你會有詳時提供 可以嗎好 謝謝好 謝謝 辛苦了 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:14.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:15.490000+08:00","text":"（10時）謝謝主席，曾主委有請。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:22.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:22.947000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:24.048000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:30.151000+08:00","text":"主委，剛剛委員在討論歲時祭儀的部分，你回答地不清不楚，會讓大家誤會。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:31.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:35.614000+08:00","text":"歲時祭儀假不管是1天或3天，第一，是不是要原住民身分才能放？對。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:35.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:39.336000+08:00","text":"第二，是自己或配偶擇一參加，其實這樣不就好了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:39.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:40.057000+08:00","text":"就很清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:41.037000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:47.381000+08:00","text":"剛剛美惠委員講老公、老婆分屬阿美族、布農族，各自參加都可以，或兩邊參加同一個也都可以。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:47.381000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:48.381000+08:00","text":"對，擇一。","quality":0},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:48.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:00:56.525000+08:00","text":"但是如果譬如我老婆是阿美族，我不能用歲時祭儀請假，因我沒有原民身分，就這樣子，對不對？對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:00:57.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:01:00.587000+08:00","text":"這其實在你們網站上都查得到，加強宣導，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:01:00.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:01:01.187000+08:00","text":"這是第一個提醒。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員美惠","start":"2025-05-22T10:01:01.187000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-22T10:01:09.431000+08:00","text":"剛剛召委也這樣說，要說給老闆聽，說清楚一點。","quality":0.105},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:01:09.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:01:16.375000+08:00","text":"對，我順著這個話題往下講，談有關歲時祭儀放假相關的配套措施。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:01:18.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:01:22.992000+08:00","text":"我先問一下修法過程的狀況，把它問清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:01:23.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:01:54.851000+08:00","text":"我們3月31日進行紀念日及節日實施條例審查時，當初代表原民會的鍾副主委說沒辦法考慮到社會整體環境跟實際執行的情形，如果族人要多放3天假，會面臨不容忽視的挑戰，比如勞動市場處於不利狀況、就業機會衝擊和族群關係緊張，因為原住民在勞動業比較多，替代性很高，所以要尊重實際需求，找平衡點。","quality":0.984},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:01:56.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:02:08.802000+08:00","text":"我們當然就問，我們都希望原住民勞工……大家都知道勞工勞動辛苦，希望工時降低一點，不要血汗，結果你們作為原住民主管機關自己說不要放太多比較好，你是這個意思嗎？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:02:08.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:02:10.344000+08:00","text":"這是你們官方的態度嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2025-05-22T10:02:12.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:02:30.396000+08:00","text":"不是，因為放3天假當然也要謝謝大院的決定，特別是讓我們在平地的族人可以回到比較遠的部落裡面，這3天讓他有很好的時間，可以完全地參加歲時祭儀，這是好的啦！","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2025-05-22T10:02:31.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:03:06.705000+08:00","text":"至於考量到因為我們所有的假、平地或什麼假我們原住民也放，現在我們原住民又多了這3天假，也有一些朋友怕公司行號會對我們原住民朋友印象不好，說又多3天、又放，這樣對我們原住民印象不好，但是我們樂觀其成，對於原住民的祭儀放假大家要尊重，希望他們能夠在這個時間完完整整地回去參加原住民祭儀。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:03:06.705000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:03:18.691000+08:00","text":"你要代表原住民的文化價值，當然要幫他們捍衛這個事情，不只是工時降低，也要讓他們回去參加歲時祭儀，這些祭儀才有人參加，才有保留跟傳承的意義，你當然要堅持嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:03:18.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:03:20.593000+08:00","text":"我覺得你想太多了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:03:21.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:03:28.339000+08:00","text":"為什麼我講想太多了，因為歲時祭儀往下延伸，我們要讓它能夠落地，還有兩部分要討論，一個叫紅蘿蔔、一個叫棒子。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:03:28.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:03:29.340000+08:00","text":"我就先講棒子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:03:31.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:03:43.172000+08:00","text":"主委或大家都可以回答，原民萬一在職場被雇主欺負，沒辦法、不讓他放這個假時，雇主要負什麼代價，你知不知道？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"羅赫踛處長","start":"2025-05-22T10:03:45.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:03:57.416000+08:00","text":"我們全國大概有10區的就業服務辦公室，有75個原住民就業服務員會協助勞工遇到被霸凌或一些相關的職場糾紛……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:03:58.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:03:59.036000+08:00","text":"要請歲時祭儀的假，如果老闆不讓請假，會發生什麼事？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"羅赫踛處長","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:03.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:05.131000+08:00","text":"當然可以有申訴的制度。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:05.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:08.153000+08:00","text":"申訴，是跟誰申訴？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅赫踛處長","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:08.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:09.914000+08:00","text":"地方的勞……","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:09.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:11.296000+08:00","text":"應該是跟勞動體系嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:11.436000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:11.916000+08:00","text":"對不對？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:12.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:22.984000+08:00","text":"因為勞動基準法第七十九條有明確規定，如果違反第三十七條，也就是應休假日未給予休假者，處新臺幣二萬元以上一百萬元以下罰鍰，所以其實有政策工具可以做處理。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:23.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:32.149000+08:00","text":"既然可以透過政策工具處理，我們當然希望大家遵守法令，你說要大家找勞動局或就業服務系統，請問你，原民系統有無針對歲時祭儀？","quality":0.764},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:33.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:41.494000+08:00","text":"我剛剛說這個政策宣導要很清楚，不能只有宣導，還要有很清楚的申訴專線，我們要幫原住民的族人講話啊！","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:42.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:42.895000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:43.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:48.578000+08:00","text":"你們這邊有沒有相關的一些安排，讓大家可以更清楚地知道規則，知道權益可以被確保？","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"羅赫踛處長","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:49.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:04:53.621000+08:00","text":"我們有10區的就輔辦公室、75個就業服務員都可以做協助。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"羅赫踛處長","start":"2025-05-22T10:04:54.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:04.889000+08:00","text":"另外，當然如果說還有更好的，我們還有相關的法律扶助，經過申訴之後，由地方的勞動單位處理，我們也會就近來做轉介跟協助。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:05.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:08.611000+08:00","text":"你剛講說你有10個就業服務站，是原民會系統下面的，還是……","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"羅赫踛處長","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:08.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:12.154000+08:00","text":"是的，這是原民會系統，75個都是原住民的就業服務員。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:13.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:24.540000+08:00","text":"這部分一樣，要布達給這幾個服務站，讓所有基層原住民弟兄姐妹知道有所謂的諮詢專線跟申訴管道，好不好？好。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:24.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:29.583000+08:00","text":"不要只丟給勞動局，雖然是降低工時，但文化傳承也很重要，這是第一個提醒。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:32.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:45.837000+08:00","text":"再請教兩個基金會的董事長，不好意思，我要花一點時間問，我們原住民歲時祭儀放假，你們有無帶頭做起？","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:46.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:53.745000+08:00","text":"請兩位基金會的董事長，文化基金會跟語言基金會，你們會裡面的同仁大部分是原住民朋友，對不對？","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:53.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:56.368000+08:00","text":"他們休歲時祭儀假的人數有多少？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:56.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:56.788000+08:00","text":"占的比例是多少？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:05:56.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:05:56.988000+08:00","text":"你們有統整過嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"瑪拉歐斯董事長","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:02.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:13.252000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們都鼓勵員工休假，而且我們希望在歲時祭儀的過程可以學習文化，所以我們的比例非常高，都有讓同仁參加。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:13.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:14.972000+08:00","text":"你們有數字嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:14.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:15.392000+08:00","text":"有多少人？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:15.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:16.033000+08:00","text":"多少人休？","quality":1},{"speaker":"瑪拉歐斯董事長","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:16.033000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:18.374000+08:00","text":"七成五。","quality":0},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:18.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:19.634000+08:00","text":"不錯，有做功課，要讚美一下。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"瑪拉歐斯董事長","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:19.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:23.315000+08:00","text":"因為我們做電視作業、廣播作業比較……","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:23.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:25.656000+08:00","text":"你們也比較清楚有這一套嘛，對不對？是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:25.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:27.757000+08:00","text":"所以你們也要協助，七成五，要讓它再高一點嘛！","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:28.137000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:28.237000+08:00","text":"另外一位。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:29.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:29.662000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:30.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:44.732000+08:00","text":"原語會在過去還沒有制定時就開始推動，同時可以透過族人的參與，然後去參與寫報告，回來做分享，以上。","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:46.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:46.293000+08:00","text":"比例啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:46.553000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:47.814000+08:00","text":"他剛說七成五有休，你們這邊呢？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"馬耀．谷木董事長","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:47.894000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:53.658000+08:00","text":"基本上，只要是我們族群制定的時間，我們都會讓他回去。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:54.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:57.017000+08:00","text":"沒關係，你們會後補也可以，你們到底多少員工？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:57.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:06:57.857000+08:00","text":"原住民比例？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:06:58.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:07:00.540000+08:00","text":"過去休歲時祭儀的比例是多少？好。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:07:00.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-22T10:07:01.540000+08:00","text":"兩位請坐，我還是請主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:07:01.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:07:11.610000+08:00","text":"我為什麼要問這件事、為什麼要去談這個事情的原因，是因為剛剛講完棒子是法規規範，而紅蘿蔔則是獎勵跟示範。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:07:12.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:07:28.128000+08:00","text":"我時間到了，我丟一個簡單的例子，你們原民會有114年度促進原住民族就業獎勵計畫、有僱用獎助等等，這些東西當然要維持。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:07:29.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:07:37.997000+08:00","text":"客委會曾經做過多元文化企業社會責任、有客語友善企業獎，也就是說，如果讓職場變客語友善，要給予獎助、補助、鼓勵。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:07:39.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:07:47.283000+08:00","text":"原住民這邊也是，原住民花更多心力在討論增加就業參與率，讓原民朋友的就業不要變成問題。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:07:48.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:07:59.167000+08:00","text":"同樣地，你們有沒有針對願意大量僱用原住民或是讓原住民有一個友善職場環境的企業做過統整、做過鼓勵？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:07:59.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:00.167000+08:00","text":"有沒有做過宣導？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:00.167000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:00.327000+08:00","text":"請你回答。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:01.515000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:08.843000+08:00","text":"像這樣對我們族人比較友善的，我們都有做公開的獎勵。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅赫踛處長","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:09.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:10.505000+08:00","text":"超額獎勵。","quality":1},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:11.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:13.248000+08:00","text":"譬如他超額進用，我們也有給……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:13.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:14.550000+08:00","text":"也會補助嘛！對。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:14.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:18.094000+08:00","text":"那是聘用的部分，譬如以歲時祭儀這件事情來講，我剛剛為什麼問兩個基金會？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:18.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:30.661000+08:00","text":"那是你們的帶頭示範，譬如原文會有七成五，你們也要去調查一下，到最後歲時祭儀上路之後，到底大家休假的比例是什麼？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:31.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:33.422000+08:00","text":"實務上是被壓制的，還是被鼓勵的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:33.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:08:57.812000+08:00","text":"哪些企業願意主動配合法令，讓原住民朋友降低工時，維持文化傳承，你就要幫他拍拍手，你就要罰惡揚善，要鼓勵好的、對的，讓這件事情有紅蘿蔔、有棒子，讓歲時祭儀假增加要能看得到，也要吃得到，這是今天本席質詢時要特別提醒原住民族委員會的。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:08:57.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:09:04.034000+08:00","text":"相關的計畫、詳細的配套措施，跟我剛問的資料請你會後詳實提供，可以嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"曾主任委員智勇","start":"2025-05-22T10:09:04.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:09:04.214000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"牛委員煦庭","start":"2025-05-22T10:09:04.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-22T10:09:04.875000+08:00","text":"謝謝，辛苦了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-22T10:09:05.375000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-22T10:09:07.375000+08:00","text":"謝謝牛煦庭召委。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-22T10:09:07.675000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-22T10:09:11.389286+08:00","text":"下一位我們請張宏陸召委，謝謝。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":741,"blocks":[["牛委員煦庭：（10時）謝謝主席，曾主委有請。"],["曾主任委員智勇：委員好。"],["牛委員煦庭：主委，剛剛委員在討論歲時祭儀的部分，你回答地不清不楚，會讓大家誤會。歲時祭儀假不管是1天或3天，第一，是不是要原住民身分才能放？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：第二，是自己或配偶擇一參加，其實這樣不就好了嗎？就很清楚。剛剛美惠委員講老公、老婆分屬阿美族、布農族，各自參加都可以，或兩邊參加同一個也都可以。"],["曾主任委員智勇：對，擇一。"],["牛委員煦庭：但是如果譬如我老婆是阿美族，我不能用歲時祭儀請假，因我沒有原民身分，就這樣子，對不對？"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：這其實在你們網站上都查得到，加強宣導，好不好？這是第一個提醒。"],["王委員美惠：剛剛召委也這樣說，要說給老闆聽，說清楚一點。"],["牛委員煦庭：對，我順著這個話題往下講，談有關歲時祭儀放假相關的配套措施。我先問一下修法過程的狀況，把它問清楚。我們3月31日進行紀念日及節日實施條例審查時，當初代表原民會的鍾副主委說沒辦法考慮到社會整體環境跟實際執行的情形，如果族人要多放3天假，會面臨不容忽視的挑戰，比如勞動市場處於不利狀況、就業機會衝擊和族群關係緊張，因為原住民在勞動業比較多，替代性很高，所以要尊重實際需求，找平衡點。我們當然就問，我們都希望原住民勞工……大家都知道勞工勞動辛苦，希望工時降低一點，不要血汗，結果你們作為原住民主管機關自己說不要放太多比較好，你是這個意思嗎？這是你們官方的態度嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：不是，因為放3天假當然也要謝謝大院的決定，特別是讓我們在平地的族人可以回到比較遠的部落裡面，這3天讓他有很好的時間，可以完全地參加歲時祭儀，這是好的啦！至於考量到因為我們所有的假、平地或什麼假我們原住民也放，現在我們原住民又多了這3天假，也有一些朋友怕公司行號會對我們原住民朋友印象不好，說又多3天、又放，這樣對我們原住民印象不好，但是我們樂觀其成，對於原住民的祭儀放假大家要尊重，希望他們能夠在這個時間完完整整地回去參加原住民祭儀。"],["牛委員煦庭：你要代表原住民的文化價值，當然要幫他們捍衛這個事情，不只是工時降低，也要讓他們回去參加歲時祭儀，這些祭儀才有人參加，才有保留跟傳承的意義，你當然要堅持嘛！我覺得你想太多了。為什麼我講想太多了，因為歲時祭儀往下延伸，我們要讓它能夠落地，還有兩部分要討論，一個叫紅蘿蔔、一個叫棒子。","我就先講棒子。主委或大家都可以回答，原民萬一在職場被雇主欺負，沒辦法、不讓他放這個假時，雇主要負什麼代價，你知不知道？"],["羅赫踛處長：我們全國大概有10區的就業服務辦公室，有75個原住民就業服務員會協助勞工遇到被霸凌或一些相關的職場糾紛……"],["牛委員煦庭：要請歲時祭儀的假，如果老闆不讓請假，會發生什麼事？"],["羅赫踛處長：當然可以有申訴的制度。"],["牛委員煦庭：申訴，是跟誰申訴？"],["羅赫踛處長：地方的勞……"],["牛委員煦庭：應該是跟勞動體系嘛！對不對？"],["羅赫踛處長：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：因為勞動基準法第七十九條有明確規定，如果違反第三十七條，也就是應休假日未給予休假者，處新臺幣二萬元以上一百萬元以下罰鍰，所以其實有政策工具可以做處理。既然可以透過政策工具處理，我們當然希望大家遵守法令，你說要大家找勞動局或就業服務系統，請問你，原民系統有無針對歲時祭儀？我剛剛說這個政策宣導要很清楚，不能只有宣導，還要有很清楚的申訴專線，我們要幫原住民的族人講話啊！對不對？你們這邊有沒有相關的一些安排，讓大家可以更清楚地知道規則，知道權益可以被確保？"],["羅赫踛處長：我們有10區的就輔辦公室、75個就業服務員都可以做協助。另外，當然如果說還有更好的，我們還有相關的法律扶助，經過申訴之後，由地方的勞動單位處理，我們也會就近來做轉介跟協助。"],["牛委員煦庭：你剛講說你有10個就業服務站，是原民會系統下面的，還是……"],["羅赫踛處長：是的，這是原民會系統，75個都是原住民的就業服務員。"],["牛委員煦庭：這部分一樣，要布達給這幾個服務站，讓所有基層原住民弟兄姐妹知道有所謂的諮詢專線跟申訴管道，好不好？"],["羅赫踛處長：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：不要只丟給勞動局，雖然是降低工時，但文化傳承也很重要，這是第一個提醒。","再請教兩個基金會的董事長，不好意思，我要花一點時間問，我們原住民歲時祭儀放假，你們有無帶頭做起？請兩位基金會的董事長，文化基金會跟語言基金會，你們會裡面的同仁大部分是原住民朋友，對不對？他們休歲時祭儀假的人數有多少？占的比例是多少？你們有統整過嗎？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：報告委員，我們都鼓勵員工休假，而且我們希望在歲時祭儀的過程可以學習文化，所以我們的比例非常高，都有讓同仁參加。"],["牛委員煦庭：你們有數字嗎？有多少人？多少人休？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：七成五。"],["牛委員煦庭：不錯，有做功課，要讚美一下。"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：因為我們做電視作業、廣播作業比較……"],["牛委員煦庭：你們也比較清楚有這一套嘛，對不對？"],["瑪拉歐斯董事長：是。"],["牛委員煦庭：所以你們也要協助，七成五，要讓它再高一點嘛！另外一位。"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：委員好。原語會在過去還沒有制定時就開始推動，同時可以透過族人的參與，然後去參與寫報告，回來做分享，以上。"],["牛委員煦庭：比例啊？他剛說七成五有休，你們這邊呢？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：基本上，只要是我們族群制定的時間，我們都會讓他回去。"],["牛委員煦庭：沒關係，你們會後補也可以，你們到底多少員工？原住民比例？過去休歲時祭儀的比例是多少？"],["馬耀．谷木董事長：好。"],["牛委員煦庭：兩位請坐，我還是請主委。我為什麼要問這件事、為什麼要去談這個事情的原因，是因為剛剛講完棒子是法規規範，而紅蘿蔔則是獎勵跟示範。我時間到了，我丟一個簡單的例子，你們原民會有114年度促進原住民族就業獎勵計畫、有僱用獎助等等，這些東西當然要維持。客委會曾經做過多元文化企業社會責任、有客語友善企業獎，也就是說，如果讓職場變客語友善，要給予獎助、補助、鼓勵。原住民這邊也是，原住民花更多心力在討論增加就業參與率，讓原民朋友的就業不要變成問題。同樣地，你們有沒有針對願意大量僱用原住民或是讓原住民有一個友善職場環境的企業做過統整、做過鼓勵？有沒有做過宣導？請你回答。"],["曾主任委員智勇：像這樣對我們族人比較友善的，我們都有做公開的獎勵。"],["羅赫踛處長：超額獎勵。"],["曾主任委員智勇：譬如他超額進用，我們也有給……"],["牛委員煦庭：也會補助嘛！"],["曾主任委員智勇：對。"],["牛委員煦庭：那是聘用的部分，譬如以歲時祭儀這件事情來講，我剛剛為什麼問兩個基金會？那是你們的帶頭示範，譬如原文會有七成五，你們也要去調查一下，到最後歲時祭儀上路之後，到底大家休假的比例是什麼？實務上是被壓制的，還是被鼓勵的？哪些企業願意主動配合法令，讓原住民朋友降低工時，維持文化傳承，你就要幫他拍拍手，你就要罰惡揚善，要鼓勵好的、對的，讓這件事情有紅蘿蔔、有棒子，讓歲時祭儀假增加要能看得到，也要吃得到，這是今天本席質詢時要特別提醒原住民族委員會的。相關的計畫、詳細的配套措施，跟我剛問的資料請你會後詳實提供，可以嗎？"],["曾主任委員智勇：好，謝謝。"],["牛委員煦庭：謝謝，辛苦了。"],["主席：謝謝牛煦庭召委。","下一位我們請張宏陸召委，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":120,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-21","speakers":["牛煦庭","盧縣一","張智倫","王美惠","麥玉珍","張宏陸","黃捷","蘇巧慧","李柏毅","高金素梅","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","郭國文","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳琪銘","陳瑩","丁學忠","林宜瑾"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-05-22"],"gazette_id":"1145302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145302_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長與財團法\n人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、處理114年度中央政\n府總預算案有關原住民族委員會及所屬預算解凍案；三、審查「原住民族基本法」修正草案等12\n案：(一)審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等16人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二條之二條\n文草案」案、(二)審查委員伍麗華 Saidhai Tahovecahe 等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第二十一\n條條文修正草案」案、(三)審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」\n案、(四)審查委員黃仁等30人擬具「原住民族基本法第十九條條文修正草案」案、(五)審查委員\n黃仁等26人擬具「原住民族基本法第十五條條文修正草案」案、(六)審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw\n等18人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第六條之一條文草案」案、(七)審查委員黃仁等20人擬具「原\n住民族基本法增訂第二十八條之一條文草案」案、(八)審查委員黃仁等22人擬具「原住民族基本\n法第十條條文修正草案」案、(九)審查委員黃仁等21人擬具「原住民族基本法第六條條文修正草\n案」案、(十)審查委員高金素梅等20人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案、 (十\n一)審查委員鄭天財 Sra Kacaw 等17人擬具「原住民族基本法第十八條條文修正草案」案、(十\n二)審查委員盧縣一等18人擬具「原住民族基本法部分條文修正草案」案【第三案僅詢答，另定\n期處理】","agenda_id":"1145302_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}