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請陳主席長董事長還有農業部次長三位好 時間的關係不一一問候首先先請教一下內政部次長"},{"start":28.157,"end":44.568,"text":"因為我們在今年三度通過警察人員人事條例給退休的警校提高所得替代率考試院全序部在我的要求之下他們也完成了整個電腦系統重新的更正然後呢在前幾天已經把新的更正函"},{"start":46.585,"end":66.157,"text":"發給退休的警囂那這個新的審定函它所代表的意義就是一個行政處分它使得退休的警囂取得公法上面的金錢給付警求權那這個審定函對於目前所短掃的差額也很清楚的把它列出來譬如說警政二階每個月短掃了5,326元"},{"start":68.658,"end":90.387,"text":"而在全序部所發出去的函裡面寫得非常的清楚說這個差額要由服務機關依規定發起我今天在設法法制委員會的時候請教了全序部全序部說這裡所講的由服務機關依規定發起現在這個主管機關就是內政部請問內政部打算什麼時候給"},{"start":92.041,"end":119.125,"text":"報告委員那內政部的立場跟行政院一樣我們現在正在提釋憲所以行政院如何指示所以只要提釋憲就造成了公法上面金錢起伏請求權的中斷嗎這個是行政院的法律見解嗎我們現在依行政院的指示來辦理所以你的意思是說內政部現在申報有幾次依行政院的指示辦理就對了我們的立場跟行政院一致OK你們可以立場跟行政院一致啊到底要講清楚啊"},{"start":120.339,"end":148.211,"text":"因為這不是只有一般公民會看有很多法律系的學生也會看我們的行政院現在創了獨步全球的法學理論只要行政院說違憲行政院申請釋憲就構成了馬上可以暫停給付的法律事由這樣子的法律見解行政法院會不會接受那我們就等著看因為我今天已經在社會法治委員會宣布了我接下來"},{"start":150.59,"end":175.291,"text":"會義務的幫這些警消提起團體訴訟剩下的事情我們到行政法院再說就好了接下來來請教一下主計長行政院一直提出一個非常怪異的法律理論他說立法院通過的法律案如果涉及到經費的增加的時候沒有行政院的同意就是違憲的"},{"start":176.974,"end":201.483,"text":"那這個獨步全球的法律間接啊我之前也請教了賴清德所提名上一位司法院的院長蔡秋明蔡秋明講得非常的清楚啊法律案法律案包括了像老龍津貼包括了像禁法補償涉及修正法律案因此造成經費的增加這個跟憲法"},{"start":203.373,"end":221.691,"text":"立法院禁止增加預算這是兩件本質完全不同的事情老龍津貼的部分根本就沒有違憲那這樣子的法律看法這樣子的法律見解顯然連賴清德所提名的司法院院長都不認同行政院現在的看法"},{"start":222.412,"end":237.325,"text":"那行政院還要繼續的固執下去可能行政院覺得說那五位綠色司法獨夫都我們控制的我們叫他們怎麼做 他們就怎麼做誰敢這麼囂張但這件事情沒有這麼簡單為什麼這件事情沒有這麼簡單因為 此時此刻現在八樓 衛環委員會正在審老龍津貼"},{"start":246.816,"end":275.219,"text":"暫行條例要進一步的提升老農津貼給付的數額請問一下行政院主席總署認不認為目前由民主進步黨這些立委所提出來的老農津貼暫行條例要提高給付金額這件事情是違憲的所以這個部分就是按照預算法91條還有財政紀律法裡面的規定是所提的法"},{"start":276.129,"end":302.575,"text":"奇怪你們主張的是違憲啊怎麼我現在聽到的不是憲法的條文是預算法跟財政紀律法違法跟違憲是兩個不同的層次吧所以我就請教你嘛現在由民進黨的立委所提出來的老農津貼暫行條例要提高給我們退休老農給付的金額民進黨那些立委所提出來的法案是不是違憲的是還是不是"},{"start":303.929,"end":325.529,"text":"這個部分要先看他有沒有跟行政院先溝通所以呢 民進黨要提這個案子以前有跟行政院溝通嗎所以啊 你們現在啊 理論就更奇特了問過行政院 行政院點頭不違憲如果呢 行政院不點頭就違憲"},{"start":327.694,"end":336.72,"text":"我國的憲法理論已經進入了一個奇幻的世界一切是行政權說了算來 農業部的是不是有來來 我先請教一下農業部部長不好意思 您是次長嘛"},{"start":348.53,"end":373.866,"text":"老農津貼啊經過好幾屆的立委慢慢把它調高嘛照顧退休老農的生活我們大家都支持啦但是道理要講清楚啊當初老農津貼在2005年從4000元調升到5000元是誰提案的知不知道自己的業務不熟"},{"start":376.772,"end":399.579,"text":"2005年的時候4000元調到5000元的時候提案的啊是民主進步黨立法院黨團提案人包括了柯建民跟賴清德現在大家就完全看不懂啦當初賴清德自己當立法委員的時候提高老農津貼給付的數額是立法委員提案喔沒有違憲"},{"start":401.035,"end":413.869,"text":"那但是呢等到他自己掌控了行政權了以後立委只要提高透過修正法律提高給特定的族群給付的金額就違憲"},{"start":415.911,"end":437.015,"text":"這種無步全球的理論啊讓人家完全沒有辦法理解沒有關係主席說時間到了但是道理要說清楚謝謝黃委員這個主席長要講清楚啦不是說跟行政院報告就可以是要跟行政院講說這個財源到底在哪裡"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:40:53+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:40:54+08:00","text":"謝謝主席。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:40:53.189000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:41:00.814000+08:00","text":"麻煩有請行政院主計總處主計長、內政部政務次長以及農業部政務次長。","quality":0.533},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T11:41:00.814000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:41:02.715000+08:00","text":"好，請陳主計長、董次長，還有農業部次長。","quality":0.875},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-12-24T11:41:02.715000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:41:03.715000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:41:02.715000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:41:02.855000+08:00","text":"三位好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:41:02.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:41:02.975000+08:00","text":"時間的關係，不一一問候。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:41:03.095000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:09.181000+08:00","text":"首先先請教一下內政部次長，因為我們在今年三讀通過警察人員人事條例，給退休的警消提高所得替代率，考試院銓敘部在我的要求之下，他們也完成了整個電腦系統重新更正，然後在前幾天已經把新的更正函發給退休警消，這個新的審定函所代表的意義就是一個行政處分，它使得退休警消取得公法上的金錢給付請求權，這個審定函對於目前所短少的差額也很清楚地把它列出來，譬如說警正二階每個月短少了5,326元，而在銓敘部所發出去的函裡面寫得非常的清楚，這個差額要由服務機關依規定發給。","quality":0.928},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:09.901000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:23.387000+08:00","text":"我今天在司法及法制委員會的時候請教了銓敘部，銓敘部說這裡所講的由服務機關依規定發給，現在這個主管機關就是內政部，請問內政部打算什麼時候給？","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:25.041000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:31.887000+08:00","text":"報告委員，內政部的立場跟行政院一樣，我們現在正在提釋憲，所以行政院如何指示……","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:32.047000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:37.672000+08:00","text":"所以只要提釋憲就造成了公法上面金錢給付請求權的中斷嗎？","quality":0.923},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:37.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:39.674000+08:00","text":"這個是行政院的法律見解嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:39.674000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:41.375000+08:00","text":"我們現在依行政院的指示辦理。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:41.916000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:46.400000+08:00","text":"所以你的意思是說內政部現在身不由己，是依行政院的指示辦理就對了？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"董次長建宏","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:46.640000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:48.421000+08:00","text":"我們的立場跟行政院一致。OK！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:49.122000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:42:51.924000+08:00","text":"你們可以立場跟行政院一致，道理要講清楚。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:42:53.339000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:43:30.215000+08:00","text":"因為這不是只有一般公民會看，有很多法律系的學生也會看，我們的行政院現在創了獨步全球的法學理論，只要行政院說違憲、行政院聲請釋憲，就構成了馬上可以暫停給付的法律事由，這樣子的法律見解，行政法院會不會接受，我們就等著看，因為我今天已經在司法及法制委員會宣布了，我接下來會義務地幫這些警消提起團體訴訟，剩下的事情我們到行政法院再說就好了。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:43:31.076000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:43:35.820000+08:00","text":"接下來請教一下主計長。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-12-24T11:43:35.820000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:43:36.820000+08:00","text":"是，委員好。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:43:35.820000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:44:24.902000+08:00","text":"行政院一直提出一個非常怪異的法律理論，他說立法院通過的法律案，如果涉及到經費增加的時候，沒有行政院的同意就是違憲的，這個獨步全球的法律見解，我之前也請教了賴清德所提名上一位司法院院長蔡秋明，蔡秋明講得非常的清楚，法律案包括老農津貼、禁伐補償，修正法律案，因此造成經費的增加，這個跟憲法規定立法院禁止增加預算，這是兩件本質完全不同的事情，老農津貼的部分根本就沒有違憲。","quality":0.959},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:44:25.282000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:44:46.161000+08:00","text":"這樣子的法律看法、這樣子的法律見解，顯然連賴清德所提名的司法院院長都不認同行政院現在的看法，行政院還要繼續的固執下去，可能行政院覺得那五位綠色司法獨夫都我們控制的，我們叫他們怎麼做，他們就怎麼做，所以敢這麼囂張！","quality":0.98},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:44:46.161000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:44:48.703000+08:00","text":"但這件事情沒有這麼簡單，為什麼這件事情沒有這麼簡單？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:44:48.703000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:05+08:00","text":"因為此時此刻，現在8樓衛環委員會正在審老農津貼暫行條例，要進一步提升老農津貼給付的數額。","quality":0.975},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:05+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:19.212000+08:00","text":"請問一下行政院主計總處，認不認為目前由民主進步黨這些立委所提出來的老農津貼暫行條例要提高給付金額這件事情是違憲的？","quality":0.964},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:22.274000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:27.138000+08:00","text":"這個部分就是按照預算法第九十一條，還有財政紀律法裡面的規定……是。","quality":0.862},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:27.598000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:28.199000+08:00","text":"所提的法律案如果有增加……","quality":0.364},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:29.129000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:30.729000+08:00","text":"奇怪，你們主張的是違憲啊！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:30.909000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:34.930000+08:00","text":"怎麼我現在聽到的不是憲法的條文，是預算法跟財政紀律法？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:34.930000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:36.271000+08:00","text":"是，這裡面……","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:36.271000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:38.311000+08:00","text":"違法跟違憲是兩個不同的層次吧？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:38.311000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:39.311000+08:00","text":"要先徵詢行政院的意見，然後要指明彌補的財源。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:39.211000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:40.812000+08:00","text":"所以我就請教你嘛！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:41.832000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:54.015000+08:00","text":"現在由民進黨立委所提出來的老農津貼暫行條例，要提高給我們退休老農給付的金額，民進黨那些立委所提出來的法案是不是違憲的？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:54.995000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:55.555000+08:00","text":"是，還是不是？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-12-24T11:45:56.929000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:45:59.692000+08:00","text":"不是，這個部分要先看有沒有跟行政院先溝通，然後籌措相關財源。","quality":0.63},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:46:00.813000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:46:08.179000+08:00","text":"所以民進黨要提這個案子以前有跟行政院溝通嗎？","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳主計長淑姿","start":"2025-12-24T11:46:08.179000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:46:09.179000+08:00","text":"這個部分要請農業部來說明。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:46:08.179000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:46:16.126000+08:00","text":"所以啊，你們現在理論就更奇特了，問過行政院，行政院點頭，不違憲！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:46:16.126000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:46:18.529000+08:00","text":"如果行政院不點頭就違憲！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:46:20.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:46:26.938000+08:00","text":"我國的憲法理論已經進入了一個奇幻的世界，一切是行政權說了算！","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:46:27.018000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:46:27.658000+08:00","text":"來，農業部是不是有來？","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T11:46:27.658000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:46:28.658000+08:00","text":"請農業部次長。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:46:27.658000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:01.743000+08:00","text":"我先請教一下農業部次長，老農津貼經過好幾屆立委慢慢把它調高，照顧退休老農的生活，我們大家都支持，但是道理要講清楚，當初老農津貼在2005年從4,000元調升到5,000元是誰提案的？","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:03.784000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:04.044000+08:00","text":"知不知道？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃次長昭欽","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:04.044000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:06.165000+08:00","text":"不清楚。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:06.165000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:06.846000+08:00","text":"自己的業務不熟？","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:09.772000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:31.178000+08:00","text":"2005年從4,000元調到5,000元的時候，提案的是民主進步黨立法院黨團，提案人包括柯建銘跟賴清德，現在大家就完全看不懂，當初賴清德自己當立法委員的時候，提高老農津貼給付的數額，是立法委員提案喔！","quality":0.951},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:32.419000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:32.579000+08:00","text":"沒有違憲。","quality":1},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:34.175000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:46.869000+08:00","text":"但是等到他自己掌控了行政權以後，立委只要透過修正法律提高給特定族群給付的金額就違憲！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:46.869000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:48.911000+08:00","text":"黃委員，時間到了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:48.911000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:54.177000+08:00","text":"這個獨步全球的理論讓人家完全沒有辦法理解。","quality":0.9},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:54.177000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:55.177000+08:00","text":"請最後說明，時間已經到了。","quality":0},{"speaker":"黃委員國昌","start":"2025-12-24T11:47:54.197000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:47:59.803000+08:00","text":"沒有關係，主席說時間到了，但是道理要說清楚！","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T11:48:02.346000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:48:03.748000+08:00","text":"謝謝黃委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T11:48:03.748000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T11:48:10.015000+08:00","text":"主計長要講清楚，不是跟行政院報告就可以，是要跟行政院說這個財源到底在哪裡才行啦！","quality":0.892},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T11:48:10.515000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:48:17.657857+08:00","text":"而且我記得民進黨委員提案裡面沒有說要提高金額到多少。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T11:48:17.957857+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T11:48:21.957857+08:00","text":"接下來下一位我們請鄭天財委員。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}