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麻煩請主委好 我請陳主委主委好首先我覺得今天剛剛很多委員包括民進黨委員在內我非常"},{"start":37.932,"end":59.94,"text":"肯定大家終於能夠就事論事來討論核電是否延誼的問題我記得今年初那時候我們要通過核管法的時候當時只是希望讓核電廠有延誼的機會那至於說核電廠到底能不能延誼當然就必須經過大家的討論跟核安會對核安的確認"},{"start":61.414,"end":89.921,"text":"可是在修核安法的時候呢民進黨的立委通通亂罵一通像那個范雲他說核電重啟會有國安風險會造成經濟成本越來越高我也不知道他在講什麼一個張雅玲立委更扯他說核電廠如果研議就是要為中國攻台開方便之門這個已經抹紅抹到我不知道他在講什麼了如果按照這樣說法的話童子賢"},{"start":91.441,"end":106.057,"text":"總統府的這個顧問前兩天才獲中華民國核能學會頒發特殊奉獻獎就是因為他多次倡議核電對經濟發展以及台灣的重要性難不成童子賢也是在幫中共開後門"},{"start":107.441,"end":136.215,"text":"所以難得今天大家在討論這件事情的時候都能夠就事論事而不是只要講到核電就一堆口水讓大家實在是很難討論下去所以今天我還是要表達一下對於今天整個過程是感覺到非常欣慰民進黨的人忠於理性不會動不動就抹紅那以下就就幾件事情跟主委請教一下第一個有關於剛剛大家也有提到"},{"start":137.745,"end":160,"text":"很多人在講說核電廠到底要不要環評那這個問題應該是問環境部但環境部就推給核安會就說這個就叫核安會來政策環評那我先表達我的立場我覺得本來核安會就會做這個事情根本不需要環境部叫你們做這個事沒錯吧你本身就會針對這個"},{"start":163.76,"end":192.409,"text":"相關的 譬如說地質的問題啊 河岸的問題你會做評估嘛對 輻射輻射嘛 對不對所以我不太知道彭啟明在指導你們是要你們做什麼你知道他的意思嗎這是他意見嘛你知道他的意見是什麼嗎 他要你幹嘛他有跟我們溝通嘛他要你幹嘛嘛我們兩個單位之間一直有溝通啊不是啦 他叫你幹嘛嘛主委 我意見溝通內容是什麼嘛"},{"start":193.926,"end":200.576,"text":"問A答B好不好這個問題有那麼難回答嗎他要你幹什麼我知道他要你幹什麼他是希望指導你要你幹什麼"},{"start":202.023,"end":223.36,"text":"我們核安會對輻射對環境影響評估他要你做輻射對環境影響評估本來就是我們的核安會你本來沒有要做嗎本來就是這是我的對啊 那個給講喔這環境部長給講講這要幹嘛所以有要做環評嗎除了他講的叫你做要做一般的那個環評法裡面的環評沒有嘛"},{"start":224.801,"end":237.088,"text":"他好像不是這個意思不是這個意思嘛其他的環境議題因為為什麼會這樣問因為很多人都覺得說彭其民講這個話很奇怪啦然後也不要逢何必反啦"},{"start":238.448,"end":260.277,"text":"就像很多人也提到啊,像興達電廠研議,興達電廠這跟你無關啦興達電廠是火力發電廠,研議是說研就研啊沒有看到任何人出來講說要叫他去做環評啊,政策環評啊,我聽都沒聽過只有對核電要做政策環評,這就是故意讓人家難免會覺得在卡希望核電廠的研議時程延後啊"},{"start":261.465,"end":286.672,"text":"所以這個經由主委的嘴巴上證實他講有講沒講其實是沒有任何意義啦我們不要這種做無謂的這種發言我是說環境部啦導致大家又認為說你們是不是在卡那我就不懂為什麼卓院長宣誓說2028最快可以重啟研議我就不懂了院長說要研議然後部長一直讓人家感覺在卡"},{"start":287.489,"end":314.586,"text":"那我來問一下時程啦因為卓院長是已經定一個目標啦說最快2028但實際上我們都知道他的程序大概有幾個嘛第一個台電是說明年三月經濟部已經核定了台電的計畫了嘛明年三月會送到河岸會對吧那卓院長講說大概要經過一年到一年半的審查對吧所以這樣子就到了大概最快就到2027年可能三月"},{"start":315.595,"end":343.016,"text":"核安會就可以核定這個再運轉的計畫沒錯吧我說最快開始審查對不對 最快嘛因為明年三月就送了嘛卓院長說要花大概一年到一年半我們看上一頁他講的一年半到兩年啦所以最快的話就是2027年的大概九月份2027九月份就可以審查完畢最快啦這個是卓院長定的目標啦2027的九月嘛然後再來"},{"start":344.178,"end":371.383,"text":"在運轉計劃核定之後經營者應該要依計劃執行執行完然後提執行結果報告然後主管機關再根據申請的檢附的文件再預核定換發運轉執照使得莊田核子燃料那這個部分需要多久16條之二規定的這個部分需要多久審查的期限很難給個大概"},{"start":372.921,"end":392.783,"text":"就大概 因為誤差也可能滿多的不是啦 你這樣子講 那卓院長怎麼講得出2028這個數字那當然是理想狀況是這樣子理想狀況2028所以最快嘛那最理想狀況最理想狀況是2028應該是最快怎麼感覺好像卓院長比你還熟啊"},{"start":394.602,"end":411.003,"text":"怎麼卓院長都講得出一個目標然後你怎麼都講不出來主委你來這邊好像沒有很認真回答問題耶我剛剛已經幫你算了嘛你明年3月收到這個計畫卓院長說要花一年半到兩年所以最快就是2027年的9月"},{"start":412.935,"end":424.843,"text":"那2020年9月現在根據16條之二這個再運轉計畫核定之後它依計畫執行然後再提出執行結果報告然後換發運轉執照這個過程要多久我只問的問題這麼簡單大概多久"},{"start":429.628,"end":446.835,"text":"最快跟委員說明喔那除了再運轉計畫是明年3月台電公司會提出來那主要目的是要將電廠的設備恢復回來那另外還要根據16條16條是換照的一些安全我現在就在講16條16條這是16條之二還有一個16條16條就是台電公司"},{"start":453.758,"end":469.274,"text":"說明需要1.5年到2年時間會去完成那個老化評估這部分16條所以按照時程算出來就是2027年的6月或9月期間台電公司才會把16條的安全評估報告送到會裡面來審查"},{"start":470.987,"end":495.374,"text":"你再講一次 2027的幾月大概 如果照算的話2027的6月或2027的9月期間2027 6月或9月我們抓快一點了說2027 6月嘛那送來審查你們要審多久那就是按照國際的經驗就是如果文件完備然後現場設備也都OK那理想狀況應該是在2028年左右2028的什麼時候初 中 末"},{"start":498.169,"end":523.261,"text":"下半年比較有可能2028年下半年比較有可能2028年下半年比較有可能研議這是最理想的狀況你們也是這樣子建議卓榮泰院長嗎你沒建議他 那他自己碰到的中間的變數很多那他怎麼會講出2028這個數字嘛不是你們建議的所以我們行政院除了核安會之外還有另外一個有關核電研議審查的幕僚單位喔"},{"start":527.056,"end":528.729,"text":"這個"},{"start":533.35,"end":557.565,"text":"因為我們審查才知道哪些地方需要改善還有我們審查意見呢台電回復的速度等等不用一直歸打牆跳針我的意思是說卓院長講2028這件事情是你們跟他有分析過嗎還是你剛剛說卓院長說沒有嘛那他為什麼有這個數字"},{"start":561.185,"end":578.119,"text":"因為審查是在你們這邊嘛所以他這個數字是這是你們跟他講的不是你們沒有講所以他是從別人的那邊得到這個2028可能可以他自己根據經驗就對了"},{"start":581.053,"end":603.538,"text":"2028因為剛剛跟另外一位說的時間一樣嘛2028末嘛就是台電公司跟經濟部他們是參考國際的經驗來推所以是台電跟經濟部跟他講的推估時程好那再來既然連院長都已經宣誓要重啟了我提醒一件事情第一個"},{"start":605.69,"end":618.738,"text":"因為我們現在這個社會還有很多人對於核電有莫名的恐懼希望你們可以加強宣導我有去看你們的YouTube其實那個點閱率都很低還有影片是沒有點閱的這滿難想像的"},{"start":620.859,"end":641.978,"text":"那當然你們可能會講說宣傳預算有限啊什麼之類可是我覺得這不是藉口因為實際上你搭配社會上面熱門話題啊或是根據大家討論的事情去做出回應也可以達到宣傳作用我舉個例子來講像之前有一個民進黨的青岩才俊民進黨台北市的重要幹部他跑到蘭嶼的"},{"start":643.7,"end":671.151,"text":"低階核廢料的儲存場去放水放了一個晚上之後他覺得那個水很可怕被汙染然後就要求國民黨人去喝結果國民黨的人比較有核能知識就一飲而盡就那個人還嚇一跳講說怎麼可能原來可以喝就是連執政黨的青年才俊重點培養對象都對核能有那麼錯誤的認知代表核安會根本沒有在宣導那個我先問主委"},{"start":672.191,"end":700.288,"text":"請問一下把礦泉水放到蘭嶼的第一階核廢料儲存場放一個晚上那個水就不能喝了嗎就會嚴重的輻射污染嗎如果那個瓶子封閉得很好的話應該還好啦如果怎麼樣封閉密封得很好那你那到底封閉得好不好蘭嶼的那個第一階核廢料儲存場封閉得好不好目前來說我們是放心的你放心嘛可是民進黨不知道啊"},{"start":701.38,"end":723.45,"text":"民進黨不知道啊你有沒有覺得很誇張就連執政黨都不知道耶所以像這種這麼誇張的事情你們和安會出來解釋說社會大眾不要亂特別是執政黨好不好這種不要故意製造恐懼你的點閱率一定很高啦絕對很高啦但你們不做你們不做"},{"start":724.537,"end":751.347,"text":"所以我是提醒啦 既然我們現在已經朝向要延逸重啟的方向宣傳就很重要因為到時候類似民進黨青年才俊幹的這種事情應該會層出不窮啊希望你們利用這個機會多做宣導 好不好可以嗎不是謝謝我的意見啦 可不可以啦我是要求這樣子做啦因為到時候一定會遇到類似的那不然大家都每天要強迫別人喝水啊"},{"start":752.803,"end":770.568,"text":"這是我們一直在做的事情你就做不好啊你那時候有去跟那個民進黨的那個青年財軍說不給那個水沒問題你有做這事嗎我們會繼續努力我們繼續努力不要說空話啦這個要做啦要做啦不要講到執政黨你就不敢講了好不好謝謝謝謝韋恩好"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:40:52.919000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:40:54.240000+08:00","text":"主席好，麻煩請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T11:40:56.061000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:40:56.221000+08:00","text":"請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:01.885000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:41:02.005000+08:00","text":"主委好。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:02.065000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:41:02.065000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:03.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:41:12.913000+08:00","text":"首先，我覺得今天剛剛很多委員，包括民進黨委員在內，我非常肯定大家終於能夠就事論事來討論核電是否延役的問題。","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:12.913000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:41:30.940000+08:00","text":"我記得今年初，那時候我們要通過核管法的時候，當時只是希望讓核電廠有延役的機會，至於核電廠到底能不能延役，當然就必須經過大家的討論，跟核安會對核安的確認。","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:32.414000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:41:44.857000+08:00","text":"可是在修核安法的時候，民進黨的立委通通亂罵一通，像范雲說：核電重啟會有國安風險，會造成經濟成本越來越高。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:45.677000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:41:47.177000+08:00","text":"我也不知道他講什麼！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:47.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:41:56.300000+08:00","text":"張雅琳立委更扯，他說：核電廠如果延役，就是要為中國攻臺開方便之門。","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:56.300000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:41:58.200000+08:00","text":"這個抹紅已經抹到我不知道他在講什麼了！","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:41:58.880000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:42:17.057000+08:00","text":"如果按照這樣說法的話，總統府的顧問童子賢前兩天才獲中華民國核能學會頒發特殊奉獻獎，就是因為他多次倡議核電對經濟發展以及臺灣的重要性，難不成童子賢也是在幫中共開後門？","quality":0.962},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:42:18.441000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:42:41.312000+08:00","text":"所以難得今天大家在討論這件事情的時候都能夠就事論事，而不是只要講到核電就一堆口水，讓大家實在是很難討論下去，所以今天我還是要表達一下，對於今天整個過程感覺到非常欣慰，民進黨的人終於理性了，不會動不動就抹紅。","quality":0.979},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:42:41.952000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:42:51.027000+08:00","text":"以下就幾件事情跟主委請教，第一個，剛剛大家也有提到，很多人在講核電廠到底要不要環評？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:42:52.207000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:00.653000+08:00","text":"這個問題應該是問環境部，但環境部就推給核安會，說這個就叫核安會政策環評。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:01.073000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:08.918000+08:00","text":"我先表達我的立場，我覺得本來核安會就會做這個事情，根本不需要環境部叫你們做這個事，沒錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:08.918000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:10.159000+08:00","text":"對，本身就是核安會……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:10.159000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:18.841000+08:00","text":"你本身就會針對相關的比如說地質的問題、核安的問題，你會做評估嘛？","quality":0.897},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:19.622000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:19.622000+08:00","text":"對，輻射安全方面……","quality":0.429},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:20.942000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:24.603000+08:00","text":"所以我不太知道彭啓明在指導你們是要你們做什麼？","quality":0.955},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:24.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:28.564000+08:00","text":"你知道他的意思嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:28.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:29.224000+08:00","text":"這是他的意見嘛！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:30.205000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:31.305000+08:00","text":"你知道他的意見是什麼嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:31.305000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:31.725000+08:00","text":"他要你幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:33.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:35.106000+08:00","text":"他有跟我們溝通嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:35.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:35.927000+08:00","text":"他要你幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:36.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:39.067000+08:00","text":"我們兩個單位之間一直有溝通。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:39.588000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:40.908000+08:00","text":"不是啦，他叫你幹嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:41.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:43.389000+08:00","text":"主委，一直有溝通，但內容是什麼？","quality":0.692},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:44.926000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:46.228000+08:00","text":"不要問A答B好不好？","quality":0.778},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:46.308000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:47.330000+08:00","text":"這個問題有那麼難回答嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:47.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:48.411000+08:00","text":"他要你幹什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:48.411000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:48.692000+08:00","text":"我知道……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:49.213000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:50.234000+08:00","text":"他要你幹什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:50.234000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:51.576000+08:00","text":"他是希望指導你，要你幹什麼？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:53.023000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:56.566000+08:00","text":"我們核安會輻射對環境影響評估。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:43:56.946000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:43:58.567000+08:00","text":"他要你做輻射對環境影響評估？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:01.109000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:02.290000+08:00","text":"你本來沒有要做嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:02.290000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:03.051000+08:00","text":"對，本來就是我們核安會的……","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:03.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:05.633000+08:00","text":"那不就多講的，環境部長多講的，講這個要幹嘛？","quality":0.632},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:06.454000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:08.055000+08:00","text":"所以有要做環評嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:08.055000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:13.979000+08:00","text":"除了他講的，有叫你要做一般環評法裡面的環評嗎？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:13.979000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:14.340000+08:00","text":"沒有嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:15.801000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:17.341000+08:00","text":"他好像不是這個意思。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:17.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:19.263000+08:00","text":"不是這個意思嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:19.603000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:21.064000+08:00","text":"其他的環境議題……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:21.704000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:22.024000+08:00","text":"為什麼我會這樣問？","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:22.024000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:24.946000+08:00","text":"因為很多人都覺得說彭啓明講這話很奇怪啦！","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:26.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:27.848000+08:00","text":"也不要逢核必反，好不好？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:30.108000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:51.057000+08:00","text":"很多人也提到，像興達電廠延役，這跟你無關，興達電廠是火力發電廠，延役是說延就延，沒有看到任何人出來講要叫他去做政策環評，我聽都沒聽過，只有對核電要做政策環評，這就是故意，讓人家難免會覺得在卡，希望核電廠的延役時程延後。","quality":0.918},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:52.465000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:44:58.147000+08:00","text":"所以這個經由主委的嘴巴證實，他有講或沒講其實是沒有任何意義啦！","quality":0.966},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:44:58.747000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:03.928000+08:00","text":"我們不要做這種無謂的發言，我是說環境部啦！","quality":0.947},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:04.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:13.571000+08:00","text":"導致大家又認為你們是不是在卡，那我就不懂為什麼卓院長宣示說最快2028可以重啟延役，我就不懂啦！","quality":0.902},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:14.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:17.652000+08:00","text":"院長說要延役，然後部長一直讓人家感覺在卡。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:18.709000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:33.859000+08:00","text":"我來問一下時程，因為卓院長是已經訂一個目標說最快2028，但實際上我們知道它的程序大概有幾個，第一個，台電是說明年3月，經濟部已經核定台電的計畫了嘛，明年3月會送到核安會對吧？是，對。","quality":0.896},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:36.240000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:40.083000+08:00","text":"卓院長講大概要經過一年到一年半的審查對吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:41.464000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:50.758000+08:00","text":"所以這樣子大概最快就到2027年，可能3月核安會就可以核定再運轉的計畫，沒錯吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:51.479000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:51.799000+08:00","text":"我說最快。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:52.560000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:52.960000+08:00","text":"開始審查。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:53.400000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:45:53.781000+08:00","text":"對不對？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:45:53.781000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:10.374000+08:00","text":"最快嘛，因為明年3月就送了，卓院長說要花大概一年到一年半，看看他講的，我記得是一年半到兩年啦，所以最快的話就是2027年9月份就可以審查完畢，最快啦！","quality":0.919},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:10.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:13.456000+08:00","text":"這個卓院長訂的目標，2027的9月。","quality":0.909},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:13.996000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:35.002000+08:00","text":"再來，再運轉計畫核定之後，經營者應該要依計畫執行，執行完提執行結果報告，主管機關根據申請檢附的文件再予以核定，換發運轉執照始得裝填核子燃料，這個部分需要多久？","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:37.462000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:39.022000+08:00","text":"第十六條之二規定的部分需要多久？","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:39.722000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:44.342000+08:00","text":"審查的期限很難給一個……大概。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:45.102000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:46.804000+08:00","text":"因為誤差也可能滿多的……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:47.525000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:50.728000+08:00","text":"不是啦，你這樣子講，那卓院長怎麼講得出2028這個數字？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:51.830000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:53.111000+08:00","text":"當然理想狀況是這樣子。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:53.391000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:53.672000+08:00","text":"理想狀況2028？理想。","quality":0.667},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:53.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:55.654000+08:00","text":"所以最快嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:56.955000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:58.337000+08:00","text":"那是最理想狀況。","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:46:58.337000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:46:58.757000+08:00","text":"最理想狀況是2028？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:00.759000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:47:00.759000+08:00","text":"應該是。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:01.440000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:47:03.763000+08:00","text":"怎麼感覺好像卓院長比你還熟啊？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:05.602000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:47:12.451000+08:00","text":"怎麼卓院長都講得出一個目標，然後你怎麼都講不出來，主委，你來這邊好像沒有很認真回答問題耶！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:12.451000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:47:13.652000+08:00","text":"不是，因為這個……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:13.652000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:47:35.002000+08:00","text":"我剛剛已經幫你算了嘛，你明年3月收到這個計畫，卓院長說要花一年半到兩年，所以最快就是2027年的9月，而2027年9月，現在根據第十六條之二再運轉計畫核定之後，他依計畫執行，再提出執行結果報告，然後換發運轉執照，這個過程要多久？","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:35.423000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:47:40.788000+08:00","text":"我問的問題這麼簡單，大概多久？最快。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:41.608000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:47:55.534000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，除了再運轉計畫是明年3月台電公司會提出來，主要目的是要將電廠的設備恢復回來，另外，還要根據第十六條，第十六條是換照的一些安全技術……","quality":0.859},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:55.654000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:47:56.314000+08:00","text":"我現在就在講第十六條。","quality":0.7},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T11:47:56.314000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:09.963000+08:00","text":"這是第十六條之二，還有一個第十六條，第十六條就是台電公司說明需要1.5年到2年時間去完成老化評估這部分。","quality":0.783},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:12.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:20.254000+08:00","text":"所以按照時程算起來，就是2027年的6月或9月期間，台電公司才會把第十六條的安全評估報告送到會裡面來審查。","quality":0.886},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:21.987000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:23.407000+08:00","text":"你再講一次，2027的幾月？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:23.828000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:29.089000+08:00","text":"大概，如果照算的話，2027的6月或2027的9月期間。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:29.089000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:31.950000+08:00","text":"2027的6月或9月，我們抓快一點，就2027年6月嘛！","quality":0.786},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:32.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:33.650000+08:00","text":"送來審查，你們要審多久？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:34.250000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:42.173000+08:00","text":"按照國際的經驗，如果文件完備，然後現場設備也都OK，理想狀況應該是在2028年左右……","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:42.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:43.253000+08:00","text":"2028年的什麼時候？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:45.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:46.354000+08:00","text":"初、中、末？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:49.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:50.069000+08:00","text":"下半年比較有可能。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:51.010000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:52.731000+08:00","text":"2028下半年比較有可能延役？對，2028年……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:56.312000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:57.733000+08:00","text":"這是最理想狀況？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:58.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:48:58.393000+08:00","text":"理想狀況。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:48:58.393000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:01.475000+08:00","text":"你們也是這樣子建議卓榮泰院長嗎？沒有……","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:01.475000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:02.855000+08:00","text":"你沒建議他，那他自己夢到的嗎？","quality":0.846},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:03.176000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:03.936000+08:00","text":"因為中間變數很多……","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:05.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:08.838000+08:00","text":"不是，那他怎麼會講出2028這個數字嘛，不是你們建議的？","quality":0.905},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:09.118000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:14.201000+08:00","text":"所以我們行政院除了核安會之外，還有另外一個有關核電延役審查的幕僚單位嗎？","quality":0.912},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:24.350000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:35.617000+08:00","text":"因為有審查才知道哪些地方需要改善，還有我們審查意見、台電回復的速度等等，都會影響……","quality":0.838},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:36.597000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:39.859000+08:00","text":"不是啦，不用一直鬼打牆跳針啦！","quality":0.615},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:39.859000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:45.463000+08:00","text":"我的意思是，卓院長講2028這件事情，是你們有幫他分析過嗎？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:45.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:47.404000+08:00","text":"還是……剛剛主委說沒有嘛！","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:47.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:48.545000+08:00","text":"那他為什麼有這個數字？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:48.545000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:52.185000+08:00","text":"我想這是……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:52.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:53.726000+08:00","text":"因為審查是在你們這邊嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:55.648000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:56.989000+08:00","text":"所以他的數字是……","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:56.989000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:49:58.590000+08:00","text":"這是理想狀況。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:49:58.590000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:50:01.573000+08:00","text":"這是你們跟他講的？不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:50:01.573000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:50:03.174000+08:00","text":"我們沒有……","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:50:03.174000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:50:09.099000+08:00","text":"你們沒有講，所以他是從別人那邊得到2028年可能可以……他自己根據經驗就對了，2028年？","quality":0.938},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:50:12.053000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:50:16.694000+08:00","text":"因為剛剛跟另外一位說的時間一樣嘛，2028末嘛？","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T11:50:18.495000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:50:22.175000+08:00","text":"台電公司跟經濟部是參考國際的經驗來推估。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:50:22.375000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:50:23.956000+08:00","text":"所以是台電跟經濟部跟他講的？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T11:50:24.376000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:50:25.596000+08:00","text":"推估時程。好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:50:26.636000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:50:43.914000+08:00","text":"再來，既然連院長都已經宣示要重啟，我提醒幾件事情，第一個，因為我們現在這個社會還有很多人對於核電有莫名的恐懼，希望你們可以加強宣導。","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:50:43.914000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:51:05.671000+08:00","text":"我有去看你們的YouTube，其實那個點閱率都很低啦，還有影片是沒有被點閱的，這滿難想像的，當然你們可能會講說宣傳預算有限之類的，可是我覺得這不是藉口，因為實際上你搭配社會上的熱門話題，或是根據大家討論的事情去做出回應，也可以達到宣傳作用。","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:51:05.811000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:51:31.266000+08:00","text":"我舉個例子來講，像之前有一個民進黨的青年才俊，民進黨臺北市的重要幹部，他跑到蘭嶼低階核廢料的貯存場去放水，放了一個晚上之後，他覺得那個水很可怕被污染，然後就要求國民黨的人去喝，結果國民黨的人比較有核能知識，就一飲而盡，結果那個人還嚇一跳，想說怎麼可能，原來可以喝喔！","quality":0.934},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:51:32.247000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:51:41.310000+08:00","text":"就是連執政黨的青年才俊、重點培養對象，都對核能有那麼錯誤的認知，代表核安會根本沒有在宣導。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:51:41.510000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:51:51.256000+08:00","text":"我先問主委，請問一下把礦泉水放到蘭嶼低階核廢料貯存場，放一個晚上那個水就不能喝了嗎？","quality":0.949},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:51:51.256000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:51:52.797000+08:00","text":"就會嚴重的輻射污染嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:51:52.797000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:51:56.599000+08:00","text":"如果那個瓶子封閉得很好的話，應該還好啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:51:57.299000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:51:58.620000+08:00","text":"如果怎麼樣？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:51:58.620000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:51:59.561000+08:00","text":"封閉、密封得很好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:51:59.881000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:01.702000+08:00","text":"那到底封閉得好不好？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:01.902000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:04.544000+08:00","text":"蘭嶼的低階核廢料貯存場封閉得好不好？","quality":0.882},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:05.104000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:08.306000+08:00","text":"目前來看，我們是放心的。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:08.706000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:09.146000+08:00","text":"你放心嘛？是。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:10.227000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:16.162000+08:00","text":"可是民進黨不知道啊，你有沒有覺得很誇張？","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:16.482000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:28.827000+08:00","text":"這連執政黨都不知道耶，所以像這種這麼誇張事情，你們核安會可以出來解釋說：社會大眾不要亂，特別是執政黨，不要故意製造這種恐懼。","quality":0.893},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:28.827000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:31.288000+08:00","text":"這樣你的點閱率一定很高，絕對很高啦！","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:32.609000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:34.430000+08:00","text":"但你們不做、你們不做。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:35.537000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:50.943000+08:00","text":"所以我是提醒，既然我們現在已經朝向要延役重啟的方向，宣傳就很重要，因為到時候類似民進黨的青年才俊幹的這種事情，應該會層出不窮，希望你們利用這個機會多做宣導，好不好？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:52.823000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:54.224000+08:00","text":"可以嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:54.224000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:55.224000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員的意見。","quality":0},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:54.224000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:52:55.504000+08:00","text":"不是謝謝我的意見，是可不可以？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:52:56.945000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:02.147000+08:00","text":"我是要求這樣子做，因為到時候一定會遇到類似的狀況，不然大家每天都要強迫別人喝水耶。","quality":0.895},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:03.803000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:04.763000+08:00","text":"這是我們一直在做的事情。","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:05.564000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:07.504000+08:00","text":"你就是做不好啊！","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:07.624000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:12.145000+08:00","text":"你那時候有去跟那個民進黨的青年才俊說：那個水沒問題。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:12.145000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:12.806000+08:00","text":"你有做這個事嗎？","quality":0.857},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:12.806000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:14.426000+08:00","text":"我們會繼續努力！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:14.826000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:17.647000+08:00","text":"不要說空話啦，這個要做啦、要做啦！","quality":1},{"speaker":"葉委員元之","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:17.807000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:21.448000+08:00","text":"不要講到執政黨你就不敢講了，好不好？謝謝。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:21.448000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:21.448000+08:00","text":"謝謝委員。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:21.948000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:26.519429+08:00","text":"好，謝謝葉元之委員、謝謝陳主委，請回座。","quality":0.062},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:26.819429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:41.676571+08:00","text":"其實要澄清是一個好方向，核安會要中立就對了，把一些疑慮去除掉是非常重要的，尤其是我們的年輕人需要這樣的重要資訊。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T11:53:41.976571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T11:53:44.262286+08:00","text":"請羅廷瑋委員質詢。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}