{"error":false,"id":["165516"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":165516,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/165516","日期":"2025-11-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-4-26-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":4,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2025-11-17T11:38:04+08:00","結束時間":"2025-11-17T11:57:51+08:00","影片長度":"00:19:47","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/ff1e125e807f56abe0c3ee68357880b0bfb6dfa65ed0fc1d80df8a4d5e0e61e35298a28bd9a4829e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林淑芬","委員發言時間":"11:38:04 - 11:57:51","會議時間":"2025-11-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員黃健豪等16人、委員陳超明等16人、委員蘇清泉等17人、委員呂玉玲等16人及委員柯志恩等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十三條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等19人、委員林國成等32人、委員王育敏等20人、委員蔡其昌等19人、委員羅廷瑋等16人、委員蔡易餘等18人、委員王美惠等17人、委員徐欣瑩等22人、委員翁曉玲等19人、委員楊曜等25人及委員王鴻薇等22人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十六條及第六十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員邱鎮軍等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第三十一條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員李昆澤等25人及委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第六十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員廖先翔等18人擬具「勞工保險條例第十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員葉元之等21人、委員何欣純等17人及委員陳超明等16人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)委員陳秀寳等21人擬具「勞工保險條例部分條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員王鴻薇等17人擬具「勞工保險條例第七十四條之二條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員林倩綺等32人及委員傅崐萁等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第五十九條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員陳瑩等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第六條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員李昆澤等19人擬具「勞工保險條例第二十九條條文修正草案」案。\n\n二、審查\n(一)委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十七條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)委員涂權吉等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(三)委員許宇甄等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(四)委員翁曉玲等22人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(五)委員蘇清泉等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(六)委員廖偉翔等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(七)委員洪孟楷等16人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(八)台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(九)委員柯志恩等18人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十)委員王育敏等17人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條、第二十七條及第二十八條條文修正草案」案。\n(十一)委員楊瓊瓔等27人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條條文修正草案」案。\n(十二)委員郭國文等19人擬具「就業服務法第二十四條及第二十六條之一條文修正草案」案。\n【綜合詢答，僅詢答】）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":6.629093750000001,"end":9.46409375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":9.71721875,"end":10.645343750000002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":16.58534375,"end":17.22659375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":17.31096875,"end":122.69534375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":123.06659375000001,"end":164.25846875000002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":164.81534375,"end":195.35909375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":195.15659375,"end":254.50596875000002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":197.82284375,"end":198.63284375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":252.63284375,"end":252.91971875000002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":254.92784375000002,"end":260.69909375000003,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":261.32346875,"end":282.99096875000004,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":283.21034375,"end":301.08096875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":301.73909375,"end":372.93471875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":373.35659375,"end":398.95596875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":399.58034375000005,"end":403.37721875000005,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":404.18721875,"end":410.19471875000005,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":409.92471875,"end":410.56596875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":410.80221875,"end":411.89909375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":410.98784375,"end":411.93284375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":413.28284375000004,"end":425.58471875000004,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":425.88846875,"end":426.68159375000005,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":427.06971875000005,"end":428.13284375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":428.58846875,"end":436.43534375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":437.38034375,"end":438.66284375000004,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":437.46471875000003,"end":440.36721875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":440.99159375000005,"end":443.89409375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":444.55221875,"end":446.12159375000005,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":446.12159375000005,"end":446.54346875000005,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":446.89784375000005,"end":448.82159375000003,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":449.26034375,"end":451.21784375000004,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":451.45409375,"end":461.64659375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":462.45659375,"end":472.05846875000003,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":472.05846875000003,"end":475.95659375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":478.21784375000004,"end":479.53409375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":479.63534375,"end":482.85846875000004,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":483.21284375000005,"end":485.27159375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":486.31784375,"end":494.36721875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":494.65409375,"end":500.47596875000005,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":500.61096875000004,"end":501.06659375000004,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":501.47159375,"end":506.51721875000004,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":506.51721875000004,"end":508.66034375000004,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":508.82909375,"end":523.0715937500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":523.3078437500001,"end":554.03721875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":554.64471875,"end":558.7959687499999,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":559.57221875,"end":580.61534375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":581.93159375,"end":591.61784375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":593.8959687500001,"end":594.2334687499999,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":595.56659375,"end":599.76846875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":598.75596875,"end":613.42034375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":612.98159375,"end":626.21159375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":618.63471875,"end":619.34346875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":619.34346875,"end":619.3940937500001,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":620.72721875,"end":621.01409375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":621.01409375,"end":621.0815937500001,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":626.49846875,"end":630.00846875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":630.66659375,"end":632.4384687500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":630.7847187500001,"end":641.4834687499999,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":637.85534375,"end":638.31096875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":640.28534375,"end":640.84221875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":641.41596875,"end":644.58846875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":645.1453437499999,"end":666.3740937500002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":666.6272187500001,"end":677.68034375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":678.1528437500001,"end":679.1147187500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":679.33409375,"end":725.3015937499999,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":725.4197187500001,"end":736.05096875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":736.3715937500001,"end":753.02721875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":754.32659375,"end":797.18909375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":797.8640937500002,"end":805.91346875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":806.45346875,"end":808.2422187500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":807.9890937500002,"end":808.15784375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":808.2422187500001,"end":808.3940937500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":808.3940937500001,"end":808.47846875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":808.8328437500002,"end":810.53721875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":809.84534375,"end":810.5203437500002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":812.54534375,"end":813.82784375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":814.0134687500001,"end":815.93721875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":815.04284375,"end":815.8022187500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":816.34221875,"end":818.8059687500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":819.14346875,"end":822.5859687500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":822.92346875,"end":825.33659375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":825.5559687500001,"end":833.8247187500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":825.75846875,"end":826.29846875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":832.66034375,"end":834.21284375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":834.07784375,"end":860.75721875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":859.0190937500001,"end":876.2990937500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉組長玉儀","start":871.7934687500001,"end":871.8103437500001,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":871.8103437500001,"end":872.3334687500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":873.6497187500001,"end":874.12221875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":875.94471875,"end":885.91784375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":884.36534375,"end":886.74471875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":887.5547187500001,"end":894.0178437500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":894.20346875,"end":900.43034375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":898.75971875,"end":899.45159375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":901.6453437500002,"end":901.93221875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":901.93221875,"end":905.1215937500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":905.1215937500001,"end":908.6484687500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":909.1884687500001,"end":911.24721875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":911.24721875,"end":913.2722187500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":912.25971875,"end":922.24971875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":915.4153437500001,"end":916.42784375,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":922.2834687500001,"end":935.3615937500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":935.3615937500001,"end":1095.0159687500002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":1095.0159687500002,"end":1107.7734687500001,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1107.5034687500001,"end":1112.07659375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":1108.5159687500002,"end":1108.9209687500002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":1112.07659375,"end":1112.36346875,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1112.3297187500002,"end":1116.0759687500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1116.59909375,"end":1119.6534687500002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":1119.0628437500002,"end":1119.9065937500002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1120.3284687500002,"end":1123.0284687500002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":1124.0915937500001,"end":1125.7959687500002,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1126.0659687500001,"end":1127.0447187500001,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"黃署長齡玉","start":1126.2347187500002,"end":1126.60596875,"speaker_score":0.958},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1127.83784375,"end":1130.4365937500002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1130.8922187500002,"end":1138.2159687500002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉組長玉儀","start":1138.8572187500001,"end":1138.97534375,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1138.97534375,"end":1141.05096875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉組長玉儀","start":1139.8865937500002,"end":1150.9734687500002,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1150.6697187500001,"end":1152.15471875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉組長玉儀","start":1152.76221875,"end":1153.42034375,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉組長玉儀","start":1153.87596875,"end":1158.22971875,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1158.4490937500002,"end":1161.5372187500002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉組長玉儀","start":1158.53346875,"end":1159.47846875,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉組長玉儀","start":1164.2203437500002,"end":1166.63346875,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1165.9078437500002,"end":1168.79346875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","speaker_name":"劉組長玉儀","start":1169.2828437500002,"end":1170.90284375,"speaker_score":0.866},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1171.29096875,"end":1173.53534375,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1173.95721875,"end":1179.15471875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1179.2559687500002,"end":1182.2090937500002,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":1182.3103437500001,"end":1182.6309687500002,"speaker_score":0.942},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"林委員淑芬","start":1183.13721875,"end":1184.79096875,"speaker_score":0.87},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","speaker_name":"洪部長申翰","start":1185.5503437500001,"end":1188.1322187500002,"speaker_score":0.942}],"whisperx":[{"start":7.23,"end":10.473,"text":"謝謝主席 是不是請我們洪部長有請洪部長部長 超高齡社會的來臨少子化勞動力不足也是一個問題但是勞動力高齡化危機也是不容忽視"},{"start":31.767,"end":51.056,"text":"但是我們要問的就是說政府和企業準備好了嗎那新秉隆教授他有提出來他說上上一次我們勞基法修法這個強制退休的規定修法只做了半套因為我們允許勞僱雙方協商可以在延後那他們其實認為說其實政府應該增加幾個"},{"start":56.138,"end":85.263,"text":"鼓勵的機制留任的機制那協助企業不要只用年齡作為退休與否的這個判斷基礎那強制退休的規定喔還會造成老人貧窮因為高齡者被強制退休以後你知道的再度就業事實上找到了工作跟收入都會低很低在這種狀況裡面他們提到第一個就是說不應該因為年齡設限而應該要訂出留任"},{"start":85.723,"end":111.465,"text":"留任65歲以後因為我們的修法是雙方要協議那雙方如果沒有協議的話還是要被強制退休其實我們應該要教企業如何評估讓65歲的員工留下而且也需要有檢測的機制專門定期的關心高齡者的工作狀態另外高齡者退休以後的收入如果不足以負擔他的生活費的話"},{"start":112.445,"end":140.388,"text":"應該要規範想想想繼續留下來工作卻被強迫退休者的問題這個問題其實知識體大另外有人說其實應該參考這個南韓或者是說其他的國家我們要政府要定一個鼓勵的政策這個鼓勵的政策要鼓勵企業僱用一定比例的中高齡的勞工"},{"start":141.068,"end":159.807,"text":"那他雇佣到一定比例以後呢我們給他獎勵而不是現在說63、64歲到了借齡要退了才給獎勵這樣子可能會鼓勵這樣的企業可能這樣政策方向或許可以是我們下一次的這個政策檢討的時候要討論比較好的比較務實的啦你覺得呢"},{"start":164.861,"end":191.113,"text":"跟委員報告的確其實現在很多企業都在講這個缺工那我們在幾乎每一次的跟企業的座談也都跟他們提及其實恐怕未來中高齡的勞工占我們的整體人力的重要性只會越來越提高我自己感覺其實也越來越多企業其實接受這個看法的確我覺得接受這個看法而且願意在中高齡勞工上面"},{"start":191.653,"end":213.843,"text":"去多做投入跟嘗試的企業我覺得越來越多但是我覺得政府要拿出政策手段來因為這個OECD在2023年的時候指出人工智慧的導入在性別年齡和薪資上都有具體的影響效應那特別是性別上面是女性是較顯著那年齡上面就中高齡所受到的衝擊是影響最嚴重的"},{"start":216.484,"end":238.619,"text":"所以在薪資變動上是很明顯的對年輕族群來講AI的導入是對年輕族群有益他的薪資或許會提升但是呢中高齡和年輕人可能會兩極化M型化在這種狀況裡面我們需要政府的政策手段出來而政府的政策手段我要引進最近104的幾個報導幾個調查104他們最新發布了2025年超高齡社會企業"},{"start":246.064,"end":258.445,"text":"人才他永續的新思維白皮書在這個裡面呢他們2025年你看那個數據2025年企業友善中高齡職缺的只有28%"},{"start":261.42,"end":278.933,"text":"企業普遍認為 聘僱中高齡的最大難題是薪資過高請問你對聘僱中高齡 你遇到哪些困難企業遇到覺得 這個中高齡年資升了 漲了薪水都比年輕人還要高所以他們普遍認為 勞動成本高"},{"start":281.255,"end":294.381,"text":"但是他們標示 而且擔心標示了中高齡在虛空的廣告上去標示說我們歡迎中高齡的話他們認為說會影響年輕人的應徵的意願 那事實上"},{"start":301.804,"end":323.323,"text":"中高齡求職就一般的來看我們從企業端他覺得如果我在求職廣告上面求徵員工的廣告上面寫了我歡迎二度就業好像年輕人就不來了可是我們從勞工的立場來看這個民調他們也做民調了104也做民調了政府沒有做的104都在做了我認為"},{"start":324.324,"end":346.43,"text":"這本來都是政府應該要實際上去協助和去做的調查真正的勞工在想什麼年輕的勞工在想什麼真正的勞工你去找工作的時候最先考慮到的是什麼年輕人並不是思考到說我不想要跟中高齡一起工作所有的勞工不管是哪個年紀他們第一個想到說我工作的地點是我第一的需求51.9%"},{"start":348.351,"end":369.743,"text":"但是第二個他們的需求其實講的是說我的薪資要可以得到多少所以在這裡啊這裡面數據沒有列出來是93.7%的年輕人正向的看待中立的看待標示歡迎中高齡的企業的求這個不是求職的徵才"},{"start":373.425,"end":398.444,"text":"所以企業都覺得說他們過去的那種概念其實是錯誤的可能錯估了求職者的心聲而錯失了中高齡的人才這是我第一點要講的第二點呢我國50歲以上的各年齡層的勞參率你知道普遍低於南韓美國日本和新加坡部長"},{"start":399.625,"end":406.176,"text":"我國在這個50歲以上的勞參率是多少應該是大概50出頭53吧53.54"},{"start":413.345,"end":438.378,"text":"你知道日本日本和新加坡在45歲到64歲勞參率仍然有八成45歲到64歲人家是80我們是6767.2這個但是呢如果在65歲以上65歲以上你知道日本是多少新加坡是多少嗎65歲以上應該還有20幾以上"},{"start":441.721,"end":461.386,"text":"20幾 新加坡還32.5而台灣只有多少9.9 10沒有錯所以這種狀況裡面我們看到勞保財務惡化但是呢政府也從來沒有去提到說對提高中高齡就業率他也是一種方法"},{"start":462.529,"end":485.104,"text":"那個跟我說明其實我們在中高齡的就業的專法通過以後其實很多計畫都開始實施而且其實也蠻有成果的其實這幾年也蠻有成果的那你現在告訴我你們具體的政策有哪些有成果的有成果的因為我剛才看到的數據也是最近的113年去年的"},{"start":486.743,"end":506.893,"text":"報告委員其實我們有一個在專法通過之後我們有一個正位中高齡跟高齡者的三年的專案計畫那我們都是滾動檢討那我們目標就是每年要協助12萬人投入就業職場那對不起是人次12萬人那我想我們會朝這個目標持續的努力好沒關係你這樣講我也聽不懂"},{"start":508.914,"end":527.799,"text":"但是我就拿你們自己去年的數據113年中高齡及高齡的統計113年中高齡及高齡男女的失業人數各為6.4和4.3所謂的失業人數是他有就業意願65歲以上不是中高齡和高齡"},{"start":528.699,"end":553.82,"text":"他還有就業的意願可是男女加起來還10萬人以上那個失業率呢還是2點幾%平均起來男女加起來是2%以上而且我們看到女性的失業的狀況還比男性還要更嚴重因為女性容易因為家庭因素提前離開職場但是他很想重回返職場可是他的限制很多"},{"start":555.521,"end":579.298,"text":"這種狀況裡面是這張圖嗎是這張圖所以這種狀況裡面中高齡婦女友善環境對他們講是最迫切的需求所以你們說你們的政策端出來我們就不知道說跟103年來比跟10年前來比去年的統計的數字103年跟10年女性中高齡的失業人數還增加了2萬人"},{"start":582.597,"end":587.041,"text":"2萬人時間前女性的這個失業人數45到64歲是23000人到113年是43000人蛤"},{"start":596.316,"end":611.308,"text":"所以你們說你們的政策做得很不錯我不是說不錯或者是說不需要再改善不是這個意思我是說其實這幾年因為之前那個中高齡的專法修了以後其實很多計畫在推廣那也包括"},{"start":613.069,"end":629.758,"text":"所以計畫推廣最終一定要落實在一個數據上面有意願工作卻找不到工作的那他的失業率應該要下降啊人數應該減少啊可是我們113年還比103年還多兩萬其實不是多兩萬是多一倍多一倍"},{"start":631.258,"end":652.666,"text":"我們是看到比率上面的勞參率是有提高但是就實際的絕對性的數字的話我們可以來再看一下他之所以現在呈現在委員資料裡面的原因是什麼我要再講104人力銀行的數據近三年你知道整體的勞動市場已經供小於需求了供給小於需求只缺多於這個求職者"},{"start":653.906,"end":678.46,"text":"那企業要因應這種就業勞動力的結構上的轉變其實應該逐步的去開啟這個中高齡人才的門在這種狀況裡面你看得出來這個中高齡友善企業率與友善職缺率你看友善企業率從49變成54友善職缺率他其實"},{"start":679.48,"end":688.886,"text":"他已經盡量再友善了這個比例也增加了5%可是他提供出來的職缺只成長了4%所以在這種狀況裡面45歲以上求職者的這個"},{"start":696.191,"end":724.61,"text":"標示說我們要歡迎45歲以上來求職的企業的比例從113年49提升到114年的54%這個已經是專法通過了看起來他好像很重視中高齡的這個重要性了不過實際上在願意這個求採的招募資訊當中公開標注歡迎中高齡的職缺的仍然不到三成"},{"start":726.351,"end":751.168,"text":"然后仅有33%的企业会明确在求财的说明当中讲出说欢迎中高龄或二度就业这种友善其实是很难得到的专法过了其实也没有所以我们看得到调查的数据显示中高龄的族群平均每个月主动应征的人数在近三年成长了34.4%"},{"start":754.349,"end":757.533,"text":"你看每個月成長了34.4%從112年的6.1萬人到114年的8.2萬人"},{"start":765.013,"end":786.272,"text":"這明顯的沒有反映到中高齡的勞產率就是說即便中高齡的勞工他已經比起過去更願意主動應徵學習但是呢這個東西有沒有對照到提供機會做明明就是工作職缺很多找不到人可是這些中高齡"},{"start":787.173,"end":809.13,"text":"仍然在那裡因為年齡的歧視所以就找不到工作然後65歲以上的高齡者甚至被邊緣化然後中高齡每個月主痛應徵的人數三年內大幅成長但勞參率有改善嗎45到65改善一點多少點"},{"start":812.577,"end":818.627,"text":"成長多少啦4%那問題是雇主端聚用呢"},{"start":819.558,"end":842.957,"text":"其實從你剛才的數字可以看出兩件事情第一個中高齡願意求職的人數也在增加那有戰職缺的數字其實也有在增加那只是這兩個之間的增加當然我們覺得我們還有一些東西比例上還有落差對我們可以做得更好那裡面有幾件事情第一個是我們現在很重視比方說確實很多中高齡跟企業都跟我們說他們其實需要更多職務在設計的資源"},{"start":845.319,"end":867.308,"text":"那植物在設計的資源讓其實讓很多的職缺他可以更友善於實際上面遇到中高因為他可能身體上面他比較難負重或者是各種在這個職場的情境裡面他需要多一點的幫忙所以你們的職業訓練的對象是不是要有一部分的資源甚至更大的資源要從訓練這個年輕人然後要播出來給中高"},{"start":872.33,"end":885.893,"text":"甚至65歲以上當然所以你的政策上對應出來了嗎尤其是我們希望能夠把職業在職務在設計的部分做得能夠更細更細膩因為不同的行業可能會有不同職業職務在設計的專業的know-how在你們的職業訓練裡面裡面你們的課程的改變中高齡的參與人數有成長嗎跟委員說明我剛才說的職務在設計不是等同於職業訓練我知道對那"},{"start":901.636,"end":921.978,"text":"那高齡者目前其实是有专班的那只是没有我就问你说你专班的设计上有成长吗服务的人次有成长吗我们可以来再调一下因为你讲的很正确也很好听可是我们必须要落实在职训上面具体的课程上面人次参加的人次上面"},{"start":922.338,"end":948.351,"text":"我們可以來調相關的數字但不管是職業訓練或職務再設計都希望我們藉由這些具體的方法可以媒合更多現在有就業意願的中高齡進入到其實是有意願開放給中高齡的這些職缺對我現在看你官方的統計主計總署在人力運用上面中高齡113年5月中高齡和高齡失業者未未遇工作機會所遭遇的困難你知道"},{"start":948.971,"end":977.807,"text":"他们陈述的就是年龄限制大家对45岁以上甚至是将近65岁他们都有很大的年龄上的歧视所以真的是很困难然后大家企业也有固有的成见企业说欢迎中高龄会吓走年轻人但是我们看得到就是说年轻人认为这样的做法是加分的负面是极少的所以我们还看到2025年人资FBI调查也指出"},{"start":978.867,"end":1002.944,"text":"僅招募40歲以下的求職者的企業平均要71.8天才能找到合適的人才如果你開放了40歲以上的求職者同時開放他平均可以縮短52天平均招募的天數縮短28%顯示僱用中高齡更能有效率的補足人力缺口"},{"start":1004.124,"end":1022.51,"text":"所以在這種狀況裡面我們真的希望說依據你們自己的統計中高齡及高齡統計你們也看到女性在中高齡現在因為她的再就業她沒人要用她只能從事什麼都能只能從事較低技術層次之類的大概有七成"},{"start":1025.171,"end":1047.665,"text":"就低技術職類將近68.75%女性只能去做這種工作男性就以生產操作及勞力工124萬佔了42.1%最多女性以服務及銷售工作人員54.3萬人生產操作和勞力工女性也佔了48萬人"},{"start":1049.326,"end":1067.283,"text":"所以我們看得到就是說中高齡七成都集中在低技術的職類代表他的門檻被拒絕真的是他想要再進入職場真的就是被拒到他只能進入那個最低薪的勞動條件最差的"},{"start":1067.984,"end":1092.473,"text":"所以這種狀況我們在一直講說你要去改變這個結構性或者是真的不符合企業所需人才上的問題你的執訓你的職業的轉職的能力然後你的課程你未來要怎麼去設計一個更友善的這個都不容忽視要有數據要有KPI讓我們看得見"},{"start":1095.154,"end":1122.78,"text":"我們現在看到是勞資雙方都有往中高齡這邊去禁用或者是去求職的意願但我們也覺得在這個趨勢之下我們應該更大力的拿政策的資源來去推進這是完全同意的我一開始就跟你講不是只有在雇用而是留用留用是一開始我就跟你講你要留用他如果留用65歲以上留用了以後我有什麼獎勵案鼓勵是應該是有那你有什麼獎勵鼓勵政策有"},{"start":1124.13,"end":1151.638,"text":"我們有繼續在僱傭的獎勵啊 什麼獎勵獎勵也要 也要人家實用啊 看得到 吃得到或者是真的可以造成誘因啊而不是為不足道啊啊 什麼 你說有 有什麼針對借齡退休的我們鼓勵僱主繼續僱傭借退的勞工那獎勵12個月每個月13000元的多少人次來申請"},{"start":1154.799,"end":1181.675,"text":"113年度是2000餘2000餘案那一年65歲退休多少人每年65歲以上借齡退休的多少人64歲借齡退休不知道我們就是沒關係你去把它調查出來讓我們看一下這個政策的有效性需不需要再擴大如果有效的話需不需要再擴大"},{"start":1183.188,"end":1187.636,"text":"好OK好謝謝好謝謝林淑芬委員發言接下來請"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:38:11.230000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:38:12.711000+08:00","text":"謝謝主席，是不是請洪部長？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-17T11:38:12.711000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:38:12.972000+08:00","text":"有請洪部長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:38:12.972000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-17T11:38:13.972000+08:00","text":"林委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:38:12.972000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:38:39.809000+08:00","text":"部長，超高齡社會來臨，少子化、勞動力不足也是一個問題，但勞動力高齡化的危機也是不容忽視，我們要問的是政府和企業準備好了嗎？","quality":0.982},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:38:40.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:38:52.755000+08:00","text":"辛炳隆教授有提出來，他說上一次勞基法修法強制退休的規定，修法只做了半套，因為我們允許勞雇雙方協商可以再延後。","quality":0.92},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:38:54.275000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:39:21.322000+08:00","text":"他們認為其實政府應該增加幾個鼓勵留任的機制，協助企業不要只用年齡作為退休與否的判斷基礎；強制退休的規定還會造成老人貧窮，因為高齡者被強制退休以後，你知道的，再度就業事實上找到的工作收入都會低很多。","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:39:22.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:39:50.861000+08:00","text":"在這種狀況之下，他們提到的第一個就是，不應該因為年齡設限，而應該要訂出留任65歲以後的員工，因為我們的修法是雙方要協議，雙方如果沒有協議的話，還是要被強制退休，其實我們應該要教企業如何評估讓65歲的員工留下，而且也需要有檢測的機制，專門定期關心高齡者的工作狀態。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:39:50.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:40:06.253000+08:00","text":"另外，高齡者退休以後的收入如果不足以負擔他的生活費，應該要規範，要思考想繼續留下來工作卻被強迫退休者的問題，這個問題其實茲事體大。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:40:07.534000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:40:40.063000+08:00","text":"另外，有人說應該參考南韓或是其他國家，政府要訂一個鼓勵的政策，這個鼓勵的政策要鼓勵企業僱用一定比例的中高齡勞工，僱用到一定比例以後，我們給它獎勵，而不是說63、64歲到了、屆齡要退了才給獎勵，這樣子可能會鼓勵企業這樣的政策方向。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:40:40.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:40:43.786000+08:00","text":"這或許是我們下一次政策檢討時可以討論的，是比較好、比較務實的啦，你覺得呢？","quality":0.848},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:40:48.861000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:41:06.109000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，的確，其實現在很多企業都在講缺工，我們幾乎在每次跟企業的座談裡面也都跟他們提及，恐怕未來中高齡勞工占我們整體人力的重要性只會越來越提高。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:41:06.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:41:19.095000+08:00","text":"我自己感覺也有越來越多的企業接受這個看法，願意在中高齡勞工的部分多做投入跟嘗試的企業，我覺得越來越多。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:41:19.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:41:21.916000+08:00","text":"但是我覺得政府要拿出政策手段來……","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:41:21.916000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-17T11:41:22.916000+08:00","text":"是，當然。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:41:21.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:41:42.926000+08:00","text":"因為OECD在2023年的時候指出，人工智慧的導入，在性別、年齡和薪資上都有具體的影響效應，特別是性別上面是女性較顯著，年齡上面就是中高齡所受到的衝擊是影響最嚴重的，所以在薪資變動上是很明顯的。","quality":0.988},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:41:43.787000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:41:59.157000+08:00","text":"對年輕族群來講，AI的導入對年輕族群有益，他的薪資或許會提升，但是中高齡和年輕人可能會兩極化、M型化，在這種狀況之下，我們需要政府的政策手段出來。","quality":0.97},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:41:59.157000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:42:42.913000+08:00","text":"而政府的政策手段，我要引進最近104的幾個調查，104最新發布了2025超高齡社會企業人才永續的新思維白皮書，你看這個數據，2025年企業友善中高齡職缺的只有28%，企業普遍認為，聘僱中高齡的最大難題是薪資過高，對於聘僱中高齡，請問企業遇到哪些困難，企業遇到覺得中高齡年資升了、漲了，薪水都比年輕人還要高，所以他們普遍認為勞動成本高。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:42:45.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:42:58.321000+08:00","text":"但是他們擔心在需工廣告上標示歡迎中高齡的話，會影響年輕人的應徵意願。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:42:58.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:43:18.635000+08:00","text":"事實上，一般來看，這是從企業端，它覺得如果在求職廣告、徵員工的廣告上面寫了歡迎二度就業，好像年輕人就不來了。","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:43:19.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:43:34.946000+08:00","text":"可是我們從勞工的立場來看，104也做民調了，政府沒有做的，104都在做了，我認為這本來都是政府應該要實際上去協助和去做的調查，真正的勞工在想什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:43:34.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:43:36.827000+08:00","text":"年輕的勞工在想什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:43:36.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:43:40.988000+08:00","text":"真正的勞工去找工作的時候最先考慮到的是什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:43:40.988000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:43:58.114000+08:00","text":"年輕人並不是思考到我不想要跟中高齡一起工作，所有的勞工，不管哪個年紀，他們第一個想到的是，工作的地點是第一個需求，有51.9%；而第二個，他們的需求其實是薪資可以到多少。","quality":0.932},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:43:58.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:44:13.723000+08:00","text":"所以在這裡面數據沒有列出來的是93.7%的年輕人正向看待、中立看待標示歡迎中高齡企業的徵才。","quality":0.976},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:44:17.425000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:44:31.796000+08:00","text":"所以企業過去的那種概念其實是錯誤的，可能錯估了求職者的心聲，而錯失了中高齡的人才，這是我第一點要講的。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:44:32.517000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:44:41.664000+08:00","text":"第二點，我國50歲以上各年齡層的勞參率，你知道普遍低於南韓、美國、日本和新加坡。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:44:42.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:44:47.031000+08:00","text":"部長，我國在50歲以上的勞參率是多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:44:48.513000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:44:50.156000+08:00","text":"應該是大概百分之五十出頭，53%、54%。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:44:57.345000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:45:21.477000+08:00","text":"你知道日本和新加坡在45歲到64歲的勞參率仍然有八成，人家是80%，我們是67.2%；但如果是65歲以上，你知道日本是多少、新加坡是多少嗎？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:45:21.918000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:45:22.358000+08:00","text":"應該還有百分之二十幾以上。","quality":0.583},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:45:25.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:45:29.722000+08:00","text":"百分之二十幾，新加坡還32.5%，而臺灣只有多少？10%。","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:45:32.183000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:45:32.523000+08:00","text":"9.9%、10%，沒有錯。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:45:32.523000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:45:45.366000+08:00","text":"所以在這種狀況裡面，我們看到勞保財務惡化，但是政府也從來沒有提到提高中高齡就業率也是一種方法。","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:45:46.849000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:45:55.935000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，在中高齡業專法通過以後，我們有很多計畫都開始實施，而且也滿有成果的，其實這幾年也滿有成果的。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:45:56.155000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:46:09.084000+08:00","text":"那你現在告訴我你們具體政策有成果的有哪些，因為我剛才看到的數據也是最近的，113年、去年的。","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"黃署長齡玉","start":"2025-11-17T11:46:10.743000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:46:30.353000+08:00","text":"報告委員，在專法通過之後，我們有一個針對中高齡跟高齡者的三年專案計畫，我們都是滾動檢討，目標就是每年要協助12萬人投入就業職場，對不起，是人次，12萬人，我想我們會朝這個目標持續努力。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:46:30.533000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:46:30.873000+08:00","text":"好，沒關係，你這樣講，我也聽不懂。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:46:32.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:47:03.468000+08:00","text":"但是我就拿你們自己去年的數據，113年中高齡及高齡的統計，113年中高齡及高齡男女的失業人數各為6.4%和4.3%，所謂的失業人數是他有就業意願，中高齡和高齡還有就業的意願，可是男女加起來還是10萬人以上，失業率還是百分之二點幾，男女加起來平均是2%以上。","quality":0.916},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:47:04.269000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:47:17.800000+08:00","text":"而且我們看到，女性的失業狀況還比男性更嚴重，女性容易因為家庭因素提前離開職場，他很想重返職場，可是他的限制很多。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:47:19.521000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:47:29.068000+08:00","text":"在這種狀況裡面，對於中高齡婦女，友善環境對他們來講是最迫切的需求。","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:47:29.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:47:43.278000+08:00","text":"你們說你們的政策端出來，我們就不知道跟103年來比、跟10年前來比，去年的統計數字，女性中高齡的失業人數還增加了2萬人！","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:47:47.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:47:50.901000+08:00","text":"10年前45歲到64歲女性的失業人數是2萬3,000人，到113年是4萬3,000人。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:48:00.316000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:48:02.798000+08:00","text":"所以你們說你們的政策做得很不錯，我就不知道了。","quality":0.762},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:48:04.579000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:48:07.522000+08:00","text":"委員，我不是說不錯或是不需要再改善，不是這個意思。","quality":0.864},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:48:07.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:48:15.288000+08:00","text":"我是說因為之前有關中高齡的專法修了以後，其實這幾年有很多計畫在推廣，也包括現在在部裡面……","quality":0.707},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:48:17.710000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:48:32.657000+08:00","text":"計畫推廣最終一定要落實在數據上面，有意願工作卻找不到工作的，這部分的失業率應該要下降，人數應該減少，可是113年還比103多2萬，其實不是多2萬，是多一倍，2萬3,000人跟4萬3,000人。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:48:35.258000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:48:45.482000+08:00","text":"我們是看到比率上面的勞參率是有提高，但是就實際的、絕對性的數字，我們可以再來看一下之所以現在呈現在委員資料裡面的原因是什麼。好。","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:48:45.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:49:06.951000+08:00","text":"我要再講104人力銀行的數據，你知道近三年整體的勞動市場已經供給小於需求了，職缺多於求職者，企業要因應這種勞動力結構上的轉變，其實應該逐步開啟中高齡人才的門。","quality":0.93},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:49:06.951000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:49:31.325000+08:00","text":"在這種狀況裡面你看得出來，關於中高齡友善企業率與友善職缺率，你看友善企業率從49%變成54%，友善職缺率……它其實已經儘量在友善了，這個比例也增加了5%，可是它提供出來的職缺只成長了4%。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:49:31.325000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:50:25.741000+08:00","text":"所以在這種狀況裡面，有關標示歡迎45歲以上來求職的的比例，從113年的49%提升到114年的54%，這個已經是專法通過了，看起來它好像很重視中高齡的重要性了；不過實際上，願意在求才招募資訊當中公開標註歡迎中高齡職缺的仍然不到三成，僅有33%的企業會明確在求才說明當中講出歡迎中高齡或二度就業，這種友善其實是很難得到的，專法過了其實也沒有。","quality":0.814},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:50:26.222000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:50:41.513000+08:00","text":"所以我們看到調查的數據顯示，中高齡的族群平均每個月主動應徵的人數在近三年成長了34.4%，你看每個月成長了34.4%，從112年的6.1萬人到114年的8.2萬人。","quality":0.806},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:50:49.013000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:20.780000+08:00","text":"這明顯沒有反應到中高齡的勞參率，就是說，即便中高齡的勞工已經比起過去更願意主動應徵學習，但是這個東西有沒有對照到提供機會的部分，明明就是工作職缺很多、找不到人，可是這些中高齡仍然因為年齡的歧視就找不到工作，然後65歲以上的高齡者甚至被邊緣化。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:21.921000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:29.587000+08:00","text":"雖然中高齡每個月主動應徵的人數在3年內大幅成長，但勞參率有改善嗎？","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:29.587000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:29.587000+08:00","text":"45%到65%？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:31.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:33.130000+08:00","text":"改善一點。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:36.577000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:37.338000+08:00","text":"成長多少？","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:40.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:40.424000+08:00","text":"4%，快5%。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:41.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:42.607000+08:00","text":"問題是雇主端拒用呢？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:43.558000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:56.749000+08:00","text":"委員，其實你從你剛才的數字可以看出兩件事情，第一個，中高齡願意求職的人數也在增加，而友善職缺的數字其實也有在增加，只是這兩個之間的增加，當然我們覺得我們還有一些東西可以做得更好……","quality":0.854},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:56.889000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:57.870000+08:00","text":"比例上還有落差。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:58.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:51:59.171000+08:00","text":"對，我們可以做得更好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:51:59.912000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:52:06.937000+08:00","text":"裡面有幾件事情，第一個是我們現在很重視，比方確實很多中高齡跟企業都跟我們說，他們其實需要更多職務再設計的資源。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:52:10.139000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:52:22.845000+08:00","text":"職務再設計的資源其實讓很多職缺可以更友善於實際上遇到的狀況，因為他可能身體上面比較難負重，或者是在各種職場的情境裡面需要多一點幫忙，這部分我們應該多做。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:52:23.725000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:52:37.830000+08:00","text":"那很好，所以你們職業訓練的對象是不是要有一部分的資源、甚至更大的資源，從訓練年輕人撥出來給中高齡、甚至65歲以上？當然！","quality":0.904},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:52:38.110000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:52:40.011000+08:00","text":"所以你在政策上對應出來了嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:52:40.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:52:48.493000+08:00","text":"尤其是我們希望能夠把職務再設計的部分做得更細膩，因為不同的行業可能會有不同職務再設計的專業跟know-how。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:52:48.573000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:52:49.073000+08:00","text":"所以你們的職業訓練跟你們的課程改變，中高齡的參與人數有成長嗎？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:52:49.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:52:49.693000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，我剛才說的職務再設計不等同於職業訓練。","quality":0.957},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:52:49.693000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:52:49.833000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:52:49.873000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:53:08.879000+08:00","text":"對，高齡者目前其實是有專班的，只是……","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:53:09.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:53:11.883000+08:00","text":"沒有，我就問你說，專班的設計上有成長嗎？","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:53:13.284000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:53:14.405000+08:00","text":"服務的人次有成長嗎？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:53:15.246000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:53:16.247000+08:00","text":"我們可以再來調一下相關的數字。","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:53:16.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:53:19.170000+08:00","text":"你講得很正確、也很好聽，可是我們……","quality":0.643},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:53:19.170000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-17T11:53:20.492000+08:00","text":"我們可以來調……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:53:20.492000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:53:25.958000+08:00","text":"我們必須要落實在職訓上面、具體的課程上面、參加的人次上面。","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:53:26.338000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:53:39.004000+08:00","text":"我們可以來調相關的數字，但不管是職業訓練或職務再設計，希望藉由這些具體的方法，可以媒合更多現在有就業意願的中高齡進入有意願開放給中高齡的這些職缺。","quality":1},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:53:39.584000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:54:04.457000+08:00","text":"對，我現在看官方的統計，主計總處在人力運用上面的資料，113年5月「中高齡及高齡失業者未遇工作機會所遭遇困難」，他們陳述的就是年齡限制，大家對45歲以上，甚至是將近65歲，他們都遭受很大的年齡上歧視，所以真的是很困難。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:54:05.278000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:54:16.264000+08:00","text":"然後企業也有固有的成見，企業說歡迎中高齡會嚇走年輕人，但是我們看到的就是，年輕人反而認為這樣的作法是加分的、負面是極少的。","quality":0.607},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:54:17.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:54:46.924000+08:00","text":"我們還看到2025年人資F.B.I.調查也指出，僅招募40歲以下求職者的企業，平均要71.8天才能找到合適的人才；如果同時開放了40歲以上的求職者，平均可以縮短52天，平均招募的天數縮短28%，顯示僱用中高齡更能有效率的補足人力缺口。","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:54:48.124000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:55:04.249000+08:00","text":"所以在這種狀況裡面，我們真的希望……依據你們自己的中高齡及高齡統計，你們也看到女性在中高齡當中，因為他的再就業沒人要僱用，只能從事什麼？","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:55:04.249000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:55:15.715000+08:00","text":"都只能從事較低技術層次職類的，大概有七成，低技術職類將近68.75%，女性只能去做這種工作。","quality":0.974},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:55:16.276000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:55:31.645000+08:00","text":"男性就以「生產操作及勞力工」124萬，占了42.1%最多；女性在「服務及銷售工作人員」54.3萬人，「生產操作及勞力工」也占了48萬人。","quality":0.915},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:55:33.326000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:55:51.263000+08:00","text":"所以我們看得到，中高齡七成都集中在低技術職類，代表他的門檻以及被拒絕，他想要再進入職場真的被拒到只能進入最低薪的、勞動條件最差的。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:55:52.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:56:14.973000+08:00","text":"針對這種狀況我們才會一直講，你要去改變結構性或者是不符合企業所需人才上的問題，你的職訓、你的職業轉職能力、你的課程未來要怎麼設計一個更友善的，這個都不容忽視。是。","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:56:14.973000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:56:16.473000+08:00","text":"要有數據、要有KPI讓我們看得見。","quality":1},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:56:19.154000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:56:31.477000+08:00","text":"我們現在看到的是，勞資雙方都有往中高齡這邊進用或者是求職的意願，當然我們也覺得在這個趨勢之下，我們應該更大力地拿政策資源去推進，這是完全同意的部分。","quality":0.899},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:56:31.737000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:56:36.138000+08:00","text":"我一開始就跟你講，不是只有在僱用，而是留用，留用！是。","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:56:36.378000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:56:43.659000+08:00","text":"一開始我就跟你講要留用，如果留用了65歲以上，留用了以後我有什麼獎勵和鼓勵？是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:56:44.739000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:56:46.260000+08:00","text":"應該是有，那你有什麼獎勵、鼓勵政策？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃署長齡玉","start":"2025-11-17T11:56:48.130000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:56:50.111000+08:00","text":"我們有繼續再僱用的獎勵。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:56:52.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:56:52.511000+08:00","text":"怎麼獎勵？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:56:52.511000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:04.035000+08:00","text":"獎勵也要人家實用，看得到、吃得到，或者是真的可以造成誘因，而不是微不足道啊！什麼？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:04.035000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:05.435000+08:00","text":"你說有，有什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉組長玉儀","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:05.435000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:14.497000+08:00","text":"針對屆齡退休的，我們鼓勵雇主繼續僱用屆退的勞工，獎勵12個月，每個月1萬3,000元的……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:14.718000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:15.638000+08:00","text":"多少人次來申請？","quality":1},{"speaker":"劉組長玉儀","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:18.799000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:21.861000+08:00","text":"113年度是兩千餘案……","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:22.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:25.223000+08:00","text":"1年65歲退休多少人年？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"劉組長玉儀","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:25.223000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:29.986000+08:00","text":"屆退這個部分我們要再……","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:29.986000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:32.547000+08:00","text":"每年65歲以上屆齡退休的多少人？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"劉組長玉儀","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:34.068000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:34.529000+08:00","text":"64歲屆齡退休的……","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"洪部長申翰","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:34.529000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:36.810000+08:00","text":"我們查一下數據。","quality":0},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:36.810000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:45.655000+08:00","text":"不知道，沒關係，你去調查出來，讓我們看一下這個政策的有效性需不需要再擴大，如果有效的話，需不需要再擴大。是。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"林委員淑芬","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:48.070000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:49.612000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:50.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:51.195000+08:00","text":"謝謝林淑芬委員發言。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-11-17T11:57:51.496000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-11-17T11:57:51.636000+08:00","text":"接下來請鄭天財委員發言。","quality":0.364}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}