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現在公布長我們再請公布長張委員早 公布長早10月31號路透社做了一個很重要的報導 說台灣化石燃料發電的比例竟然高達"},{"start":47.249,"end":73.209,"text":"87%台灣已經成為淨零碳排的反指標他明確講的這個數據怎麼說他說今年前8個月台灣超過87%的電力供應都是來自於化石燃料這個是亞洲第八經濟體我們台灣現在是整個亞洲第八大的經濟體有史以來化石燃料占最高的一次所以創了台灣歷史的一個新高"},{"start":74.79,"end":103.843,"text":"他還特別講台灣化石燃料這個發電這個數額啊超過亞洲的平均水準亞洲平均水準是62我們87全球是57這意味著台灣在能源轉型啊在主要經濟體裡面人家用諷刺的字眼說我們啊脫穎而出我今天是要問你這個這對國家發展很重要這在國際上很見笑的啦丟臉了來部長我給你看一下這是古年啊"},{"start":105.625,"end":123.178,"text":"誒 那個科技指導那一張部長你記得嗎 你去年那個時候你在這邊打巡你那時候是國發會的主委嘛我那時候曾經引用一個那時候剛好這個聯合國企劃變遷大會啊 COP那時候第28第28"},{"start":129.537,"end":156.416,"text":"那時候我們的世界排名是我們的談判檢探的這個結果是全世界倒數第七那時候我還跟你要求國發會的主委 國民心說要趕快去解決這個問題對不對幾年怎麼過 結果到了我是秘書長任內你選擇國發會主委選擇秘書長那你在國發會秘書長的時候我就問過你說你要去解決這個問題那應該是前年吧是前年 結果你看"},{"start":157.406,"end":174.224,"text":"最近這一兩年你看我們在碳排這一塊在國際上排名都這麼糟糕怎麼辦這不是很沒有面子而且對我們整個健康整個產業甚至這個環境永續還有電價再生能源要趕快來發展因為這個"},{"start":175.509,"end":191.003,"text":"不是用化石的百分之十幾就是再生能源就是因為你的再生為什麼會這麼高化石燃料為什麼這麼高就是再生能源沒有跟上來嘛我們本來今年底我們政府本來再生能源要達到多少"},{"start":191.403,"end":220.866,"text":"以氣代替煤炭的話那個效果是存在的減碳是有存在的可是你兩件事沒有做好嘛對不對一個就是你再生能源的速度太慢嘛你本來今年底應該到至少要20啊到目前還在13 14那邊徘徊啊這是第一個嘛第二個更重要啊你把那個18%的那個沒有排碳的核能停掉了嘛所以你當然就全世界笑你啊沒有18%啦17到18啦三個廠 核一 核二 核三嘛一個大概都是6%左右嘛"},{"start":221.667,"end":238.148,"text":"最重要來我給你看來我們看一下我們美式政府都說我們減碳有成其實我們是在亞洲倒數而且啊現在一個很嚴重你看 沙烏地阿拉伯生產石油對不對"},{"start":240.293,"end":262.623,"text":"人家私有國家他排名206我們207耶連大陸都排在180來來來現在嚴重在什麼地方來看一看看下一張所以我們非核加鹽是不是用健康環境跟電價去堆疊出來的那個部長你看人家走下腳"},{"start":264.976,"end":291.863,"text":"對 我們當然就是剛剛提到的 以氣換煤的話就是往健康方向 空污也減少了你目前只有做了一個就是把煤炭少一點變成是天然氣 用這個來收水我剛才說的你就是把核電用完 核電 第一個核電停完之後造成的污染跟排炭第二個也很嚴重 我現在來講 來 你看一下核能 你看這一張 核能在今年的6月份歸零之後 左邊這個火力發電就一直成長"},{"start":293.749,"end":322.02,"text":"然後你再生能源又被跟上來嘛所以趕快去把這兩個問題要解決好不好來 我繼續看你路透社來講的一件事情就是我接下來跟你討論的他說啊 那大罷免期間啊民進黨立委都在講那個什麼我們小小多山的國家這個路透社說什麼台灣是多山而且人口稠密的島嶼不適合建造大規模的再生能源的這個發電廠所以我們再生能源到底被人家走這件事情出現那麼多弊案"},{"start":323.308,"end":347.98,"text":"特別是光電要好好去不要山跟海都是結果出現一堆彼岸來我給你看一個非常聳動而且非常重要的案子來不然你怎麼看法門北門啊有一個光電的開發案結果十幾位黑道啊赤嶺 你看那新區赤嶺赤鳳的跑到宮廟"},{"start":349.929,"end":378.491,"text":"去威脅當地的居民說你要同意這個開發隔一天人家就去報案了警察官後來都傳去了很聳動的是什麼這些人裡面包括了立陽案就是台南開88槍的立陽案一個主嫌蔡金郎也在裡面你看多麼無法無天多麼無法無天"},{"start":382.52,"end":409.906,"text":"我今天更生氣的是什麼我從7月份開始 民眾求助無門來陳情 我從7月份就跟你指手支跟經濟部 居民要的只有三個前面兩個跟你經濟部都有絕對的關係他說說明會不通知相關的利害人陳情明明是有問題啊第二個 整個光電能力開發的面積不斷在增加壓縮他們生活空間跟生活品質"},{"start":411.84,"end":433.308,"text":"這兩個都是經濟部能源署管的啊 對不對我從7月份喔 跟你所知到現在資料為什麼不給我居民求教無門 立法委員行政職權 要把問題弄清楚你到現在資料都不給我們現在民眾都講 你們什麼光電黑金的門審"},{"start":435.083,"end":455.11,"text":"你們是共患嗎這不是你們該做的事嗎保定為什麼連一個程序有問題了居民就直接問啊說明會相關的關係利害人都沒要吹然後你面積為什麼讓他擴大來我跟你來我給你所知的內容給大家看你看"},{"start":459.056,"end":479.042,"text":"我們請全民來看 當一個立法委員 街道陳情民眾那麼可憐 黑到都找上門了還有88槍的主嫌欸結果要的資料 這是不是都是你主管的我要把它釐清到底什麼環節出問題你為什麼到現在資料不給我"},{"start":480.978,"end":502.286,"text":"委員好 我們來說明一下因為這是好幾個不同的案件那有的當然已經進入司法程序那剛才委員提到司法人家檢察官後來就傳了包括這個主嫌都傳去嘛那我們現在談的是行政的問題啊包括剛剛講的他們陳情不都是你管的你看看 第二項你看這個陳情我手持的資料你看一下你看這個第二項"},{"start":510.151,"end":536.107,"text":"我要你土地性質跟使用分區他的開發用途有沒有變更你當初為什麼要核准核准文件在哪裡第三個你有沒有相關紀錄對不對你當初說明會跟地方協調會你的會議紀錄一定要送到你這邊嘛對不對都出問題了你連這個東西都不拿出來給大家看是的第一項是談的是什麼他們說範圍一直在擴大我說你把所有旁邊的到底沒有擴大給我"},{"start":539.217,"end":554.647,"text":"民眾那麼可憐 那你不幫他們連立委跟你要資料 這麼那個謝謝委員的關心那我知道委員長期很關心這些民眾的關心的事情那大概剛才提到資料"},{"start":555.607,"end":570.388,"text":"刚才提到事实上有好几个案件那有的已经进入司法程序那另外也就是说如果有发生什么弊案事实上我们有一个打击绿能犯罪小组我们随时都可以提供到那个小组那回到刚才委员比较关心的资料你有送吗"},{"start":571.169,"end":594.175,"text":"你發現你有送去那這個資料為什麼不能給司法有司法的這個程序嘛我現在跟你要的是行政的這個資料你為什麼給我是委員報告的就是我們委員在7月14有提到有關那個瑞日那麼有一些民眾抗爭的事情那事實上我們在8月15有給這個委員當時是要我們當時的組長當時的組長他相關的會議的資料那我們這個有把他16場主持的會議的資料記錄給委員"},{"start":600.817,"end":621.789,"text":"那另外委員還有要相關的資料齁剛才講到這些地址 這個我們正在整理那我們完成之後我們就會三個月到現在在整理喔是 因為委員要的很細啊你三天內可以給我嗎特別是第一項到這個第二大項裡面的暗藏跟他們那個開會的那個過程是你會記錄這三個 這三個在三天內給我"},{"start":624.946,"end":641.612,"text":"我們先整理因為委員當時要的資料很多那我們可以先把我們整理好的就提供給委員那陸續是不是容許我們再來三天內可以嗎我跟你講現在地方怎麼傳你啦現在經濟部經濟部已經形象要好了"},{"start":642.992,"end":671.09,"text":"順便寫我們一路會保證 經濟保證現在人家在那邊說你怎麼樣變成光電黑金的門神了啦 共犯了委員長期關心我們很重視委員的這些需要的資料那我們會全力盡力來盡速提供那我們可以先提供我們已經完成的部分是不是給委員那因為這個資料蠻多的那我們陸續整理那慢慢完備之後如果是允許我們逐批的給委員那這樣子可以讓委員馬上這邊也可以同步"},{"start":671.992,"end":677.79,"text":"來作業 已經整理了三個月了現在手上有人趕快給我最晚什麼時候會完整給我"},{"start":678.693,"end":702.982,"text":"我們可能要調閱資料因為委員要的資料最主要是那個現在居民最在意的你為什麼那個暗場一直在增加把他們整個包圍起來第二個明明就陳情了協調會跟說明會有狀況這個紀錄都在你手上嘛不要再經濟三高了你本來要去的就要有了嘛你至少把這兩個這兩個都是現成的你三天內先送到這邊要會議資料我們可以比較早提供啦那有些地目地號那個我們要仔細盤點"},{"start":704.462,"end":717.751,"text":"因為我們怕給未來的不正確先把那個會議紀錄 三天內先送過來然後注意一下 保定你現在是經濟部長我剛才在強調經濟部長久的形象是好的地方已經跟你們陳情然後這個新聞已經鬧這麼大"},{"start":721.609,"end":749.668,"text":"88槍的主嫌都已經檢方都調去問了只要是違法我們現在都是送那個廉政平台一條是司法嘛對不對一條你的行政體系你要去處理啊人家現在賣就是賣力啊畢竟整個綠營產業違規違法的部分還是少部分但是我們一定要把這些違規這個案子就很嚴重了好不好把經濟部的形象做好把人民的這個生活跟他們他們已經受到多大的影響好不好那資料趕快給我好 謝謝"},{"start":752.054,"end":752.075,"text":"好 謝謝謝謝張綺凱"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:04.203000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:04.343000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:04.343000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:06.044000+08:00","text":"請龔部長。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:06.044000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:13.526000+08:00","text":"再請龔部長。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:13.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:13.686000+08:00","text":"張委員早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:14.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:14.766000+08:00","text":"龔部長早。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:16.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:33.052000+08:00","text":"10月31號路透社做了一個很重要的報導，說臺灣化石燃料發電比例竟然高達87%，臺灣已經成為淨零碳排的反指標。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:33.052000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:55.189000+08:00","text":"他明確講出數據，今年前八個月臺灣超過87%的電力供應都是來自於化石燃料，臺灣現在是亞洲第八大的經濟體，有史以來，化石燃料占最高的一次，創了臺灣歷史的新高。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:56.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:14.738000+08:00","text":"他還特別講，臺灣化石燃料發電數額超過亞洲平均水準，亞洲平均水準是62%，我們87%，全球是57%，這意味著臺灣在主要經濟體裡面的能源轉型「脫穎而出」，人家是用諷刺的字眼。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:17.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:24.002000+08:00","text":"我今天是要問你這個，這對國家發展很重要，但在國際上很丟臉。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:32.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:33.390000+08:00","text":"部長，你還記得嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:33.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:05.487000+08:00","text":"你去年6月在這邊答詢，那時候你是國發會的主委，我引用聯合國氣候變遷大會COP28公布我們減碳的結果是全世界倒數第七，當時我還要求你、國發會主委龔明鑫要趕快去解決這個問題，對不對？","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:05.487000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:07.588000+08:00","text":"去年6月。沒有！","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:07.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:09.710000+08:00","text":"當時我在秘書長任內。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:09.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:12.632000+08:00","text":"你先當國發會主委，才去當秘書長。","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:12.632000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:16.014000+08:00","text":"那你在國發會的時候，我就問過你，要你去解決這個問題了。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:16.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:16.774000+08:00","text":"那應該是前年吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:18.235000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:26.534000+08:00","text":"結果你看最近這一、兩年我們在碳排這一塊的國際排名都這麼糟糕，怎麼辦？","quality":0.968},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:26.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:33.881000+08:00","text":"這不只是很沒有面子，而且對我們整個健康、整個產業，甚至環境永續，還有電價……","quality":0.969},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:33.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:34.422000+08:00","text":"為什麼要趕快發展再生能源？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:36.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:43.114000+08:00","text":"因為不是用化石的百分之十幾就是再生能源，所以我們在努力發展再生能源。","quality":0.656},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:44.615000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:45.456000+08:00","text":"化石燃料為什麼這麼高？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:45.997000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:52.983000+08:00","text":"就是再生能源沒有跟上來，本來政府今年底再生能源要達到多少？","quality":0.926},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:53.403000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:57.206000+08:00","text":"以氣代替煤炭的效果是存在的。對嘛！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:58.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:58.627000+08:00","text":"對減碳是有成效的。對嘛！","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:58.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:01.069000+08:00","text":"可是你兩件事沒有做好，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:01.069000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:09.035000+08:00","text":"第一個就是再生能源的速度太慢，本來今年底應該至少要到20%，到目前還在13、14%徘徊，這是第一個。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:09.415000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:16.781000+08:00","text":"第二個更重要，你把18%沒有排碳的核能停掉了，所以全世界當然就笑你。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:17.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:18.262000+08:00","text":"沒有18%。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:19.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:22.706000+08:00","text":"17到18%，三個廠包括核一、核二、核三，一個大概6%左右。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:23.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:23.887000+08:00","text":"最重要的是什麼？","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:25.409000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:40.148000+08:00","text":"來，我們看一下，每次政府都說我們減碳有成，其實我們是亞洲倒數，而且現在有一個很嚴重的，沙烏地阿拉伯生產石油，對不對？","quality":0.922},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:42.293000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:49.776000+08:00","text":"人家是石油國家，排名206，我們是207，連大陸都排在180。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:52.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:54.078000+08:00","text":"現在嚴重在什麼地方？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:54.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:02.102000+08:00","text":"你看一下，我們的非核家園是不是用健康、環境跟電價去堆疊出來的？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:03.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:04.603000+08:00","text":"部長，你看一下左下角。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:07.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:12.598000+08:00","text":"當然就是我剛剛提到的，以氣替換煤就是往健康方向，空污也減少了，這個效果是明顯……","quality":0.743},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:14.498000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:18.599000+08:00","text":"目前你只有做了一個，就是把煤炭少一點變成天然氣，用這個來說嘴嘛！","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:18.599000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:19.599000+08:00","text":"再生能源也有發展啊！","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:18.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:25.041000+08:00","text":"就像我剛才所說的，第一個、你就是把核電停了之後造成污染跟排碳。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:25.041000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:26.041000+08:00","text":"再生能源也能高到百分之十幾了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:25.401000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:26.521000+08:00","text":"第二個也很嚴重，我現在跟你說。","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:27.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:40.711000+08:00","text":"你看一下這一張，核能在今年6月份歸零之後，火力發電就一直成長，再生能源又沒跟上來，所以趕快把這兩個問題解決，好不好？","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:41.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:43.952000+08:00","text":"繼續看路透社還講了一件事情，就是我接下來要跟你討論的。","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:46.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:53.296000+08:00","text":"在大罷免期間民進黨立委都在講「我那小小多山的國家」，結果路透社說什麼？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:53.296000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:59.538000+08:00","text":"臺灣是多山而且人口稠密的島嶼，不適合建造大規模的再生能源發電廠。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:59.538000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:01.579000+08:00","text":"所以我們的再生能源到底要怎麼做？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:02.959000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:10.110000+08:00","text":"這段期間出現那麼多弊案，特別是光電要好好去……不要山跟海都出現一堆弊案。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:10.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:44.278000+08:00","text":"來，我給你看一個非常聳動而且非常重要的案子，請部長看一下，北門有一個光電的開發案，結果有十幾位黑道，你看他的身體刺龍刺鳳，跑到宮廟去威脅當地的居民說你一定要同意這個開發，隔一天人家就去報案了，檢察官後來都傳去了，很聳動的是什麼？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:44.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:00.471000+08:00","text":"這些人裡面，包括了力暘案，就是臺南開88槍的力暘案其中一個主嫌蔡金郎也在裡面，你看，多麼無法無天、多麼無法無天！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:04.520000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:07.001000+08:00","text":"我今天更生氣的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:08.761000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:31.906000+08:00","text":"民眾求助無門來陳情，我從7月份開始就跟經濟部索資，居民要的訴求只有3個，前面兩個跟你經濟部都有絕對的關係：第一、說明會不通知相關利害人，程序明明是有問題；第二、整個光電的開發面積不斷在增加，壓縮他們的生活空間跟生活品質。","quality":0.878},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:33.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:37.281000+08:00","text":"這兩個都是經濟部能源署管的，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:37.281000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:43.063000+08:00","text":"我從7月份跟你索資到現在，資料為什麼不給我？","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:45.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:54.667000+08:00","text":"居民求救無門，立法委員行使職權要把問題弄清楚，你到現在資料都不給我們，現在民眾都講，你們是什麼？","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:54.667000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:55.308000+08:00","text":"光電黑金的門神嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:57.083000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:59.564000+08:00","text":"你們是共犯嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:59.564000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:00.564000+08:00","text":"沒有這回事。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:59.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:01.124000+08:00","text":"這不是你們該做的事嗎？部長？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:01.124000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:02.845000+08:00","text":"說明一下。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:02.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:13.369000+08:00","text":"為什麼連一個程序有問題了，居民就直接問啊，說明會都不找相關的關係利害人，然後面積為什麼讓它擴大？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:14.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:16.310000+08:00","text":"來，我跟你索資的內容給大家看。是。","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:16.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:35.340000+08:00","text":"你看，我們請全民來看，當一個立法委員接到陳情，民眾那麼可憐，黑道都找上門了，還有88槍擊案的主嫌，我跟你們要資料，這是不是都是你主管的？","quality":0.845},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:36.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:41.022000+08:00","text":"我要釐清到底什麼環節出問題，你為什麼到現在資料不給我？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:42.978000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:43.258000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:43.678000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:52.221000+08:00","text":"我們來說明一下，因為這個是好幾個不同的案件，有的當然已經進入司法程序，剛才委員提到的就是……","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:52.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:55.603000+08:00","text":"你說司法，人家檢察官後來就傳了，包括這個主嫌都被傳去。是。","quality":0.84},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:56.683000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:01.565000+08:00","text":"我們現在談的是行政的問題，包括剛剛講的，他們陳情的部分不都是你管的？","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:01.685000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:18.135000+08:00","text":"來，你看看第二項，你看一下我索資的資料，你看第二項，我要了解土地性質跟使用分區，它的開發用途有沒有變更，你當初為什麼會核准？","quality":0.836},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:18.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:20.536000+08:00","text":"核准的文件在哪裡？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:20.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:23.798000+08:00","text":"第三項，你有沒有相關紀錄，對不對？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:24.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:28.301000+08:00","text":"當初有關說明會跟地方協調會，會議紀錄一定要送到你這邊，對不對？","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:28.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:31.563000+08:00","text":"都出問題了，你連這個東西都不拿出來給大家看。是的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:32.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:33.964000+08:00","text":"第一項談的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:33.964000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:43.619000+08:00","text":"他們說範圍一直在擴大，我請你把所有旁邊到底有沒有擴大的資料給我，你到現在……民眾那麼可憐，你不幫他們？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:43.619000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:44.359000+08:00","text":"連立委跟你要資料……","quality":1},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:48.802000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:11.707000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員的關心，我知道委員長期很關心這些民眾所關心的事情，剛才提到的資料事實上有好幾個案件，有的已經進入司法程序，另外，如果有發生什麼弊案，事實上我們有一個打擊綠能犯罪小組，我們隨時都可以提供到那個小組，回到剛才委員比較關心的資料……","quality":0.766},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:11.927000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:12.188000+08:00","text":"先停一下，你有送嗎？","quality":0.375},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:13.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:13.949000+08:00","text":"你發現……有。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:13.949000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:14.709000+08:00","text":"你有送去？對。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:15.450000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:16.710000+08:00","text":"那這個資料為什麼不能給？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:16.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:21.091000+08:00","text":"司法有司法的程序，我現在跟你要的是行政的資料，你為什麼不給我？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:21.431000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:36.175000+08:00","text":"是，跟委員報告，委員在7月14日有提到有關睿日有一些民眾抗爭的事情，事實上，我們在8月15日有給，委員當時是要我們當時組長主持相關會議的資料，我們有把他主持的16場會議紀錄的資料給委員。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:42.957000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:49.661000+08:00","text":"另外，委員還有要相關的資料，剛才講到這些地籍，這個我們正在整理，我們完成之後……","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:50.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:50.882000+08:00","text":"都已經3個月了，到現在還整理喔？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:51.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:52.703000+08:00","text":"是，因為委員要的資料很細。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:52.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:55.424000+08:00","text":"你3天內可以給我嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:55.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:03.769000+08:00","text":"特別是第一項到第二大項裡面的案場跟他們開會的過程、會議紀錄，這3個在3天內給我。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:06.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:16.609000+08:00","text":"我們先整理，因為委員當時要的資料很多，我們可以先把整理好的就提供給委員，陸續是不是容許我們再來整理？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:16.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:17.810000+08:00","text":"3天內可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:17.810000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:18.810000+08:00","text":"我們可以先把手上的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:17.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:19.850000+08:00","text":"我跟你講，現在地方怎麼傳你啦！是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:21.371000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:28.915000+08:00","text":"經濟部以前的形象是很好的，孫運璿一路……部長，經濟部的形象，現在人家地方說你怎樣？","quality":0.457},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:28.915000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:30.716000+08:00","text":"變成光電黑金的門神了啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:30.716000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:31.716000+08:00","text":"不會啦！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:31.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:38.461000+08:00","text":"委員長期關心，我們很重視委員需要的這些資料，我們會全力來儘速提供。3天內。","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:39.301000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:42.703000+08:00","text":"我們可以先提供我們已經完成的部分，是不是先給委員？","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:42.923000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:53.992000+08:00","text":"因為這個資料蠻多的，我們陸續整理，慢慢完備之後，如果允許我們逐批給委員，這樣子讓委員馬上也可以同步來做……","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:54.192000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:57.503000+08:00","text":"你已經整理了3個月了，你現在手上有的趕快給我，好不好？","quality":0.739},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:57.503000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:58.503000+08:00","text":"因為我們要盤點一些……","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:58.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:59.770000+08:00","text":"最晚什麼時候會完成然後給我？","quality":0.769},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:00.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:02.854000+08:00","text":"我們可能要調閱資料，因為委員要的資料滿多，我們會儘快……","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:03.294000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:08.956000+08:00","text":"最主要是現在居民最在意的是為什麼案場一直在增加，把他們那個地方整個包圍起來？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:08.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:13.157000+08:00","text":"第二個，明明已經陳情了，協調會跟說明會有狀況，這個紀錄都在你手上嘛！","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:13.157000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:15.098000+08:00","text":"還要整理3個月？","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:15.098000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:20.120000+08:00","text":"你本來7月就要有了，你至少把這兩個……這兩個都是現成的，你3天內先送到我這邊來。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:20.120000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:22.721000+08:00","text":"如果要會議資料，我們可以比較早提供。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:22.721000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:23.721000+08:00","text":"可以喔！","quality":0},{"speaker":"李署長君禮","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:23.261000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:27.163000+08:00","text":"有些地目、地號，那個我們要仔細盤點，因為我們怕給的不清楚，有關那個案的會議紀錄……","quality":0.657},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:27.543000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:31.906000+08:00","text":"好，先把那個會議紀錄在3天內先送過來，其他相關的儘快好不好？是。","quality":0.519},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:31.906000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:37.590000+08:00","text":"然後注意一下，部長，你現在是經濟部長，我剛才就強調，經濟部長久以來的形象是好的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:37.590000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:38.650000+08:00","text":"對，是的。","quality":0},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:38.650000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:45.671000+08:00","text":"地方跟你們陳情，新聞已經鬧這麼大，88槍擊案的主嫌檢方都調去問了。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:46.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:49.513000+08:00","text":"只要是違法，我們現在都是送廉政平臺，只要違法，我們就送檢調。對嘛！","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:51.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:55.677000+08:00","text":"一條是司法，一條是你的行政體制，你要去處理啊，人家現在罵就是罵你啊。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"龔部長明鑫","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:55.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:02.022000+08:00","text":"畢竟整個綠能產業違規、違法的部分還是少部分，但是我們一定要把這些違規、違法去除掉。","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:02.022000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:04.864000+08:00","text":"你說少部分，但這個案子就很嚴重，好不好？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:05.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:11.188000+08:00","text":"把經濟部的形象做好，把人民的生活跟他們……他們已經受到很大的影響，好不好？好。","quality":0.939},{"speaker":"張委員啓楷","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:11.248000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:11.668000+08:00","text":"資料趕快給我，好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:14.054000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:14.075000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝張啓楷委員，也謝謝龔部長。","quality":0.357},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:14.575000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:38.003571+08:00","text":"行政部門請一定要加油，因為委員要的資料，大家都理性在討論，剛剛回答說地籍的部分你們還要怎麼樣，這麼久的時間，地籍本來就有地政事務所，你只要申請就會馬上出來，為什麼會拿這個來當理由？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:38.303571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:41.160714+08:00","text":"所以必須要加油，好不好？","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:41.460714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:47.460714+08:00","text":"將委員所需要的相關資料趕快跟委員來說明清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:47.760714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:51.760714+08:00","text":"接下來我們請陳亭妃委員做詢答。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}