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謝謝 有請主委有請陳主委"},{"start":16.361,"end":39.129,"text":"好 陳柱瑋好瑋瑜好我想賴總統其實在很多場合裡面都有提到他不反對核電那麼也認為說接下來我們可能要發展的是先進核能技術或是新式的核能技術請問賴總統隨便你所講的不管是新興核能 先進核能或是新式核能技術到底是指什麼"},{"start":44.749,"end":69.626,"text":"小型模组化核电厂是其中之一SMR还有核融核也是另外一个项目现在还有一些MMR微型反应器所以我们现在台湾主要的目标是想要推动什么SMR吗"},{"start":70.697,"end":96.49,"text":"目前我們對於未來是重點會在SMR的研究其實在研究本身要提醒的就是說因為我今天看到你們報告還在那裡講說SMR未來可能幾年都還不可能會有商轉但事實上我不知道主委知不知道其實中國大陸他們大概明年就會有一個小的這個SMR的廠預計會完工商轉"},{"start":98.15,"end":116.997,"text":"2026年那其他国家包含像英国等等最近的新闻也都说他们就开始在建厂在准备往这边做预估也是两三年就可能会完成会进行商转毕竟SM2的它的整个的"},{"start":117.997,"end":136.109,"text":"建制还有它的运作开始运作等等的这些条件比要建这个大型核电厂要相对来说可能容易一些所以就目前核安会这边有没有预估假设我们有厂商愿意要做的话最快几年之内就可以做到"},{"start":139.848,"end":168.616,"text":"報告委員像中國發展的是高溫氣能堆它製造的核廢料是13倍現在的所以這個應該不在我們選擇考量的範圍內那依照目前西方世界SMR的進程應該是4年到5年2030年左右才有真正商品化的產品出來它第一個要安全也要考慮第二個它要模組化所以應該是4到5年2030年左右才會有真實"},{"start":168.996,"end":196.49,"text":"那不管是四到五年或是我讲说可能更快也许明年最快明年可能或者是二三年重要的是说我们现在我们的这个核安会对于SM2的这个基础的定调还有就是说我们相关的法规准备好了吗我们现在的法规有提供足够的法律基础可以让一般的私人厂私人一般的企业自己去兴建SM2吗"},{"start":198.226,"end":215.694,"text":"我們的定業法現在是規定是核電廠業有供應但由主管特許之下可以有例外這是我們現在定業法裡面的所以你的意思是說定業法完全不需要修正只要主管機關特許就可以了嗎"},{"start":218.33,"end":245.218,"text":"跟委員說明那電液法第五條裡面是有寫到如果是私人要提出設置核電廠的話要由那個主管機關就是經濟部這部分要來同意其實不管那核安會的話就是如果要申請就是新的核能SMR這部分的核電廠的話那如果是清水式的"},{"start":246.748,"end":271.274,"text":"核設施那目前的核管法是可以因應適用的但是就剛才提到因為新型的話可能目前還在發展當中所以我們還會持續去關注整個發展的狀態跟法規的動態好 本席想要講的未來推動這SM2可能非常有就是會由台電以外的其他一些公司來進行建置甚至來維運"},{"start":274.255,"end":290.513,"text":"那么所以在法规上面来说以我们现在电业法来讲基本上都是指的是大型的核电厂所以是以供应为原为准嘛那你如果说你说例外还要经过电业管制机关经过核安会还是经过经济部应该可能不是经过核安会而是经过经济部"},{"start":291.434,"end":316.559,"text":"核准设置对这应该不是属于核安会那这个部分会不会也会产生问题而且我们不管在环境评估环境评估相关法规等等是不是应该要赶快要做法治上面的准备甚至你核安会都要提案我不知道主委知不知道我有提电验法的修正案我知道对针对小型的SMR嘛"},{"start":317.973,"end":347.282,"text":"就30萬以下的核能發電業者那麼未來他基本上可能只要經過申請許可經過核安會那邊同意就可以了這樣才能夠鬆綁嘛現在我們就大家希望說未來如果說新建小型的這個核發電廠可以由一般的企業自己他們有能力籌資可以去做這樣就不會一直把負擔都是放在台電的身上這樣方式會不會更好"},{"start":349.262,"end":366.319,"text":"跟委員說明電業法第五條是應該是規範要設置核電廠的經營者核安會的角度就是說如果已經經過經濟部同意之後向核安會申請建廠執照後續的運轉維護管理這部分那就是由核安會"},{"start":367.068,"end":383.11,"text":"那另外環稟這部分就回到那個環境主管機關去是 本期今天其實是要提醒你們的就是說因為看起來現在賴總統的這個方向就是要去推動新興的核能也許就是SMR然後你們自己現在核安會裡面"},{"start":385.412,"end":401.808,"text":"今年提的夏年度的研究计划里面也是编了一亿的计划要去做相关的研究虽然说本市认为说这一亿计划的经费好像过高也就是一些paperwork的一些整理然后你们也没有说实际上要设置一个实验型的小型的SMR"},{"start":402.669,"end":429.008,"text":"的这个炉或什么之类的那为什么要这么多的钱这当然是等到审预算的时候再来说可是呢本席希望说河安会也许在法治作业上面可以加紧速度不要永远都是法律跟在技术的后面如果说我们已经预见到未来台湾可能会朝这方面去做的话不管是韩安的管制的相关法规或是环平等等都要启动嘛不能够说"},{"start":430.256,"end":446.837,"text":"等到事情发生了人家都要见了然后才发现没有法律可以用所以可以请河岸会这里也可以做一个相关的这个研究计划吗就是一个委托研究计划类似把小型SM2所需要的法规评估都做"},{"start":448.732,"end":477.337,"text":"做一些研究或是說你們自己內部也可以做也不見得非得一定要提供一些委託研究計畫我們在明年會規劃外界的委託案學校方面好我希望就除了說是委託研究計畫案之外呢另外你們自己內部也要盡速的把這個不管是大型小型的這個核電廠的所需要的這個法規基礎都能夠先整理出來要stand by隨時要用的時候就可以上手"},{"start":478.197,"end":484.142,"text":"好 但就是今天我想主要就是提醒主委到这个议题好 谢谢谢谢委员"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:06:16.433000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:06:16.793000+08:00","text":"謝謝，有請主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T12:06:16.953000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:06:17.313000+08:00","text":"有請陳主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T12:06:25.361000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:06:25.361000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0.333},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:06:25.721000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:06:26.001000+08:00","text":"陳主委好。","quality":0.5},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:06:28.762000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:06:48.129000+08:00","text":"賴總統其實在很多場合裡面都有提到，他不反對核電，也認為接下來我們可能要發展的是先進核能技術或是新式核能技術，請問賴總統這邊所講的，不管是新興核能、先進核能或是新式核能技術，到底是指什麼？","quality":0.977},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T12:06:53.749000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:07:09.620000+08:00","text":"第一，小型模組化核電廠（SMR）是其中之一，還有核融合也是另外一個項目，現在還有一些微型反應器（MMR）也有在討論。","quality":0.52},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:07:14.463000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:07:17.545000+08:00","text":"現在臺灣主要的目標是想要推動什麼？","quality":0.688},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:07:18.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:07:18.506000+08:00","text":"SMR嗎？","quality":0.75},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T12:07:20.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:07:25.100000+08:00","text":"我們未來的重點會在SMR的研究，在國原院……","quality":0.737},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:07:26.941000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:07:27.361000+08:00","text":"只是在研究？","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:07:28.421000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:08:16.083000+08:00","text":"本席要提醒的是，我今天看到你們報告還在講SMR未來幾年都還不可能商轉，但事實上，我不知道主委知不知道，其實中國大陸大概明（2026）年就會有一個小的SMR廠預計完工商轉，其他國家，包含英國等等，最近的新聞也都說他們開始在建廠，準備往這方向在做，預估也是2、3年就可能會完成並進行商轉，畢竟SMR的整個建置及運作等等這些條件比建大型核電廠相對來說可能容易一些。","quality":0.799},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:08:16.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:08:25.089000+08:00","text":"所以，就目前核安會有沒有預估，假設我們有廠商願意要做的話，最快幾年之內就可以做到？","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2025-12-11T12:08:28.848000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:08:40.291000+08:00","text":"報告委員，像中國發展的是高溫氣冷堆，現在它製造的核廢料是13倍，所以這個應該不在我們選擇考量的範圍內。","quality":0.933},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2025-12-11T12:08:40.571000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:08:53.795000+08:00","text":"依照目前西方世界SMR的進程，應該是4年到5年，2030年左右才有真正商品化的產品出來，第一個安全也要考慮；第二個，它要模組化。","quality":1},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2025-12-11T12:08:54.135000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:08:57.356000+08:00","text":"所以應該是4到5年，2030年左右才會正式……好。","quality":0.8},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:08:58.156000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:09:03.919000+08:00","text":"不管是4到5年或是我講的可能更快，也許最快明年或者可能是2、3年。","quality":0.808},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:09:04.319000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:09:13.244000+08:00","text":"重要的是現在你們核安會對於SMR基礎的定調，還有相關的法規準備好了嗎？","quality":0.545},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:09:14.604000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:09:25.430000+08:00","text":"我們現在的法規有提供足夠的法律基礎，可以讓一般私人廠、私人企業自己去興建SMR嗎？","quality":0.711},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T12:09:27.226000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:09:39.231000+08:00","text":"我們電業法現在規定核電廠原則上以公營為限，但由主管機關特許之下，可以有例外，這是我們現在電業法裡的規定。","quality":0.708},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:09:39.792000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:09:44.694000+08:00","text":"所以，你的意思是電業法完全不需要修正，只要主管機關特許就可以了嗎？","quality":0.967},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T12:09:47.330000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:10:01.474000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，電業法第五條裡有規定，如果私人要設置核電廠的話，要由主管機關就是經濟部來同意……","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:10:02.094000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:10:02.594000+08:00","text":"其實不管……","quality":1},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T12:10:03.735000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:10:29.352000+08:00","text":"至於核安會，如果要申請新核能SMR這部分的核電廠，它是屬輕水式的核設施，目前的核管法是可以因應適用的，但是就剛才提到，因為新型的可能目前還在發展當中，所以我們還會持續關注整個發展的狀態跟法規的動態。好。","quality":0.946},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:10:30.732000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:10:50.904000+08:00","text":"本席很想講，未來推動這SMR非常有可能會由台電以外的其他一些公司來進行建置，甚至做維運，在法規上，以現在電業法來講，基本上都是指大型的核電廠，所以是以公營為準嘛！","quality":0.757},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:10:51.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:11:01.594000+08:00","text":"你說有例外，還要經過電業主管機關，經過核安會、經濟部……可能不是經過核安會，而是經過經濟部核准設置，對不對？對。","quality":0.426},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:11:03.535000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:11:04.095000+08:00","text":"這應該不是屬於核安會。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:11:05.215000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:11:06.255000+08:00","text":"這個部分會不會也會產生問題？","quality":0.385},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:11:06.775000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:11:15.257000+08:00","text":"而且我們不管在環境評估的相關法規等等，是不是應該要趕快做法制上面的準備？","quality":0.647},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:11:16.437000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:11:21.498000+08:00","text":"甚至你們核安會都要提案，我不知道主委知不知道我有提電業法的修正案？","quality":0.871},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T12:11:22.798000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:11:23.138000+08:00","text":"我知道。","quality":1},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:11:24.219000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:11:37.696000+08:00","text":"針對小型的SMR，就30萬瓩以下的核能發電業者，未來他基本上可能只要申請許可並經過核安會同意就可以了，這樣才能夠鬆綁。","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:11:37.956000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:11:56.262000+08:00","text":"現在大家希望未來如果新建小型的核能發電廠，可以由一般企業自己有能力籌資去做，這樣就不會一直把負擔都放在台電身上，這樣的方式會不會更好？","quality":0.952},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T12:11:58.262000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:12:15.319000+08:00","text":"跟委員說明，電業法第五條應該是規範要設置核電廠的經營者，而核安會的角度是，如果已經經過經濟部同意之後，向核安會申請建廠執照，後續的運轉維護管理這部分是由核安會主責。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"高組長斌","start":"2025-12-11T12:12:16.228000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:12:20.975000+08:00","text":"另外，環評這部分就回到環境主管機關。是。","quality":0.941},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:12:21.315000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:12:54.471000+08:00","text":"本席今天其實要提醒你們的，就是因為看起來現在賴總統的方向是要去推動新興的核能，也許就是SMR，然後現在核安會裡，在今年所提下年度的研究計畫裡也是編了1億的計畫經費要去做相關的研究，雖然本席認為這1億計畫的經費好像過高，也就是一些paperwork的整理，你們也沒有實際上要設置一個實驗型的小型SMR的爐或什麼之類的設施，為什麼要這麼多的錢？","quality":0.73},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:12:55.172000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:12:56.733000+08:00","text":"這當然是等到審預算的時候再來說。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:12:57.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:13:16.627000+08:00","text":"可是本席希望核安會也許在法制作業上面可以加緊速度，不要永遠都是法律跟在技術的後面，如果我們已經預見到未來臺灣可能會朝這方面去做的話，不管是核安管制的相關法規或是環評等等，都要啟動嘛！","quality":0.709},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:13:17.628000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:13:28.328000+08:00","text":"不能說等到事情發生了，人家都要建了，才發現沒有法律可以用，所以可以請核安會做相關的研究計畫嗎？","quality":0.674},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:13:29.169000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:13:43.973000+08:00","text":"就是一個委託研究計畫，類似把小型SMR所需要的法規評估都做一些研究，或是你們自己內部也可以做，也不見得非得一定委外辦理研究。","quality":0.81},{"speaker":"高院長梓木","start":"2025-12-11T12:13:44.473000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:13:49.034000+08:00","text":"報告委員，關於這方面的法律研究，我們在明年會規劃外界的委託案，在學校方面……好。","quality":0.559},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:13:49.194000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:06.317000+08:00","text":"我希望除了委託研究計畫案之外，另外你們自己內部也要儘速地把不管是大型、小型的核電廠所需要的法規基礎，都能夠先整理出來，要stand by，隨時要用的時候就可以上手。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"翁委員曉玲","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:08.198000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:10.320000+08:00","text":"今天我主要就是要提醒主委這個議題，謝謝。","quality":0.611},{"speaker":"陳主任委員明真","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:11.661000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:12.982000+08:00","text":"好，謝謝委員。","quality":0.4},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:13.482000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:17.482000+08:00","text":"謝謝翁曉玲委員質詢，官員請回座。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:17.782000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:24.067714+08:00","text":"現在請鍾佳濱委員質詢，鍾佳濱委員、鍾佳濱委員不在。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:24.367714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:28.653429+08:00","text":"今天登記質詢的委員均已發言完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:28.953429+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:34.382000+08:00","text":"另有林沛祥、鍾佳濱、徐欣瑩委員提出書面質詢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:34.682000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:39.824857+08:00","text":"關於今天會議作如下決定：報告及質詢完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:40.124857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:46.410571+08:00","text":"委員所提書面質詢或相關資料，列入紀錄並刊登公報。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-11T12:14:46.710571+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-11T12:14:57.282000+08:00","text":"對於委員質詢要求提供相關資料或未及答復部分，請核安會相關所屬機關速以書面答復。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}