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但是我剛講了"},{"start":276.533,"end":304.561,"text":"委員我們過去也有專任的董事長他是給付薪水的好那現在你們黃宗明你們給付他多少薪水一個月董事會的薪酬委員會有沒有超過院長有沒有超過現在的五院的院長薪水沒有我們本來就有限制不能夠超過那個部會首長那現在是多少呢部會首長沒有超過部會首長是"},{"start":306.111,"end":322.902,"text":"我要講的是你們現在未來再禁用已經藏了這麼多資社會我覺得不應該淪落成一個政治性酬庸的地方而且怎麼如此的集中全部都是過去台單市政府任職的"},{"start":323.857,"end":333.661,"text":"我不是說在台南市政府認知不好但是我剛才講了這麼多如此的集中合理嗎我們還要發展什麼樣AI產業這次會未來對於我們AI產業的發展還能有什麼貢獻呢好時間暫停一下對不起我想請速發部部長利用一點點時間好不好"},{"start":347.321,"end":367.863,"text":"部長有一個也很重要的問題剛才大家講了很多中華電信的數位憑證不被認證但是最近還發生了一個就是很多公民營銀行通通拒絕暫停使用自然人民證自然人民證使用的其實非常廣泛很多人拿來報稅"},{"start":370.213,"end":384.298,"text":"很多人拿來去做銀行的開戶數位帳戶那所以現在連公民銀行這還包含我們的公股銀行喔都對自然人憑證是暫停使用請問一下這個你們有什麼"},{"start":384.978,"end":413.739,"text":"這個不是對自然憑證不信任而是說我們過去有很多人把自然憑證跟密碼交給詐騙集團所以他們用自然憑證跟密碼去開的這個詐騙帳戶是因為這樣關係所以暫時把它停止但是現在要求就是說以後你要開戶你要用video就是說確定是那個人不要說假的不是說不要借給人家所以重點是在當以前民眾把自然憑證跟密碼交給詐騙集團這件事情造成這個這個目前影響暫停的理由"},{"start":414.079,"end":433.971,"text":"那但是他是全面暫停啊部分銀行暫停但是我沒有我的意思這些銀行就是全面暫停自然人民銀行暫停因為有很多人把自然憑證借給詐騙集團然後給了帳號密碼給了密碼所以我覺得這個是我們一直在宣傳說自然憑證現在因為他可以開帳可以開那個當然是詐騙行為而因此而變成是"},{"start":434.992,"end":449.264,"text":"現在這麼多銀行暫停使用所以現在有改進措施就是說你要開戶用自然憑證開戶的時候同時要做video conference就是說你要你要在跟銀行的行員還是要面對面的去開戶不能夠只是拿個憑證然後因為現在"},{"start":451.246,"end":453.229,"text":"這就是我們的數位大退步啦因為我們過去你開戶要拿雙憑證然後要拍照但是後來就是有這種數位憑證現在就是又倒退回倒退回我們的時期時代的時候"},{"start":467.746,"end":490.216,"text":"以後會用指紋 比如說FIDO用指紋辨識這可能是我們以後要推動但是以目前的治安憑證就是要確認可能就是看影像有可能要做影像辨識也可以就是說你要確定是那個人用這張卡片才不會說我卡片被別人偷走或者帳號被偷走做一些不法的事情這個是目前遇到的問題不是治安憑證本身的問題所以這個又變成回過頭來還是因為詐騙的關係啊"},{"start":494.258,"end":511.296,"text":"詐騙集團在欺騙在借自然人憑證去開人口戶可是這使得我們很多自然人憑證其他的使用人沒有被詐騙的最後也沒有辦法使用但是還是要有防堵的方式就是現在用影片就是用影像辨識來辨識日本人好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:25:40.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:25:45.881000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我請今天有來的資策會副執行長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-06-18T12:25:45.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:25:59.208000+08:00","text":"請資策會副執行長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副執行長博仁","start":"2025-06-18T12:25:59.208000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-06-18T12:26:00.208000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:26:00.208000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-06-18T12:26:01.208000+08:00","text":"副執行長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:25:59.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:26:03.150000+08:00","text":"今天我們談的題目非常大，就是怎麼推動我們的AI產業。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:26:05.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:26:15.346000+08:00","text":"資策會當年是由李國鼎先生創辦的……今天你們的主管機關經濟部沒有來。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:26:15.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:26:38.471000+08:00","text":"資策會長期以來都聚焦怎麼推進我國資訊產業政策以及促進產業發展，且現在的AI產業也非常重要，但是現在的資策會淪為賴清德總統親信的藏身場所！","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:26:40.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:26:45.715000+08:00","text":"今天執行長也沒有來，您是副執行長。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:26:45.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:26:50.158000+08:00","text":"副執行長，您自己是臺南市政府法制處處長、秘書處處長出身，您的專長是法律吧？是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:26:56.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:27:19.648000+08:00","text":"不是資策會裡不應該有法律相關人才，但是我現在給大家看一看、攤開現在的資策會人事，大家就可以看到這種酬庸有多麼嚴重，而且幾乎都集中在賴清德總統過去任職臺南市政府時代的人馬。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:27:19.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:27:29.065000+08:00","text":"包含你們現在的AI研究院院長，他雖然頂著所謂資管博士的頭銜，但臺灣的資管博士到路上也是一把抓啊！","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:27:30.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:27:31.846000+08:00","text":"他的經歷是什麼呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:27:32.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:27:39.508000+08:00","text":"主要是南臺科大助教，然後就是臺南市政府研考會主委，其他呢？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:27:40.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:27:45.130000+08:00","text":"沒有，沒有其他任何與資策會、資訊產業相關的資歷了。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:27:45.190000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:27:59.574000+08:00","text":"還有更離譜的，叫做吳堂成，他擔任資策會的資深規劃師，結果去年底被抓包最愛看的是政論節目啊！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:00.634000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:28:04.096000+08:00","text":"然後，工作的時候在睡覺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:05.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:28:08.838000+08:00","text":"現在官員裡面也有人一直在睡，只是我看你醒了，就不點名你。","quality":0.64},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:10.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:28:10.498000+08:00","text":"太離譜了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:10.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:28:15+08:00","text":"好幾個委員在質詢，你卻已經睡得不知何年何月了。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:16.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:28:25.164000+08:00","text":"這個吳堂成在工作的時候睡覺，資策會的人看不下去，對外爆料。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:26.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:28:38.546000+08:00","text":"再來更離譜的，有一位官員叫做曾柏瑜，她在參選民進黨新北市議員落選後，去擔任資策會治安科技研究所國際合作總監欸！","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:38.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:28:39.767000+08:00","text":"您可知道她的資歷是什麼、她學什麼的？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:49.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:28:56.093000+08:00","text":"社會學系，出身社會學系，擔任資策會治安科技研究所國際合作總監！","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:28:59.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:29:19.877000+08:00","text":"我想請問一下，關於資策會的黃仲銘董事長，我剛才說了，資策會是李國鼎先生創辦的，歷任部長中有很多位，包含黃仲銘董事長的前一任……他最後很倒楣，本來任期應該到2026年，卻提前讓他走路，只是為了讓黃仲銘當董事長。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:29:19.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:29:31.349000+08:00","text":"前一任叫做李世光，他擔任過經濟部長；在資策會過去的董事長裡面，很多都是在經濟部長卸任之後來擔任資策會董事長。","quality":0.86},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:29:31.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:29:34.353000+08:00","text":"那麼這位黃仲銘董事長有什麼背景呢？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:29:34.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:29:41.562000+08:00","text":"又來了：信賴之友會臺南分會會長、行政院政務顧問、臺南市政府市政顧問。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:29:45.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:29:58.850000+08:00","text":"董事長來了之後，因為認為董事長都是無薪的，所以他要求有薪，請問副執行長，現在資策會給新任董事長薪水了嗎？有給。有給？","quality":0.804},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:29:58.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:29:59.851000+08:00","text":"一個月多少錢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副執行長博仁","start":"2025-06-18T12:29:59.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:01.692000+08:00","text":"那是董事會通過的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:01.692000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:02.692000+08:00","text":"董事會通過？","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:01.892000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:02.492000+08:00","text":"當然通過啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:02.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:04.193000+08:00","text":"他要求了，當然通過。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:04.193000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:09.436000+08:00","text":"但是過去歷任董事長都是沒有拿薪水的，我剛剛講了。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"蕭副執行長博仁","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:10.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:14.834000+08:00","text":"委員，我們過去也有專任的董事長是有給付薪水的。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:15.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:19.596000+08:00","text":"那對於現在的黃仲銘，你們一個月給付他多少薪水？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"蕭副執行長博仁","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:23.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:25.337000+08:00","text":"董事會的薪酬委員會並沒有更……","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:25.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:26.798000+08:00","text":"有沒有超過院長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:26.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:29.258000+08:00","text":"有沒有超過現在的五院院長薪水？","quality":1},{"speaker":"蕭副執行長博仁","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:30.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:35.040000+08:00","text":"我們本來就有限制，不能超過部會首長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:35.040000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:35.960000+08:00","text":"那現在是多少呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:36.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:38.541000+08:00","text":"沒有超過部會首長？是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:40.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:51.379000+08:00","text":"我要講的是未來在進用時……你們現在已經藏了這麼多人，我覺得資策會不應該淪落成一個政治性酬庸的地方。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:52.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:30:56.882000+08:00","text":"而且怎麼如此集中，全部都是過去在臺南市政府任職的？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:30:57.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:04.620000+08:00","text":"我不是說在臺南市政府任職不好，但是我剛才講了這麼多、如此集中，合理嗎？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:04.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:05.580000+08:00","text":"我們還要發展什麼樣的AI產業？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:05.720000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:06.621000+08:00","text":"資策會未來對於AI產業的發展還能有什麼貢獻呢？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:06.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:07.641000+08:00","text":"時間暫停一下，我想請數發部部長，利用一點點時間，好不好？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:07.641000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:21.321000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:21.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:24.044000+08:00","text":"部長，有一個問題也很重要。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:24.785000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:38.459000+08:00","text":"剛才大家講了很多中華電信數位憑證不被認證的事，但是最近還發生了一件事，就是很多公民營銀行統統拒絕、暫停使用自然人憑證。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:38.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:53.236000+08:00","text":"自然人憑證其實使用得非常廣泛，很多人拿來報稅、很多人用來開銀行數位帳戶，但現在連公民營銀行，包含公股銀行喔！","quality":0.837},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:53.776000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:31:58.298000+08:00","text":"都暫停自然人憑證使用，請問一下，你們對此有什麼因應？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:31:58.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:11.207000+08:00","text":"報告委員，這不是因為對自然人憑證不信任，而是過去有很多人把自然人憑證跟密碼交給詐騙集團，讓他們用自然人憑證跟密碼去開詐騙帳戶，基於這樣的關係，所以暫時停止。","quality":0.819},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:11.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:18.412000+08:00","text":"但是現在已經要求開戶須透過video，就是要確定是那個人，以免造假，也呼籲民眾不要借給人家。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:18.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:27.719000+08:00","text":"所以重點是一些民眾把自然人憑證跟密碼交給詐騙集團這件事造成目前銀行暫停的理由，不是……","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:28.099000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:29.660000+08:00","text":"但是銀行是全面暫停啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:30.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:31.401000+08:00","text":"不，是部分銀行暫停，但是……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:31.501000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:34.143000+08:00","text":"我的意思是這些銀行就是全面暫停自然人憑證啊！","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:34.643000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:39.766000+08:00","text":"是因為有很多人把自然人憑證借給詐騙集團、又給了密碼。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:40.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:44.469000+08:00","text":"我們一直在宣傳，由於自然人憑證可以開銀行帳戶……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:44.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:32:50.813000+08:00","text":"那當然是詐騙行為，卻因此導致現在有這麼多銀行暫停使用。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:32:51.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:02.924000+08:00","text":"所以現在有改進措施，就是用自然人憑證開戶的同時要經過video conference，還是要跟銀行行員面對面開戶，不能只是拿個憑證。","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:03.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:03.244000+08:00","text":"因為現在發生……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:05.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:05.566000+08:00","text":"好，這就是我們的數位大退步啦！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:05.647000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:07.108000+08:00","text":"過去開戶要拿雙憑證、要拍照，後來有了數位憑證，但是現在又倒退回石器時代。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:21.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:27.649000+08:00","text":"不，除了自然人憑證，以後也會用指紋辨識，譬如說FIDO指紋辨識，就是自然人憑證還要加指紋辨識，這可能是我們以後要推動的。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:28.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:40.594000+08:00","text":"至於目前以自然人憑證開戶時，就是要確認是本人、就是要看影像，若要做影像辨識，那也可以，但就是要確定是那個人用這張卡片，才不會發生卡片被別人偷走或帳號被偷走，用來做一些不法的事情。","quality":0.753},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:40.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:43.115000+08:00","text":"這是目前遇到的問題，而不是自然人憑證本身的問題。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:43.115000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:44.196000+08:00","text":"好，所以回過頭來，還是因為詐騙的關係啊！","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:48.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:52.202000+08:00","text":"是詐騙集團在欺騙、借自然人憑證去開人頭戶。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:52.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:33:59.990000+08:00","text":"可是已經使得其他自然人憑證使用者、沒有被詐騙者，最後也沒有辦法使用。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:33:59.990000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-06-18T12:34:00.990000+08:00","text":"對，所以我們要改進……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:34:00.671000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:34:02.053000+08:00","text":"還是要有防堵的方式，好不好？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃部長彥男","start":"2025-06-18T12:34:02.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:34:05.156000+08:00","text":"對，現在就是用video影像辨識，以確認為本人。","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-06-18T12:34:05.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-06-18T12:34:05.296000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-06-18T12:34:05.796000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-06-18T12:34:10.653143+08:00","text":"蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-06-18T12:34:10.953143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-06-18T12:34:12.667429+08:00","text":"請何欣純委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":994,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時25分）謝謝主席，我請今天有來的資策會副執行長。"],["主席：請資策會副執行長。"],["蕭副執行長博仁：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：副執行長好。今天我們談的題目非常大，就是怎麼推動我們的AI產業。資策會當年是由李國鼎先生創辦的……今天你們的主管機關經濟部沒有來。資策會長期以來都聚焦怎麼推進我國資訊產業政策以及促進產業發展，且現在的AI產業也非常重要，但是現在的資策會淪為賴清德總統親信的藏身場所！今天執行長也沒有來，您是副執行長。副執行長，您自己是臺南市政府法制處處長、秘書處處長出身，您的專長是法律吧？"],["蕭副執行長博仁：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：不是資策會裡不應該有法律相關人才，但是我現在給大家看一看、攤開現在的資策會人事，大家就可以看到這種酬庸有多麼嚴重，而且幾乎都集中在賴清德總統過去任職臺南市政府時代的人馬。包含你們現在的AI研究院院長，他雖然頂著所謂資管博士的頭銜，但臺灣的資管博士到路上也是一把抓啊！他的經歷是什麼呢？主要是南臺科大助教，然後就是臺南市政府研考會主委，其他呢？沒有，沒有其他任何與資策會、資訊產業相關的資歷了。","還有更離譜的，叫做吳堂成，他擔任資策會的資深規劃師，結果去年底被抓包最愛看的是政論節目啊！然後，工作的時候在睡覺。現在官員裡面也有人一直在睡，只是我看你醒了，就不點名你。太離譜了！好幾個委員在質詢，你卻已經睡得不知何年何月了。這個吳堂成在工作的時候睡覺，資策會的人看不下去，對外爆料。","再來更離譜的，有一位官員叫做曾柏瑜，她在參選民進黨新北市議員落選後，去擔任資策會治安科技研究所國際合作總監欸！您可知道她的資歷是什麼、她學什麼的？社會學系，出身社會學系，擔任資策會治安科技研究所國際合作總監！","我想請問一下，關於資策會的黃仲銘董事長，我剛才說了，資策會是李國鼎先生創辦的，歷任部長中有很多位，包含黃仲銘董事長的前一任……他最後很倒楣，本來任期應該到2026年，卻提前讓他走路，只是為了讓黃仲銘當董事長。前一任叫做李世光，他擔任過經濟部長；在資策會過去的董事長裡面，很多都是在經濟部長卸任之後來擔任資策會董事長。那麼這位黃仲銘董事長有什麼背景呢？又來了：信賴之友會臺南分會會長、行政院政務顧問、臺南市政府市政顧問。董事長來了之後，因為認為董事長都是無薪的，所以他要求有薪，請問副執行長，現在資策會給新任董事長薪水了嗎？"],["蕭副執行長博仁：有給。"],["王委員鴻薇：有給？一個月多少錢？"],["蕭副執行長博仁：那是董事會通過的。"],["王委員鴻薇：董事會通過？當然通過啊！他要求了，當然通過。但是過去歷任董事長都是沒有拿薪水的，我剛剛講了。"],["蕭副執行長博仁：委員，我們過去也有專任的董事長是有給付薪水的。"],["王委員鴻薇：那對於現在的黃仲銘，你們一個月給付他多少薪水？"],["蕭副執行長博仁：董事會的薪酬委員會並沒有更……"],["王委員鴻薇：有沒有超過院長？有沒有超過現在的五院院長薪水？"],["蕭副執行長博仁：我們本來就有限制，不能超過部會首長。"],["王委員鴻薇：那現在是多少呢？沒有超過部會首長？"],["蕭副執行長博仁：是。"],["王委員鴻薇：我要講的是未來在進用時……你們現在已經藏了這麼多人，我覺得資策會不應該淪落成一個政治性酬庸的地方。而且怎麼如此集中，全部都是過去在臺南市政府任職的？我不是說在臺南市政府任職不好，但是我剛才講了這麼多、如此集中，合理嗎？我們還要發展什麼樣的AI產業？資策會未來對於AI產業的發展還能有什麼貢獻呢？","時間暫停一下，我想請數發部部長，利用一點點時間，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：部長，有一個問題也很重要。剛才大家講了很多中華電信數位憑證不被認證的事，但是最近還發生了一件事，就是很多公民營銀行統統拒絕、暫停使用自然人憑證。自然人憑證其實使用得非常廣泛，很多人拿來報稅、很多人用來開銀行數位帳戶，但現在連公民營銀行，包含公股銀行喔！都暫停自然人憑證使用，請問一下，你們對此有什麼因應？"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，這不是因為對自然人憑證不信任，而是過去有很多人把自然人憑證跟密碼交給詐騙集團，讓他們用自然人憑證跟密碼去開詐騙帳戶，基於這樣的關係，所以暫時停止。但是現在已經要求開戶須透過video，就是要確定是那個人，以免造假，也呼籲民眾不要借給人家。所以重點是一些民眾把自然人憑證跟密碼交給詐騙集團這件事造成目前銀行暫停的理由，不是……"],["王委員鴻薇：但是銀行是全面暫停啊！"],["黃部長彥男：不，是部分銀行暫停，但是……"],["王委員鴻薇：我的意思是這些銀行就是全面暫停自然人憑證啊！"],["黃部長彥男：是因為有很多人把自然人憑證借給詐騙集團、又給了密碼。我們一直在宣傳，由於自然人憑證可以開銀行帳戶……"],["王委員鴻薇：那當然是詐騙行為，卻因此導致現在有這麼多銀行暫停使用。"],["黃部長彥男：所以現在有改進措施，就是用自然人憑證開戶的同時要經過video conference，還是要跟銀行行員面對面開戶，不能只是拿個憑證。因為現在發生……"],["王委員鴻薇：好，這就是我們的數位大退步啦！過去開戶要拿雙憑證、要拍照，後來有了數位憑證，但是現在又倒退回石器時代。"],["黃部長彥男：不，除了自然人憑證，以後也會用指紋辨識，譬如說FIDO指紋辨識，就是自然人憑證還要加指紋辨識，這可能是我們以後要推動的。至於目前以自然人憑證開戶時，就是要確認是本人、就是要看影像，若要做影像辨識，那也可以，但就是要確定是那個人用這張卡片，才不會發生卡片被別人偷走或帳號被偷走，用來做一些不法的事情。這是目前遇到的問題，而不是自然人憑證本身的問題。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以回過頭來，還是因為詐騙的關係啊！"],["黃部長彥男：是詐騙集團在欺騙、借自然人憑證去開人頭戶。"],["王委員鴻薇：可是已經使得其他自然人憑證使用者、沒有被詐騙者，最後也沒有辦法使用。"],["黃部長彥男：對，所以我們要改進……"],["王委員鴻薇：還是要有防堵的方式，好不好？"],["黃部長彥男：對，現在就是用video影像辨識，以確認為本人。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，謝謝。"],["黃部長彥男：謝謝。"],["主席：蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","請何欣純委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":442,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-23-16","speakers":["許智傑","洪孟楷","李昆澤","林國成","陳素月","林俊憲","徐富癸","邱若華","蔡其昌","葛如鈞","劉書彬","黃健豪","張雅琳","翁曉玲","鍾佳濱","葉元之","魯明哲","廖先翔","游顥","王鴻薇","何欣純","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":379,"meetingDate":["2025-06-18"],"gazette_id":"1146001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146001_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期交通委員會第16次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請數位發展部部長黃彥男就「推動 AI 之產業發展政策」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146001_00016"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}