{"error":false,"id":["164444"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":164444,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/164444","日期":"2025-10-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[36,22],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會","教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-10-20T12:35:12+08:00","結束時間":"2025-10-20T12:42:27+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:15","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/03f010abd9bb8d1b2fb599bae9a180876d84cc432149c84b83c966d97180d5d2b79a220842b8dbde5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"12:35:12 - 12:42:27","會議時間":"2025-10-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：併案審查\n（一）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":5.98784375,"end":19.58909375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":19.28534375,"end":21.79971875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":19.69034375,"end":20.247218750000002,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":21.91784375,"end":27.840968750000002,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":28.49909375,"end":31.01346875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":32.025968750000004,"end":37.22346875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":37.814093750000005,"end":40.80096875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":41.22284375,"end":42.21846875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":42.48846875,"end":42.977843750000005,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":43.68659375,"end":44.462843750000005,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":45.289718750000006,"end":46.690343750000004,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":48.02346875,"end":49.710968750000006,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":49.845968750000004,"end":50.85846875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":51.516593750000006,"end":54.85784375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":55.24596875,"end":55.58346875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":57.304718750000006,"end":58.84034375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":59.734718750000006,"end":61.118468750000005,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":62.62034375,"end":66.68721875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":67.63221875,"end":68.40846875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":68.71221875,"end":71.19284375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":72.03659375000001,"end":72.86346875000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":73.13346875,"end":77.09909375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":78.55034375000001,"end":79.05659375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":79.36034375,"end":80.35596875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":80.44034375000001,"end":80.94659375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":81.31784375000001,"end":81.95909375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":83.05596875,"end":87.32534375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":88.03409375000001,"end":90.98721875000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":91.89846875,"end":92.72534375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":93.97409375000001,"end":97.04534375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":96.69096875000001,"end":96.97784375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":97.04534375,"end":97.11284375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":97.11284375000001,"end":97.23096875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":97.23096875,"end":97.24784375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":97.24784375,"end":98.31096875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":98.31096875,"end":98.32784375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":99.23909375000001,"end":99.30659375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":99.30659375,"end":101.33159375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":102.52971875,"end":104.36909375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":105.51659375000001,"end":106.27596875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":106.88346875,"end":108.25034375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":109.27971875,"end":109.88721875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":112.35096875,"end":112.97534375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":113.29596875,"end":115.15221875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":114.47721875,"end":117.39659375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":118.20659375000001,"end":118.66221875000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":118.79721875000001,"end":119.37096875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":120.34971875000001,"end":122.69534375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":120.58596875,"end":122.77971875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":122.77971875,"end":125.85096875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":123.65721875000001,"end":124.04534375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":126.34034375,"end":126.35721875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":126.35721875,"end":126.64409375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":126.96471875,"end":128.12909375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":129.07409375,"end":129.10784375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":129.10784375,"end":129.96846875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":129.96846875,"end":130.22159375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":130.22159375,"end":132.31409375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":130.23846875,"end":130.40721875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":131.89221875,"end":133.81596875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":134.40659375,"end":137.37659375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":137.84909375,"end":141.29159375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":141.84846875,"end":143.51909375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":144.22784375,"end":155.85471875000002,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":156.64784375000002,"end":161.72721875000002,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":162.43596875,"end":162.87471875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":163.09409375,"end":169.54034375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":170.04659375,"end":170.83971875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":172.17284375,"end":172.83096875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":174.07971875,"end":182.07846875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":181.74096875,"end":191.64659375000002,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":192.37221875,"end":194.43096875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":194.32971875,"end":194.81909375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":194.68409375000002,"end":208.42034375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":208.58909375000002,"end":210.58034375000003,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":211.06971875000002,"end":211.17096875000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":211.44096875000002,"end":214.12409375000001,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":215.22096875000003,"end":225.63284375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":225.91971875000002,"end":229.78409375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":230.12159375000002,"end":234.34034375000002,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":235.09971875000002,"end":235.62284375000002,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":236.41596875000002,"end":237.61409375000002,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":237.90096875,"end":241.56284375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":241.86659375000002,"end":253.81409375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":254.38784375000003,"end":255.65346875000003,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":256.49721875,"end":258.01596875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":259.34909375,"end":260.44596875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":261.50909375000003,"end":261.91409375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":262.55534375,"end":264.79971875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":265.20471875000004,"end":275.44784375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":276.25784375,"end":281.65784375000004,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":282.60284375000003,"end":283.54784375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":283.63221875,"end":288.00284375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":288.25596875,"end":288.69471875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":289.06596875,"end":291.98534375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":293.31846875,"end":293.77409375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":294.70221875000004,"end":295.51221875000005,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":295.96784375000004,"end":296.03534375000004,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":296.27159375,"end":297.11534375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":297.13221875,"end":298.34721875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":298.46534375000005,"end":306.59909375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":306.86909375000005,"end":308.15159375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":309.07971875000004,"end":309.50159375000004,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":310.41284375000004,"end":313.39971875000003,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":313.90596875,"end":315.15471875000003,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":315.55971875,"end":315.98159375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":316.89284375,"end":323.32221875000005,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":323.94659375000003,"end":329.07659375000003,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":329.19471875000005,"end":329.24534375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":329.24534375,"end":329.29596875000004,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":329.29596875000004,"end":330.98346875000004,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":329.32971875000004,"end":330.67971875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":330.98346875000004,"end":331.08471875000004,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":331.25346875,"end":332.16471875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":332.67096875000004,"end":335.82659375000003,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":335.99534375,"end":336.02909375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":336.07971875000004,"end":338.20596875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":338.45909375,"end":341.61471875,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":341.96909375,"end":346.39034375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":346.42409375,"end":348.65159375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":348.31409375000004,"end":357.20721875000004,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":357.94971875000005,"end":358.77659375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":359.67096875000004,"end":360.75096875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":361.30784375,"end":374.33534375000005,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":374.90909375,"end":382.84034375000005,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":384.47721875,"end":384.89909375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":384.89909375,"end":384.96659375,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":384.96659375,"end":385.35471875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":386.11409375000005,"end":388.91534375000003,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":387.27846875,"end":401.63909375000003,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":392.35784375000003,"end":392.74596875000003,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":402.21284375000005,"end":403.34346875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":403.71471875000003,"end":422.15909375,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":422.96909375,"end":425.17971875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":425.65221875000003,"end":428.47034375000004,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":428.90909375,"end":430.51221875000005,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":430.78221875,"end":432.70596875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"賴委員士葆","start":432.89159375,"end":433.51596875,"speaker_score":0.873},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":433.66784375000003,"end":434.54534375000003,"speaker_score":0.841},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"朱次長俊彰","start":435.49034375,"end":436.72221875,"speaker_score":0.841}],"whisperx":[{"start":6.384,"end":30.633,"text":"謝謝主席 有請教育部的長官 權序部的長官兩位次長 還有人事行政總署的張副總人事長好不好 三位長官兩位次長 還有副人事長因為我時間很短 所以我只有一個問題就是教育部的長官要不要跟我們講一下現在已經砍了七年了吧"},{"start":32.422,"end":60.963,"text":"這個stop here而且現在來講的話我們一直講國民所的瓦占都瓦占你照顧等於說這個政府現在很奇怪照顧全部除了要公教人員就公教人員手不軟這個我們可以想一想喔你可以想一想喔原來我們普發現金一萬的時候行政院都印了不發執政黨團不發到後來通通要了"},{"start":62.659,"end":81.737,"text":"以現在來講的話你清楚看得到我剛才在提案說明我就講了我就講了到現在為止如果加上明年度的話加上明年度我們給勞保的撥補有5000億左右請問交易部的市場我們年金"},{"start":83.6,"end":109.697,"text":"這個公立大學的公立學校的教職員到今年底這樣子可以要砍多少下來砍多少下來不是 金額 全部金額金額 對 對 節省多少你都不知道啊 你都不知道在這裡要講啊省多少嘛 省多少錢嘛省多少"},{"start":112.406,"end":122.053,"text":"省多少不只133千例左右了多少從開始107年到現在107到現在已經回補一柱1321不是有3000例嗎"},{"start":129.116,"end":155.496,"text":"教育人員的部分是一三二一一三二一教育人員一三二一就砍了一三二一嘛 對不對那難道你不站在教育人員的一個角度上這個未來可不可以不要砍了就這麼簡單一個訴求我們多少委員提案就這樣子STEP HERE 七年呢他原來是十年嘛 對不對我們就少三年 物價上升其他的所得其他的都一直漲"},{"start":156.824,"end":170.573,"text":"這是一個訴求這個教育部照理講應該替教育人員講話對不對結果我們看到其他的部會都是替他們部會相關人員講話獨獨教育部也不敢講也不知道為什麼你要不要講一下"},{"start":174.713,"end":191.378,"text":"跟委員會報告 因為維持現行規定應該是相對限職跟退休人員是一個比較永續的做法什麼叫永續 你們說如果這樣子的話會提早破產三到四年 請問那是民國幾年的事情"},{"start":192.418,"end":210.245,"text":"民國幾年會破產 129129現在多少 11415年以後的事情我們很多人不知道15年以後還在不在咧你要考慮15年以後的事情這個東西我覺得這個東西太抽象太空泛而且非常不實際的現在來講你看那個潛艦幾百億"},{"start":215.85,"end":234.04,"text":"這個潛艦快變成這個爛尾艦一樣 這樣子清 這樣子炸 這樣子花七年來如果你是一億三多一年就兩百億左右一年差不多兩百億左右 對不對兩百億可以不可以就不要再砍了就是這樣而已啊那你用其他的什麼理由說啊 這個是永續啦是什麼之類的"},{"start":235.14,"end":259.843,"text":"我覺得 沒有說服力啦沒有說服力 你們的報告裡面也寫啦你現在寫啦 說現在平均他的所得是5.8高於主計總書公佈的這個經常性薪資4.6那是去年喔 今年不止 今年5萬多囉今年已經5萬多囉已經5萬多 你要不要調整今年已經5萬多了"},{"start":262.654,"end":281.315,"text":"今年已經五萬多了不是四萬多當然他中位數沒有這麼高啦但是平均數已經是五萬多了接近你這個了所以我們的訴求其實就是苦民所苦啦你對陳建仁那時候是負責的年金整個改革總負責人總舵手他講的"},{"start":282.899,"end":309.3,"text":"軍公教 勞 一起改結果勞到現在為止完全沒有改勞就是一直補 一直補補到明年的預算加起來五千億教咧你要繼續砍這不通啊整個不通啊這個賴清德總統都說台灣現在經濟成長 瓦占度瓦占GDP成長多少多少要全民共享為什麼退休人員你就"},{"start":310.475,"end":323.007,"text":"沒辦法就給他照顧一下好 第二個問題就是那我們現在講的說以前是四年調整一次可以不可以改成兩年調整一次你們的看法怎麼樣"},{"start":324.153,"end":345.791,"text":"跟委員報告因為目前的規定是只要正負5%CPI但是如果要調整的話事實上可能還要也要兼顧到限值的跟限值的一個差異跟橫貧的部分啦以及目前的像陸委員講的目前平均上來講已經是5.8%85%是在五萬塊"},{"start":348.814,"end":349.955,"text":"這個問題是這個平均薪資已經五萬多了已經五萬多了換句話說現在的"},{"start":358.344,"end":381.197,"text":"這個叫啊叫的人員啊他已經是很辛苦了啦已經到樓地板了啦不要再砍了啦就這樣子一個很簡單的訴求嘛然後這個未來要隨著隨著軍工就要調整他可以調整吧你們同意再調整吧我們現在是依照CPI增幅5%跟每4年調事實上從年改到現在已經調過兩次6%了幾年調6%"},{"start":387.51,"end":401.309,"text":"對嘛 就七年調六趴一年一趴嘛所以我才講說那乾脆我們就兩年 然後三趴就這個意思啦好 時間到了 時間很短了所以我就不多講了就是告訴各位就告訴大家"},{"start":402.27,"end":421.76,"text":"我們政府對勞保是這樣對軍工特別是公教是另外一個嘴臉完全正式考量這可怕的地方在這裡我覺得你現在今天在這裡回答你也不敢回答你這個都是造本宣科反正這個樣子反正我們立法院來改嘛因為民眾黨跟我們合起來民眾黨的"},{"start":423.021,"end":436.282,"text":"他只是一個堅持我聽到的是說不是回到原來的我們是說stop here不要繼續看我覺得你們應該好好去認真思考這個問題好 謝謝好 謝謝大委員知道好 謝謝大委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:35:18.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:35:18.584000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:35:19.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:35:31.189000+08:00","text":"有請教育部的長官、銓敘部的長官，有兩位次長，還有人事行政總處的張副人事長，共三位長官。","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:35:31.549000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:35:34.010000+08:00","text":"請兩位次長及副人事長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:35:34.010000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:35:35.010000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:35:34.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:35:42.613000+08:00","text":"因為我時間很短，所以我只有一個問題，教育部的長官要不要跟我們講一下，現在已經砍七年了吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:35:44.522000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:35:44.883000+08:00","text":"Stop here！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:35:45.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:00.374000+08:00","text":"而且現在來講，我們一直講國民所得有多好又多好，這個政府現在很奇怪，照顧全部，除了公教人員，對公教人員手不軟啦！","quality":0.816},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:01.975000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:02.475000+08:00","text":"你可以想一想！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:03.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:09.580000+08:00","text":"原來我們主張普發現金一萬的時候，行政院多硬啊！不發！","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:09.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:11.802000+08:00","text":"執政黨團不發！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:11.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:12.943000+08:00","text":"到後來統統要了。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:14.659000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:28.953000+08:00","text":"以現在來講，你清楚看得到，我剛才在提案說明時就講了，到現在為止，如果加上明年度的話，我們給勞保的撥補有5,000億左右。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:31.455000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:44.186000+08:00","text":"請問教育部次長，公立學校的教職員到今年底會砍多少下來？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:44.186000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:48.729000+08:00","text":"委員是講替代率的比例還是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:48.729000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:53.071000+08:00","text":"不是，是全部金額，節省多少？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:54.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:55.213000+08:00","text":"你都不知道啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:55.353000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:36:58.075000+08:00","text":"你都不知道還在這裡，要講啊！","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:36:58.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:00.116000+08:00","text":"省多少錢嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:01.377000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:01.677000+08:00","text":"省多少？13……","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:06.487000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:06.487000+08:00","text":"不止13啦！","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:08.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:10.390000+08:00","text":"3,000億左右啦！多少？","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:10.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:12.532000+08:00","text":"從107年開始到現在。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:12.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:13.712000+08:00","text":"從107年到現在已經回補1321。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:13.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:14.053000+08:00","text":"不是有3,000億嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:21.116000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:23.278000+08:00","text":"教育人員的部分是1321。","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:24.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:29.923000+08:00","text":"1321是教育人員，只有砍了1321，對不對？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:30.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:33.045000+08:00","text":"難道你不站在教育人員的角度上？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:34.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:35.667000+08:00","text":"這個未來可不可以不要砍了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:36.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:38.830000+08:00","text":"就這麼簡單一個訴求而已，多少委員提案就這樣子，stop here！","quality":0.655},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:40.291000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:49.825000+08:00","text":"七年了，它原來是十年，我們就少三年，物價上升，其他的所得、其他的都一直漲，這是一個訴求。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:50.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:37:55.349000+08:00","text":"照理講，教育部應該替教育人員講話，對不對？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:37:55.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:38:02.553000+08:00","text":"結果我們看到其他部會都是替他們部會相關人員講話，獨獨教育部不敢講，也不知道為什麼，你要不要講一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:38:06.713000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:38:13.475000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為維持現行規定，應該相對現職跟退休人員是一個比較永續的作法。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:38:13.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:38:15.296000+08:00","text":"什麼叫永續？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:38:15.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:38:23.358000+08:00","text":"你們說如果這樣子的話，會提早破產3到4年，請問那是民國幾年的事情？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:38:24.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:38:27.739000+08:00","text":"民國幾年會破產？129年。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:38:27.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:38:28.020000+08:00","text":"129，現在多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:38:29.340000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:38:58.376000+08:00","text":"114年，那是15年以後的事情，很多人不知道15年後還在不在，你要考慮15年以後的事情，我覺得這個東西太抽象、太空泛，而且非常不實際，現在來講，你看潛艦幾百億，潛艦都快要變成爛尾艦了，錢一樣砸、這樣子花，七年來，如果你是113多，一年差不多200億左右，對不對？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:38:59.096000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:39:00.697000+08:00","text":"200億可不可以就不要再砍了？","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:39:00.877000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:39:09.222000+08:00","text":"就這樣而已，你用其他的什麼理由說，這個是永續還是什麼之類的，我覺得沒有說服力，物價一直漲。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:39:11.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:39:25.337000+08:00","text":"你們的報告裡面也寫了，現在平均所得是5.8，高於主計總處公布的經常性薪資4.6，但那是去年，今年不只，今年五萬多了！","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:39:26.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:39:27.219000+08:00","text":"今年已經五萬多了！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:39:28.580000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:39:29.861000+08:00","text":"已經五萬多，你要不要調整？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:39:34.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:39:42.563000+08:00","text":"今年已經五萬多了，不是四萬多，當然它的中位數沒有這麼高，但是平均數已經是五萬多了，接近你這個。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:39:43.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:39:56.681000+08:00","text":"我們的訴求其實就是苦民所苦，陳建仁那時候是年金改革的總負責人、總舵手，他講的，軍公教勞一起改。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:39:57.241000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:40:05.387000+08:00","text":"結果勞到現在為止完全沒有改，勞就是一直補、一直補，補到明年的預算加起來5,000億，教呢？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:40:06.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:40:08.790000+08:00","text":"你要繼續砍，這不通啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:40:09.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:40:10.011000+08:00","text":"整個不通啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:40:11.512000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:40:23.596000+08:00","text":"賴清德總統都說，臺灣現在經濟成長有多好又多好，GDP成長多少又多少，要全民共享，為什麼退休人員就沒辦法照顧一下？","quality":0.863},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:40:24.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:40:35.007000+08:00","text":"第二個問題，我們現在講的，以前是四年調整一次，可不可以改成兩年調整一次，你們的看法怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:40:36.153000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:40:43.660000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，因為目前的規定是只要CPI正負百分之五……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:40:43.660000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:40:45.141000+08:00","text":"現在是百分之五，我們要改成百分之三啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:40:45.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:40:57.791000+08:00","text":"但是如果要調整的話，可能也要兼顧到跟現值的差異跟衡平，誠如委員講的，目前平均已經是5.8，百分之八十五是在5萬塊以上……","quality":0.725},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:41:00.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:41:17.028000+08:00","text":"我的問題是，平均薪資已經五萬多了，換句話說，現在「教」的人員已經是很辛苦了，已經到樓地板了，不要再砍了啦！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:41:17.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:41:24.973000+08:00","text":"就這樣子一個很簡單的訴求，然後未來要隨著軍公教調整，可以調整吧？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:41:25.413000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:41:26.153000+08:00","text":"你們同意來調整嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:41:26.974000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:41:33.157000+08:00","text":"我們現在是依照CPI正負百分之五跟每四年調整一次，事實上從年改到現在已經調過兩次、6%了。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:41:33.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:41:33.197000+08:00","text":"幾年調6%？從107年。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:41:39.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:41:41.874000+08:00","text":"對，七年調6%，就是一年1%嘛！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:41:42.494000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:41:46.700000+08:00","text":"所以我才說，那乾脆兩年3%，就是這個意思啦！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:41:48.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:42:04.115000+08:00","text":"因為我的時間到，時間很短，所以我就不多講了，就是告訴各位、告訴大家，政府對勞保是這樣，對軍公，特別是公教，是另外一個嘴臉，完全政治考量，可怕的地方在這裡。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:42:04.936000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:42:09.778000+08:00","text":"你今天在這裡，你也不敢回答，你都是照本宣科，反正就這個樣子。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"賴委員士葆","start":"2025-10-20T12:42:10.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:42:24.997000+08:00","text":"反正立法院來改，因為民眾黨跟我們合起來，民眾黨只是有一個堅持，我聽到的是，不是回到原來的，而是stop here，不要繼續砍，我覺得你們應該好好去認真思考這個問題，謝謝。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"朱次長俊彰","start":"2025-10-20T12:42:25.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-20T12:42:26.339000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員指導。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:42:26.839000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:42:43.410429+08:00","text":"謝謝賴委員的提醒，也請銓敘部還有教育部，你們作為公務人員跟教育人員的主管機關，更應該要保障公教人員的權益，還有退休人員的權益。","quality":0.069},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:42:43.710429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:42:55.424714+08:00","text":"然後裡面有一些事實其實沒有講得很清楚，我們也希望你們之後能夠再把相關的細節講得更清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:42:55.724714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:01.439000+08:00","text":"接下來張智倫委員、張智倫委員、張智倫委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:01.739000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:06.596143+08:00","text":"鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:06.896143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:11.753286+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:12.053286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:16.910429+08:00","text":"蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:17.210429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:22.067571+08:00","text":"張啓楷委員、張啓楷委員、張啓楷委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:22.367571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:27.224714+08:00","text":"牛煦庭委員、牛煦庭委員、牛煦庭委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:27.524714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:32.381857+08:00","text":"徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:32.681857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:37.539000+08:00","text":"沈發惠委員、沈發惠委員、沈發惠委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:37.839000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:42.696143+08:00","text":"許宇甄委員、許宇甄委員、許宇甄委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:42.996143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:47.853286+08:00","text":"吳宗憲委員、吳宗憲委員、吳宗憲委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:48.153286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:53.010429+08:00","text":"傅崐萁委員、傅崐萁委員、傅崐萁委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:53.310429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:43:58.167571+08:00","text":"葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-20T12:43:58.467571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-20T12:44:01.324714+08:00","text":"接下來有請羅智強委員。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":901,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（12時35分）謝謝主席。有請教育部的長官、銓敘部的長官，有兩位次長，還有人事行政總處的張副人事長，共三位長官。"],["主席：請兩位次長及副人事長。"],["朱次長俊彰：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：因為我時間很短，所以我只有一個問題，教育部的長官要不要跟我們講一下，現在已經砍七年了吧？Stop here！而且現在來講，我們一直講國民所得有多好又多好，這個政府現在很奇怪，照顧全部，除了公教人員，對公教人員手不軟啦！你可以想一想！原來我們主張普發現金一萬的時候，行政院多硬啊！不發！執政黨團不發！到後來統統要了。以現在來講，你清楚看得到，我剛才在提案說明時就講了，到現在為止，如果加上明年度的話，我們給勞保的撥補有5,000億左右。請問教育部次長，公立學校的教職員到今年底會砍多少下來？"],["朱次長俊彰：委員是講替代率的比例還是……"],["賴委員士葆：不是，是全部金額，節省多少？你都不知道啊！你都不知道還在這裡，要講啊！省多少錢嘛？省多少？"],["朱次長俊彰：13……"],["賴委員士葆：不止13啦！3,000億左右啦！多少？從107年開始到現在。"],["朱次長俊彰：從107年到現在已經回補1321。"],["賴委員士葆：不是有3,000億嗎？"],["朱次長俊彰：教育人員的部分是1321。"],["賴委員士葆：1321是教育人員，只有砍了1321，對不對？難道你不站在教育人員的角度上？這個未來可不可以不要砍了？就這麼簡單一個訴求而已，多少委員提案就這樣子，stop here！七年了，它原來是十年，我們就少三年，物價上升，其他的所得、其他的都一直漲，這是一個訴求。照理講，教育部應該替教育人員講話，對不對？結果我們看到其他部會都是替他們部會相關人員講話，獨獨教育部不敢講，也不知道為什麼，你要不要講一下？"],["朱次長俊彰：跟委員報告，因為維持現行規定，應該相對現職跟退休人員是一個比較永續的作法。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼叫永續？你們說如果這樣子的話，會提早破產3到4年，請問那是民國幾年的事情？民國幾年會破產？"],["朱次長俊彰：129年。"],["賴委員士葆：129，現在多少？114年，那是15年以後的事情，很多人不知道15年後還在不在，你要考慮15年以後的事情，我覺得這個東西太抽象、太空泛，而且非常不實際，現在來講，你看潛艦幾百億，潛艦都快要變成爛尾艦了，錢一樣砸、這樣子花，七年來，如果你是113多，一年差不多200億左右，對不對？200億可不可以就不要再砍了？就這樣而已，你用其他的什麼理由說，這個是永續還是什麼之類的，我覺得沒有說服力，物價一直漲。你們的報告裡面也寫了，現在平均所得是5.8，高於主計總處公布的經常性薪資4.6，但那是去年，今年不只，今年五萬多了！今年已經五萬多了！已經五萬多，你要不要調整？今年已經五萬多了，不是四萬多，當然它的中位數沒有這麼高，但是平均數已經是五萬多了，接近你這個。","我們的訴求其實就是苦民所苦，陳建仁那時候是年金改革的總負責人、總舵手，他講的，軍公教勞一起改。結果勞到現在為止完全沒有改，勞就是一直補、一直補，補到明年的預算加起來5,000億，教呢？你要繼續砍，這不通啊！整個不通啊！賴清德總統都說，臺灣現在經濟成長有多好又多好，GDP成長多少又多少，要全民共享，為什麼退休人員就沒辦法照顧一下？","第二個問題，我們現在講的，以前是四年調整一次，可不可以改成兩年調整一次，你們的看法怎麼樣？"],["朱次長俊彰：跟委員報告，因為目前的規定是只要CPI正負百分之五……"],["賴委員士葆：現在是百分之五，我們要改成百分之三啦！"],["朱次長俊彰：但是如果要調整的話，可能也要兼顧到跟現值的差異跟衡平，誠如委員講的，目前平均已經是5.8，百分之八十五是在5萬塊以上……"],["賴委員士葆：我的問題是，平均薪資已經五萬多了，換句話說，現在「教」的人員已經是很辛苦了，已經到樓地板了，不要再砍了啦！就這樣子一個很簡單的訴求，然後未來要隨著軍公教調整，可以調整吧？你們同意來調整嗎？"],["朱次長俊彰：我們現在是依照CPI正負百分之五跟每四年調整一次，事實上從年改到現在已經調過兩次、6%了。"],["賴委員士葆：幾年調6%？"],["朱次長俊彰：從107年。"],["賴委員士葆：對，七年調6%，就是一年1%嘛！所以我才說，那乾脆兩年3%，就是這個意思啦！","因為我的時間到，時間很短，所以我就不多講了，就是告訴各位、告訴大家，政府對勞保是這樣，對軍公，特別是公教，是另外一個嘴臉，完全政治考量，可怕的地方在這裡。你今天在這裡，你也不敢回答，你都是照本宣科，反正就這個樣子。反正立法院來改，因為民眾黨跟我們合起來，民眾黨只是有一個堅持，我聽到的是，不是回到原來的，而是stop here，不要繼續砍，我覺得你們應該好好去認真思考這個問題，謝謝。"],["朱次長俊彰：謝謝委員指導。"],["主席：謝謝賴委員的提醒，也請銓敘部還有教育部，你們作為公務人員跟教育人員的主管機關，更應該要保障公教人員的權益，還有退休人員的權益。然後裡面有一些事實其實沒有講得很清楚，我們也希望你們之後能夠再把相關的細節講得更清楚。","接下來張智倫委員、張智倫委員、張智倫委員不在。","鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員不在。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","張啓楷委員、張啓楷委員、張啓楷委員不在。","牛煦庭委員、牛煦庭委員、牛煦庭委員不在。","徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員、徐欣瑩委員不在。","沈發惠委員、沈發惠委員、沈發惠委員不在。","許宇甄委員、許宇甄委員、許宇甄委員不在。","吳宗憲委員、吳宗憲委員、吳宗憲委員不在。","傅崐萁委員、傅崐萁委員、傅崐萁委員不在。","葉元之委員、葉元之委員、葉元之委員不在。","接下來有請羅智強委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":128,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-4-36,22-1","speakers":["翁曉玲","賴士葆","張智倫","許宇甄","黃健豪","林倩綺","黃國昌","王義川","柯志恩","陳培瑜","萬美玲","劉書彬","葛如鈞","莊瑞雄","林宜瑾","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","吳思瑤","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","范雲","黃建賓","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","吳沛憶","葉元之","陳秀寳","沈發惠","謝龍介","徐巧芯","牛煦庭","吳宗憲","傅崐萁"],"page_start":53,"meetingDate":["2025-10-20"],"gazette_id":"1148601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制、教育及文化委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"併案審查(一)委員賴士葆等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條文修正草\n案」案；( 二) 國民黨黨團擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條條文修正草案」\n案；(三)委員賴士葆等29人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及第三十八條條\n文修正草案」案；(四)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十七條條\n文修正草案」案；(五)委員許宇甄等21人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十七條及\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(六)委員黃健豪等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n第六十七條條文修正草案」案；(七)委員張智倫等19人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例\n部分條文修正草案」案；(八)委員葉元之等20人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(九)委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第三十\n七條條文修正草案」案；(十)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「公立學校教職員退休資遣撫卹條例第六十\n七條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1148601_00002"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}