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12:07:35","會議時間":"2025-12-24T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第4會期財政委員會第14次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處陳主計長淑姿、財政部莊部長翠雲、金融監督管理委員會彭主任委員金隆、國家發展委員會副主任委員、內政部次長、外交部次長、國防部副部長、教育部次長、法務部次長、經濟部次長、交通部次長、勞動部次長、農業部次長、衛生福利部次長、運動部次長、環境部次長、文化部次長、數位發展部次長、僑務委員會副委員長、國家科學及技術委員會副主任委員、海洋委員會副主任委員、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會副主任委員、人事行政總處副人事長、國立故宮博物院副院長、原住民族委員會副主任委員、客家委員會副主任委員、中央選舉委員會副主任委員、核能安全委員會副主任委員、公平交易委員會副主任委員、國家通訊傳播委員會副主任委員、大陸委員會副主任委員、公共工程委員會副主任委員就「115年度中央政府總預算案至今尚未審查，近3,000億元之新興、新增計畫將無法推動，對國家整體發展之影響」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":2.5115937500000003,"end":4.334093750000001,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":5.127218750000001,"end":7.16909375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":16.46721875,"end":17.04096875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":17.41221875,"end":25.27596875,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":25.54596875,"end":31.148468750000003,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":31.35096875,"end":34.64159375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":34.72596875,"end":43.78784375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":43.95659375,"end":48.07409375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":48.377843750000004,"end":53.440343750000004,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":53.67659375,"end":57.37221875,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":57.81096875,"end":63.78471875,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":64.22346875000001,"end":64.81409375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":65.03346875,"end":73.90971875000001,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":73.96034375,"end":78.61784375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":78.75284375000001,"end":82.02659375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":83.61284375000001,"end":88.33784375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":86.05971875,"end":86.68409375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":88.94534375,"end":94.73346875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":91.45971875000001,"end":92.01659375000001,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":94.32846875,"end":94.76721875000001,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":94.76721875000001,"end":94.96971875000001,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":94.96971875000001,"end":94.98659375000001,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":95.37471875,"end":110.07284375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":110.69721875,"end":113.80221875000001,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":114.25784375,"end":122.88096875000001,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":123.13409375,"end":124.06221875000001,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":124.46721875,"end":125.49659375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":126.05346875000001,"end":157.20471875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":157.50846875000002,"end":188.27159375000002,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":188.44034375,"end":189.57096875000002,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":189.95909375000002,"end":191.66346875000002,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":191.81534375,"end":202.76721875,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":203.57721875000001,"end":205.85534375,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":205.85534375,"end":211.39034375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","speaker_name":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":205.87221875,"end":206.24346875,"speaker_score":0.914},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":211.86284375000002,"end":215.94659375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":216.14909375000002,"end":246.49034375000002,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":247.09784375,"end":263.41596875,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷","start":263.63534375,"end":266.16659375,"speaker_score":0.862},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","speaker_name":"陳委員冠廷",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我們直接來去因為我們有先做研修所以我們先跟你說明一下這些精密設計交期是18到24個月"},{"start":216.311,"end":245.382,"text":"所以说如果18到24个月今年预算卡关的话明年没办法下单那我们等设备就是2028年那我为什么一直要强调这个量子计算因为我们现在所得到的这些半导体的红利那是过去十几年前二十年前三十几年前一代一代的人把它累积起来量子计算也是我们如果要在未来还能够持续稳定的在算力也好在高科技产业领先的话那我们现在就必须投资未来今天就必须投资明天的东西"},{"start":246.142,"end":263.215,"text":"現在我們跟這些日本也好美國也好的國會議員都有談到他們都非常重視在量子人才的設備人才的投資所以我們已經看到未來了如果我們現在沒有做相應的準備的話這個影響是非常大的所以"},{"start":263.695,"end":292.951,"text":"我在這邊也是要呼籲我們這個在野黨的同仁那這些東西跟我們主要的爭點可能不見得有直接相關我知道在野黨的這一些同仁們可能重視的是對國防上面看法不同等等的但是我們現在講的是我們有共同的一個議題就是在我們的高科技產業大家都重視台灣的半導體產業大家都重視我們下世代的產業那如果都重視這個東西的話至少在科技上面"},{"start":293.671,"end":309.985,"text":"國科會上面也好甚至還有剛才我們其實今天沒有辦法談及的這些太空產業也好今天不做明天就會後悔那如果過去這一個十大建設的時候有一些比較年長的這些我們立法院的同仁有經歷過的話那就知道說"},{"start":310.926,"end":324.957,"text":"現在的十大建設也是為了明年十年二十年所以還是在這邊誠摯的來跟我們的立院的同仁來去希望能夠盡快的把這些重要的對台灣科技重要的盡快進入審議謝謝謝謝委謝謝陳委員接下來我們請蔡易宇委員蔡易宇委員蔡易"}],"gazette":[{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:02:04.424000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:02:05.164000+08:00","text":"請國科會副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T12:02:07.185000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:02:08.005000+08:00","text":"請國科會副主委。","quality":1},{"speaker":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":"2025-12-24T12:02:17.531000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:02:17.651000+08:00","text":"委員好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:02:18.491000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:02:18.791000+08:00","text":"副主委好。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:02:19.672000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:02:54.188000+08:00","text":"副主委，在進入質詢前我還是想跟大家強調，我們115年度的總預算到現在還沒有開始審議，根據預算法規定，新興計畫的預算是要審議通過才能夠動支，這會讓我們一些計畫沒辦法如期推動，這3,000億裡面的新興計畫，我個人特別重視AI的算力中心，還有次世代科技、量子科技，還有電力建設，這些都是攸關我們國家競爭力的關鍵投資；也就是說，今天如果不做，明天會後悔，今年不做，明年、後年可能也追不上。","quality":0.958},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:02:54.808000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:01.593000+08:00","text":"所以我今天要請教各個部會，如果這些計畫被卡住，對國家發展的影響各自有多大？","quality":0.971},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:02.694000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:05.336000+08:00","text":"以及你們未來的備案是什麼？","quality":0.833},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:05.336000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:22.733000+08:00","text":"首先，副主委，這3,000億新興計畫裡面，AI算力中心是重中之重，特別它是我們現在的強項，我想請教目前這種高階GPU，像NVIDIA的GB200，全球交期大概是要多久？","quality":0.913},{"speaker":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:24.829000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:27.692000+08:00","text":"這個部分要看所有訂單狀況。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:27.692000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:28.692000+08:00","text":"看狀況。","quality":0},{"speaker":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:27.932000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:33.196000+08:00","text":"當然目前因為是賣方市場，所以都要稍微等一段時間。沒錯。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:33.196000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:36.499000+08:00","text":"但我們都會預先預訂。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:36.499000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:40.743000+08:00","text":"沒錯，大概就是要預先，因為我們知道可能要等一段時間。","quality":0.826},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:40.903000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:03:50.811000+08:00","text":"我們自己做一些簡單的情報搜尋，GPU全球供貨吃緊，如果是這種等級的交期大概是要一年左右！","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:03:52.850000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:04:04.825000+08:00","text":"所以如果我們明年的預算沒有辦法通過、沒有辦法下訂，等預算通過後再訂，交貨又要再等一年，這樣算起來我們的算力建設大概會落後多久？","quality":0.621},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:04:05.526000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:04:06.287000+08:00","text":"一年半，還是兩年？","quality":0.714},{"speaker":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":"2025-12-24T12:04:07.488000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:04:37.597000+08:00","text":"算力建設主要是逐步提升，所以這確實會對整個算力提升造成影響，其實在AI新十大建設裡面影響到國科會預算主要有三大部分：第一個部分是剛剛委員所提到的算力；第二個部分大概是矽光子的發展；第三個部分就是智慧機器人的發展，尤其是智慧機器人的發展是AI在落地應用上受到影響最大的部分，所以我們也期待儘快能夠通過預算，讓這部分能夠執行。","quality":0.961},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:04:38.618000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:04:41.481000+08:00","text":"所以等於是一環扣著一環。是。","quality":0.917},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:04:41.481000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:05:00.837000+08:00","text":"當我們沒有辦法得到這種最先進的重要零組件、原料，我們就把它假設成是原料，就沒有辦法製成我們想要的物品、貨品或者是服務，現在如果阻斷了這個東西，等於是一連串我們國家的進步，特別是在這種運算上面就會落後！","quality":0.978},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:05:00.977000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:05:10.285000+08:00","text":"我們講的是現在的科技，接下來我們講的是未來、次世代，我們可能未來要面對的挑戰，也是我們未來可以努力的展望──量子的計算。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:05:12.506000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:05:23.555000+08:00","text":"在115年量子科技計畫，我看到裡面有包含興建實驗大樓，還有採購一些關鍵設備，譬如稀釋冷凍機這種核心設備，全球交期大概多久？","quality":0.925},{"speaker":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":"2025-12-24T12:05:24.855000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:05:26.316000+08:00","text":"這個部分我們可能要查詢一下再跟委員報告。","quality":0.789},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:05:26.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:05:33.600000+08:00","text":"沒關係，我就直接說明，因為我們有先做研修，所以先跟你說明一下。","quality":0.889},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:05:34.160000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:05:46.414000+08:00","text":"這些精密設備交期是18到24個月，如果是18到24個月，而今年預算卡關的話，明年沒辦法下單，我們等設備就是2028年，我為什麼一直要強調量子計算？","quality":0.673},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:05:46.875000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:06:06.362000+08:00","text":"因為我們現在所得到的這些半導體紅利是過去十幾年前、二十年前、三十幾年前，一代一代的人把它累積起來的，量子計算也是，我們如果要在未來還能夠持續穩定的在算力也好、在高科技產業領先的話，我們現在就必須投資未來，今天就必須投資明天的東西。","quality":0.698},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:06:07.142000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:06:23.474000+08:00","text":"現在我們跟日本、美國國會議員都有談到，他們都非常重視在量子人才計算的設備、人才的投資，所以我們已經看到未來了，如果我們現在沒有做相應的準備的話，這個影響是非常大的。","quality":0.973},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:06:24.695000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:07:01.197000+08:00","text":"我在這邊也是要呼籲在野黨的同仁，這些東西跟我們主要的爭點可能不見得有直接相關，我知道在野黨的同仁們可能重視的是對國防上面看法不同等等，但是我們現在講的是我們有共同的一個議題，就是高科技產業，大家都重視臺灣的半導體產業，大家都重視下世代的產業，如果都重視這個東西的話，至少在科技上面，國科會也好，甚至還有我們今天沒有辦法談及的太空產業也好，今天不做，明天就會後悔。","quality":1},{"speaker":"陳委員冠廷","start":"2025-12-24T12:07:02.178000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:07:24.836000+08:00","text":"在過去十大建設的時候，有一些比較年長的立法院同仁有經歷過的話，就會知道現在的十大建設也是為了明年、十年、二十年，所以還是在這邊誠摯的跟我們立院同仁說明，希望能夠儘快的把這些對臺灣科技重要的部分進入審議，謝謝。","quality":0.927},{"speaker":"蘇副主任委員振綱","start":"2025-12-24T12:07:24.836000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:07:24.836000+08:00","text":"是，謝謝委員。","quality":0.6},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T12:07:24.856000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:07:24.896000+08:00","text":"謝謝陳委員。","quality":1},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T12:07:24.896000+08:00","guessed":false,"end":"2025-12-24T12:07:25.937000+08:00","text":"接下來請蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員、蔡易餘委員不在場。","quality":0.636},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T12:07:26.437000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T12:07:28.722714+08:00","text":"一、報告及詢答完畢。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T12:07:29.022714+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T12:07:40.737000+08:00","text":"二、委員質詢未及答復或請補充資料，請相關部會於一週內以書面答復，委員另要求期限者，從其所定。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T12:07:41.037000+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T12:07:51.894143+08:00","text":"三、委員陳玉珍、林楚茵、吳思瑤所提書面質詢均列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請相關部會以書面答復。","quality":0},{"speaker":"主席","start":"2025-12-24T12:07:52.194143+08:00","guessed":true,"end":"2025-12-24T12:08:05.051286+08:00","text":"四、本次會議議程已進行完畢，倘有不在場委員補提書面質詢，一併列入紀錄，刊登公報，並請議事人員協助處理。","quality":0}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}