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你有可能會符合一般老農的期待嗎我不知道 因為每個人的期待可能不一樣 但是基本上委員所提到 很多委員所提到的要根據有一些它的物價指數跟那個調整我們大概也是參考這樣的一個調整的方式去設計的那大概多久可以把這個決定發出來呢我想"},{"start":96.875,"end":122.881,"text":"我們不會提出一個建議 因為最主要是需要一些經費所以我們必須在行政院獲得行政院的支持嘛放寬 你的意思是說經費的部分一定要行政院支持但放寬不需要經費啊沒有你是說放寬之後會增加的部分的經費 了解那這個部分我想一定要得到行政院的支持所以我們 那你們有試算過大概會增加多少嗎"},{"start":124.008,"end":124.249,"text":"我們現在試試算"},{"start":128.39,"end":134.392,"text":"大概30億左右大概30億左右那可以幫助非常多的老農所以這個要請這個我們部長要據理力爭為我們的農民發聲尤其這是為我們台灣付出了一輩子的老農我覺得非常需要那個部長可以幫他們說幾句話那最近前陣子因為這個低溫的影響導致雲林縣包括可能雲林以南的這些荔枝 酪梨 結果率不佳"},{"start":158.018,"end":184.41,"text":"那經縣府爭取這個天然災害救助之後農業部也已經公告了那這一點我必須要代表這個農民給農業部肯定就是說非常的迅速那但是呢接著還有另外一個嚴峻的問題就是這個柑橘類的果樹到目前為止普遍也是結果率偏低不曉得那個部長知不知道這件事情"},{"start":185.59,"end":213.056,"text":"說明一下就是有時候這些多年生的果樹從開花到結果有沒有那有時候像荔枝您知道荔枝花開得很漂亮但是它結果率不好同樣的我們觀察到結果必須確認的時候我們就確認了所以我們就很快的開了那柑橘類的時候它一樣它會先開花然後結果的時候那個生理的弱果是情況怎麼樣所以我們可能還要再觀察一段時間大概多久呢大概"},{"start":214.387,"end":232.657,"text":"6月底到7月中目前我收到的消息我直接問農業部他是跟我說6月中下旬所以我們希望是越快越好因為這些農民其實是非常焦躁不安的那也很擔心說他們一整年的努力就要付諸流水了那他們現在"},{"start":233.257,"end":253.896,"text":"非常的焦急那希望說農業部我們趕快啟動這個四方會館趕快去現場看然後解決他們現在焦急的部分讓他們可以得到這個應有的協助那這一點要請部長多多加油 敬訴不要等到七月七月我覺得太久了這個要因為現在天堂的關係可以去看"},{"start":254.056,"end":273.165,"text":"我們一定立即第一時間就去看這一點一定要請部長要求一下他們要盡速的不要說等等等到農民都已經沒有希望了感覺無望了對不對那另外呢上個禮拜上個禮拜本席有向您追蹤這個季節性的這個"},{"start":276.126,"end":286.07,"text":"就是那個農業移工新制的問題那農業移工是有季節性的這個需求問題那如果申請之後還要向勞動部進行維持一個90天的審查可能早就錯過了這個生長跟採收的季節那塗增這個農民的困擾那部長上個禮拜有答應說你會親自跟勞動部紅部長談然後把農業移工拉出來單獨審查"},{"start":303.956,"end":318.782,"text":"不曉得談的這個結果如何我第一個部分我跟委員報告就是上次您問了以後的第二天吧我就院會我剛好勞動部長就坐在我旁邊我就親自跟他講了然後他第一個部分"},{"start":319.622,"end":342.324,"text":"在規定上面來講他們是七天加七天再加一個審查期所以他們會從更簡化的方式然後同樣的農業部有責任農業部在第一線審查的時候以現在來講我們農糧署在處理的話大概是三個禮拜到四個禮拜甚至於再加上前面的作業的話可能要到一個月去了"},{"start":342.904,"end":352.355,"text":"那我也希望說我們農業部本身在出核的時候也要簡化那個流程那勞動部在審查的時候也簡化的話那這樣的話時間就可以有機會去壓縮"},{"start":354.665,"end":372.681,"text":"對 這個就是本席要講的 因為本席也問了這個勞動部喔勞動部的意思就是說 欸 他們好像只要幾天 好像是15天以內7天加7天嘛對 7天 就是說15天以內就可以那如果假設90天 扣除到他的15天這等於是農業部一個部會要審查60幾天欸"},{"start":376.765,"end":390.504,"text":"我也曾經查過我們農業部現在平均的審查大概是一個月到一個半月四個禮拜到六個禮拜但是勞動部那邊的7加7他也不會那麼快因為他還有他們有去算他的行政流程還有最後的會議的審查那個時間"},{"start":392.386,"end":414.241,"text":"所以就是希望說農業部的部分除了說已經部長已經很迅速的跟勞動部溝通了那我們農業部是不是內部也自我要求一下說我們剛才說的我們內部也會加快 要趕快簡化這個流程勞動部有一部分他們提供的資訊我們還要再check一下理論上是7加7天但是還有一些行程還有審查的流程"},{"start":416.243,"end":441.223,"text":"對 所以我也希望說如果說有什麼需要調整的部分儘速的趕快去解決趕快去解決讓它簡化我們跟勞動部大概溝通無礙我想我們會一起努力好 OK 謝謝這一點也請部長繼續幫我們農民追蹤因為這個很多就是需要移工的這些農民大家都非常的關心尤其因為可以從1.2萬的這個移工增加到2萬其實對於整個整體臺灣農業我想也是幫助非常的大"},{"start":445.106,"end":459.879,"text":"那接下來我本席也想要請問一下有關於那個進口豬肉含瘦肉精的事情前陣子連續3批的豬肉都驗出有萊特多巴胺那針對這樣子的食安警訊食藥署卻表示說"},{"start":460.64,"end":467.382,"text":"不會再提高這個抽樣的比率也拒絕公佈流向那導致有很多國內的豬農他也很憤慨啊無法理解說為什麼政府會這麼的雙標面對進口的豬肉可以這麼寬容這麼低調那對於"},{"start":477.045,"end":480.346,"text":"國內的養豬產業只要一有違規就會立即加強查核然後嚴格開罰這不但讓豬農覺得是雙標到極點也覺得被犧牲被忽視甚至我們一般的這個消費者也覺得很無奈啊怎麼會這樣子的話"},{"start":494.631,"end":514.822,"text":"如果假設流入校園怎麼辦呢那他們如果不小心買到怎麼辦呢所以我也很希望說部長可以去理解我們豬農的一個心聲那因為農業部也一直強調說要守護台灣的農業那是不是部長也要跟這個食藥署這邊包括衛福部這邊來表達一下你的立場呢"},{"start":515.507,"end":539.525,"text":"基本上農業部的立場就是要確保我們國內的豬產業能夠持續發展這是一個非常重要的至於說進口的豬肉是由衛護部主管我在這邊也要做一個說明其實衛護部在邊境把關的部分農業部是防疫的部分他們是檢疫的部分能夠讓他進來一定是合於國家的標準沒有說他不合於國家的標準"},{"start":540.626,"end":554.097,"text":"有一些誤解我覺得必須要澄清但是以農業部來講我們一定讓我們國內的豬肉更有品牌更有市場區隔是 那本席想要請教您知道現在食藥署針對豬肉抽樣的比例是多少嗎這邊有講到差不多要看它的不同的國家啦差不多二至十排啦那您覺得這樣足夠嗎"},{"start":564.946,"end":585.235,"text":"我所了解就以防疫的角度因為他們查驗的我不是很清楚那海關的部分當初要讓這個萊豬進口的時候當初農委會那時候農委會也有說他說一定是逐批抽樣那到底是什麼原因降到連10%都不到的標準呢本來是說每一批都要抽喔"},{"start":585.935,"end":609.771,"text":"我覺得查驗的部分不應該是農業部來發言我知道但是當初是你們的立場你們跟我們的鄉親講講說一定會要求他們都要逐批查驗怎麼現在降到這樣子農業部一句話也不說我想抽驗的比例跟他的風險是有關聯的以防疫的角度如果說我想要知道這個農業部的態度您認為應不應該恢復逐批檢驗"},{"start":614.654,"end":630.492,"text":"我認為就是所有的貨品的防疫檢驗的部分會根據它的風險它如果曾經發生不違規的時候它的查驗的抽檢的比例就會提高本席跟部長提供一個最新的民調數據"},{"start":631.773,"end":634.917,"text":"消基會針對進口萊豬做了一份民調調查結果高達90%的消費者在意是否買到這個瘦肉精的這個產品64%的民眾表示說支持肉品應該逐批檢驗"},{"start":649.215,"end":660.202,"text":"有高達76%的民眾表示不同意販售含萊特波巴胺的肉品部長這就是民意啊多數人的確是擔心吃到萊豬也不想要買到萊豬而且希望恢復這個竹皮檢驗也希望說農業部可以幫他們把這個聲音發出來那另外我想要知道的是說是不是也要強烈的要求"},{"start":676.351,"end":691.297,"text":"保護我們台灣優質的豬肉這當然是我們大家不喜歡來豬肯定就是我們國產豬肉的機會嘛我們這國產豬肉的標示也一定要清楚一定要把這個品牌做出來讓我們國產豬肉更受這個消費者的喜愛"},{"start":694.978,"end":703.505,"text":"第一個就是國產的部分沒問題我們一定會去加強國產豬的標示還有一些品牌區隔但是您剛才講的我覺得邊境的查驗要回到科學的根據還有國際的標準當初是中央政府出來講的講說我要逐批檢查怎麼會出爾反爾呢你現在說科學根據"},{"start":717.236,"end":725.64,"text":"那就逐批檢查才有科學根據逐批檢查出來的數據可以說服大家你現在是在幫他們進口商說話嗎你現在是在幫萊特多巴胺的豬肉說話嗎你不要汙衊喔我的意思是說科學根據是什麼你告訴我是什麼什麼是科學根據所有的邊境的查驗的比例是根據那個農產品的風險什麼風險你現在是在幫"},{"start":746.129,"end":759.686,"text":"進口的萊特多巴胺豬肉酸好嗎我幫你不要這樣講喔不要這樣講我覺得這樣講就是污衊沒有我沒有針對萊特多巴胺我是好好在跟你說好好在跟你說你支不支持支不支持應該要逐批檢查我"},{"start":760.928,"end":773.251,"text":"我還是說要回到所有的抽驗要回到科學的根據跟什麼科學根據你告訴我所有的當你的產品當你的產品如果說經常違規你如果要逐批檢查的話你那個科學根據的數據哪裡來的呀科學有所謂的抽樣的根據那為什麼中央要出爾反爾當初不管是衛福部農業部都說我們一定會逐批檢查絕對不會讓萊特多巴胺抽標的豬肉進口結果"},{"start":788.894,"end":795.121,"text":"上禮拜 上個月就來個3%基本上部長我告訴你 豬農對對 我知道我也會去問他們我現在是問你的態度你支不支持豬農對你抱持很高的期待他們期待的是一個能為他們發聲替他們爭取公平競爭條件的農業部長我想"},{"start":810.117,"end":816.525,"text":"除了剛剛提到的這個恢復竹皮檢查之外把這個標示清楚然後要怎麼樣支持國產豬的具體的措施部長你要能夠幫助他們而不是在這裡辯護欸沒有我告訴你國內的豬肉我們如果說消費者對國內的豬肉有信心的話"},{"start":829.119,"end":843.245,"text":"任何進口豬肉我們不用擔心所以我們的重點農業部的重點就是讓我們的國產豬是你要好好把國產豬照顧好之外我覺得我剛才也是只是問你而已問你說支持不支持逐匹檢查難道是你可以決定說要不要逐匹檢查的嗎我只是在問你說"},{"start":846.647,"end":871.802,"text":"你知不支持而已嘛那你就說你支持就好了嘛跟支持不支持沒有關係是跟科學的根據跟國際的規範那你科學根據哪裡來嘛哪裡來你的科學根據你告訴我如果你可以說服我我不是不能被說服的呀所有的邊境的查驗各國都有他的相關的遊戲規則那為什麼我們一開始中央政府要說他要逐批檢查他要百分之百檢查那是不是在欺騙我們的鄉親欺騙我們的消費者是嗎"},{"start":874.844,"end":877.905,"text":"我相信至少不是我嘴巴講出來的 我不知道但是之前的部長啊 之前的兩個部長都說呀 恢復部部長 農業部部長農業委會主委就說一定會保分之百檢查 那時候的行政院長蘇貞昌"},{"start":894.75,"end":897.171,"text":"他也說要百分之百檢查逐批檢查那為什麼會出爾反爾呢為什麼你要幫他們辯護呢我本來只是要求你照顧我們本土的豬農確定他們的品牌 優化他們的品牌"},{"start":913.425,"end":925.552,"text":"你為什麼要幫他們辯護呢我剛才講的我純粹針對防疫的角度我不是查驗喔防疫的角度要根據風險根據科學根據喔那至於說邊境從一百那你好好的就把這個講清楚嘛為什麼要幫他們辯護你不要說我是擁護那個萊豬窩怎麼樣的我覺得你這個就是掛帽子"},{"start":933.317,"end":937.46,"text":"我沒有要幫你掛帽子是你剛剛自己講的我問你說你是不是在幫他們辯護然後你跟我說什麼什麼科學根據我說科學根據在哪裡嘛我有沒有要求說你要照顧本土豬農有沒有我會承諾說我們一定是農業部的立場是嘛你就好好講你會支持本土豬農就好你再跟我"},{"start":956.691,"end":959.272,"text":"狗氣沙講說什麼什麼什麼什麼樣的科學證據我跟你說如果你不是自己講出這個空間我要怎麼掛你帽子我要怎麼掛你帽子你自己剛才沒有幫他辯護嗎"},{"start":971.357,"end":973.119,"text":"這不叫辯護這是從事實上那我問你願不願意幫他們說應該要恢復逐批檢查願不願意願不願意幫出農呼籲幫我們消費者呼籲衛福部說應該要"},{"start":986.773,"end":994.696,"text":"恢復逐批檢查為什麼之前的部長可以講為什麼之前的院長可以講你現在不願意講你如果不願意講的話那就有幫他們辯護的嫌疑這樣子我是不是你就有幫他辯護的嫌疑這樣可以嗎我沒有扣你帽子我只是懷疑這樣可以嗎你的專業是什麼"},{"start":1010.362,"end":1015.869,"text":"我的專業就是說你所有的檢驗一定要有科學根據那你的科學根據是什麼你沒有主題檢查你的風險哪裡來你怎麼算出那個風險的所有的東西都有取樣的標準是 我當然知道但是你要體會"},{"start":1025.342,"end":1035.55,"text":"你體會豬農的心情 他們就覺得雙標你對他們檢查那麼苛刻你講這一句話我可以接受但是你在那邊跟我胡亂說什麼因為他2至10%是因為他有什麼科學標準我不接受 我不接受2至10%是你講的喔"},{"start":1044.677,"end":1070.367,"text":"我不接受 我是問你說現在只有2至10%你能不能接受然後我問你說是不是要能夠逐臂檢查你說巴拉巴拉巴拉對 我說根據科學依據嘛我沒有巴拉巴拉我是根據科學依據那科學依據是什麼你說服我啊科學依據就是風險啊 風險的高低啊風險是什麼 多大風險你知道嗎你就不知道你要說服我我怎麼知道我不知道那你說我告訴你 所有的東西都有它的風險你說嘛 那具體是什麼你告訴我具體內容嘛我講一個很簡單的"},{"start":1074.509,"end":1092.782,"text":"一個農產品如果進口我現在跟你說萊豬你就用萊豬的跟我說我告訴你萊豬到目前為止沒有一個豔豬是超標的嘛它有含萊豬但是它是符合國內的標準嘛符合國內的標準啊所以你也支持他說不用公開流向"},{"start":1093.973,"end":1097.335,"text":"所以你也支持嗎你也支持嗎我現在就在問你嘛我問你農業部的立場嘛對啊你農業部的立場是什麼你沒有個人的想法嗎反正我現在就告訴你我現在就告訴你"},{"start":1110.985,"end":1113.767,"text":"我希望我們國家是一體的不希望農業部跟衛福部兩個就是雙重標準我希望說您能夠落實照顧豬農優化我們台灣國內的產品這一點你可以做到嗎好那這一點就麻煩那個部長要能夠落實這樣可以嗎"},{"start":1131.556,"end":1137.8,"text":"那不要再幫什麼衛福部在那邊辯護了不需要你不需要幫他們解釋也不需要幫他們辯護他們我自己會問怎麼會我問你這個你會幫他們回答呢好嗎我回答是我們你來你好好來關心他們豬農我相信豬農會非常感謝你這樣好不好我昨天才去做談的啊好不好加油謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:50:00.961000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:50:01.926000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，請陳部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T11:50:01.926000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T11:50:02.926000+08:00","text":"請陳部長。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:50:02.926000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T11:50:03.926000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:50:01.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:50:37.752000+08:00","text":"部長，我想呼應一下陳亭妃委員，有關老農津貼的排富條款是不分朝野大家都想要為老農爭取，因為現行這些規範的確對老農非常不公平，請部長再明確的表達一下，針對排富條款要放寬、要提高、要鬆綁的部分，您的態度為何呢？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:50:38.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:50:55.025000+08:00","text":"基本上，在上上個會期吧，我們立法院有一個討論，後續我們就提出一個當時農委會的版本，在那個版本裡面，我們也支持排富條款做適度的放寬。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:50:55.025000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:50:57.366000+08:00","text":"大概會放寬到什麼程度呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:50:58.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:04.252000+08:00","text":"在還沒有經過行政院確認同意之前，我們不適合說放寬到多少。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:05.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:12.029000+08:00","text":"但是你覺得有可能會符合一般老農的期待嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:12.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:24.573000+08:00","text":"我不知道，因為每個人的期待可能不一樣，但是基本上很多委員所提到，要根據物調做調整，我們大概也是參考這樣的調整方式去設計。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:24.933000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:26.574000+08:00","text":"大概多久可以把這個決定公布呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:26.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:37.517000+08:00","text":"我們部會提出一個建議，最主要是需要一些經費，所以我們必須獲得行政院的支持。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:38.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:40.277000+08:00","text":"你的意思是說……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:40.277000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:41.778000+08:00","text":"經費的部分一定要行政院支持。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:42.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:44.818000+08:00","text":"但放寬不需要經費啊！沒有……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:45.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:47.819000+08:00","text":"你是說放寬之後會增加的部分的經費？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:47.819000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:49.739000+08:00","text":"一定會增加經費嘛！瞭解。","quality":0.1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:49.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:53.700000+08:00","text":"這個部分一定要得到行政院的支持，所以我們一定……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:53.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:51:55.881000+08:00","text":"你們有試算過大概會增加多少嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:51:57.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:52:01.950000+08:00","text":"我們現在試算大概30億左右。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:52:02.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:52:05.731000+08:00","text":"大概30億左右，那可以幫助非常多的老農，所以這個要請部長要據理力爭，為我們的農民發聲，尤其是為臺灣付出一輩子的老農，我覺得非常需要部長幫他們說幾句話。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:52:05.791000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:52:43.584000+08:00","text":"前陣子因為低溫的影響，導致雲林縣包括雲林以南的荔枝、酪梨等的結果率不佳，經縣府爭取天然災害救助之後，農業部也已經公告了，這一點我必須要代表農民給農業部肯定，非常迅速處理。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:52:44.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:52:57.390000+08:00","text":"但是接著還有另外一個嚴峻的問題，就是柑橘類果樹到目前為止普遍也是結果率偏低，不曉得部長知不知道這件事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:52:58.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:14.213000+08:00","text":"我跟委員說明一下，這些多年生的果樹從開花到結果，像荔枝是花開得很漂亮，但是它結果率不好，同樣的我們觀察到結果必須確認的時候，我們就確認了，所以就很快的開了。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:15.074000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:23.795000+08:00","text":"再說柑橘類，它一樣是會先開花，然後結果時那個生理的落果情況是怎麼樣，這個可能還要再觀察一段時間。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:23.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:24.576000+08:00","text":"大概多久呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:25.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:28.608000+08:00","text":"大概6月底到7月中。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:29.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:34.231000+08:00","text":"目前我收到的消息，我直接問農業部是跟我說6月中下旬、中下旬。是啊！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:34.231000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T11:53:36.292000+08:00","text":"我們傾向6月底左右。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:53:36.292000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:04.073000+08:00","text":"我們是希望越快越好，因為這些農民其實是非常焦躁不安的，很擔心自己一整年的努力就要付諸流水了，他們現在非常的焦急，希望農業部趕快啟動四方會勘，趕快去現場看，以解決他們的焦急，讓他們可以得到應有的協助，這一點請部長多多加油，要儘速，不要等到7月，我覺得7月太久了吧！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:04.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:08.677000+08:00","text":"現在因為天候的關係，可以去看我們一定立即第一時間就去看，不會故意拖。","quality":0.742},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:10.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:21.143000+08:00","text":"一定要請部長要求一下他們，要儘速的處理，不要說等、等、等，等到農民都已經沒有希望了，會感覺無望的，對不對？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:21.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:31.787000+08:00","text":"另外，上個禮拜，本席有向您追蹤季節性移工，就是農業移工新制的問題。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:32.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:37.729000+08:00","text":"農業移工是有季節性需求問題，如果申請之後還要向勞動部進行維持90天的審查，可能早就錯過生長跟採收的季節，徒增農民的困擾。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:54:37.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:54:58.837000+08:00","text":"部長上個禮拜有答應會親自跟勞動部洪部長談，然後把農業移工拉出來單獨審查，不曉得談的結果如何呢？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:00.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:09.241000+08:00","text":"上次您問了以後的第二天吧，召開院會時剛好勞動部長就坐在我旁邊，我就親自跟他講了。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:11.302000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:16.386000+08:00","text":"第一個部分，就規定而言，他們是7天加7天，再加一個審查期。沒錯。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:18.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:45.355000+08:00","text":"他們會以更簡化的方式，然後同樣的農業部也有責任，農業部在第一線審查的時候，以現在來講，我們農糧署在處理大概是3個禮拜到4個禮拜，甚至於再加上前面作業的話，可能要到1個月，我也希望我們農業部本身在初核時也要簡化流程，那勞動部在審查時也簡化，這樣時間上就可以有機會去壓縮。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:47.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:57.734000+08:00","text":"對，這就是本席要講的，本席也問了勞動部，勞動部的意思是他們好像是15天以內。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:57.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:55:58.315000+08:00","text":"7天加7天。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:55:58.655000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:05.661000+08:00","text":"對，他們是說15天以內可以，那如果假設90天，扣除勞動部的15天，等於是農業部一個部會就要審查六十幾天耶！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:09.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:23.504000+08:00","text":"我也曾經查過，我們農業部現在平均的審查大概是1個月到1個半月，4個禮拜到6個禮拜，但是勞動部那邊的7加7也不會那麼快，因為沒有算行政流程及最後會議的審查時間。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:25.386000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:35.353000+08:00","text":"所以希望就農業部的部分，其實部長已經很迅速的跟勞動部溝通了，是不是農業部內部也自我要求一下？","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:35.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:36.794000+08:00","text":"我剛才說的我們內部也會要加快。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:36.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:39.336000+08:00","text":"要減化這個流程。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:39.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:46.701000+08:00","text":"勞動部有一部分所提供的資訊，我們還要再check一下，理論上是7加7天，但是還有一些審查流程……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:46.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:56:57.269000+08:00","text":"還有一些特殊的，我也希望如果有什麼需要調整的部分，要儘速的趕快去解決，儘量簡化。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:56:57.469000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:00.232000+08:00","text":"我們跟勞動部大概溝通無礙，我想我們會一起努力。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:01.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:14.203000+08:00","text":"謝謝，這一點也請部長繼續幫我們農民追蹤，因為很多需要移工的農民，大家都非常的關心，尤其因為可以從1.2萬名的移工增加到2萬名，我想對於整體臺灣農業的幫助是非常大。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:18.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:57:51.425000+08:00","text":"接下來本席想要請問有關於進口豬肉含瘦肉精的事情，前陣子連續三批的豬肉都驗出有萊克多巴胺，針對這樣子的食安警訊，食藥署卻表示說不會再提高抽樣的比率，也拒絕公布流向，導致有很多國內的豬農很憤慨，無法理解為什麼政府會這麼的雙標，面對進口的豬肉可以這麼寬容、這麼低調，對於國內的養豬產業只要一有違規，就會立即加強查核，然後嚴格開罰。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:57:51.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:09.432000+08:00","text":"這不但讓豬農覺得是雙標到極點，也覺得被犧牲、被忽視，甚至我們一般的消費者也覺得很無奈，這樣子的話，假設流入校園怎麼辦呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:09.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:11.673000+08:00","text":"他們如果不小心買到怎麼辦呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:12.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:17.216000+08:00","text":"所以我也很希望部長可以去理解我們豬農的心聲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:17.897000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:27.802000+08:00","text":"農業部也一直強調要守護臺灣的農業，是不是部長也要跟食藥署包括衛福部來表達一下你的立場？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:28.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:58:40.116000+08:00","text":"基本上，農業部的立場就是要確保我們國內的豬產業能夠持續發展，這是非常重要的，至於進口的豬肉是由衛福部主管，我在這邊也要做一個說明。","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:58:40.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:00.532000+08:00","text":"其實衛福部在邊境把關的部分，農業部是防疫的部分，他們是檢疫的部分，能夠讓它進來一定是合於國家的標準，沒有說不合於國家的標準，所以有一些誤解我覺得必須要澄清，但是以農業部來講，我們一定讓我們國內的豬肉更有品牌、更有市場區隔。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:02.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:05.475000+08:00","text":"本席想要請教，您知道現在食藥署針對豬肉抽樣的比例是多少嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:05.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:06.536000+08:00","text":"要看不同的國家。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:06.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:06.816000+08:00","text":"差不多是2%至10%。對。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:06.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:07.097000+08:00","text":"那您覺得這樣足夠嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:17.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:24.249000+08:00","text":"就我所了解，就以防疫的角度，因為我對他們查驗的不是很清楚，那海關的部分……","quality":0.906},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:24.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:36.114000+08:00","text":"當初要讓萊豬進口的時候，那時候農委會也有說一定是逐批抽樣，那到底是什麼原因降到連10%都不到的標準呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:36.574000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:37.995000+08:00","text":"本來是說每一批都要抽。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:38.935000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:43.218000+08:00","text":"我覺得查驗的部分不應該是農業部來發言，應該是查驗的機關。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:43.999000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T11:59:55.106000+08:00","text":"我知道，但是當初是你們的立場，你們跟我們的鄉親講一定會要求他們都要逐批查驗，怎麼現在降到這樣子，農業部一句話也不說呢？","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T11:59:55.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:00.690000+08:00","text":"抽驗的比例跟它的風險是有關聯的，以防疫的角度，如果說……","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:00.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:02.771000+08:00","text":"我想要知道農業部的態度，您認為應不應該恢復逐批檢驗呢？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:07.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:21.149000+08:00","text":"我認為就是所有貨品的防疫檢驗部分會根據它的風險，如果有曾經發生過違規，查驗抽檢的比例就會提高。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:21.309000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:49.439000+08:00","text":"本席向部長提供一個最新的民調數據，消基會針對進口萊豬做了一份民調，調查結果高達90%的消費者在意是否買到瘦肉精的產品；64%的民眾表示說支持肉品應該逐批檢驗；有高達76%的民眾表示不同意販售含萊克多巴胺的肉品。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:49.920000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:00:51.841000+08:00","text":"部長，這就是民意啊，多數人的確是擔心吃到萊豬，也不想要買到萊豬，而且希望恢復逐批檢驗，也希望農業部可以幫他們把這個聲音發出來。","quality":0.965},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:00:51.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:24.297000+08:00","text":"另外，我想要知道的，是不是也要強烈的要求保護臺灣優質的豬肉，大家不喜歡萊豬，肯定就是我們國產豬肉的機會，我們對國產豬肉的標示也一定要清楚，一定要把品牌做出來，讓國產豬肉更受消費者的喜愛。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:27.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:33.683000+08:00","text":"第一個，國產的部分沒問題，我們一定會去加強國產豬的標示，還有一些品牌區隔。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:34.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:35.504000+08:00","text":"但是您剛才講的，我覺得邊境的查驗要回到科學的根據，還有國際的標準……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:35.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:36.345000+08:00","text":"當初是中央政府出來講的啊，講說要逐批檢查啊，怎麼會出爾反爾呢？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:36.345000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:37.345000+08:00","text":"邊境抽驗是用科學根據，而不能用民意來處理！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:36.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:52.837000+08:00","text":"你現在說科學根據，那就逐批檢查才有科學根據啊，逐批檢查之後得出來的數據可以說服大家啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:52.837000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:53.837000+08:00","text":"沒有，我告訴你，所有查驗都有抽檢的比例……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:52.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:53.337000+08:00","text":"你現在是在幫進口商說話嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:53.337000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:54.337000+08:00","text":"我不是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:53.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:54.618000+08:00","text":"你現在是在幫萊克多巴胺的豬肉說話嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:54.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:55.218000+08:00","text":"你不要污衊喔，我覺得……","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:55.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:56.199000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，科學根據是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:56.199000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:57.299000+08:00","text":"你告訴我什麼是科學根據？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:57.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:58.399000+08:00","text":"所有的邊境查驗的比例是根據那個農產品的風險……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:58.399000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:59.399000+08:00","text":"根據什麼？","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:58.399000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:01:58.420000+08:00","text":"什麼風險？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:01:58.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:21.171000+08:00","text":"你現在是在幫進口的萊克多巴胺豬肉說話嗎？","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:21.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:26.078000+08:00","text":"委員，你不要這樣講喔、不要這樣講，我覺得這樣講就是污衊，我沒有針對萊克多巴胺，我是針對防疫的部分喔！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:27.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:29.703000+08:00","text":"沒有，我是好好在跟你說，你支不支持？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:30.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:32.586000+08:00","text":"支不支持應該要逐批檢查？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:32.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:37.849000+08:00","text":"我還是說所有的抽驗要回到科學的根據跟……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:38.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:39.089000+08:00","text":"什麼科學根據？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:39.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:39.689000+08:00","text":"你告訴我！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:41.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:41.850000+08:00","text":"當你的產品如果經常違規……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:41.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:43.510000+08:00","text":"你如果沒有逐批檢查的話，你那個科學根據的數據哪裡來的啊？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:43.630000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:44.390000+08:00","text":"科學有所謂的抽樣的根據……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:44.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:02:44.830000+08:00","text":"那為什麼中央要出爾反爾？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:02:44.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:03:04.657000+08:00","text":"當初不管是衛福部、農業部都說我們一定會逐批檢查，絕對不會讓萊克多巴胺超標的豬肉進口，結果上個月就來個3%。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:03:04.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:03:05.518000+08:00","text":"基本上，部長，我告訴你，豬農……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:03:05.518000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:03:06.518000+08:00","text":"我告訴你，你講的都是衛福部的權責。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:03:05.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:03:06.399000+08:00","text":"對、對，我知道，我也會去問他們，我現在是問你的態度，你支不支持？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:03:06.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:03:08.081000+08:00","text":"豬農對你抱持很高的期待，他們期待的是一個能為他們發聲，替他們爭取公平競爭條件的農業部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:03:08.081000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:03:28.523000+08:00","text":"我想除了剛剛提到的恢復逐批檢查之外，把標示做清楚，然後要怎麼樣支持國產豬的具體措施，部長要能夠幫助他們，而不是在這裡辯護耶！","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:03:28.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:03:46.901000+08:00","text":"沒有，我告訴你，如果消費者對國內的豬肉有信心，我們對任何進口豬肉都不用擔心，所以農業部的重點就是讓我們的國產豬肉……","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:03:46.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:03:55.925000+08:00","text":"是，你要好好把國產豬照顧好之外，我剛才也是只是問你而已，問你支不支持逐批檢查，難道是你可以決定要不要逐批檢查的嗎？防疫……","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:03:55.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:00.788000+08:00","text":"我只是在問你支不支持而已。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:00.788000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:01.788000+08:00","text":"對，我說要依據科學啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:01.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:03.309000+08:00","text":"那你就說你支持就好了嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:03.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:07.072000+08:00","text":"沒有，這跟支不支持沒有關係，是跟科學的根據、跟國際的規範。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:07.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:08.512000+08:00","text":"那你科學根據哪裡來嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:09.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:10.053000+08:00","text":"哪裡來的科學根據？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:10.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:13.315000+08:00","text":"你告訴我，如果你可以說服我，我不是不能被說服的呀！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:13.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:17.498000+08:00","text":"所有的邊境的查驗，各國都有相關的遊戲規則，跟它的風險有關。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:17.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:22.161000+08:00","text":"那為什麼一開始中央政府說會逐批檢查、要百分之百檢查？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:22.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:24.802000+08:00","text":"那是不是在欺騙我們的鄉親，欺騙我們的消費者？是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:27.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:28.164000+08:00","text":"我相信……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:28.164000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:29.164000+08:00","text":"是在欺騙消費者嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:28.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:29.765000+08:00","text":"至少不是我嘴巴講出來的，我不知道……","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:29.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:48.410000+08:00","text":"但是之前的部長、之前的兩個部長都說呀，衛福部部長和農委會主委就說一定會百分之百檢查，那時候的行政院長蘇貞昌也說要百分之百檢查、逐批檢查，那為什麼會出爾反爾呢？","quality":0.945},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:48.430000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:48.630000+08:00","text":"為什麼你要幫他們辯護呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:48.630000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:04:49.630000+08:00","text":"這是衛福部的事情，我沒有辯護啊！","quality":0.071},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:04:48.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:07.866000+08:00","text":"本來本席只是要求你照顧本土豬農，確定他們的品牌、優化他們的品牌，你為什麼要幫他們辯護呢？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:07.866000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:08.866000+08:00","text":"我沒有辯護。","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:08.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:11.668000+08:00","text":"我剛才說的，只是純粹針對防疫的角度，不是查驗喔！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:12.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:16.571000+08:00","text":"防疫的角度要根據風險及科學根據，至於邊境從一百下降到……","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:16.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:17.392000+08:00","text":"你好好說清楚嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:17.412000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:17.472000+08:00","text":"為什麼要幫他們辯護？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:17.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:18.532000+08:00","text":"你不要說我是擁護萊豬或怎麼樣，我覺得你這個就是扣帽子。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:26.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:26.797000+08:00","text":"本席沒有幫你扣帽子，這是剛剛你自己說的。","quality":0.389},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:26.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:26.957000+08:00","text":"你剛才就是這麼說的啊！","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:26.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:27.258000+08:00","text":"本席問你，你是不是在幫他們辯護？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:27.258000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:28.258000+08:00","text":"我是說不能這麼說，這不是辯護，這是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:27.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:27.838000+08:00","text":"然後你又說科學根據，本席就問科學根據在哪裡嘛！","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:27.838000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:28.838000+08:00","text":"有時候就是一個科學根據。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:27.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:28.679000+08:00","text":"本席有沒有要求你要照顧本土豬農？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:28.679000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:28.799000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:28.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:29.339000+08:00","text":"我也承諾一定會，農業部的立場就是這樣做。是嘛！","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:29.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:50.332000+08:00","text":"所以你就好好說明會支持本土豬農就好，為什麼還「五四三」說需要科學根據？","quality":0.581},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:50.332000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:51.332000+08:00","text":"不是，我沒有，你不要用一個疑問句挖洞喔！","quality":0.118},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:50.432000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:51.732000+08:00","text":"如果你不是自己講出這個空間，本席要怎麼扣你帽子？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:05:51.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:05:52.272000+08:00","text":"你剛才沒有幫他們辯護嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:04.357000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:04.918000+08:00","text":"這不叫辯護，這是從事實查驗……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:05.078000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:05.298000+08:00","text":"本席問你願不願意幫他們說出來，應該要恢復逐批檢查。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:05.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:05.338000+08:00","text":"沒有所謂的願不願意，這要……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:05.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:05.658000+08:00","text":"願不願意幫豬農呼籲？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:05.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:20.773000+08:00","text":"幫消費者呼籲衛福部應該恢復逐批檢查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:20.773000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:21.773000+08:00","text":"這個要根據……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:21.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:23.174000+08:00","text":"為什麼之前的部長可以說？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:23.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:24.535000+08:00","text":"為什麼之前的院長可以說？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:24.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:24.655000+08:00","text":"你現在卻不願意說。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:24.655000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:25.655000+08:00","text":"我是用專業角度回答你的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:24.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:25.115000+08:00","text":"你如果不願意說，就有幫他們辯護的嫌疑。","quality":0.412},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:25.115000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:26.115000+08:00","text":"我用專業回答你的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:25.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:26.756000+08:00","text":"那你就有幫他們辯護的嫌疑，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:26.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:27.476000+08:00","text":"本席沒有扣你帽子，本席只是懷疑，這樣可以嗎？","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:27.476000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:28.476000+08:00","text":"我用專業回答你的問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:27.476000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:27.696000+08:00","text":"你的專業是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:43.362000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:46.967000+08:00","text":"我的專業就是所有的檢驗一定要有科學根據。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:47.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:47.848000+08:00","text":"你的科學根據是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:47.868000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.189000+08:00","text":"如果沒有逐批檢查，依據從哪裡來？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.389000+08:00","text":"你怎麼算出風險？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.609000+08:00","text":"委員，你知不知道所有，東西都有取樣的標準？","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.729000+08:00","text":"是，本席當然知道。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.729000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:06:49.729000+08:00","text":"所以不是所有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:06:48.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:00.744000+08:00","text":"但是你要體會豬農的心情，他們覺得這是雙標，因為你們對他們的檢查是那麼苛刻。","quality":0.794},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:00.744000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:01.744000+08:00","text":"政府一定會做嚴格的把關，也一定要有一個抽驗的標準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:01.304000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:02.205000+08:00","text":"好，你說這句話，本席可以接受。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:02.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:06.629000+08:00","text":"但是你在那邊唬爛說抽檢2%至10%是因為有科學標準，這點本席不接受。","quality":0.69},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:07.970000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:08.530000+08:00","text":"2%至10%是你說的喔！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:17.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:18.157000+08:00","text":"本席不接受。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:18.657000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:21.679000+08:00","text":"本席是問你，現在只抽檢2%至10%，你能不能接受？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:21.679000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:22.679000+08:00","text":"這是衛福部……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:22.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:26.401000+08:00","text":"然後本席問你是不是能夠逐批檢查，你就巴拉巴拉巴拉。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:26.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:28.882000+08:00","text":"對，我說要根據科學依據。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:29.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:32.223000+08:00","text":"我沒有巴拉巴拉巴拉，我是說要根據科學依據。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:32.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:33.123000+08:00","text":"科學依據是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:33.123000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:33.423000+08:00","text":"請你說服本席。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:34.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:34.984000+08:00","text":"科學依據就是風險的高低啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:35.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:36.465000+08:00","text":"多大的風險？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:36.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:37.345000+08:00","text":"你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:37.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:38.726000+08:00","text":"你不知道還要說服本席！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:39.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:39.866000+08:00","text":"你怎麼知道我不知道？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:40.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:40.926000+08:00","text":"那你說。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:41.627000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:42.627000+08:00","text":"所有東西都有它的風險，如果曾經……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:42.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:42.807000+08:00","text":"具體內容是什麼？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:42.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:43.047000+08:00","text":"請你告訴本席具體內容嘛！","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:43.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:48.890000+08:00","text":"我說一個簡單的例子，一個農產品如果進口……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:49.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:51.412000+08:00","text":"本席現在是和你說萊豬，你就用萊豬為例。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:52.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:07:56.155000+08:00","text":"萊豬到目前為止都沒有驗出超標嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:07:57.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:00.438000+08:00","text":"它有含萊克多巴胺，但是它符合國內的標準嘛！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:03.380000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:05.762000+08:00","text":"所以你也支持不用公開流向？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:05.762000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:06.973000+08:00","text":"那是衛福部的權責。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:06.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:07.233000+08:00","text":"所以你也支持嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:07.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:08.014000+08:00","text":"本席現在是問你嘛！","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:08.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:08.614000+08:00","text":"本席是問農業部的立場。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:08.614000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:09.614000+08:00","text":"我們是農業部，不是衛福部，那是衛福部的權責。對啊！","quality":0.095},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:09.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:09.535000+08:00","text":"那農業部的立場是什麼？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:09.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:09.855000+08:00","text":"你沒有個人的想法嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:09.855000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:10.855000+08:00","text":"農業部的立場就是以防疫的角度來說，我們是用科學根據。","quality":0.042},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:09.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:25.146000+08:00","text":"本席現在就告訴你，國家是一體的，我們不希望農業部和衛福部兩個部會有雙重標準。","quality":0.771},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:25.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:26.406000+08:00","text":"本席希望您能夠落實照顧豬農，優化臺灣國內的產品，這一點你可以做到嗎？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:26.406000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:27.406000+08:00","text":"這個沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:27.406000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:28.406000+08:00","text":"照顧國內的產業絕對沒問題，我們一定會努力。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:26.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:26.767000+08:00","text":"這一點麻煩部長落實，這樣可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:26.767000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:44.816000+08:00","text":"好，可以。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:44.816000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:46.997000+08:00","text":"不要再幫衛福部辯護了，不需要！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:46.997000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:47.997000+08:00","text":"我沒有，我們只是說科學根據。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:47.138000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:48.338000+08:00","text":"你不需要幫他們解釋，也不需要幫他們辯護，他們的部分，本席自己會問。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:48.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:48.999000+08:00","text":"本席問你這個部分，你為什麼要幫他們回答呢？","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:49.039000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:49.399000+08:00","text":"我回答的是我們防疫的部分。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:49.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:50.299000+08:00","text":"你好好關心豬農，本席相信豬農會非常感謝你，這樣好不好？會的。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳部長駿季","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:50.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:50.479000+08:00","text":"我昨天才去豬場座談。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員嘉郡","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:50.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:50.800000+08:00","text":"加油，好不好？謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-05-28T12:08:51.300000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-05-28T12:08:54.157143+08:00","text":"現在請蔡易餘委員詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":956,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（11時50分）謝謝主席，請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長，我想呼應一下陳亭妃委員，有關老農津貼的排富條款是不分朝野大家都想要為老農爭取，因為現行這些規範的確對老農非常不公平，請部長再明確的表達一下，針對排富條款要放寬、要提高、要鬆綁的部分，您的態度為何呢？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上，在上上個會期吧，我們立法院有一個討論，後續我們就提出一個當時農委會的版本，在那個版本裡面，我們也支持排富條款做適度的放寬。"],["張委員嘉郡：大概會放寬到什麼程度呢？"],["陳部長駿季：在還沒有經過行政院確認同意之前，我們不適合說放寬到多少。"],["張委員嘉郡：但是你覺得有可能會符合一般老農的期待嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我不知道，因為每個人的期待可能不一樣，但是基本上很多委員所提到，要根據物調做調整，我們大概也是參考這樣的調整方式去設計。"],["張委員嘉郡：大概多久可以把這個決定公布呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我們部會提出一個建議，最主要是需要一些經費，所以我們必須獲得行政院的支持。"],["張委員嘉郡：你的意思是說……"],["陳部長駿季：經費的部分一定要行政院支持。"],["張委員嘉郡：但放寬不需要經費啊！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有……"],["張委員嘉郡：你是說放寬之後會增加的部分的經費？"],["陳部長駿季：一定會增加經費嘛！"],["張委員嘉郡：瞭解。"],["陳部長駿季：這個部分一定要得到行政院的支持，所以我們一定……"],["張委員嘉郡：你們有試算過大概會增加多少嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在試算大概30億左右。"],["張委員嘉郡：大概30億左右，那可以幫助非常多的老農，所以這個要請部長要據理力爭，為我們的農民發聲，尤其是為臺灣付出一輩子的老農，我覺得非常需要部長幫他們說幾句話。","前陣子因為低溫的影響，導致雲林縣包括雲林以南的荔枝、酪梨等的結果率不佳，經縣府爭取天然災害救助之後，農業部也已經公告了，這一點我必須要代表農民給農業部肯定，非常迅速處理。但是接著還有另外一個嚴峻的問題，就是柑橘類果樹到目前為止普遍也是結果率偏低，不曉得部長知不知道這件事情？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明一下，這些多年生的果樹從開花到結果，像荔枝是花開得很漂亮，但是它結果率不好，同樣的我們觀察到結果必須確認的時候，我們就確認了，所以就很快的開了。再說柑橘類，它一樣是會先開花，然後結果時那個生理的落果情況是怎麼樣，這個可能還要再觀察一段時間。"],["張委員嘉郡：大概多久呢？"],["陳部長駿季：大概6月底到7月中。"],["張委員嘉郡：目前我收到的消息，我直接問農業部是跟我說6月中下旬、中下旬。"],["陳部長駿季：是啊！我們傾向6月底左右。"],["張委員嘉郡：我們是希望越快越好，因為這些農民其實是非常焦躁不安的，很擔心自己一整年的努力就要付諸流水了，他們現在非常的焦急，希望農業部趕快啟動四方會勘，趕快去現場看，以解決他們的焦急，讓他們可以得到應有的協助，這一點請部長多多加油，要儘速，不要等到7月，我覺得7月太久了吧！"],["陳部長駿季：現在因為天候的關係，可以去看我們一定立即第一時間就去看，不會故意拖。"],["張委員嘉郡：一定要請部長要求一下他們，要儘速的處理，不要說等、等、等，等到農民都已經沒有希望了，會感覺無望的，對不對？","另外，上個禮拜，本席有向您追蹤季節性移工，就是農業移工新制的問題。農業移工是有季節性需求問題，如果申請之後還要向勞動部進行維持90天的審查，可能早就錯過生長跟採收的季節，徒增農民的困擾。部長上個禮拜有答應會親自跟勞動部洪部長談，然後把農業移工拉出來單獨審查，不曉得談的結果如何呢？"],["陳部長駿季：上次您問了以後的第二天吧，召開院會時剛好勞動部長就坐在我旁邊，我就親自跟他講了。第一個部分，就規定而言，他們是7天加7天，再加一個審查期。"],["張委員嘉郡：沒錯。"],["陳部長駿季：他們會以更簡化的方式，然後同樣的農業部也有責任，農業部在第一線審查的時候，以現在來講，我們農糧署在處理大概是3個禮拜到4個禮拜，甚至於再加上前面作業的話，可能要到1個月，我也希望我們農業部本身在初核時也要簡化流程，那勞動部在審查時也簡化，這樣時間上就可以有機會去壓縮。"],["張委員嘉郡：對，這就是本席要講的，本席也問了勞動部，勞動部的意思是他們好像是15天以內。"],["陳部長駿季：7天加7天。"],["張委員嘉郡：對，他們是說15天以內可以，那如果假設90天，扣除勞動部的15天，等於是農業部一個部會就要審查六十幾天耶！"],["陳部長駿季：我也曾經查過，我們農業部現在平均的審查大概是1個月到1個半月，4個禮拜到6個禮拜，但是勞動部那邊的7加7也不會那麼快，因為沒有算行政流程及最後會議的審查時間。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以希望就農業部的部分，其實部長已經很迅速的跟勞動部溝通了，是不是農業部內部也自我要求一下？"],["陳部長駿季：我剛才說的我們內部也會要加快。"],["張委員嘉郡：要減化這個流程。"],["陳部長駿季：勞動部有一部分所提供的資訊，我們還要再check一下，理論上是7加7天，但是還有一些審查流程……"],["張委員嘉郡：還有一些特殊的，我也希望如果有什麼需要調整的部分，要儘速的趕快去解決，儘量簡化。"],["陳部長駿季：我們跟勞動部大概溝通無礙，我想我們會一起努力。"],["張委員嘉郡：謝謝，這一點也請部長繼續幫我們農民追蹤，因為很多需要移工的農民，大家都非常的關心，尤其因為可以從1.2萬名的移工增加到2萬名，我想對於整體臺灣農業的幫助是非常大。","接下來本席想要請問有關於進口豬肉含瘦肉精的事情，前陣子連續三批的豬肉都驗出有萊克多巴胺，針對這樣子的食安警訊，食藥署卻表示說不會再提高抽樣的比率，也拒絕公布流向，導致有很多國內的豬農很憤慨，無法理解為什麼政府會這麼的雙標，面對進口的豬肉可以這麼寬容、這麼低調，對於國內的養豬產業只要一有違規，就會立即加強查核，然後嚴格開罰。這不但讓豬農覺得是雙標到極點，也覺得被犧牲、被忽視，甚至我們一般的消費者也覺得很無奈，這樣子的話，假設流入校園怎麼辦呢？他們如果不小心買到怎麼辦呢？所以我也很希望部長可以去理解我們豬農的心聲。農業部也一直強調要守護臺灣的農業，是不是部長也要跟食藥署包括衛福部來表達一下你的立場？"],["陳部長駿季：基本上，農業部的立場就是要確保我們國內的豬產業能夠持續發展，這是非常重要的，至於進口的豬肉是由衛福部主管，我在這邊也要做一個說明。其實衛福部在邊境把關的部分，農業部是防疫的部分，他們是檢疫的部分，能夠讓它進來一定是合於國家的標準，沒有說不合於國家的標準，所以有一些誤解我覺得必須要澄清，但是以農業部來講，我們一定讓我們國內的豬肉更有品牌、更有市場區隔。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席想要請教，您知道現在食藥署針對豬肉抽樣的比例是多少嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：要看不同的國家。"],["張委員嘉郡：差不多是2%至10%。"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["張委員嘉郡：那您覺得這樣足夠嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：就我所了解，就以防疫的角度，因為我對他們查驗的不是很清楚，那海關的部分……"],["張委員嘉郡：當初要讓萊豬進口的時候，那時候農委會也有說一定是逐批抽樣，那到底是什麼原因降到連10%都不到的標準呢？本來是說每一批都要抽。"],["陳部長駿季：我覺得查驗的部分不應該是農業部來發言，應該是查驗的機關。"],["張委員嘉郡：我知道，但是當初是你們的立場，你們跟我們的鄉親講一定會要求他們都要逐批查驗，怎麼現在降到這樣子，農業部一句話也不說呢？"],["陳部長駿季：抽驗的比例跟它的風險是有關聯的，以防疫的角度，如果說……"],["張委員嘉郡：我想要知道農業部的態度，您認為應不應該恢復逐批檢驗呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我認為就是所有貨品的防疫檢驗部分會根據它的風險，如果有曾經發生過違規，查驗抽檢的比例就會提高。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席向部長提供一個最新的民調數據，消基會針對進口萊豬做了一份民調，調查結果高達90%的消費者在意是否買到瘦肉精的產品；64%的民眾表示說支持肉品應該逐批檢驗；有高達76%的民眾表示不同意販售含萊克多巴胺的肉品。部長，這就是民意啊，多數人的確是擔心吃到萊豬，也不想要買到萊豬，而且希望恢復逐批檢驗，也希望農業部可以幫他們把這個聲音發出來。另外，我想要知道的，是不是也要強烈的要求保護臺灣優質的豬肉，大家不喜歡萊豬，肯定就是我們國產豬肉的機會，我們對國產豬肉的標示也一定要清楚，一定要把品牌做出來，讓國產豬肉更受消費者的喜愛。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個，國產的部分沒問題，我們一定會去加強國產豬的標示，還有一些品牌區隔。但是您剛才講的，我覺得邊境的查驗要回到科學的根據，還有國際的標準……"],["張委員嘉郡：當初是中央政府出來講的啊，講說要逐批檢查啊，怎麼會出爾反爾呢？"],["陳部長駿季：邊境抽驗是用科學根據，而不能用民意來處理！"],["張委員嘉郡：你現在說科學根據，那就逐批檢查才有科學根據啊，逐批檢查之後得出來的數據可以說服大家啊！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我告訴你，所有查驗都有抽檢的比例……"],["張委員嘉郡：你現在是在幫進口商說話嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我不是……"],["張委員嘉郡：你現在是在幫萊克多巴胺的豬肉說話嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：你不要污衊喔，我覺得……"],["張委員嘉郡：我的意思是，科學根據是什麼？你告訴我什麼是科學根據？"],["陳部長駿季：所有的邊境查驗的比例是根據那個農產品的風險……"],["張委員嘉郡：根據什麼？什麼風險？你現在是在幫進口的萊克多巴胺豬肉說話嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：委員，你不要這樣講喔、不要這樣講，我覺得這樣講就是污衊，我沒有針對萊克多巴胺，我是針對防疫的部分喔！"],["張委員嘉郡：沒有，我是好好在跟你說，你支不支持？支不支持應該要逐批檢查？"],["陳部長駿季：我還是說所有的抽驗要回到科學的根據跟……"],["張委員嘉郡：什麼科學根據？你告訴我！"],["陳部長駿季：當你的產品如果經常違規……"],["張委員嘉郡：你如果沒有逐批檢查的話，你那個科學根據的數據哪裡來的啊？"],["陳部長駿季：科學有所謂的抽樣的根據……"],["張委員嘉郡：那為什麼中央要出爾反爾？當初不管是衛福部、農業部都說我們一定會逐批檢查，絕對不會讓萊克多巴胺超標的豬肉進口，結果上個月就來個3%。基本上，部長，我告訴你，豬農……"],["陳部長駿季：我告訴你，你講的都是衛福部的權責。"],["張委員嘉郡：對、對，我知道，我也會去問他們，我現在是問你的態度，你支不支持？豬農對你抱持很高的期待，他們期待的是一個能為他們發聲，替他們爭取公平競爭條件的農業部長。我想除了剛剛提到的恢復逐批檢查之外，把標示做清楚，然後要怎麼樣支持國產豬的具體措施，部長要能夠幫助他們，而不是在這裡辯護耶！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我告訴你，如果消費者對國內的豬肉有信心，我們對任何進口豬肉都不用擔心，所以農業部的重點就是讓我們的國產豬肉……"],["張委員嘉郡：是，你要好好把國產豬照顧好之外，我剛才也是只是問你而已，問你支不支持逐批檢查，難道是你可以決定要不要逐批檢查的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：防疫……"],["張委員嘉郡：我只是在問你支不支持而已。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我說要依據科學啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：那你就說你支持就好了嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，這跟支不支持沒有關係，是跟科學的根據、跟國際的規範。"],["張委員嘉郡：那你科學根據哪裡來嘛？哪裡來的科學根據？你告訴我，如果你可以說服我，我不是不能被說服的呀！"],["陳部長駿季：所有的邊境的查驗，各國都有相關的遊戲規則，跟它的風險有關。"],["張委員嘉郡：那為什麼一開始中央政府說會逐批檢查、要百分之百檢查？那是不是在欺騙我們的鄉親，欺騙我們的消費者？是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我相信……"],["張委員嘉郡：是在欺騙消費者嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：至少不是我嘴巴講出來的，我不知道……"],["張委員嘉郡：但是之前的部長、之前的兩個部長都說呀，衛福部部長和農委會主委就說一定會百分之百檢查，那時候的行政院長蘇貞昌也說要百分之百檢查、逐批檢查，那為什麼會出爾反爾呢？為什麼你要幫他們辯護呢？"],["陳部長駿季：這是衛福部的事情，我沒有辯護啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：本來本席只是要求你照顧本土豬農，確定他們的品牌、優化他們的品牌，你為什麼要幫他們辯護呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我沒有辯護。我剛才說的，只是純粹針對防疫的角度，不是查驗喔！防疫的角度要根據風險及科學根據，至於邊境從一百下降到……"],["張委員嘉郡：你好好說清楚嘛！為什麼要幫他們辯護？"],["陳部長駿季：你不要說我是擁護萊豬或怎麼樣，我覺得你這個就是扣帽子。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席沒有幫你扣帽子，這是剛剛你自己說的。"],["陳部長駿季：你剛才就是這麼說的啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：本席問你，你是不是在幫他們辯護？"],["陳部長駿季：我是說不能這麼說，這不是辯護，這是……"],["張委員嘉郡：然後你又說科學根據，本席就問科學根據在哪裡嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：有時候就是一個科學根據。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席有沒有要求你要照顧本土豬農？有沒有？"],["陳部長駿季：我也承諾一定會，農業部的立場就是這樣做。"],["張委員嘉郡：是嘛！所以你就好好說明會支持本土豬農就好，為什麼還「五四三」說需要科學根據？"],["陳部長駿季：不是，我沒有，你不要用一個疑問句挖洞喔！"],["張委員嘉郡：如果你不是自己講出這個空間，本席要怎麼扣你帽子？你剛才沒有幫他們辯護嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這不叫辯護，這是從事實查驗……"],["張委員嘉郡：本席問你願不願意幫他們說出來，應該要恢復逐批檢查。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有所謂的願不願意，這要……"],["張委員嘉郡：願不願意幫豬農呼籲？幫消費者呼籲衛福部應該恢復逐批檢查。"],["陳部長駿季：這個要根據……"],["張委員嘉郡：為什麼之前的部長可以說？為什麼之前的院長可以說？你現在卻不願意說。"],["陳部長駿季：我是用專業角度回答你的問題。"],["張委員嘉郡：你如果不願意說，就有幫他們辯護的嫌疑。"],["陳部長駿季：我用專業回答你的問題。"],["張委員嘉郡：那你就有幫他們辯護的嫌疑，這樣可以嗎？本席沒有扣你帽子，本席只是懷疑，這樣可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我用專業回答你的問題。"],["張委員嘉郡：你的專業是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：我的專業就是所有的檢驗一定要有科學根據。"],["張委員嘉郡：你的科學根據是什麼？如果沒有逐批檢查，依據從哪裡來？你怎麼算出風險？"],["陳部長駿季：委員，你知不知道所有，東西都有取樣的標準？"],["張委員嘉郡：是，本席當然知道。"],["陳部長駿季：所以不是所有……"],["張委員嘉郡：但是你要體會豬農的心情，他們覺得這是雙標，因為你們對他們的檢查是那麼苛刻。"],["陳部長駿季：政府一定會做嚴格的把關，也一定要有一個抽驗的標準。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，你說這句話，本席可以接受。但是你在那邊唬爛說抽檢2%至10%是因為有科學標準，這點本席不接受。"],["陳部長駿季：2%至10%是你說的喔！"],["張委員嘉郡：本席不接受。本席是問你，現在只抽檢2%至10%，你能不能接受？"],["陳部長駿季：這是衛福部……"],["張委員嘉郡：然後本席問你是不是能夠逐批檢查，你就巴拉巴拉巴拉。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我說要根據科學依據。我沒有巴拉巴拉巴拉，我是說要根據科學依據。"],["張委員嘉郡：科學依據是什麼？請你說服本席。"],["陳部長駿季：科學依據就是風險的高低啊！"],["張委員嘉郡：多大的風險？你知道嗎？你不知道還要說服本席！"],["陳部長駿季：你怎麼知道我不知道？"],["張委員嘉郡：那你說。"],["陳部長駿季：所有東西都有它的風險，如果曾經……"],["張委員嘉郡：具體內容是什麼？請你告訴本席具體內容嘛！"],["陳部長駿季：我說一個簡單的例子，一個農產品如果進口……"],["張委員嘉郡：本席現在是和你說萊豬，你就用萊豬為例。"],["陳部長駿季：萊豬到目前為止都沒有驗出超標嘛！它有含萊克多巴胺，但是它符合國內的標準嘛！"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你也支持不用公開流向？"],["陳部長駿季：那是衛福部的權責。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你也支持嗎？本席現在是問你嘛！本席是問農業部的立場。"],["陳部長駿季：我們是農業部，不是衛福部，那是衛福部的權責。"],["張委員嘉郡：對啊！那農業部的立場是什麼？你沒有個人的想法嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：農業部的立場就是以防疫的角度來說，我們是用科學根據。"],["張委員嘉郡：本席現在就告訴你，國家是一體的，我們不希望農業部和衛福部兩個部會有雙重標準。本席希望您能夠落實照顧豬農，優化臺灣國內的產品，這一點你可以做到嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這個沒問題。照顧國內的產業絕對沒問題，我們一定會努力。"],["張委員嘉郡：這一點麻煩部長落實，這樣可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：好，可以。"],["張委員嘉郡：不要再幫衛福部辯護了，不需要！"],["陳部長駿季：我沒有，我們只是說科學根據。"],["張委員嘉郡：你不需要幫他們解釋，也不需要幫他們辯護，他們的部分，本席自己會問。本席問你這個部分，你為什麼要幫他們回答呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我回答的是我們防疫的部分。"],["張委員嘉郡：你好好關心豬農，本席相信豬農會非常感謝你，這樣好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：會的。我昨天才去豬場座談。"],["張委員嘉郡：加油，好不好？謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝。"],["主席：現在請蔡易餘委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":262,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-15","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","鄭正鈐","林岱樺","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","賴瑞隆","邱志偉","郭國文","陳亭妃","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","林俊憲","呂玉玲"],"page_start":195,"meetingDate":["2025-05-28"],"gazette_id":"1145401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1145401_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第15次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"審查：一、本院委員謝衣鳯等16人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案；二、本院\n委員郭國文等17人擬具「農民退休儲金條例第七條條文修正草案」案（詢答）","agenda_id":"1145401_00005"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}