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堅守崗位"},{"start":169.779,"end":181.839,"text":"後端的我們所有的一些該要究責的程序跟機關也沒有跟上啊那平白的我就舉例那請問這些錢消耗的是誰的錢人民的錢"},{"start":184.929,"end":213.383,"text":"另外我也看到省暨部也揪出勞動部5年以來濫用就業安定基金7224萬包括許民春開演唱會謝怡龍辦公室裝潢都被省暨部認定是難以驗核履約結果林日公及導演團隊所拍的影片最後這些叫不服用途關聯性不高省暨部也都做了很多的監督但是我想請問"},{"start":215.164,"end":220.928,"text":"審計部 我也還是覺得很可惜啊即便審計部抓到這些東西 請問最後這些錢還是誰出這個財政部 那個勞動部還在逐項查明可能只有輸入 當然我已經通知他像現在法院在判 也會默入所得你要去申請還回那個就業安定基金我們也在 誰還"},{"start":241.923,"end":261.228,"text":"這個是默住所得本來繳入國庫嘛但是這是安置基金的錢安置基金是來自比較像一些輸能的人繳的那些這個要回到公益裡面去對 好 我覺得非常好起碼還因為審計部前面有做前端"},{"start":262.304,"end":282.402,"text":"不然後面這些可能都沒有嘛所以這是為什麼我跟人特別講就是說基本上我對於審計部過去的一些表現我覺得相對的是肯定的但是我們的後段政府單位我真的是覺得好像是前面努力把關後面努力放人"},{"start":283.342,"end":304.833,"text":"那之前你也看到那電鍋案嘛 對不對電鍋案也是啊 32元的電鍋被判刑可是超市雞蛋5億好像不用人負責一樣那更糟糕的是什麼南門中計市場案 沈局長你應該知道這個案子嘛知道 這個案子實際上是我最早最早質詢 也最早開記者會"},{"start":307.285,"end":331.876,"text":"他當時赤字1.8億用不到四年終極市場明明可以作為東門終極市場使用嘛結果當時就是蘇發布說要蓋辦公室他不讓台北市政府繼續租啊就把這1.8億的這個終極市場拆掉了拆掉以後 請問沈機長知道發生什麼事嗎您知道吧 對不對蘇發布跟大家講 沒有 我不蓋了 辦公室我不蓋了"},{"start":333.376,"end":357.943,"text":"我就問沈記長是不是赤裸裸浪費那1.8億公帑做公務員我是希望站在國家整體立場來看任何事情就可以見氣情見對啊 那我就講說光這件事情就看到說但我還是謝謝沈記部啦沈記部對速發部的所謂的一直在搞速發部變辦公室發展部的問題"},{"start":359.485,"end":384.642,"text":"就也說過速發部解決辦公空間不足要外租大樓又限定在台北市中正區然後租下火車站前的星光大樓到去年底總共18個月的租金就要將近7000萬而速發部說明裝修費用是3400萬所以要花1.4億實際上省紀部也認為台北新北早就生活圈嘛對不對"},{"start":385.723,"end":407.704,"text":"你沒有一定要陷在台北市中正區啊那我也不知道為什麼今天說真的還是一句話我也肯定省進部把問題點出來零零種種包括說我最近踢爆中油三接工程的那個福報的弊案福報金額牽涉到150億之多這些其實也都是人民的納稅錢啊"},{"start":410.639,"end":423.149,"text":"點點滴滴我是要勉勵我們審計部一定要做好把關最後我就要講但是呢今天我看到政務人員你不要怪這個本席看到這四個字心裡就會開了有點忐忑"},{"start":427.355,"end":454.436,"text":"其實民進黨執政這些年我先從監察院你省進部所屬的上級機關講起你光是監察委員政治辦案比比皆是然後再加上對於所謂民進黨高層像陳忠彥涉及新招待關說這些微私證據監察院也不敢彈劾陳忠彥中選會本來獨立機關表現是如何大家去看看完全沒有獨立機關的立場"},{"start":456.633,"end":483.239,"text":"NCC促轉會現在還有很多的各部會獨立機關都沒被放過那現在問題來了沈記長你們這一次我是很相信你啦但是你們這一次要把這副沈記長做政務任用我還是要請沈記長再多想想怎麼去平息社會各界的疑慮這一點的話其實有些委員有提出非常多的疑慮但我知道翁小英委員有提一個"},{"start":485.105,"end":505.641,"text":"有點像是折衷版啦就是說基本上針對這個所謂的增設的副審計長針對副審計長資格要做很多的一些更多的一些明定有所謂的常務官文官審計官的這些經驗那怎麼樣再做後續的進一步的修法不要讓這種所謂的政治酬庸的這張這個文化"},{"start":507.742,"end":517.619,"text":"也進到審計部 審計部好不容易我覺得到目前為止表現我是肯定的不要讓政治仇恨文化進到審計部好 謝謝我們如果正陸副審計長我們的條件"},{"start":520.486,"end":524.608,"text":"盡量能夠強化他的專業監督還有獨立有困難的話我們剛剛也像那些委員講如果大家還是有疑慮我們盡量強化如果有疑慮有委員也希望說那就改常務但是我是希望能夠強化這個地方來解決這個問題"},{"start":542.375,"end":552.565,"text":"因為這個是中央機關基準法裡面最基本的有一些政務人員大概我做這樣的一個向委員報告謝謝委員主持我們的審計長的開放態度謝謝"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:30:44.029000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:30:44.069000+08:00","text":"有請審計長。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-10T10:30:44.069000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-10T10:30:45.069000+08:00","text":"請陳審計長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:30:45.069000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-10T10:30:46.069000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:30:44.149000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:31:10.175000+08:00","text":"審計長，我先很快地說我的結論，你們有三項訴求，有關要增置實際執行查核的審計人力，本席在這邊表達支持。謝謝。","quality":0.872},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:31:10.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:31:11.756000+08:00","text":"針對審計部之審計官兼處長，職務列簡任十二至十三職等，本席也是支持。謝謝。","quality":0.781},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:31:22.103000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:31:28.965000+08:00","text":"對於這兩個的支持基礎，說真的，我覺得過去對於審計部的表現，本席是肯定的。謝謝。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:31:29.225000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:31:48.695000+08:00","text":"我覺得有實際作用來端正官箴，去查核政府預算，有做到這個功能的話，基本上，審計部要把職等調高、要把員額增加，我覺得這是個有功能的單位，基本上，本席都支持。謝謝。","quality":0.754},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:31:49.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:32:04.443000+08:00","text":"當然，本席對於副審計長是不是要增加，這個我也沒有太大意見，但是要列政務任用，這個部分我個人是有點疑慮，後面我再跟您說。","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:32:04.663000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:32:27.568000+08:00","text":"前面我要先來講講審計部，為什麼我會支持審計部，不管是員額增加、還有職等調增，除了你們列的立法理由之外，我覺得有幾件事情想要請教一下，審計長，超思雞蛋案，審計部的估算，過期蛋耗費冷凍倉儲還有銷毀費用是9,130萬，對不對？","quality":0.853},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:32:27.568000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:32:57.509000+08:00","text":"你們有報告了，加上雞蛋的原採購平均成本是每顆7.6元，整體損失費用高達5億2,997萬餘元，我覺得當時審計部有幫人民來監督超思雞蛋，這一點我要肯定。謝謝。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:32:57.509000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:33:45.518000+08:00","text":"可是你知道結果被控瀆職、圖利等罪的農業部前後全部長、畜牧司前後任司長、畜產會前董事長，最後也都不起訴，我覺得這是一個問題，當然不能怪審計部，我覺得很可惜，審計部前端查到政府浪費，乃至於甚至有一些違反法令的問題，可是後端好像……審計部盡好職務、堅守崗位，而後端一些該要究責的程序跟機關也沒有跟上，平白的……我舉例，請問這些消耗的是誰的錢？","quality":0.96},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:33:45.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:33:45.839000+08:00","text":"人民的錢。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:33:48.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:34:15.482000+08:00","text":"另外，我看到審計部也揪出勞動部五年以來濫用就業安定基金7,224萬，包括許銘春開演唱會、謝宜容辦公室裝潢，都被審計部認定是難以驗核履約結果；補助零日攻擊導演團隊所拍的影片，最後這些叫不符用途、關聯性不高，審計部做了很多監督。","quality":0.828},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:34:16.243000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:34:22.867000+08:00","text":"但是我想請問，審計部，我還是一樣覺得很可惜，即便審計部抓到這些東西，請問最後這些錢還是誰出？","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:34:23.107000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:34:24.928000+08:00","text":"勞動部還在逐項查明，若有私用，我已經通知勞動部，像現在法院在判，也會沒入所得，你要去聲請還回就業安定基金，我們也在……誰還？","quality":0.849},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:34:24.928000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-10T10:34:47.323000+08:00","text":"濫用的人還？","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:34:47.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:34:59.726000+08:00","text":"沒入所得，本來應該要繳入國庫，但是這是安定基金的錢，安定基金是來自像一些失能的人繳的那些……要回到公益去。","quality":0.83},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:01.127000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:07.785000+08:00","text":"對，我覺得非常好，起碼審計部前面有做前端，不然後面那些可能都沒有嘛！","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:08.686000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:26.382000+08:00","text":"所以這是為什麼我剛剛特別講，基本上我對於審計部過去的一些表現，我覺得相對是肯定的，但是我們後端的政府單位，我真的覺得好像是前面努力把關，後面努力放人。","quality":0.942},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:27.542000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:30.424000+08:00","text":"之前你也有看到那電鍋案嘛，對不對？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:30.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:30.824000+08:00","text":"電鍋案也是啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:31.404000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:39.468000+08:00","text":"32元的電鍋被判刑，可是超思雞蛋5億，好像不用人負責一樣，更糟糕的是什麼？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:39.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:42.890000+08:00","text":"南門中繼市場案，審計長應該知道這個案子嘛，對不對？知道。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:44.011000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:45.512000+08:00","text":"這個案子，實際上是我最早……","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:45.512000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:46.692000+08:00","text":"你有在追。","quality":0},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:46.692000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:48.833000+08:00","text":"最早質詢，也是最早開記者會。對。","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:51.985000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:35:56.948000+08:00","text":"當時斥資1.8億，用不到4年的中繼市場，明明可以作為東門中繼市場使用嘛！","quality":0.767},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:35:58.128000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:36:10.033000+08:00","text":"結果當時就是數發部說要蓋辦公室，他不讓臺北市政府繼續租，就把這1.8億的中繼市場拆掉了，拆掉以後，請問審計長知道發生什麼事嗎？","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:36:10.033000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:36:12.314000+08:00","text":"您知道吧，對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:36:12.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:36:14.675000+08:00","text":"數發部跟大家講不蓋了。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:36:14.675000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:36:14.675000+08:00","text":"不要了。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:36:14.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:36:20.917000+08:00","text":"辦公室我不蓋了，我就問審計長，這是不是赤裸裸浪費那1.8億公帑？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:36:21.117000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:36:30.019000+08:00","text":"作為公務員，我是希望站在國家整體立場來看任何事情，就可以捐棄成見。對啊！","quality":0.844},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:36:31.840000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:36:35.221000+08:00","text":"光這件事情就看到……但我還是謝謝審計部。","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:36:36.221000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:37:04.419000+08:00","text":"審計部對數發部所謂的一直在搞數發部變成辦公室發展部的問題，也說過數發部解決辦公空間不足要外租大樓，又限定在臺北市中正區，租下火車站前的新光大樓，到去年底總共18個月，租金就要將近7,000萬，而數發部說裝修費用是3,400萬，所以要花1.4億。","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:37:04.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:37:08.642000+08:00","text":"事實上，審計部也認為，臺北及新北早就是生活圈嘛，對不對？","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:37:09.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:37:11.865000+08:00","text":"沒有一定要限定在臺北市中正區啊！","quality":0.867},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:37:12.766000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:37:19.012000+08:00","text":"我不知道為什麼今天……說真的，我還是一句話，我也肯定審計部把問題點出來。","quality":0.903},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:37:20.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:37:31.684000+08:00","text":"林林總總包括我最近踢爆中油三接工程浮報的弊案，浮報金額牽涉到一百五十億之多，這些其實也都是人民的納稅錢啊！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:37:34.639000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:37:38.202000+08:00","text":"點點滴滴，我是要勉勵我們審計部一定要做好把關。","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:37:38.202000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:37:47.149000+08:00","text":"最後，我就要講，今天我看到政務任用，你不要怪本席，看到這4個字心裡就會開始有點忐忑啦！","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:37:51.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:38:12.872000+08:00","text":"其實，民進黨執政這些年，我先從你審計部所屬的上級機關監察院講起，光是監察委員政治辦案比比皆是，再加上對於所謂民進黨高層，像陳宗彥涉及性招待關說的這些違失證據，監察院也不敢彈劾陳宗彥。","quality":0.869},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:38:12.872000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:38:16.134000+08:00","text":"中選會本來獨立機關，表現是如何？","quality":1},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:38:16.334000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:38:26.574000+08:00","text":"大家去看看，完全沒有獨立機關的立場；NCC、促轉會，還有現在很多各部會的獨立機關都沒被放過。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:38:26.854000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:38:31.195000+08:00","text":"現在問題來了，審計長，你們這一次的修法，我是很相信你啦！","quality":0.792},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:38:32.416000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:38:42.238000+08:00","text":"但是你們這次要把這副審計長做政務任用，我還是要請審計長再多想想，怎麼去平息社會各界疑慮？","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:38:42.238000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:39:18.714000+08:00","text":"這一點其實有些委員有提出非常多的疑慮，我知道翁曉玲委員有提一個有點像是折衷版，基本上，針對所謂增設的副審計長資格，要明定更多一些有常務官、文官、審計官的這些經驗，怎麼樣再做後續進一步修法，不要讓這種所謂政治酬庸的文化也進到審計部，審計部好不容易是我覺得到目前為止的表現是我肯定的，不要讓政治酬庸文化進到審計部。","quality":0.931},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:39:19.355000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:39:20.077000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:39:21.279000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:39:27.767000+08:00","text":"針對政務副審計長，我們明定的條件會儘量能夠強化他的專業監督還有獨立性，有困難的話，剛剛也向一些委員說明，如果大家有疑慮，我們儘量強化，如果還是有疑慮，有委員也希望就改常務。","quality":0.795},{"speaker":"陳審計長瑞敏","start":"2025-12-10T10:39:27.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:39:55.964000+08:00","text":"但是，我是希望能夠強化這個地方來解決這個問題，因為這一個是中央機關基準法裡面最基本的，會要有一些政務人員，以上向委員做這樣的報告，謝謝委員的支持。","quality":0.851},{"speaker":"羅委員智強","start":"2025-12-10T10:39:56.164000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-10T10:39:56.565000+08:00","text":"謝謝我們審計長的開放態度，謝謝。謝謝。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-10T10:39:57.065000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-10T10:39:59.065000+08:00","text":"謝謝羅智強委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-10T10:39:59.365000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-10T10:40:02.507857+08:00","text":"接下來請王義川委員發言。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}