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","start":"2025-05-28T11:52:52.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:52:57.398000+08:00","text":"大部分是同仁假如有額外幫我們做一些事情，我們是會獎勵他。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-05-28T11:52:57.738000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:06.083000+08:00","text":"還有逢年過節的時候，我們也會給同仁一些額外的獎勵，有一點犒賞同仁的味道，絕大部分都是這樣。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:06.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:15.828000+08:00","text":"還有，如果有婚喪喜慶，我們必須要送花籃。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:15.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:23.692000+08:00","text":"了解，可能就像是韓國瑜院長在我們立法委員生日、母親節的時候也會送我們一些禮物一樣，這是特別費的費用，你們現在還剩多少？","quality":0.796},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:25.158000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:25.398000+08:00","text":"它就是零。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:26.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:26.319000+08:00","text":"就是零？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:26.539000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:29.460000+08:00","text":"所以就沒有了，已經刪掉了，對不對？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:29.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:00.076000+08:00","text":"剛剛還講到我們怎麼刪掉救命錢，就我所理解的，秘書長也可以幫我核對一下，據我所知，內政部裡面的空勤總隊國內旅費是被刪了20%，還有其國外旅費、出國訓練費都被刪減了15%，其實都會影響我們飛行員的訓練，還有一些維護的資源，也會影響他的專業能力以及他可能沒有辦法有一些例行的會議，這是救難錢的部分。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:02.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:09.156000+08:00","text":"還有消防署的災後復原與消防訓練也都會受到限制，這是我的理解。是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:09.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:17.302000+08:00","text":"不只是內政部，其他的部會也都一樣，包括數位發展部的業務費被砍掉了大概40%，我們行政院總共5億的業務費被砍掉了2億。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:20.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:35.595000+08:00","text":"像我自己之前一直非常在乎新南向的預算，讓我們很多小朋友的一些團體有機會可以不要只去中國而可以到新南向的一些國家去做體育的交流，據我所知，這個經費也被刪減，是誰刪的呢？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:36.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:44.621000+08:00","text":"就是國民黨跟民眾黨聯手刪掉，所以冤有頭、債有主，當初他們不要刪的話，現在也不會發生這件事情，所以這還是要回頭去究責藍、白。","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:45.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:19.018000+08:00","text":"接下來回到我自己原本的問題，我今天其實最主要是想要先問秘書長，就是我一直都非常關心促轉基金的創新運用，因為我認為它應該要有更多的公私協力來支持民間關心這個議題的一些相關的行動，而不是去補貼部分公務部門的一些公務預算支出。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:19.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:50.572000+08:00","text":"其實我從去年開始進到立法院到現在，基本上在每一次的總質詢或者是在上次的經濟委員會，我也有去質詢過劉主委，但我也發現，11月21號院長主持的行政院推動轉型正義會報也曾經作出決議，要求國發會應該要去規劃促轉基金，期能達成所謂的公私協力，而且要更友善民間的綜合性補助計畫，可是我到目前都沒有看到具體的方案，所以到底規劃進度是什麼？","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:50.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:57.698000+08:00","text":"行政院真的認同促轉基金應該要有更多的公私協力跟創新運用嗎？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:57.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:58.519000+08:00","text":"我想問一下你們的態度。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:01.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:05.226000+08:00","text":"我們已經請國發會在研擬當中，實際的狀況……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:05.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:08.990000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我先請教一下秘書長，就是我們到底認不認同這件事？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:08.990000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:09.991000+08:00","text":"是、是，態度上……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:09.991000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:11.252000+08:00","text":"行政院是認同的？對。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:12.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:27.264000+08:00","text":"好，接下來我就想要請問一下，因為其實今年政府也頒了轉型正義階段性政策重點的一個策進方案，對於促進轉型正義說要強化民主韌性以及要做民間扎根、社會有感，到底我們現在做了什麼？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:27.264000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:29.005000+08:00","text":"我們有沒有開始做一些社會討論？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:29.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:33.687000+08:00","text":"可不可以請人權處處長簡短的說明一下目前的進度？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴處長俊兆","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:35.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:45.787000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員關心這個事情，的確今年二月行政院發布了這個策進方案，當中很重要的就是要扎根民間社會、強化民主韌性。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"賴處長俊兆","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:46.327000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:07.861000+08:00","text":"所以針對委員關心的促轉基金這個部分，我們其實在去年底開始到今年三月，在有限的預算規模底下，我們也進行了一些社會溝通跟討論，在這個討論的過程中，其實一個部分是包含預計在接下來的會報會提出有關促轉基金……","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:08.101000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:08.962000+08:00","text":"六月的時候應該就要會報了嘛？","quality":0.538},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:09.402000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:10.743000+08:00","text":"半年嘛，六月的時候應該就要會報了。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:14.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:19.171000+08:00","text":"剛剛聽起來，你們已經做了一些社會溝通了，所以在六月會報你們會提出一個比較完整的計畫嗎？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"賴處長俊兆","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:19.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:31.040000+08:00","text":"是，我們會提出一個促轉基金的策略計畫，回扣到我們現在促轉條例第七條的五個法定用途，比較重要的是剛剛委員所關心的後面的機制。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:31.040000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:32.261000+08:00","text":"對，公私協力的部分。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴處長俊兆","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:32.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:55.335000+08:00","text":"這個機制其實在去年卓院長十一月的會報有責成國發會做研議，目前我們所掌握到的，也就是在會報的網站上面公開的今（114）年轉型正義相關的業務規劃裡面，國發會的確也把目前第一季、第三季相關的進度……有把公私協力的活化機制納入他們的工作項目當中。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:56.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:09.209000+08:00","text":"其實我自己去問，不管是國發會也好、檔案局也好，我會覺得資金的進度還是相當有限，因為我不太確定這些社會討論的部分到底檔案局或是國發會有沒有去加入？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:09.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:17.535000+08:00","text":"他們有沒有真的去了解民間真正的一些期待或者是他們到底希望建立一個什麼樣的友善機制？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:18.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:34.185000+08:00","text":"我不是那麼確定，但我的感覺是似乎看起來都還是比較消極，所以如果今天你們已經做了社會討論，接下來就是國發會跟人權處這邊要如何來把……因為六月之後這個接下來是不是就回到國發會了？是。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:35.245000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:37.427000+08:00","text":"接下來這一段是要如何的去進行呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴處長俊兆","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:40.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:57.623000+08:00","text":"因為這個策略計畫搭配現在院作為基金的主管機關，執行機關是國發會，主要是責成在檔案局，的確在整個策略計畫發布的之前跟之後，我們也需要再跟國發會做比較密切的溝通。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"賴處長俊兆","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:58.144000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:12.172000+08:00","text":"至於委員關心社會討論的部分，先前在跟國發會的幾次內部溝通當中，他們也承諾說會把一些相關社會討論的過程在他們整個公私協力的機制裡面納入。","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:15.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:40.142000+08:00","text":"好，這樣聽起來，我覺得我還是希望行政院秘書長這邊應該要來更積極地去要求國發會來落實這件事情，我請問一下秘書長，這個是不是可以請秘書長來要求國發會跟人權處在兩週內提供一個你們現在做的一些規劃報告跟進度到我的辦公室，讓我們來了解一下這個事情，好嗎？好。","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:40.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:53.751000+08:00","text":"因為如此我們才能夠去確保到底這個過程裡面是不是真的可以讓民間覺得它的可近用性是高的，然後這個部分是不是可以請秘書長這樣子去要求呢？可以。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:54.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:09.060000+08:00","text":"好，接下來的會報，因為下次會報是11月，希望可以在會議裡要求國發會積極監督他們，好嗎？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:09.060000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:09.180000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"龔秘書長明鑫","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:09.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:09.721000+08:00","text":"可以，可以。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員雅琳","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:10.221000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:11.221000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:11.521000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:16.378143+08:00","text":"何欣純委員、何欣純委員、何欣純委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:16.678143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:21.535286+08:00","text":"王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:21.835286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:26.692429+08:00","text":"羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:26.992429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:31.849571+08:00","text":"蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:32.149571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:37.006714+08:00","text":"林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:37.306714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:42.163857+08:00","text":"鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:42.463857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:47.321000+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:47.621000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:52.478143+08:00","text":"蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:52.778143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:59.635286+08:00","text":"登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:59.935286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:13.935286+08:00","text":"委員王鴻薇所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報；書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":808,"blocks":[["張委員雅琳：（11時52分）我剛才在後面真的等很久。先請秘書長好了，人權處等一下。"],["主席：秘書長。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：張委員好。"],["張委員雅琳：秘書長，我剛剛在下面聽，我覺得有滿多地方可能要闢謠一下，秘書長要不要先簡單說一下特別費你還剩多少？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：是零，被刪光了。"],["張委員雅琳：他一直說你拿去請客、吃飯、送禮。你們特別費平常是做什麼的？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：大部分是同仁假如有額外幫我們做一些事情，我們是會獎勵他。還有逢年過節的時候，我們也會給同仁一些額外的獎勵，有一點犒賞同仁的味道，絕大部分都是這樣。還有，如果有婚喪喜慶，我們必須要送花籃。"],["張委員雅琳：了解，可能就像是韓國瑜院長在我們立法委員生日、母親節的時候也會送我們一些禮物一樣，這是特別費的費用，你們現在還剩多少？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：它就是零。"],["張委員雅琳：就是零？所以就沒有了，已經刪掉了，對不對？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：對。"],["張委員雅琳：剛剛還講到我們怎麼刪掉救命錢，就我所理解的，秘書長也可以幫我核對一下，據我所知，內政部裡面的空勤總隊國內旅費是被刪了20%，還有其國外旅費、出國訓練費都被刪減了15%，其實都會影響我們飛行員的訓練，還有一些維護的資源，也會影響他的專業能力以及他可能沒有辦法有一些例行的會議，這是救難錢的部分。還有消防署的災後復原與消防訓練也都會受到限制，這是我的理解。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：是。不只是內政部，其他的部會也都一樣，包括數位發展部的業務費被砍掉了大概40%，我們行政院總共5億的業務費被砍掉了2億。"],["張委員雅琳：像我自己之前一直非常在乎新南向的預算，讓我們很多小朋友的一些團體有機會可以不要只去中國而可以到新南向的一些國家去做體育的交流，據我所知，這個經費也被刪減，是誰刪的呢？就是國民黨跟民眾黨聯手刪掉，所以冤有頭、債有主，當初他們不要刪的話，現在也不會發生這件事情，所以這還是要回頭去究責藍、白。","接下來回到我自己原本的問題，我今天其實最主要是想要先問秘書長，就是我一直都非常關心促轉基金的創新運用，因為我認為它應該要有更多的公私協力來支持民間關心這個議題的一些相關的行動，而不是去補貼部分公務部門的一些公務預算支出。其實我從去年開始進到立法院到現在，基本上在每一次的總質詢或者是在上次的經濟委員會，我也有去質詢過劉主委，但我也發現，11月21號院長主持的行政院推動轉型正義會報也曾經作出決議，要求國發會應該要去規劃促轉基金，期能達成所謂的公私協力，而且要更友善民間的綜合性補助計畫，可是我到目前都沒有看到具體的方案，所以到底規劃進度是什麼？行政院真的認同促轉基金應該要有更多的公私協力跟創新運用嗎？我想問一下你們的態度。"],["龔秘書長明鑫：我們已經請國發會在研擬當中，實際的狀況……"],["張委員雅琳：沒關係，我先請教一下秘書長，就是我們到底認不認同這件事？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：是、是，態度上……"],["張委員雅琳：行政院是認同的？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：對。"],["張委員雅琳：好，接下來我就想要請問一下，因為其實今年政府也頒了轉型正義階段性政策重點的一個策進方案，對於促進轉型正義說要強化民主韌性以及要做民間扎根、社會有感，到底我們現在做了什麼？我們有沒有開始做一些社會討論？可不可以請人權處處長簡短的說明一下目前的進度？"],["賴處長俊兆：謝謝委員關心這個事情，的確今年二月行政院發布了這個策進方案，當中很重要的就是要扎根民間社會、強化民主韌性。所以針對委員關心的促轉基金這個部分，我們其實在去年底開始到今年三月，在有限的預算規模底下，我們也進行了一些社會溝通跟討論，在這個討論的過程中，其實一個部分是包含預計在接下來的會報會提出有關促轉基金……"],["張委員雅琳：六月的時候應該就要會報了嘛？半年嘛，六月的時候應該就要會報了。剛剛聽起來，你們已經做了一些社會溝通了，所以在六月會報你們會提出一個比較完整的計畫嗎？"],["賴處長俊兆：是，我們會提出一個促轉基金的策略計畫，回扣到我們現在促轉條例第七條的五個法定用途，比較重要的是剛剛委員所關心的後面的機制。"],["張委員雅琳：對，公私協力的部分。"],["賴處長俊兆：這個機制其實在去年卓院長十一月的會報有責成國發會做研議，目前我們所掌握到的，也就是在會報的網站上面公開的今（114）年轉型正義相關的業務規劃裡面，國發會的確也把目前第一季、第三季相關的進度……有把公私協力的活化機制納入他們的工作項目當中。"],["張委員雅琳：其實我自己去問，不管是國發會也好、檔案局也好，我會覺得資金的進度還是相當有限，因為我不太確定這些社會討論的部分到底檔案局或是國發會有沒有去加入？他們有沒有真的去了解民間真正的一些期待或者是他們到底希望建立一個什麼樣的友善機制？我不是那麼確定，但我的感覺是似乎看起來都還是比較消極，所以如果今天你們已經做了社會討論，接下來就是國發會跟人權處這邊要如何來把……因為六月之後這個接下來是不是就回到國發會了？"],["賴處長俊兆：是。"],["張委員雅琳：接下來這一段是要如何的去進行呢？"],["賴處長俊兆：因為這個策略計畫搭配現在院作為基金的主管機關，執行機關是國發會，主要是責成在檔案局，的確在整個策略計畫發布的之前跟之後，我們也需要再跟國發會做比較密切的溝通。至於委員關心社會討論的部分，先前在跟國發會的幾次內部溝通當中，他們也承諾說會把一些相關社會討論的過程在他們整個公私協力的機制裡面納入。"],["張委員雅琳：好，這樣聽起來，我覺得我還是希望行政院秘書長這邊應該要來更積極地去要求國發會來落實這件事情，我請問一下秘書長，這個是不是可以請秘書長來要求國發會跟人權處在兩週內提供一個你們現在做的一些規劃報告跟進度到我的辦公室，讓我們來了解一下這個事情，好嗎？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：好。"],["張委員雅琳：因為如此我們才能夠去確保到底這個過程裡面是不是真的可以讓民間覺得它的可近用性是高的，然後這個部分是不是可以請秘書長這樣子去要求呢？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：可以。"],["張委員雅琳：好，接下來的會報，因為下次會報是11月，希望可以在會議裡要求國發會積極監督他們，好嗎？可以嗎？"],["龔秘書長明鑫：可以，可以。"],["張委員雅琳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：何欣純委員、何欣純委員、何欣純委員不在。","王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員、王鴻薇委員不在。","羅明才委員、羅明才委員、羅明才委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員、林楚茵委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員不在。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在。","登記發言委員除不在場者外，其餘均已發言完畢，詢答結束。委員王鴻薇所提書面質詢，列入紀錄，刊登公報；書面質詢和未及答復部分，請相關單位於一週內以書面答復，並副知本會。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":140,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-15-22","speakers":["張宏陸","麥玉珍","李柏毅","高金素梅","黃捷","蘇巧慧","王美惠","張智倫","丁學忠","許宇甄","吳琪銘","牛煦庭","徐欣瑩","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃國昌","翁曉玲","張啓楷","張雅琳","王鴻薇"],"page_start":91,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期內政委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"處理114年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算解凍案","agenda_id":"1145401_00003"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}