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以美論那個樣子去發展所以我們當然是代表台美關係是穩健發展那我們對於就是說這個"},{"start":298.583,"end":323.992,"text":"資訊流啊怎麼樣我們去對這些錯假訊息加以重新分析我們是有發現有一些不正常的地方那是有勢力介入這個裡面涉及到的認知作戰但也不是說每一個這個報導因為有一些是可能誤會比如說像台灣跟加拿大的關係那加拿大駐台代表處就澄清了那至於說有關於愛沙尼亞這個那我們也加以說明確實如委員說我們現在在討論啊"},{"start":326.593,"end":329.136,"text":"那個名稱啊或地位或各種的未來的豁免的這個特權等等部長時間的關係那個說明我們都有看過我們現在是在短期之內都是外銷轉內銷尤其都是外國的媒體不管CNN也好除非CNN是錯假訊息"},{"start":346.853,"end":351.795,"text":"那是他發布的這是美國的事實證明那是錯假信息因為我就是在華府我就在美國啦我不要講華府是在紐約沒關係那個我們有看過你的反駁我現在說的是連續發出這樣子的一個消息不管他是錯假的也好故意打擊也好"},{"start":366.061,"end":394.102,"text":"如果外交部在推展外交事務相關的業務我們內部的剛剛我問的是是部內人員還是特定人士部長顯然沒有回答這個部分因為我們要知道的是有沒有掌握到底是誰在放這樣的消息打擊我們的外交所有的努力有一些是因為我們國內媒體引用外媒那我們有去追蹤這個資訊流就是說這個訊息是怎麼樣那外媒為什麼會暴露出來"},{"start":394.682,"end":420.151,"text":"那就他的來源管道嘛他的來源管道有沒有掌握因為一而再 再而三的打擊我們有適當的掌握對部長也好對外交部也好有適當的掌握可以制止了嗎甚至遊說的團體我們也都有掌握遊說的團體是誰被是我們內部的人員去遊說的嗎或者放這個消息因為會有這樣子的訊息其實很明顯的是我們自己可能相關掌握的內部人員"},{"start":423.192,"end":427.998,"text":"所以這個部分我們在這裡提醒我們也都有在檢視會不會再發生"},{"start":430.202,"end":455.381,"text":"我們要假設他還會再發生我們能夠妥善的來因應所以您只能不斷不斷的反駁去說明那就媒體試圖我們要讓國內外都了解沒關係我們現在要講的是如果這是內部的而且是國內的而且是特定有心的人士在製造我們這樣外交的混亂或者為了藉由打擊外交部或部長"},{"start":456.882,"end":469.997,"text":"這樣子影響我們整個外交的一個推動這是不能接受的所以這個部分外交部不是只有一直反駁你必須要提出來如果這個消息你都已經有掌握要不要公布一下這看哪一件事情啊"},{"start":473.24,"end":481.412,"text":"委員指的是 因為就太多件了三件 要不然你三件都講嘛三件都掌握了嘛 三件都講掌握了是誰你包括遊說團體都掌握了 是誰以CNN來講 因為"},{"start":487.682,"end":494.707,"text":"其實主辦單位都有報我在紐約啊也有照片為什麼他會去引用然後經過一連串的發展變成我們請客沒人出席啊這個完全跟事實顛倒部長我要說的是你剛剛說已經掌握遊說的團體或者放話的人我現在說這個人是誰或這個遊說團體你應該要對外說明"},{"start":511.874,"end":520.988,"text":"就杜益晴啦就是她就有分析這個CNN然後透過國內的媒體的這個所謂的傳播的管道然後怎麼被放大"},{"start":524.161,"end":546.616,"text":"然後最後變成真身殺人這個就是一個個案那我們就開始研究個案做跟國際當然也要去做解釋嘛因為要媒體試讀那有一些可能是是不是不小心去放大還是有些人是刻意去操作我們當然會進一步去把背後的原因找出來所以你覺得是刻意操作放大還是不小心"},{"start":547.711,"end":554.381,"text":"有些是可能意識形態有些是可能這個刻意的都有"},{"start":555.967,"end":579.013,"text":"好模擬兩可喔如果是部長這樣的說法顯然你接下來還是要持續面對外交部也是如果是這樣外交如果受到這麼多的妨礙尤其是內部產生的那我認為其實我們的外交預算有些就被浪費掉了因為你在花錢的當下有很多刻意的阻撓就影響我們預算因為你花大錢"},{"start":579.953,"end":588.036,"text":"結果你的成果是不如預期或者還是被扭曲那我們在預算上面其實我覺得是浪費了尤其我們年年在增加的狀況之下外交部其實這個部分我們要的不是你剛剛大家聽不懂的這樣的說明我們要的是這個到底是為什麼是內鬥我們不能忍受的是內鬥的部分你外面的外在的因素就已經非常多了我簡單再請問一下那個陸委會"},{"start":608.63,"end":634.433,"text":"APEC 明年我們會不會參加是 委員好 明年APEC我們當然爭取參加一定是尋利來參加在維護國家尊嚴什麼樣的狀況會影響如果中方還是要刻意打壓譬如說他們昨天也有放話說要在一中原則的情況下但我們發現說一中原則其實不是我們APEC參加的一個過去的一個慣例所以有可能因為這樣我們就不參加"},{"start":635.676,"end":644.666,"text":"我們現在不能夠去做那個因為你必須要做一些沙灘推研在什麼樣的情況之下因為我們主要為了經濟發展這個當初設立的目的大家可以做很多的一個相關的一個交流那這個部分所以我們現在主要是要了解到明年因為畢竟是大陸主辦"},{"start":658.7,"end":673.937,"text":"那什麼樣的情況我們可以參加然後什麼樣的狀況之下我們可能不參加這個部分時間的關係提供書面資料給本委員會好不好最後再利用一點時間不好意思經貿談判辦公室還有經濟部抱歉跟主席接一點時間"},{"start":680.633,"end":689.696,"text":"委員好我想請教一下因為川普總統其實在整個亞洲行其實他也做了很多的宣示尤其之前也跟韓國都已經初步的一個他們的稅率的框架已經都已經差不多細節的談的差不多"},{"start":700.86,"end":708.808,"text":"那美國跟馬來西亞跟柬埔寨也已經簽訂了協定我想要請教經貿辦還有經濟部對於美國馬來西亞這兩個他們的協定有沒有研究我們在研究分析當中是"},{"start":720.394,"end":747.262,"text":"當中 因為他的關稅表是比較晚才公佈的他協議是先簽 可不可以說明一下現在研究當中大概有哪個部分跟台灣會有比較類似的部分有什麼看法從整體的架構來看那就是大概就是美國跟這些貿易夥伴在談的這些對等關稅協議呢他都分成幾個部分包括了關稅非關稅"},{"start":749.443,"end":751.025,"text":"我們大家都知道啦我們現在講的是對馬來西亞其實他馬來西亞他就是會有全面市場開放以及降為零關稅嘛對美的商品對不對"},{"start":766.665,"end":771.43,"text":"以及接受這個部分你們有掌握嗎其他國家你們都沒有掌握那你怎麼去談判比如說你在談判的時候你的優勢是什麼其他國家跟我們的競爭對手包括日韓包括其他東南亞國家如果你們都沒有辦法掌握他都已經透露出來只有台灣到現在還是黑箱"},{"start":785.725,"end":788.746,"text":"那你既然是黑箱你至少必須掌握其他國家他們在對美談判的過程當中他們有什麼樣的優劣勢這樣你去談的時候你才知道怎麼跟美國談啊是 像委員報告我們都有在關注美國跟各個國家關稅談判的情況包括您剛剛提到的馬來西亞或是柬埔寨然後我們也有關注到美國還有跟一些國家其實也都還在談判當中其實還沒有完成"},{"start":811.075,"end":816.478,"text":"他們已經簽協定了我現在講的是馬來西亞他全面市場開放以及降為零關稅然後接受美國的標準不管是汽車或者農產品的檢驗因為農產品對我們台灣來說其實是影響非常深遠尤其是他的檢驗標準不管是他的來租的這全面開放或者開放到什麼程度應該要接受什麼樣的檢驗如果我們全面開放的話對我們會有什麼影響這個有沒有掌握"},{"start":840.572,"end":856.42,"text":"我們台灣跟馬來西亞會有一樣嗎我們都有在掌握美國跟相關國家的談判的情況還有他們簽署的協議內容所以台灣呢現在已經五輪談判了我剛剛提到了馬來西亞的狀況台灣會不會一樣"},{"start":860.236,"end":867.999,"text":"有關於台美談判的這個進展的話就是我們目前在說的內容就是我們在爭取這個調降對等關稅然後及不疊加還有就是232的這個優惠待遇農產品檢驗講這個就好農產品檢驗"},{"start":877.102,"end":883.066,"text":"有關於台美談判的這個實際內容依照美國的標準嗎因為還在談判的進行當中所以這個就是鄭麗君副院長之前反福茂反黑箱他是非常大力的反對今天我們提到五輪了而且其他國家陸續都已經簽了詳細的就是他的協定到現在我們還沒有辦法對國人說"},{"start":904.321,"end":914.425,"text":"至少像農產品的影響或者像一些會造成的影響傳產我們現在每天新聞看到一家一家的倒到現在你們還沒有辦法講這個部分我覺得真的是台灣非常的悲哀這個部分還有經濟部也是在這裡美國對韓國半導體的稅率保證不會高於台灣對不對"},{"start":930.121,"end":947.818,"text":"跟委員報告 其實現在我們根據白宮發布的事實文件並沒有就半導體的部分有做披露所以現在呢 美韓之間還在就現在這是正式的嘛 美韓 美國已經很明確的表達他的稅率 半導體的稅率不會高於台灣 對不對"},{"start":951.081,"end":970.213,"text":"那他們已經有詳細的結果大概詳細的內容已經有初步的結果了嗎我們有在媒體上面有看到這樣報導但是我們有去查驗這個白宮發布的事實文件上面並沒有就這一點有具體的文字的說明他沒有說多少而已嘛他只說不會高於台灣這個訊息對不對"},{"start":972.594,"end":1000.704,"text":"這個是韓方的媒體的報導但是在根據白宮發布的新聞並沒有韓方敢這樣講表示跟美國有一個初步的一個方案的結論嘛韓方才會這樣講不然美國沒講韓國怎麼敢自己講所以兩邊現在的話還在有各自在我現在要講的是我們的黑箱一直在持續今天如果美國跟韓國他們已經達到初步的協定"},{"start":1001.724,"end":1015.939,"text":"他們說不會高於台灣可見台灣的稅率早就已經有一個定案了只是一直還沒有確定所以當我們付出這麼多然後我們的談判還在持續的時候我們談判還在持續我們希望看看別的國家怎麼談的一定要把我們的優勢"},{"start":1022.345,"end":1039.833,"text":"到現在還看不出來我們已經付出太多犧牲太多我們到現在還不知道任何一個結果包括農產品你們都講不出來這個部分我們希望還是有一個比較具體的一個方向說明也可以提供書面資料可以已經到目前有結論的好不好謝謝不好意思"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:50:57.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:50:57.351000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:50:57.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:51:00.836000+08:00","text":"麻煩請外交部林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T09:51:00.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:51:01.397000+08:00","text":"有請林部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:51:01.397000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:51:05.002000+08:00","text":"還有陸委會副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:51:09.768000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:51:09.928000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:51:11.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:51:11.743000+08:00","text":"部長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:51:13.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:51:30.795000+08:00","text":"部長，就我們現在外交進行的方式，我們最近看到好像不斷有人在暴露我們外交部拓展對外關係的困境，顯然好像有意為之。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:51:33.557000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:52:03.297000+08:00","text":"近日日本媒體報導，愛沙尼亞雖然在2023年對外宣布接受臺灣在該國首都塔林設立代表處，可是至今已經快兩年了，日本媒體報導，這陷入了僵局，原因在於名稱的爭議，因為我方希望沿用駐立陶宛的命名模式，稱之為「駐愛沙尼亞臺灣代表處」，可是愛沙尼亞堅持要用「臺北」這個名稱。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:52:04.398000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:52:12.003000+08:00","text":"愛沙尼亞政府在日媒查詢以後也表達，截至目前為止，我們尚未收到任何開設辦事處的申請。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:52:12.003000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:52:14.925000+08:00","text":"就這個部分，部長有沒有什麼樣的說明？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:52:17.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:52:18.064000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:52:18.064000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:52:41.177000+08:00","text":"愛沙尼亞是在今年大概4月的時候國會通過賦予法源，所以有關於設處，事實上半年前我們雙邊就展開諮商，目前是由拉脫維亞轄管，至於我們附設辦事處的地位、名稱以及它的……","quality":0.847},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:52:41.177000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:52:42.177000+08:00","text":"確定了嗎？","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:52:41.638000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:52:53.246000+08:00","text":"現在在諮商當中，所以有開始，但不是兩年，兩年是他們表達有這個意願的時間，那是在政府方面，但是仍要經過國會的通過才有法源的基礎。","quality":0.825},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:52:53.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:53:22.210000+08:00","text":"國會的部分也超過半年了，如果已經快兩年的時間，且我們現在不是只在乎時間，而是我們要在外國設立代表處，尤其是在沒有正式外交關係的國家，為了維繫非正式關係、推動貿易投資、促進文化交流以及提供領事服務，這是我們主要的目的跟目標。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:53:22.570000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:53:34.796000+08:00","text":"就這個部分，尤其部長上任一年多來，一直以踏實外交，希望跟理念相近國家或者可以合作的友邦促進互惠共榮，深化夥伴關係，來達到我們經濟日不落國這樣的願景。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:53:40.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:53:49.647000+08:00","text":"可是近期看到我們的外交應該算是一個亂象，有很多的……","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:53:49.647000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:53:50.647000+08:00","text":"不會啦，我們拓展了很多外交的空間。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:53:49.727000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:53:51.848000+08:00","text":"我所謂的亂象……部長，你聽我講完，拓展空間是外交部本來就已經在推動的相關業務，過去到現在都是一樣。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:53:51.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:54:13.098000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到愛沙尼亞設立代表處這個部分，顯然是有人發布了新聞，而且是日媒去發表的。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:54:14.559000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:54:21.947000+08:00","text":"還有在不久之前，政府跟加拿大已經達成貿易協議，卻敲定數個月後仍沒有辦法簽署。","quality":0.914},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:54:22.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:54:46.002000+08:00","text":"還有日前傳出外交部在美國紐約高檔餐廳設宴，邀請高層官員出席，卻沒有一個人到場，這個雖然我們有提出一些說明及澄清，可是這顯然都是有人在餵消息或者不斷地刻意披露，所以外交部是不是有查察……","quality":0.741},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:54:46.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:54:47.803000+08:00","text":"對，可能有認知作戰的成分。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:54:49.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:08.229000+08:00","text":"這個部分是認知作戰，我想要請教部長，這個知情人士是部內人員，還是特定的人在放消息，藉此打擊外交部跟部長，或者真的像媒體評論的，可能是川普總統跟習近平在韓國舉行川習會後，美國政府對賴總統所率領行政團隊的態度已經改變。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:08.229000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:08.690000+08:00","text":"以上種種因素，部長判斷是哪一個？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:18.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:21.104000+08:00","text":"我們當然判斷是……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:21.104000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:22.104000+08:00","text":"剛剛你說是認知作戰嘛！","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:21.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:30.774000+08:00","text":"有一波認知作戰，每個case的情形不太一樣，基本上要去……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:31.214000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:33.837000+08:00","text":"也有可能是我們國內自己製造的認知作戰嗎？","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:34.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:40.999000+08:00","text":"應該說比較新的發展是透過外媒，然後到國內放大，當然有錯誤，我們就澄清。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:41.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:55:50.762000+08:00","text":"因為以我們關心的所謂臺美關係，並沒有如棄臺論、疑美論那樣在發展，所以代表臺美關係是穩健發展。","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:55:51.862000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:07.368000+08:00","text":"至於這個資訊流我們怎麼樣對這些錯假訊息重新加以分析，的確發現有一些不正常的地方，是有勢力介入，這裡面涉及到認知作戰。","quality":0.87},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:07.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:19.492000+08:00","text":"但也不是每一個報導都如此，有些可能是誤會，比如臺灣跟加拿大的關係，加拿大駐臺代表處就澄清了；至於有關愛沙尼亞這個部分，我們也加以說明。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:19.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:23.334000+08:00","text":"確實如委員所說的，我們現在在討論名稱、地位或未來各種豁免的特權等等，是以開放的態度在談。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:23.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:44.334000+08:00","text":"你的說明我們都有看過，現在短期之內都是外銷轉內銷，尤其都是外國的媒體，不管CNN也好，除非CNN發布的是錯假訊息，那是他發布的，這是美國的。","quality":0.921},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:44.474000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:45.294000+08:00","text":"事實證明那是錯假訊息。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:45.294000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:46.294000+08:00","text":"另外……沒關係，你們就是做了反駁。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:45.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:46.275000+08:00","text":"因為我就是在美國紐約，外界都有照片。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:46.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:56:46.635000+08:00","text":"部長，沒關係，我們有看過你的反駁。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:56:46.635000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:14.070000+08:00","text":"我現在說的是，連續發出這樣的消息，不管它是錯假也好、故意打擊也好，如果外交部在推展外交事務相關業務……剛剛我問是部內人員還是特定人士，部長顯然沒有回答這個部分。","quality":0.986},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:14.530000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:21.095000+08:00","text":"我們要知道的是，有沒有掌握到底是誰在放這樣的消息，打擊我們外交所有的努力？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:21.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:28.440000+08:00","text":"有一些是因為國內媒體引用外媒，我們有追蹤這個資訊流，就是這個訊息是怎麼樣……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:28.561000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:30.102000+08:00","text":"外媒為什麼會暴露出來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:30.682000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:33.463000+08:00","text":"那就是他的來源管道。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:33.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:34.023000+08:00","text":"有沒有掌握他的來源管道？","quality":0.455},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:34.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:36.004000+08:00","text":"因為一而再、再而三的打擊。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:36.004000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:37.104000+08:00","text":"我們有適當的掌握。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:37.184000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:40.986000+08:00","text":"對部長也好、對外交部也好，既然有適當的掌握，可以制止了嗎？","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:40.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:42.946000+08:00","text":"甚至遊說的團體，我們也都有掌握。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:45.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:57:49.869000+08:00","text":"是我們內部的人員去遊說或者放這個消息的嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:57:50.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:00.814000+08:00","text":"因為會有這樣的訊息，很明顯的可能是我們自己相關有掌握的內部人員，所以這個部分我們在這裡提醒，如果……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:01.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:03.838000+08:00","text":"我們也都有在檢視。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:03.838000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:03.978000+08:00","text":"會不會再發生？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:06.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:09.825000+08:00","text":"我們要假設它還會再發生，而我們能夠妥善地來因應。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:09.825000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:12.167000+08:00","text":"所以您只能不斷地反駁、說明？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:13.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:16.110000+08:00","text":"就媒體識讀，我們也要讓國內外都了解。","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:16.390000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:17.010000+08:00","text":"部長，沒關係。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:17.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:42.754000+08:00","text":"我現在要講的是，如果這是內部的，而且是國內的，而且是特定有心的人士，在製造這樣外交的混亂，或者藉由打擊外交部或部長，影響我們整個外交的推動，這是不能接受的，所以這個部分外交部不是只有一直反駁，而是必須要提出來。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:42.754000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:45.737000+08:00","text":"如果這個消息，你都已經有掌握，要不要公布一下？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:45.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:49.801000+08:00","text":"看哪一件事情，委員指的是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:50.201000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:51.784000+08:00","text":"因為這有太多件了。三件。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:51.784000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:52.784000+08:00","text":"比如以CNN這個例子……","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:52.645000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:55.950000+08:00","text":"不然你三件都講，既然三件都掌握了，就三件都講。","quality":0.85},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:55.950000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:56.130000+08:00","text":"既然掌握了，那是誰？","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:56.150000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:58:57.152000+08:00","text":"包括遊說團體你都掌握了，是誰？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:58:57.152000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:08.065000+08:00","text":"以CNN來講，其實主辦單位都有報導我在紐約，尤其是有照片，為什麼他會去引用？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:08.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:09.326000+08:00","text":"然後經過一連串的發展，變成我們請客沒人出席，這個完全跟事實顛倒。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:09.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:10.687000+08:00","text":"部長，我要問的是，你剛剛說已經掌握遊說的團體或者放話的人，而這個人或遊說團體是誰，你應該要對外說明、直接講。","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:28.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:41.982000+08:00","text":"我跟委員舉個例子，杜奕瑾就有分析，先是CNN，再透過國內媒體的傳播管道，進而被放大，然後最後變成曾參殺人。","quality":0.638},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:43.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:43.803000+08:00","text":"這就是一個個案……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:43.803000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:44.803000+08:00","text":"我現在要說的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:44.364000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T09:59:59.614000+08:00","text":"我們就開始研究個案，當然也要跟國際解釋，因為要媒體識讀，有一些是不是不小心去放大，還是有心人刻意操作，我們會進一步把背後的原因找出來。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T09:59:59.614000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:02.596000+08:00","text":"所以你覺得是刻意操作放大，還是不小心？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林部長佳龍","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:03.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:10.361000+08:00","text":"有些可能是意識型態，有些可能是刻意的，都有。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:11.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:12.667000+08:00","text":"好模稜兩可！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:13.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:17.989000+08:00","text":"如果部長是這樣的說法，顯然接下來你還是要持續面對，外交部也是。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:18.209000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:33.933000+08:00","text":"如果是這樣，外交受到這麼多妨礙，尤其是內部產生的，我認為我們的外交預算有些就被浪費掉了，因為你在花錢的當下，有很多刻意的阻撓就會影響我們的預算。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:34.173000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:41.275000+08:00","text":"因為你花大錢，結果成果不如預期或者還被扭曲，我覺得是浪費了預算，尤其在年年增加的狀況之下。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:41.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:42.915000+08:00","text":"有關這個部分，我們要的不是你剛剛讓大家聽不懂的說明，我們要的是了解這個到底是為什麼。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:42.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:00:43.716000+08:00","text":"我們不能忍受的是內鬥，因為外在的因素就已經非常多了。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:00:43.736000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:07.893000+08:00","text":"我簡單再請問一下陸委會，明年APEC我們會不會參加？","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:09.114000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:09.314000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:09.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:14.980000+08:00","text":"明年APEC我們當然爭取參加，一定是循例來參加，在維護國家尊嚴……","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:14.980000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:18.082000+08:00","text":"什麼樣的狀況會影響？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:18.082000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:27.751000+08:00","text":"如果中方還是要刻意打壓，譬如他們昨天也有放話說要在一中原則的情況下，但我們發現一中原則其實不是我們過去參加APEC的慣例。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:28.372000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:30.413000+08:00","text":"所以有可能因為這樣，我們就不參加？","quality":1},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:31.676000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:34.459000+08:00","text":"我們現在不能夠去做那個……","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:34.459000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:37.963000+08:00","text":"沒有，因為你必須要做一些沙盤推演，在什麼樣的情況之下……","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:37.963000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:38.963000+08:00","text":"對，我們有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:38.043000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:39.284000+08:00","text":"因為我們主要是為了經濟發展，當初設立的目的是讓大家可以做很多相關的交流。","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:01:39.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:01:59.926000+08:00","text":"我現在主要是要了解，畢竟明年是大陸主辦，什麼樣的狀況之下，我們可以參加；什麼樣的狀況之下，我們可能不參加。","quality":0.894},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:00.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:04.431000+08:00","text":"這個部分因為時間關係，請提供書面資料給本委員會，好不好？","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"沈副主任委員有忠","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:04.431000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:05.431000+08:00","text":"好，沒問題。","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:04.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:09.056000+08:00","text":"最後再利用一點時間，請經貿談判辦公室還有經濟部。抱歉！","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:09.697000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:09.937000+08:00","text":"跟主席借一點時間。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:16.633000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:16.893000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:18.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:43.767000+08:00","text":"我想請教一下，因為川普總統在整個亞洲行做了很多宣示，尤其之前跟韓國都已經把初步的稅率框架談得差不多，細節也談得差不多，而美國跟馬來西亞、柬埔寨也已經簽訂了協定，我想要請教經貿辦還有經濟部，對於美國、馬來西亞的協定有沒有研究？","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:43.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:02:56.394000+08:00","text":"我們在研究分析當中。當中？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:02:57.354000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:02.176000+08:00","text":"對，因為他的關稅表是比較晚才公布的，協議則是先簽。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:02.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:08.018000+08:00","text":"可不可以說明一下，現在研究當中，大概有哪一個部分跟臺灣會比較類似？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:09.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:09.838000+08:00","text":"有什麼看法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:11.019000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:23.262000+08:00","text":"從整體的架構來看，大概就是美國跟這些貿易夥伴在談的對等關稅協議都分成幾個部分，包括了關稅、非關稅，然後數位貿易……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:25.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:26.184000+08:00","text":"那個大家都知道，我現在講的是對馬來西亞……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:26.184000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:27.184000+08:00","text":"這個架構都一致的……","quality":0},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:26.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:27.025000+08:00","text":"馬來西亞對美的商品就是會全面市場開放以及降為零關稅，對不對？","quality":0.821},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:42.665000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:44.587000+08:00","text":"以及接受……這個部分，你們有掌握嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:44.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:44.908000+08:00","text":"其他國家你們都沒有掌握，怎麼去談判？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:44.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:45.648000+08:00","text":"你在談判的時候，你的優勢是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:03:45.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:03:47.410000+08:00","text":"其他國家跟我們的競爭對手，包括日、韓及東南亞國家，如果你們都沒有辦法掌握……他都已經透露出來了，只有臺灣到現在還是黑箱。","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:01.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:02.905000+08:00","text":"既然是黑箱，至少必須掌握其他國家在對美談判的過程當中，有什麼樣的優劣勢，這樣你去談的時候，才知道怎麼跟美國談。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:03.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:04.726000+08:00","text":"我們都有在關注美國跟各個國家關稅談判的情況，包括您剛剛提到的馬來西亞或是柬埔寨，我們也關注到美國跟一些國家其實也都還在談判當中，並沒有完成。","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:27.075000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:27.515000+08:00","text":"他們已經簽協定了！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:27.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:29.316000+08:00","text":"我現在講的是馬來西亞全面市場開放以及降為零關稅，然後接受美國的標準，不管是汽車或者農產品的檢驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:29.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:31.658000+08:00","text":"因為農產品對臺灣來說，其實影響非常深遠，尤其是檢驗標準，不管是萊豬的全面開放或者開放到什麼程度、應該要接受什麼樣的檢驗。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:31.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:04:32.458000+08:00","text":"如果我們全面開放，對我們會有什麼影響，這個有沒有掌握？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:04:56.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:00.174000+08:00","text":"臺灣跟馬來西亞會一樣嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:00.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:07.417000+08:00","text":"我們都有在掌握美國跟相關國家的談判情況，還有他們簽署的協議內容。","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:08.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:09.198000+08:00","text":"所以臺灣呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:10.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:12.420000+08:00","text":"現在已經五輪談判了，我剛剛提到了馬來西亞的狀況，臺灣會不會一樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:16.236000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:23.739000+08:00","text":"有關於臺美談判的進展，我們目前在說的內容就是我們在爭取調降對等關稅以及不疊加，還有232的優惠待遇。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:23.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:23.779000+08:00","text":"農產品檢驗呢？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:23.779000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:23.999000+08:00","text":"講這個就好，農產品檢驗。","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:33.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:34.303000+08:00","text":"有關於臺美談判的實際內容，因為還在……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:34.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:34.723000+08:00","text":"依照美國的標準嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"徐資深談判代表兼執行秘書崇欽","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:34.723000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:05:35.964000+08:00","text":"因為談判還在進行當中，所以我們要等談判的……","quality":0.526},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:05:36.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:09.004000+08:00","text":"鄭麗君副院長之前反服貿、反黑箱，他是非常大力的反對，今天我們談判五輪了，而且其他國家陸續都已經簽了協定，到現在我們還沒有辦法對國人說，至少像對農產品的影響，或者像對一些產業會造成的影響，我們現在每天從新聞看到傳產一家一家倒，到現在你們還沒有辦法講這個部分，我覺得臺灣真的是非常的悲哀。","quality":0.901},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:09.125000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:10.425000+08:00","text":"還有經濟部也是，美國對韓國半導體的稅率保證不會高於臺灣，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:26.121000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:36.932000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，其實現在根據白宮發布的事實文件，並沒有就半導體的部分有做披露，所以現在美韓之間還在就這個部分……","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:37.572000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:38.333000+08:00","text":"這是正式的嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:38.653000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:43.818000+08:00","text":"美國已經很明確表達，韓國半導體的稅率不會高於臺灣，對不對？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:47.242000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:06:52.325000+08:00","text":"他們詳細的內容已經有初步的結果了嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-11-05T10:06:52.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:02.591000+08:00","text":"我們有在媒體上面看到這樣的報導，但是我們有去查驗白宮發布的事實文件，上面並沒有就這一點有具體的文字說明，所以……","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:02.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:04.152000+08:00","text":"他沒有說多少而已！","quality":1},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:04.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:06.213000+08:00","text":"他只說不會高於臺灣，這個訊息對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:08.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:14.496000+08:00","text":"這個是韓方的媒體的報導，但是根據白宮發布的新聞，並沒有這樣講。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:14.876000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:25.300000+08:00","text":"韓方敢這樣講，表示跟美國有一個初步的方案、結論，韓方才會這樣講，不然美國沒講，韓國怎麼敢自己講？","quality":1},{"speaker":"江次長文若","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:25.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:28.661000+08:00","text":"所以兩邊現在還是有各自在表達……","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:28.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:07:59.506000+08:00","text":"我現在要講的是，我們的黑箱一直在持續，今天如果美國跟韓國他們已經達到初步的協定，他們說不會高於臺灣，可見臺灣的稅率早就已經有一個定案了，只是一直還沒有確定，所以當我們付出這麼多，然後我們的談判還在持續的時候，我們希望看看別的國家怎麼談的，一定要把我們的優勢……到現在還看不出來啦！","quality":0.992},{"speaker":"馬委員文君","start":"2025-11-05T10:07:59.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-05T10:08:15.352000+08:00","text":"我們已經付出太多、犧牲太多，我們到現在還不知道任何一個結果，包括農產品你們都講不出來，這個部分我們希望還是有一個比較具體的方向、說明，也可以提供書面資料，就是到目前已經有結論的部分，謝謝。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T10:08:15.852000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:08:18.137714+08:00","text":"謝謝馬委員的質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-05T10:08:18.437714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-05T10:08:22.152000+08:00","text":"下面質詢的委員是王定宇委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}