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有請主委好 有請主委"},{"start":27.216,"end":48.029,"text":"各位好主委好很高興可以在這個會期又再看到你希望可以一起繼續的協作首先想先拜託主委一件事這個NVIDIA之前有來台灣設立這個所謂的創新研發中心那有這個所謂的超級電腦算力這個台北一號那不知道主委知不知道台北一號在哪裡"},{"start":49.246,"end":73.545,"text":"在高雄我想我們用這樣的一個機制去提供全台這樣的一個算力的協助我覺得非常感謝不過根據我們的了解我們看到經濟部在申請資格這裡有一個很奇怪的設計就是說它說NVIDIA的算力管理規定說申請單位在申請的時候需要一次完整的使用6週或12週"},{"start":75.746,"end":89.462,"text":"我們去研究了一下我們就發現其實有團隊跟我們反映說到最後申請下來多半都是以六週為主其實很少有人可以拿到12週為什麼 因為太多人想用了而且這六週呢又必須要連續的"},{"start":90.603,"end":108.438,"text":"沒有辦法說我要申請長一點的時間可是我只用譬如說十二分之一的算力其實有團隊在反映說很感謝有這樣的一個機制但是我們都知道我想主委一定很清楚其實科學研究六週等於差不多一個半月其實要一個半月就做出成果真的是相當困難"},{"start":109.239,"end":131.995,"text":"所以在這個train error的過程裡面,有沒有一個機會,我是希望能夠幫這個學術單位能夠跟您反映一下,有沒有一個更有彈性的使用的機制。那我們也了解了,其實NVIDIA根本沒有這個算力規定啦。能不能您作為AI的大家長跟經濟部,我知道這是經濟部處理的,可是可不可以協作來試一下,我們能不能有更彈性的使用方式。"},{"start":133.161,"end":150.311,"text":"因為這個是經濟部的業務我並不了解他們現在運作的狀況委員的這個意見我會跟經濟部來溝通一下是 因為您是政委同時也是我們的主委我相信很多的科研單位都是跟你們申請計畫"},{"start":151.252,"end":168.886,"text":"那計劃補助了以後,他們確實是在使用這個算力來做研究那希望主委可以關心一下,看能不能提供更好的一個彈性的方式否則其實有很多的單位跟我們反映到最後他們都只能使用AWS或是雲端的其他的算力費用也很高昂,但是整體來講我覺得有點可惜"},{"start":170.908,"end":182.219,"text":"那另外一方面是為什麼都到最後只能申請到六週也是因為有可能會有一個算力不足的這個狀況啦就是大家都在搶算力那我想請教一下有沒有台北二號的計畫"},{"start":184.403,"end":202.842,"text":"這個我沒有聽過耶那可不可以幫忙爭取一下我想NVIDIA在台灣遇到這樣的挑戰可是我們接下來能不能還是能夠跟它持續的深化合作我希望主委再投出一顆好球好不好有沒有機會演繹一下這個部分幫我們的學者爭取一下"},{"start":203.666,"end":222.081,"text":"我們其實現在是有鼓勵民間投資啦那民間投資像偉創之通也宣布林董事長也宣布宣布說他們也要建置這個資料中心那他們也願意提供一部分的算力來鼓勵包含學界的研發成果要商業化這部分他們是"},{"start":222.441,"end":241.549,"text":"好 很好 因為這次是NVIDIA提供25%的算力我想這樣的一個機制希望能夠擴大另外 整體來講算力可能還是有不夠的狀況接下來我們可以期待有沒有一個新的算力的中心可以讓這些研究機構或者產業能夠不要這樣子用搶的方式又搶不到 時間又很短"},{"start":242.109,"end":254.872,"text":"能不能给我们一个愿景我们接下来一个更大的一个算力中心或者算力的一个算力池是什么时间多大的算力有机会可以期待主委有没有一个大概的愿景可以让我们关注一下"},{"start":255.663,"end":279.075,"text":"我們預算有在逐年編列其實也跟委員報告過我們在台南會建置算力中心包含在南科台南園區那個是已經完工了正在裝置設備然後我們工建計畫明年從"},{"start":281.457,"end":298.698,"text":"從這個115年起開始設計就是沙倫的這個Data Center那這個我們也都會提供給學術界來那這個採購的部分預算都已經下去了嗎它是會採購這個NVIDIA或者其他這個新的算力這個算力的這個Petaflops有沒有一個預計啊"},{"start":300.425,"end":315.465,"text":"現在不算Pelaflops現在就是算力我們用這個耗電因為不是使用用瓦數來算是對的因為真正那個算力可以用它消耗的這個功率現在的GPU大概都差不多所以我們會採購"},{"start":317.107,"end":338.865,"text":"採購的這個設備現在沒有限定哪一家對不起 主委我請教一下對不起打斷你就是說如果你是用電力耗損度來看的話而不是用Peta Flops來算的話那我如果買一些比較舊型的這個顯卡或舊型的算力裝置它其實因為它可能是比較舊的奈米製程"},{"start":339.545,"end":357.135,"text":"它耗電功率比較大那反而從瓦數來看它好像比較厲害可是實際上它的算力可能比較低啊這個怎麼避免這樣的一個問題啊所以我們在比的時候這個是很難有一個公平的比法現在在比的時候當然都要談是現有的設備不是老的設備"},{"start":358.283,"end":384.497,"text":"那各國都是用Petaflops在算還是用瓦數在算?現在已經沒有,Petaflops是早期的Supercomputer所以現在都是用瓦數在算?你確定喔?現在是這樣,沒有錯那到時候我們就要看一下break down啦不然你到時候瓦數買了大家特別去買一些高功耗的結果算力比較弱的,那你這樣子平均起來你說我們耗電量超大,算力很強可是實際上算力不夠,這真的很怪喔應該沒有那麼笨會故意買那個高耗能的"},{"start":385.637,"end":403.423,"text":"我相信主委你不會那麼笨啦但是也有人可能刻意不小心不聰明的話這樣不太好啦所以我們我希望大家一起來關注這個部分好不好這不是玩笑啦因為這都是名子名高好不好那另外呢我想接下來也要看一下謝謝你們準備這份業務報告"},{"start":405.063,"end":427.353,"text":"但是我覺得有一點緊張機器人的部分很重要對不對我們剛剛提到了這個全球是百億千億的在投入機器人的部分在這次業務報告佔多少主委有沒有一個概念85頁你猜一下大概佔多少應該很重要對不對你猜一下佔多少"},{"start":428.879,"end":456.022,"text":"你應該看過這一份嘛 對不對重不重要 很重要嘛我們行政院這個智慧機器人方案頭百億嘛 對不對 千億下去嘛就頭頭差不多兩百億 其中每一半對啊 占多少嘛 占多少 85頁占多少85頁 你有沒有一個概念這一次業務報告啦 你應該看過嘛主委 時間有限 你翻到11頁好不好11頁 第11頁"},{"start":457.677,"end":481.344,"text":"我們的智慧機器人在這次的業務報告竟然只佔了10行啊你是說幾行啊10行啊照我們的比例看起來170分之1喔170分之1喔結果你們的年度的預算也不過就這些200億也不少耶那沒有關係 主委我理解不少啊"},{"start":481.624,"end":498.138,"text":"雖然不少啊但是你們的這個我覺得還不夠啦就是說規劃你仔細看一下你仔細看一下11頁你們的描述非常的空泛報告我們行政院那個方案也公告我理解我都放在手上了我都放在手上行政院方案我有拿到"},{"start":499.139,"end":515.684,"text":"那我想要講的就是因為機器人對台灣的產業整合非常有意義而且很重要為什麼在這個行政院方案的第八頁就寫了為什麼台灣要著重機器人很重要的原因是第一個半導體製造優勢行政院說的"},{"start":516.044,"end":532.965,"text":"第二個 知識通訊技術的優勢 行政院說的第三個 研發能量很強我們台灣的Machine Learning ML Computer Vision CV跟這個所謂的NLP 自然語言處理 都很強這三個整合起來就是機器人產業但是在這裡面 我們還是有點擔心這個"},{"start":535.848,"end":558.001,"text":"十行的描述喔有一點空泛又有一點小怎麼佈局怎麼定位任務是什麼主委現在有沒有一個很明確的說法在看啊你看人家已經這個打中國功夫的打中國功夫啊出這種恐怖人形機器人都出啦我是想要問一下主委有沒有一個明確的佈局啊不然我們看了很緊張啊"},{"start":560.254,"end":587.36,"text":"報告委員我們要做服務型機器人產業需求要應付社會各種各樣需求我們藉助台灣現在既有的供應鏈我們很多廠商都已經準備好了我們要發展系統發展應用服務這個是我們現在的重點我們不是要去打擂台踢來踢去這個不是現在我們的重點我們在健康照護在旅宿餐飲等等各種社會需求政治防救災"},{"start":588.88,"end":602.905,"text":"這一點主委我還是要提醒你一下我們可以不去跟人家打擂台別人可能會來跟我們打擂台啦所以我理解服務機器人是一個路線但是我還是要提醒主委智慧機器人裡面應該還是包含人形的"},{"start":603.385,"end":626.115,"text":"不是說你說我不跟你打 別人就不會來打你所以我想這一塊還是要往前衝啦不要說我們來不及了 我們比較晚了我們害怕 絕對不害怕人家打來一台我們要跟人家打好不好不要去限制所以這一點我是跟您未來還是持續的協作"},{"start":626.835,"end":654.622,"text":"接著還是要繼續請教啦就是我想這個我們剛剛提到就是說我們你的實行誌裡面有提到說要補助學界協助學界研發我們先代替學界來感謝但是呢我們其實也有看到啦其實教育部有啟動一個頂尖研究中心的計畫五家大學有六大研究中心一年要投三億每一個中心分起來大概一年五千萬啦"},{"start":655.622,"end":676.361,"text":"雖然這是教育部的計畫但是您是我們AI的大家長又是政務委員我想要請教也希望能夠來關注一下就是說國科會在這六大研究中心裡面有沒有額外的再去matching就是說它這邊教育部五千萬了那我知道有的幾個計畫是有做機器人的"},{"start":677.121,"end":694.151,"text":"有做robot learning的那我們可不可以集合起來有一個縱效因為五千萬要去研究這個真的老實說不多啦跟國際比起來國科會這裡可不可以這個研究中心我們國科會這裡也再補進去這樣產生一個縱效我想請教一下有沒有這樣的規劃"},{"start":695.202,"end":723.625,"text":"有啊 我們所有的這些大學教育部支持的這些研究中心他們同步也都會申請國科會的研究計畫所以這個是沒有問題的這個我知道您會這樣回答但是我想要講的是我們希望國科會能不能主動積極一點的去協助而不是坐在這裡等著他們來申請主委也理解啦申請研究計畫也很花時間要申請還不一定過對不對 沒錯嘛"},{"start":727.267,"end":740.474,"text":"我們歡迎他們來申請但是我們不能夠說主動給他錢沒有經過一個審查程序是不行的可以有審查程序但是能不能針對這幾個研究中心"},{"start":741.354,"end":767.245,"text":"可不可以有一個縱效的產生因為我清楚本來就可以讓他們申請但是一邊又要做教學一邊又要設立研發中心一邊又要再寫新的計畫來跟國會申請其實學者們的時間是有限的還要去寫計畫來申請台北灣的算力我是真的能不能請主委研議一下我們教育部國會都希望能夠減少"},{"start":768.425,"end":796.592,"text":"行政的成本我們優勢的人才才能夠跟國際競爭啊主委可不可以研議一下一個月內給一個研議的可能性好不好就怎麼樣產生縱效啦我們不是說要做一個怎麼樣的一個批評或什麼真的是在幫我們台灣的這個學界不然五千萬可以 我們可以跟教育部來討論一下協調一下讓這個縱效可以發揮得更好太好了"},{"start":797.172,"end":814.327,"text":"謝謝主委這個很高興在新的會期看到主委那我想我們這樣一個正向的一個協作的機制我們可以設立起來那剛剛您提的研議的結果可不可以一個月內提供給我們辦公室好不好好 謝謝委員謝謝主委 謝謝主席謝謝格魯遜委員質詢主委請回座"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:15.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:40:15.572000+08:00","text":"謝謝！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:15.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:40:16.012000+08:00","text":"有請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:16.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:40:16.753000+08:00","text":"有請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:16.753000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:40:24.257000+08:00","text":"葛委員好。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:24.257000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:40:24.477000+08:00","text":"主委好！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:25.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:40:29.140000+08:00","text":"很高興可以在這個會期再看到你，希望可以一起繼續協作。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:29.860000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:40:44.029000+08:00","text":"首先想拜託主委一件事，NVIDIA之前有來臺灣設立所謂的創新研發中心，還有超級電腦算力Taipei-1，請問主委知不知道Taipei-1在哪裡？","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:45.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:40:45.566000+08:00","text":"在高雄。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:40:47.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:09.525000+08:00","text":"對，對於用這樣的一個機制去提供全臺算力的協助，我覺得非常感謝，不過根據我們的瞭解，經濟部在申請資格這裡有一個很奇怪的設計，就是根據NVIDIA的算力管理規定，申請單位在申請的時候一次須完整使用6周或12周。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:11.746000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:21.397000+08:00","text":"而我們研究了一下發現，其實也有團隊向我們反映，最後申請下來的多半是以6周為主，很少有人可以拿到12周，為什麼？","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:21.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:22.759000+08:00","text":"因為太多人想用了。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:23.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:31.647000+08:00","text":"而且這6周又必須是連續的，沒有辦法申請長一點的時間，可是只用譬如說十二分之一的算力。","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:32.348000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:44.438000+08:00","text":"有團隊反映很感謝有這樣的機制，但是我們都知道、我想主委一定也很清楚，就科學研究而言，6周差不多等於一個半月，要在一個半月之內就做出成果真的相當困難。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:45.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:55.486000+08:00","text":"所以，在這個trial and error的過程裡有沒有機會……我是希望幫學術單位向您反映，有沒有更有彈性的使用機制？","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:56.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:41:58.989000+08:00","text":"我們也了解，其實NVIDIA根本沒有這個算力規定啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:41:59.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:01.790000+08:00","text":"您身為AI的大家長，能不能跟經濟部討論？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:02.031000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:07.975000+08:00","text":"我知道這是經濟部處理的，可是可不可以協作、試一下，能不能有更彈性的使用方式？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:09.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:19.527000+08:00","text":"因為這是經濟部的業務，我並不了解他們現在運作的狀況，但對於委員的意見，我會跟經濟部溝通一下。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:19.888000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:35.539000+08:00","text":"因為您是政委，同時也是主委，我相信很多科研單位都是向你們申請計畫，獲得計畫補助以後，他們也確實使用算力作研究，所以希望主委關心一下，看看能不能提供更好的彈性方式？","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:35.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:44.866000+08:00","text":"否則，其實有很多單位向我們反映，最後他們都只能使用AWS或其他雲端算力，費用也很高昂，整體來講，我覺得有點可惜。","quality":0.94},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:47.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:49.411000+08:00","text":"另一方面，為什麼最後都只能申請到6周？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:50.331000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:55.516000+08:00","text":"也是因為可能會有算力不足的狀況，導致大家都在搶算力。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:42:56.477000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:42:58.219000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，有沒有Taipei-2的計畫？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:00.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:00.763000+08:00","text":"我沒有聽過欸！","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:01.544000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:02.905000+08:00","text":"那可不可以幫忙爭取一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:03.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:14.337000+08:00","text":"我想NVIDIA在臺灣遇到這樣的挑戰，不知道我們接下來還能不能持續跟他深化合作，所以我希望主委再投出一顆好球，好不好？","quality":0.855},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:14.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:18.601000+08:00","text":"有沒有機會研議一下這個部分，來幫我們的學者爭取？","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:19.666000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:21.968000+08:00","text":"我們現在其實有鼓勵民間投資啦！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:24.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:37.620000+08:00","text":"像緯創資通林董事長也宣布他們要建置資料中心，且願意提供一部分算力，鼓勵學界研發成果商業化等部分。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:38.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:43.043000+08:00","text":"很好，這次是NVIDIA提供25%算力，我希望這樣的機制能夠擴大。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:43.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:43:57.529000+08:00","text":"另外，整體來講，算力可能還是有不夠的狀況，接下來我們有沒有新的算力中心可以期待，讓這些研究機構或產業不要這樣用搶的、又搶不到，時間還很短？","quality":0.839},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:43:58.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:04.140000+08:00","text":"能不能給我們一個願景，接下來會有更大的算力中心或算力池？","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:04.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:07.666000+08:00","text":"大概什麼時間、多大的算力讓大家有機會且可以期待？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:08.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:10.852000+08:00","text":"主委有沒有大概的願景可以讓我們關注一下？","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:11.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:32.794000+08:00","text":"我們預算正在逐年編列，其實也跟委員報告過，我們會在臺南建置算力中心，包含南科，也就是臺南園區的設施已經完工了，正在裝置設備。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:34.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:44.866000+08:00","text":"公建計畫方面，從明年（115年）起設計沙崙的Data Center，我們也都會提供給學術界來……","quality":0.868},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:45.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:47.529000+08:00","text":"在採購的部分，預算都已經下去了嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:47.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:53.837000+08:00","text":"是採購NVIDIA或其他新的算力petaFLOPS？","quality":0.76},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:54.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:44:54.678000+08:00","text":"有沒有預計啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:44:56.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:01.532000+08:00","text":"現在算力不算petaFLOPS，用的是耗電，因為不是只有……","quality":0.462},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:01.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:02.613000+08:00","text":"用瓦數來算就對了？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:03.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:14.889000+08:00","text":"是，因為真正的算力可以用消耗的功率計算，現在的GPU大概都差不多，所以我們採購的設備現在沒有限定哪一家……","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:16.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:44.230000+08:00","text":"主委，對不起打斷你，我請教一下，如果用電力耗損度來看、而不是用petaFLOPS來算的話，我要是買一些比較舊型的顯卡或舊型算力裝置，可能因為它屬於比較舊的奈米製程，耗電功率比較大，雖然從瓦數來看好像比較厲害，可是實際上算力可能反而比較低，要怎麼避免這樣的問題啊？","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:44.550000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:53.135000+08:00","text":"沒有錯，所以在比較的時候很難有公平的比法，在比的時候，當然要談現有設備，不是老的設備。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:54.283000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:45:56.884000+08:00","text":"那各國都用petaFLOPS計算還是用瓦數算？","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:45:57.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:00.406000+08:00","text":"現在已經沒有了，petaFLOPS是早期Supercomputer的……","quality":0.758},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:00.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:01.427000+08:00","text":"所以現在都是用瓦數算？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:02.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:02.307000+08:00","text":"你確定喔？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:02.908000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:04.248000+08:00","text":"對，現在是這樣沒有錯。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:04.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:05.969000+08:00","text":"那我們就要看一下breakdown啊！","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:06.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:17.255000+08:00","text":"不然到時候瓦數買了，大家特別買一些高功耗的產品，結果算力卻比較弱，平均起來，雖然你說耗電量超大、算力很強，實際上算力卻不夠，這樣很怪喔！","quality":0.883},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:17.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:20.377000+08:00","text":"應該沒有人會那麼笨，故意買高耗能產品。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:21.637000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:23.618000+08:00","text":"我相信主委不會那麼笨啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:24.698000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:29.380000+08:00","text":"但是可能有人刻意、不小心、不聰明的話，這樣不太好啦！","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:29.900000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:32.640000+08:00","text":"所以我希望大家一起關注這個部分好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:33.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:33.841000+08:00","text":"這不是玩笑啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:34.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:35.441000+08:00","text":"因為這都是民脂民膏，好不好？好。","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:37.042000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:44.445000+08:00","text":"接下來，謝謝你們準備這份業務報告，但是我覺得有點緊張啊！","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:44.445000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:46.185000+08:00","text":"機器人的部分很重要嘛！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:46.585000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:47.526000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:47.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:51.047000+08:00","text":"光是我們提到的，全球是百億、千億在投入啊！","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:52.168000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:55.749000+08:00","text":"那麼機器人在這次業務報告裡占多少，主委有沒有概念？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:59.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:46:59.091000+08:00","text":"在第85頁。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:46:59.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:01.192000+08:00","text":"你猜一下大概占多少，這應該很重要嘛！","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:02.012000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:02.472000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:02.472000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:03.333000+08:00","text":"你猜一下占多少。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:04.879000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:05.900000+08:00","text":"你應該看過這份嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:06.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:06.821000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:06.821000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:07.221000+08:00","text":"重不重要？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:07.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:07.962000+08:00","text":"很重要嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:08.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:10.444000+08:00","text":"行政院智慧機器人方案……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:11.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:12.266000+08:00","text":"投百億嘛！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:13.006000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:13.687000+08:00","text":"千億下去嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:15.208000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:15.949000+08:00","text":"total總共差不多200億元。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:16.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:16.869000+08:00","text":"200億元，對啊！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:17.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:17.950000+08:00","text":"占多少嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:19.352000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:20.493000+08:00","text":"第85頁占多少？第85頁……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:20.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:21.453000+08:00","text":"你有沒有概念？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:22.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:23.055000+08:00","text":"我是說這次業務報告啦！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:23.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:24.256000+08:00","text":"你應該看過嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:27.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:32.022000+08:00","text":"主委，時間有限，你翻到第11頁好不好？第11頁？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:32.022000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:34.117000+08:00","text":"對，第11頁。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:34.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:38.358000+08:00","text":"智慧機器人在這次業務報告裡竟然只占了10行啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:39.079000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:41.239000+08:00","text":"你是說幾行喔？10行啊！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:42.360000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:45.240000+08:00","text":"照比例看起來，是一百七十分之一喔！","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:48.641000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:52.623000+08:00","text":"你們年度預算也不過就這些，其中200億元不少欸！","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:53.863000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:55.483000+08:00","text":"沒有關係，我理解……","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:56.984000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:57.324000+08:00","text":"是不少啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:57.744000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:47:58.124000+08:00","text":"對，不少啊！","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:47:58.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:01.087000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得規劃還不夠啦！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:02.969000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:07.453000+08:00","text":"你仔細看一下第11頁，描述非常空泛……","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:08.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:10.415000+08:00","text":"報告委員，行政院那個方案也公告了。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:10.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:14.118000+08:00","text":"我理解，我都拿在手上了，行政院的方案我有拿到。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:15.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:21.681000+08:00","text":"我想講的是機器人產業對臺灣的產業整合非常有意義，而且很重要，為什麼？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:21.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:27.223000+08:00","text":"在行政院方案的第8頁就寫了臺灣為什麼要著重機器人？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:27.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:31.664000+08:00","text":"第一個很重要的原因是半導體製造優勢，這是行政院說的。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:32.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:34.868000+08:00","text":"第二是資通訊技術的優勢，行政院說的。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:35.288000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:47.243000+08:00","text":"第三，研發能量很強，臺灣的machine learning（ML）、computer vision（CV）跟自然語言處理（NLP）都很強，這三者整合起來就是機器人產業。","quality":0.887},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:47.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:48:59.293000+08:00","text":"但是我們還是有點擔心，這10行的描述有一點空泛，又有點小，怎麼布局、怎麼定位、任務是什麼？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:48:59.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:02.375000+08:00","text":"主委現在有沒有很明確的說法啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:02.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:05.997000+08:00","text":"你看，打中國功夫的打中國功夫啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:07.318000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:08.758000+08:00","text":"恐怖人形機器人都出了啊！","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:10.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:12.761000+08:00","text":"我想問問主委有沒有明確的布局？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:13.181000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:13.981000+08:00","text":"不然我們看得很緊張啊！","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:16.254000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:27.437000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們要做服務型機器人，除了產業需求，也要應付社會各種各樣需求，我們會借助臺灣既有供應鏈，很多廠商都已經準備好了。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:28.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:38.039000+08:00","text":"我們要發展系統、發展應用服務，這是現在的重點，而不是要打擂臺、踢來踢去，這不是現在的重點。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:38.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:44.880000+08:00","text":"在健康照護、旅宿餐飲等各種社會需求、甚至防救災這些領域，我們都會發展。","quality":0.645},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:45.420000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:49:50.922000+08:00","text":"主委，我還要提醒你一下，我們可以不跟人家打擂臺，但別人可能會來跟我們打擂臺啦！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:49:52.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:02.206000+08:00","text":"我理解服務機器人是一種路線，但我還是要提醒主委，智慧機器人還是應該包含人形，不是你說「我不跟你打」，別人就不會來打你喔！","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:02.206000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:04.467000+08:00","text":"我們沒有排斥。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:04.467000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:06.308000+08:00","text":"所以我想這一塊還是要往前衝啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:07.008000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:11.790000+08:00","text":"不要說「我們來不及了」、「我們比較晚了」、「我們害怕」，絕對不害怕！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:12.231000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:16.192000+08:00","text":"人家要打擂臺，我們就要跟人家打，好不好？","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:16.192000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:17.213000+08:00","text":"對，我們作學術研究，對所有機器人……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:17.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:17.833000+08:00","text":"不要限制。","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:17.833000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:19.474000+08:00","text":"沒有限制。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:19.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:22.095000+08:00","text":"好，這一點我希望您未來還是要持續協作。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:22.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:37.819000+08:00","text":"接著還是要繼續請教，在我們剛剛提到的10行字裡面，提到要補助學界、協助學界研發，我先代替學界感謝。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:37.819000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:50:50.602000+08:00","text":"但是我其實也看到教育部啟動了一項頂尖研究中心的計畫，對於5家大學、6大研究中心，一年要投3億元，每一個中心分起來大概是一年5,000萬元啦！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:50:51.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:06.836000+08:00","text":"雖然這是教育部的計畫，但是您是AI的大家長，又是政務委員，我想請教、也希望關注一下，國科會對於這6大研究中心有沒有額外去matching？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:06.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:16.823000+08:00","text":"也就是說教育部已經投5,000萬元了，而我知道其中幾個計畫有做機器人、有做robot learning，那我們可不可以集合起來、產生綜效？","quality":0.797},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:17.384000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:20.265000+08:00","text":"因為5,000萬元要研究這個，跟國際比起來，老實說不多啦！","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:21.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:28.470000+08:00","text":"國科會可不可以對這些研究中心再補進去，以產生綜效？","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:28.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:31.322000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，有沒有這樣的規劃？有啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:32.363000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:41.711000+08:00","text":"所有大學、教育部支持的這些研究中心也會同步申請國科會的研究計畫，這是沒有問題的。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:42.251000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:50.378000+08:00","text":"我知道您會這樣回答，但是我想講的是國科會能不能主動、積極地協助？","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:50.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:54.020000+08:00","text":"而不是坐在這裡等著他們來申請。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:54.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:59.425000+08:00","text":"主委也能理解，申請研究計畫很花時間，而且申請了還不一定通過，對不對？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:59.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:51:59.605000+08:00","text":"沒錯嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:51:59.605000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:52:03.267000+08:00","text":"所以我是真心的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:52:03.267000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:52:11.271000+08:00","text":"我們歡迎他們來申請，但不能主動給他們錢，沒有經過審查程序是不行的。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:52:11.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:52:19.675000+08:00","text":"可以有審查程序，但是能不能針對這幾處研究中心補助，讓他們產生綜效？","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:52:21.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:52:31.780000+08:00","text":"我清楚本來就可以讓他們申請，但是他們一邊要教學，一邊要設立研發中心，又要一邊寫新的計畫向國科會申請。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:52:31.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:52:37.482000+08:00","text":"其實學者們的時間是有限的……他們還要寫計畫申請Taipei-1的算力。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:52:38.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:52:48.026000+08:00","text":"我請主委研議一下，畢竟教育部、國科會都希望能夠減少行政成本，我們的優勢人才才能跟國際競爭啊！","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:52:49.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:52:53.507000+08:00","text":"主委可不可以研議一下，1個月內研議可能性，好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:52:53.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:52:55.328000+08:00","text":"就是怎麼樣產生綜效啦！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:52:55.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:06.070000+08:00","text":"我不是要批評或什麼，而是真的在幫臺灣學界發聲，不然5,000萬元……","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:06.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:07.771000+08:00","text":"可以、可以，我們可以跟教育部……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:08.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:09.991000+08:00","text":"討論一下、協調一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:11.112000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:12.152000+08:00","text":"對，讓綜效可以發揮得更好。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:12.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:13.352000+08:00","text":"太好了，謝謝主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:13.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:20.418000+08:00","text":"很高興在新的會期看到主委，我相信這樣的正向協作機制可以設立起來。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:20.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:24.822000+08:00","text":"剛剛您提到的研議結果在1個月內提供給我的辦公室好不好？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:25.062000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:26.604000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葛委員如鈞","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:26.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:27.324000+08:00","text":"謝謝主委、謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員秀寳）","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:28.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:30.307000+08:00","text":"謝謝葛如鈞委員的質詢，主委請回座。","quality":0.733},{"speaker":"主席（陳委員秀寳）","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:30.807000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:33.949857+08:00","text":"接下來請伍麗華委員質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:53:34.249857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:42.821286+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主席，有請主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:43.121286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:44.264143+08:00","text":"請吳主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:53:44.564143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:45.707000+08:00","text":"伍委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:53:46.007000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:53:53.149857+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委好。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:53:53.449857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:54:09.735571+08:00","text":"我們都知道國科會審查科技預算，我先了解一下，科技預算在112年度是一千三百二十七億多元，113年下降到1,276億元，114年又上升到1,466億元，那麼115年呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:54:10.035571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:54:14.035571+08:00","text":"115年現在編列一千六百六十幾億元。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:54:14.335571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:54:23.764143+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，現在是一千六百多億元。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:54:24.064143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:54:48.349857+08:00","text":"我們來看一下，過去各部會都會提案，在原民會這邊，我看到它110年到113年度的核定本是這麼提的：要做無線寬頻來增加涵蓋率、要做友善耕作的養殖技法，又提出就那些小微型企業強化產品特色跟創新服務模式。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:54:48.649857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:10.078429+08:00","text":"我想了解一下，主委，我不知道原民會歷年都怎麼提，但是依我看到的，加上衛福部、教育部、數發部等部會有一些也做在原偏鄉、原住民身上的相關費用，每一年度大概可以得到1億元左右。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:55:10.378429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:13.521286+08:00","text":"這1億元大概是什麼比例呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:55:13.821286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:19.821286+08:00","text":"1億元在大水庫裡面，大概就是萬分之五這樣的比例。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:55:20.121286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:31.835571+08:00","text":"我想，這樣會讓人覺得原住民跟科技好像拉不上關係，或者讓人覺得原住民可能不太需要科技預算。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:55:32.135571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:42.707000+08:00","text":"在原民會整個計畫與想法裡面，他們可能不太知道到底要怎麼提報計畫，以爭取科技預算。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:55:43.007000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:45.292714+08:00","text":"主委，你有沒有建議？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:55:45.592714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:51.592714+08:00","text":"報告委員，原民會自己提出來的科技計畫應該不多。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:55:51.892714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:53.035571+08:00","text":"為什麼呢？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:55:53.335571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:55:59.335571+08:00","text":"因為整個原民會執行科技預算的能量其實並不高。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:55:59.635571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:56:06.207000+08:00","text":"但我們並不會因為這樣，就對原民會的協助減少，並沒有！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:56:06.507000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:56:23.649857+08:00","text":"譬如說太空計畫雖然編在國科會太空中心，可是我們是跟原民會一起執行，對原住民族還有偏鄉部落加以照顧，不會只限定在原民會提出的計畫。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:56:23.949857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:56:37.378429+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，主委，這就是我要請教您的主要原因，因為我覺得很可惜啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:56:37.678429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:56:43.964143+08:00","text":"各部會要提報、要拿計畫來，但是想像起來就會有限啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:56:44.264143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:56:54.835571+08:00","text":"所以我想請教國科會主委，以您的角色，您覺得原民會其實可以做哪些跟科技有關的計畫？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:56:55.135571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:57:04.849857+08:00","text":"其實我們都在進行當中，譬如說，除了我剛才講的太空科技計畫之外，還有科普教育。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:57:05.149857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:57:12.292714+08:00","text":"在各個地方，我們除了跟縣市政府合作之外，也跟原民會合作。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:57:12.592714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:57:23.735571+08:00","text":"在國科會研究計畫資助學者部分，在各個領域、學門，只要跟原住民族有關，我們也都鼓勵他們跟……","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:57:24.035571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:57:39.749857+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委，這些我都了解，我只是希望在這個質詢臺上聽到一些國科會給他們的建議。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:57:40.049857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:57:51.478429+08:00","text":"我舉個例子來講，前面那位委員提到機器人，我覺得我們現正推動族語教學，很需要語言機器人啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:57:51.778429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:57:55.778429+08:00","text":"如果原民會提報這個計畫，可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:57:56.078429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:57:57.078429+08:00","text":"可以啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:57:57.378429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:57:58.807000+08:00","text":"可以支持啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:57:59.107000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:58:05.964143+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:58:06.264143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:58:25.407000+08:00","text":"像我們正在推在宅醫療，而針對原鄉，我之前就特別強調，原住民有特別多的洗腎病患，要從那麼偏遠的地方去醫院洗腎，一個禮拜三次，說實在的，對他們來說很辛苦。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:58:25.707000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:58:40.278429+08:00","text":"我看到國外有洗腎車，我希望也能到原偏鄉服務，後來他們告訴我，其實可以搭配在宅醫療計畫，也同意未來可以做在家洗腎。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:58:40.578429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:58:50.864143+08:00","text":"但是很多族人告訴我還是有一些條件，包括家裡要有人會做護理，有些人是獨居老人啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:58:51.164143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:58:56.021286+08:00","text":"所以可不可以研究以什麼樣的方式去做？","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:58:56.321286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:59:02.035571+08:00","text":"或者因應很多這樣獨居的人，有沒有照顧機器人？","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:59:02.335571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:59:05.192714+08:00","text":"還有很多老人家獨居嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:59:05.492714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:59:15.778429+08:00","text":"或者可不可以由原民會提報計畫，讓所有55歲以上原住民老人都有一只智慧手錶，可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:59:16.078429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:59:20.078429+08:00","text":"對於這一類計畫，其實我們很歡迎。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:59:20.378429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:59:27.521286+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：歡迎嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:59:27.821286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:59:30.964143+08:00","text":"那我叫原民會多動頭腦。好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T11:59:31.264143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T11:59:53.549857+08:00","text":"因為主政是衛福部，我們其實也正與衛福部努力合作，要推動醫療分級，除了醫學中心、大醫院之外，希望能夠到偏鄉、甚至到家戶、到住宅，也就是在宅醫療，我們跟衛福部現正合作推動這個計畫。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T11:59:53.849857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:00:00.421286+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:00:00.721286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:00:09.292714+08:00","text":"經濟部也會進來，因為涉及醫材產業；數發部也會進來，處理AI應用服務。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:00:09.592714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:00:17.021286+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:00:17.321286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:00:25.035571+08:00","text":"關於原民、偏鄉部分，我們當然很希望跟地方政府還有原民會合作。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:00:25.335571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:00:35.335571+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主委，您這樣說，我就放心了。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:00:35.635571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:00:59.064143+08:00","text":"其實我覺得要的東西很多跟科技有關，因為既然是偏鄉，為了達到數位平權、弭平數位落差，政府本來就必須給予積極性的差別待遇，而不是認為愈偏鄉就愈不需要，而是政府應該給予積極的差別待遇。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:00:59.364143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:01:13.078429+08:00","text":"像這次花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖事件，科技防災就發揮很大的功效，因為有無人機團隊去偵查、運補，真的發揮很大的功效。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:01:13.378429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:01:21.664143+08:00","text":"我也覺得，其實原民會可以多提一些科技防災的想法，像我們就很需要。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:01:21.964143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:01:24.821286+08:00","text":"人才培育也可以給錢嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:01:25.121286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:01:27.692714+08:00","text":"人才培育也可以，但是……","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:01:27.992714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:01:36.278429+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：像是飛手的訓練。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:01:36.578429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:01:57.721286+08:00","text":"但是部會爭取到預算要有執行單位，因為它不是由公務員執行，必須要有執行單位，如果這些執行單位又都是學界、產業界，其實是不能重疊，所以我是希望原民會能與其他部會合作。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:01:58.021286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:02:06.592714+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：當然是要合作，但是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:02:06.892714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:02:11.464143+08:00","text":"如果是它自己提，我是怕它無法執行啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:02:11.764143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:02:21.478429+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：關於這個部分，我們會來要求。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:02:21.778429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:02:25.492714+08:00","text":"因為學界一定會連結到國科會。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:02:25.792714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:02:44.078429+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，連結是可以，但是你說它獨立的量能有問題，但有時候與人家合作，如果不夠積極也很容易被邊緣化。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:02:44.378429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:02:47.235571+08:00","text":"是，所以部會之間的合作……","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:02:47.535571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:03:00.964143+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我還是希望它能有一個獨立的科技預算，至少要有責任感啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:03:01.264143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:03:19.264143+08:00","text":"包括我們講的這些農噴、這些無人機的運用等，我們希望你們的研究成果落地，這些科技包括我剛剛講的語言機器人等等，我們都希望能夠處理，謝謝主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:03:19.564143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:03:27.278429+08:00","text":"聽到你這樣的回應，我覺得至少可以讓原民會有一個方向，謝謝你。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:03:27.578429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:04:02.149857+08:00","text":"另外一個部分，其實我也想要再請教一下主委，因為有很多的原住民學者專家非常在意，所以我才會好幾次提出質詢，之前我在6月18日就原住民學門的建構提出質詢，當時主委允諾朝原民期刊的方向，跨部會培力專題研究團隊，因此我也在7月3日邀請國科會的夥伴召開諮詢會議，他們也給我3個承諾。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:04:02.449857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:04:08.164143+08:00","text":"第一個，彙整散落各地的期刊論文，把它變成專書。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:04:08.464143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:04:15.892714+08:00","text":"第二個，國際期刊的部分就由國際學會支持國內教授爭取主持。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:04:16.192714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:04:22.192714+08:00","text":"第三個就是知識培力團隊跨部會討論，並副知本辦。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:04:22.492714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:04:34.778429+08:00","text":"到現在已經過了3個月，我又站在質詢台上，因為我並沒有拿到相關的資料，所以想要請教是否已經盤點了？","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:04:35.078429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:04:39.364143+08:00","text":"至少要把期程與規劃的方向告訴我？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:04:39.664143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:04:59.378429+08:00","text":"我們人文處其實已經積極在進行，有關國際期刊的部分，目前臺灣學界評估的結果認為現在沒有能力以這個主題成為一個國際性的期刊，因為國科會是一個行政機關……","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:04:59.678429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:05:07.678429+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：但是有提到啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:05:07.978429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:05:13.121286+08:00","text":"我們討論時是說由國內教授爭取主持學會。","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:05:13.421286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:05:21.707000+08:00","text":"如果國內教授要成立一個學會，這個學會要去辦期刊，國科會會支持的。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:05:22.007000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:05:40.864143+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我希望能拿到相關的規劃與期程，總不能給了我一些承諾，然後好幾個月過去了，我也不知道到底結果如何？","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:05:41.164143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:05:42.164143+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:05:42.464143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:05:47.035571+08:00","text":"好，我請我們的人文處把報告送給委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:05:47.335571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:05:55.049857+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:05:55.349857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:05:58.778429+08:00","text":"主委，你應該明白我的心思啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:05:59.078429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:06:00.078429+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:06:00.378429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:06:09.807000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：原民學術化、學術原民化。是。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:06:10.107000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:06:43.821286+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我的意思是我們不應該好像只是讓原民進入整個學術界，而是希望整個學術界能夠有原民化、族群主流化的概念，這對整個原住民未來的提升是非常重要的，因此我一直希望朝專書出版去累積原民的學術能量，建立這樣的一個基礎。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:06:44.121286+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:07:10.692714+08:00","text":"現在政府也編很多錢在做原住民的知識體系，但是我覺得進展非常的慢，而且我也認為方向及方法是有點問題，所以我希望藉著國科會的力量以專書及期刊等方式，慢慢將原住民知識生產的方式及其實踐的方法學架構起來。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:07:10.992714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:07:19.849857+08:00","text":"因此，我希望在1個月內能夠針對今天我關心的這些問題給我一個回應，好嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"吳主任委員誠文","start":"2025-10-22T12:07:20.149857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:07:21.292714+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":null,"start":"2025-10-22T12:07:21.592714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:07:29.307000+08:00","text":"伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T12:07:29.607000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:07:33.607000+08:00","text":"謝謝伍麗華委員質詢，請主委回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-10-22T12:07:33.907000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-10-22T12:07:37.049857+08:00","text":"接下來請吳沛憶委員質詢。","quality":0}]},"gazette":{"lineno":727,"blocks":[["葛委員如鈞：（11時40分）謝謝！有請主委。"],["主席：有請主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：葛委員好。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委好！很高興可以在這個會期再看到你，希望可以一起繼續協作。首先想拜託主委一件事，NVIDIA之前有來臺灣設立所謂的創新研發中心，還有超級電腦算力Taipei-1，請問主委知不知道Taipei-1在哪裡？"],["吳主任委員誠文：在高雄。"],["葛委員如鈞：對，對於用這樣的一個機制去提供全臺算力的協助，我覺得非常感謝，不過根據我們的瞭解，經濟部在申請資格這裡有一個很奇怪的設計，就是根據NVIDIA的算力管理規定，申請單位在申請的時候一次須完整使用6周或12周。而我們研究了一下發現，其實也有團隊向我們反映，最後申請下來的多半是以6周為主，很少有人可以拿到12周，為什麼？因為太多人想用了。而且這6周又必須是連續的，沒有辦法申請長一點的時間，可是只用譬如說十二分之一的算力。有團隊反映很感謝有這樣的機制，但是我們都知道、我想主委一定也很清楚，就科學研究而言，6周差不多等於一個半月，要在一個半月之內就做出成果真的相當困難。所以，在這個trial and error的過程裡有沒有機會……我是希望幫學術單位向您反映，有沒有更有彈性的使用機制？我們也了解，其實NVIDIA根本沒有這個算力規定啦！您身為AI的大家長，能不能跟經濟部討論？我知道這是經濟部處理的，可是可不可以協作、試一下，能不能有更彈性的使用方式？"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為這是經濟部的業務，我並不了解他們現在運作的狀況，但對於委員的意見，我會跟經濟部溝通一下。"],["葛委員如鈞：因為您是政委，同時也是主委，我相信很多科研單位都是向你們申請計畫，獲得計畫補助以後，他們也確實使用算力作研究，所以希望主委關心一下，看看能不能提供更好的彈性方式？否則，其實有很多單位向我們反映，最後他們都只能使用AWS或其他雲端算力，費用也很高昂，整體來講，我覺得有點可惜。","另一方面，為什麼最後都只能申請到6周？也是因為可能會有算力不足的狀況，導致大家都在搶算力。我想請教一下，有沒有Taipei-2的計畫？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我沒有聽過欸！"],["葛委員如鈞：那可不可以幫忙爭取一下？我想NVIDIA在臺灣遇到這樣的挑戰，不知道我們接下來還能不能持續跟他深化合作，所以我希望主委再投出一顆好球，好不好？有沒有機會研議一下這個部分，來幫我們的學者爭取？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們現在其實有鼓勵民間投資啦！像緯創資通林董事長也宣布他們要建置資料中心，且願意提供一部分算力，鼓勵學界研發成果商業化等部分。"],["葛委員如鈞：很好，這次是NVIDIA提供25%算力，我希望這樣的機制能夠擴大。","另外，整體來講，算力可能還是有不夠的狀況，接下來我們有沒有新的算力中心可以期待，讓這些研究機構或產業不要這樣用搶的、又搶不到，時間還很短？能不能給我們一個願景，接下來會有更大的算力中心或算力池？大概什麼時間、多大的算力讓大家有機會且可以期待？主委有沒有大概的願景可以讓我們關注一下？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們預算正在逐年編列，其實也跟委員報告過，我們會在臺南建置算力中心，包含南科，也就是臺南園區的設施已經完工了，正在裝置設備。公建計畫方面，從明年（115年）起設計沙崙的Data Center，我們也都會提供給學術界來……"],["葛委員如鈞：在採購的部分，預算都已經下去了嗎？是採購NVIDIA或其他新的算力petaFLOPS？有沒有預計啊？"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在算力不算petaFLOPS，用的是耗電，因為不是只有……"],["葛委員如鈞：用瓦數來算就對了？"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，因為真正的算力可以用消耗的功率計算，現在的GPU大概都差不多，所以我們採購的設備現在沒有限定哪一家……"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，對不起打斷你，我請教一下，如果用電力耗損度來看、而不是用petaFLOPS來算的話，我要是買一些比較舊型的顯卡或舊型算力裝置，可能因為它屬於比較舊的奈米製程，耗電功率比較大，雖然從瓦數來看好像比較厲害，可是實際上算力可能反而比較低，要怎麼避免這樣的問題啊？"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有錯，所以在比較的時候很難有公平的比法，在比的時候，當然要談現有設備，不是老的設備。"],["葛委員如鈞：那各國都用petaFLOPS計算還是用瓦數算？"],["吳主任委員誠文：現在已經沒有了，petaFLOPS是早期Supercomputer的……"],["葛委員如鈞：所以現在都是用瓦數算？你確定喔？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，現在是這樣沒有錯。"],["葛委員如鈞：那我們就要看一下breakdown啊！不然到時候瓦數買了，大家特別買一些高功耗的產品，結果算力卻比較弱，平均起來，雖然你說耗電量超大、算力很強，實際上算力卻不夠，這樣很怪喔！"],["吳主任委員誠文：應該沒有人會那麼笨，故意買高耗能產品。"],["葛委員如鈞：我相信主委不會那麼笨啦！但是可能有人刻意、不小心、不聰明的話，這樣不太好啦！所以我希望大家一起關注這個部分好不好？這不是玩笑啦！因為這都是民脂民膏，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。"],["葛委員如鈞：接下來，謝謝你們準備這份業務報告，但是我覺得有點緊張啊！機器人的部分很重要嘛！對不對？光是我們提到的，全球是百億、千億在投入啊！那麼機器人在這次業務報告裡占多少，主委有沒有概念？在第85頁。你猜一下大概占多少，這應該很重要嘛！對不對？你猜一下占多少。你應該看過這份嘛！對不對？重不重要？很重要嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：行政院智慧機器人方案……"],["葛委員如鈞：投百億嘛！千億下去嘛！"],["吳主任委員誠文：total總共差不多200億元。"],["葛委員如鈞：200億元，對啊！占多少嘛？第85頁占多少？"],["吳主任委員誠文：第85頁……"],["葛委員如鈞：你有沒有概念？我是說這次業務報告啦！你應該看過嘛！主委，時間有限，你翻到第11頁好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：第11頁？"],["葛委員如鈞：對，第11頁。智慧機器人在這次業務報告裡竟然只占了10行啊！"],["吳主任委員誠文：你是說幾行喔？"],["葛委員如鈞：10行啊！照比例看起來，是一百七十分之一喔！你們年度預算也不過就這些，其中200億元不少欸！沒有關係，我理解……"],["吳主任委員誠文：是不少啊！"],["葛委員如鈞：對，不少啊！但是我覺得規劃還不夠啦！","你仔細看一下第11頁，描述非常空泛……"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，行政院那個方案也公告了。"],["葛委員如鈞：我理解，我都拿在手上了，行政院的方案我有拿到。","我想講的是機器人產業對臺灣的產業整合非常有意義，而且很重要，為什麼？在行政院方案的第8頁就寫了臺灣為什麼要著重機器人？第一個很重要的原因是半導體製造優勢，這是行政院說的。第二是資通訊技術的優勢，行政院說的。第三，研發能量很強，臺灣的machine learning（ML）、computer vision（CV）跟自然語言處理（NLP）都很強，這三者整合起來就是機器人產業。但是我們還是有點擔心，這10行的描述有一點空泛，又有點小，怎麼布局、怎麼定位、任務是什麼？主委現在有沒有很明確的說法啊？你看，打中國功夫的打中國功夫啊！恐怖人形機器人都出了啊！我想問問主委有沒有明確的布局？不然我們看得很緊張啊！"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，我們要做服務型機器人，除了產業需求，也要應付社會各種各樣需求，我們會借助臺灣既有供應鏈，很多廠商都已經準備好了。我們要發展系統、發展應用服務，這是現在的重點，而不是要打擂臺、踢來踢去，這不是現在的重點。在健康照護、旅宿餐飲等各種社會需求、甚至防救災這些領域，我們都會發展。"],["葛委員如鈞：主委，我還要提醒你一下，我們可以不跟人家打擂臺，但別人可能會來跟我們打擂臺啦！我理解服務機器人是一種路線，但我還是要提醒主委，智慧機器人還是應該包含人形，不是你說「我不跟你打」，別人就不會來打你喔！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們沒有排斥。"],["葛委員如鈞：所以我想這一塊還是要往前衝啦！不要說「我們來不及了」、「我們比較晚了」、「我們害怕」，絕對不害怕！人家要打擂臺，我們就要跟人家打，好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，我們作學術研究，對所有機器人……"],["葛委員如鈞：不要限制。"],["吳主任委員誠文：沒有限制。"],["葛委員如鈞：好，這一點我希望您未來還是要持續協作。","接著還是要繼續請教，在我們剛剛提到的10行字裡面，提到要補助學界、協助學界研發，我先代替學界感謝。但是我其實也看到教育部啟動了一項頂尖研究中心的計畫，對於5家大學、6大研究中心，一年要投3億元，每一個中心分起來大概是一年5,000萬元啦！雖然這是教育部的計畫，但是您是AI的大家長，又是政務委員，我想請教、也希望關注一下，國科會對於這6大研究中心有沒有額外去matching？也就是說教育部已經投5,000萬元了，而我知道其中幾個計畫有做機器人、有做robot learning，那我們可不可以集合起來、產生綜效？因為5,000萬元要研究這個，跟國際比起來，老實說不多啦！國科會可不可以對這些研究中心再補進去，以產生綜效？我想請教一下，有沒有這樣的規劃？"],["吳主任委員誠文：有啊！所有大學、教育部支持的這些研究中心也會同步申請國科會的研究計畫，這是沒有問題的。"],["葛委員如鈞：我知道您會這樣回答，但是我想講的是國科會能不能主動、積極地協助？而不是坐在這裡等著他們來申請。主委也能理解，申請研究計畫很花時間，而且申請了還不一定通過，對不對？沒錯嘛！所以我是真心的……"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們歡迎他們來申請，但不能主動給他們錢，沒有經過審查程序是不行的。"],["葛委員如鈞：可以有審查程序，但是能不能針對這幾處研究中心補助，讓他們產生綜效？我清楚本來就可以讓他們申請，但是他們一邊要教學，一邊要設立研發中心，又要一邊寫新的計畫向國科會申請。其實學者們的時間是有限的……他們還要寫計畫申請Taipei-1的算力。我請主委研議一下，畢竟教育部、國科會都希望能夠減少行政成本，我們的優勢人才才能跟國際競爭啊！主委可不可以研議一下，1個月內研議可能性，好不好？就是怎麼樣產生綜效啦！我不是要批評或什麼，而是真的在幫臺灣學界發聲，不然5,000萬元……"],["吳主任委員誠文：可以、可以，我們可以跟教育部……"],["葛委員如鈞：討論一下、協調一下？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對，讓綜效可以發揮得更好。"],["葛委員如鈞：太好了，謝謝主委。很高興在新的會期看到主委，我相信這樣的正向協作機制可以設立起來。剛剛您提到的研議結果在1個月內提供給我的辦公室好不好？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，謝謝委員。"],["葛委員如鈞：謝謝主委、謝謝主席。"],["主席（陳委員秀寳）：謝謝葛如鈞委員的質詢，主委請回座。","接下來請伍麗華委員質詢。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主席，有請主委。"],["主席：請吳主委。"],["吳主任委員誠文：伍委員好。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委好。我們都知道國科會審查科技預算，我先了解一下，科技預算在112年度是一千三百二十七億多元，113年下降到1,276億元，114年又上升到1,466億元，那麼115年呢？"],["吳主任委員誠文：115年現在編列一千六百六十幾億元。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，現在是一千六百多億元。","我們來看一下，過去各部會都會提案，在原民會這邊，我看到它110年到113年度的核定本是這麼提的：要做無線寬頻來增加涵蓋率、要做友善耕作的養殖技法，又提出就那些小微型企業強化產品特色跟創新服務模式。","我想了解一下，主委，我不知道原民會歷年都怎麼提，但是依我看到的，加上衛福部、教育部、數發部等部會有一些也做在原偏鄉、原住民身上的相關費用，每一年度大概可以得到1億元左右。這1億元大概是什麼比例呢？1億元在大水庫裡面，大概就是萬分之五這樣的比例。我想，這樣會讓人覺得原住民跟科技好像拉不上關係，或者讓人覺得原住民可能不太需要科技預算。在原民會整個計畫與想法裡面，他們可能不太知道到底要怎麼提報計畫，以爭取科技預算。主委，你有沒有建議？"],["吳主任委員誠文：報告委員，原民會自己提出來的科技計畫應該不多。為什麼呢？因為整個原民會執行科技預算的能量其實並不高。但我們並不會因為這樣，就對原民會的協助減少，並沒有！譬如說太空計畫雖然編在國科會太空中心，可是我們是跟原民會一起執行，對原住民族還有偏鄉部落加以照顧，不會只限定在原民會提出的計畫。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，主委，這就是我要請教您的主要原因，因為我覺得很可惜啊！各部會要提報、要拿計畫來，但是想像起來就會有限啊！所以我想請教國科會主委，以您的角色，您覺得原民會其實可以做哪些跟科技有關的計畫？"],["吳主任委員誠文：其實我們都在進行當中，譬如說，除了我剛才講的太空科技計畫之外，還有科普教育。在各個地方，我們除了跟縣市政府合作之外，也跟原民會合作。在國科會研究計畫資助學者部分，在各個領域、學門，只要跟原住民族有關，我們也都鼓勵他們跟……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：主委，這些我都了解，我只是希望在這個質詢臺上聽到一些國科會給他們的建議。我舉個例子來講，前面那位委員提到機器人，我覺得我們現正推動族語教學，很需要語言機器人啊！如果原民會提報這個計畫，可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：可以啊！可以支持啊！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：是嘛！","像我們正在推在宅醫療，而針對原鄉，我之前就特別強調，原住民有特別多的洗腎病患，要從那麼偏遠的地方去醫院洗腎，一個禮拜三次，說實在的，對他們來說很辛苦。我看到國外有洗腎車，我希望也能到原偏鄉服務，後來他們告訴我，其實可以搭配在宅醫療計畫，也同意未來可以做在家洗腎。但是很多族人告訴我還是有一些條件，包括家裡要有人會做護理，有些人是獨居老人啊！所以可不可以研究以什麼樣的方式去做？或者因應很多這樣獨居的人，有沒有照顧機器人？還有很多老人家獨居嘛！或者可不可以由原民會提報計畫，讓所有55歲以上原住民老人都有一只智慧手錶，可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：對於這一類計畫，其實我們很歡迎。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：歡迎嘛！那我叫原民會多動頭腦。"],["吳主任委員誠文：好。因為主政是衛福部，我們其實也正與衛福部努力合作，要推動醫療分級，除了醫學中心、大醫院之外，希望能夠到偏鄉、甚至到家戶、到住宅，也就是在宅醫療，我們跟衛福部現正合作推動這個計畫。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好。"],["吳主任委員誠文：經濟部也會進來，因為涉及醫材產業；數發部也會進來，處理AI應用服務。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝喔！"],["吳主任委員誠文：關於原民、偏鄉部分，我們當然很希望跟地方政府還有原民會合作。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝主委，您這樣說，我就放心了。其實我覺得要的東西很多跟科技有關，因為既然是偏鄉，為了達到數位平權、弭平數位落差，政府本來就必須給予積極性的差別待遇，而不是認為愈偏鄉就愈不需要，而是政府應該給予積極的差別待遇。","像這次花蓮馬太鞍溪堰塞湖事件，科技防災就發揮很大的功效，因為有無人機團隊去偵查、運補，真的發揮很大的功效。我也覺得，其實原民會可以多提一些科技防災的想法，像我們就很需要。","人才培育也可以給錢嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：人才培育也可以，但是……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：像是飛手的訓練。"],["吳主任委員誠文：但是部會爭取到預算要有執行單位，因為它不是由公務員執行，必須要有執行單位，如果這些執行單位又都是學界、產業界，其實是不能重疊，所以我是希望原民會能與其他部會合作。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：當然是要合作，但是……"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果是它自己提，我是怕它無法執行啦！"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：關於這個部分，我們會來要求。"],["吳主任委員誠文：因為學界一定會連結到國科會。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，連結是可以，但是你說它獨立的量能有問題，但有時候與人家合作，如果不夠積極也很容易被邊緣化。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是，所以部會之間的合作……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我還是希望它能有一個獨立的科技預算，至少要有責任感啦！包括我們講的這些農噴、這些無人機的運用等，我們希望你們的研究成果落地，這些科技包括我剛剛講的語言機器人等等，我們都希望能夠處理，謝謝主委。聽到你這樣的回應，我覺得至少可以讓原民會有一個方向，謝謝你。","另外一個部分，其實我也想要再請教一下主委，因為有很多的原住民學者專家非常在意，所以我才會好幾次提出質詢，之前我在6月18日就原住民學門的建構提出質詢，當時主委允諾朝原民期刊的方向，跨部會培力專題研究團隊，因此我也在7月3日邀請國科會的夥伴召開諮詢會議，他們也給我3個承諾。第一個，彙整散落各地的期刊論文，把它變成專書。第二個，國際期刊的部分就由國際學會支持國內教授爭取主持。第三個就是知識培力團隊跨部會討論，並副知本辦。到現在已經過了3個月，我又站在質詢台上，因為我並沒有拿到相關的資料，所以想要請教是否已經盤點了？至少要把期程與規劃的方向告訴我？"],["吳主任委員誠文：我們人文處其實已經積極在進行，有關國際期刊的部分，目前臺灣學界評估的結果認為現在沒有能力以這個主題成為一個國際性的期刊，因為國科會是一個行政機關……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：但是有提到啊！我們討論時是說由國內教授爭取主持學會。"],["吳主任委員誠文：如果國內教授要成立一個學會，這個學會要去辦期刊，國科會會支持的。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我希望能拿到相關的規劃與期程，總不能給了我一些承諾，然後好幾個月過去了，我也不知道到底結果如何？可以嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，我請我們的人文處把報告送給委員。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝主委。主委，你應該明白我的心思啦！"],["吳主任委員誠文：我知道。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：原民學術化、學術原民化。"],["吳主任委員誠文：是。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我的意思是我們不應該好像只是讓原民進入整個學術界，而是希望整個學術界能夠有原民化、族群主流化的概念，這對整個原住民未來的提升是非常重要的，因此我一直希望朝專書出版去累積原民的學術能量，建立這樣的一個基礎。現在政府也編很多錢在做原住民的知識體系，但是我覺得進展非常的慢，而且我也認為方向及方法是有點問題，所以我希望藉著國科會的力量以專書及期刊等方式，慢慢將原住民知識生產的方式及其實踐的方法學架構起來。因此，我希望在1個月內能夠針對今天我關心的這些問題給我一個回應，好嗎？"],["吳主任委員誠文：好，沒問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝主委。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員質詢，請主委回座。","接下來請吳沛憶委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":58,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-22-4","speakers":["陳秀寳","林沛祥","萬美玲","柯志恩","劉書彬","葉元之","羅廷瑋","范雲","郭昱晴","林宜瑾","張雅琳","葛如鈞","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","賴惠員","邱志偉","徐富癸","謝龍介"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-22"],"gazette_id":"1148801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148801_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期教育及文化委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家科學及技術委員會主任委員吳誠文列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148801_00001"}}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}