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院長 我先跟你再繼續探討下去喔因為我 就是說因為中研院擁有跟收錄這個全台灣最豐富的這個學術研究資源所以也是國內最高的研究單位所以我想歷年來建置很多很多的資料庫也很努力"},{"start":153.906,"end":172.325,"text":"就像剛剛院長說很努力在致力於資料的開放那要開放供大眾研究的同時我覺得就是應該要將各項珍貴的資料來可以提供給台灣主權AI的資料庫所以如果能解決著作權"},{"start":173.166,"end":194.139,"text":"跟智慧財產的問題那將這個豐富的資料文本可以上傳到台灣主權AI的語言資料庫我想勢必對這個這個主權AI的訓練一定有很大的幫忙所以請教院長中研院擁有這些文本的資料後續"},{"start":195.56,"end":216.851,"text":"怎麼樣盡可能盡可能來上架到台灣主權AI的訓練語言資料庫特別是發音人的口語資料的問題有沒有辦法進一步來開放提供訓練台灣主權AI來使用因為要上傳所有的文本資料來提供台灣主權AI的使用"},{"start":217.811,"end":232.282,"text":"是有沒有辦法跟原作的這個授權來脫鉤啦這個可能要來努力解決這個侵權的疑慮好委員好 我是制裁處處長邱文聰"},{"start":232.742,"end":251.194,"text":"那針對委員的詢問如果說著作權是歸屬本院的部分的話我們願意沒有條件的來提供只要他目的是做訓練的話沒有問題但是委員提到如果他的來源的授權是受到限制也就是說權力不在本院不在眾院的話"},{"start":251.974,"end":276.753,"text":"那要去突破可能就必须透过立法的方式或者是在个案上面法院去判定它是否构成合理使用那个人认为说这样子的途径其实是对于训练主权来讲确实是比较不足的但是要突破的话可能还是需要大院透过立法的方式比如说透过强制授权或者像是日本"},{"start":277.353,"end":299.123,"text":"他们在助纣权法上面直接用立法的方式去明定为了这种训练的目的那这样的使用是属于合理使用才能够去解套不然的话我们自行在后端在未经权利人的同意下拿来做训练使用的话仍然是有可能会构成是一个违法的重置甚至违法的利用以上谢谢"},{"start":300.263,"end":327.181,"text":"那另外先前中研院有提过就是说我们目前中研院自己的资料库虽然大部分有开放给民众使用可是还没有做到文字化的阶段那中研院之前是说人文组的运用人工智慧解锁历史文献这个计划已经审核通过了那我们正积极在推动最新的AI技术来加速这个资料的数位文字化"},{"start":331.463,"end":354.991,"text":"訓練 所以想要請教院長的是這項計畫的工作進度如何那歷史文獻全文數位化的這個成果會上架到台灣主權AI的資料庫嗎那像是清嶺時代或者日治時代的一些文獻那應該早就沒有這個版權的問題那這些可以上架到台灣主權AI語言資料庫嗎"},{"start":357.507,"end":376.91,"text":"這個部分 現在這位委員所秀 我是資訊所廖鴻元所長這個計畫就是我們連玲玲副所長她的計畫下面有四個我們綜藝院院長特別交代的專案計畫她有四個 目前有四個紙計畫在做"},{"start":377.29,"end":393.798,"text":"那最主要像地籍古時候日治時代的那種地籍圖它需要經過因為它的字是用手寫的然後有很多蓋章所以我們需要經過影像處理一些處理然後再把它變成數位化那在這個狀況之下我們現在還在"},{"start":396.679,"end":415.391,"text":"今年是第二年它的速度就增快非常多一开始的时候技术不足但是现在已经变得非常有技术所以这个部分在进行中然后我想这个部分呢至于它的那个因为它时代已经久远应该没有所谓的版权的问题是是是所以应该是可以纳入而且进行的相当好"},{"start":415.931,"end":430.135,"text":"然后另外的还有台思索他们也有一个计划也是在做这是我们院长极力在推的这个怎么样把我们的这些文本资料有关于历史的文本资料能够把它数位化然后把它处理"},{"start":430.663,"end":453.186,"text":"好謝謝那我再簡單再追問一個問題就是說中研院有個數位文化中心那大約有131個資料庫跟工具平台還有主題網站這些數位化的成果可是有些網站已經失效那需要轉置也需要這個重新檢視那資料那現在資料庫的數量有"},{"start":453.806,"end":481.806,"text":"就現在需要重新檢視的資料庫有107個那看起來有做盤點下架那不過本席是發現還有少數的網站是失效的那另外本席之前也有說過就是說關鍵字的這個搜尋功能目前只能針對個別的網站來提供簡短的說明內容做搜尋那沒有辦法跨資料庫的檢索那這部分似乎好像還沒有改善"},{"start":482.566,"end":510.208,"text":"整體來說就是說雖然中研院有數位典藏平台當作入口的網站可是匯整大部分的這個數位資源跟成果的網站跟實際操作起來還是難以實現跨資料庫的這個解鎖那使用者還是要就是要進到不同的網站然後反覆輸入關鍵字那以上本席所提到的中研院在改善經濟上覺得還有哪些的挑戰院長"},{"start":512.053,"end":539.606,"text":"我想这方面网页失联部分我们会请数位文化中心可以改进好委员好上次委员提醒之后我们其实是在院长指示之下我们做各所的一个统整当然因为我们过去承接了过去国家数位典藏计划里面的一些资料所以包括了一些不只应该算100多个网站其实有300多个网站正在维运当中尤其有很多因为系统的部分也停摆了"},{"start":540.046,"end":557.206,"text":"那这就是过去国家气候检查人员留下来的资产我们也希望能够火化现在我们注像是兵分两路一个是我们众议院既有的各个所他们所维运的系统是不是能透过您所提到的这种跨国户检索来进行那这东西涉及到整个网络架构的问题我们还在盘点之中"},{"start":557.867,"end":585.212,"text":"另外一个就是国家数位典藏留下来这个300多个网页我们进行维聚当然也涉及到一个资安的问题那我们现在希望能够这东西提供一个联合目录的重新的整形和再并那这个情节上就会使得我们大家同仁在使用所谓过去国安建制的这些资料的时候能够继续使用和活化所以谢谢委员指导我们会进一步能够提供您的了解好 再努力再加油好 谢谢院长谢谢主席"},{"start":587.066,"end":590.495,"text":"謝謝林益菁委員請院長回座"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:58.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:02.102000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，有請廖院長。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:02.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:05.745000+08:00","text":"請廖院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:05.745000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:05.885000+08:00","text":"林委員早。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:07.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:07.538000+08:00","text":"院長早。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:08.358000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:28.845000+08:00","text":"首先本席想跟院長討論一下主權AI，現在數發部正在推動臺灣的主權AI，各部會也要盤點適合的資料上架到臺灣的AI訓練語言資料庫，後續會開放民間跟政府機關來申請使用。","quality":0.987},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:29.905000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:43.233000+08:00","text":"數發部林部長說，AI模型的訓練需要大量的資料，希望政府跟民間把擁有著作權的資料釋放出來，以訓練出臺灣觀點的AI模型。","quality":0.981},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:44.133000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:30:45.106000+08:00","text":"先前我有初步跟中研院詢問上架相關資料到臺灣主權AI訓練語言資料庫的情形，你們的回復是，中研院目前已經有古漢語、近代漢語跟閩客語、當代華語的語料庫，除了古漢語的文獻資料已經沒有著作財產權，其他多數的文獻都需要一一去確認著作權跟智慧財產權；當代出版的報章雜誌跟兒童讀物，也要經過確認原始的著作權跟智慧財產權，才可以考慮上架臺灣的AI語言資料庫；而口語的語料，因為當初跟發音人簽授權的範圍只限於學術研究，所以這個部分就沒有辦法開放上架AI語言資料庫。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:30:45.106000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:30:45.867000+08:00","text":"院長，我理解這樣對嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:30:48.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:31:07.725000+08:00","text":"大致正確，但是目前至少我個人是鼓勵所有的研究人員，在法規許可的範圍內，儘量開放這些語料供我們的主權AI訓練，我們有各種不同的方式，我們有一堆專家在後面，我請他們解釋。","quality":0.618},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:31:08.586000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:31:11.369000+08:00","text":"沒關係，院長，我先跟你再繼續探討下去喔！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:31:16.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:31:33.650000+08:00","text":"中研院擁有且收錄全臺灣最豐富的學術研究資源，也是國內最高研究單位，歷年來也很努力建置很多很多資料庫，就像剛剛院長說的，很努力致力於資料的開放。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:31:35.592000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:03.215000+08:00","text":"在開放供大眾研究的同時，我覺得應該要將各項珍貴資料提供給臺灣主權AI資料庫，所以如果能解決著作權跟智慧財產權的問題，將豐富的資料文本上傳臺灣主權AI的語言資料庫，我想勢必對主權AI的訓練有莫大的幫助。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:06.317000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:26.608000+08:00","text":"請教院長，中研院擁有這些文本資料，後續怎麼樣儘可能上架到臺灣主權AI訓練的語言資料庫，特別是發音人的口語資料的問題，有沒有辦法進一步來開放提供給臺灣主權AI訓練使用？","quality":0.936},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:27.688000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:39.075000+08:00","text":"上傳文本資料提供臺灣主權AI訓練使用有沒有辦法跟原作的授權條件脫鉤？","quality":0.879},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:40.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:45.680000+08:00","text":"這個可能要努力來解決侵權的疑慮……","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:45.680000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:46.680000+08:00","text":"我請智財處長回復。好。","quality":0.111},{"speaker":"邱處長文聰","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:46.460000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:48.282000+08:00","text":"委員好，我是智財處處長邱文聰。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"邱處長文聰","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:49.623000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:00.149000+08:00","text":"針對委員的詢問，如果著作權歸屬本院的話，我們願意無條件提供，只要它的目的是做訓練的話沒有問題。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"邱處長文聰","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:00.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:15.760000+08:00","text":"但是委員提到，如果它來源的授權受到限制，也就是說權利不在本院（中研院），那要去突破可能就必須透過立法的方式，或者是在個案上面法院去判定是否構成合理使用。","quality":0.884},{"speaker":"邱處長文聰","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:16.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:24.106000+08:00","text":"個人認為這樣的途徑對於訓練主權AI來講確實是比較不足的，但是……當然。","quality":0.355},{"speaker":"邱處長文聰","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:24.607000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:54.342000+08:00","text":"要突破的話，可能還是需要大院透過立法的方式，比如說透過強制授權，或者像日本，他們在著作權法上面直接用立法方式去明定，為了訓練的目的去使用屬於合理使用，如此才能夠解套，不然，我們後端在未經權利人同意下自行拿來作為訓練使用，仍然有可能會構成違法重製甚至是違法利用。以上。","quality":0.697},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:54.342000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:56.463000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:56.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:07.631000+08:00","text":"另外，先前中研院有提過，目前中研院自己的資料庫雖然大部分有開放給民眾使用，可是還沒有做到文字化的階段。","quality":0.787},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:34:08.471000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:16.036000+08:00","text":"中研院之前說人文組的「運用人工智慧解鎖歷史文獻」這個計畫已經審核通過……是。","quality":0.576},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:34:17.217000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:27.463000+08:00","text":"我們正積極推動最新的AI技術來加速資料的數位文字化以及大型語言的模型訓練。","quality":0.528},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:34:27.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:30.764000+08:00","text":"想要請教院長的是，這項計畫的工作進度如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:34:31.845000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:39.407000+08:00","text":"歷史文獻全文數位化的成果，會上架到臺灣主權AI的資料庫嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:34:39.547000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:50.991000+08:00","text":"像清領時代或者日治時代的文獻，應該早就沒有版權的問題，這些可以上架到臺灣主權AI的語言資料庫嗎？","quality":0.956},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2025-11-13T11:34:53.507000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:55.850000+08:00","text":"這個部分，委員所秀的……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:34:55.850000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:56.850000+08:00","text":"這個計畫。","quality":0},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2025-11-13T11:34:56.050000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:35:00.215000+08:00","text":"我是資訊所廖弘源所長。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2025-11-13T11:35:00.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:35:26.276000+08:00","text":"這個計畫就是我們連玲玲副所長的計畫，下面有4個我們中研院院長特別交代的專案計畫，目前有4個子計畫在做，最主要像地籍，古時候、日治時代的那種地籍圖，因為它的字是用手寫的，然後有很多蓋章，所以我們需要經過影像處理、一些處理……掃描。","quality":0.95},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2025-11-13T11:35:26.717000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:35:47.328000+08:00","text":"對、對，然後再把它變成數位化，在這個狀況之下，今年是第二年，它的速度就增快非常多，一開始的時候技術不足，但是現在已經變得非常有技術，所以這個部分在進行中，我想這個部分因為時代已經久遠，應該沒有所謂的版權問題。","quality":0.731},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:35:48.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:35:48.609000+08:00","text":"是、是、是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2025-11-13T11:35:48.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:35:51.371000+08:00","text":"所以應該是可以納入，而且進行得相當好。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"廖所長弘源","start":"2025-11-13T11:35:52.392000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:36:06.114000+08:00","text":"另外，臺史所他們也有一個計畫在做，這是我們院長極力在推的，就是怎麼樣把我們這些有關於歷史的文本資料數位化，然後把它處理。","quality":0.582},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:36:06.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:36:07.924000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:36:08.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:36:39.853000+08:00","text":"我再簡單追問一個問題，中研院有個數位文化中心，大約有131個資料庫、工具平臺還有主題網站這些數位化的成果，可是有些網站已經失效，需要轉置也需要重新檢視，現在需要重新檢視的資料庫有107個，看起來有做盤點、下架，不過，本席發現還有少數的網站是失效的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:36:40.594000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:36:57.786000+08:00","text":"另外，本席之前也有說過關鍵字的搜尋功能，目前只能針對個別的網站來提供簡短的說明、內容做搜尋，沒有辦法跨資料庫的檢索，這部分似乎好像還沒有改善。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:36:58.566000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:37:26.208000+08:00","text":"整體來說，雖然中研院有數位典藏平臺當作入口的網站，可是彙整大部分的數位資源、成果的網站跟實際操作起來，還是難以實現跨資料庫的檢索，使用者還是要進到不同的網站，反覆輸入關鍵字，以上本席所提到的，中研院在改善、精進上覺得還有哪些挑戰？院長。","quality":0.953},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:37:28.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:37:34.536000+08:00","text":"我想關於網頁失聯的部分，我們會請數位化中心來改進。","quality":0.478},{"speaker":"陳召集人熙遠","start":"2025-11-13T11:37:35.757000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:37:36.017000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳召集人熙遠","start":"2025-11-13T11:37:36.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:38:09.462000+08:00","text":"上次委員提醒之後，我們在院長指示之下做了各所的統整，當然因為我們承接了過去國家數位典藏計畫裡面的一些資料，所以包括了不只您剛剛說的一百多個網站，其實有三百多個網站正在維運當中，的確有很多因為系統的部分也停擺了，這是過去國家數位典藏留下來的資產，我們也希望能夠活化，其實我們是兵分兩路，一個是我們中研院既有的各個所，他們所維運的系統是不是能透過您所提到的這種跨庫檢索來進行？","quality":0.594},{"speaker":"陳召集人熙遠","start":"2025-11-13T11:38:10.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:38:13.186000+08:00","text":"這個東西涉及到整個網路架構的問題，我們還在盤點之中。","quality":0.458},{"speaker":"陳召集人熙遠","start":"2025-11-13T11:38:13.867000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:38:37.611000+08:00","text":"另外一個就是國家數位典藏留下來的這三百多個網頁，我們進行維運，當然也涉及到資安的問題，我們現在希望這個東西提供一個聯合目錄的重新的整新或再併，這個情形就會使得我們同仁在使用所謂過去國家建置的這些資料的時候，能夠繼續使用或活化，謝謝委員指導，我們會進一步提供，讓您能夠了解。","quality":0.543},{"speaker":"林委員宜瑾","start":"2025-11-13T11:38:38.091000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:38:41.192000+08:00","text":"好，再努力、再加油，謝謝院長、謝謝主席。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:38:43.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:38:46.475000+08:00","text":"謝謝林宜瑾委員，請院長回座。","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:38:46.975000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:38:50.975000+08:00","text":"現在請楊瓊瓔委員質詢，時間4分鐘。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}