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第一個問題請教你就是說我們福島五縣市的食品包括農產品包括水產品都已經解禁 是去年解禁那他們農漁產品特別是福島五縣市進口到台灣目前的狀況如何我們有沒有還有相關的管制"},{"start":41.096,"end":55.863,"text":"現在是等於說符合我們的相關規定都可以但實際的數量我現在沒有 手邊沒有資訊我會後再提供給委員輔導五縣市的部分對 已經解禁了就應該沒有任何的縣市讓他們輔導五縣市代表說安全無與沒有問題"},{"start":57.123,"end":75.549,"text":"那過去中國是這個日本漁產品最大的出口國是那台灣在這個所謂五島五線式這個食品管制之前日本這個漁產品這個出口到台灣的狀況怎麼樣我真的是不是可以請那個副助長日本"},{"start":77.199,"end":101.053,"text":"沒有 包 包 包委員這邊沒有把數字寄出沒關係 會後再提供給我那當然我們的魚產品也有日本需要這個比較喜歡的品項比如說 我說的石斑魚他們都接受 接受度蠻高那我們可以這個雙向來做更多的這個漁業 農業的合作我最近去拜訪日本國會跟幾個日本國會議員討論這個"},{"start":103.855,"end":122.356,"text":"我去主要是針對台灣的CPTPP要請日本多加支持因為今年澳洲當了日主席國這是一個非常最重要關鍵的時刻那這個日本扮演非常重要的角色日本全力支持不然其他的國家"},{"start":123.527,"end":150.032,"text":"大概也不敢太多的發言對我們會有幫助啦對如果他全力支持有全力支持跟這個意識性支持完全不一樣那當然他們是全力支持但是他們還是有一些抱怨就是說當初無線式這個食品管制台灣跟日本那麼友好但是我們卻對他們這個無線式食品管制我說那是因為公投"},{"start":151.132,"end":173.27,"text":"因為有公投所以必須要有這個限制那我們也希望說基於相信科學相信科學所以我這部分先事後了解說從去年檢驗之後服務到我現在這個農漁產品輸入台灣目前的狀況怎麼樣我們會來統計然後再提供給委員有沒有可能加強採購呢是有沒有可能加強採購我想我們現在"},{"start":177.092,"end":204.623,"text":"只要不影響到我們國內的農業生產就這樣石斑就好石斑其實有太多的日本通路商開始在洽群希望說能夠增加這個採購然後今年七月中旬大阪的這些食品展我想我們農業部也會組團再去針對重要的農產品做一個行銷雙邊是互惠的如果我們也跟他們多一點進口買一些然後他們也幫我們買一些他們對我們這個石斑他們也可以更多接受度"},{"start":205.703,"end":224.833,"text":"好今天討論這個主題很重要那三保一金當然是對農民最最重要的照顧那我覺得照顧還是不夠那如果按照這個郭國文委員的版本就是從1倍到1.5倍整體預算評估大概增加"},{"start":229.921,"end":242.285,"text":"15.5億你是用9萬人口還是用20萬人口因為你現在覆蓋率是49%嘛對不對你的覆蓋率49%那你這個他自己提撥是1%到10%對不對那你這個15.5億是怎麼計算出來的我們15.5億是依現在的人數去儲穀因為"},{"start":251.947,"end":275.597,"text":"當你提高的時候是已經在提腳的你現在的出鍋是用49%對不對大概9萬多人口嘛那你如果符合資格應該是20萬左右嘛對22萬左右那你增加這個政府的這個提撥當然會增加誘因嘛所以人數一定會增加嘛我覺得是這樣15.5億啊甚至你到20億"},{"start":277.863,"end":305.402,"text":"30億是對農民的照顧那你我覺得沒有必要再去跟其他的職業族群去做比較你用這個勞保跟這個農保我們農民領取老黃金貼加農退儲金的金額跟這個勞工領取勞保老年給付跟勞工退休金的金額我覺得比較基礎不一樣你這個農民領取老黃金貼加農退儲金大概多少人"},{"start":308.164,"end":330.74,"text":"農民 農保是現在現在農保是85.3萬人但是65歲以下的是31.7萬人你有資格到最後領取可以領取大概實際上他農保就完全合格的22.3萬人不是 你最後呢可以領到農退儲金的最多就20萬22.3萬人 對所以並不是所有農民都可以領到這個這個每個月3萬8這種金額對不對是"},{"start":336.812,"end":355.494,"text":"是少數大概不到四分之一實際從容的部分那勞工大部分都會領到三萬三左右所以你不能用這個比較的基礎說你如果提高到這個1.5倍所以這個倍數一定要提高至於說底倍1倍1.2"},{"start":359.418,"end":370.389,"text":"1.5 1.7 兩倍我們都可以去討論那我覺得以你1.5倍作為基礎來看這個金額是增加不多那對農民的這個覆蓋率或者他的意願會增加"},{"start":371.969,"end":393.39,"text":"我跟委員報告齁 我要先說明一下就是我們並沒有反對這樣的委員的提案那我們會做這樣的分析就是說我們要去向行政院申請經費的時候這個分析會有誤導啦並不是所有農民都可以同時領到勞農基金或農退儲金嘛大概只佔四分之一左右但是大部分勞工是可以領取他勞退基金跟勞農給付嘛我說的沒有錯吧"},{"start":395.852,"end":410.431,"text":"你說你這樣會有點誤導說如果增加到1.5倍那可能跟勞工的差距會變得更大我還是強調一下我們做這樣的分析就是說我們要先找到一些差異性未來當做"},{"start":412.393,"end":433.17,"text":"跟行政院在做爭取的時候的一個論述所以因為行政院考量的一定是我剛才的論述是可以提供你去跟行政院爭取而且這金額才15.5億金額是不多以重大建設來講你也承認說不多再多的照顧都是應該的因為農民是相對弱勢他們老年之後"},{"start":434.615,"end":451.186,"text":"這生活的這個保障很重要對 影響衛生保障當然越多越好你說你覆蓋力還不到五成 對不對你1.5倍 基本上增加你所謂的15.5億但一定會提高覆蓋率嘛是好 不然你要40 到 比方說到23萬滿額的話 全部都有覆蓋的話"},{"start":456.349,"end":484.76,"text":"真的能夠兩筆都可以提都可以領到也大概只有三分之一左右我跟委員報告我們除了委員的版本以外我們會去做好好的規劃然後再加上我剛才提到的就是說怎麼樣減輕農民負擔在同樣的進而之下農民提繳的可以少繳一點政府再多繳一點保障一樣然後另外一個更重要就是還沒有加入的我們想辦法有困難的地方我們怎麼樣讓他加入這整個方案我們會做一個包裹來跟行政院報告"},{"start":485.95,"end":507.604,"text":"另外我第三個問題請教老榮今天的調整老榮今天調整的依據跟頻率當然相對於其他職業別比方說軍工教育月退跟勞保年金等等我們目前是四年調整一次對不對根據CPI 前一年的CPI"},{"start":510.706,"end":536.205,"text":"但是為什麼不能比照比較優惠的這個軍工教育月退你CPI增長率達正負5%的時候調整或至少每四年檢討一次這個問題是不是可以往這個方向去思考呢我跟委員報告我們農業部的版本已經提到農業行政院去了包括CPI現在每四年調整一次的時候如果這四年中你的CPI超過一定比例的時候也可以啟動調整這是我們的"},{"start":537.706,"end":560.414,"text":"那另外排富的部分我們也將所謂的所得的部分從50萬也適度的提高他的財產從500萬有沒有也適度的提高還有自住所得房屋的部分也提高這個部分我想我們委員都有非常多的多的一些建議太過消極太過保守這個照顧也不夠你看從101年到114年這15年間從7000塊到8110塊對不對是"},{"start":565.936,"end":580.625,"text":"但你這個整體最低生活費是暴增了幾倍 暴增了1.5倍你從台灣省來看 台灣省五都之外從1萬塊到1萬5 增加1.5倍那你從7000塊搭8000塊是增加幾倍 很有限"},{"start":586.776,"end":605.138,"text":"所以你要應該以這樣做比較在你的方案上面能夠更好提出更好的方式來照顧老農老農今天能夠有更多的對老農有更多的照顧這個八千塊我覺得這十年才剩下一千多塊"},{"start":607.5,"end":630.645,"text":"這個對農民是沒有辦法交代我想委內意見我們也會再把它做一些納入我們現在已經針對CPI的調整時間包括排富的部分我們已經做了一些建議了那至於說他的那個調整跟他的生活所得的比例也要盡量要一致化這個部分我想我們也可以把它納入另外住宿代表處有沒有農業組的編制我們有 已經成立了農業組"},{"start":631.605,"end":659.61,"text":"去跟國會做一些說明他們很在乎啊我只要說提到CPTPP說我們支持但是你們之前這個福島五縣市時評他們覺得有點難過他們有點難過畢竟已經過去了你要把整個原委說明清楚我想我們把這個部分重新整理以後再去跟日本的國會透過農業組去做一個說明對 去做一個說明好 謝謝委員的提醒"},{"start":662.394,"end":663.517,"text":"现在请郭国文"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:16:22.151000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:16:23.531000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請農業部陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T11:16:23.531000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T11:16:24.531000+08:00","text":"陳部長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:16:23.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:16:23.852000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:16:34.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:16:35.004000+08:00","text":"部長辛苦了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:16:36.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:16:51.175000+08:00","text":"部長，請教你第一個問題，就是福島五縣市包括農產品、水產品等食品都已經解禁，是去年解禁嘛？是。","quality":0.775},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:16:51.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:16:54.837000+08:00","text":"目前福島五縣市的農漁產品進口到臺灣的狀況如何？","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:16:56.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:16:57.759000+08:00","text":"我們是不是還有相關的管制？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:16:59.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:07.820000+08:00","text":"現在等於是符合我們的相關規定都可以，但是實際的數量我現在手邊沒有資訊，我們會後再將福島五縣市的部分提供給委員。","quality":0.788},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:08.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:13.863000+08:00","text":"對，已經解禁了，就應該沒有任何的限制，代表說福島五縣市的產品是安全無虞、沒有問題的。","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:13.863000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:15.523000+08:00","text":"對，是安全的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:15.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:21.545000+08:00","text":"過去中國是日本漁產品最大的出口國嘛？是。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:22.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:31.188000+08:00","text":"在臺灣做所謂的福島五縣市食品管制之前，日本漁產品出口到臺灣的狀況怎麼樣？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:31.188000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:33.389000+08:00","text":"我是不是可以請副署長說明？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳副署長建佑","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:37.260000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:38.701000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這邊沒有把數字帶出來……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:38.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:40.062000+08:00","text":"沒關係，會後再提供給我。是。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:41.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:17:55.051000+08:00","text":"當然我們的漁產品也有日本比較喜歡的品項，譬如說石斑魚，他們的接受度是蠻高的，那我們可以雙向來做更多漁業、農業的合作。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:17:56.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:18:23.087000+08:00","text":"我最近去拜訪了日本國會，有跟幾個日本國會議員討論，我這次去主要是針對臺灣加入CPTPP要請日本多加支持，因為今年澳洲當了主席國，這是一個最重要的關鍵時刻，日本扮演非常重要的角色，如果日本全力支持，那其他國家大概也不敢有太多的發言。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:18:23.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:18:24.308000+08:00","text":"對我們會有幫助。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:18:24.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:18:46.712000+08:00","text":"對，如果日本全力支持，因為全力支持跟意思性支持完全不一樣，那當然他們是全力支持，但是他們還是有一些抱怨，就是當初對福島五縣市食品的管制，因為臺灣跟日本那麼友好，但是我們卻對他們五縣市的食品管制。","quality":0.798},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:18:46.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:18:54.276000+08:00","text":"我說那是因為公投，就是因為有公投，所以必須要做限制，我們也是基於相信科學。","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:18:56.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:05.806000+08:00","text":"我對這個部分希望在事後了解，從去年解禁之後，目前福島五縣市的農漁產品輸入臺灣的狀況怎麼樣？","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:05.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:07.907000+08:00","text":"我們會來統計，然後再提供給委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:07.907000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:09.148000+08:00","text":"有沒有可能加強採購？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:11.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:11.250000+08:00","text":"我想我們現在包括……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:15.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:17.993000+08:00","text":"只要不影響到我們國內的農漁業生產……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:18.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:33.879000+08:00","text":"對，這幾年來其實像石斑魚有太多的日本通路商開始在洽詢，希望能夠增加採購，然後在今年7月中旬的大阪食品展，我想我們農業部也會組團針對重要的農產品做一些行銷。","quality":0.831},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:33.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:34.540000+08:00","text":"部長，雙邊是互惠的。是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:36.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:37.981000+08:00","text":"如果我們也跟他們進口多一點……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:38.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:39.942000+08:00","text":"跟他們買一些，然後他們也幫我們買一些。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:40.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:19:42.603000+08:00","text":"對，對我們的石斑魚他們也可以有更高的接受度。是。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:19:43.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:07.921000+08:00","text":"好，今天討論的這個主題很重要，三保一金當然是對農民最重要的照顧，我覺得現在的照顧還是不夠，如果按照郭國文委員的版本，就是從1倍到1.5倍，整體預算評估大概增加……15.5億。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:07.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:15.203000+08:00","text":"你說15.5億，你是用9萬人口還是用20萬人口，因為你現在的覆蓋率是49%，對不對？對。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:15.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:18.724000+08:00","text":"你的覆蓋率是49%，那他自己提撥是1%到10%，對不對？是。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:18.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:19.364000+08:00","text":"那你這個15.5億是怎麼計算出來的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:19.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:32.148000+08:00","text":"我們15.5億是依現在的人數去粗估，因為當你提高的時候，是已經在提繳的……","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:32.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:35.950000+08:00","text":"你現在的粗估是用49%對不對？對。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:35.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:36.690000+08:00","text":"大概九萬多人口。是。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:39.131000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:41.092000+08:00","text":"如果是符合資格的，應該是20萬左右嘛？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:41.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:42.052000+08:00","text":"22萬左右。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:43.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:20:49.195000+08:00","text":"那你增加政府的提撥，當然就會增加誘因，所以人數一定會增加嘛！","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:20:50.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:04.329000+08:00","text":"我覺得是這樣，你們是估15.5億，甚至到20億、30億，這是對農民的照顧，我覺得沒有必要再去跟其他的職業族群去做比較。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:04.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:20.460000+08:00","text":"你用勞保跟農保，農民領取老農津貼加農退儲金的金額，跟勞工領取勞保老年給付跟勞工退休金的金額，我覺得比較基礎不一樣。是。","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:21.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:23.382000+08:00","text":"農民領取老農津貼加農退儲金的大概有多少人？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:28.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:33.169000+08:00","text":"現在農保是85.3萬人，但是65歲以下的是31.7萬人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:34.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:35.251000+08:00","text":"那有資格到最後領取農退……","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:37.132000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:40.314000+08:00","text":"實際上，農保完全合格的是22.3萬人。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:42.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:45.858000+08:00","text":"最後可以領到農退儲金的最多就是……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:45.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:45.978000+08:00","text":"22.3萬人。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:46.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:48.720000+08:00","text":"所以並不是所有農民都可以領到每個月3萬8,000元的這種金額，對不對？是。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:54.812000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:57.435000+08:00","text":"只是少數，大概不到四分之一，對不對？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:58.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:21:59.137000+08:00","text":"是實際從農的部分。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:21:59.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:22:02.801000+08:00","text":"那勞工大部分都可以領到3萬3,000元左右，對不對？對。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:22:03.763000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:22:19.060000+08:00","text":"所以你不能用這個當作比較的基礎，這個倍數一定要提高，至於說要幾倍，是1.2倍、1.5倍、1.7倍或2倍，我們都可以去討論。對。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:22:19.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:22:28.369000+08:00","text":"那我覺得以1.5倍作為基礎來看，這個金額是增加不多，但是對農民的覆蓋率或者他的意願會增加啊！","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:22:30.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:22:39.599000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我要先說明一下，就是我們並沒有反對委員這樣的提案，那我們會做這樣的分析，就是我們要去向行政院申請經費的時候……","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:22:39.699000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:22:50.709000+08:00","text":"這個分析會有誤導，並不是所有的農民都可以同時領到老農津貼跟農退儲金，大概只占四分之一左右，但是大部分的勞工是可以領取勞退金跟老年給付，對不對？","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:22:50.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:22:51.370000+08:00","text":"我說的沒有錯吧？是。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:22:54.093000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:23:01.162000+08:00","text":"所以你這樣會有一點誤導，就是如果增加到1.5倍，可能跟勞工的差距會變得更大，這個會誤導視聽。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:23:03.084000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:23:15.537000+08:00","text":"我還是強調一下，我們做這樣的分析，就是我們要先找到一些差異性，在未來跟行政院爭取的時候可以當作一個論述，因為行政院考量的一定是……","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:23:15.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:23:20.922000+08:00","text":"我剛才的論述是可以提供你去跟行政院爭取，而且這個金額才15.5億。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:23:22.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:23:24.385000+08:00","text":"以重大建設來講，金額是不多啦！對啊！","quality":0.467},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:23:24.385000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:23:34.176000+08:00","text":"你也承認是不多，我認為再多的照顧都是應該的，因為農民是相對弱勢，他們老年之後的生活保障很重要。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:23:34.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:23:36.898000+08:00","text":"對，以農業部來講，當然是越多越好，這是我們的想法。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:23:37.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:23:46.104000+08:00","text":"你說你覆蓋率還不到五成，如果是1.5倍，基本上增加你所說的15.5億，但是一定會提高覆蓋率嘛！是。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:23:46.864000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:23:58.671000+08:00","text":"不然比方說到23萬滿額的話，全部都有覆蓋的話，甚至兩筆都可以領到的也大概只有三分之一左右。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:23:59.751000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:24:13.756000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，除了委員的版本以外，我們會好好的去做規劃，然後再加上我剛才提到的，就是怎麼樣減輕農民的負擔，在同樣的金額之下，農民提繳的可以少繳一點，政府再多繳一點，保障一樣。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:24:13.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:24:22.740000+08:00","text":"然後另外一個更重要的就是對於還沒有加入的人我們來想辦法，有困難的地方，我們看怎麼樣讓他加入，對這整個方案我們會做一個包裹來跟行政院報告。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:24:23.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:24:43.603000+08:00","text":"另外，我要請教的第三個問題是老農津貼的調整，我們調整的依據跟頻率相對於其他職業別，譬如說軍公教的月退跟勞保年金等等，我們目前是4年調整一次對不對？","quality":0.791},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:24:43.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:24:44.403000+08:00","text":"對，根據CPI每4年調整一次。","quality":0.417},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:24:44.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:24:45.584000+08:00","text":"是根據前一年的CPI對不對？是。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:24:48.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:24:51.989000+08:00","text":"但是為什麼不能比照比較優惠的軍公教月退？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:24:53.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:24:58.474000+08:00","text":"在CPI增長率達正負5%的時候調整，或者至少每4年檢討一次？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:24:59.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:25:01.636000+08:00","text":"是不是可以往這個方向思考呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:25:01.756000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:25:14.185000+08:00","text":"我跟委員報告，農業部的版本已經提到行政院去了，包括每4年隨CPI調整一次，在這4年中CPI增長超過一定比例的時候也可以啟動調整，這是我們的版本。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:25:15.846000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:25:32.032000+08:00","text":"另外，在排富部分，我們將所得門檻從50萬元適度提高、財產從500萬元適度提高，還有自住房屋部分也提高，就這個部分，委員都有非常多建議……","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:25:32.032000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:25:36.213000+08:00","text":"如果調整太過消極、太過保守，照顧也不夠。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:25:36.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:25:38.394000+08:00","text":"你看，從101年到114年，這15年間從7,000塊提高到8,110塊對不對？是。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:25:43.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:25:46.658000+08:00","text":"但整體最低生活費暴增了幾倍？","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:25:47.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:25:47.938000+08:00","text":"暴增了1.5倍欸！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:25:50.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:25:58.244000+08:00","text":"從臺灣省來看，五都之外從1萬塊到1萬5,000，增加了1.5倍，那從7,000塊到8,000塊是增加幾倍？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:25:58.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:26:19.854000+08:00","text":"很有限，你應該這樣比較，在你的方案裡提出更好的方式照顧老農，透過老農津貼對老農做到更多照顧。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:26:19.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:26:26.320000+08:00","text":"就這八千塊而言，10年來才增加一千多塊，我覺得對農民沒有辦法交代。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:26:27.841000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:26:42.324000+08:00","text":"委員的意見我們也會再納入，我們現在已經針對CPI的調整時間、排富部分做了一些建議，調整跟生活所得的比例也要儘量一致化啦！","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:26:43.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:26:44.344000+08:00","text":"這部分我想也可以納入。","quality":1},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:26:44.504000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:26:46.524000+08:00","text":"另外，駐日代表處有沒有農業組的編制？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:26:47.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:26:48.645000+08:00","text":"有，我們已經成立了農業組。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:26:49.605000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:26:52.566000+08:00","text":"你們要去跟國會做一些說明，他們很在乎啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:26:53.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:27:09.448000+08:00","text":"我只要提到CPTPP，他們就會說「我們支持」，但是你們之前對福島五縣市食品設限，讓他們有點難過，雖然已經過去了，但是你要把整個原委說明清楚。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:27:10.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:27:15.269000+08:00","text":"好，我們把這部分重新整理以後會再透過農業組向日本國會說明。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"邱委員志偉","start":"2025-05-28T11:27:15.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:27:16.110000+08:00","text":"對，去做說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:27:17.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:27:17.590000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的提醒。謝謝。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T11:27:20.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:27:21.497000+08:00","text":"現在請郭國文委員詢答。","quality":0.3}]},"gazette":{"lineno":727,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（11時16分）謝謝主席，請農業部陳部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：部長辛苦了！部長，請教你第一個問題，就是福島五縣市包括農產品、水產品等食品都已經解禁，是去年解禁嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：目前福島五縣市的農漁產品進口到臺灣的狀況如何？我們是不是還有相關的管制？"],["陳部長駿季：現在等於是符合我們的相關規定都可以，但是實際的數量我現在手邊沒有資訊，我們會後再將福島五縣市的部分提供給委員。"],["邱委員志偉：對，已經解禁了，就應該沒有任何的限制，代表說福島五縣市的產品是安全無虞、沒有問題的。"],["陳部長駿季：對，是安全的。"],["邱委員志偉：過去中國是日本漁產品最大的出口國嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：在臺灣做所謂的福島五縣市食品管制之前，日本漁產品出口到臺灣的狀況怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：我是不是可以請副署長說明？"],["陳副署長建佑：報告委員，這邊沒有把數字帶出來……"],["邱委員志偉：沒關係，會後再提供給我。"],["陳副署長建佑：是。"],["邱委員志偉：當然我們的漁產品也有日本比較喜歡的品項，譬如說石斑魚，他們的接受度是蠻高的，那我們可以雙向來做更多漁業、農業的合作。我最近去拜訪了日本國會，有跟幾個日本國會議員討論，我這次去主要是針對臺灣加入CPTPP要請日本多加支持，因為今年澳洲當了主席國，這是一個最重要的關鍵時刻，日本扮演非常重要的角色，如果日本全力支持，那其他國家大概也不敢有太多的發言。"],["陳部長駿季：對我們會有幫助。"],["邱委員志偉：對，如果日本全力支持，因為全力支持跟意思性支持完全不一樣，那當然他們是全力支持，但是他們還是有一些抱怨，就是當初對福島五縣市食品的管制，因為臺灣跟日本那麼友好，但是我們卻對他們五縣市的食品管制。我說那是因為公投，就是因為有公投，所以必須要做限制，我們也是基於相信科學。我對這個部分希望在事後了解，從去年解禁之後，目前福島五縣市的農漁產品輸入臺灣的狀況怎麼樣？"],["陳部長駿季：我們會來統計，然後再提供給委員。"],["邱委員志偉：有沒有可能加強採購？"],["陳部長駿季：我想我們現在包括……"],["邱委員志偉：只要不影響到我們國內的農漁業生產……"],["陳部長駿季：對，這幾年來其實像石斑魚有太多的日本通路商開始在洽詢，希望能夠增加採購，然後在今年7月中旬的大阪食品展，我想我們農業部也會組團針對重要的農產品做一些行銷。"],["邱委員志偉：部長，雙邊是互惠的。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：如果我們也跟他們進口多一點……"],["陳部長駿季：跟他們買一些，然後他們也幫我們買一些。"],["邱委員志偉：對，對我們的石斑魚他們也可以有更高的接受度。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：好，今天討論的這個主題很重要，三保一金當然是對農民最重要的照顧，我覺得現在的照顧還是不夠，如果按照郭國文委員的版本，就是從1倍到1.5倍，整體預算評估大概增加……"],["陳部長駿季：15.5億。"],["邱委員志偉：你說15.5億，你是用9萬人口還是用20萬人口，因為你現在的覆蓋率是49%，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：你的覆蓋率是49%，那他自己提撥是1%到10%，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：那你這個15.5億是怎麼計算出來的？"],["陳部長駿季：我們15.5億是依現在的人數去粗估，因為當你提高的時候，是已經在提繳的……"],["邱委員志偉：你現在的粗估是用49%對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：大概九萬多人口。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：如果是符合資格的，應該是20萬左右嘛？"],["陳部長駿季：22萬左右。"],["邱委員志偉：那你增加政府的提撥，當然就會增加誘因，所以人數一定會增加嘛！我覺得是這樣，你們是估15.5億，甚至到20億、30億，這是對農民的照顧，我覺得沒有必要再去跟其他的職業族群去做比較。你用勞保跟農保，農民領取老農津貼加農退儲金的金額，跟勞工領取勞保老年給付跟勞工退休金的金額，我覺得比較基礎不一樣。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：農民領取老農津貼加農退儲金的大概有多少人？"],["陳部長駿季：現在農保是85.3萬人，但是65歲以下的是31.7萬人。"],["邱委員志偉：那有資格到最後領取農退……"],["陳部長駿季：實際上，農保完全合格的是22.3萬人。"],["邱委員志偉：最後可以領到農退儲金的最多就是……"],["陳部長駿季：22.3萬人。"],["邱委員志偉：所以並不是所有農民都可以領到每個月3萬8,000元的這種金額，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：只是少數，大概不到四分之一，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是實際從農的部分。"],["邱委員志偉：那勞工大部分都可以領到3萬3,000元左右，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你不能用這個當作比較的基礎，這個倍數一定要提高，至於說要幾倍，是1.2倍、1.5倍、1.7倍或2倍，我們都可以去討論。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["邱委員志偉：那我覺得以1.5倍作為基礎來看，這個金額是增加不多，但是對農民的覆蓋率或者他的意願會增加啊！"],["陳部長駿季：跟委員報告，我要先說明一下，就是我們並沒有反對委員這樣的提案，那我們會做這樣的分析，就是我們要去向行政院申請經費的時候……"],["邱委員志偉：這個分析會有誤導，並不是所有的農民都可以同時領到老農津貼跟農退儲金，大概只占四分之一左右，但是大部分的勞工是可以領取勞退金跟老年給付，對不對？我說的沒有錯吧？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：所以你這樣會有一點誤導，就是如果增加到1.5倍，可能跟勞工的差距會變得更大，這個會誤導視聽。"],["陳部長駿季：我還是強調一下，我們做這樣的分析，就是我們要先找到一些差異性，在未來跟行政院爭取的時候可以當作一個論述，因為行政院考量的一定是……"],["邱委員志偉：我剛才的論述是可以提供你去跟行政院爭取，而且這個金額才15.5億。"],["陳部長駿季：以重大建設來講，金額是不多啦！"],["邱委員志偉：對啊！你也承認是不多，我認為再多的照顧都是應該的，因為農民是相對弱勢，他們老年之後的生活保障很重要。"],["陳部長駿季：對，以農業部來講，當然是越多越好，這是我們的想法。"],["邱委員志偉：你說你覆蓋率還不到五成，如果是1.5倍，基本上增加你所說的15.5億，但是一定會提高覆蓋率嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：不然比方說到23萬滿額的話，全部都有覆蓋的話，甚至兩筆都可以領到的也大概只有三分之一左右。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，除了委員的版本以外，我們會好好的去做規劃，然後再加上我剛才提到的，就是怎麼樣減輕農民的負擔，在同樣的金額之下，農民提繳的可以少繳一點，政府再多繳一點，保障一樣。然後另外一個更重要的就是對於還沒有加入的人我們來想辦法，有困難的地方，我們看怎麼樣讓他加入，對這整個方案我們會做一個包裹來跟行政院報告。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，我要請教的第三個問題是老農津貼的調整，我們調整的依據跟頻率相對於其他職業別，譬如說軍公教的月退跟勞保年金等等，我們目前是4年調整一次對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：對，根據CPI每4年調整一次。"],["邱委員志偉：是根據前一年的CPI對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：但是為什麼不能比照比較優惠的軍公教月退？在CPI增長率達正負5%的時候調整，或者至少每4年檢討一次？是不是可以往這個方向思考呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，農業部的版本已經提到行政院去了，包括每4年隨CPI調整一次，在這4年中CPI增長超過一定比例的時候也可以啟動調整，這是我們的版本。另外，在排富部分，我們將所得門檻從50萬元適度提高、財產從500萬元適度提高，還有自住房屋部分也提高，就這個部分，委員都有非常多建議……"],["邱委員志偉：如果調整太過消極、太過保守，照顧也不夠。你看，從101年到114年，這15年間從7,000塊提高到8,110塊對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["邱委員志偉：但整體最低生活費暴增了幾倍？暴增了1.5倍欸！從臺灣省來看，五都之外從1萬塊到1萬5,000，增加了1.5倍，那從7,000塊到8,000塊是增加幾倍？很有限，你應該這樣比較，在你的方案裡提出更好的方式照顧老農，透過老農津貼對老農做到更多照顧。就這八千塊而言，10年來才增加一千多塊，我覺得對農民沒有辦法交代。"],["陳部長駿季：委員的意見我們也會再納入，我們現在已經針對CPI的調整時間、排富部分做了一些建議，調整跟生活所得的比例也要儘量一致化啦！這部分我想也可以納入。"],["邱委員志偉：另外，駐日代表處有沒有農業組的編制？"],["陳部長駿季：有，我們已經成立了農業組。"],["邱委員志偉：你們要去跟國會做一些說明，他們很在乎啊！我只要提到CPTPP，他們就會說「我們支持」，但是你們之前對福島五縣市食品設限，讓他們有點難過，雖然已經過去了，但是你要把整個原委說明清楚。"],["陳部長駿季：好，我們把這部分重新整理以後會再透過農業組向日本國會說明。"],["邱委員志偉：對，去做說明。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的提醒。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請郭國文委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-15","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","林岱樺","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","郭國文","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","林俊憲","呂玉玲"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案；二、本院\n委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1145401_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}