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我們他們還是進行之中對 進行到什麼程度我請那個高處長跟委員報告那廚藝計畫核安會已經審查完成完成了 核二核三都已經廚藝的計畫已經審查完成了對 可是現在要依法規就是台電公司要依法提出環境影響評估的報告對嘛"},{"start":59.28,"end":84.128,"text":"所以还要再提出环境的评估报告好了那目前我还知道最近有很热门的话题就是经济部也是特别提到的核三可能在2028年可以重启也就是再运转所以好像让大家看到核三跟核二又有一丝的一个机会了所以核安会到底会先收到的再运转计划还是除以计划我现在被搞得有点很混乱"},{"start":85.555,"end":88.576,"text":"所以你們他們也送出了廚藝計畫已經完成現在目前在做的評估報告對不對"},{"start":102.563,"end":120.741,"text":"环平报告那同样的他们也有机会因为我们今年五月当中呢就已经就核管法已经修过了还是可以申请这个再运转所以当经济部释放出核二核三可能有机会再运转的时候可能也会再送出再运转的计划报告没错吧"},{"start":121.562,"end":138.838,"text":"目前有收到吗目前还没有所以你们预估到底是废的这个到底是所以我说说像目前政策在怎么样就你们的主管单位来看你们好像只能做一个审查到底要再运转或是真正的除异完全是掌握在经济部的手上我这样的认知没有错吧"},{"start":141.014,"end":151.728,"text":"跟委員說明 如果台電公司依法提出申請那河岸位的職者就依法來審查對 那最後到底是要再運轉 或者是要真正處理是由上面的單位來做決定嗎"},{"start":153.723,"end":179.463,"text":"所有都是如果提出再运转的申请那核安委就审查如果审查都可以符合法规跟安全的要求那依照法规核安委就会核发再运转的部分核发运转执照好 所以说吧目前来说那你认为就像目前经济部长说照国外的经验审查的时程如果要再运转的话可能一年半也有可能到五六年之久那美国是18个月"},{"start":180.123,"end":207.222,"text":"那你个人认为说目前来说核安会应该要审多久如果要再运转以核三来说的话2028年有没有顺利再运转有没有机会再顺利运转2028年有没有机会再顺利运转我想跟韦英报告审查时程有很多因素没关系你不要跟我讲那么多我只问一个因为我们核三五月才除役2028有没有机会再运转"},{"start":209.463,"end":226.526,"text":"如果台電審查報告很完整回覆我們審查意見很快速回應我們現場視察都沒有什麼問題有沒有重大的零件需要更換"},{"start":227.327,"end":243.654,"text":"那当然是有可能对啊因为它5月你们过去就有安检5月才刚除疫所以2028来说的话照这样的时程来看是有机会的不过到底我们核能政策要走到什么程度来说你们目前就只是负责来做一个这个审查而已对不对对"},{"start":244.474,"end":262.105,"text":"好 说实在的我觉得河安会的角色不应该只有是这样子我们现在看一下SMR目前来说的话赖总统表态不排斥核能而且河安会似乎已经开始启动了你们明年要提出四年中长期计划预算八亿要开始来布局SMR没错吧"},{"start":263.745,"end":284.131,"text":"这数目还没有很确定但是你们变了8亿了表示大家已经开始来做这样的一个处理了我们2020年是确定是1亿后年以后还有连续4年的申请所以你们开始启动这个部分我只是告诉组委这个部分来说全世界都已经走在趋势的路上面了"},{"start":284.611,"end":302.998,"text":"你看COP28还有25个国家是属于2050年要实现和能增加三倍的宣言哦还有呢有很多国家跟进而且要达到2050年净零排摊的目标所以各国目前为止你看看我所调列的都是在积极SMR但是呢而且我们根据我们IA"},{"start":304.338,"end":318.485,"text":"IAEA就是原子能总数的这个统计到2024年底全国全球大概有20个国家是投入这个SM2的一个开发所以目前来说的话我们是不是脚步跟国家比起来是慢了一些"},{"start":320.029,"end":335.791,"text":"这方面我们当然会加快对啊你速度已经很慢了而且很多国家都是透过公私协力的方法来做主导所以未来我们有可能寻求美日等国家的一个协助大家共同来做这个开发然后加速它的时程吗"},{"start":337.056,"end":360.368,"text":"我们跟美国和日本的沿路非常密切我们也派人到美国的国家实验室参观他们的研究成果所以你应该知道美国制定新的一个框架它会简化声势的时程而且日本选择的是一个比较传统的方法所以未来我们将采取什么样的方式来做管制我希望你们也能满快做出这样一个研议"},{"start":360.768,"end":388.107,"text":"到底是美国的方式快一点还是日本的传统的方法而且我觉得最重要的是目前为止呢我们有规划要派人到欧美去做一些学习吧这点没有错吧是的但是你要知道我们核能的政策已经费了这么久的时间所有的核工的人才台湾已经很困难了连清大核工都已经改名你们当初所念的科系都已经名字不知道换到哪里去了所以说呢你们目前为止来说而且台电还传出要测材核发处"},{"start":388.707,"end":404.477,"text":"后来呢这整个工程虽然有做了一些的内容的一个调整但是合共的人才没有办法在台湾存留这是一个既定的事实你认为我们的人才有办法赶上未来整个核能全世界的趋势吗你认为以目前的人才的留置来说有机会吗"},{"start":406.041,"end":428.303,"text":"我觉得是在人为了我们就努力的话当然会会会改善我们和和安会也规划国家成成绩的原则研究你们要加快速度已经荒废非常多次的当初引以为傲的这些目前就是整个的核能的政策的错误你现在要重新再建制另外一批人才我只能说速度加快因为这是未来的一个趋势对"},{"start":428.983,"end":445.95,"text":"還有呢我還是要特別台電擺爛的中期暫時儲存的一個設施你們真的一點辦法都沒有嗎你們是他的盒管機關呢你看從過去到現在你們都說要持續要求台電研議中期暫時儲放的一個設施然後要提出具體的規劃的內容來提供給我們非核家園推動的小組來討論有嗎台電有提出來嗎有任何積極的做法嗎你們設施跟他打了行政訴訟還被法院給否決"},{"start":457.734,"end":463.777,"text":"你們是一個監管的機構結果呢現在連這一點權力都沒有難怪台電根本不鳥你們嘛不是嗎跟委員報告齁我們在今年的4月10號其實有新聞給呃那個費額行政費額小組請他們積極的積極然後你能怎麼辦"},{"start":479.204,"end":492.314,"text":"你看行政訴訟訴訟中撤銷裁罰撤銷裁罰你們要求結果這本來就是在法規上面是你們有掌握這樣子一個什麼的權利結果呢2017年應該通過要求台電2025年2月12起"},{"start":496.357,"end":518.715,"text":"启动这个储存设施的部分然后呢2029年要完成这个核废料的一个迁移这都是明文写在那个地方结果呢你们现在只能开发开发结果还被撤销那我所以说我就要请问一下何安慧对于这样的一个所谓的这个储存厂的一个一个设置或者储存厂的迁移你们到底能够发挥什么样的功用"},{"start":519.761,"end":533.099,"text":"你们现有的职权可以发挥什么样的功用所以只能书面纠正缺失继续要求改正是这样子吗这有任何的执行力吗这有办法吗"},{"start":534.286,"end":560.722,"text":"所以说整个能源政策我们就是完全混淆不清到底河岸会先接受到的是一个所谓的再运转的计划还是接到一个除异的计划目前为止你们两个都接收然后一切由上面来然后本来要求你们本来国家的政策里面不管怎么样我们要有一个中期的储存场你们有这样的权责可以要求台电去做台电不做你们就是要求开发开发之后法院认证"},{"start":561.602,"end":571.181,"text":"撤裁所以我想請問荷蘭會的功用到底目前會在哪裡你會不會覺得很無奈主委我真的替你感到很無奈一群專家坐在這個地方國家沒有人要聽你們的專業的建議你不覺得很無奈嗎"},{"start":575.944,"end":591.377,"text":"台电已经设有经济部已经设有那个核废料专责处理机构他要负责这方面的工作我知道可是在权责上面在法规上你要我念给你听吗在法规上面你们是有需要这样的一个功能的只是他们不选你们而已啊不是吗"},{"start":592.625,"end":621.593,"text":"一个最专业的单位里面我们的部分不甩然后呢还告诉我还要另设一个那我们到底在干嘛结床加物啊这次到底走到什么地方去啊何阿蔚是不是可以有一个更积极的作为但是我还是强调这不能怪你们我说实在以你们目前所能够掌控的这样子的可以的不管是胡萝卜还是你的棍子都没有办法所以我只能说是不是无奈果然还是很无奈我也很无奈"},{"start":624.518,"end":631.366,"text":"謝謝柯志仁委員質詢核安衛族官員請回座現在請謝龍介委員質詢"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:11:33+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:11:36.019667+08:00","text":"謝謝召委，請陳主委。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T09:11:36.019667+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:11:39.039333+08:00","text":"請陳主委。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:11:39.039333+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:11:42.059000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:11:42.059000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:11:42.059000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:11:43.621000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:11:51.069000+08:00","text":"請問一下，就你目前的了解，台電是否有提出終止核二、核三的除役計畫，目前的進度是如何？","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:11:51.069000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:11:56.368000+08:00","text":"我說的是除役。","quality":0.167},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:11:56.368000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:11:57.933000+08:00","text":"我沒有收到這方面終止除役的計畫。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:00.239000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:03.507000+08:00","text":"目前兩座核電廠的除役程序進行到什麼地方了？","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:04.468000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:05.769000+08:00","text":"你們還是它的監管單位嘛。","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:06.449000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:10.631000+08:00","text":"對，還是在進行當中。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:11.611000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:12.231000+08:00","text":"對，進行到什麼程度？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:12.591000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:15.493000+08:00","text":"我請高組長說明。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:15.493000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:19.554000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，除役計畫核安會已經審查完成……","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:20.835000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:23.896000+08:00","text":"核二、核三除役計畫都已經審查完成了？","quality":0.812},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:24.596000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:29.659000+08:00","text":"對，可是現在台電公司要依法提出環境影響評估的報告，除役……","quality":0.88},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:29.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:35.501000+08:00","text":"對嘛，所以還要再提出環境的評估報告。","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:37.341000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:54.767000+08:00","text":"最近又有一個很熱門的話題，就是經濟部也特別提到，核三可能在2028年可以重啟，也就是再運轉，好像讓大家看到核三跟核二又有一絲機會，所以核安會到底會先收到再運轉計畫還是除役計畫？","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:55.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:56.948000+08:00","text":"我現在被搞得很混亂。","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:56.948000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:12:58.555000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，台電公司都依法來申請，除役許可申請是在執照到期前三年就提出來。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:12:58.555000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:13:01.576000+08:00","text":"所以他們有送出除役計畫，已經完成，現在在做評估報告，對不對？","quality":0.885},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T09:13:01.576000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:13:09.180000+08:00","text":"除役的環評。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:13:09.180000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:13:16.784000+08:00","text":"環評報告。","quality":0.25},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:13:16.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:13:33.721000+08:00","text":"同樣地，他們也有機會，因為今年5月核管法已經修過了，還是可以申請再運轉，所以當經濟部釋放出核二、核三可能有機會再運轉的時候，可能也會再送出再運轉的計畫報告，沒錯吧？是。","quality":0.595},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:13:34.562000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:13:35.163000+08:00","text":"目前有收到嗎？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T09:13:35.843000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:13:36.664000+08:00","text":"目前還沒有。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:13:36.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:13:51.818000+08:00","text":"所以我說現在政策到底是怎麼樣，就你們主管單位來看，你們好像只能做審查，到底要再運轉或是真正除役，完全是掌握在經濟部的手上，我這樣的認知沒有錯吧？","quality":0.652},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T09:13:54.014000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:13:59.141000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，如果台電公司依法提出申請，核安會的職責就是依法審查。","quality":0.793},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:13:59.842000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:14:04.728000+08:00","text":"對，最後到底是要再運轉或者是要真正除役，是由上面的單位來做決定嗎？","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T09:14:07.324000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:14:17.371000+08:00","text":"如果提出再運轉的申請，核安會就審查，如果審查都可以符合法規跟安全的要求，依照法規，核安會就會核發……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:14:18.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:14:19.453000+08:00","text":"再運轉的部分。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T09:14:19.453000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:14:21.795000+08:00","text":"換發運轉執照。好。","quality":0.286},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:14:21.795000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:14:41.869000+08:00","text":"目前經濟部長說，照國外的經驗，如果要再運轉，審查的時程可能是一年半，有可能到五、六年之久，美國是18個月，你個人認為以目前來說，核安會應該要審多久，如果要再運轉，以核三來說的話，2028年有沒有機會再順利運轉？","quality":0.563},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:14:47.593000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:14:52.036000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，審查時程有很多因素會影響……","quality":0.529},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:14:52.837000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:14:59.781000+08:00","text":"沒關係，你不要跟我講那麼多，我只問一個，因為我們核三5月才除役，2028有沒有機會再運轉？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:15:02.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:15:16.202000+08:00","text":"如果台電審查報告很完整、能夠很快速回應我們的審查意見，我們現場視察也都沒有什麼問題……","quality":0.718},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:15:16.202000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:15:17.202000+08:00","text":"所以2028是有機會的嗎？","quality":0.125},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:15:16.442000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:15:21.167000+08:00","text":"也沒有重大的零件需要更換，那當然是有可能。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:15:21.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:15:36.574000+08:00","text":"對啊，因為你們過去就有安檢，5月才剛除役，以2028來說，照這樣的時程來看是有機會的，不過到底我們的核能政策要走到什麼程度，你們目前就只是負責做審查而已，對不對？對。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:15:38.595000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:15:41.436000+08:00","text":"說實在的，我覺得核安會的角色不應該只有這樣子。","quality":0.571},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:15:41.536000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:15:55.085000+08:00","text":"我們現在看一下SMR，目前來說，賴總統表態不排斥核能，而且核安會似乎已經開始啟動了，你們明年要提出4年中長期計畫、預算8億，要開始來布局SMR，沒錯吧？","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:15:57.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:15:58.366000+08:00","text":"這個數目還沒有很確定。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:15:58.446000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:16:01.867000+08:00","text":"但是你們編了8億，表示大家已經開始在做這樣的處理了。","quality":0.609},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:16:03.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:16:10.249000+08:00","text":"我們明年確定是1億，後年以後還有連續4年的申請，這個數目還……","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:16:11.289000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:16:28.555000+08:00","text":"所以你們開始啟動這個部分，我只是告訴主委，全世界都已經走在這個趨勢上了，你看COP 28有25個國家簽署2050年要實現核能增加三倍的宣言，還有很多國家跟進，而且要達到2050年淨零碳排的目標。","quality":0.654},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:16:29.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:16:44.602000+08:00","text":"所以你看看我所條列的，各國到目前為止都是在積極辦理SMR；而且根據原子能總署（IAEA）的統計，到2024年底，全球大概有20個國家投入SMR的開發。","quality":0.597},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:16:45.962000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:16:51.465000+08:00","text":"以目前來說，我們的腳步跟其他國家比起來是不是慢了一些？","quality":0.56},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:16:53.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:16:55.012000+08:00","text":"這方面我們當然會加快。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:16:55.993000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:17:08.571000+08:00","text":"對啊，你的速度已經很慢了，而且很多國家都是透過公私協力的方法做主導，所以未來我們有可能尋求美、日等國家的協助，大家共同來做這個開發、加速它的時程嗎？","quality":0.716},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:17:10.056000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:17:18.860000+08:00","text":"我們跟美國和日本聯絡非常密切，我們也派員到美國的國家實驗室參觀他們的研究成果。","quality":0.649},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:17:19.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:17:30.606000+08:00","text":"所以你應該知道美國制定新的一個框架，他會簡化申設的時程，而且日本選擇的是比較傳統的方法，所以未來我們將採取什麼樣的方式來做管制？","quality":0.633},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:17:31.027000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:17:36.450000+08:00","text":"我希望你們趕快做出這樣的一個研議，到底是美國的方式快一點還是日本的傳統方法？","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:17:36.910000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:17:44.235000+08:00","text":"而且我覺得最重要的是，目前為止，我們有規劃要派人到歐美去做一些學習，這點沒有錯吧？是的。","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:17:44.255000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:17:55.863000+08:00","text":"但是你要知道，我們核能的政策已經廢了這麼久的時間，所有的核工人才臺灣已經很困難了，連清大核工都已經改名，你們當初所唸的科系的名字都已經不知道換到哪裡去了！","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:17:58.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:13.955000+08:00","text":"而且台電還傳出要裁撤核發處，後來這整個工程雖然有做了一些內容的調整，但是核工的人才沒有辦法在臺灣存留，這是一個既定的事實，你認為我們的人才有辦法趕上未來全世界的核能趨勢嗎？","quality":0.58},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:14.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:16.916000+08:00","text":"你認為以目前的人才留置來說，有機會嗎？","quality":0.588},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:19.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:23.886000+08:00","text":"我覺得事在人為，我們努力的話當然會改善。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:24.767000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:28.530000+08:00","text":"我們核安會也規劃國家層級的原子能研究計畫。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:28.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:40.702000+08:00","text":"你們要加快速度，已經花費非常多次了，當初引以為傲的這一些，目前就是整個核能政策的錯誤，你現在要重新再建置另外一批人才，我只能說速度加快，因為這是未來的一個趨勢。","quality":0.712},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:41.983000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:48.366000+08:00","text":"還有，我還是要特別提到台電擺爛的中期暫時貯存設施，你們真的一點辦法都沒有嗎？","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:48.366000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:49.686000+08:00","text":"你們是它的核管機關耶！","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:50.186000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:57.469000+08:00","text":"你看從過去到現在，你們都說要持續要求台電研議中期暫時貯存設施，然後要提出具體的規劃內容給非核家園推動小組討論，有嗎？","quality":0.944},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:57.489000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:57.869000+08:00","text":"台電有提出來嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:57.869000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:58.329000+08:00","text":"有任何積極的作法嗎？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:18:58.329000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:18:58.950000+08:00","text":"你們甚至跟它打了行政訴訟，還被法院給否決。","quality":0.842},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:19:10.734000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:19:15.676000+08:00","text":"你們是一個監管的機構，結果現在連這一點權力都沒有，難怪台電根本不鳥你們嘛！","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:19:15.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:19:15.857000+08:00","text":"不是嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2025-12-11T09:19:15.857000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:19:16.597000+08:00","text":"跟委員報告，我們在今年的4月10號其實有行文給行政院非核小組，請他們積極的來……","quality":0.818},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩：積極，然後你能怎麼辦？你看本席簡報所示","start":"2025-12-11T09:19:32.805000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:19:37.008000+08:00","text":"行政訴訟、訴訟中、撤銷裁罰、撤銷裁罰。","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩：積極，然後你能怎麼辦？你看本席簡報所示","start":"2025-12-11T09:19:39.610000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:19:55.702000+08:00","text":"在法規上你們本來就掌握這樣子的權力，2017年應該通過、要求台電2025年2月要啟動這個貯存設施的計畫、2029年要完成核廢料的遷移。","quality":0.68},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩：積極，然後你能怎麼辦？你看本席簡報所示","start":"2025-12-11T09:19:56.323000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:11.695000+08:00","text":"這都是明文寫在那個地方，結果你們現在只能開罰，開罰結果還被撤銷，我請教核安會對於貯存場的設置或貯存場的遷移，你們現有的職權到底可以發揮什麼樣的功用？","quality":0.449},{"speaker":"陳組長文泉","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:11.695000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:18.589000+08:00","text":"我們其實有邀集經濟部來共同……","quality":0.077},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:18.589000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:22.594000+08:00","text":"所以只能書面糾正缺失，繼續要求改正，是這樣嗎？","quality":0.65},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:24.237000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:25.138000+08:00","text":"有任何的執行力嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:25.599000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:25.919000+08:00","text":"這樣有辦法嗎？","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:27.286000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:34.830000+08:00","text":"所以整個能源政策完全混淆不清，到底核安會先接收到的是再運轉的計畫還是除役的計畫？","quality":0.579},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:37.852000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:54.823000+08:00","text":"目前為止，你們兩個都接收，然後一切由上面來，本來國家的政策不管怎麼樣，我們都要有一個中期貯存場，你們有權責可以要求台電去做，台電不做，你們就開罰，開罰之後法院認證予以撤裁。","quality":0.584},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:55.524000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:57.508000+08:00","text":"我想請問核安會的功用到底在哪裏？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:57.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:20:58.450000+08:00","text":"你會不會覺得很無奈？","quality":1},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:20:59.171000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:04.181000+08:00","text":"主委，我真的替你感到很無奈，一群專家坐在這個地方，國家沒有要聽你們專業的建議，你不覺得很無奈嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:10.485000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:14.989000+08:00","text":"經濟部已設有核廢料的專責處理機構，負責這方面的……","quality":0.409},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:15.569000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:17.191000+08:00","text":"我知道，可是在職責及法規上面，要我唸給你聽嗎？","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:17.311000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:24.236000+08:00","text":"在法規上面，核安會有這樣的功能，只是他們不甩你們而已，不是嗎？","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:28.726000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:32.267000+08:00","text":"不甩最專業的單位，還告訴我們要另設一個，這到底在幹嘛？","quality":0.458},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:32.267000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:33.967000+08:00","text":"疊床架屋喔？","quality":0.2},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:33.967000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:34.888000+08:00","text":"政策到底要走到什麼地方去呢？","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:36.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:37.748000+08:00","text":"核安會是不是能有一個更積極的作為？","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:38.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:49.972000+08:00","text":"我還是強調，這不能怪你們，說實在，以你們目前能掌控的，不管是胡蘿蔔還是棍子，都沒有辦法奏效，所以我只能說，是不是很無奈？","quality":0.635},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:49.972000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:53.172000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0},{"speaker":"柯委員志恩","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:53.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:21:54.573000+08:00","text":"果然是很無奈，我也很無奈，謝謝！","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T09:21:57.518000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:22:02.264000+08:00","text":"謝謝柯志恩委員質詢，官員請回座。","quality":0.929},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T09:22:03.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T09:22:04.366000+08:00","text":"現在請謝龍介委員質詢。","quality":1}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}