{"error":false,"id":["163991"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":163991,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/163991","日期":"2025-10-09","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-36-2","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":2,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-10-09T12:10:57+08:00","結束時間":"2025-10-09T12:18:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/0913948005eacb620b9ff9e258e86e98119d4e8153da54ef5dd0128aa318ab8e10497944ed0372c35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"12:10:57 - 12:18:22","會議時間":"2025-10-09T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議（事由：邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長、銓敘部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢。 【10月8日及9日兩天一次會】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":0.03096875,"end":3.40596875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":5.81909375,"end":5.8697187500000005,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":6.342218750000001,"end":8.41784375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":8.77221875,"end":9.548468750000001,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":9.750968750000002,"end":11.556593750000001,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":12.68721875,"end":22.32284375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":22.59284375,"end":30.996593750000002,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":31.739093750000002,"end":41.23971875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":41.492843750000006,"end":46.90971875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":47.04471875,"end":51.90471875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":52.461593750000006,"end":56.96721875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":58.182218750000004,"end":62.11409375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":63.93659375000001,"end":64.18971875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":63.97034375000001,"end":65.79284375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":65.69159375000001,"end":73.40346875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":73.38659375,"end":78.44909375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":78.16221875000001,"end":79.68096875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":79.95096875,"end":87.91596875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":86.51534375,"end":87.00471875000001,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":88.18596875,"end":106.09034375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":91.98284375,"end":92.35409375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":96.89346875000001,"end":97.28159375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":106.09034375,"end":107.18721875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":106.76534375,"end":109.58346875000001,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":110.44409375000001,"end":111.52409375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":110.93346875,"end":135.03096875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":135.35159375,"end":135.65534375000001,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":135.52034375,"end":161.74409375000002,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":162.14909375000002,"end":172.98284375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":173.48909375000002,"end":174.50159375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":175.29471875000002,"end":183.85034375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":184.50846875000002,"end":187.76534375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":186.88784375,"end":193.38471875000002,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":189.95909375000002,"end":190.22909375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":193.65471875,"end":194.17784375000002,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":193.68846875,"end":195.46034375000002,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":194.78534375,"end":210.05721875,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":200.96159375000002,"end":201.02909375000002,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":201.02909375000002,"end":201.18096875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":201.18096875,"end":201.28221875000003,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":209.75346875000002,"end":234.01971875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":213.33096875,"end":213.65159375000002,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":225.76784375000003,"end":226.61159375000003,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":234.35721875000002,"end":246.77721875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":237.47909375,"end":238.13721875000002,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":247.48596875,"end":258.62346875000003,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":247.53659375,"end":248.02596875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":248.02596875,"end":249.03846875000002,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":258.82596875,"end":269.99721875,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":259.24784375,"end":259.72034375000004,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":269.81159375000004,"end":299.51159375000003,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":299.93346875000003,"end":353.44409375000004,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":353.96721875000003,"end":367.75409375000004,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":368.47971875,"end":369.54284375000003,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":369.54284375000003,"end":372.46221875000003,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":373.08659375,"end":417.51846875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":373.45784375000005,"end":373.55909375000005,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":417.92346875000004,"end":423.74534375,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":423.82971875000004,"end":428.33534375000005,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":428.50409375000004,"end":431.08596875,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":430.17471875,"end":430.25909375000003,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":431.44034375,"end":434.34284375000004,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":434.34284375000004,"end":443.62409375000004,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":437.97096875000005,"end":437.98784375,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"劉秘書長建忻","start":437.98784375,"end":438.51096875,"speaker_score":0.912},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":441.97034375000004,"end":442.83096875,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":443.30346875000004,"end":443.37096875000003,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"施部長能傑","start":443.62409375000004,"end":444.82221875000005,"speaker_score":0.893},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":444.97409375,"end":445.10909375000006,"speaker_score":0.867},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"葉委員元之","start":445.86846875000003,"end":445.96971875,"speaker_score":0.867}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.109,"end":7.557,"text":"我們接著就請葉元芝委員進行詢答 時間五分鐘請秘書長還有權敘部請秘書長 權敘部"},{"start":15.156,"end":30.225,"text":"現在考試院就是說10月10號開始要針對公務人員新增三天的身心調適假這個身心調適假講的目標非常遠大說是要呼應健康台灣的願景健康台灣是賴總統提出來的"},{"start":32.326,"end":56.739,"text":"呼應這個願景所以要推出這三天的身心調試假然後它的內容就是公務人員每年可以請三天病毒試駕計算然後以小時計免醫療證明機關不得那個主管不得拒絕應該是這樣沒錯吧是的那我不知道秘書長你有沒有去跟基層公務人員聊過這個身心調試假你覺得他們對這個身心調試假會有期待呢還是覺得可有可無"},{"start":58.428,"end":87.823,"text":"你有沒有去了解一下基層公務人員的心聲因為今天才實施嘛因為願景很紅 沒有啦 今天才實施沒錯啦但是公務人員可以預期嘛這個價對他來說是有用沒有用嘛過去在討論的時候有請一些 跟一些機關討論他們很期待嗎 這三天應該是說這個價本身他們覺得事實上是對調節身心來講有需要的時候 當然是有幫忙啊"},{"start":88.243,"end":107.007,"text":"那部長我請問一下你現在是病度試駕七天對不對公務人員一年請七天試駕是不用扣薪的嘛對吧你現在是把七天試駕說如果你有請三天身心調試駕的話那你還有四天試駕是可以不用扣薪沒錯吧那對他來說有什麼差他請試駕就好了"},{"start":110.629,"end":121.899,"text":"一般來說購物人員請假啦大部分 我遇到很多人其實不會請到士兵假不會請到士兵假那如果要請假的話試假就寫有事就好了"},{"start":122.728,"end":148.677,"text":"他也不用告訴你他要幹嘛我有事我在家裡面休息也算是有事啊對不對我只要說我有事私事我就可以請試駕那我何必要去請那個身心調試駕我請了身心調試駕我主管還會覺得我是不是身心壓力太大還怎麼樣他會不會還抱什麼為我來講會不會惹一些麻煩所以我就請試駕就好你今天如果說啦"},{"start":149.477,"end":174.163,"text":"你說新增身心調試假三天不併入試駕計算外加的變成說公務人員可以請十天有請假我是舉例啦當然沒有說一定要這樣做十天那有差但你如果是給了三天然後呢就說這個併入試駕那哪有差不信你可以問我們在場立法院的公務人員你問他們有沒有差沒有差啦"},{"start":175.339,"end":200.096,"text":"根本沒有差然後講的那個願景很偉大好像說我們這個是配合健康台灣有了這三天之後就不得了了公務機關都健康了我覺得這個有點太言過其實了你講的一部分我覺得也可能反映一些人的想法不過第一個就是說身心條例上機關不能拒絕一般警視架也不會拒絕我們也不希望說身心的健康這個問題好像是一個汙名化的議題"},{"start":200.896,"end":222.179,"text":"所以這也是在社會觀念慢慢在轉變大家越來越重視這一塊所以也不用因為請身心調適假有覺得有什麼被汙名化的我沒有說被汙名化我是說有些人怕麻煩嘛所以你現在是鼓勵大家請身心調適假然後讓身心問題不要被汙名化你訂這個假的目的是這個嗎"},{"start":223.52,"end":245.499,"text":"還是你是希望公務人員得到好的保障目的是哪一個嘛如果你的目的是要讓公務人員請假比較方便或者是讓他壓力變小我覺得你這樣的做法也許理想很豐滿啦現實很骨感所以我覺得如果要真的有重視這一塊的話要想別的辦法不是用這三天身心調事假來做"},{"start":247.648,"end":255.164,"text":"對 就是說你加一天比如說你七天試駕加一天身心調試駕是外加的 我覺得可能可以達到效果"},{"start":255.956,"end":278.453,"text":"但你病入那就效果有限我想價值我們重視身心健康的其中的一環我們員工協助方案去協助員工這方面的議題或是紓解身心壓力這個部分其他部分都要一起做第二 剛剛蔡議員也有問他說現在公務人員報考的或者是特別是在工程類地方政府都很缺"},{"start":279.534,"end":299.124,"text":"我跟一些基層公務員聊過啦他們說兩件事情第一個公務員現在的薪資其實跟業界比也不見得比得上公務員剛進去的時候薪資不錯但是到中高階的時候就趨緩了就沒有辦法跟業界中高階來比第二個以前大家認為公務員有一個比較完善的退休保障"},{"start":300.034,"end":318.036,"text":"但是自從就是我們所謂政府年金改革之後大家對於政府失去信任我跟現在在職的公務員聊天啊我就說年金如果說讓他停扣的話對你有什麼影響他說停扣啊我退休還有20年啊當然停扣是好的啊但是我退休還有20年"},{"start":318.777,"end":339.973,"text":"我們的政府就改一改去啊到時候又變了怎麼辦其實這件事情我覺得才是最大的一個危機就是我們的一些優秀人才他對於政府失去信任當時招攬人才進入到政府的時候跟他講說你的退休一定會有保障那薪資可能稍微低一點但是沒關係你退休一定有保障"},{"start":340.353,"end":367.356,"text":"忽然間改了完全失去信賴保障原則而這個不是針對已經受影響的那些退休公務人員是針對未來的人才已經在職的年輕公務人員都是有影響他們基本上是對政府失去信心我覺得這件事情這個考試院應該也要正式啦就是說要怎麼樣去扭轉這一切那我不知道說部長或者是秘書長你對於國民黨委員提出來的年金改革的版本你有了解嗎"},{"start":369.274,"end":394.99,"text":"我們知道有沒有要恢復18%沒有18%然後是不是要回到之前的水準所謂替代率有沒有也沒有嘛對不對因為外面現在有很多不知道是誤解還是故意傳說現在國民黨的年金改革就是要回到以前的水準恢復18%啦所謂替代率恢復75%沒有嘛現在是停扣嘛那停扣的目的是什麼停扣的目的是大家做一個通盤檢討嘛"},{"start":396.536,"end":423.574,"text":"然後再來就是我覺得政府要展現一個態度就是說我們之前做了但是沒關係現在既然有這個聲音好我們就來通盤檢討一下再一次給外界一個表達跟立場的說明然後我覺得還有一件事就我剛剛講的你要換回公務人員對政府的信任因為這個不是只有對之前的公務人員這對於我們招攬人才也都是有幫助的希望考試院可以往這個方向去啦"},{"start":423.834,"end":442.07,"text":"我想基金財務如果不見錢的話大家也會對這個退休制度會有那信任的問題咧信任的問題咧所以這個部分我覺得委員剛剛講沒有錯啦都改來改去啊所以你要檢討嘛你要有一個完整論述就是前面是已經造成一些裂痕嘛要一個完整論述嘛對啊謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:10:57.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:03.656000+08:00","text":"我請秘書長，還有銓敘部。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:04.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:04.537000+08:00","text":"請秘書長、銓敘部。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:04.537000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:08.346500+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:08.346500+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:12.156000+08:00","text":"秘書長好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:12.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:18.800000+08:00","text":"現在考試院從10月10號開始要針對公務人員新增3天的身心調適假。是。","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:20.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:27.205000+08:00","text":"身心調適假講得目標非常遠大，說是要呼應健康臺灣的願景，健康臺灣是賴總統提出來的嘛！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:29.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:44.274000+08:00","text":"呼應這個願景，所以要推出這3天的身心調適假，然後它的內容就是公務人員每年可以請3天，併入事假計算，然後以小時計，免醫療證明，主管不得拒絕，應該是這樣，沒錯吧？是的。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:44.934000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:48.536000+08:00","text":"我不知道秘書長有沒有去跟基層公務人員聊過這個身心調適假？","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:49.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:52.418000+08:00","text":"你覺得他們對這個身心調適假會有期待呢？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:52.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:11:53.719000+08:00","text":"還是覺得可有可無？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:11:55.428000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:01.351000+08:00","text":"你有沒有去了解一下基層公務人員的心聲？","quality":1},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:01.351000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:02.352000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為今天才實施嘛！","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:02.712000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:10.156000+08:00","text":"因為願景很……今天才實施沒錯啦，但是公務人員可以預期這個假對他來說是有用還是沒有用嘛！","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:10.616000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:15.338000+08:00","text":"過去在討論的時候有跟一些機關討論……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:15.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:16.239000+08:00","text":"他們很期待這3天嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:17.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:24.803000+08:00","text":"應該是說他們覺得這個假本身對調節身心來講，有需要的時候當然是有幫忙啊！確定？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:25.883000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:29.424000+08:00","text":"部長，我請問一下，現在是併入事假7天對不對？對。","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:29.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:33.525000+08:00","text":"公務人員一年請7天事假是不用扣薪的，對吧？對。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:34.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:42.687000+08:00","text":"現在是7天事假如果有請3天身心調適假的話，那就還有4天事假是可以不用扣薪，沒錯吧？對。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:43.527000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:43.687000+08:00","text":"對他來說有什麼差？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:43.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:43.987000+08:00","text":"請事假就好了啊！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"施部長能傑","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:43.987000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:12:47.629000+08:00","text":"因為那個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:12:47.629000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:03.929000+08:00","text":"一般來說，公務人員請假大部分其實不會請到事、病假，如果要請假的話，事假就寫「有事」就好了，他不用告訴你要幹嘛，我有事，在家裡面休息也算是有事啊！","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:04.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:04.830000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:04.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:08.911000+08:00","text":"我只要說我有私事就可以請事假啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:09.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:13.473000+08:00","text":"又何必要去請身心調適假？","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:13.753000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:22.556000+08:00","text":"請了身心調適假，主管還會覺得我是不是身心壓力太大還是怎麼樣，對我來講，會不會惹一些麻煩？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:22.556000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:23.976000+08:00","text":"所以我就請事假就好。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:24.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:45.381000+08:00","text":"今天如果新增身心調適假3天，不併入事假計算，是外加的，變成公務人員可以請10天有薪假，我是舉例，當然沒有一定要這樣做，10天，那就有差，但如果是給了3天，然後又併入事假，那哪有差？","quality":0.877},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:46.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:49.382000+08:00","text":"不信可以問我們在場立法院的公務人員，你問他們有沒有差？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:50.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:13:51.143000+08:00","text":"沒有差啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:13:52.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:03.727000+08:00","text":"根本沒有差，然後講的那個願景很偉大，好像說這是配合健康臺灣，有了這3天之後就不得了了，公務機關都健康了，我覺得這個有點太言過其實。","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:04.407000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:10.851000+08:00","text":"委員講的部分我覺得可能也反映一些人的想法，不過，第一個就是身心調適假機關不能拒絕。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:10.851000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:12.072000+08:00","text":"一般請事假也不會拒絕啦！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:12.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:26.545000+08:00","text":"第二個，我們也不希望身心健康這個問題好像是一個污名化的議題，這也是社會觀念慢慢在轉變，大家越來越重視這一塊，所以也不用因為請身心調適假覺得有什麼被污名化的……","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:27.266000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:29.889000+08:00","text":"沒有、沒有，我沒有說被污名化，我是說有些人怕麻煩嘛。是。","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:30.690000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:37.617000+08:00","text":"所以你現在是鼓勵大家請身心調適假，然後讓身心問題不要被污名化？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:38.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:39.179000+08:00","text":"訂這個假的目的是這個嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:40.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:42.362000+08:00","text":"還是希望公務人員得到好的保障？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:42.362000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:43.362000+08:00","text":"當然是希望可以正面面對……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:43.303000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:44.063000+08:00","text":"目的是哪一個？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:44.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:53.892000+08:00","text":"如果目的是要讓公務人員請假比較方便或者是讓他壓力變小，我覺得這樣的作法也許理想很豐滿，現實很骨感！","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:53.892000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:14:55.313000+08:00","text":"這個可以大家一起來討論。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:14:55.313000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:15:02.479000+08:00","text":"所以我覺得如果真的要重視這一塊的話，要想別的辦法，不是用這3天身心調適假來做。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:15:02.479000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:15:04.648000+08:00","text":"前面我們報告過，除了假以外……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:15:04.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:15:15.238000+08:00","text":"就是說你加1天，比如7天事假加1天身心調適假，是外加的我覺得可能可以達到效果，但是你是併入，那就效果有限。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:15:16.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:15:26.767000+08:00","text":"假是我們重視身心健康的其中一環，我們員工協助方案去協助員工這方面的議題，或是紓解身心壓力這個部分，其他部分都要一起做。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:15:26.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:15:35.433000+08:00","text":"第二，剛剛蔡易餘委員也有問，他說現在公務人員報考的或者特別是在工程類，地方政府都很缺嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:15:36.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:15:52.062000+08:00","text":"我有跟一些基層公務員聊過，他們說兩件事情：第一個，公務人員現在的薪資其實跟業界比也不見得比得上，公務員剛進去的時候薪資不錯，但是到中高階的時候就趨緩了，沒有辦法跟業界的中高階來比。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:15:52.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:16:02.040000+08:00","text":"第二個，以前大家認為公務人員有一個比較完善的退休保障，但是自從政府年金改革之後，大家對於政府失去信任。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:16:02.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:16:09.569000+08:00","text":"我跟現在在職的公務人員聊天，我說年金如果讓它停扣的話對你有什麼影響？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:16:09.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:16:10.571000+08:00","text":"他說：「停扣喔！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:16:11.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:16:13.855000+08:00","text":"我退休還有20年，當然停扣是好的啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:16:14.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:16:18.959000+08:00","text":"但是我退休還有20年，我們的政府就改來改去，到最後又變了怎麼辦？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:16:18.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:04.356000+08:00","text":"」其實這件事情我覺得才是最大的危機，就是我們的一些優秀人才對於政府失去信任，當時招攬人才進入政府的時候，跟他講說你的退休一定會有保障，薪資可能稍微低一點，但是沒關係，你退休一定有保障，忽然間改了，完全失去信賴保障原則，而這個不是針對已經受影響的那些退休公務人員，是針對未來的人才、已經在職的年輕公務人員都是有影響，他們基本上是對政府失去信心，我覺得這件事情考試院應該也要正視，就是說要怎麼樣去扭轉這一切，我不知道部長或者是秘書長對於國民黨委員提出來的年金改革版本，你有了解嗎？","quality":0.995},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:06.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:06.634000+08:00","text":"我們知道法案的內容。","quality":0.444},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:06.874000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:10.596000+08:00","text":"有沒有要恢復18%？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:10.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:11.737000+08:00","text":"沒有18%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:11.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:14.539000+08:00","text":"然後所得替代率是不是要回到之前的水準？","quality":0.722},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:15.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:15.540000+08:00","text":"有沒有？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:15.540000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:16.540000+08:00","text":"也沒有回到原來的水準。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:16.280000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:16.660000+08:00","text":"也沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:17.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:17.441000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:17.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:22.164000+08:00","text":"因為外面現在有很多不知道是誤解還是故意傳說：哎呀！","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:22.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:26.867000+08:00","text":"現在國民黨的年金改革就是要回到以前的水準，恢復18%，所得替代率恢復75。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:26.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:27.247000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:27.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:28.668000+08:00","text":"現在是停扣嘛！是。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:29.388000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:30.449000+08:00","text":"那停扣的目的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:30.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:31.970000+08:00","text":"停扣的目的是大家做通盤檢討嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:33.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:17:47.946000+08:00","text":"然後再來就是我覺得政府要展現一個態度，我們之前做了，但是沒關係，現在既然有這個聲音，好，我們就來通盤檢討一下，再一次給外界一個表達跟立場的說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:17:48.426000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:00.554000+08:00","text":"然後我覺得還有一件事就是我剛剛講的，你要喚回公務人員對政府的信任，因為這個不是只有對之前的公務人員，這對於我們招攬人才也都是有幫助的，我希望考試院可以往這個方向去啦！","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:00.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:05.098000+08:00","text":"我想基金財務如果不健全的話，大家也會對這個退休制度會有……","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:05.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:07.220000+08:00","text":"那信任的問題呢？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:07.220000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:11.003000+08:00","text":"是信任的問題，所以這個部分我覺得如果……委員剛剛講的沒有錯，就這個議題……","quality":0.71},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:11.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:12.104000+08:00","text":"就改來改去啊！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:12.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:13.205000+08:00","text":"所以你要檢討嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:13.405000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:14.806000+08:00","text":"你要有一個完整論述……","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:14.806000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:15.806000+08:00","text":"大家來檢討一下整體的財務狀況……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:15.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:18.910000+08:00","text":"前面已經造成一些裂痕，要有一個完整論述嘛！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:19.410000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:22.838571+08:00","text":"我們可以來呈現給大家……謝謝。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"劉秘書長建忻","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:23.138571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:25.710000+08:00","text":"跟委員一起研究，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:26.010000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:28.010000+08:00","text":"謝謝葉委員發言。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:28.310000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:32.881429+08:00","text":"現在委員們都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:33.181429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:45.181429+08:00","text":"委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或者是以書面答復者，請考試院及所屬機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-09T12:18:45.481429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-09T12:18:55.195714+08:00","text":"有關於伍麗華委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報，並且請相關機關以書面答復。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1161,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時11分）我請秘書長，還有銓敘部。"],["主席：請秘書長、銓敘部。"],["劉秘書長建忻：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：秘書長好。現在考試院從10月10號開始要針對公務人員新增3天的身心調適假。"],["劉秘書長建忻：是。"],["葉委員元之：身心調適假講得目標非常遠大，說是要呼應健康臺灣的願景，健康臺灣是賴總統提出來的嘛！呼應這個願景，所以要推出這3天的身心調適假，然後它的內容就是公務人員每年可以請3天，併入事假計算，然後以小時計，免醫療證明，主管不得拒絕，應該是這樣，沒錯吧？"],["劉秘書長建忻：是的。"],["葉委員元之：我不知道秘書長有沒有去跟基層公務人員聊過這個身心調適假？你覺得他們對這個身心調適假會有期待呢？還是覺得可有可無？你有沒有去了解一下基層公務人員的心聲？"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，因為今天才實施嘛！"],["葉委員元之：因為願景很……今天才實施沒錯啦，但是公務人員可以預期這個假對他來說是有用還是沒有用嘛！"],["施部長能傑：過去在討論的時候有跟一些機關討論……"],["葉委員元之：他們很期待這3天嗎？"],["施部長能傑：應該是說他們覺得這個假本身對調節身心來講，有需要的時候當然是有幫忙啊！"],["葉委員元之：確定？部長，我請問一下，現在是併入事假7天對不對？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["葉委員元之：公務人員一年請7天事假是不用扣薪的，對吧？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["葉委員元之：現在是7天事假如果有請3天身心調適假的話，那就還有4天事假是可以不用扣薪，沒錯吧？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["葉委員元之：對他來說有什麼差？請事假就好了啊！"],["施部長能傑：因為那個……"],["葉委員元之：一般來說，公務人員請假大部分其實不會請到事、病假，如果要請假的話，事假就寫「有事」就好了，他不用告訴你要幹嘛，我有事，在家裡面休息也算是有事啊！對不對？我只要說我有私事就可以請事假啊！又何必要去請身心調適假？請了身心調適假，主管還會覺得我是不是身心壓力太大還是怎麼樣，對我來講，會不會惹一些麻煩？所以我就請事假就好。今天如果新增身心調適假3天，不併入事假計算，是外加的，變成公務人員可以請10天有薪假，我是舉例，當然沒有一定要這樣做，10天，那就有差，但如果是給了3天，然後又併入事假，那哪有差？不信可以問我們在場立法院的公務人員，你問他們有沒有差？沒有差啦！根本沒有差，然後講的那個願景很偉大，好像說這是配合健康臺灣，有了這3天之後就不得了了，公務機關都健康了，我覺得這個有點太言過其實。"],["劉秘書長建忻：委員講的部分我覺得可能也反映一些人的想法，不過，第一個就是身心調適假機關不能拒絕。"],["葉委員元之：一般請事假也不會拒絕啦！"],["劉秘書長建忻：第二個，我們也不希望身心健康這個問題好像是一個污名化的議題，這也是社會觀念慢慢在轉變，大家越來越重視這一塊，所以也不用因為請身心調適假覺得有什麼被污名化的……"],["葉委員元之：沒有、沒有，我沒有說被污名化，我是說有些人怕麻煩嘛。"],["劉秘書長建忻：是。"],["葉委員元之：所以你現在是鼓勵大家請身心調適假，然後讓身心問題不要被污名化？訂這個假的目的是這個嗎？還是希望公務人員得到好的保障？"],["劉秘書長建忻：當然是希望可以正面面對……"],["葉委員元之：目的是哪一個？如果目的是要讓公務人員請假比較方便或者是讓他壓力變小，我覺得這樣的作法也許理想很豐滿，現實很骨感！"],["劉秘書長建忻：這個可以大家一起來討論。"],["葉委員元之：所以我覺得如果真的要重視這一塊的話，要想別的辦法，不是用這3天身心調適假來做。"],["劉秘書長建忻：前面我們報告過，除了假以外……"],["葉委員元之：就是說你加1天，比如7天事假加1天身心調適假，是外加的我覺得可能可以達到效果，但是你是併入，那就效果有限。"],["劉秘書長建忻：假是我們重視身心健康的其中一環，我們員工協助方案去協助員工這方面的議題，或是紓解身心壓力這個部分，其他部分都要一起做。"],["葉委員元之：第二，剛剛蔡易餘委員也有問，他說現在公務人員報考的或者特別是在工程類，地方政府都很缺嘛！我有跟一些基層公務員聊過，他們說兩件事情：第一個，公務人員現在的薪資其實跟業界比也不見得比得上，公務員剛進去的時候薪資不錯，但是到中高階的時候就趨緩了，沒有辦法跟業界的中高階來比。第二個，以前大家認為公務人員有一個比較完善的退休保障，但是自從政府年金改革之後，大家對於政府失去信任。我跟現在在職的公務人員聊天，我說年金如果讓它停扣的話對你有什麼影響？他說：「停扣喔！我退休還有20年，當然停扣是好的啊！但是我退休還有20年，我們的政府就改來改去，到最後又變了怎麼辦？」其實這件事情我覺得才是最大的危機，就是我們的一些優秀人才對於政府失去信任，當時招攬人才進入政府的時候，跟他講說你的退休一定會有保障，薪資可能稍微低一點，但是沒關係，你退休一定有保障，忽然間改了，完全失去信賴保障原則，而這個不是針對已經受影響的那些退休公務人員，是針對未來的人才、已經在職的年輕公務人員都是有影響，他們基本上是對政府失去信心，我覺得這件事情考試院應該也要正視，就是說要怎麼樣去扭轉這一切，我不知道部長或者是秘書長對於國民黨委員提出來的年金改革版本，你有了解嗎？"],["劉秘書長建忻：我們知道法案的內容。"],["葉委員元之：有沒有要恢復18%？"],["劉秘書長建忻：沒有18%。"],["葉委員元之：然後所得替代率是不是要回到之前的水準？有沒有？"],["劉秘書長建忻：也沒有回到原來的水準。"],["葉委員元之：也沒有嘛！對不對？因為外面現在有很多不知道是誤解還是故意傳說：哎呀！現在國民黨的年金改革就是要回到以前的水準，恢復18%，所得替代率恢復75。沒有嘛！現在是停扣嘛！"],["劉秘書長建忻：是。"],["葉委員元之：那停扣的目的是什麼？停扣的目的是大家做通盤檢討嘛！然後再來就是我覺得政府要展現一個態度，我們之前做了，但是沒關係，現在既然有這個聲音，好，我們就來通盤檢討一下，再一次給外界一個表達跟立場的說明。然後我覺得還有一件事就是我剛剛講的，你要喚回公務人員對政府的信任，因為這個不是只有對之前的公務人員，這對於我們招攬人才也都是有幫助的，我希望考試院可以往這個方向去啦！"],["劉秘書長建忻：我想基金財務如果不健全的話，大家也會對這個退休制度會有……"],["葉委員元之：那信任的問題呢？"],["劉秘書長建忻：是信任的問題，所以這個部分我覺得如果……委員剛剛講的沒有錯，就這個議題……"],["葉委員元之：就改來改去啊！所以你要檢討嘛！你要有一個完整論述……"],["劉秘書長建忻：大家來檢討一下整體的財務狀況……"],["葉委員元之：前面已經造成一些裂痕，要有一個完整論述嘛！"],["劉秘書長建忻：我們可以來呈現給大家……"],["葉委員元之：謝謝。"],["劉秘書長建忻：跟委員一起研究，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉委員發言。","現在委員們都已經發言完畢，詢答結束。委員質詢時要求提供相關資料或者是以書面答復者，請考試院及所屬機關儘速送交個別委員及本會。有關於伍麗華委員所提書面質詢列入紀錄，刊登公報，並且請相關機關以書面答復。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":190,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-2","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","吳宗憲","王義川","王鴻薇","林倩綺","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","吳思瑤","張啓楷","陳培瑜","羅智強","蔡易餘","葉元之","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":103,"meetingDate":["2025-10-09"],"gazette_id":"1148102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148102_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請考試院秘書長、考選部部長、銓敘部部長及公務人員保障暨培訓委員會主任委員列席報告業\n務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148102_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}