{"error":false,"id":["164357"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":164357,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164357","日期":"2025-10-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,22],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-10-20T09:51:43+08:00","結束時間":"2025-10-20T09:59:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1b48b57e4ea44927d36d84cc432149c84b83c966d97180d5d214d5e53a528fd4095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"萬美玲","委員發言時間":"09:51:43 - 09:59:07","會議時間":"2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":1.51596875,"end":2.8997187500000003,"speaker_score":0.84},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":4.097843750000001,"end":6.24096875,"speaker_score":0.84},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":9.869093750000001,"end":11.759093750000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":10.10534375,"end":10.341593750000001,"speaker_score":0.84},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":12.31596875,"end":18.660968750000002,"speaker_score":0.84},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":18.15471875,"end":20.48346875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":20.88846875,"end":25.86659375,"speaker_score":0.84},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":24.31409375,"end":28.07721875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":29.528468750000002,"end":37.62846875,"speaker_score":0.84},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":37.89846875,"end":54.95909375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":56.66346875,"end":64.74659375,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":64.83096875000001,"end":64.88159375000001,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":64.88159375000001,"end":83.39346875000001,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":66.07971875,"end":69.52221875000001,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":70.38284375,"end":70.77096875000001,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":84.06846875000001,"end":84.25409375000001,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":84.27096875000001,"end":102.93471875,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":99.66096875000001,"end":113.32971875000001,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":110.59596875000001,"end":119.08409375000001,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":119.91096875000001,"end":129.24284375000002,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":128.29784375,"end":132.85409375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":129.27659375000002,"end":129.29346875000002,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":129.31034375000002,"end":129.37784375,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":129.39471875,"end":129.81659375,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":133.36034375,"end":134.11971875,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":134.30534375000002,"end":141.00471875,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":140.95409375,"end":145.49346875,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":142.74284375000002,"end":147.53534375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":145.86471875,"end":149.45909375000002,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":148.31159375000001,"end":173.11784375000002,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":170.67096875000001,"end":175.64909375000002,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":174.65346875,"end":175.54784375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":175.85159375,"end":175.88534375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":175.88534375,"end":176.00346875000002,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":176.00346875000002,"end":176.76284375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"鄭部長英耀","start":176.27346875,"end":181.72409375,"speaker_score":0.821},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":177.03284375,"end":177.97784375,"speaker_score":0.946},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"翁委員曉玲","start":177.97784375,"end":178.04534375,"speaker_score":0.84},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"萬委員美玲","start":178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接下來請萬委員 可以好 謝謝趙薇 我們有請部長不好意思 因為今天部長有提前請假他9點50分之後他請假 這麼重要的議題 為什麼可以請假之後10點有公務 還是說可是如果部長不在的話 這個問題 質詢就沒有代表性啦"},{"start":29.662,"end":54.734,"text":"因為之前有提 要不然就請萬委員執行完之後 讓部長再理解因為我之前已經有同意部長然後接下來就會請政治代替好 謝謝 謝謝我們召委我想部長真的不好意思 我一定得要請教您剛才您在這個備詢的這個最尾端說好 我們會來努力我想我給您一點時間 您告訴我針對這個我們年輕的這個部分 這個議題 您要怎麼努力"},{"start":56.721,"end":82.793,"text":"我想跟委員報告這一個他確實是當時的設立這一個年金的一個修改就是在一個世代的附註是啦那另外也跟委員報告我們其實看到我問你一個啦我今天看到您提出的書面報告您提出的報告上是寫說不建議修法來停砍年金這樣的一個說法這樣的報告這個立場是您本人的立場嗎"},{"start":84.47,"end":112.77,"text":"我其實跟委員報告就是說我們看到平均85%以上的這些老師是上次月退休金是5.8萬以上那以這一個再加上我們全民健保我們的這一個長照部長我只問您啦你講的這些我都有看但我就問您這是不是你個人主張的立場我們不建議修法停砍年金這是您個人主張的嗎但是部長您是整個教育的大家長"},{"start":113.65,"end":132.653,"text":"持平的論我在橫租我們台灣的各項的一個對退休這一個教師的一個退休的一個照顧我想怎麼樣去適當而能夠滿足他退休安全的一個這一個生活部長啊您的書面報告到底是不了寫的還是你有看過呀"},{"start":133.393,"end":148.43,"text":"我看過的您看過那請問一下針對今天的書面報告您本人的主張到底是不是不建議修改這個停凱年金基本上我是這樣認為因為我們有非常完善的一個您今天這麼清楚的這個全民健保跟這一哥"},{"start":148.49,"end":174.927,"text":"您今天這麼清楚的去講您個人的主張是不建議修法這個停砍這件事情我想真的是讓我們今天所有的教師會感到非常非常的痛心也非常的失望因為您是這個教育界的大家長但是理應是最理解我們教師的辛苦也理應是最會捍衛我們老師的權益的如果連部長也都反對停砍那個年輕捍衛老師的退休的一個權益的照顧我想"},{"start":176.608,"end":192.277,"text":"現有的制度再加上我們中央跟地方的許多的主席把我的時間停止一下對 麻煩部長請尊重委員的發言抱歉 發言完之後您再回答來 好 請開始謝謝趙偉我想因為您這個說得也很清楚了"},{"start":192.777,"end":221.356,"text":"如果您個人是這樣的建議那本席認為聽在所有我們基層老師的這個耳裡啊他們會非常痛心的因為呢您應該是最了解我們所有基層老師的辛苦也最了解現在在教育現場第一線的不容易喔那麼您現在喔這麼具體的反對這個停函年金喔等於是告訴全國的教師我並沒有反對以現階段來看它是一個虛張的問題您剛剛有講您反對嘛這是您的立場嘛您等於啊是告訴全國的老師你們現在這些辛苦的付出喔其實是不值得被保障的啦"},{"start":222.937,"end":239.393,"text":"照顧 我想喔 我告訴你兩個喔 本席告訴你兩個 其實你自己心裡也知道 但我不知道你有什麼為難之處喔 我告訴你兩個年金停砍必須要停的這個兩大理由 第一個我們的所得替代率啊 已經砍到比勞工還要低了喔"},{"start":239.893,"end":263.706,"text":"我們退休的教師目前的這個所得替代率從107年到現在114年已經被砍了9%如果我們以年資30年的退休老師來看我們的所得替代率已經從67.5%降到了58.5%如果再往下砍我們就要低於勞工退休平均的替代率58%這是第一個那麼第二個呢退休縫的條性啊"},{"start":264.927,"end":282.722,"text":"我們比不上現代的公務人員我們看到107年到現在現任的公務人員調薪11%退休人員我們退休人員只有6%足足差了5%所以我們看到如果我們的所得替代率比勞工還低我們調薪又比公務員也來得還不如"},{"start":283.362,"end":287.608,"text":"我就不理解您是我們教育的大家長怎麼不知道要捍衛他們的權益所以我想部長你不要在這裡背詢聽後面跟你搖耳朵然後就來轉述自己不能了解"},{"start":299.266,"end":322.313,"text":"我覺得這樣是非常不好的啦那我想您從上任到現在喔大家都覺得你對教育其實很認真但是希望這件事情呢你剛剛說我們在努力我們希望你要努力捍衛我們這個教室的權益啦那當然我覺得上有政策但你下要摸著自己良心怎麼為這些老師來捍衛他們的權益喔那當然還剩一點時間喔今天要跟你討論的就是喔"},{"start":323.581,"end":349.989,"text":"我們在公務人員身心調適假的這件事情上面我想我們在教文委員會也聽過很多次全區部目前修正公務人員請假的規則也就是教育部同步修正了教師請假的規則讓我們的公務員跟教師10月10號開始起我們都有三天的身心調適假當然這個是很好可是您知道嗎新版的規定這三天身心調適假跟原本的七天的家庭照顧假"},{"start":350.989,"end":359.173,"text":"併入喔 這一年只有7天的不扣薪試駕要併入啊 所以事實上喔這個就跟我們現在這個行政院在講什麼生一胎10萬塊就要併入我們的這個社會保險一樣的喔 我覺得有點畫大餅啦所以呢 我想喔"},{"start":367.216,"end":392.972,"text":"部長是不是能夠在身心調適價上面我覺得要能夠做一些爭取能不能夠教育部跟權序部把這三天的身心調適價我們獨立出來從不扣薪的市價把它獨立出來讓我們真正所謂的三天的身心調適價能夠落實部長您的看法呢我想我也非常感謝委員關心委員也非常清楚因為"},{"start":394.152,"end":412.36,"text":"確實在整個金空教整個整個整體的考量我們老師只要請假他必須要他的課程必須要有人代理那這個部分過去試下是他要致富的那這個跟這個聲音調適教我們是由教育部跟地方國立的教育部全額補助然後"},{"start":413.416,"end":440.702,"text":"就縣市政府的這些國民教育的部分是由教育部跟地方共同合作來你應該在提的是代理代課教師的問題嘛對不對那一個全部都是包含在一邊的我跟你講每一個政策他會衍生出來很多我們應該要一併去解決的問題但不是因為會衍生出來那些問題我們就把最主要這個權益給砍掉所以我想今天我們提出來兩個問題我們希望部長回去好好替我們教育界替基層老師來想想怎麼捍衛他的權益好不好一定的謝謝謝謝委員"},{"start":442.844,"end":442.985,"text":"好 謝謝萬永遠"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:51:53.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:51:55.765000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，有請部長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:51:55.765000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:01.068000+08:00","text":"不好意思，因為今天部長有提前請假，所以他9點50分之後就會先離開。","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:01.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:01.568000+08:00","text":"他請假？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:01.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:03.189000+08:00","text":"這麼重要的議題為什麼可以請假？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:05.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:06.791000+08:00","text":"10點之後有公務，還是要不要再等萬美玲委員……","quality":0.389},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:07.631000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:10.553000+08:00","text":"如果部長不在，質詢這個問題就沒有代表性！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:12.662000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:16.424000+08:00","text":"因為之前有提出，要不然就請萬委員質詢完之後，部長再離開。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:16.924000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:20.306000+08:00","text":"因為我之前已經有同意部長，接下來就會請政次代替。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:22.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:23.267000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:24.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:27.289000+08:00","text":"部長真的不好意思，我一定得要請教您。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:28.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:37.714000+08:00","text":"剛才您在備詢的最尾端說：「我們會來努力」，我給您一點時間，你告訴我，針對年金這個議題，你要怎麼努力？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:43.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:47.384000+08:00","text":"當時年金的修改就是世代的互助。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:49.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:52:52.147000+08:00","text":"另外也跟委員報告，我們其實看到……是啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:52:52.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:05.793000+08:00","text":"你一直都是這樣講，沒有……部長，我問你一個，我今天看到您提出的書面報告寫不建議修法停砍年金，這樣的說法、這樣的報告是您本人的立場嗎？","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:09.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:22.801000+08:00","text":"我們看到平均85%以上的老師事實上月退休金是5.8萬以上，再加上全民健保、長照對退休老師的扶助……","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:23.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:30.026000+08:00","text":"部長，你講的這些我都有看，但我就問您，這是不是你個人主張的立場？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:30.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:33.668000+08:00","text":"不建議修法停砍年金，這是您個人主張的嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:33.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:35.770000+08:00","text":"但我想部長是整個教育的大家長……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:36.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:51.308000+08:00","text":"就許多政策，持平而論，衡諸臺灣對教師各項退休的照顧，怎麼樣適當而且能夠滿足他退休安全的生活……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:51.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:55.633000+08:00","text":"部長，您的書面報告到底是幕僚寫的，還是你有看過？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:56.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:56.894000+08:00","text":"我看過的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:57.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:53:57.995000+08:00","text":"您看過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:53:58.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:03.881000+08:00","text":"請問一下，針對今天的書面報告，您本人的主張到底是不是不建議修改停砍年金？","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:04.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:06.965000+08:00","text":"基本上，我是這樣認為，因為我們有非常完善的全民健保跟長照……","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:07.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:32.284000+08:00","text":"您今天這麼清楚地講，您個人的主張是不建議修法停砍這件事情，真的是讓所有教師感到非常、非常的痛心，也非常失望，因為您是教育界的大家長，理應是最理解教師的辛苦，也理應是最會捍衛老師權益的。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:32.944000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:34.805000+08:00","text":"如果連部長都反對停砍年金……","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:35.005000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:43.330000+08:00","text":"捍衛老師退休權益的照顧，我想現有的制度再加上中央跟地方許多其他政策的扶助……","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:43.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:44.911000+08:00","text":"主席，把我的時間停止一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:46.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:48.653000+08:00","text":"麻煩部長，請尊重委員的發言。抱歉！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:48.793000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:49.734000+08:00","text":"委員發言完之後，你再回答。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:51.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:51.135000+08:00","text":"請開始。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:52.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:54:52.936000+08:00","text":"謝謝召委。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:54:53.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:55:02.221000+08:00","text":"因為部長說得也很清楚了，如果您個人是這樣的建議，本席認為聽在所有基層老師的耳裡，他們會非常痛心。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:55:02.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:55:15.050000+08:00","text":"因為你應該最了解所有基層老師的辛苦，也最了解現在在教育現場第一線的不容易，您現在這麼具體地反對停砍年金，等於是告訴全國教師……","quality":0.948},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:55:15.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:55:16.391000+08:00","text":"我並沒有反對，以現階段來看，它是一個適當、合理的。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:55:16.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:55:18.953000+08:00","text":"您剛剛有講您反對，這是你的立場。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:55:19.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:55:24.256000+08:00","text":"你等於是告訴全國的老師，你們現在這些辛苦的付出，其實是不值得被保障的。","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:55:24.256000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T09:55:27.359000+08:00","text":"我們現在怎麼樣去照顧……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:55:27.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:55:32.964000+08:00","text":"我告訴你兩個理由，其實你自己心裡也知道，但我不知道你有什麼為難之處。","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:55:33.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:56:03.685000+08:00","text":"我告訴你年金必須要停砍的兩大理由：第一個，老師的所得替代率已經砍到比勞工還要低了，退休教師的所得替代率從107年到現在114年已經被砍了9%，如果以年資30年的退休老師來看，所得替代率已經從67.5%降到了58.5%，如果再往下砍，就要低於勞工退休平均的替代率58%。","quality":0.972},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:56:03.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:56:04.685000+08:00","text":"這是第一個。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:56:04.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:56:28.605000+08:00","text":"第二個，退休俸的調薪比不上現任公務人員，我們看到107年到現在，現任公務人員調薪11%，退休人員只有6%，足足差了5%，如果老師的所得替代率比勞工還低，調薪又比公務員還來得不如，我就不理解，您是教育的大家長，怎麼不知道要捍衛他們的權益？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:56:28.605000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T09:56:29.605000+08:00","text":"事實上，老師的月退比勞工還高，因為勞工……","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:56:29.046000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:56:43.386000+08:00","text":"部長，你不要在這裡備詢，卻聽後面跟你咬耳朵就來轉述，自己不能了解，我覺得這樣是非常不好的。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:56:44.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:56:54.310000+08:00","text":"您從上任到現在，大家都覺得你對教育其實很認真，但是針對這件事情，你剛剛說：「我們在努力」，我們希望你要努力捍衛教師的權益。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:56:54.310000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T09:56:55.470000+08:00","text":"我們對現任老師……","quality":0},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:56:55.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:57:02.012000+08:00","text":"當然我覺得上有政策，但你下要摸著自己良心，怎麼為這些老師來捍衛他們的權益。","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:57:03.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:57:13.183000+08:00","text":"還剩一點時間，今天也要跟你討論公務人員的身心調適假，我們在教文委員會也提過很多次。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:57:14.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:57:24.866000+08:00","text":"銓敘部目前修正公務人員請假規則，教育部也同步修正了教師請假規則，讓公務員跟教師10月10號開始都有3天的身心調適假。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:57:25.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:57:28.307000+08:00","text":"當然這個很好，可是您知道嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:57:28.307000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:57:41.993000+08:00","text":"依據新版的規定，這3天身心調適假跟原本7天的家庭照顧假要併入一年只有7天的不扣薪事假，所以事實上這就跟現在行政院在講的生一胎10萬塊一樣，結果要併入社會保險，我覺得有點畫大餅。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:57:50.216000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:57:54.939000+08:00","text":"部長是不是能夠在身心調適假上面做一些爭取？","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:57:55.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:58:10.829000+08:00","text":"教育部跟銓敘部能不能夠把這3天的身心調適假從不扣薪的事假獨立出來，讓3天的身心調適假真正能夠落實？","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:58:10.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:58:11.789000+08:00","text":"部長，您的看法呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:58:13.470000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:58:42.897000+08:00","text":"非常感謝委員關心，委員也非常清楚，因為確實在軍公教整體的考量，老師只要請假，他的課程必須要有人代理，過去事假是他要自付的，而身心調適假是由教育部跟地方負擔，國立的由教育部全額補助，就縣市政府國民教育的部分，是由中央教育部跟地方共同合作來負擔……","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:58:43.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:58:45.718000+08:00","text":"您剛才提的是代理代課教師的問題，對不對？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:58:46.438000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:58:47.518000+08:00","text":"沒有，全部都是包含在裡面。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:58:47.898000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:58:55.860000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，每一個政策都會衍生出很多我們應該要一併去解決的問題，但不是因為會衍生出那些問題，我們就把最主要的權益給砍掉。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"萬委員美玲","start":"2025-10-20T09:58:56.760000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:59:02.942000+08:00","text":"今天我提出兩個問題，希望部長回去好好替教育界、替基層老師來想想怎麼捍衛他的權益，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:59:03.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:59:03.682000+08:00","text":"一定的。謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"鄭部長英耀","start":"2025-10-20T09:59:03.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:59:03.702000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指導。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:59:05.965000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T09:59:05.965000+08:00","text":"謝謝萬委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T09:59:06.465000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T09:59:09.607857+08:00","text":"接下來請陳培瑜委員發言。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":305,"blocks":[["萬委員美玲：（9時52分）謝謝召委，有請部長。"],["主席：不好意思，因為今天部長有提前請假，所以他9點50分之後就會先離開。"],["萬委員美玲：他請假？這麼重要的議題為什麼可以請假？"],["主席：10點之後有公務，還是要不要再等萬美玲委員……"],["萬委員美玲：如果部長不在，質詢這個問題就沒有代表性！"],["主席：因為之前有提出，要不然就請萬委員質詢完之後，部長再離開。因為我之前已經有同意部長，接下來就會請政次代替。"],["萬委員美玲：謝謝召委。部長真的不好意思，我一定得要請教您。剛才您在備詢的最尾端說：「我們會來努力」，我給您一點時間，你告訴我，針對年金這個議題，你要怎麼努力？"],["鄭部長英耀：當時年金的修改就是世代的互助。另外也跟委員報告，我們其實看到……"],["萬委員美玲：是啦！你一直都是這樣講，沒有……部長，我問你一個，我今天看到您提出的書面報告寫不建議修法停砍年金，這樣的說法、這樣的報告是您本人的立場嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們看到平均85%以上的老師事實上月退休金是5.8萬以上，再加上全民健保、長照對退休老師的扶助……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，你講的這些我都有看，但我就問您，這是不是你個人主張的立場？不建議修法停砍年金，這是您個人主張的嗎？但我想部長是整個教育的大家長……"],["鄭部長英耀：就許多政策，持平而論，衡諸臺灣對教師各項退休的照顧，怎麼樣適當而且能夠滿足他退休安全的生活……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，您的書面報告到底是幕僚寫的，還是你有看過？"],["鄭部長英耀：我看過的。"],["萬委員美玲：您看過？請問一下，針對今天的書面報告，您本人的主張到底是不是不建議修改停砍年金？"],["鄭部長英耀：基本上，我是這樣認為，因為我們有非常完善的全民健保跟長照……"],["萬委員美玲：您今天這麼清楚地講，您個人的主張是不建議修法停砍這件事情，真的是讓所有教師感到非常、非常的痛心，也非常失望，因為您是教育界的大家長，理應是最理解教師的辛苦，也理應是最會捍衛老師權益的。如果連部長都反對停砍年金……"],["鄭部長英耀：捍衛老師退休權益的照顧，我想現有的制度再加上中央跟地方許多其他政策的扶助……"],["萬委員美玲：主席，把我的時間停止一下。"],["主席：麻煩部長，請尊重委員的發言。"],["鄭部長英耀：抱歉！"],["主席：委員發言完之後，你再回答。請開始。"],["萬委員美玲：謝謝召委。因為部長說得也很清楚了，如果您個人是這樣的建議，本席認為聽在所有基層老師的耳裡，他們會非常痛心。因為你應該最了解所有基層老師的辛苦，也最了解現在在教育現場第一線的不容易，您現在這麼具體地反對停砍年金，等於是告訴全國教師……"],["鄭部長英耀：我並沒有反對，以現階段來看，它是一個適當、合理的。"],["萬委員美玲：您剛剛有講您反對，這是你的立場。你等於是告訴全國的老師，你們現在這些辛苦的付出，其實是不值得被保障的。"],["鄭部長英耀：我們現在怎麼樣去照顧……"],["萬委員美玲：我告訴你兩個理由，其實你自己心裡也知道，但我不知道你有什麼為難之處。我告訴你年金必須要停砍的兩大理由：第一個，老師的所得替代率已經砍到比勞工還要低了，退休教師的所得替代率從107年到現在114年已經被砍了9%，如果以年資30年的退休老師來看，所得替代率已經從67.5%降到了58.5%，如果再往下砍，就要低於勞工退休平均的替代率58%。這是第一個。第二個，退休俸的調薪比不上現任公務人員，我們看到107年到現在，現任公務人員調薪11%，退休人員只有6%，足足差了5%，如果老師的所得替代率比勞工還低，調薪又比公務員還來得不如，我就不理解，您是教育的大家長，怎麼不知道要捍衛他們的權益？"],["鄭部長英耀：事實上，老師的月退比勞工還高，因為勞工……"],["萬委員美玲：部長，你不要在這裡備詢，卻聽後面跟你咬耳朵就來轉述，自己不能了解，我覺得這樣是非常不好的。您從上任到現在，大家都覺得你對教育其實很認真，但是針對這件事情，你剛剛說：「我們在努力」，我們希望你要努力捍衛教師的權益。"],["鄭部長英耀：我們對現任老師……"],["萬委員美玲：當然我覺得上有政策，但你下要摸著自己良心，怎麼為這些老師來捍衛他們的權益。","還剩一點時間，今天也要跟你討論公務人員的身心調適假，我們在教文委員會也提過很多次。銓敘部目前修正公務人員請假規則，教育部也同步修正了教師請假規則，讓公務員跟教師10月10號開始都有3天的身心調適假。當然這個很好，可是您知道嗎？依據新版的規定，這3天身心調適假跟原本7天的家庭照顧假要併入一年只有7天的不扣薪事假，所以事實上這就跟現在行政院在講的生一胎10萬塊一樣，結果要併入社會保險，我覺得有點畫大餅。部長是不是能夠在身心調適假上面做一些爭取？教育部跟銓敘部能不能夠把這3天的身心調適假從不扣薪的事假獨立出來，讓3天的身心調適假真正能夠落實？部長，您的看法呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：非常感謝委員關心，委員也非常清楚，因為確實在軍公教整體的考量，老師只要請假，他的課程必須要有人代理，過去事假是他要自付的，而身心調適假是由教育部跟地方負擔，國立的由教育部全額補助，就縣市政府國民教育的部分，是由中央教育部跟地方共同合作來負擔……"],["萬委員美玲：您剛才提的是代理代課教師的問題，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，全部都是包含在裡面。"],["萬委員美玲：我跟你講，每一個政策都會衍生出很多我們應該要一併去解決的問題，但不是因為會衍生出那些問題，我們就把最主要的權益給砍掉。今天我提出兩個問題，希望部長回去好好替教育界、替基層老師來想想怎麼捍衛他的權益，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：一定的。"],["萬委員美玲：謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝萬委員。","接下來請陳培瑜委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","speakers":["翁曉玲","賴士葆","張智倫","許宇甄","黃健豪","林倩綺","黃國昌","王義川","柯志恩","陳培瑜","萬美玲","劉書彬","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","范雲","黃建賓","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳沛憶","葉元之","陳秀寳","沈發惠","謝龍介","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","傅崐萁"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草\n案」案；( 二) 國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案；(三)委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條\n文修正草案」案；(四)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條\n文修正草案」案；(五)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(七)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；(八)委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(九)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(十)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}