{"error":false,"id":["163432"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":163432,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163432","日期":"2025-08-07","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-3-19-19","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":19,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-08-07T12:01:39+08:00","結束時間":"2025-08-07T12:08:57+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:18","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ce960b47cc6398b97c81e85960d9b69d70dc6911ab88c3aa976a05b665ea94a37778f5872ee59a395ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"12:01:39 - 12:08:57","會議時間":"2025-08-07T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議（事由：邀請國家發展委員會主任委員就「美國對等關稅底定後，我國經濟未來之景氣情況及產業全球佈局新規劃」進行報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":5.48159375,"end":7.67534375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":8.586593750000002,"end":9.126593750000001,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":16.68659375,"end":17.98596875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":18.47534375,"end":40.81784375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.35784375,"end":41.67846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.555968750000005,"end":44.024093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.665343750000005,"end":48.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":48.00659375,"end":50.38596875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.08221875,"end":52.49534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":52.056593750000005,"end":60.30846875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.406593750000006,"end":53.79471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":60.51096875,"end":69.23534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":68.49284375,"end":83.89971875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":84.22034375000001,"end":84.59159375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":84.97971875,"end":85.70534375000001,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":86.16096875000001,"end":100.38659375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":100.60596875,"end":123.25221875000001,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":123.43784375000001,"end":138.74346875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":139.04721875,"end":143.09721875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":144.04221875000002,"end":148.07534375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":148.48034375,"end":163.81971875000002,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":164.05596875,"end":198.26159375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":199.12221875,"end":205.46721875,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.68221875,"end":211.37346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.71096875,"end":212.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.40284375000002,"end":246.86159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":235.89284375000003,"end":236.28096875000003,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.01346875000002,"end":258.18471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.30284375,"end":260.15909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":259.50096875,"end":261.82971875000004,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":260.66534375000003,"end":262.50471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":262.13346875,"end":324.65534375000004,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.70721875000004,"end":263.01096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.09534375000004,"end":263.58471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.05596875000003,"end":272.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":324.75659375000004,"end":344.60159375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":344.92221875,"end":364.64909375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.79659375,"end":374.89221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":372.86721875,"end":373.23846875000004,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":375.55034375,"end":376.24221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.44471875000005,"end":381.70971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.99659375000005,"end":382.58721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":382.06409375000004,"end":384.02159375,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.87409375000004,"end":383.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.12284375,"end":385.11846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":384.19034375,"end":385.50659375000004,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":385.55721875,"end":395.37846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":395.61471875,"end":399.59721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.98534375,"end":406.26284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":406.60034375000004,"end":408.89534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":408.45659375,"end":435.40596875000006,"speaker_score":0.864},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":435.54096875000005,"end":436.13159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"王委員鴻薇","start":43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我大概第一個主要是我們上半年已經到6.67了這個我知道在報告裡面有的所以我只要一句話就是今天基本上主委願意代表政府你們還是會今年的經濟成長率全力保三嗎"},{"start":61.212,"end":83.964,"text":"會會會 因為下半年還有Apple的那種手機拉貨槽還有那個NVIDIA的GB300的拉貨槽所以覺得還有百分之三以上還是有希望好 今天在美國公布半導體稅率因為它的附加條件只要在美國有投資或者你承諾投資都可以豁免的百分之百"},{"start":85.065,"end":99.679,"text":"那立刻在股市也做了反映台積電大漲像鴻海大漲因為台積電跟鴻海在美國都有投資可是就如同剛才很多委員所說的我們看下一頁"},{"start":100.78,"end":107.845,"text":"有很多的大廠其實都沒有在美國投資到目前為止所以譬如說聯發科、瑞玉、華邦電、矽創當然還是不止這些公司而已所以對於這些台廠的影響百分之百的稅率事實上是不可承受之重"},{"start":123.556,"end":124.998,"text":"所以他必然出現一個趨勢也就是迫使台灣的這些半導體相關的廠商他必須到美國去投資不然他就沒有辦法豁免那百分之百嘛那這就會出現一個我們過去也非常擔心的"},{"start":144.11,"end":147.555,"text":"台積電到了美國我們說它變成美積電但是事實上在今年初川普上來之後就有一個趨勢我們現在是沉篡沉重的一起到美國去考察"},{"start":159.634,"end":161.915,"text":"所以當時就會非常擔心台積電過去還不夠整個足科恐怕都要搬過去因為確實我們來看確實很多的廠商陸陸續續比如廣達、合碩、仁寶、偉創、音業達等等都陸陸續續的從去年底開始就有設廠的計畫或者是設研發中心的計畫而且這樣的趨勢會是一直持續"},{"start":189.204,"end":205.263,"text":"所以作為國發會主委來說對於未來我們的高科技電子產業特別半導體的部分主委你擔不擔心不只台積電要過去整個竹科也會搬過去"},{"start":206.858,"end":234.894,"text":"對我們來看第一個廠商只要是跟流台灣的那這個做全球佈局這個倒不一定就是一定壞事我們比較擔心的是像當年很多中小企業是整個把台灣關掉搬走的我們會比較在意這一種但是以目前這個趨勢來看我想您大概業界也會聽到很多的企業都有在講到美國生產的成本是比較高的"},{"start":236.034,"end":257.489,"text":"所以大家都是針對美國市場去做移動不是針對他全球的市場做移動第二個業者也會開始在做全球其他市場的佈局所以第二個事情我們在開始擴大的內需的方案裡面我們像AI新四大建設就會發展更多的新技術然後擴大國內市場的需求"},{"start":258.61,"end":261.573,"text":"所以就半導體產業來說半導體產業來說國內的市場還是非常小我們已經佔了全球的四分之一那台積電更多將近七成之多那當然我們有我們的優勢"},{"start":275.325,"end":280.047,"text":"所以台積電其實百分之百對他來說他就是有優勢但是並不是所有的相關的產業鏈的產業他都有同樣的優勢所以我覺得這一點是我們必須非常非常小心的也就是不要變成整個竹科或者南科我們好不容易幾十年來的心血"},{"start":296.792,"end":301.173,"text":"因為這一次美國對半導體產業科百分之百的關稅把我們的根都已經把它剷除了這點我希望在我們整個的未來的因應裡面一定要把這個考慮進去另外第三個問題其實主委剛上任的時候曾經對核電其實你並不排斥但是整個的政府的氛圍使得你們必須改口"},{"start":326.042,"end":339.91,"text":"823就有一個核三研議的公投當然我們會全力的來推動所以我想請問主委作為一個專業系你剛講你來自業界也跟業界有很好的互動我相信從業界來講沒有人會認為說核三不應該研議"},{"start":344.092,"end":364.51,"text":"所以您同不同意如果核酸可以做演绎的话对于现在尤其我们高科技产业对于我们AI产业现在面对的新的美国贸易战的变局对于我们业者来降低成本跟留台湾是有帮助的"},{"start":365.994,"end":373.258,"text":"我現在看到產業比較找我討論的比較是他需要更多的綠電來因應他的R100或R150"},{"start":375.592,"end":399.206,"text":"那看起來台灣對綠電的缺需是比較高的目前的狀態所以確實核酸原液應該有幫助吧就永續的部分我們會我們事實上會我們大部分都是在協助多元綠能的發展包括在這個地熱的發展甚至我們也協助訂的氫能源政策"},{"start":400.046,"end":410.572,"text":"大概會我們希望能夠盡快的去滿足尤其是半導體業者對於綠電的需求那非常的急迫所以我們大部分現在我知道你還在迴避這個話題但是呢就台灣的這個這個能源的永續經營產業的永續經營其實台灣真的走在一個實質路口我覺得我還是會鼓勵我們的尤其來自業界的向主委還是能夠本於你的專業願意說真話"},{"start":431.205,"end":434.732,"text":"不然的話你對產業來講根本就是雙重還不甚至三重的打擊好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:01:45.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:01:45.509000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:01:45.831000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:01:46.173000+08:00","text":"請劉主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-07T12:01:46.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:01:46.495000+08:00","text":"劉主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:01:46.495000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:01:55.964000+08:00","text":"王委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:01:55.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:01:56.604000+08:00","text":"主委辛苦了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:01:57.545000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:02:03.028000+08:00","text":"主委，剛才呂玉玲委員有問您，我們今年的經濟成長率能不能保3？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:02:05.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:02:21.842000+08:00","text":"因為當時半導體的稅率還沒有公布，但現在美國對國外的半導體稅率公布了，所以基本上你們還是維持報告裡面說的，今年經濟成長率保3？是的。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:02:23.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:02:25.664000+08:00","text":"第一個，主要是我們上半年已經到6.67了，上半年……","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:02:27.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:02:29.186000+08:00","text":"這我知道，在報告裡面有。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:02:29.186000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:02:31.347000+08:00","text":"當然上下……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:02:31.347000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:02:40.212000+08:00","text":"所以我只要一句話，今天主委願意代表政府宣示今年的經濟成長率會全力保3？會、會。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:02:40.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:02:46.816000+08:00","text":"因為下半年還有Apple的手機拉貨潮，還有NVIDIA的GB300的拉貨潮，都有機會帶動。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:02:47.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:02:51.378000+08:00","text":"好，所以你覺得3%以上還是有希望？好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:02:51.998000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:03:01.823000+08:00","text":"今天美國公布半導體稅率，它的附加條件是只要在美國有投資或者承諾投資都可以豁免100%。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:03:06.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:03:15.376000+08:00","text":"股市也立刻做了反應，台積電大漲、鴻海大漲，因為像台積電跟鴻海在美國都有投資。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:03:15.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:03:25.544000+08:00","text":"可是就如同剛才很多委員所說的，到目前為止，有很多的大廠其實都沒有在美國投資，譬如說聯發科、瑞昱、華邦電、矽創，當然還不只這些公司。","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:03:25.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:03:43.457000+08:00","text":"對於這些臺廠的影響，事實上100%的稅率是不可承受之重，所以它必然出現一個趨勢，也就是迫使臺灣這些半導體相關的廠商必須到美國去投資，不然它就沒有辦法豁免100%嘛！","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:03:43.497000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:04:05.273000+08:00","text":"這就會出現一個我們過去也非常擔心的事，台積電到了美國，我們說它變成美積電。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:04:05.394000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:04:19.254000+08:00","text":"在今年初川普上來之後就有一個趨勢，我們現在是成串的一起到美國去考察，所以當時就非常擔心台積電過去還不夠，整個竹科恐怕都要搬過去。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:04:19.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:04:20.915000+08:00","text":"我們來看，確實很多的廠商陸陸續續比如廣達、和碩、仁寶、緯創、英業達等等，從去年底開始就有設廠的計畫，或者是設研發中心的計畫，而且這樣的趨勢會一直持續。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:04:48.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:04.243000+08:00","text":"所以作為國發會主委，對於未來我們高科技電子產業，特別是半導體部分，主委，你擔不擔心不只台積電要過去，整個竹科也會搬過去？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:05.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:18.305000+08:00","text":"對我們來看，第一個，廠商只要是根留臺灣的，它做全球布局，這個倒不一定就是壞事。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:18.305000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:19.305000+08:00","text":"我們鼓勵？","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:18.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:26.449000+08:00","text":"我們比較擔心的是，像當年很多中小企業是整個把臺灣廠關掉搬走的，所以我們會比較在意這一種。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:26.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:33.873000+08:00","text":"以目前這個趨勢來看，我想您大概也會聽到很多業界的企業都在講，到美國生產的成本是比較高的……","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:33.873000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:35.034000+08:00","text":"是，沒錯。","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:35.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:40.858000+08:00","text":"所以大家都是針對美國市場去做移動，不是針對它全球的市場做移動。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:40.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:56.469000+08:00","text":"第二個，業者也會開始在做全球其他市場的布局，所以我們開始在擴大內需的方案裡面，像「AI新十大建設」就會發展更多的新技術，然後擴大國內市場的需求跟協助廠商高值化的發展。","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:57.730000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:57.770000+08:00","text":"不過就半導體產業來說……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:57.770000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:58.770000+08:00","text":"這些都是我們在做長期布局的發展……","quality":0},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:57.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:05:59.872000+08:00","text":"國內的市場還是非常小，我們已經占了全球的四分之一了，那台積電更多，將近七成之多。對。","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:05:59.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:06:18.286000+08:00","text":"當然，我們有我們的優勢，所以其實對台積電來說，它百分之百就是有優勢，但是並不是所有的、相關產業鏈的產業都有同樣的優勢，所以我覺得這一點是我們必須非常非常小心的。","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:06:18.306000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:06:37.212000+08:00","text":"也就是不要變成整個竹科或者南科，我們好不容易幾十年來的心血，因為這一次美國對半導體產業課100%的關稅，把我們的根都一起鏟除了！","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:06:37.232000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:06:38.213000+08:00","text":"這點我希望在我們整個未來的因應裡面，一定要把這個考慮進去。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:06:38.253000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:06:40.153000+08:00","text":"另外，第三個問題，其實主委剛上任的時候曾經對核電……其實你並不排斥，但是整個政府的氛圍使得你們必須改口。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:07:05.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:07:18.890000+08:00","text":"823就有一個核三延役的公投，當然我們會全力的來推動，所以我想請問主委，作為一個專業性……你剛剛講你來自業界，也跟業界有很好的互動，我相信從業界來講，沒有人會認為核三不應該延役！","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:07:23.092000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:07:43.490000+08:00","text":"所以您同不同意，如果核三可以延役的話，尤其對於高科技產業，對於AI產業現在面對的新的美國貿易戰變局，對於我們業者降低成本、根留臺灣是有幫助的？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:07:44.994000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:07:59.255000+08:00","text":"我現在看到產業找我討論的比較是它需要更多的綠電來因應RE100或RE50，目前的狀態看起來臺灣對綠電的缺需是比較高的……","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:07:59.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:08:04.298000+08:00","text":"所以確實核三延役應該有幫助吧？","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:08:04.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:08:27.331000+08:00","text":"所以就永續的部分，事實上我們大部分都是在協助對多元綠能的發展，包括在地熱的發展，甚至我們也協助訂了氫能源政策，我們大概希望能夠儘快的去滿足尤其是半導體業者對綠電的需求，那非常的急迫，所以我們大部分現在處理這個事情。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:08:27.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:08:29.572000+08:00","text":"我知道你還在迴避這個話題，但是就臺灣能源的永續經營、產業的永續經營來說，其實臺灣真的走在十字路口，我還是會鼓勵我們尤其來自業界的，像主委，還是能夠本於你的專業，願意說真話。","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"王委員鴻薇","start":"2025-08-07T12:08:50.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:08:53.712000+08:00","text":"不然對產業來講根本就是雙重、甚至三重的打擊，謝謝。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"劉主任委員鏡清","start":"2025-08-07T12:08:53.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-07T12:08:53.732000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-07T12:08:54.232000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:08:56.517714+08:00","text":"謝謝，現在休息10分鐘。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-07T12:08:56.817714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:08:57.960571+08:00","text":"休息（12時9分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-07T12:08:58.260571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:08:59.974857+08:00","text":"繼續開會（12時19分）","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-07T12:09:00.274857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:09:01.417714+08:00","text":"開始開會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-07T12:09:01.717714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:09:08.003429+08:00","text":"現在請黃國昌委員詢答，黃國昌委員，黃國昌委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-07T12:09:08.303429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-07T12:09:10.589143+08:00","text":"請陳冠廷委員詢答。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":984,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（12時1分）謝謝主席。請劉主委。"],["主席：劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：王委員好。"],["王委員鴻薇：主委辛苦了。主委，剛才呂玉玲委員有問您，我們今年的經濟成長率能不能保3？因為當時半導體的稅率還沒有公布，但現在美國對國外的半導體稅率公布了，所以基本上你們還是維持報告裡面說的，今年經濟成長率保3？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。第一個，主要是我們上半年已經到6.67了，上半年……"],["王委員鴻薇：這我知道，在報告裡面有。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：當然上下……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我只要一句話，今天主委願意代表政府宣示今年的經濟成長率會全力保3？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：會、會。因為下半年還有Apple的手機拉貨潮，還有NVIDIA的GB300的拉貨潮，都有機會帶動。"],["王委員鴻薇：好，所以你覺得3%以上還是有希望？好。今天美國公布半導體稅率，它的附加條件是只要在美國有投資或者承諾投資都可以豁免100%。股市也立刻做了反應，台積電大漲、鴻海大漲，因為像台積電跟鴻海在美國都有投資。可是就如同剛才很多委員所說的，到目前為止，有很多的大廠其實都沒有在美國投資，譬如說聯發科、瑞昱、華邦電、矽創，當然還不只這些公司。對於這些臺廠的影響，事實上100%的稅率是不可承受之重，所以它必然出現一個趨勢，也就是迫使臺灣這些半導體相關的廠商必須到美國去投資，不然它就沒有辦法豁免100%嘛！這就會出現一個我們過去也非常擔心的事，台積電到了美國，我們說它變成美積電。在今年初川普上來之後就有一個趨勢，我們現在是成串的一起到美國去考察，所以當時就非常擔心台積電過去還不夠，整個竹科恐怕都要搬過去。我們來看，確實很多的廠商陸陸續續比如廣達、和碩、仁寶、緯創、英業達等等，從去年底開始就有設廠的計畫，或者是設研發中心的計畫，而且這樣的趨勢會一直持續。所以作為國發會主委，對於未來我們高科技電子產業，特別是半導體部分，主委，你擔不擔心不只台積電要過去，整個竹科也會搬過去？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對我們來看，第一個，廠商只要是根留臺灣的，它做全球布局，這個倒不一定就是壞事。"],["王委員鴻薇：我們鼓勵？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們比較擔心的是，像當年很多中小企業是整個把臺灣廠關掉搬走的，所以我們會比較在意這一種。以目前這個趨勢來看，我想您大概也會聽到很多業界的企業都在講，到美國生產的成本是比較高的……"],["王委員鴻薇：是，沒錯。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以大家都是針對美國市場去做移動，不是針對它全球的市場做移動。第二個，業者也會開始在做全球其他市場的布局，所以我們開始在擴大內需的方案裡面，像「AI新十大建設」就會發展更多的新技術，然後擴大國內市場的需求跟協助廠商高值化的發展。"],["王委員鴻薇：不過就半導體產業來說……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這些都是我們在做長期布局的發展……"],["王委員鴻薇：國內的市場還是非常小，我們已經占了全球的四分之一了，那台積電更多，將近七成之多。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["王委員鴻薇：當然，我們有我們的優勢，所以其實對台積電來說，它百分之百就是有優勢，但是並不是所有的、相關產業鏈的產業都有同樣的優勢，所以我覺得這一點是我們必須非常非常小心的。也就是不要變成整個竹科或者南科，我們好不容易幾十年來的心血，因為這一次美國對半導體產業課100%的關稅，把我們的根都一起鏟除了！這點我希望在我們整個未來的因應裡面，一定要把這個考慮進去。","另外，第三個問題，其實主委剛上任的時候曾經對核電……其實你並不排斥，但是整個政府的氛圍使得你們必須改口。823就有一個核三延役的公投，當然我們會全力的來推動，所以我想請問主委，作為一個專業性……你剛剛講你來自業界，也跟業界有很好的互動，我相信從業界來講，沒有人會認為核三不應該延役！所以您同不同意，如果核三可以延役的話，尤其對於高科技產業，對於AI產業現在面對的新的美國貿易戰變局，對於我們業者降低成本、根留臺灣是有幫助的？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我現在看到產業找我討論的比較是它需要更多的綠電來因應RE100或RE50，目前的狀態看起來臺灣對綠電的缺需是比較高的……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以確實核三延役應該有幫助吧？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以就永續的部分，事實上我們大部分都是在協助對多元綠能的發展，包括在地熱的發展，甚至我們也協助訂了氫能源政策，我們大概希望能夠儘快的去滿足尤其是半導體業者對綠電的需求，那非常的急迫，所以我們大部分現在處理這個事情。"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道你還在迴避這個話題，但是就臺灣能源的永續經營、產業的永續經營來說，其實臺灣真的走在十字路口，我還是會鼓勵我們尤其來自業界的，像主委，還是能夠本於你的專業，願意說真話。不然對產業來講根本就是雙重、甚至三重的打擊，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝，現在休息10分鐘。","休息（12時9分）","繼續開會（12時19分）"],["主席：開始開會。","現在請黃國昌委員詢答，黃國昌委員，黃國昌委員不在。","請陳冠廷委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":500,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-19","speakers":["謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","陳超明","邱志偉","賴士葆","李坤城","呂玉玲","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","廖先翔","葉元之","蔡易餘","林岱樺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":437,"meetingDate":["2025-08-07"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員就「美國對等關稅底定後，我國經濟未來之景氣情況及產業全球佈\n局新規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147101_00010"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}