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謝謝主席 我們邀請院長我請院長楊委員好"},{"start":11.687,"end":33.929,"text":"院長好 我們來討論再生能源院長 這個畫面你應該不陌生因為你之前在演講的時候也提到2050年再生能源風電跟太陽能在我國最大的提供大概是100兆瓦斯一千億度多少"},{"start":35.106,"end":51.804,"text":"1000亿度对啊就是1000亿度100兆瓦时那即便把现有的核电厂重新再启用也大概只有30亿兆瓦时那剩下的这个电力缺口还是要以其他的方式来补是"},{"start":52.725,"end":78.606,"text":"那您提出了因为我们我国的这个地球这个地下人口三分之二大概是山地所以光电跟风电这个确实它是受到空间的一个受限那在这样的情况之下你认为到目前为止你看我们发展的再生能源我们是不是有这样子的一个空间的一个受限请做说明是会有限制没有错"},{"start":79.56,"end":103.053,"text":"是会有限制那么再生能源在台湾来讲它发展上似乎如果如此它变成会有一个上限而且它会有一个阻碍那也代表着我们的再生能源跟新能源并列核电不管是现有的重启研疫或者是未来的发展都是我们能源政策应该采用的重点吧是不是 院长是的"},{"start":103.553,"end":127.66,"text":"是的那所以在演讲当中您也提到2023年的时候我们用电大概是280这个2800亿度2800亿度那在这样的情况之下就算假设我们经济成长是零我们到了2050年的时候我们至少要5000亿度我们至少要5000亿度那甚至可能要到6000亿度是的"},{"start":128.78,"end":152.398,"text":"那這個數字還沒有算上現在新的AI的資料的大量的一個需求那所以在2050年我們再生能源擴展的上限是1000億度的時候那麼從數字上跟邏輯上來看如果繼續非核家園的政策根本沒有辦法支撐這個國家所需要的電力缺口是不是如此"},{"start":154.017,"end":168.484,"text":"即使用核能仍然是不够对我们要强调是即使用核能仍然不够所以核能是必要的是会有帮助的是会用核能是会有帮助的所以我们继续讨论也就是说"},{"start":169.544,"end":187.237,"text":"曾經您也說過我們國家的一個發展它不應該排除核能在這樣的脈絡之下本席要請教過去政府推這個廢核也就是廢核家園的政策那你是不是同意啊政府當前的廢核家園政策你是不是同意"},{"start":187.777,"end":214.926,"text":"每一个政策都有它的时代背景而且科技是随着时间在不断的进步所以目前为止呢目前这一般的体认是不用核能是非常可惜的一件事情因为核能毕竟它是现在被接受为一个捷径能源"},{"start":215.606,"end":234.988,"text":"但是它必須要為社會民眾所接受也必須要能夠處理核廢料的問題更重要的是安全要沒有顧慮那這三項在目前的至少兩項就是安全跟核廢料至少安全在技術上是可以"},{"start":236.329,"end":257.563,"text":"可以突破的剩下就是核废料的处理是比较困难一点全世界也同样没有核废料没有地方做永久核废料的处置剩下就要说服一般民众一般民众即使你赞成也说建在你家不要建在我家建在你家我就赞成建在我家我就"},{"start":258.483,"end":279.247,"text":"所以这么的解读就是说目前政府当前的非核家园政策它是没有办法去回应我国未来电力的需求是不是因为政府也说他们采开放性的一个态度来看待这件事情你确定说这个非核家园是不是仍然是政府的政策"},{"start":280.578,"end":308.792,"text":"这我不确定所以刚刚院长所说的也就是因为核电整个的目前跟以往的技术是不一样的所以这一点是比较安全的一个取向那所以在这样的情况下现在我们的环境基本法的23条也就明定规定政府应该定定计划逐步达成非核家园的这个目标那如果照院长我们以及现在社会大众以及全世界的一个方向你是否愿意"},{"start":309.212,"end":333.217,"text":"来表示说支持我们整个重启核电这样子的一个积极的发展核能态度是的因为本席在经济委员会现在他们的进度是签合到经济部那可能下个据本席了解的进度下个礼拜就会由经济部来核定他们的安检是否需"},{"start":333.937,"end":351.505,"text":"许可不许可那么我们希望这个方向是朝正面的开始启动我认为是正面的你认为是正面的所以在荷兰的技术方面要向全民能够说明是安全性没有问题"},{"start":353.046,"end":375.922,"text":"这个我想大家才容易接受所以在整个核安因为你是学术界的牛耳麻院长我们实质讨论也就是说目前台电在盘点核二核三那进程大概下个礼拜会去做核定的工作那么请教如果我们在整个提升核电安全技术上面"},{"start":377.884,"end":392.155,"text":"來做核二核三的一個安全性的運轉方向來執行台灣目前是有這個能力的嗎請教當然所有事情不應該只限於台灣的能力我們可以引進國外的技術是"},{"start":393.756,"end":412,"text":"我想引进国内国际上绝对是有这个技术国际上有这个技术所以这个方向是可行的所以我们也希望因为国内大家希望能够有稳定的电安全的电一定要朝这个方向好好来加油谢谢谢谢杨琼英委员院长请"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:04.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:05.810000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，我們邀請院長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:05.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:06.010000+08:00","text":"有請院長。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:06.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:06.030000+08:00","text":"楊委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:12.687000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:12.947000+08:00","text":"院長好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:13.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:31.746000+08:00","text":"我們來討論再生能源，院長，這個畫面你應該不陌生，因為你之前在演講的時候也提到，2050年再生能源風電跟太陽能在我國最大的提供大概是100兆瓦時……","quality":0.983},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:33.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:34.909000+08:00","text":"1,000億度。多少？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:36.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:36.886000+08:00","text":"1,000億度。對啊！","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:37.087000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:38.829000+08:00","text":"就是1,000億度、100兆瓦時。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:39.870000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:39:52.784000+08:00","text":"即便把現有的核電廠重新再啟用，也大概只有30億兆瓦時，剩下的電力缺口還是要以其他方式來補。是。","quality":0.756},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:39:53.865000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:40:17.023000+08:00","text":"您提出因為我國地狹人稠，大概三分之二是山地，所以光電跟風電確實是受到空間的限制，在這樣的情況之下，到目前為止，你認為我們發展的再生能源是不是有這樣子的空間受限？","quality":0.676},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:40:17.684000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:40:18.004000+08:00","text":"請做說明。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:40:18.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:40:19.505000+08:00","text":"是會有限制沒有錯。","quality":0.625},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:40:20.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:40:21.180000+08:00","text":"是會有限制？對。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:40:22.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:40:42.832000+08:00","text":"再生能源在臺灣來講，它發展上如果如此，變成會有一個上限，而且它會有一個阻礙，也代表著我們的再生能源跟新能源並列，核電不管是現有的重啟、延役，或者是未來的發展，都是我們能源政策應該採用的重點吧！","quality":0.713},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:40:43.252000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:40:44.033000+08:00","text":"是不是？院長。是的。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:40:45.613000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:40:49.995000+08:00","text":"所以在演講當中你也提到，2023年的時候，我們用電量大概是280……","quality":0.696},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:40:53.195000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:40:53.195000+08:00","text":"2,800億度。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:40:56.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:41:08.620000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，就算假設我們經濟成長是零，到了2050年的時候，我們至少要5,000億度，甚至可能要到6,000億度。是。","quality":0.682},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:41:10.681000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:41:16.745000+08:00","text":"這個數字還沒有算上現在新的AI資料的大量需求。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:41:17.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:41:33.378000+08:00","text":"所以在2050年我們再生能源擴展的上限是1,000億度的時候，從數字上跟邏輯上來看，如果繼續非核家園的政策，根本沒有辦法支撐這個國家所需要的電力缺口，是不是如此？","quality":0.985},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:41:35.017000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:41:36.958000+08:00","text":"即使用核能，仍然是不夠。對。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:41:37.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:41:38.619000+08:00","text":"我們要強調的是……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:41:39.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:41:42.080000+08:00","text":"即使用核能仍然不夠，所以核能是必要的。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:41:43.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:41:44.642000+08:00","text":"是會有幫助的。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:41:45.342000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:41:46.963000+08:00","text":"用核能是會有幫助的？是。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:41:48.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:42:03.934000+08:00","text":"那我們繼續討論，也就是說，您曾經說過我們國家的發展不應該排除核能，在這樣的脈絡之下，本席要請教，過去政府推廢核，也就是非核家園的政策，那你是不是同意？","quality":0.866},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:42:04.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:42:08.217000+08:00","text":"政府當前的非核家園政策你是不是同意？","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:42:08.777000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:42:17.580000+08:00","text":"每一個政策都有它的時代背景，而且科技是隨著時間不斷在進步。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:42:18.020000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:42:19.120000+08:00","text":"是，所以目前為止呢？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:42:19.981000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:42:55.968000+08:00","text":"目前一般的體認是不用核能是非常可惜的一件事情，因為畢竟核能是現在被接受為一個潔淨能源，但是它必須要為社會民眾所接受，也必須要能夠處理核廢料的問題，更重要的是，安全要沒有顧慮，這三項在目前至少兩項，就是安全跟核廢料，至少安全在技術上是可以突破的。","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:42:57.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:42:57.729000+08:00","text":"技術上可以突破？對。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:42:58.750000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:43:18.543000+08:00","text":"剩下的就是核廢料的處理是比較困難一點，全世界也同樣沒有地方做永久核廢料的處置，那剩下的就要說服一般民眾，一般民眾即使贊成，也說建在你家，不要建在我家，建在你家我就贊成，建在我家我就再說。","quality":0.765},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:43:19.724000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:43:29.555000+08:00","text":"可以這麼解讀，就是目前政府當前的非核家園政策是沒有辦法回應我國未來電力的需求，是不是？","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:43:29.555000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:43:30.555000+08:00","text":"我不確定……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:43:30.015000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:43:34.120000+08:00","text":"因為政府也說他們採開放性的態度來看待這件事情。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:43:35.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:43:42.058000+08:00","text":"我不確定現在非核家園是不是仍然是政府的政策，這個我不確定。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:43:42.899000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:43:52.643000+08:00","text":"誠如剛剛院長所說的，因為核電目前跟以往的技術是不一樣的，所以這一點是比較安全的一個取向……","quality":0.634},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:43:52.643000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:43:54.204000+08:00","text":"可以往安全……","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:43:54.204000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:44:03.349000+08:00","text":"在這種情況下，現在我們的環境基本法第二十三條也明定，政府應該訂定計畫，逐步達成非核家園這個目標。","quality":0.523},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:44:03.989000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:44:18.834000+08:00","text":"如果照院長、現在社會大眾以及全世界的一個方向，你是否願意來表示說支持我們重啟核電這樣一個積極發展核能的態度？是的。","quality":0.642},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:44:20.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:44:35.677000+08:00","text":"本席在經濟委員會，現在他們的進度是簽核到經濟部，據本席了解的進度，下個禮拜就會由經濟部來核定他們的安檢許可、不許可。對。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:44:36.578000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:44:39.819000+08:00","text":"我們希望這個方向是朝正面的開始啟動。","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:44:40.780000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:44:42.280000+08:00","text":"我認為是正面的。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:44:42.700000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:44:46.022000+08:00","text":"你認為是正面的，所以在核安的技術方面……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:44:46.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:44:56.147000+08:00","text":"要能向全民說明安全性沒有問題，我想大家才容易接受。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:44:58.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:45:27.010000+08:00","text":"好，因為院長是學術界的牛耳，我們實質討論核安議題，目前台電在盤點核二、核三，進程大概是下個禮拜會去做核定的工作，那麼請教，如果我們在整個提升核電安全技術上面，往核二、核三安全性運轉方向執行，臺灣目前是有這個能力的嗎？","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:45:27.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:45:27.010000+08:00","text":"請教院長。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"廖院長俊智","start":"2025-11-13T11:45:28.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:45:36.777000+08:00","text":"當然所有事情不應該只限於臺灣的能力，我們可以引進國外的技術，我想國際上絕對是有這個技術。","quality":0.829},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:45:37.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:45:40.097000+08:00","text":"國際上有這個技術，所以這個方向是可行的嘛？是的。","quality":0.524},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:45:42.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:45:49.120000+08:00","text":"因為國內大家希望能夠有穩定的電、安全的電，所以我們也希望一定要朝這個方向好好來加油，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.512},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:45:49.620000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:45:53.048571+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員，院長請回座。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:45:53.348571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:45:56.205714+08:00","text":"現在請吳沛憶委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}