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陽勛發言 首先邀請速發部邀請速發部是 委員好本席請教 從我們今年的11月5號我們開始發放普發現金1萬元的政策線上登記您領了嗎我自己還沒領 還沒去登記"},{"start":29.463,"end":49.506,"text":"還沒登記那你預估會用什麼方式呢我應該也是用這個線上登記的方式用線上登記那平台上現在登記需要填寫身份證金融帳號健保卡那當然我們現在宣稱說是符合這個高資安的標準"},{"start":50.367,"end":69.843,"text":"但是你有沒有聽到民眾因為近期的這個詐騙氾濫所以你只要涉及要填寫的這一些他都會擔心受騙所以他寧可放棄了線上登記改到ATM或者是改到郵局臨櫃來領現金"},{"start":72.164,"end":90.558,"text":"這樣子的現象等於會直接反映到速發部我們在政策落實跟在民眾的信賴度建立上似乎還有精進的空間那麼本席在這邊要請教也就是速發部你如何看待民眾生怕我將這三個資料這個登記上網之後呢怕會被詐騙因為現在詐騙非常的氾濫那你要怎麼樣"},{"start":100.845,"end":118.805,"text":"如何來讓平台它是有信任度操作是安全跟防詐的一個教育請做說明是 報告委員就是我們現在包括剛才委員講到的說身份證字號健保卡號跟帳號其實它是要同一個人"},{"start":119.506,"end":134.351,"text":"我们会去检查是同一个人才会去把那个钱汇进去所以即使他这个身份证号当然是同一个人你怎么可能身份证跟你的账号不一样那你怎么可能对不对你这说明我挺怪怪的当然是同一个人他就依照你的指令这样去登记但是他会害怕因为诈骗犯难太严重所以即使说这个诈骗集团拿着别人的这个资料去填"},{"start":149.608,"end":176.972,"text":"最後這個錢一定是匯到這個人的帳號因為他三個是要同一個人才會通過所以最後錢不會匯到詐騙集團的帳號去一定是到這個人的帳號那這個是我們技術上面可以把它解決的你們現在技術這麼解決但是會再衍生第二個問題也就是我這一些資料公開之後在我還沒有收到錢的時候他會不會被轉換出去"},{"start":177.852,"end":205.456,"text":"有沒有這個危機不會不會會不會有這個危機這個就是本席非常希望因為他是一個便利的但是當民眾有疑慮的時候我們要怎麼樣去解除民眾的疑慮只有我們單位知道民眾還是這個憂心這樣是不夠的所以本席才會說我們在整個信賴度上面我們要怎麼樣去加強還有我們防詐的一個教育要怎麼樣落實讓民眾可以清楚"},{"start":206.599,"end":221.215,"text":"報告委員我們可以在我們那個10000.gov.nz這個網站上面就在登記那邊我們可以多一點訊息讓民眾可以更放心這樣子的一個方式這個也是你精進的方案之一所以本席也希望因為我們現在剛開始"},{"start":222.797,"end":243.24,"text":"很多人還是告訴我說我去郵局領 我去ATM領這樣我比較放心但是我們既然已經有速發部來開發不要讓民眾不放心你把你的經濟方案給本席讓民眾對於我們的平台是信賴的好的把那個方案給本席謝謝 接下來本席邀請金管會"},{"start":249.349,"end":275.909,"text":"金管會我們接受到蠻多的一個陳情因為金管會我們在要求銀行啟用這個AI風險系統打擊詐騙控管這是對的但是問題是有很多的零工的經紀者比如說網拍 呼編單這一種的以及中高齡的用戶那麼他們因為是小額平凡的交易或者是新轉帳的這個情況比較頻繁"},{"start":279.312,"end":297.387,"text":"但是他是一個正常的一個生活所需的必要技術也好方法也好必要用的一個他的工具所以在這種情況之下有一個帳戶在三個月內有26筆的小額匯款但是呢另外還有6筆每一筆不到3000元"},{"start":299.963,"end":327.594,"text":"不到3000元的這個匯款但是它被銀行鎖住了那鎖住了它當然它的生財工具就被凍結所以在這樣的一個情況之下因為它被誤以為是高風險的賬號所以在這樣的情況之下呢本席要請教我們銀行如果在明確的標準跟救濟的管道應該要有這些救濟的管道要迅速而且有救濟的管道"},{"start":328.374,"end":350.312,"text":"能夠讓民眾在正常生活跟正常收入的時候它不受影響因為它的一個經濟體的方式是不一樣的是小額而且頻繁的所以我們希望也就是金融在防詐的時候不要成為它是生活的阻礙而且削弱了金融的一個包容性所以因此本席要請教對於合法使用"},{"start":353.414,"end":370.266,"text":"因高風險而被排除金融體系的這個情況我們對於這樣子的一個銀行風險控管的標準以及設立快速救濟的通道我們應該是要提出具體的方案吧請做說明是 謝委員的這個垂詢"},{"start":373.427,"end":403.287,"text":"那我们对于银行去控管账户,我们都会要求他做一个事前的一个标准,严格的标准的一个审查,那事中的话也要随时去看这个客户的一个实际的状况,那事后的话也要检查他们控管的这个方式合不合理,像委员刚提到的个案,那如果是正常交易的,那他如果被锁住了,要马上跟银行联络,银行就会去判断他如果是网拍,他有大量进出的需要,"},{"start":403.707,"end":426.765,"text":"那他馬上就會給他解鎖那這個解鎖的方式可能包括電話、網路、臨櫃都可以沒有那麼清楚也沒有那麼簡便所以本席接到這樣子的陳情所以要跟這個單位來說明我們當然防詐我們一定要防詐控管這個風險但是它是正常所需要的當他發現被鎖的時候"},{"start":430.067,"end":450.307,"text":"他去陳情的時候 他去說明的時候本席認為在整個救濟的管道應該要更便捷 更快速是 就誠如我剛跟委員報告的目前大概就是我剛說的三種方式那如果是個案的話 委員是不是可以提供給我們"},{"start":450.828,"end":476,"text":"不是說個案我們現在在討論的是他的制度跟方向所以本席也具體建議您給這個銀行團告訴他們你們現在有你們的方案那你們是不是再去檢視民眾有困難的時候如果他屬實你們查證他是如本席剛才所說的忽偏大的網拍的他必須要如此的時候那麼也請具體"},{"start":477.281,"end":486.643,"text":"以快速減變的方式讓他們可以恢復他正常生活所需好不好好 我們回去再好 經濟方案也給本席 好嗎好 謝謝謝謝楊卓明委員"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:25:53.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:25:53.442000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:25:53.783000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:25:54.003000+08:00","text":"楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請數發部。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:25:54.223000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:25:54.403000+08:00","text":"請數發部。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"王司長誠明","start":"2025-11-13T11:25:54.443000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:25:54.463000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:25:54.483000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:25:55.664000+08:00","text":"本席請教，我們從今年11月5日開始發放普發現金一萬元的政策線上登記，您領了嗎？","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"王司長誠明","start":"2025-11-13T11:25:55.664000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:25:56.004000+08:00","text":"我自己還沒領，也還沒去登記。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:26:21.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:26:21.944000+08:00","text":"還沒登記。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:26:22.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:26:23.646000+08:00","text":"你預估會用什麼方式呢？","quality":1},{"speaker":"王司長誠明","start":"2025-11-13T11:26:24.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:26:26.649000+08:00","text":"我應該也是用線上登記的方式。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:26:26.809000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:26:28.511000+08:00","text":"用線上登記。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:26:28.752000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:27:15.793000+08:00","text":"現在在平臺登記需要填寫身分證字號、金融帳號、健保卡號，當然我們現在宣稱是符合高資安標準，但是你有沒有聽到民眾因為近期的詐騙氾濫，只要涉及要填寫這一些個資，他都會擔心受騙，所以他寧可放棄線上登記改用ATM，或者是改到郵局臨櫃領取現金，這現象等於會直接反映到數發部在政策落實跟民眾信賴度建立上，似乎還有精進的空間。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:27:16.113000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:27:22.117000+08:00","text":"本席請教數發部，如何看待民眾將這三個資料登記上網之後，深怕會被詐騙？","quality":0.935},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:27:22.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:27:40.914000+08:00","text":"因為現在詐騙非常的氾濫，你們要怎麼樣如何來讓平臺是有信任度，操作是的安全及如何落實防詐的教育？","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:27:41.815000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:27:42.096000+08:00","text":"請說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王司長誠明","start":"2025-11-13T11:27:43.177000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:27:56.168000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們現在包括剛才委員提到身分證字號、健保卡號及帳號，其實他是要同一個人，我們會去檢查是同一個人，才會去把錢匯進去，所以即使他身分證字號或是……","quality":0.735},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:27:57.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:27:58.488000+08:00","text":"當然是同一個人。","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"王司長誠明","start":"2025-11-13T11:27:58.488000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:27:59.488000+08:00","text":"對，身分證號……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:27:58.769000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:01.209000+08:00","text":"你怎麼可能身分證跟你的帳號不一樣，對不對？了解。","quality":0.476},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:01.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:03.170000+08:00","text":"你這說明邏輯怪怪的。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"王司長誠明","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:03.170000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:04.170000+08:00","text":"所以剛才委員講到，如果……","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:03.270000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:04.711000+08:00","text":"當然是同一個人，他就依照你的指令去登記，但是他會害怕啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:04.771000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:05.091000+08:00","text":"因為詐騙氾濫太嚴重。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"王司長誠明","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:05.111000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:37.081000+08:00","text":"所以即使詐騙集團拿著別人的資料去填，最後這筆錢一定是匯到這個人的帳號，因為這三個資料是要同一個人才會通過，所以最後錢不會匯到詐騙集團的帳號，一定是匯到這個人的帳號，這是我們技術上就可以解決的。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:37.322000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:48.952000+08:00","text":"你們現在技術這樣解決，但是會再衍生第二個問題，也就是我這一些資料公開之後，在我還沒有收到錢之前，它會不會被轉換出去？不會。","quality":0.891},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:49.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:51.694000+08:00","text":"有沒有這個危機？不會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:51.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:28:52.835000+08:00","text":"會不會有這個危機？","quality":1},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:28:53.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:06.707000+08:00","text":"本席非常希望，因為平臺是一個便利的方式，但是當民眾有疑慮的時候，我們要怎麼樣去解除民眾的疑慮，只有我們單位知道，民眾還是憂心，這樣是不夠的。","quality":0.937},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:07.147000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:13.312000+08:00","text":"所以本席才會說在整個信賴度上面，你們要怎麼樣去加強？","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:13.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:17.436000+08:00","text":"還有防詐的教育要怎麼樣落實，以讓民眾可以清楚？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"王司長誠明","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:18.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:28.870000+08:00","text":"報告委員，我們可以在10000.gov.tw這網站的登記畫面多一點訊息，讓民眾可以更放心這樣的領取方式。","quality":0.841},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:29.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:50.314000+08:00","text":"這也是你們精進的方案之一，所以本席也希望，因為我們現在剛開始，很多人還是告訴我，去郵局領或是用ATM領，這樣的方式會比較放心，但是我們既然已經有數發部來開發，不要讓民眾不放心，你把你們的精進方案提供給本席，讓民眾對於我們的平臺是信賴的。好的。","quality":0.873},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:51.976000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:53.858000+08:00","text":"把精進方案提供給本席，謝謝。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:53.858000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:29:55.240000+08:00","text":"接下來，本席邀請金管會。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副局長允中","start":"2025-11-13T11:29:55.240000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:30:01.349000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:30:01.349000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:30:12.498000+08:00","text":"請教金管會，我們接受到蠻多的陳情案，因為金管會要求銀行啟用AI風險系統打擊詐騙控管，這是對的。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:30:13.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:30:27.669000+08:00","text":"問題是，很多零工經濟者，比如網拍者或foodpanda之類的以及中高齡用戶等，因為小額頻繁交易或薪轉帳戶異常而被凍結。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:30:27.689000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:30:40.319000+08:00","text":"這是其正常生活所需且必要的技術也好、方法也好，這是他必須要用的工具。","quality":0.774},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:30:41.200000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:31:07.169000+08:00","text":"在這樣的情況之下，有一個帳戶在三個月內有26筆的小額匯款，另外還有6筆匯款，每一筆都不到3,000元，結果他的帳戶因此被銀行鎖住了，生財工具也就被凍結了，因為被誤以為是高風險帳號。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:31:08.790000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:31:31.503000+08:00","text":"本席請教，在明確的標準下，銀行應該設立救濟管道且迅速處理，讓民眾的正常生活與收入不受影響，畢竟其經濟體的方式是不一樣的，屬小額且頻繁交易的。","quality":0.719},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:31:32.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:31:40.610000+08:00","text":"我們希望金融機構在防詐時能注意，不要因此造成民眾生活上的阻礙，甚至削弱了金融的包容性。","quality":0.675},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:31:41.691000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:01.325000+08:00","text":"本席要請教，對於合法使用，卻因高風險而被排除在金融體系的情況，銀行應有風險控管標準，並設立快速的救濟通道，對此，應該要提出具體方案吧？","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:01.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:02.046000+08:00","text":"請做說明。","quality":1},{"speaker":"王副局長允中","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:02.066000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:02.266000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員的垂詢。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"王副局長允中","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:06.668000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:23.219000+08:00","text":"對於銀行去控管帳戶，我們都會要求銀行做事前的嚴格標準審查，事中也要隨時察看客戶的實際狀況，事後檢討其控管方式合不合理。","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"王副局長允中","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:23.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:32.045000+08:00","text":"像委員剛剛提到的個案，如果屬正常交易卻被鎖住，要馬上跟銀行聯絡，如此銀行就會去判斷。","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"王副局長允中","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:33.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:42.793000+08:00","text":"如網拍有大量進出的需要，那麼銀行會馬上解鎖；至於解鎖的方式可能包括電話、網路、臨櫃都可以……","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:42.833000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:32:50.238000+08:00","text":"其實沒有那麼清楚，也沒有那麼簡便，所以本席接到這樣的陳情，並向主管單位說明。","quality":0.824},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:32:50.939000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:11.156000+08:00","text":"我們當然要防詐，也一定要控管風險，但這是民眾正常生活所需，因此，當民眾發現帳戶被鎖，去陳情、去向銀行說明時，相關的救濟管道應該要更便捷、更快速。","quality":0.698},{"speaker":"王副局長允中","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:14.680000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:22.307000+08:00","text":"誠如我剛剛跟委員報告的，目前大概有我剛才說的三種方式，至於個案問題，委員是不是可以提供給我們，我們看狀況來協助……","quality":0.706},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:22.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:27.030000+08:00","text":"不是個案，而且我們現在在討論的是制度跟方向。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:27.670000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:55.636000+08:00","text":"所以本席具體建議，並請你們轉告銀行團：你們現在有你們的方案，但是不是請你們再去檢視，當民眾遇到困難且經查證屬實的話，譬如本席剛才所說的foodpanda、網拍者之類的，必須要這樣做的時候，請銀行以快速、簡便的方式讓他們恢復正常生活所需，好不好？","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"王副局長允中","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:55.656000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:56.097000+08:00","text":"好，我們回去再研議……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"楊委員瓊瓔","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:57.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:58.141000+08:00","text":"精進方案再給本席，好嗎？謝謝。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"王副局長允中","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:58.141000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:58.162000+08:00","text":"好的，謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:58.162000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-13T11:33:58.643000+08:00","text":"謝謝楊瓊瓔委員發言。","quality":0.556},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-13T11:33:59.143000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-13T11:34:02.571571+08:00","text":"接下來請林林思銘委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}