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左右台灣人均的GDP是多少3萬8千美元"},{"start":56.562,"end":60.223,"text":"如果用總數來算的話今年預估是26兆多 明年預估28兆多人均的話大概是3萬5左右 明年預估是超過4萬"},{"start":78.369,"end":104.768,"text":"來來來 主計這邊三萬四 人均是三萬四比較大聲的沒關係人均三萬四 明年差不多三萬八明年三萬八三萬八是一個大家聽起來就比較振奮的數字雖然多數人的無感那我們現在就看著怎麼樣在你的施政上可以匆匆隆隆下一句"},{"start":106.004,"end":129.35,"text":"游刃有餘你不要捉襟見肘所以要把餅做大在30年前台灣是四小龍之首我們人均GDP那時候贏過新加坡就新加坡現在的成長人均GDP到9萬5千美元"},{"start":131.107,"end":147.429,"text":"我們就一直在思考應該怎麼做把餅做大把台灣做強讓我們在國際更有競爭的一個優勢所以 卵次長"},{"start":148.905,"end":169.054,"text":"先請教你一下因為今天大概討論很多了就是一般型補助 計畫型補助當然在我們地方的立場是越多越好可是我們新北減少了很多等一下麻煩請主計長這邊再來說明一下首先就是請阮次長把餅做大這個很重要你看我們累積大概"},{"start":177.287,"end":200.119,"text":"六七年來稅收大概超過一兆八千億這個錢到底跑去哪裡我跟委員報告基本上它就是第一個它就是用來還債這是第一個因為我們沒有還多少我們還債你還債 我們國債中也是差不多它一直在升高"},{"start":201.484,"end":225.537,"text":"現在國債中的情況是多少另外我也跟委員報告其實大家可能看到的那些所謂時增數超過預算數都是總預算如果我們加計特別預算的話以過去從101年到去年為止113年為止這13年當中只有4年是有剩餘的其他都是赤字"},{"start":228.118,"end":247.495,"text":"所以我是講說不能只看總預算要看包括總預算跟特別預算統籌來看是 所以你有沒有發現特別預算變成是一個巧門也不會 因為所有的預算都要經過立法院這邊通過這十年來你有沒有算過特別預算加一加總額多少"},{"start":248.437,"end":277.15,"text":"特別預算我這邊手上因為一直在增加最近的數字可能我請同仁再會合我是不是再提供給這個數字你要多清楚一點就是說我們感覺稅收都超增啊結果錢一兆八千億到底跑去哪裡大家覺得那沒有的話你要把這個實質的好處讓人民有感嘛或者是軍公家要調心嘛結果好像"},{"start":278.177,"end":302.445,"text":"也沒有那種快樂指數上升的感覺沒有啊所以我們在想說應該要好好來思考一下什麼樣的一個方法可以像新加坡一樣讓我們人均GDP可以急起直追至少有機會到新加坡了你不要說一樣至少要打八折吧"},{"start":302.912,"end":324.052,"text":"我跟委員報告,以我對產業的了解,我們跟新加坡的產業結構是非常不一樣的。我們的產業結構比較類似像韓國,或甚至跟日本比較類似。所以新加坡畢竟是一個城市國家,它的主要的收入來源最主要是靠投資、靠金融。"},{"start":324.693,"end":354.353,"text":"那我們是靠一般的這個製造業所以像我們製造業我們包括我們ICT產業就占我們出口就占百分之七成五全部都是靠IC產業所以很重要一部分電池產業所以我的意思是說最近這幾年為什麼我們能夠超越韓國就是因為我們在這些方面比韓國還要強還要強那表示這個警訊已經出現了我們現在全部都靠護國神山"},{"start":355.253,"end":378.305,"text":"現在又有漁工要移山把這座山移到美國去那我們剩下什麼山我們只剩阿里山我覺得我想不管是我們院的長官就是卓院長也一再強調還有很多的相關的卓院長是不是辭了好幾次要請辭是不是你有沒有聽過哪位卓院長"},{"start":379.454,"end":386.553,"text":"我不曉得 這個是長官的事我們不會怎麼會知道你當次長不是要請辭三次 四次都被拒絕啊"},{"start":389.352,"end":412.639,"text":"這個我不太清楚你再問問看但是我是覺得有消息跟我講一下我們的產業就是說剛才講說戶口神山戶口神山到其他國家去投資到底是不是會不會就是說影響到台灣的經濟發展其實到目前的所有的研究報告都認為是擴大我們對這個產業的影響力而不是掏空我們國內的經濟"},{"start":418.181,"end":438.356,"text":"所以市長的說法是有點正面因為最主要是核心留在台灣好 金娘你這樣說台灣的股市有沒有機會破三萬點我不是股市分析師但是最近股市真的是非常的強真的很強"},{"start":438.996,"end":452.025,"text":"那最主要也是因為我們的就是AI的產業高速運算產業這一部分這個是可以講說是成長非常的快市長 你現在那個國安基金要不要擴大它的規模"},{"start":454.287,"end":480.422,"text":"如果委員支持的話我就樂觀其成因為為什麼現在總共五千億嗎現在五千億但是實際上可以用的只有兩千億因為另外三千億是要跟其他基金借但是其他基金其實已經沒有錢因為錢都投進去了所以我們能夠只有能夠用的大概就兩千億因為以前最多的話大概是一萬多點在談國安基金的時候是五千億現在我們整個台灣的股市的市值是多少"},{"start":480.922,"end":493.466,"text":"現在都超過40兆以上了40兆以上了嘛40兆那40兆你要40的調升調升的話有沒有可能5000億往上調調到1兆左右如果可以的話我絕對都關起程我覺得1兆也還勉強啦"},{"start":497.427,"end":520.056,"text":"也沒有多多少啦我所謂一兆是說扣除那個就是扣除那些從基金借的假定是說我們可以從行戶那邊借到7000億的話我是覺得對股市的穩定民心的穩定還有投資的信心一定有很大的幫助所以你現在算起來就是加起來你可以運作的希望可以達到超過一兆以上"},{"start":520.977,"end":539.794,"text":"差不多啦 差不多那個金額如果可以的話如果委員支持的話我就覺得這個是一個很好的方向支持我要再研究一下看你會不會匆匆容容好那最重要的是你要把一些好的一些說則把它提出來修法"},{"start":540.695,"end":562.26,"text":"你起碼跟那個新加坡一樣嘛為什麼人家你說是城市國家會發展的很好那好的地方在哪裡你可以通盤檢討一下吧是好不好那我也希望說趕快啦把一些外在的環境排除以後希望股市可以上看多少"},{"start":565.972,"end":592.792,"text":"这个我没办法说这个数字是三万三万是OK的意思OK那有很多的因素我帮次长讲三万点三万点吧因为一万我也请你吃过鸡排喝过珍奶两万也吃过了等着这个三万我会加倍奉还可是请你要注意一下因为"},{"start":593.912,"end":610.614,"text":"現在台灣的這個結構有錢的賺了很多AI周邊賺很多傳統產業苦哈哈傳統產業的部分大概平均三分之二不漲反跌跌破20年平均線"},{"start":611.835,"end":638.42,"text":"所以本席也希望竹記總書這邊也注意這個問題就對於弱勢關懷比如說新北市需要照顧不管是你一般補助或計畫型的補助你要增加他的關愛的眼神金額要多一點因為必須我們400多萬人人數最多人均來講我們是最辛苦的請多多照顧"},{"start":639.48,"end":640.603,"text":"新北市 好不好好 謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:00.646000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:02.147000+08:00","text":"主席、各位委員、出列席官員大家好。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:02.387000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:05.888000+08:00","text":"主席，請財政部阮次長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:05.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:06.148000+08:00","text":"請阮次長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:06.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:08.890000+08:00","text":"主計總處陳主計長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:09.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:13.892000+08:00","text":"請陳主計長。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:14.072000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:18.834000+08:00","text":"兩位都是很重要的財經官員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:18.834000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:18.834000+08:00","text":"委員好。謝謝。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:19.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:27.678000+08:00","text":"我們看到整個全世界的變化，請問一下現在新加坡的人均GDP是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:34.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:36.130000+08:00","text":"9萬5,000美元左右啦！","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:37.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:39.753000+08:00","text":"臺灣人均的GDP是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:46.359000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:47.060000+08:00","text":"3萬多，3萬8,000美元。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:48.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:50.523000+08:00","text":"如果用總數來算，今年的話預估是26兆多，明年預估到28兆多。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:50.523000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:51.523000+08:00","text":"26、28兆，所以人均的GDP大概多少？","quality":0},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:50.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:51.323000+08:00","text":"人均的話大概是3萬……","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:51.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:51.383000+08:00","text":"3萬5左右？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:51.563000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:52.223000+08:00","text":"明年的話就會超過，預估是超過4萬。4萬？","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:10.369000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:10.549000+08:00","text":"主計這邊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:11.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:13.111000+08:00","text":"3萬4，人均是3萬4啦！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:14.272000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:15.573000+08:00","text":"大聲一點沒關係。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:15.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:17.814000+08:00","text":"人均3萬4，明年差不多3萬8。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:19.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:26.420000+08:00","text":"3萬8是一個大家聽起來就比較振奮的數字，雖然多數人仍無感。","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:27.381000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:40.745000+08:00","text":"那我們現在就看怎麼樣在你的施政上可以從從容容，下一句游刃有餘。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:40.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:42.925000+08:00","text":"你不要捉襟見肘嘛！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:42.925000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:01.330000+08:00","text":"所以要把餅做大，在30年前臺灣是四小龍之首，我們人均GDP那時候贏過新加坡，結果新加坡現在的成長，人均GDP到9萬5,000美元。","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:03.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:16.646000+08:00","text":"我們就一直在思考應該怎麼做，把餅做大，把臺灣做強，讓我們在國際更有競爭的優勢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:19.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:26.748000+08:00","text":"阮次長，先請教你一下，因為今天大家大概討論很多，就是一般型補助、計畫型補助。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:27.928000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:37.772000+08:00","text":"當然在我們地方的立場是越多越好，可是我們新北現在減少了很多，等一下麻煩請主計長這邊再來說明一下。","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:38.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:39.593000+08:00","text":"首先，阮次長，把餅做大這個很重要啊！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:39.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:57.571000+08:00","text":"你看我們累積大概6、7年來，稅收大概超過1兆8,000億元，這個錢到底跑去哪裡？","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:57.731000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:03.514000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，基本上第一個是用來還債。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:04.575000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:05.375000+08:00","text":"我們沒有還多少啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:06.136000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:10.238000+08:00","text":"我們的國債鐘也是差不多啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:11.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:14.665000+08:00","text":"還一直在升高，現在國債鐘的情況是多少？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:16.206000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:46.103000+08:00","text":"其實大家所看到的實徵數超過預算數都是總預算，如果我們加計特別預算的話，從101年到去年113年為止，這13年當中只有4年有賸餘，其他都是赤字，所以不能只看總預算，要看包括總預算和特別預算，統籌來看。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:47.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:52.128000+08:00","text":"所以你有沒有發現特別預算變成是一個巧門？","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:52.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:56.372000+08:00","text":"也不會，因為所有的預算都要經過立法院通過。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:56.612000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:59.475000+08:00","text":"你有沒有算過這10年來特別預算加一加總額多少？","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:02.218000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:08.201000+08:00","text":"因為一直在增加，最近的數字會後再請同仁提供給委員參考。","quality":0.72},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:08.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:17.425000+08:00","text":"這個數字要說清楚一點，就是說我們感覺稅收都超徵，結果1兆8,000億元的錢到底跑去哪裡？","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:22.847000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:35.299000+08:00","text":"實質的好處你要讓人民有感，或者軍公教要調薪，結果好像也沒有那種快樂指數上升的感覺，沒有啊！","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:36.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:54.425000+08:00","text":"所以我們想說要好好來思考一下什麼樣的方法，可以像新加坡一樣，讓我們人均GDP可以急起直追，不要說一樣，至少是新加坡打八折吧！","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:56.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:26.640000+08:00","text":"以我對產業的了解，我們跟新加坡的產業結構非常不一樣，我們的產業結構比較類似韓國，甚至跟日本比較類似，新加坡畢竟是個城市國家，它的主要收入來源是靠投資、金融，我們是靠一般的製造業，像我們的製造業，包括ICT產業就占我們出口的七成五……","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:27.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:31.223000+08:00","text":"全部都是靠IC產業、電子產業。","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:31.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:36.366000+08:00","text":"所以我的意思是說這幾年為什麼我們能夠超越韓國？","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:36.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:39.929000+08:00","text":"就是因為我們在這方面比韓國還要強。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:40.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:53.396000+08:00","text":"表示這個警訊已經出現了，我們現在全部都靠護國神山，現在又有愚公要移山，把這座山移到美國去，那我們剩下什麼山？","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:53.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:54.977000+08:00","text":"我們只剩阿里山啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:57.418000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:03.261000+08:00","text":"不管是我們院的長官，卓院長也一再強調，還有很多相關機關的主管機關……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:03.321000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:04.742000+08:00","text":"卓院長是不是辭了好幾次？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:05.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:05.943000+08:00","text":"要請辭是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:08.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:09.424000+08:00","text":"你有沒有聽過？","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:09.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:09.885000+08:00","text":"哪一位？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:10.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:10.305000+08:00","text":"卓院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:11.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:13.881000+08:00","text":"我不曉得，這是長官的事，我們不會知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:14.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:14.482000+08:00","text":"當次長不知道！","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:15.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:18.533000+08:00","text":"聽說要請辭三次、四次都被拒絕。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:21.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:21.932000+08:00","text":"這個我不太清楚。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:22.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:25.793000+08:00","text":"你再問問看，有消息跟我講一下。","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:26.233000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:44.639000+08:00","text":"我們的產業，剛才講的護國神山到其他國家投資，到底會不會影響到臺灣的經濟發展，其實到目前所有的研究報告都認為是擴大我們對這個產業的影響力，而不是掏空我們國內的經濟。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:51.582000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:53.723000+08:00","text":"次長的說法有點正面。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:54.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:57.986000+08:00","text":"最主要是核心留在臺灣。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:58.887000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:03.811000+08:00","text":"既然你這樣說，臺灣的股市有沒有機會破3萬點？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:03.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:20.462000+08:00","text":"我不是股市分析師，但是最近股市真的非常強，最主要也是因為我們的AI產業、高速運算產業這部分成長非常快。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:22.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:24.005000+08:00","text":"國安基金要不要擴大規模？","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:26.287000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:28.689000+08:00","text":"如果委員支持的話，我樂觀其成。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:29.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:31.310000+08:00","text":"現在總共5,000億元嘛。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:31.310000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:43.217000+08:00","text":"現在5,000億元，但實際上可以用的只有2,000億元，另外3,000億元是要跟其他基金借，但其他基金其實已經沒有錢，因為都投進去了，所以能用的大概只有2,000億元。","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:43.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:52.402000+08:00","text":"因為以前最多大概是一萬多點，國安基金是5,000億元，現在整個臺灣股市的市值是多少？","quality":0.943},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:53.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:54.262000+08:00","text":"超過40兆以上了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:57.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:02.645000+08:00","text":"你要適時的調升，有沒有可能5,000億元往上調，調到1兆元左右？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:03.505000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:04.766000+08:00","text":"如果可以的話，我都樂觀其成。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:05.166000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:10.087000+08:00","text":"1兆元也還勉強，也沒有多多少。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:10.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:27.254000+08:00","text":"我所謂的1兆元是扣除從基金借的，假定我們可以從行庫借到7,000億元的話，我覺得對股市的穩定、民心的穩定和投資人的信心，一定有很大的幫助。","quality":0.881},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:27.374000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:32.036000+08:00","text":"所以你算起來、加起來可運作的希望可以超過1兆元以上？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:33.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:34.238000+08:00","text":"差不多那個金額。","quality":1},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:34.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:38.081000+08:00","text":"對，如果可以的話，如果委員支持的話，我覺得這是一個很好的方向。","quality":0.963},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:38.702000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:43.927000+08:00","text":"支不支持我還要研究一下，看你們會不會從從容容。好。","quality":0.727},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:45.268000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:03.418000+08:00","text":"最重要的是你要把一些好的稅則提出來修法，起碼跟新加坡一樣，你說人家是城市國家會發展得很好，好的地方在哪裡，你可以通盤檢討一下吧！是。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:04.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:04.878000+08:00","text":"好不好？好。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:05.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:14.240000+08:00","text":"我也希望趕快把一些外在的環境排除以後，希望股市可以上看……你看我的手比的是多少？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"阮次長清華","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:14.240000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:20.013000+08:00","text":"這個我沒辦法說。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:20.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:24.917000+08:00","text":"這個數字是3萬，3萬是OK的意思。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:24.917000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:27.879000+08:00","text":"3萬啦，我幫次長講3萬點。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員明才","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:27.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:32.603000+08:00","text":"因為1萬點我也請你吃過雞排、喝過珍奶，2萬點也吃過了，等著3萬點，我會加倍奉還，可是請你要注意一下，因為現在臺灣的結構，有錢的賺很多，AI周邊賺很多，傳統產業苦哈哈，傳統產業的部分大概平均三分之二不漲反跌，跌破20年平均線，所以本席希望主計總處這邊也注意這個問題，對於弱勢關懷，例如新北市需要照顧，不管是一般補助或計畫型的補助，你要增加對他們關愛的眼神，金額要多一點，畢竟我們四百多萬人，人數最多，人均來講我們是最辛苦的，請多多照顧新北市，好不好？是。謝謝。","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:33.103000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:35.103000+08:00","text":"謝謝羅明才委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:35.403000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:38.545857+08:00","text":"接下來請王世堅委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":1034,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（11時40分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員大家好。主席，請財政部阮次長。"],["主席：請阮次長。"],["羅委員明才：主計總處陳主計長。"],["主席：請陳主計長。"],["羅委員明才：兩位都是很重要的財經官員。"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：謝謝。我們看到整個全世界的變化，請問一下現在新加坡的人均GDP是多少？9萬5,000美元左右啦！臺灣人均的GDP是多少？3萬多，3萬8,000美元。"],["阮次長清華：如果用總數來算，今年的話預估是26兆多，明年預估到28兆多。"],["羅委員明才：26、28兆，所以人均的GDP大概多少？"],["阮次長清華：人均的話大概是3萬……"],["羅委員明才：3萬5左右？"],["阮次長清華：明年的話就會超過，預估是超過4萬。"],["羅委員明才：4萬？主計這邊？"],["陳主計長淑姿：3萬4，人均是3萬4啦！"],["羅委員明才：大聲一點沒關係。"],["陳主計長淑姿：人均3萬4，明年差不多3萬8。"],["羅委員明才：3萬8是一個大家聽起來就比較振奮的數字，雖然多數人仍無感。那我們現在就看怎麼樣在你的施政上可以從從容容，下一句游刃有餘。你不要捉襟見肘嘛！所以要把餅做大，在30年前臺灣是四小龍之首，我們人均GDP那時候贏過新加坡，結果新加坡現在的成長，人均GDP到9萬5,000美元。我們就一直在思考應該怎麼做，把餅做大，把臺灣做強，讓我們在國際更有競爭的優勢。","阮次長，先請教你一下，因為今天大家大概討論很多，就是一般型補助、計畫型補助。當然在我們地方的立場是越多越好，可是我們新北現在減少了很多，等一下麻煩請主計長這邊再來說明一下。首先，阮次長，把餅做大這個很重要啊！你看我們累積大概6、7年來，稅收大概超過1兆8,000億元，這個錢到底跑去哪裡？"],["阮次長清華：跟委員報告，基本上第一個是用來還債。"],["羅委員明才：我們沒有還多少啊！我們的國債鐘也是差不多啊！還一直在升高，現在國債鐘的情況是多少？"],["阮次長清華：其實大家所看到的實徵數超過預算數都是總預算，如果我們加計特別預算的話，從101年到去年113年為止，這13年當中只有4年有賸餘，其他都是赤字，所以不能只看總預算，要看包括總預算和特別預算，統籌來看。"],["羅委員明才：所以你有沒有發現特別預算變成是一個巧門？"],["阮次長清華：也不會，因為所有的預算都要經過立法院通過。"],["羅委員明才：你有沒有算過這10年來特別預算加一加總額多少？"],["阮次長清華：因為一直在增加，最近的數字會後再請同仁提供給委員參考。"],["羅委員明才：這個數字要說清楚一點，就是說我們感覺稅收都超徵，結果1兆8,000億元的錢到底跑去哪裡？實質的好處你要讓人民有感，或者軍公教要調薪，結果好像也沒有那種快樂指數上升的感覺，沒有啊！所以我們想說要好好來思考一下什麼樣的方法，可以像新加坡一樣，讓我們人均GDP可以急起直追，不要說一樣，至少是新加坡打八折吧！"],["阮次長清華：以我對產業的了解，我們跟新加坡的產業結構非常不一樣，我們的產業結構比較類似韓國，甚至跟日本比較類似，新加坡畢竟是個城市國家，它的主要收入來源是靠投資、金融，我們是靠一般的製造業，像我們的製造業，包括ICT產業就占我們出口的七成五……"],["羅委員明才：全部都是靠IC產業、電子產業。"],["阮次長清華：所以我的意思是說這幾年為什麼我們能夠超越韓國？就是因為我們在這方面比韓國還要強。"],["羅委員明才：表示這個警訊已經出現了，我們現在全部都靠護國神山，現在又有愚公要移山，把這座山移到美國去，那我們剩下什麼山？我們只剩阿里山啊！"],["阮次長清華：不管是我們院的長官，卓院長也一再強調，還有很多相關機關的主管機關……"],["羅委員明才：卓院長是不是辭了好幾次？要請辭是不是？你有沒有聽過？"],["阮次長清華：哪一位？"],["羅委員明才：卓院長。"],["阮次長清華：我不曉得，這是長官的事，我們不會知道。"],["羅委員明才：當次長不知道！聽說要請辭三次、四次都被拒絕。"],["阮次長清華：這個我不太清楚。"],["羅委員明才：你再問問看，有消息跟我講一下。"],["阮次長清華：我們的產業，剛才講的護國神山到其他國家投資，到底會不會影響到臺灣的經濟發展，其實到目前所有的研究報告都認為是擴大我們對這個產業的影響力，而不是掏空我們國內的經濟。"],["羅委員明才：次長的說法有點正面。"],["阮次長清華：最主要是核心留在臺灣。"],["羅委員明才：既然你這樣說，臺灣的股市有沒有機會破3萬點？"],["阮次長清華：我不是股市分析師，但是最近股市真的非常強，最主要也是因為我們的AI產業、高速運算產業這部分成長非常快。"],["羅委員明才：國安基金要不要擴大規模？"],["阮次長清華：如果委員支持的話，我樂觀其成。"],["羅委員明才：現在總共5,000億元嘛。"],["阮次長清華：現在5,000億元，但實際上可以用的只有2,000億元，另外3,000億元是要跟其他基金借，但其他基金其實已經沒有錢，因為都投進去了，所以能用的大概只有2,000億元。"],["羅委員明才：因為以前最多大概是一萬多點，國安基金是5,000億元，現在整個臺灣股市的市值是多少？"],["阮次長清華：超過40兆以上了。"],["羅委員明才：你要適時的調升，有沒有可能5,000億元往上調，調到1兆元左右？"],["阮次長清華：如果可以的話，我都樂觀其成。"],["羅委員明才：1兆元也還勉強，也沒有多多少。"],["阮次長清華：我所謂的1兆元是扣除從基金借的，假定我們可以從行庫借到7,000億元的話，我覺得對股市的穩定、民心的穩定和投資人的信心，一定有很大的幫助。"],["羅委員明才：所以你算起來、加起來可運作的希望可以超過1兆元以上？差不多那個金額。"],["阮次長清華：對，如果可以的話，如果委員支持的話，我覺得這是一個很好的方向。"],["羅委員明才：支不支持我還要研究一下，看你們會不會從從容容。"],["阮次長清華：好。"],["羅委員明才：最重要的是你要把一些好的稅則提出來修法，起碼跟新加坡一樣，你說人家是城市國家會發展得很好，好的地方在哪裡，你可以通盤檢討一下吧！"],["阮次長清華：是。"],["羅委員明才：好不好？"],["阮次長清華：好。"],["羅委員明才：我也希望趕快把一些外在的環境排除以後，希望股市可以上看……你看我的手比的是多少？"],["阮次長清華：這個我沒辦法說。"],["羅委員明才：這個數字是3萬，3萬是OK的意思。"],["主席：3萬啦，我幫次長講3萬點。"],["羅委員明才：因為1萬點我也請你吃過雞排、喝過珍奶，2萬點也吃過了，等著3萬點，我會加倍奉還，可是請你要注意一下，因為現在臺灣的結構，有錢的賺很多，AI周邊賺很多，傳統產業苦哈哈，傳統產業的部分大概平均三分之二不漲反跌，跌破20年平均線，所以本席希望主計總處這邊也注意這個問題，對於弱勢關懷，例如新北市需要照顧，不管是一般補助或計畫型的補助，你要增加對他們關愛的眼神，金額要多一點，畢竟我們四百多萬人，人數最多，人均來講我們是最辛苦的，請多多照顧新北市，好不好？"],["陳主計長淑姿：是。"],["羅委員明才：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅明才委員。","接下來請王世堅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-20-3","speakers":["林思銘","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","李坤城","鍾佳濱","顏寬恒","黃珊珊","羅明才","王世堅","張啓楷","洪孟楷","陳玉珍","楊瓊瓔","高金素梅","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":333,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148701_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第3次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處、財政部就「中央對直轄市及縣（市）政府補助辦法修正後，一般性補助款\n審查與評比基準、財務計畫檢核基礎、撥款方式等規範及作業程序為何？修改財力級次計算公式\n之合理性及對各縣市補助款影響為何？計畫型補助款範圍與業務定義？對各縣市未來整體財政補\n助金額之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148701_00014"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}