{"error":false,"id":["163656"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":163656,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163656","日期":"2025-08-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第3會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":3,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[20,15,19,22,23,26],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會","內政委員會","經濟委員會","教育及文化委員會","交通委員會","社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第3會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-08-27T10:25:43+08:00","結束時間":"2025-08-27T10:31:55+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1260f60a4cb8a650ebe59da8236204d418dc12f595704a3d489d0440bf86c386cc0bfe413a39fb5b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃珊珊","委員發言時間":"10:25:43 - 10:31:55","會議時間":"2025-08-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查行政院函請審議「中央政府丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案」。\n【預算提案截止時間：8月25日（一）下午5時】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":4.11471875,"end":7.624718750000001,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":7.87784375,"end":9.632843750000003,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":8.35034375,"end":8.72159375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":22.27221875,"end":22.879718750000002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":22.44096875,"end":48.242843750000006,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":48.664718750000006,"end":56.579093750000006,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":56.02221875,"end":82.75221875000001,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":83.49471875,"end":88.75971875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":89.48534375,"end":95.47596875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":95.39159375000001,"end":101.97284375000001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":95.71221875,"end":95.99909375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":100.84221875,"end":103.74471875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":103.74471875,"end":112.75596875000001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":107.81159375,"end":108.85784375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":112.35096875,"end":119.84346875000001,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":113.81909375000001,"end":114.13971875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":117.46409375,"end":117.54846875000001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":117.59909375000001,"end":117.75096875000001,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":120.63659375,"end":148.39596875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":148.54784375,"end":149.10471875000002,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":148.59846875000002,"end":150.25221875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":150.20159375,"end":156.39471875,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":154.74096875,"end":155.14596875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":156.58034375,"end":166.94159375,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":156.59721875,"end":157.13721875000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":163.43159375000002,"end":164.69721875000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":166.41846875000002,"end":196.33784375000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":190.00971875000002,"end":190.14471875,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":195.40971875000002,"end":201.06284375,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":200.55659375000002,"end":201.83909375000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":201.58596875,"end":201.67034375,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":201.83909375000002,"end":203.96534375000002,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":202.12596875000003,"end":206.26034375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":204.80909375000002,"end":207.89721875,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":206.58096875,"end":210.46221875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":209.77034375000002,"end":210.91784375,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":210.88409375,"end":215.32221875000002,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":215.82846875,"end":229.02471875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":229.39596875,"end":230.61096875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":231.11721875,"end":234.50909375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":235.35284375,"end":238.50846875000002,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":238.50846875000002,"end":252.53159375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":252.85221875000002,"end":258.97784375000003,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":259.41659375,"end":265.49159375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":265.96409375,"end":268.63034375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":268.63034375,"end":276.74721875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":278.23221875,"end":279.56534375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":279.27846875,"end":282.11346875000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":282.45096875,"end":284.15534375000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":285.58971875000003,"end":288.44159375000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":289.65659375,"end":292.52534375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":292.15409375,"end":299.44409375000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":292.54221875,"end":292.55909375000005,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":300.70971875000004,"end":303.74721875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":305.19846875,"end":313.78784375000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":314.54721875,"end":323.37284375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":323.92971875,"end":324.94221875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":326.68034375,"end":327.72659375,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":328.89096875,"end":331.06784375,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":330.44346875,"end":331.59096875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":332.14784375000005,"end":332.19846875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":332.19846875,"end":333.26159375000003,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":332.26596875,"end":335.13471875000005,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":338.40846875,"end":342.25596875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":344.26409375000003,"end":346.23846875000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":348.78659375,"end":350.45721875000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"陳主計長淑姿","start":349.91721875,"end":356.66721875,"speaker_score":0.911},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":352.75221875,"end":355.51971875000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":356.27909375,"end":358.05096875000004,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":358.42221875,"end":361.76346875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃委員珊珊","start":362.69159375000004,"end":371.31471875,"speaker_score":0.969},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":372.42846875000004,"end":373.87971875000005,"speaker_score":0.832},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"劉部長世芳","start":373.91346875000005,"end":373.96409375,"speaker_score":0.832}],"whisperx":[{"start":4.428,"end":9.42,"text":"謝謝主席我請主席長還有內政部好 主席長跟內政部"},{"start":23.165,"end":48.022,"text":"兩位部長早我想今天是丹納斯颱風的特別條例的特別預算那從7月6號肆虐南台灣然後8月15我們三讀通過特別條例這個禮拜五預計會把特別預算也通過這是因為在朝野有共識的情況下我想問一下內政部是災害防救的主管機關部長你覺得這樣的速度算快了嗎"},{"start":49.077,"end":70.607,"text":"如果說以我們把這個特別預算跟這個特別預算的條例送到立法院來非常謝謝立法院的委員的協助跟幫忙所以這也是這次研會最重要的任務因為剛好有這樣的狀況所以立法院的配合我相信兩個月對災民來說可能對他們來說是慢的但對我們來說制度上可能算是歷來以來最快的"},{"start":71.127,"end":88.445,"text":"但是主席長現在這樣的預算的流程大概就是固定以後有三單發生大概兩個月左右能夠通過特別預算就不錯了是嗎你覺得這樣的速度可以嗎不是 因為我們也盡量再趕因為我們這一次大概是也是"},{"start":89.522,"end":110.601,"text":"你們盡量再趕 立法院盡量再趕但是兩個月對災民來說還是辛苦的因為我們一般除了這個特別預算之外我們都會先用移緩季節的部分對 有災害準備金有第二預備金不是 還有部分移緩季節還要特別統籌所以我們之前就已經有下撥100多億"},{"start":112.443,"end":119.416,"text":"所以我的意思是說災害防救他應該也建立一個制度化的流程所以內政部劉部長"},{"start":120.686,"end":150.105,"text":"其實內政部一直在討論說將來是不是要針對災害防治救助的法訂立一個專法消防署也曾經做過研究其實這是一個我剛剛講這個流程跟他的機制跟相關的剛剛主計長的講的那些SOP其實他應該有一個完整的系統而不是每一次突然間來然後我們大家就在這邊罵來罵去然後變成最後弄一個特別條例出來部長你們這個研究你知道嗎在部內研究很久了"},{"start":150.365,"end":166.387,"text":"是報告委員我想您說的部分是災害防救在一般來講本來主要是屬於應變那現在呢所碰到的困擾就是說在應變過後的這些復原跟重建是否速度會出問題那這個是要各部會一起來配合"},{"start":166.527,"end":193.758,"text":"消防署在101年就做過研究我希望內政部跟各單位我覺得這個部分應該是說我們台灣天災真的很多了所以這個機制如果是對消防救災單位還有復健來說就像我們疫情我們也是碰到了那麼大的疫情才建立了非常多的制度我也希望內政部在這個基礎之上用這一次的風災做參考是不是要訂出一個比較完整的機制而不是每一次都找各部會來討論他應該已經有一個"},{"start":196.579,"end":214.875,"text":"剛剛有特別提到災害防救的第一要務當然是救人為主的應變所以我可以說如果你們曾經研究過災後重建跟防救的部分要訂立相關的法案我覺得這個流程不要研究完了的部分擺在家裡啦好不好第二個就是主席長"},{"start":216.116,"end":234.17,"text":"這次的預算是用特別條例來訂的然後行政院是說只需要560草野協商說太少了應該到600所以立法跟行政達成共識所以三讀立法通過這也是難得立法院要增加預算行政院同意的是嗎"},{"start":235.555,"end":258.293,"text":"是 因為這整個是工程會它整個在所以就是說立法院能不能夠增加不能增加預算但是立法院可以在修訂法律的時候增加相關的預算因為它制定了所謂的人事機關或業務都一定會增加預算但是我們看到行政院這一次總預算的編列非常的奇怪為什麼"},{"start":260.075,"end":288.158,"text":"錦囂退休所的替代率跟國軍志願役加幾三萬塊沒有編在總預算裡面因為這考慮到整個一個制度的一個問題主席我問的是法律依法就應該編列預算國防部有沒有編過來內政部有沒有編過來有還是沒有這個部分如果有還是沒有他們有沒有編過來被誰刪掉了被你刪掉了還是被院長拍板拿掉了"},{"start":289.984,"end":312.765,"text":"這個部分我們就是說我們有提示你只要回答我你他們有沒有依法編列預算嗎你知不知道國防部已經在外面宣傳志願要加薪了最後被你們拿掉之後現在把廣告拉下來了這什麼國家立法院通過的法案總統公布的法律不施行然後說這是違憲行政院發言人代替大法官說這違憲"},{"start":314.625,"end":333.77,"text":"然後你們現在又說是因為考慮到什麼原因我只問一句國防部跟內政部有沒有依法編列預算過來主計出這邊審議有還是沒有有還是沒有他們有沒有編沒有編所以是他們兩個違法是嗎你今天要不要說實話他編了你們拿掉了就說實話"},{"start":344.301,"end":371.231,"text":"是你們拿掉的還是不准他們編這個很難回答嗎主計長這個本身是有決定說暫時不編所以決定不再編所以他們連編都沒有編我今天要講的是一套標準就好才化法一樣照編錦銷不編一個行政院兩種做法我實在看不懂啊依法行政你是主計長我希望你說到做到依法行政好謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:25:47.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:25:48.350000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:25:48.551000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:25:50.295000+08:00","text":"我請主計長，還有內政部劉部長。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-27T10:25:51.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:25:52.400000+08:00","text":"好，主計長跟內政部。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:25:52.400000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:26:06.165000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:26:06.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:26:06.525000+08:00","text":"兩位部長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:26:07.466000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:26:24.377000+08:00","text":"今天是審議丹娜絲颱風特別條例的特別預算，從7月6號肆虐南臺灣，然後8月15日我們三讀通過特別條例，這個禮拜五預計會把特別預算也通過，這是在朝野有共識的情況下。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:26:24.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:26:31.002000+08:00","text":"我想問一下，內政部是災害防救的主管機關，部長，你覺得這樣的速度算快了吧？","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-08-27T10:26:32.077000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:26:39.080000+08:00","text":"如果說以我們把特別預算跟特別預算條例送到立法院來，非常謝謝立法院委員的協助跟幫忙。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:26:39.180000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:26:53.587000+08:00","text":"所以這也是這次延會最重要的任務，因為剛好有這樣的狀況，所以立法院的配合，我相信兩個月對災民來說可能是慢的，但對我們來說，制度上可能算是歷來最快的。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:26:54.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:04.317000+08:00","text":"但是，主計長，現在這樣的預算流程大概就是固定，以後有災難發生，大概兩個月左右能夠通過特別預算就不錯了，是嗎？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:04.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:06.600000+08:00","text":"你覺得這樣速度可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:06.600000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:10.263000+08:00","text":"不是，因為我們也儘量在趕，因為我們這一次大概是……","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:12.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:18.027000+08:00","text":"你們儘量在趕，立法院也儘量在趕，但是兩個月對災民來說還是辛苦的。所以……","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:18.447000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:23.772000+08:00","text":"因為一般除了特別預算之外，我們都會先用移緩濟急的部分先去……","quality":0.852},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:24.673000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:26.415000+08:00","text":"對，有災害準備金，也有第二預備金。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:26.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:30.799000+08:00","text":"不是，還有部分移緩濟急，還有特別統籌，所以我們……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:30.799000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:31.799000+08:00","text":"特別統籌？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:30.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:33.601000+08:00","text":"我們之前就已經有下撥一百多億，將近100億。","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:35.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:27:39.871000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思是說災害防救應該也建立一個制度化的流程。是。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:27:41.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:08.962000+08:00","text":"內政部劉部長，其實內政部一直在討論將來是不是要針對災害防治救助的法訂立一個專法，消防署也曾經做過研究，其實這是一個……我剛剛講，這個流程跟它的機制、跟剛剛主計長的講的那些SOP，其實它應該有一個完整的系統，而不是每一次突然間來，然後我們大家就在這邊罵來罵去，變成最後弄一個特別條例出來。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:08.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:11.784000+08:00","text":"部長，這個研究你知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:11.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:13.085000+08:00","text":"在部內研究很久了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:13.365000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:18.752000+08:00","text":"是，報告委員，我想您說的部分，災害防救在一般來講本來主要是屬於應變。是。","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:20.034000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:27.685000+08:00","text":"現在所碰到的困擾就是在應變過後的復原跟重建速度是否會出問題……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:27.685000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:28.685000+08:00","text":"所以這個是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:28.085000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:29.367000+08:00","text":"這個是要各部會一起來配合。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:29.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:52.336000+08:00","text":"消防署在101年就做過研究，我希望內政部跟各單位，我覺得這個部分應該是說我們臺灣天災真的很多，所以這個機制如果是對消防救災單位，還有復建來說，就像疫情，我們也是碰到了那麼大的疫情才建立了非常多的制度，我也希望內政部在這個基礎之上，用這一次的風災做參考。","quality":0.991},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:52.336000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:53.336000+08:00","text":"好，我們來……","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:52.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:55.137000+08:00","text":"是不是要訂出一個比較完整的機制？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:55.297000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:28:56.758000+08:00","text":"而不是每一次都找各部會來討論，它應該已經有一個SOP。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-08-27T10:28:59.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:03.503000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我剛剛有特別提到，災害防救的第一要務當然是救人為主的應變。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:03.503000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:04.403000+08:00","text":"是，所以我的意思是說如果……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:04.403000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:05.403000+08:00","text":"但是要災後重建一定要很多部會的配合，沒有辦法由內政部來主責。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:04.844000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:14.032000+08:00","text":"你們曾經研究過災後重建跟防救的部分要訂立相關的法案，我覺得這個流程不要再……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"劉部長世芳","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:14.032000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:15.032000+08:00","text":"我們會來研究辦理。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:14.212000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:16.094000+08:00","text":"不要研究完的部分擺在家裡啦！","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:16.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:16.434000+08:00","text":"好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:17.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:37.170000+08:00","text":"第二個，主計長，這次預算是用特別條例來訂的，行政院是說只需要560，朝野協商說太少了，應該到600，然後立法跟行政達成共識，所以三讀立法通過，這也是難得立法院要增加預算，行政院同意的，是嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:38.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:41.277000+08:00","text":"是，因為這整個是工程會在……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:41.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:29:55.028000+08:00","text":"所以就是說立法院能不能夠增加……不能增加預算，但是立法院可以在修訂法律的時候增加相關的預算，因為它制定了所謂的人事機關或業務，都一定會增加預算。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:29:55.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:08.219000+08:00","text":"但是我們看到行政院這一次總預算的編列非常奇怪，為什麼警消退休所得替代率跟國軍志願役加給3萬塊沒有編在總預算裡面？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:09.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:11.662000+08:00","text":"因為這考慮到整個制度的問題。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:11.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:17.406000+08:00","text":"主計長，我問的是法律，依法就應該編列預算，國防部有沒有編過來？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:17.406000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:18.687000+08:00","text":"內政部有沒有編過來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:18.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:19.388000+08:00","text":"有，還是沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:21.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:22.250000+08:00","text":"這個部分如果……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:22.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:23.191000+08:00","text":"有，還是沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:23.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:25.693000+08:00","text":"他們有沒有編過來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:25.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:26.734000+08:00","text":"被誰刪掉了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:28.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:31.138000+08:00","text":"被你刪掉了，還是被院長拍板拿掉了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:32.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:35.026000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們就是有提示……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:35.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:37.608000+08:00","text":"你只要回答我，他們有沒有依法編列預算嘛？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:38.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:48.838000+08:00","text":"你知不知道國防部已經在外面宣傳志願役要加薪了，最後被你們拿掉之後，現在把廣告拉下來了，這什麼國家？","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:49.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:30:55.765000+08:00","text":"立法院通過的法案，總統公布的法律不施行，然後說這是違憲，行政院發言人代替大法官說這是違憲！","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:30:57.625000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:05.567000+08:00","text":"然後你們現在又說是因為考慮到什麼原因，我只問一句，國防部跟內政部有沒有依法編列預算過來主計處這邊審議？","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:05.567000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:06.007000+08:00","text":"有，還是沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:07.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:07.668000+08:00","text":"有，還是沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:09.708000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:09.748000+08:00","text":"他們是沒有正式提出來。","quality":0.3},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:09.748000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:10.748000+08:00","text":"他們有沒有編？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:09.968000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:10.268000+08:00","text":"沒有編。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:10.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:12.949000+08:00","text":"沒有編，所以是他們兩個部會違法，是嗎？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:12.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:13.909000+08:00","text":"你今天要不要說實話？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:13.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:16.770000+08:00","text":"他們編了，你們拿掉了，就說實話！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:27.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:31.923000+08:00","text":"是你們拿掉的，還是不准他們編？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:31.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:33.023000+08:00","text":"這個很難回答嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:33.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:33.143000+08:00","text":"主計長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:33.143000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:35.824000+08:00","text":"這個本身是有決定暫時不編，等到大法官釋憲之後……","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:35.824000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:39.446000+08:00","text":"所以決定不再編，所以他們連編都沒有編？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:39.446000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:40.446000+08:00","text":"釋憲之後……","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:39.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:49.269000+08:00","text":"我今天要講的是，一套標準就好，財劃法一樣，照編，警消不編，一個行政院兩種作法，我實在看不懂！","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"黃委員珊珊","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:49.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:54.051000+08:00","text":"依法行政，你是主計長，我希望你說到做到，依法行政。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:54.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:54.231000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝，謝謝珊珊委員。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-08-27T10:31:54.731000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-08-27T10:31:57.588143+08:00","text":"接著請鄭正鈐委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":414,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（10時25分）謝謝主席。我請主計長，還有內政部劉部長。"],["主席：好，主計長跟內政部。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：兩位部長早。今天是審議丹娜絲颱風特別條例的特別預算，從7月6號肆虐南臺灣，然後8月15日我們三讀通過特別條例，這個禮拜五預計會把特別預算也通過，這是在朝野有共識的情況下。我想問一下，內政部是災害防救的主管機關，部長，你覺得這樣的速度算快了吧？"],["劉部長世芳：如果說以我們把特別預算跟特別預算條例送到立法院來，非常謝謝立法院委員的協助跟幫忙。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以這也是這次延會最重要的任務，因為剛好有這樣的狀況，所以立法院的配合，我相信兩個月對災民來說可能是慢的，但對我們來說，制度上可能算是歷來最快的。但是，主計長，現在這樣的預算流程大概就是固定，以後有災難發生，大概兩個月左右能夠通過特別預算就不錯了，是嗎？你覺得這樣速度可以嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，因為我們也儘量在趕，因為我們這一次大概是……"],["黃委員珊珊：你們儘量在趕，立法院也儘量在趕，但是兩個月對災民來說還是辛苦的。所以……"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為一般除了特別預算之外，我們都會先用移緩濟急的部分先去……"],["黃委員珊珊：對，有災害準備金，也有第二預備金。"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，還有部分移緩濟急，還有特別統籌，所以我們……"],["黃委員珊珊：特別統籌？"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們之前就已經有下撥一百多億，將近100億。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我的意思是說災害防救應該也建立一個制度化的流程。"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：內政部劉部長，其實內政部一直在討論將來是不是要針對災害防治救助的法訂立一個專法，消防署也曾經做過研究，其實這是一個……我剛剛講，這個流程跟它的機制、跟剛剛主計長的講的那些SOP，其實它應該有一個完整的系統，而不是每一次突然間來，然後我們大家就在這邊罵來罵去，變成最後弄一個特別條例出來。部長，這個研究你知道嗎？在部內研究很久了。"],["劉部長世芳：是，報告委員，我想您說的部分，災害防救在一般來講本來主要是屬於應變。"],["黃委員珊珊：是。"],["劉部長世芳：現在所碰到的困擾就是在應變過後的復原跟重建速度是否會出問題……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以這個是……"],["劉部長世芳：這個是要各部會一起來配合。"],["黃委員珊珊：消防署在101年就做過研究，我希望內政部跟各單位，我覺得這個部分應該是說我們臺灣天災真的很多，所以這個機制如果是對消防救災單位，還有復建來說，就像疫情，我們也是碰到了那麼大的疫情才建立了非常多的制度，我也希望內政部在這個基礎之上，用這一次的風災做參考。"],["劉部長世芳：好，我們來……"],["黃委員珊珊：是不是要訂出一個比較完整的機制？而不是每一次都找各部會來討論，它應該已經有一個SOP。"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我剛剛有特別提到，災害防救的第一要務當然是救人為主的應變。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，所以我的意思是說如果……"],["劉部長世芳：但是要災後重建一定要很多部會的配合，沒有辦法由內政部來主責。"],["黃委員珊珊：你們曾經研究過災後重建跟防救的部分要訂立相關的法案，我覺得這個流程不要再……"],["劉部長世芳：我們會來研究辦理。"],["黃委員珊珊：不要研究完的部分擺在家裡啦！好不好？","第二個，主計長，這次預算是用特別條例來訂的，行政院是說只需要560，朝野協商說太少了，應該到600，然後立法跟行政達成共識，所以三讀立法通過，這也是難得立法院要增加預算，行政院同意的，是嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是，因為這整個是工程會在……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以就是說立法院能不能夠增加……不能增加預算，但是立法院可以在修訂法律的時候增加相關的預算，因為它制定了所謂的人事機關或業務，都一定會增加預算。但是我們看到行政院這一次總預算的編列非常奇怪，為什麼警消退休所得替代率跟國軍志願役加給3萬塊沒有編在總預算裡面？"],["陳主計長淑姿：因為這考慮到整個制度的問題。"],["黃委員珊珊：主計長，我問的是法律，依法就應該編列預算，國防部有沒有編過來？內政部有沒有編過來？有，還是沒有？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分如果……"],["黃委員珊珊：有，還是沒有？他們有沒有編過來？被誰刪掉了？被你刪掉了，還是被院長拍板拿掉了？"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個部分我們就是有提示……"],["黃委員珊珊：你只要回答我，他們有沒有依法編列預算嘛？你知不知道國防部已經在外面宣傳志願役要加薪了，最後被你們拿掉之後，現在把廣告拉下來了，這什麼國家？立法院通過的法案，總統公布的法律不施行，然後說這是違憲，行政院發言人代替大法官說這是違憲！然後你們現在又說是因為考慮到什麼原因，我只問一句，國防部跟內政部有沒有依法編列預算過來主計處這邊審議？有，還是沒有？有，還是沒有？"],["陳主計長淑姿：他們是沒有正式提出來。"],["黃委員珊珊：他們有沒有編？"],["陳主計長淑姿：沒有編。"],["黃委員珊珊：沒有編，所以是他們兩個部會違法，是嗎？你今天要不要說實話？他們編了，你們拿掉了，就說實話！是你們拿掉的，還是不准他們編？這個很難回答嗎？主計長。"],["陳主計長淑姿：這個本身是有決定暫時不編，等到大法官釋憲之後……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以決定不再編，所以他們連編都沒有編？"],["陳主計長淑姿：釋憲之後……"],["黃委員珊珊：我今天要講的是，一套標準就好，財劃法一樣，照編，警消不編，一個行政院兩種作法，我實在看不懂！依法行政，你是主計長，我希望你說到做到，依法行政。"],["主席：好，謝謝，謝謝珊珊委員。","接著請鄭正鈐委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","陳亭妃","賴士葆","郭國文","林思銘","蘇巧慧","林宜瑾","楊瓊瓔","張智倫","黃珊珊","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","林俊憲","鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","李昆澤","黃秀芳","李坤城","張宏陸","黃捷","陳玉珍","謝衣鳯","牛煦庭","王育敏","李彥秀","張雅琳","許智傑","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","徐富癸","范雲","王正旭","郭昱晴","林月琴","蘇清泉","李柏毅","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","葉元之","劉建國","高金素梅","蔡其昌","邱議瑩","魯明哲","徐欣瑩","劉書彬","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","王美惠","陳素月","游顥","陳超明","萬美玲","廖偉翔","邱志偉","張嘉郡","洪孟楷","黃健豪","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林淑芬","吳琪銘","許宇甄","黃建賓","陳昭姿"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-08-27"],"gazette_id":"1147601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「中央政府丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案」","agenda_id":"1147601_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}